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DVsoxfan
11-20-2008, 06:03 PM
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/11/sox-to-sign-19.html

Well I'm really excited

...
11-20-2008, 06:06 PM
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/11/sox-to-sign-19.html

Well I'm really excited

I'm excited as well.

Here come the know-it-alls...

JUribe1989
11-20-2008, 06:07 PM
YES! YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!

Let him challenge Fields and Betemit for the starting 3B position right out of Spring Training, right?

GoGoCrede
11-20-2008, 06:08 PM
:bandance: I love the offseason. I'm excited to see what he'll be able to do. I hope Alexei and Jose take him under their wings. I think they will.

getonbckthr
11-20-2008, 06:08 PM
I'm dancing.:bandance:

...
11-20-2008, 06:08 PM
YES! YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!

Let him challenge Fields and Betemit for the starting 3B position right out of Spring Training, right?

He's NOT ML ready. He's only 19!!!

Rdy2PlayBall
11-20-2008, 06:08 PM
Sweet! We might not have to see Fields! Don't get me wrong, Fields is cool, but if we don't see him, that means we got someone even better! :D:

SoxNation05
11-20-2008, 06:09 PM
yes!

jcw218
11-20-2008, 06:12 PM
If true, great news.

JermaineDye05
11-20-2008, 06:14 PM
I'll believe it when Impacto Deportivo reports it.....

If true, I'm ecstatic. It's not being reported on the site or on the score yet so I'll wait for confirmation until I get overly excited.

oeo
11-20-2008, 06:14 PM
The South Side is becoming Little Havana.

WhiteSox5187
11-20-2008, 06:15 PM
YES! YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!

Let him challenge Fields and Betemit for the starting 3B position right out of Spring Training, right?
I'd let him try, but I still think he's going to need some work in the minors.

gn2727
11-20-2008, 06:24 PM
Finally something to look forward to!!!!!!! So all we need now is a nice CF!!!

35th and Shields
11-20-2008, 06:26 PM
I'd let him try, but I still think he's going to need some work in the minors.

Probably, but you could say the same about all of our current third basemen.

rustysurf83
11-20-2008, 06:27 PM
I'd let him try, but I still think he's going to need some work in the minors.

I think Fields and Betemit might needs some work in the minors:D:.


In all seriousness, I agree if for no other purpose than to get in shape. From what I've heard his fitness has slipped a bit.

oeo
11-20-2008, 06:28 PM
Finally something to look forward to!!!!!!! So all we need now is a nice CF!!!

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. While I disagree with the people that know nothing about him say he will for sure need time in the minors, not everyone is going to be an Alexei. Let's wait and see before we anoint him our starting third baseman.

And damn, stop throwing Fields to the side.

soxwon
11-20-2008, 06:29 PM
Ok Da rev has his new NICKNAME, all the sports people will catch on.
Since Alexi is the Cuban Misile
Vicieno is the Cuban MUSCLE!!!!
pass it on.

gr8mexico
11-20-2008, 06:30 PM
Our minor league system just got a boost

sox1970
11-20-2008, 06:32 PM
Ok Da rev has his new NICKNAME, all the sports people will catch on.
Since Alexi is the Cuban Misile
Vicieno is the Cuban MUSCLE!!!!
pass it on.

:upsidehead:

guillensdisciple
11-20-2008, 06:33 PM
Liking that the White Sox have invested in Cuban talent, my family in Cuba were talking about this guy and saying that he would be amazing so I expect, after a year or two, to see some quality contributions out of this kid.

JermaineDye05
11-20-2008, 06:33 PM
Am I the only one here who is hesitant to believe this since there isn't an official press release yet? I remember Joe Cowley last year saying the Sox and Torii Hunter had pretty much agreed and then the Angels swooped in.

WhiteSox5187
11-20-2008, 06:34 PM
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. While I disagree with the people that know nothing about him say he will for sure need time in the minors, not everyone is going to be an Alexei. Let's wait and see before we anoint him our starting third baseman.

And damn, stop throwing Fields to the side.
I agree with the first part, also Alexei is 26 and had seen major league pitching before (in the WBC). There aren't a whole lot of 19 year olds who can hit major league pitching.

IF he is major league ready though, that means we need to find a leadoff guy at either second or center.

Daver
11-20-2008, 06:35 PM
And damn, stop throwing Fields to the side.

Where would he rather he be thrown?

oeo
11-20-2008, 06:35 PM
Am I the only one here who is hesitant to believe this since there isn't an official press release yet? I remember Joe Cowley last year saying the Sox and Torii Hunter had pretty much agreed and then the Angels swooped in.

Phil Rogers isn't exactly trustworthy, but he's better than Cowley. That guy hears a whisper and puts a story out about it.

Sockinchisox
11-20-2008, 06:35 PM
:bandance: :bandance: :bandance: :bandance:

JermaineDye05
11-20-2008, 06:36 PM
Where would he rather he be thrown?

to the Giants for Tim Lincecum

oeo
11-20-2008, 06:36 PM
Where would he rather he be thrown?

Haha, you defend Joe Borchard and say he was "rushed", but think Fields is a sack of crap.

Daver
11-20-2008, 06:37 PM
Haha, you defend Joe Borchard and say he was "rushed", but think Fields is a sack of crap.

Where did I say that?

oeo
11-20-2008, 06:38 PM
Where did I say that?

What the hell were you implying then, Daver? Or are you ever really implying anything?

Typical once sentence statement that goes nowhere. Called out on it, and you have no idea.

ChiSox89
11-20-2008, 06:41 PM
i hope this is true. if so this would b the first big offseason move, for me at least. losing swisher wasn't that bad for me. it just free up $ for this move

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 06:42 PM
He's NOT ML ready. He's only 19!!!

Ah, yes. What a foolish stance to take. How about you give me any reason to believe he is major league ready.

rustysurf83
11-20-2008, 06:43 PM
Ah, yes. What a foolish stance to take. How about you give me any reason to believe he is major league ready.

This sounds a lot like the Alexei argument last year....I'm not exactly disagreeing, but let's all admit we won't know **** for a couple months and everything else is speculation.

Demps2
11-20-2008, 06:45 PM
this is just pure speculation-will we now move Fields for pitching help or a leadoff hitter????

soxwon
11-20-2008, 06:46 PM
Cuban Muscle-Awesome.

Domeshot17
11-20-2008, 06:46 PM
I know this guy has a ton of power potential, but the 1 thing I have not found is how his defense is. I remember the name from the Linares comparisons years ago, but I would really be interested to know how his glove is. I know he has a machine gun for an arm, just not sure how his hands and range are.

rustysurf83
11-20-2008, 06:47 PM
this is just pure speculation-will we now move Fields for pitching help or a leadoff hitter????

Don't think KW will pin his hopes, at least for this year, on a 19 year old. Fields will be here this year....again pure speculation

Trav
11-20-2008, 06:47 PM
The Cuban thing: Will lightening strike twice? Or does KW have a connection?

The defensive thing: Can he play D? He is an 3B/ RF according to Phil Rogers. Does that just mean he has power?

Oh yeah, did I read it right? $11 mil for 1 year?

oeo
11-20-2008, 06:48 PM
I know this guy has a ton of power potential, but the 1 thing I have not found is how his defense is. I remember the name from the Linares comparisons years ago, but I would really be interested to know how his glove is. I know he has a machine gun for an arm, just not sure how his hands and range are.

There have been conflicting reports, but not a whole lot of them, so it's hard to gauge. Somebody said his defense has taken a turn for the worse, while his agent and Alexei have both said that he's very good.

Daver
11-20-2008, 06:49 PM
What the hell were you implying then, Daver? Or are you ever really implying anything?

Typical once sentence statement that goes nowhere. Called out on it, and you have no idea.

You didn't answer my question.

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 06:49 PM
There have been conflicting reports, but not a whole lot of them, so it's hard to gauge. Somebody said his defense has taken a turn for the worse, while his agent and Alexei have both said that he's very good.
Sadly the two sources who've said he plays good defense aren't very trustworthy on the subject.

chisox77
11-20-2008, 06:50 PM
Cuban Missile Crisis?

No, Cuban Missile Invasion!

Go White Sox!!!


:cool:

oeo
11-20-2008, 06:51 PM
Sadly the two sources who've said he plays good defense aren't very trustworthy on the subject.

Well, obviously you can't trust the agent. Alexei could be entirely different.

It's not like whoever said his defense has gone bad can be trusted, either. That's one opinion from someone that has maybe seen him a few times, and I don't even remember who it was from.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say good hands, but poor range due to his size.

DumpJerry
11-20-2008, 06:51 PM
Sadly the two sources who've said he plays good defense aren't very trustworthy on the subject.
Why don't you trust Alexei? What has he done to you to erode your trust in him? I realize he promised five grand slams last year, but I forgave him....

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 06:52 PM
Well, obviously you can't trust the agent. Alexei could be entirely different.

It's not like whoever said his defense has gone bad can be trusted, either. That's one opinion from someone that has maybe seen him a few times, and I don't even remember who it was from.
I believe it was a Rangers broadcaster who said Viciedo is no longer among the better 3B in the league. Could be wrong though. Not enough time to look it up.

