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Sockinchisox
11-19-2008, 12:46 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/11/17/bp.alcentral/?cnn=yes

Says that Sox hot target is Hudson and that we're still an 87-90 win team without any big improvements.

Marqhead
11-19-2008, 12:53 PM
Pretty fair analysis of our current situation IMO.

kittle42
11-19-2008, 12:57 PM
Pretty fair analysis of our current situation IMO.

Agreed.

sox1970
11-19-2008, 01:00 PM
Orlando Hudson is not a likely target.

Dewayne Wise a possible option in CF? No, he's not.

russ99
11-19-2008, 01:10 PM
Kenny didn't clear all this payroll for nothing. I'd say there's a 75% chance we land Hudson or Furcal. I also think he learned from last year's mistake with Hunter and nothing will be leaked publicly until a signing is announced.

He's certainly not going to settle on the team as it is now...

I also am glad someone else agrees we need a CF upgrade over Anderson and/or Wise.

voodoochile
11-19-2008, 01:25 PM
Orlando Hudson is not a likely target.

Dewayne Wise a possible option in CF? No, he's not.

Agreed. If nothing else changes expect the Sox to open the season with a platoon of Owens/BA in CF, Getz at 2B and Fields at 3B with both Nix and Betamit as backups/stopgaps. Throw in a backup catcher and the roster is pretty much set - assuming the Sox carry 12 pitchers. OG might prefer Wise to Owens in that scenario but it would be up to him and KW to work that out.

I don't think the Sox are done yet though. I expect KW to sign/acquire a veteran IF or CF and hopefully a veteran starter even if it's just a retread on his final legs.

Beckham's surprising and insane development curve at present makes him a possible mid-season call up if everything else falters. With Richard showing signs of being ready, he'll probably land the long reliever role on the club and of course there's always the chance Contreras will come back in August and provide a spark.

If the Sox trade either Getz or Fields it will be for a guy who can play their position. I think KW would be more inclined to go after a 3B because if he lands a 2B or SS with a 3+ year contract, it merely blocks Beckham unless they move Beckham to 3rd.

I for one would like to see Fields get his shot coming fresh and healthy out of ST, but I know that I'm in the minority and I am sure the Sox are looking at him with a jaded viewpoint at present.

Next year it gets really fun with the loss of big contracts Thome, Dye and Contreras and freeing up close to $35M to spend.

If KW manages to both build for the future this year AND add a few solid pieces this year, he'll be sitting pretty to go after some serious big talent in 2009 off-season and open a potential 4 year window with the Sox as an AL favorite.

Tragg
11-19-2008, 01:51 PM
Did Sports Illustrated buy BP or something, or do they regularly put some articles in SI?

Substantively I think they're right - we developed 3 all star quality young players last year. And our minor leagues look like they will start being more fruitful.

Why is Wise on the 40 man? MacDougal has more baseball skill than he does. That he's still on there is awfully scary.

Eddo144
11-19-2008, 01:53 PM
Dewayne Wise a possible option in CF? No, he's not.
Oh, how I wish that were true. Wise shouldn't have been an option anywhere in 2008, but Ozzie loved trotting him out there. Why do you assume anything has changed?

sox1970
11-19-2008, 02:00 PM
Oh, how I wish that were true. Wise shouldn't have been an option anywhere in 2008, but Ozzie loved trotting him out there. Why do you assume anything has changed?

Wise was used when Swisher sucked and Quentin was injured. You don't go into a season with Wise in your plans to start.

rdwj
11-19-2008, 02:04 PM
You don't go into a season with Wise in your plans to start.

...unless you plan on being a very bad baseball team

Tragg
11-19-2008, 02:21 PM
Wise was used when Swisher sucked and Quentin was injured. You don't go into a season with Wise in your plans to start.
Or on the bench.

btrain929
11-19-2008, 02:41 PM
It's been very quiet on the White Sox trade rumor front the past few days...
It's Wednesday...
I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'...

Eddo144
11-19-2008, 02:54 PM
Wise was used when Swisher sucked and Quentin was injured. You don't go into a season with Wise in your plans to start.
I agree and I'm wasn't advocating Wise starting.

But remember, Ozzie started Wise in game one of the playoffs, when he had both Swisher and Anderson to start instead. Obviously, Ozzie doesn't share our feelings.

voodoochile
11-19-2008, 02:55 PM
It's been very quiet on the White Sox trade rumor front the past few days...
It's Wednesday...

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'...

And I had a dream last night that when I woke up and logged on the first thing that hit me was that there were a record number of posters on line by like a 2-1 margin over the previous high...

Wouldn't that be nice...:D:

btrain929
11-19-2008, 02:56 PM
I agree and I'm wasn't advocating Wise starting.

But remember, Ozzie started Wise in game one of the playoffs, when he had both Swisher and Anderson to start instead. Obviously, Ozzie doesn't share our feelings.

Wise did hit a 3-run homer in Game 1 of the playoffs....

oeo
11-19-2008, 02:59 PM
Oh, how I wish that were true. Wise shouldn't have been an option anywhere in 2008, but Ozzie loved trotting him out there. Why do you assume anything has changed?

:lol:

1)There were no other options.
2)Wise was actually a big reason we made the postseason. Not only that, he actually produced very well in the postseason.

Take the blinders off, Wise helped us a ton in 2008.

This guy said he's worried that Anderson or Wise might be used as a last resort, kind of like Erstad a couple of years ago. He didn't say Wise was in their plans, but that he might come into their plans if they can't find another outfielder.

Lukin13
11-19-2008, 03:23 PM
I could definitely be wrong but I will bet anyone willing to give me even money, that the White Sox DO NOT sign Hudson.

Eddo144
11-19-2008, 03:38 PM
:lol:

1)There were no other options.
2)Wise was actually a big reason we made the postseason. Not only that, he actually produced very well in the postseason.

Take the blinders off, Wise helped us a ton in 2008.
Seriously? In what way did he help the White Sox (he sure didn't help you or I) "a ton"? His .248 average? His .293 on-base percentage? The brutal instincts he displayed in the field?

He had six home runs and went nine-for-nine in stolen base attempts in 57 games. That's not bad. But that's about all he did well.

sox1970
11-19-2008, 03:42 PM
Seriously? In what way did he help the White Sox (he sure didn't help you or I) "a ton"? His .248 average? His .293 on-base percentage? The brutal instincts he displayed in the field?

He had six home runs and went nine-for-nine in stolen base attempts in 57 games. That's not bad. But that's about all he did well.

Wise hit a huge grand slam against the Tigers, I can tell you that!

Nobody is saying they want him as a starter. But as a 4th or 5th outfielder, he's not that bad.

FedEx227
11-19-2008, 03:42 PM
Seriously? In what way did he help the White Sox (he sure didn't help you or I) "a ton"? His .248 average? His .293 on-base percentage? The brutal instincts he displayed in the field?

He had six home runs and went nine-for-nine in stolen base attempts in 57 games. That's not bad. But that's about all he did well.

But he was fast, potentially grindy and hit a grand slam that one game.

End of story. :D:

oeo
11-19-2008, 03:46 PM
Seriously? In what way did he help the White Sox (he sure didn't help you or I) "a ton"? His .248 average? His .293 on-base percentage? The brutal instincts he displayed in the field?

He had six home runs and went nine-for-nine in stolen base attempts in 57 games. That's not bad. But that's about all he did well.

Outside of stepping up with a pretty good bat in July and August when Swisher was really scuffling, in our final weeks...
-His legs tied the the makeup game against the Tigers.
-His ALDS Game 1 with the big 3-run homer.
-His ALDS Game 3 performance.

He also had a couple of big homeruns earlier. Who did we have that was going to do better? And don't tell me Brian Anderson because that's laughable. Don't tell me Swisher because he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

Eddo144
11-19-2008, 03:51 PM
Outside of stepping up with a pretty good bat in July and August when Swisher was really scuffling, in our final weeks...
-His legs tied the the makeup game against the Tigers.
-His ALDS Game 1 with the big 3-run homer.
-His ALDS Game 3 performance.