Sockinchisox
11-20-2008, 06:52 PM
So if Alexei is the Cuban Missle, is Dayan the Cuban Nuke?

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 06:52 PM
Why don't you trust Alexei? What has he done to you to erode your trust in him? I realize he promised five grand slams last year, but I forgave him....
He isn't exactly the most objective source.

DumpJerry
11-20-2008, 06:53 PM
He isn't exactly the most objective source.
Why? Because he played with him? He married the guy's sister?

kittle42
11-20-2008, 06:53 PM
Hey, even if KW goes 1 for 2 on these Cuban players, none of us is going to complain. Now *this* is a signing with nothing to lose! [unlike that Scott Podsednik thread]

voodoochile
11-20-2008, 06:53 PM
I'm not expecting this kid to be the starter this year, but I wasn't expecting Alexei last year.

Glad they got a good young talent to play 3B or RF. If all he needs is a season of minor league ball they could afford to trade Fields and let Betamit be the 3B for the season. Based on his age and where he played, I am sure he and Alexei have played the left side of the infield together before, anything that improves communication/trust is a good thing. Wonder is Alexei will be upset about his contract. Hope not...

BadBobbyJenks
11-20-2008, 06:53 PM
The Cuban thing: Will lightening strike twice? Or does KW have a connection?

The defensive thing: Can he play D? He is an 3B/ RF according to Phil Rogers. Does that just mean he has power?

Oh yeah, did I read it right? $11 mil for 1 year?

It says major league deal worth 11 million and later says it is more than twice the contract Alexei received.

Alexei was what 4 years 4.5 million?

So I assume it is 4 years 11 million.

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 06:56 PM
Why? Because he played with him? He married the guy's sister?
Seriously? Because Alexei is very interested in furthering the presence of Cuban baseball in the U.S. I doubt he's going to tell a reporter his defense sucks.

oeo
11-20-2008, 06:57 PM
Seriously? Because Alexei is very interested in furthering the presence of Cuban baseball in the U.S. I doubt he's going to tell a reporter his defense sucks.

We'll see. I highly doubt the guy goes from a very good defender to just plain awful. Maybe as he's grown he's lost some range, but I can't believe that he's become a butcher.

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 06:58 PM
We'll see. I highly doubt the guy goes from a very good defender to just plain awful. Maybe as he's grown he's lost some range, but I can't believe that he's become a butcher.
We don't really know if he's a very good defender, though. There's no proof of this, and the organization doesn't exactly place a lot of emphasis on good fielders.

oeo
11-20-2008, 06:59 PM
We don't really know if he's a very good defender, though. There's no proof of this, and the organization doesn't exactly place a lot of emphasis on good fielders.

He was hyped up as a 5-tool guy. And whoever said his defense has gone down the tubes, obviously felt a bit higher on his defense in the past.

It goes both ways, Craig. There's also no proof that he's a bad defender.

Judging from Alexei, I'm going to guess that Viciedo comes in very raw. I'm sure the talent is there, otherwise it wouldn't have been noticed so many years ago. The question is, can he learn as quickly as Alexei?

I still think Fields starts at third base. If Viciedo has a big spring, he may be put into the same type of role as Alexei last year. Play the corners in the outfield and infield off the bench.

DumpJerry
11-20-2008, 07:00 PM
Seriously? Because Alexei is very interested in furthering the presence of Cuban baseball in the U.S. I doubt he's going to tell a reporter his defense sucks.
The guy was going to sign with one of the 30 MLB teams, so I don't think Alexei feels a need to build him up to make sure Viciedo is added to the Cuban presence in MLB. If Alexei felt that he would not be a benefit to the Sox, don't you think he would have said something to Kenny for the good of the team?

It does not make sense to say Alexei would sacrifice the team to bring on a player he feels is not up to par.

luke4me1st
11-20-2008, 07:03 PM
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/11/sox-to-sign-19.html

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 07:03 PM
The guy was going to sign with one of the 30 MLB teams, so I don't think Alexei feels a need to build him up to make sure Viciedo is added to the Cuban presence in MLB. If Alexei felt that he would not be a benefit to the Sox, don't you think he would have said something to Kenny for the good of the team?

It does not make sense to say Alexei would sacrifice the team to bring on a player he feels is not up to par.
I'm saying Alexei's judgment is clouded. While many in the US believe Cuban baseball might be on par with A ball, some Cubans believe it's AA or AAA at the least.

oeo
11-20-2008, 07:05 PM
I'm saying Alexei's judgment is clouded. While many in the US believe Cuban baseball might be on par with A ball, some Cubans believe it's AA or AAA at the least.

Well, Alexei hopped right from the Cuban leagues, so I don't know why he would think differently.

Let's be honest, not many people know a whole lot about Cuban baseball, so the guesses at A ball are just that.

2906
11-20-2008, 07:05 PM
I'm saying Alexei's judgment is clouded.

He just played a full year in the big leagues so he ought to know what it takes.

I agree with the poster who said let's wait and see on this. All this speculating is arguing just to argue. I'm happy he apparently signed with the White Sox and that he's supposedly a talent. Everything else is hearsay.

SoxSpeed22
11-20-2008, 07:05 PM
Always good to keep adding talent. Let's hope he can have a big impact.

Scottiehaswheels
11-20-2008, 07:07 PM
Great news! I've been wondering since Monday when we would hear something as his agent said they expected a deal to get done by Monday of this week.

roylestillman
11-20-2008, 07:12 PM
He's NOT ML ready. He's only 19!!!



Well, if we use the Jose Contreras Cuban age coversion factor, the guy is probably 35.

oeo
11-20-2008, 07:13 PM
Well, if we use the Jose Contreras Cuban age coversion factor, the guy is probably 35.

Have you seen the pictures of him? There's no way he's older than lower 20's, at the highest, and I actually think he looks as young as 19.

Daver
11-20-2008, 07:13 PM
Why? Because he played with him? He married the guy's sister?

Because you never get a full description of a player from a player, they only point out strengths, and tend to ignore weaknesses, they have no reason to be objective.

soxinem1
11-20-2008, 07:17 PM
He looks and reminds me of CLee, who was a 3B when he was 19.

This is not a bad thing, but I would wonder what makes him better than Josh Fields then?

Fields has some speed and excellent raw power. Viciedo has some speed and excellent raw power.

Fields is looked down on right now because they don't think he took his conditioning seriously. Viciedo has been noted to have been lazy and overweight in recent years.

I cannot recall too many stocky 3B that were excellent defensively, and a 4yr/$11 million contract for such a young guy means they will have to 'fast track' him to the majors.

Let's just see what happens......

Sockinchisox
11-20-2008, 07:17 PM
Cowley is confirming it as well, he'll be in Chicago tomorrow probably for a physical.

http://twitter.com/cst_sox/status/1015662148

Jurr
11-20-2008, 07:21 PM
Let's hope for a Miguel Cabrera-esque start to his career! Whoo hoo!

chisoxfanatic
11-20-2008, 07:22 PM
Well, this is great to hear. I'm sure TCM will give him great tutelage. Cubans are smart baseball players for the most part. I look forward to seeing him play.

veeter
11-20-2008, 07:24 PM
I'm excited because I trust Kenny. This kid's agent has him in the HOF already. Some scout says he's fat and lazy. I'm sure he can play at a high level. Now it's just a matter of bringing him along a the right pace. To me, this means Josh is as good as traded.

Jerome
11-20-2008, 07:25 PM
so KW is outsourcing the minor league system to Cuba, huh?

chisox616
11-20-2008, 07:34 PM
Schweeeeet! Can't wait for spring training to start now, I knew we were gonna make a signing this week.

soxpride724
11-20-2008, 07:42 PM
Awesome news, I hope this kid lives up to his hype.

DumpJerry
11-20-2008, 08:00 PM
Awesome news, I hope this kid lives up to his hype.
:hurt
DBTH

JK, I'm sure he'll work out fine in the long run.

whitesox901
11-20-2008, 08:14 PM
So if he is ready for third base job this year, any chance Fields can move to LF? That way if Dye is traded we can move TCQ to RF?

JermaineDye05
11-20-2008, 08:18 PM
So if he is ready for third base job this year, any chance Fields can move to LF? That way if Dye is traded we can move TCQ to RF?

No.

WhiteSoxOnly
11-20-2008, 08:23 PM
So if he is ready for third base job this year, any chance Fields can move to LF? That way if Dye is traded we can move TCQ to RF?

Right now Fields playing anywhere in the field means...:cower:

Daver
11-20-2008, 08:25 PM
So if he is ready for third base job this year, any chance Fields can move to LF? That way if Dye is traded we can move TCQ to RF?

That is a great idea considering how well he played LF in 2006.

SoxNation05
11-20-2008, 08:27 PM
So if he is ready for third base job this year, any chance Fields can move to LF? That way if Dye is traded we can move TCQ to RF?
Why not just put Viciedo in right. He actually has a past there and from what I have read he has a cannon of an arm

JermaineDye05
11-20-2008, 08:28 PM
Why not just put Viciedo in right. He actually has a past there and from what I have read he has a cannon of an arm

http://www.massaveathon.com/Frank_Costanza2.jpg

"He's got a rocket for an arm!"

cheezheadsoxfan
11-20-2008, 08:28 PM
This is exciting, Cubans seem to be good luck for us. :cool:
Be nice if we could get something for Fields. Ozzie seem to ignore outfield defense, but I think (hope?) he's a little fussier with the infield.