He also had a couple of big homeruns earlier. Who did we have that was going to do better? And don't tell me Brian Anderson because that's laughable. Don't tell me Swisher because he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.
Well, the Sox won the Tigers game by six runs, so him tying it didn't really matter in the long run.

The ALDS games are irrelevant, they didn't help us get to the playoffs.

Every player contributes things like that. Hell, even Swisher hit a walk-off home run.

I'd be OK with Wise as a fourth or fifth outfielder under almost any other manager. However, Wise has the one skill, speed, that Ozzie seems to love over all others, so he'd be in the lineup more often than he should be.

kittle42
11-19-2008, 04:01 PM
I'd be OK with Wise as a fourth or fifth outfielder under almost any other manager. However, Wise has the one skill, speed, that Ozzie seems to love over all others, so he'd be in the lineup more often than he should be.

And there's the big problem.

Tragg
11-19-2008, 07:58 PM
Who did we have that was going to do better? And don't tell me Brian Anderson because that's laughable..

He had 2 short periods where he was hot. Otherwise he was terrible. And his D was consistently poor.

He's one of those swing at everything hitters with speed that Ozzie can't resist.
Anderson has far more value than Wise.

Daver
11-19-2008, 08:50 PM
Anderson has far more value than Wise.

To whom?

Ozzie Guillen's White Sox or another MLB team?

CWSpalehoseCWS
11-19-2008, 08:53 PM
Wise was used when Swisher sucked and Quentin was injured. You don't go into a season with Wise in your plans to start.

That's what scares me about next year. As of this point, I think he's our leadoff hitter.

Tragg
11-19-2008, 08:54 PM
To whom?

Ozzie Guillen's White Sox or another MLB team?

On a baseball market.
Put Anderson up for trade and you'll get offers.
Put Wise up for trade and you get nothing.

And on the White Sox, Anderson has more value, imo, even though I know Guillen disagrees.

FedEx227
11-19-2008, 09:26 PM
On a baseball market.
Put Anderson up for trade and you'll get offers.
Put Wise up for trade and you get nothing.

And on the White Sox, Anderson has more value, imo, even though I know Guillen disagrees.

I think he was being sarcastic to an extent.

Wise is 1,000 times more valuable than Anderson on a team managed by Ozzie Guillen.

He's a slap-hitting, speedy, corner outfielder.

champagne030
11-19-2008, 09:30 PM
I think he was being sarcastic to an extent.

Wise is 1,000 times more valuable than Anderson on a team managed by Ozzie Guillen.

He's a slap-hitting, speedy, corner outfielder.

I think you meant to say that Wise is 1000 times more valuable in the mind that is Oswaldo. He's that much and more detrimental to a Sox club managed by Ozzie.

Lillian
11-19-2008, 09:31 PM
Signing Hudson makes no sense to me. He does not fill the need for a lead off hitter, and will want a big long term contract. Beckham would almost certainly be ready way before such a contract would be completed. We've discussed this in other threads, but it is worthwhile repeating.

I don't see how they can afford to trade any starters, unless they get back Major League ready starters in return. Without Contreras they are already one starter short.

Daver
11-19-2008, 09:37 PM
I think he was being sarcastic to an extent.

Wise is 1,000 times more valuable than Anderson on a team managed by Ozzie Guillen.

He's a slap-hitting, speedy, corner outfielder.


You can never have enough corner outfielders, ever.

btrain929
11-19-2008, 09:38 PM
Signing Hudson makes no sense to me. He does not fill the need for a lead off hitter, and will want a big long term contract. Beckham would almost certainly be ready way before such a contract would be completed. We've discussed this in other threads, but it is worthwhile repeating.

I don't see how they can afford to trade any starters, unless they get back Major League ready starters in return. Without Contreras they are already one starter short.

While I agree we probably won't sign Hudson, one of the reasons shouldn't be because a minor league may or may not be ready. If KW feels Hudson will help out team immediately and in the future, you sign him and worry about Beckham later.

sox1970
11-19-2008, 09:42 PM
While I agree we probably won't sign Hudson, one of the reasons shouldn't be because a minor league may or may not be ready. If KW feels Hudson will help out team immediately and in the future, you sign him and worry about Beckham later.

Yeah, let's **** with our future all-star right off the bat. Sounds like a ****ing plan!

Konerko05
11-19-2008, 10:06 PM
Yeah, let's **** with our future all-star right off the bat. Sounds like a ****ing plan!

I ****ing don't see how that's ****ing ****ing with anyone. How is signing a major league player ****ing with a prospect that hasn't even played half a year in the White Sox system? I don't see anything wrong with what btrain said.

I'd rather have a quality player until Beckham is ready. If Beckham proves he is major league ready while Hudson is still under contract, the Sox can always make a trade to open up room for Beckham.

That is a better option than leaving Beckham's spot adaquately filled until Beckham is ready. What if Beckham never actually fulfills his potential? Then the White Sox have wasted years of production waiting for a prospect to pan out. In case you haven't noticed the White Sox are a big market team that won the Central division last year.

sox1970
11-19-2008, 10:18 PM
I ****ing don't see how thats ****ing ****ing with anyone. How is signing a major league player ****ing with a prospect that hasn't even played half a year in the White Sox system? I don't see anything wrong with what btrain said.

I'd rather have a quality player until Beckham is ready. If Beckham proves he is major league ready while Hudson is still under contract, the Sox can always make a trade to open up room for Beckham.

That is a better option than leaving Beckham's spot adaquately filled until Beckham is ready. What if Beckham never actually fulfills his potential? Then the White Sox have wasted years of production waiting for a prospect to pan out. In case you haven't noticed the White Sox are a big market team that won the Central division last year.

Beckham is a middle infielder that's going to be ready in the next year. You don't put years and money in Orlando Hudson, and have Beckham waiting for his chance for 3 years, or moving him to 3B. That would be defeat the purpose of drafting him in the first place. If they didn't want a player to be on the fast track with the 8th pick, they would have drafted a high school catcher.

The better move is to have him in the minors this year with Getz playing 2B, and get a CF that can leadoff.

Konerko05
11-19-2008, 10:27 PM
Beckham is a middle infielder that's going to be ready in the next year. You don't put years and money in Orlando Hudson, and have Beckham waiting for his chance for 3 years, or moving him to 3B. That would be defeat the purpose of drafting him in the first place. If they didn't want a player to be on the fast track with the 8th pick, they would have drafted a high school catcher.

The better move is to have him in the minors this year with Getz playing 2B, and get a CF that can leadoff.

They drafted the best player available at the time. It is your opinion Beckham will be ready in the next year. The kid has only played 14 games in A ball. To already put that much stock into the kid is silly at this point. The Sox should be trying to put the best team on the field.

Will you really be happy with an infield of Fields-Ramirez-Getz next season? Imagine how horrible the defense will be. There is no way a team contends with that infield.

sox1970
11-19-2008, 10:35 PM
They drafted the best player available at the time. It is your opinion Beckham will be ready in the next year. The kid has only played 14 games in A ball. To already put that much stock into the kid is silly at this point. The Sox should be trying to put the best team on the field.

Will you really be happy with an infield of Fields-Ramirez-Getz next season? Imagine how horrible the defense will be. There is no way a team contends with that infield.

It's my opinion and from all the scouting reports in the Arizona Fall League. The kid can play, but the last thing I want to see is the Sox moving him to 3rd base. I guess if they did sign a Hudson or Furcal, that's probably what would happen.

Would I be happy with Fields-Ramirez-Getz? I want Fields traded, so I guess not. But I have no problem with Ramirez and Getz up the middle in 2009. They're not below average fielders, so that would be ok.

CWSpalehoseCWS
11-19-2008, 10:36 PM
Beckham is a middle infielder that's going to be ready in the next year. You don't put years and money in Orlando Hudson, and have Beckham waiting for his chance for 3 years, or moving him to 3B. That would be defeat the purpose of drafting him in the first place. If they didn't want a player to be on the fast track with the 8th pick, they would have drafted a high school catcher.