NLaloosh
11-20-2008, 08:41 PM
The contract is $ 11 mil. For 5 years.

munchman33
11-20-2008, 08:42 PM
This is great news. We've got three options for 3B that could all surprise and payoff immensely. Not to mention, even if he isn't ready this could push Fields to figure things out.

JermaineDye05
11-20-2008, 08:43 PM
The contract is $ 11 mil. For 5 years.

Source? I've heard the 11 million part just not the 5 years part.

sox1970
11-20-2008, 08:45 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/1291555,white-sox-dayman-viciedo-112008.article

Torres talks big.

Bucky F. Dent
11-20-2008, 08:45 PM
Great News!

Looking forward to spring training already!

oeo
11-20-2008, 08:48 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/1291555,white-sox-dayman-viciedo-112008.article

Torres talks big.

I want to see what Kenny has to say. What they liked about him, where they think he needs to improve, etc.

Daver
11-20-2008, 08:49 PM
Not to mention, even if he isn't ready this could push Fields to figure things out.

Figure what out?

Tragg
11-20-2008, 08:53 PM
That is a great idea considering how well he played LF in 2006.
What about 1B?

jcw218
11-20-2008, 08:54 PM
Story (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081120&content_id=3687188&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws) from Whitesox.com

thomas35forever
11-20-2008, 08:56 PM
:bandance:

Chicago White Sox: signing young Cuban stars since 2007!

I can't wait to see what this kid can do.

...
11-20-2008, 08:56 PM
Ah, yes. What a foolish stance to take. How about you give me any reason to believe he is major league ready.

You give me any reason to believe the contrary, besides his age of course.

pmck003
11-20-2008, 08:59 PM
This is from a link on the chicago sun-times blogs:

Here's a list of the only players (in the last 20 years) to compile 400 plate appearances in a season while under the age 21.

Justin Upton
Adrian Beltre
Adruw Jones
Edgar Renteria
Alex Rodriguez
Pudge Rodriguez
Ken Griffey Jr. (Twice)
Gary Sheffield
Roberto Alomar

That would be some good company - makes me think he'll most likely need some time in the minors though

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 09:02 PM
You give me any reason to believe the contrary, besides his age of course.
He has never faced major league quality pitching. There have been a few reports stating that he is no longer among the better 3B in Cuba. Most of the positive reviews have come from his agent and countrymen.

And I don't know why you discount his age, that's very, very important.

LoveYourSuit
11-20-2008, 09:03 PM
Figure what out?


Daver, your agenda against Fields makes me laugh off my chair everytime you make a post. I think you hate the guy as much as I hated Swisher this year.


I am very excited about this signing because of what we saw from Alexei last season. For what teams are going to be paying for half ass talent in the ML ready FA market today, this is a bargain. Worst case if he doesn't make the big club, he already becomes your #1 prospect down there. A farm that is very very thing as we know.

I think he makes the big club just because they want to keep an eye on him so he doesn't wonder off and get lost down there.

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 09:04 PM
Daver, your agenda against Fields makes me laugh off my chair everytime you make a post. I think you hate the guy as much as I hated Swisher this year.


I am very excited about this signing because of what we saw from Alexei last season. For what teams are going to be paying for half ass talent in the ML ready FA market today, this is a bargain. Worst case if he doesn't make the big club, he already becomes your #1 prospect down there. A farm that is very very thing as we know.

I think he makes the big club just because they want to keep an eye on him so he doesn't wonder off and get lost down there.
Debatable, at best.

Rockabilly
11-20-2008, 09:05 PM
great deal ..

Kenny Williams is a great GM

Daver
11-20-2008, 09:06 PM
He has never faced major league quality pitching. There have been a few reports stating that he is no longer among the better 3B in Cuba. Most of the positive reviews have come from his agent and countrymen.

And I don't know why you discount his age, that's very, very important.

Cuban pitching for the most part is roughly equal to AA pitching, it's pretty good overall. Cuba is pretty good as far as a talent pool, the main sport of the country is baseball, and all other sports are a distant second.

...
11-20-2008, 09:11 PM
He has never faced major league quality pitching. There have been a few reports stating that he is no longer among the better 3B in Cuba. Most of the positive reviews have come from his agent and countrymen.

And I don't know why you discount his age, that's very, very important.

Viciedo has dominated the equivalent to AA pitching since age 14. 19 year old players in the US have been hitting high school and middle school pitching during that time period. This is why his current age is irrelevant.

Why do you always have to be so ****ing negative?

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 09:13 PM
Viciedo has dominated the equivalent to AA pitching since age 14. 19 year old players in the US have been hitting high school and middle school pitching during that time period. This is why his current age is irrelevant.

Why do you always have to be so ****ing negative?
I'm a realist. I'm positive towards things that are deserving of positivity (Quentin trade, Swisher trade pt. I, Jerry Owens hurting himself, etc.). Show me one report of him dominating AA level (Cuban professional baseball) since he was 14. Just one. Please.

I'm glad we signed him, but I'm realistic. We shouldn't expect him to be on the 25 man at any point before June or July. If he is, it'd be a shock.

pmck003
11-20-2008, 09:15 PM
Another thing to think about - Viciedo is getting what amounts to a top draft pick contract (somewhat similar to what David Price is getting). Is he worth that much?

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 09:17 PM
Another thing to think about - Viciedo is getting what amounts to a top draft pick contract (somewhat similar to what David Price is getting). Is he worth that much?
Probably. It's a hell of a lot better use of funds than dropping money on a free agent starter. He's a long term fit at a position where we have a ton of mediocrity.

JermaineDye05
11-20-2008, 09:20 PM
Another thing to think about - Viciedo is getting what amounts to a top draft pick contract (somewhat similar to what David Price is getting). Is he worth that much?

When you look at what some draft picks are getting (Samarjjjajajaaia), Viciedo sounds like a bargain if it really is the contract they are reporting.

...
11-20-2008, 09:20 PM
I'm a realist. I'm positive towards things that are deserving of positivity (Quentin trade, Swisher trade pt. I, Jerry Owens hurting himself, etc.). Show me one report of him dominating AA level (Cuban professional baseball) since he was 14. Just one. Please.

I'm glad we signed him, but I'm realistic. We shouldn't expect him to be on the 25 man at any point before June or July. If he is, it'd be a shock.

Realist? Church it up anyway you want. I know people like you and there's a reason I and everyone else avoid them.

Rdy2PlayBall
11-20-2008, 09:20 PM
OK, you guys who are saying we can't trust Viciedo's manager or Alexei, just stop. Who the heck chose to pay the guy and signed in on the team? Not either of them, KW did. It's not like he went to some high school and picked up a kid with a high batting average, this kid must have some skill. Stop trying to be one of the downers that was "right" that he won't be good or start, because you only look worse than if you had a positive attitude. :scratch: There is a lot more hype on this guy than there was on Alexei, who cares a couple of scouts say he's "fat" like a lot of your are saying.

Just wait until the pre-season starts or until KW says something about the guy, because all you guys really know is he killed in the Cuban League, and he's on the Sox now. :rolleyes:

LoveYourSuit
11-20-2008, 09:21 PM
Debatable, at best.


Are you ****ing kidding me?

Who do you see ahead of him?

Please don't say Poreda, a projected set up man / closer.

cwsfannick
11-20-2008, 09:21 PM
Another thing to think about - Viciedo is getting what amounts to a top draft pick contract (somewhat similar to what David Price is getting). Is he worth that much?

Well lets hope he has as rapid ascent through the Sox farm system as Price did through the Rays.

october23sp
11-20-2008, 09:23 PM
Great News!!:bandance:

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 09:23 PM
Are you ****ing kidding me?

Who do you see ahead of him?

Please don't say Poreda, a projected set up man / closer.
Uh, I don't know. Gordon Beckham and Aaron Poreda. What basis would anyone use for Viciedo's ranking? As a total unknown, there'd be no justification for him being number one. Poreda is not a projected set up man or closer, by the way.

LoveYourSuit
11-20-2008, 09:23 PM
OK, you guys who are saying we can't trust Viciedo's manager or Alexei, just stop. Who the heck chose to pay the guy and signed in on the team? Not either of them, KW did. It's not like he went to some high school and picked up a kid with a high batting average, this kid must have some skill. Stop trying to be one of the downers that was "right" that he won't be good or start, because you only look worse than if you had a positive attitude. :scratch: There is a lot more hype on this guy than there was on Alexei, who cares a couple of scouts say he's "fat" like a lot of your are saying.

Just wait until the pre-season starts or until KW says something about the guy, because all you guys really know is he killed in the Cuban League, and he's on the Sox now. :rolleyes:


That's exactly right.

There is one poster who is on a constant rant against this kid. What, you think Kenny is a moron all of a sudden?

Daver
11-20-2008, 09:24 PM
Daver, your agenda against Fields makes me laugh off my chair everytime you make a post. I think you hate the guy as much as I hated Swisher this year.