The better move is to have him in the minors this year with Getz playing 2B, and get a CF that can leadoff.

There is no way you can honestly say that that's 100% accurate. We could easily call him up and have him hit .210 for us in 2010.

btrain929
11-19-2008, 10:40 PM
Yeah, let's **** with our future all-star right off the bat. Sounds like a ****ing plan!

:rolling::rolling::rolling:

I'm glad Konerko05 did the rebuttling for me 'cuz I really didn't feel like combating such a dumb ****ing statement.

kittle42
11-19-2008, 10:47 PM
:rolling::rolling::rolling:

I'm glad Konerko05 did the rebuttling for me 'cuz I really didn't feel like combating such a dumb ****ing statement.

I'm with you two. It's pretty dumb.

sox1970
11-19-2008, 10:49 PM
Think what you want. Time will tell with what the Sox do, and how Beckham performs over the next couple years.

btrain929
11-19-2008, 10:54 PM
Think what you want. Time will tell with what the Sox do, and how Beckham performs over the next couple years.

That's your problem. Go back to my initial post. I already said that I doubt we sign Hudson. I was just trying to explain the reasoning behind it IF Kenny did sign him: because you worry about today today, and tomorrow tomorrow. You don't NOT make a move to better the team in 2009 because something better MIGHT be available in 2010.

doublem23
11-19-2008, 11:01 PM
Beckham is a middle infielder that's going to be ready in the next year. You don't put years and money in Orlando Hudson, and have Beckham waiting for his chance for 3 years, or moving him to 3B. That would be defeat the purpose of drafting him in the first place. If they didn't want a player to be on the fast track with the 8th pick, they would have drafted a high school catcher.

The better move is to have him in the minors this year with Getz playing 2B, and get a CF that can leadoff.

Beckham will not be ready to play everyday in the Majors in 2009.

Daver
11-19-2008, 11:01 PM
Beckham is a middle infielder that's going to be ready in the next year. You don't put years and money in Orlando Hudson, and have Beckham waiting for his chance for 3 years, or moving him to 3B. That would be defeat the purpose of drafting him in the first place. If they didn't want a player to be on the fast track with the 8th pick, they would have drafted a high school catcher.

The better move is to have him in the minors this year with Getz playing 2B, and get a CF that can leadoff.

Yes, the White Sox have a long history of rushing high draft picks to the big league club and watching them fail from lack of preparation, why change that pattern now when they have a success streak going?

Joe Borchard, rushed, failed, check.

Jon Rauch, rushed, failed, check.

Mike Caruso, rushed, failed, check.

Kip Wells, rushed, failed, check.

Mark Johnson, rushed, failed, check.

Kris Honel, rushed, failed, check.

Now that is an impressive waste of talent.

oeo
11-19-2008, 11:05 PM
Yes, the White Sox have a long history of rushing high draft picks to the big league club and watching them fail from lack of preparation, why change that pattern now when they have a success streak going?

Joe Borchard, rushed, failed, check.

Jon Rauch, rushed, failed, check.

Mike Caruso, rushed, failed, check.

Kip Wells, rushed, failed, check.

Mark Johnson, rushed, failed, check.

Kris Honel, rushed, failed, check.

Now that is an impressive waste of talent.

Maybe you just suck at judging major league talent? :shrug:

Maybe some of them were rushed. It's also highly likely that they just were not good enough to succeed at the major league level. So stop acting like this theory means anything.

sox1970
11-19-2008, 11:11 PM
Yes, the White Sox have a long history of rushing high draft picks to the big league club and watching them fail from lack of preparation, why change that pattern now when they have a success streak going?

Joe Borchard, rushed, failed, check.

Jon Rauch, rushed, failed, check.

Mike Caruso, rushed, failed, check.

Kip Wells, rushed, failed, check.

Mark Johnson, rushed, failed, check.

Kris Honel, rushed, failed, check.

Now that is an impressive waste of talent.

Honel never made the majors. I guess he was rushed to AA. :rolleyes:

chisox77
11-19-2008, 11:16 PM
BP's assessment is right on. But the White Sox will feature a slightly different lineup when the 2009 season starts.


:cool:

WhiteSox5187
11-19-2008, 11:17 PM
Yes, the White Sox have a long history of rushing high draft picks to the big league club and watching them fail from lack of preparation, why change that pattern now when they have a success streak going?

Joe Borchard, rushed, failed, check.

Jon Rauch, rushed, failed, check.

Mike Caruso, rushed, failed, check.

Kip Wells, rushed, failed, check.

Mark Johnson, rushed, failed, check.

Kris Honel, rushed, failed, check.

Now that is an impressive waste of talent.
Maybe they were rushed but if they were so damn good wouldn't they have made the necessary adustments and still be playing today? Or at least longer than they did? I think you could give a guy like Caruso all the time in the world in the minors and he would still suck. Plus, keep in mind the guy hit .300 his first year up, so how do you explain his regression then? But I don't know. I think the reason those guys sucked has more to do with the fact that they weren't very good baseball players rather than them being rushed.

Bill Naharodny
11-19-2008, 11:27 PM
Or on the bench.

Wait a minute. What's with all the hate for Wise as a bench player or on the 40-man? He's certainly not a starter, but the guy is a useful player to have on a team -- steals a base, not a bad pinch-hitter, and can play all the outfield positions -- not great out there for sure, but he's not a total butcher. I'm not sure I understand why so much abuse for a guy that played a pretty nice role in a number of key wins last year.

Daver
11-19-2008, 11:28 PM
Honel never made the majors. I guess he was rushed to AA. :rolleyes:

He was drafted out of HS and never completed a full season at any level before being moved.

I defer to your superior knowledge, I don't know what I am talking about.

sox1970
11-19-2008, 11:33 PM
He was drafted out of HS and never completed a full season at any level before being moved.

I defer to your superior knowledge, I don't know what I am talking about.

So Honel getting one or two starts at the next level each year is considered rushing? So he was rushed? And it had nothing to do with his bad arm? Ok.

Daver
11-19-2008, 11:43 PM
So Honel getting one or two starts at the next level each year is considered rushing? So he was rushed? And it had nothing to do with his bad arm? Ok.

His arm was fine till he went from one level to another midseason. Coincidence? Perhaps. I watched him pitch four years of HS ball and he never had a single injury issue.

I defer to your superior knowledge of minor league pitching, you obviously know far more than I do.

FedEx227
11-19-2008, 11:44 PM
I defer to why the hell do you feel the need to personally attack people whenever their opinion differs from yours?

Just say what you have to say and let it go, there's no need for the other stuff. In my mind you're for the right on this topic, the Sox have bombed many highly-regarded prospect in these past 10 years. But you turn people away by bashing other posters. You're right in this, so make your point and done.

Lip Man 1
11-19-2008, 11:45 PM
For years I've felt the Sox rushed prospects up and around without having learned the needed tools to succeed in the big leagues.

I understand I'm old fashioned by if quality major league pitchers like Gary Peters and Joe Horlen could spend literally years in the Sox farm system learing how to pitch, before they got a chance, I don't understand why this "rush" to bring first and second round picks up to the bigs in two years or less.

They can stay in the minors for six years before they can declare for free agency. It would do a lot of these guys a ton of good to spend three years in the minors and actually learn how to throw a breaking ball, learn how to take a pitch, learn how to go the other way, learn how to bunt the friggin' baseball.

Very, VERY few guys are so good they don't need to learn the little things that make the difference between a good career and a failed cup of coffee.

A-Rod, Al Kaline, Stan Musial....very VERY few guys don't have to spend a day in the minors. Those guys were Hall of Famers (or will be).

I seriously dobut any of the kids in the Sox farm system now or in the past decade were in that class.

In this regard I agree totally with Daver. Sit them down there and let them learn. If they (or their agents) don't like it, to damn bad.