I don't hate anyone, hate is a very strong word, I just get amused at all the people that think the guy is going to magically improve defensively, and point to his brief time at the MLB level as proof he is going to be a superstar. If he in fact is the third baseman for the Sox next season, so be it, I just don't think it is a good choice for a pitching staff that is built for the most part as ground ball pitchers.

I know, I'm living in the past where baseball was a game of pitching and defense.

LoveYourSuit
11-20-2008, 09:27 PM
Uh, I don't know. Gordon Beckham and Aaron Poreda. What basis would anyone use for Viciedo's ranking? As a total unknown, there'd be no justification for him being number one. Poreda is not a projected set up man or closer, by the way.


Yes he is, by the way.


Beckham, I can agree he would be up there as a #1 with this guy. I haven't seen him nor many people have because unfortunately the circumstances of the place he comes from doesn't give your the liberty to fly in and out of there to go scout him. But just the few that have had the opportunity, most speak very highly of him.

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 09:27 PM
OK, you guys who are saying we can't trust Viciedo's manager or Alexei, just stop. Who the heck chose to pay the guy and signed in on the team? Not either of them, KW did. It's not like he went to some high school and picked up a kid with a high batting average, this kid must have some skill. Stop trying to be one of the downers that was "right" that he won't be good or start, because you only look worse than if you had a positive attitude. :scratch: There is a lot more hype on this guy than there was on Alexei, who cares a couple of scouts say he's "fat" like a lot of your are saying.

Just wait until the pre-season starts or until KW says something about the guy, because all you guys really know is he killed in the Cuban League, and he's on the Sox now. :rolleyes:
I'm sorry that I look for a little more objective analysis than what comes from his agent or his former teammates. It's alright to analyze something from a perspective that isn't totally pro-Sox, but rather even-keeled. Not everyone needs to think like Hawk Harrelson.

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 09:28 PM
Yes he is, by the way.


Beckham, I can agree he would be up there as a #1 with this guy. I haven't seen him nor many people have because unfortunately the circumstances of the place he comes from doesn't give your the liberty to fly in and out of there to go scout him. But just the few that have had the opportunity, most speak very highly of him.
And what gives you that opinion on Poreda? There's no reason to give up on him being a starter -- he's shined at absolutely every level.

Who are these guys speaking highly of him? Seriously. They are his agent, and his former teammate. There are anonymous scouts who speak poorly of him as well.

LoveYourSuit
11-20-2008, 09:30 PM
I'm sorry that I look for a little more objective analysis than what comes from his agent or his former teammates. It's alright to analyze something from a perspective that isn't totally pro-Sox, but rather even-keeled. Not everyone needs to think like Hawk Harrelson.


One thing is to be objective, but when you haven't seen the guy play like everyon here why fly to the negative side? I think we can trust Kenny and that's why we are excited about the move.

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 09:31 PM
One thing is to be objective, but when you haven't seen the guy play like everyon here why fly to the negative side? I think we can trust Kenny and that's why we are excited about the move.
Because there's no reason for me or anyone to believe he's going to be on the 25 man roster at the end of spring training. There's no justification for that.

LoveYourSuit
11-20-2008, 09:32 PM
And what gives you that opinion on Poreda? There's no reason to give up on him being a starter -- he's shined at absolutely every level.

Who are these guys speaking highly of him? Seriously. They are his agent, and his former teammate. There are anonymous scouts who speak poorly of him as well.


Ok you win. He's going to suck. Just to make you happy we will all agree that he is going to suck. Be happy your favorite team just pissed away $11 million. Everyone that has said anything positive about the kids is a comlete liar.

Kenny just spent $11 million on a tub of lard.

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 09:35 PM
Ok you win. He's going to suck. Just to make you happy we will all agree that he is going to suck. Be happy your favorite team just pissed away $11 million. Everyone that has said anything positive about the kids is a comlete liar.

Kenny just spent $11 million on a tub of lard.
Yes, exactly what I'm saying. Disregard my earlier post where I said I liked the signing because it was a good use of assets. Way to play the strawman.

pmck003
11-20-2008, 09:35 PM
When you look at what some draft picks are getting (Samarjjjajajaaia), Viciedo sounds like a bargain if it really is the contract they are reporting.

I dunno - best comparison seems to be with Justin Upton who, a few weeks before his 20th birthday, signed a 5yr/6.1 contract with a 6.1 bonus. Price's contract was somewhat similar as well but he is older.

I'm not saying this as a negative - I'd take it as that KW seems to think Viciedo compares with some of the best prospects over the last few years. At the same time it seems like there would be more public scouting information if he is really this good though.

LoveYourSuit
11-20-2008, 09:37 PM
Because there's no reason for me or anyone to believe he's going to be on the 25 man roster at the end of spring training. There's no justification for that.


I wish I could track back all your posts on the day we signed Alexei, who was even a lesser known talent by the few people that knew him.

And why wouldn't he have a chance to make the 25th spot on the roster? Because we have Alex Rodriguez playing 3B? Or becuase there is no way anyone can push the great Dwayne Wise off that spot. Or is it because Jerry Owens and Brian Anderson are "due to break out this year."


You talk like our 25 man roster is full of greatness.

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 09:38 PM
I wish I could track back all your posts on the day we signed Alexei, who was even a lesser known talent by the few people that knew him.

And why wouldn't he have a chance to make the 25th spot on the roster? Because we have Alex Rodriguez playing 3B? Or becuase there is no way anyone can push the great Dwayne Wise off that spot. Or is it because Jerry Owens and Brian Anderson are "due to break out this year."


You talk like our 25 man roster is full of greatness.
How many 19 year olds make 25 man rosters per year?

Also, Alexei and Dayan are not the same person. Alexei succeeding at 26 is not the same as Dayan succeeding at 19.

LoveYourSuit
11-20-2008, 09:40 PM
How many 19 year olds make 25 man rosters per year?

Also, Alexei and Dayan are not the same person. Alexei succeeding at 26 is not the same as Dayan succeeding at 19.


Right because you believe everyone that this kid is 19.

What happened to not believing the sources?

So you only believe the sources that help you support your negative arguement..... OK

turners56
11-20-2008, 09:41 PM
Alexei Ramirez Part II

This is great.

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 09:43 PM
Right because you believe everyone that this kid is 19.

What happened to not believing the sources?

So you only believe the sources that help you support your negative arguement..... OK
What are you talking about? Why would I doubt this kid's age? A young corners player doesn't need to lie about his age as much as an older pitcher who wants a longer term contract. If anything, Viciedo would want to say he's older, in order to deflect concerns of maturity.

I believe sources that are valid or somewhat objective. I don't see what's so hard to understand about this.

oeo
11-20-2008, 09:43 PM
I'm a realist.

Everybody says they're a realist around here...

guillensdisciple
11-20-2008, 09:46 PM
He'll pan out, I think sooner then later.

After Fields and Betemit struggle out there Ozzie will have no choice, and that is where he will get his shot.

Of course, if Fields gets off to a fine start, and Viciedo needs more development. Develop away!

pmck003
11-20-2008, 09:47 PM
I wish I could track back all your posts on the day we signed Alexei, who was even a lesser known talent by the few people that knew him.
.

As a fan, I have no problem with the Sox spending money. But considering the contract numbers and the historic production of 19-20 year olds at the major league level, its arguably more than 3x the risk that Alexei was.

Daver
11-20-2008, 09:47 PM
Everybody says they're a realist around here...

Even the propellerheads.

decolores9628
11-20-2008, 09:49 PM
Anyone know how to look at his stats in the Cuban league?

LoveYourSuit
11-20-2008, 09:49 PM
What are you talking about? Why would I doubt this kid's age? A young corners player doesn't need to lie about his age as much as an older pitcher who wants a longer term contract. If anything, Viciedo would want to say he's older, in order to deflect concerns of maturity.

I believe sources that are valid or somewhat objective. I don't see what's so hard to understand about this.

You are joking right?

Saying an older age will minimize the potential $$$ he can earn over the life of his ML career.

He says he's 19 signs a 5 year deal .... he becomes a FA when he is 24. He then has a chance to make BIG BIG BIG Major League dollars on his next 2 big contracts. He plays until he is 35, That's 11 years of FAT ML $$$.

He says he's 26 and he gets Alexei money on his first deal becomes a FA when he is 31 and then he is lucky to get a 3 year deal at that age for big money.


Wow, your arguement is so flawed.

But keep it coming.

guillensdisciple
11-20-2008, 09:50 PM
As a fan, I have no problem with the Sox spending money. But considering the contract numbers and the historic production of 19-20 year olds at the major league level, its arguably more than 3x the risk that Alexi was.

Very true, but I would rather pay him the money to develop for the Sox then for any other team.

Justin Upton is a boat load of talent and hasn't produced god-like numbers, but they signed him up because they knew he needed time to develop.

Think about it, if he develops into the monster people say he can be, a core of Viciedo, Quentin, Ramirez, and Konerko would look really nice. I am not even considering the possible free agent signings but the White Sox have money to spend.

LoveYourSuit
11-20-2008, 09:53 PM
As a fan, I have no problem with the Sox spending money. But considering the contract numbers and the historic production of 19-20 year olds at the major league level, its arguably more than 3x the risk that Alexi was.


Right because you are getting ready to post an image of a copy of his REAL Birth Certificate somehow you obtained?

pmck003
11-20-2008, 09:55 PM
Right because you are getting ready to post an image of a copy of his REAL Birth Certificate somehow you obtained?

And that makes him less of a risk how? Maybe he's 16

turners56
11-20-2008, 09:57 PM
Anyone know how to look at his stats in the Cuban league?

http://www.southsidesox.com/2008/11/8/656758/dayan-viciedo-is-a-free-ag#

It's a bit messy, but you can try and decipher.

CWSpalehoseCWS
11-20-2008, 10:02 PM
How many 19 year olds make 25 man rosters per year?

Also, Alexei and Dayan are not the same person. Alexei succeeding at 26 is not the same as Dayan succeeding at 19.

That doesn't mean he won't. If he can bat .250 with 20 HR's I'll consider him a success. He sounds like he has more potential than Ramirez did when we signed him, and I think it would be accurate to say Ramirez surprised all of us. Doesn't mean he will right away, but it doesn't mean he won't either. Plus it's not like you can actually say that Fields or Betemit are much better options at third at this point. Fields is a K machine and Betemit is a career utility man. Of course there will be a learning curve, but that doesn't mean he won't adjust, especially with Contreras and Ramirez to help him out.

LoveYourSuit
11-20-2008, 10:03 PM
And that makes him less of a risk how? Maybe he's 16


Add 3 the other way.

Age should never be considered a risk factor unless the person is on a walker.

If he can play, he can play. As I said, trusting Kenny's judgment of young talent one could only be excited about this pick up. And knowing Kenny, the kid is closer to cracking the ML roster than most of you guys think.

How many of Kenny's young player pick ups have sat for more than a year in the minors? Not many. How many have cracked the roster right away? A good amount of them. Kenny picks up players that he feels are very close if not ready to play at the big level.

whitesox901
11-20-2008, 10:03 PM
I think he'll start in AA then move to AAA later on in the season and have a pretty damn good year, meanwhile in Chicago, Fields has a decent year bat and glove and is traded away in the off season

guillensdisciple
11-20-2008, 10:05 PM
http://www.cubasi.cu/beisbolcubano/videos/jonron-viciedo-3-01.htm




http://www.cubasi.cu/beisbolcubano/videos/jonron-de-jonron-dayan-viciedo2-scu-vs-vcl.htm



Just a little of what I could muster up on the kid.

EuroSox35
11-20-2008, 10:06 PM
He'll pan out, I think sooner then later.


I love the move, but there's really no way anyone can know either way. Alexei looks like a stud but that doesn't mean everyone who plays in Cuba will be. Same thing with the Japan stuff, when everyone fell in love with Ichiro and then everyone thought Kaz Matsui and the like would be studs here.

A. Cavatica
11-20-2008, 10:06 PM
Look -- from published reports it sounds like he's a much better prospect than Alexei was. He's certainly much younger, and youth equals upside. We have Alexei's firsthand reports about him, and Sox scouts have seen him.

$11M for Viciedo when the Bosox spent $100M on Matsuzaka? This is a fantastic signing -- just as much upside and a huge bargain.

LoveYourSuit
11-20-2008, 10:07 PM
That doesn't mean he won't. If he can bat .250 with 20 HR's I'll consider him a success. He sounds like he has more potential than Ramirez did when we signed him, and I think it would be accurate to say Ramirez surprised all of us. Doesn't mean he will right away, but it doesn't mean he won't either. Plus it's not like you can actually say that Fields or Betemit are much better options at third at this point. Fields is a K machine and Betemit is a career utility man. Of course there will be a learning curve, but that doesn't mean he won't adjust, especially with Contreras and Ramirez to help him out.


Very good points.

He is not pushing Mike Schmidt at 3B. It is the same arguement we were having about Alexei last spring when people said he was not ready and yet the competition he was lookig up to was Juan Uribe and Danny Richar. Are you kidding me?

LoveYourSuit
11-20-2008, 10:09 PM
I think he'll start in AA then move to AAA later on in the season and have a pretty damn good year, meanwhile in Chicago, Fields has a decent year bat and glove and is traded away in the off season


If that's the case, why would you trade him then? He would be very cheap and effective.

guillensdisciple
11-20-2008, 10:10 PM
Very good points.

He is not pushing Mike Schmidt at 3B. It is the same arguement we were having about Alexei last spring when people said he was not ready and yet the competition he was lookig up to was Juan Uribe and Danny Richar. Are you kidding me?

Yes, that is exactly it, he doesn't have much to overcome. That is why I think he will get his chance much sooner then any of us believe. Whether he will be ready is something we won't know. But I would rather see a struggling developer in Viciedo who, by playing in the bigs, can get adjusted to the pitching, then Fields and Betemit pull the same numbers and actually have back up in the bigs.


I don't know, that makes sense to me.

whitesox901
11-20-2008, 10:15 PM
If that's the case, why would you trade him then? He would be very cheap and effective.

If you've read my posts before, I usually have no logic :tongue:

but mostly, I type before I think.

btrain929
11-20-2008, 10:23 PM
http://www.cubasi.cu/beisbolcubano/videos/jonron-viciedo-3-01.htm




http://www.cubasi.cu/beisbolcubano/videos/jonron-de-jonron-dayan-viciedo2-scu-vs-vcl.htm



Just a little of what I could muster up on the kid.

In the first video, it looks like he has a nice little toe-tap while waiting for the pitch. That usually helps when it comes to waiting back on offspeed pitches, which would be my #1 concern since I'm sure the offspeed stuff in Cuba doesn't compare to the offspeed stuff here.

btrain929
11-20-2008, 10:25 PM
I think he'll start in AA then move to AAA later on in the season and have a pretty damn good year, meanwhile in Chicago, Fields has a decent year bat and glove and is traded away in the off season

If that's TRULY the case, I'd say in 2010, keep Fields at 3B, exercise Dye's option and move him to DH, and put Viciedo in RF. Or if we bring Thome back on the cheap and find a taker for Konerko, Fields to 1B and Viciedo at 3B.

But again, that's getting way ahead of ourselves.

pmck003
11-20-2008, 10:25 PM
Add 3 the other way.

Age should never be considered a risk factor unless the person is on a walker.

If he can play, he can play. As I said, trusting Kenny's judgment of young talent one could only be excited about this pick up. And knowing Kenny, the kid is closer to cracking the ML roster than most of you guys think.

How many of Kenny's young player pick ups have sat for more than a year in the minors? Not many. How many have cracked the roster right away? A good amount of them. Kenny picks up players that he feels are very close if not ready to play at the big level.

If your convinced he's 22 but rip my argument based on his stated age thats great, and if he is 22 I would be more prone to agree with what you are saying. Assuming that he is 19 since there is more evidence that he is 19 rather than 22 or 11, I posted earlier that there were about 8 or 10 players in the last 20 years who got more than 400 AB under the age of 21, half of which are future HOFers. I think its a significanly higher risk to assume that Viciendo will be able to contribute similar to Alexei within the next 2 years and possibly throughout his entire contract.

I also said that I am happy the Sox signed him, and I agree with what your saying about KW having pretty good success lately with getting players who are ready for the major leagues. Everything else I read seems to say that he could be a dominant force. Edit - I am excited

Daver
11-20-2008, 10:26 PM
which would be my #1 concern since I'm sure the offspeed stuff in Cuba doesn't compare to the offspeed stuff here.
Based on what?

CashMan
11-20-2008, 10:30 PM
Based on what?

I would assume if it was comparable, they would be pitching in the MLB rather than Cuba.

btrain929
11-20-2008, 10:31 PM
Based on what?

Based on common ****ing sense.

wsgdf
11-20-2008, 10:33 PM
I love the move, but there's really no way anyone can know either way. Alexei looks like a stud but that doesn't mean everyone who plays in Cuba will be. Same thing with the Japan stuff, when everyone fell in love with Ichiro and then everyone thought Kaz Matsui and the like would be studs here.


At 16 years old, the dude hit .337 with 14 homers in the Cuban National Series (the same league Alexei played in for 6 years). In 2007 Alexei hit .338 with 20 homers in the Cuban National Series at age 25.

That would suggest that Dayan Viciedo is a flat out stud.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day%C3%A1n_Viciedo

kittle42
11-20-2008, 10:37 PM
I'm glad we signed him, but I'm realistic. We shouldn't expect him to be on the 25 man at any point before June or July. If he is, it'd be a shock.

Had Ramirez not broken out or been a total bust, no one here would really be talking so optimistically about this signing.

TheOldRoman
11-20-2008, 10:41 PM
I am happy to have him in the fold. I am not expecting him to be on the roster opening day, but he will contribute eventually. He has the potential to be a great, great hitter. Hopefully he fulfills his potential, averages 40 homers a year over the next 10 years hitting behind Quentin, and wins 9-10 world championships here. :D:

oeo
11-20-2008, 10:41 PM
I would assume if it was comparable, they would be pitching in the MLB rather than Cuba.

Well that's not completely true. I'm sure there are more big league caliber players over there. If it was as easy as just coming right over (which is a challenge in itself), I'm sure we'd see a lot more of them.

kittle42
11-20-2008, 10:42 PM
But again, that's getting way ahead of ourselves.