Lip

gosox41
11-19-2008, 11:47 PM
Yes, the White Sox have a long history of rushing high draft picks to the big league club and watching them fail from lack of preparation, why change that pattern now when they have a success streak going?

Joe Borchard, rushed, failed, check.

Jon Rauch, rushed, failed, check.

Mike Caruso, rushed, failed, check.

Kip Wells, rushed, failed, check.

Mark Johnson, rushed, failed, check.

Kris Honel, rushed, failed, check.

Now that is an impressive waste of talent.

Some of these guys were going to fail even if they spent enough time in the minors. Kip Wells always lacked guts, hard to believe he'd find some in the minors. Borchard was his own worst enemy mentally and would beat himself up.

I don't think Honel was rushed, but he blew his arm out so it's a moot point as he never failed in the majors.

Rauch turned out to be a pretty good reliever. I know he wasn't full recovered when he had his labrum surgery with the sox and that added to his failure. Plus I thought the Sox traded him because they didn't like his attitude.

Daver
11-19-2008, 11:51 PM
I defer to why the hell do you feel the need to personally attack people whenever their opinion differs from yours?


I personally attacked who?

Tragg
11-20-2008, 12:07 AM
Wait a minute. What's with all the hate for Wise as a bench player or on the 40-man? He's certainly not a starter, but the guy is a useful player to have on a team -- steals a base, not a bad pinch-hitter, and can play all the outfield positions -- not great out there for sure, but he's not a total butcher. I'm not sure I understand why so much abuse for a guy that played a pretty nice role in a number of key wins last year.
OBP under .300, not good defensively. We're pencilled in now to have 2 bench spots for utility infielders.
Is speed worth a bench spot?

re rushed prospects: Danny Wright. I'm not sure that Rauch failed, exactly; at least from a physical standpoint.

oeo
11-20-2008, 12:11 AM
I defer to your superior knowledge of minor league pitching, you obviously know far more than I do.

Maybe he does? :dunno:

What makes your opinion so high and mighty?

Daver
11-20-2008, 12:21 AM
Maybe he does? :dunno:

What makes your opinion so high and mighty?

I deferred, is that hard for you to understand? Would you prefer I use simpler words?

doublem23
11-20-2008, 12:31 AM
His arm was fine till he went from one level to another midseason. Coincidence? Perhaps. I watched him pitch four years of HS ball and he never had a single injury issue.

I defer to your superior knowledge of minor league pitching, you obviously know far more than I do.

There's no chance of a coincidence that his arm fell off when he started facing more difficult hitters than the Catholic League offered?

Your list of rushed and failed Sox prospects also coincides with the time period when the Sox were notorious for making "safe, lower ceiling picks." Maybe we were just picking ****ty players?

OTOH, Jon Garland made his MLB debut 3 years and 1 month after the Cubs selected him in the 1st round of the Amateur Draft (that is about the same amount of time Mark Johnson and Jon Rauch had to season in the minors). OK, he's never fully lived to his potential, but he has been an above average MLB starter for most of his career. The only difference is he was selected by another team, who may have been more concerned with talent instead of safety.

oeo
11-20-2008, 12:34 AM
I deferred, is that hard for you to understand? Would you prefer I use simpler words?

You "deferred" and then when on with some crap about him obviously knowing more. Uh...sarcasm. And if that's not what you were getting at, then maybe you should have left the last part out. :shrug:

BTW, this is not a personal attack? You think you need to use 'simpler' words because I'm stupid, or what?

kittle42
11-20-2008, 12:35 AM
I defer to why the hell do you feel the need to personally attack people whenever their opinion differs from yours?

Just say what you have to say and let it go, there's no need for the other stuff. In my mind you're for the right on this topic, the Sox have bombed many highly-regarded prospect in these past 10 years. But you turn people away by bashing other posters. You're right in this, so make your point and done.

There was once a day when insulting Daver was an auto-ban. So see, Daver has lightened up!

oeo
11-20-2008, 12:40 AM
There was once a day when insulting Daver was an auto-ban. So see, Daver has lightened up!