That's what almost everyone in this thread is doing, and it's silly.

kittle42
11-20-2008, 10:43 PM
Based on what?

I would assume if it was comparable, they would be pitching in the MLB rather than Cuba.

Correct. Daver, you yourself stated that Cuba=AA, so why ask why he thinks offspeed pitches would be harder to deal with in the majors?

champagne030
11-20-2008, 10:45 PM
He just played a full year in the big leagues so he ought to know what it takes.

I agree with the poster who said let's wait and see on this. All this speculating is arguing just to argue. I'm happy he apparently signed with the White Sox and that he's supposedly a talent. Everything else is hearsay.

Kendry Morales was can't miss out of Cuba. Where's he pumping gas these days?

I'm a realist. I'm positive towards things

Overly positive of all things Jed Lowrie. :cool:

http://www.cubasi.cu/beisbolcubano/videos/jonron-viciedo-3-01.htm




http://www.cubasi.cu/beisbolcubano/videos/jonron-de-jonron-dayan-viciedo2-scu-vs-vcl.htm



Just a little of what I could muster up on the kid.

Wow, he needs to hit the gym, Atkins diet, ect. He's a fat **** at 19. That's some serious weight to lose to be agile enough to play anywhere but 1B......Hopefully, he can hit like Miguel Cabrera since it looks like he went on that diet at 18.

Hopefully, Kenny did his homework on this or it will be a horrible mistake. He just paid a little less than twice for any player signed in the 2008 draft, but has no problem paying $11M on a MLB contract to a 19 year old in this deal.

Daver
11-20-2008, 10:46 PM
I would assume if it was comparable, they would be pitching in the MLB rather than Cuba.

Yeah, walking out of a communist country is as simple as driving to Wisconsin.

Based on common ****ing sense.

That's something you have proven to not have much of.

oeo
11-20-2008, 10:49 PM
Correct. Daver, you yourself stated that Cuba=AA, so why ask why he thinks offspeed pitches would be harder to deal with in the majors?

I'm not defending Daver, but if you don't think he's seen major league quality over there, you're nuts. Just because we don't know much about their league, does not mean that it's just a bunch of AA ballplayers. I'm sure they have plenty of major league quality talent.

Obviously it's not as full with talent, but I'm sure Viciedo has seen some pretty damn good pitchers and some pretty damn good breaking stuff.

btrain929
11-20-2008, 10:51 PM
Correct. Daver, you yourself stated that Cuba=AA, so why ask why he thinks offspeed pitches would be harder to deal with in the majors?

Alzheimer's disease.

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 10:52 PM
Alzheimer's disease.
Ah, first you joke about sickle cell anemia and now it's Alzheimer's disease. Ever hear of karma?

...
11-20-2008, 10:54 PM
Ah, first you joke about sickle cell anemia and now it's Alzheimer's disease. Ever hear of karma?

First you call yourself a "realist" and now I hear you believe in karma??? Ha.

TheOldRoman
11-20-2008, 10:54 PM
Wow, he needs to hit the gym, Atkins diet, ect. He's a fat **** at 19. That's some serious weight to lose to be agile enough to play anywhere but 1B......Hopefully, he can hit like Miguel Cabrera since it looks like he went on that diet at 18.You got that from those poor quality videos? I don't even think those are recent. He may have looked a little "doughy" in those, but he looked more like a mountain of a man than a fat ass. If he is currently built like in those videos right now, I don't think he will have a problem. Of course, he will most likely lose weight and put on more muscle. He is coming into his athletic prime, to a place with much better facilities and incredible nutritional sciences. Hell, he will even have people to cook every meal for him. That doesn't mean he will surely drop 20 lbs, but he has a great chance to.

btrain929
11-20-2008, 10:56 PM
I'm not defending Daver, but if you don't think he's seen major league quality over there, you're nuts. Just because we don't know much about their league, does not mean that it's just a bunch of AA ballplayers. I'm sure they have plenty of major league quality talent.

Obviously it's not as full with talent, but I'm sure Viciedo has seen some pretty damn good pitchers and some pretty damn good breaking stuff.

Well I guess I'll have to go out on a limb, and say he hasn't seen any Greg Maddux 2-seamers, Bobby Jenks curveballs, Joel Zumaya fastballs, Joba Chamberlain sliders, and Mariano Rivera cutters in Cuba.

I'm sure they have faced good pitching over there, but in my opinion, not as good as what's here in the bigs.

btrain929
11-20-2008, 10:57 PM
Ah, first you joke about sickle cell anemia and now it's Alzheimer's disease. Ever hear of karma?

Yeah, along with Santa and the toothfairy.

gregory18n
11-20-2008, 10:57 PM
when we 1st signed alexi there seemed to be a consensus no.1 cuban player amongst the board members. who was that guy and what is his situation today?

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 11:00 PM
First you call yourself a "realist" and now I hear you believe in karma??? Ha.
Sorry, man. Just trying to raise the bar here, conversation-wise. Didn't mean to offend you with my crazaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay belief system, brah.

champagne030
11-20-2008, 11:01 PM
You got that from those poor quality videos? I don't even think those are recent. He may have looked a little "doughy" in those, but he looked more like a mountain of a man than a fat ass. If he is currently built like in those videos right now, I don't think he will have a problem. Of course, he will most likely lose weight and put on more muscle. He is coming into his athletic prime, to a place with much better facilities and incredible nutritional sciences. Hell, he will even have people to cook every meal for him. That doesn't mean he will surely drop 20 lbs, but he has a great chance to.

He has an easy chance to drop the weight being so young and other things you stated.

He also has an equal chance of adding #'s since his pockets will be lined with cash. And yes, it was pretty easy to deduce that he had a gut and fat ass from those videos.

I stated that Kenny had better done his homework and I meant that, not only on ability, but makeup too.

soxwon
11-20-2008, 11:01 PM
So if Alexei is the Cuban Missle, is Dayan the Cuban Nuke?


read my posts THE CUBAN MUSCLE !!!!

oeo
11-20-2008, 11:02 PM
Well I guess I'll have to go out on a limb, and say he hasn't seen any Greg Maddux 2-seamers, Bobby Jenks curveballs, Joel Zumaya fastballs, Joba Chamberlain sliders, and Mariano Rivera cutters in Cuba.

How about Jose Contreras forkballs and Orlando Hernandez sliders? Come on...

Like I said, there's obviously not as much talent over there, but I'm sure there's major league talent. You're selling Cuban baseball a little short.

DrCrawdad
11-20-2008, 11:02 PM
The South Side is becoming Little Havana.


http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2007/02/14/uCPXEDrK.jpg
"What do you mean, it is becoming
Little Havana? It has been since 1951!"

CWSpalehoseCWS
11-20-2008, 11:03 PM
read my posts THE CUBAN MUSCLE !!!!

Time will tell. That would be funny to hear from Hawk though.

btrain929
11-20-2008, 11:07 PM
How about Jose Contreras forkballs and Orlando Hernandez sliders? Come on...

Like I said, there's obviously not as much talent over there, but I'm sure there's major league talent. You're selling Cuban baseball a little short.

Maybe, maybe not. That's why opinions are awesome.

jabrch
11-20-2008, 11:08 PM
I love it how many experts there are talking about a guy that hardly anyone has seen.

cws05champ
11-20-2008, 11:09 PM
Had Ramirez not broken out or been a total bust, no one here would really be talking so optimistically about this signing.

Had Ramirez not broken out, Viciedo would not have received as much $$. I think he owes Alexei some dinners!

champagne030
11-20-2008, 11:11 PM
I love it how many experts there are talking about a guy that hardly anyone has seen.

We know your against it because we paid $11M, on a MLB contract, for a 19 year old.

guillensdisciple
11-20-2008, 11:16 PM
We know your against it because we paid $11M, on a MLB contract, for a 19 year old.

Over what span of time, if it is over a 5 year period, that is 2 million a year.

We have just released Swisher's contract, this move secures a seemingly great young prospect, and still gives us the freedom to make moves in the offseason to improve the team.

I see no negatives in this situation.

Thome25
11-20-2008, 11:21 PM
Quick question: How do you pronounce his name? Also. after the Alexei signing I remeber seeing some you tube footage of him on this site. Do we have some of the same for this kid?

...
11-20-2008, 11:21 PM
Sorry, man. Just trying to raise the bar here, conversation-wise. Didn't mean to offend you with my crazaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay belief system, brah.

If by raise the bar your mean lower everyone's IQ, well then, apology accepted.

Brah.

kittle42
11-20-2008, 11:25 PM
First you call yourself a "realist" and now I hear you believe in karma??? Ha.

VERY well played.

...
11-20-2008, 11:27 PM
Quick question: How do you pronounce his name? Also. after the Alexei signing I remeber seeing some you tube footage of him on this site. Do we have some of the same for this kid?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRe5qbqty0s

Daver
11-20-2008, 11:27 PM
Quick question: How do you pronounce his name? Also. after the Alexei signing I remeber seeing some you tube footage of him on this site. Do we have some of the same for this kid?

It's optional, just like how you spell Alexei is, just go with what seems right.

champagne030
11-20-2008, 11:28 PM
Over what span of time, if it is over a 5 year period, that is 2 million a year.

We have just released Swisher's contract, this move secures a seemingly great young prospect, and still gives us the freedom to make moves in the offseason to improve the team.

I see no negatives in this situation.

I didn't say it was wrong. I did earlier say that Kenny had better have done his homework because he's passed on exceptional talent for less money in the draft.

I was stating the the poster I quoted has been on record that they're against such deals. That poster is the captain of the White Sox cheerleading squad, so it'll be interesting if they change their tune.

Corlose 15
11-20-2008, 11:30 PM
Quick question: How do you pronounce his name? Also. after the Alexei signing I remeber seeing some you tube footage of him on this site. Do we have some of the same for this kid?


Dah-yahn Vee-C-A-doe.

In some dialects the V at the beginning of his name would sound like a soft b.

Sockinchisox
11-20-2008, 11:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRe5qbqty0s

Based on that clip, his stance looks like Delmon Young's.

Rockabilly
11-20-2008, 11:33 PM
I haven't read every page but does anyone know if the Sox will be having a press conference tomorrow to introduce Dayan to the media.. I saw that he will be in Chicago tomorrow...

doublem23
11-20-2008, 11:35 PM
Dah-yahn Vee-C-A-doe.

In some dialects the V at the beginning of his name would sound like a soft b.

Not sure about Iberian pronunciation, but I believe all Latin Americans pronounce V's ad B's.

That said, with our old rube of an announcer, he's name is going to be pronounced with a V.

Sockinchisox
11-20-2008, 11:35 PM
I haven't read every page but does anyone know if the Sox will be having a press conference tomorrow to introduce Dayan to the media.. I saw that he will be in Chicago tomorrow...

There are problems with his visa, so it's TBA.

Corlose 15
11-20-2008, 11:35 PM
It's optional, just like how you spell Alexei is, just go with what seems right.

I wouldn't say that the way you spell somebody's name is optional.

btrain929
11-20-2008, 11:35 PM
I haven't read every page but does anyone know if the Sox will be having a press conference tomorrow to introduce Dayan to the media.. I saw that he will be in Chicago tomorrow...

I don't think they'll announce it until after his physical. Plus, one of the reporters (Cowley maybe?) said he might not be here tomorrow because of visa red tape.

Thome25
11-20-2008, 11:35 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRe5qbqty0s


WOW.....short, quick swing on that clip. Looks like he "inside outs" the ball as well. (hands way before the barrel of the bat.)

guillensdisciple
11-20-2008, 11:36 PM
I haven't read every page but does anyone know if the Sox will be having a press conference tomorrow to introduce Dayan to the media.. I saw that he will be in Chicago tomorrow...

Physical first, then the introduction.

doublem23
11-20-2008, 11:36 PM
I haven't read every page but does anyone know if the Sox will be having a press conference tomorrow to introduce Dayan to the media.. I saw that he will be in Chicago tomorrow...

I would think so... BTW, it's on whitesox.com now, too. I only skimmed over the few pages of slap fighting, but I know early on someone was waiting for more confirmation than just the Trib.

Official.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081120&content_id=3687188&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

kittle42
11-20-2008, 11:37 PM
I love it how many experts there are talking about a guy that hardly anyone has seen.

You haven't noticed them doing the same thing about Getz and Poreda the last month? It's all ridiculous.

kittle42
11-20-2008, 11:38 PM
I wouldn't say that the way you spell somebody's name is optional.

It is for a lot of people here, though that makes me the idiot, because "we're not in school, man...."

hi im skot
11-20-2008, 11:39 PM
I wouldn't say that the way you spell somebody's name is optional.

The teal is implied.

Daver
11-20-2008, 11:39 PM
I wouldn't say that the way you spell somebody's name is optional.

Tell that to the many members here that continue to do it.

Corlose 15
11-20-2008, 11:40 PM
Tell that to the many members here that continue to do it.

I blame the schools.:cool:

guillensdisciple
11-20-2008, 11:42 PM
I blame the schools.:cool:

I blame the lack of respect some people have for one another, or the very lazy attitude people have gained over the past 10 years or so.

Daver
11-20-2008, 11:47 PM
I know it's not my fault.

Vernam
11-21-2008, 12:00 AM
I don't want to be a killjoy, but can he run? I'll be way more excited when we add a couple of guys who don't clog the bases, preferably one of whom can play CF.

Vernam

DrCrawdad
11-21-2008, 12:08 AM
I don't want to be a killjoy, but can he run? I'll be way more excited when we add a couple of guys who don't clog the bases, preferably one of whom can play CF.

Vernam

I'd bet at this point Viciedo can run faster than Crede, Thome, AJ, Dye and Konerko.

Sockinchisox
11-21-2008, 12:12 AM
Rogers' new article says it's a $10 mil contract.

Daver
11-21-2008, 12:13 AM
I'd bet at this point Viciedo can run faster than Crede, Thome, AJ, Dye and Konerko.

AJ is one of the best baserunners the White Sox have. There is also a reason Anderson was always used as a pinch runner, he is a good baserunner.

oeo
11-21-2008, 12:13 AM
BTW, White Sox Wednesdays appear to have changed to White Sox Thursdays. That's two in a row.

guillensdisciple
11-21-2008, 12:22 AM
BTW, White Sox Wednesdays appear to have changed to White Sox Thursdays. That's two in a row.

Huh?

pmck003
11-21-2008, 12:25 AM
It is for a lot of people here, though that makes me the idiot, because "we're not in school, man...."

Tell that to the many members here that continue to do it.

I blame the lack of respect some people have for one another, or the very lazy attitude people have gained over the past 10 years or so.

This happens to me all the time when I'm in line for food or ordering out. Employees that may not be used to spelling or hearing English names such as mine sometimes makes a mistake in the spelling or pronunciation. I assume they are disrespecting me and are uneducated; the best way to handle it is to make snide remarks about their mistake in front of everyone.

jcw218
11-21-2008, 12:27 AM
Huh?

Starting with winning the World Series in 2005, a lot of the offseason announcements have been made on a Wednesday ie Thome for Rowand was announced on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving.

DrCrawdad
11-21-2008, 12:28 AM
AJ is one of the best baserunners the White Sox have. There is also a reason Anderson was always used as a pinch runner, he is a good baserunner.

I agree. AJ is not fast but I agree he is a very good baserunner. Heck, AJ is a very smart baseball player.

The Sox, according to Mr. Rogers, have the inside track on two other Cuban defectors, left-hander Noel Arguellez and shortstop Jose Iglesias.

Scottiehaswheels
11-21-2008, 12:31 AM
The Sox, according to Mr. Rogers, have the inside track on two other Cuban defectors, left-hander Noel Arguellez and shortstop Jose Iglesias.Not disagreeing with you or anything, but on the shortstop; what's the point? Are we not pretty well set for MI for '10 and beyond?

DrCrawdad
11-21-2008, 12:37 AM
Not disagreeing with you or anything, but on the shortstop; what's the point? Are we not pretty well set for MI for '10 and beyond?

You're right, the Sox do seem set as far as middle infielders.

chaerulez
11-21-2008, 12:38 AM
This happens to me all the time when I'm in line for food or ordering out. Employees that may not be used to spelling or hearing English names such as mine sometimes makes a mistake in the spelling or pronunciation. I assume they are disrespecting me and are uneducated; the best way to handle it is to make snide remarks about their mistake in front of everyone.

I assume you are being sarcastic, but I think everyone is talking about people who grew up here and should have a grasp on the English language.

voodoochile
11-21-2008, 01:00 AM
I assume you are being sarcastic, but I think everyone is talking about people who grew up here and should have a grasp on the English language.

And everyone here is two clicks away from the proper spelling of everyone who is on the team or has appeared with the team in any given season...

one (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chw)

two (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/batting?team=chw)

kittle42
11-21-2008, 01:12 AM
And everyone here is two clicks away from the proper spelling of everyone who is on the team or has appeared with the team in any given season...

one (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chw)

two (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/batting?team=chw)

THANK YOU! It's lazy-ass bull****.

LoveYourSuit
11-21-2008, 01:19 AM
I don't want to be a killjoy, but can he run? I'll be way more excited when we add a couple of guys who don't clog the bases, preferably one of whom can play CF.

Vernam

:rolleyes: Right, because this is the last move Kenny has for this offseason.

No one even knows if he can run or not, and some are calling him fat based on a low quality You Tube Video.

Besides, other than Chone Figgins, how many 3Bs do you know who can run?

And if he is here for 5 years and you start losing 1 base clogger/power hitter per season (Thome '09, Dye '10, Konerko '11), isn't nice to see Kenny making an attempt to replenish the power numbers that are being lost each season?

btrain929
11-21-2008, 01:48 AM
:rolleyes: Right, because this is the last move Kenny has for this offseason.

No one even knows if he can run or not, and some are calling him fat based on a low quality You Tube Video.

Besides, other than Chone Figgins, how many 3Bs do you know who can run?

And if he is here for 5 years and you start losing 1 base clogger/power hitter per season (Thome '09, Dye '10, Konerko '11), isn't nice to see Kenny making an attempt to replenish the power numbers that are being lost each season?

It's very nice to see.