Maybe that's why people kiss his ass and agree with his opinion even though he never expands on anything?

btrain929
11-20-2008, 01:39 AM
I defer to your superior knowledge of minor league pitching, you obviously know far more than I do.

I deferred, is that hard for you to understand?

No, you didn't.

Your first statement was extremely sarcastic and teal-implied to make that other poster feel like an incompetent piece of **** who is lucky to be posting in the same thread as you. Now if that wasn't your intention (which I'm sure it was), then it still doesn't matter because that's how it came across to about 80% of the readers going thru this thread (that's a SAFE approximation). Don't believe me? Take a poll...

whitesox901
11-20-2008, 01:51 AM
:popcorn:

Zisk77
11-20-2008, 08:16 AM
Actually i don't think any of the players on Daver's ist were rushed. In fact I remember most of them being called up in a sept. option the previous year and then slowly being used in the majors as a back up or pinch hitter. Heck rausch is a solid reliever now.

Now, Clayton richard was rushed. So was Ventura & Sosa. Unfortunately we didn't rush the big Hurt fast enough. :angry:

Lillian
11-20-2008, 08:42 AM
Regarding this issue of what to do about a second baseman, with Beckham expected to be the future:
Why does the choice have to be between signing a player to a expensive long term contract, or settling for below average performance, while waiting for the arrival of a highly regarded prospect?
It doesn't have to be one or the other. If neither Nix or Getz are not deemed adequate, then why not get someone who is a year away from free agency like Roberts, or sign an older free agent to a one or two year deal?
That allows for the hole to be filled without committing a lot of years and money, when you expect a potential impact player to be able to soon fill the hole at a low cost for years.

At any rate, Hudson still would not fill the bigger need, which is for a speedy lead off hitter.

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 08:46 AM
Regarding this issue of what to do about a second baseman, with Beckham expected to be the future:
Why does the choice have to be between signing a player to a expensive long term contract, or settling for below average performance, while waiting for the arrival of a highly regarded prospect?
It doesn't have to be one or the other. If neither Nix or Getz are not deemed adequate, then why not get someone who is a year away from free agency like Roberts, or sign an older free agent to a one or two year deal?
That allows for the hole to be filled without committing a lot of years and money, when you expect a potential impact player to be able to soon fill the hole at a low cost for years.

At any rate, Hudson still would not fill the bigger need, which is for a speedy lead off hitter.
He's a good hitter. That's the most important thing.

Lillian
11-20-2008, 09:05 AM
He's a good hitter. That's the most important thing.

Yes, providing the Sox can then make another acquisiton to fill the lead off spot.

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 09:08 AM
Yes, providing the Sox can then make another acquisiton to fill the lead off spot.
Having a good hitter is the most important thing. Speed is not the most important tool.

munchman33
11-20-2008, 09:17 AM
Having a good hitter is the most important thing. Speed is not the most important tool.

But it is JUST as important at that position. And if you're not going to get on base at a .370+ clip, you need plus speed.

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 09:27 AM
But it is JUST as important at that position. And if you're not going to get on base at a .370+ clip, you need plus speed.
What is this arbitrary .370 crap? Just get on base. You don't sacrifice the ability to get on base for speed. That's ridiculous.

hellview
11-20-2008, 11:34 AM
His arm was fine till he went from one level to another midseason. Coincidence? Perhaps. I watched him pitch four years of HS ball and he never had a single injury issue.

I defer to your superior knowledge of minor league pitching, you obviously know far more than I do.

Hahahahaha...you saw him in high school, what a pathetic argument.

Daver you really need some new material, this **** you keep pumping out is getting old.

voodoochile
11-20-2008, 11:50 AM
Hahahahaha...you saw him in high school, what a pathetic argument.

Daver you really need some new material, this **** you keep pumping out is getting old.

Well that's enough of that...

Nellie_Fox
11-20-2008, 02:21 PM
Hahahahaha...you saw him in high school, what a pathetic argument.

Daver you really need some new material, this **** you keep pumping out is getting old.And you making your posts personal is getting old.