LoveYourSuit
11-21-2008, 02:08 AM
It's very nice to see.

You can almost guranteed both Thome and Dye are gone after this 2009 season. So 2010 you will be looking at something like this:

2. Beckham 2B
3. Ramirez SS
4. Quentin LF
5. Konerko 1B
6. Viciendo 3B


That is very nice and in-expensive even with Konerko's $12 million.

That leaves your with big $$$ to spend on pitching.

If we can find a long term solution for CF and lead off hitter this season, then we can be set.

rustysurf83
11-21-2008, 02:18 AM
You can almost guranteed both Thome and Dye are gone after this 2009 season. So 2010 you will be looking at something like this:

2. Beckham 2B
3. Ramirez SS
4. Quentin LF
5. Konerko 1B
6. Viciendo 3B


That is very nice and in-expensive even with Konerko's $12 million.

That leaves your with big $$$ to spend on pitching.

If we can find a long term solution for CF and lead off hitter this season, then we can be set.
TCM: All Star
TCQ: All Star
PK: Probably All star
Beckham: If what we have seen in NCAA and AFL is indicative this kid will be an all star in 2-3 years
Viciendo: I don't know this could be another Borchard or it could be a M. Cabrera....**** it I like our chances!

Point being...this team could be ****ing unbelievable for a long, long time. I am ****ing excited and all Sox fans should be as well. This is the very beginning of KW's offseason, and I believe we have a serious shot at another WS next year.:bandance:

voodoochile
11-21-2008, 02:22 AM
You can almost guranteed both Thome and Dye are gone after this 2009 season. So 2010 you will be looking at something like this:

2. Beckham 2B
3. Ramirez SS
4. Quentin LF
5. Konerko 1B
6. Viciendo 3B


That is very nice and in-expensive even with Konerko's $12 million.

That leaves your with big $$$ to spend on pitching.

If we can find a long term solution for CF and lead off hitter this season, then we can be set.

I said this in the other thread, but I can see the Sox signing Dye to a 3/24 contract when this one is up. They will still have tons to spend between the loss of Thome and Contreras and shortly thereafter Vazquez and that's before calculating in any increases. Save legs and money re-sign Dye and PK when their contracts are up and have them split time at DH and in the field.

btrain929
11-21-2008, 02:28 AM
You can almost guranteed both Thome and Dye are gone after this 2009 season.

Dye has a $12 million dollar mutual option for 2010. If Thome is gone and Dye is still raking, I can easily see them bringing Dye back at that price.

soxfanreggie
11-21-2008, 03:34 AM
Welcome aboard Mr. Viciedo! :D:

BadBobbyJenks
11-21-2008, 04:35 AM
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=1141

Just in case no one saw that back in June.

Frater Perdurabo
11-21-2008, 05:46 AM
You can almost guranteed both Thome and Dye are gone after this 2009 season. So 2010 you will be looking at something like this:

2. Beckham 2B
3. Ramirez SS
4. Quentin LF
5. Konerko 1B
6. Viciendo 3B


That is very nice and in-expensive even with Konerko's $12 million.

That leaves your with big $$$ to spend on pitching.

If we can find a long term solution for CF and lead off hitter this season, then we can be set.

The sentence you wrote that I bolded is the most important part. Just make sure to spend that pitching money wisely.

esbrechtel
11-21-2008, 09:07 AM
Any other sources confirm this?

kittle42
11-21-2008, 09:13 AM
Any other sources confirm this?

"Mr. Owl? How many sources does it take for WSI to believe something?"

esbrechtel
11-21-2008, 09:15 AM
Ha, how soon we forget that last year Torii Hunter was "signed." Sorry, I do not believe everything I read on a message board...

esbrechtel
11-21-2008, 09:16 AM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081120&content_id=3687188&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

This I do believe.....sweet! :bandance:

Scottiehaswheels
11-21-2008, 09:17 AM
Any other sources confirm this?Whitesox.com, both papers, ESPN, etc.

Rockabilly
11-21-2008, 09:21 AM
in Phil Rogers column this morning he mention that the Sox might be signing 2 other cuban players as well..

34 Inch Stick
11-21-2008, 09:27 AM
Dye has a $12 million dollar mutual option for 2010. If Thome is gone and Dye is still raking, I can easily see them bringing Dye back at that price.

If it is a mutual option, Dye would be the one I'd expect to exercise it.

kittle42
11-21-2008, 09:28 AM
in Phil Rogers column this morning he mention that the Sox might be signing 2 other cuban players as well..

Can they hand roll crepes for Izzy Mendelbaum?

seventyseven
11-21-2008, 09:30 AM
Does anyone know the length of the deal?

Scottiehaswheels
11-21-2008, 09:32 AM
Does anyone know the length of the deal?All reports have been 4 years so far... The money varies slightly, Phil Rogers says $10 mil, every other source says $11.

Mr.1Dog
11-21-2008, 09:38 AM
Sweet! Hopefully he pans out to be a great player.:bandance:

HomeFish
11-21-2008, 09:46 AM
The two other Cuban players mentioned the the Rogers article are Noel Arguellez and Jose Iglesias. Anyone know anything about them?

CashMan
11-21-2008, 09:53 AM
The two other Cuban players mentioned the the Rogers article are Noel Arguellez and Jose Iglesias. Anyone know anything about them?

Is Kenny getting the inside track on signing these guys because of Jose and Ramirez? And if so, what happens when Jose is not resigned after this year?

Rockabilly
11-21-2008, 09:53 AM
The two other Cuban players mentioned the the Rogers article are Noel Arguellez and Jose Iglesias. Anyone know anything about them?


http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=1457

Flight #24
11-21-2008, 09:54 AM
All reports have been 4 years so far... The money varies slightly, Phil Rogers says $10 mil, every other source says $11.

I thought the S-T said $11 / 5yrs.

CashMan
11-21-2008, 09:54 AM
The two other Cuban players mentioned the the Rogers article are Noel Arguellez and Jose Iglesias. Anyone know anything about them?

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=1457

Scottiehaswheels
11-21-2008, 09:57 AM
I thought the S-T said $11 / 5yrs.It said that last night but reading Cowley now, he doesn't mention years so I think he realizes that was probably an errant call.

palehozenychicty
11-21-2008, 10:01 AM
I had a feeling that they were going to get him, and it's a good move. Just let him play and see what happens. :cool:

pythons007
11-21-2008, 10:18 AM
Can they hand roll crepes for Izzy Mendelbaum?

I believe those were Dominicans.

jabrch
11-21-2008, 10:18 AM
Not disagreeing with you or anything, but on the shortstop; what's the point? Are we not pretty well set for MI for '10 and beyond?


When we have too many good MI, and have to start giving them away, then I'll start passing on them. Since we have had a huge gap in MI during most of my life, I will always be OK with adding more young organizational talent at these positions and worry about where to play them later.

LoveYourSuit
11-21-2008, 10:19 AM
in Phil Rogers column this morning he mention that the Sox might be signing 2 other cuban players as well..


I love the fact that Kenny is building this relationship with Torres and Cuban players. He might be getting first crack at all the guys that come from over there because of how well we have treated them here. Having Ozzie helps too.

The biggest bonus is the fact that the talent is almost as good as the Japaneese imports but yet 1/4 of the price.


Now getting these two other prospect, then I can almost see Vicendo making a stop down at AA or AAA because he will have two other guys to relate to and be with. Let's remember, Alexei had no one and might have been the reason they preferred to stick him in the big club to be with Jose.

WHILEPITCH
11-21-2008, 10:20 AM
Get Argullez and then have someone in the minors that Viciedo can have as support in case his career doesnt take off.

Man, it would suck to defect, leave family behind and then not make it in MLB. Have to get a real job (not so great job) or something, ouch.

kittle42
11-21-2008, 10:28 AM
I believe those were Dominicans.

That was the problem - they rolled them too tightly!

EMachine10
11-21-2008, 10:50 AM
That was the problem - they rolled them too tightly!
"So you just need somebody to roll the crepes??"

".....Yeah."

cws05champ
11-21-2008, 10:52 AM
I love all these players the Sox are picking up but it will kill the spell checkers on this board:

Wilsen Betimite, Jeff Marzquez, Dayman Viciendo, Jonny Noonez.....don't get me started on the other Cubans Nole Arguilliaz and Julio Iglacier.
:whiteflag::stars:

NLaloosh
11-21-2008, 11:27 AM
The two other Cuban players mentioned the the Rogers article are Noel Arguellez and Jose Iglesias. Anyone know anything about them?

I have Iglesias album. I hear he's coming out with new Christmas music soon.

soxfanreggie
11-21-2008, 11:31 AM
Just got a text from ESPN.com that the terms were 4 years, $11 million. Any way we can just add 4 years onto Alexei's deal for $11 mil :D:?

rustysurf83
11-21-2008, 12:02 PM
Is Kenny getting the inside track on signing these guys because of Jose and Ramirez? And if so, what happens when Jose is not resigned after this year?

If thats the case...keep JC on out of the bullpen or as a "consultant" (if he would agree to it of course). I think its highly likely that an established Cuban base on the White Sox does give them an inside track. Think about if you were taking a job in Asia, would you rather work in a company that employed other Americans or one where you would be the first?