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View Full Version : Coco Crisp traded to the Royals


Rockabilly
11-19-2008, 10:08 AM
According to Brian Mc Rae

hopefully the Sox can get Dejesus now

JorgeFabregas
11-19-2008, 10:10 AM
What would the Royals want with Crisp? Where's going to play? :scratch:

Craig Grebeck
11-19-2008, 10:11 AM
Damn. I really wouldn't have minded him out of all the slap-hitting options.

DeJesus is moving to a corner, I believe. He sucks in CF.

NLaloosh
11-19-2008, 10:12 AM
The Red Sox came out well on this deal. It's too bad the Sox couldn't get him.

Rockabilly
11-19-2008, 10:12 AM
the red sox got Ramon Ramirez

munchman33
11-19-2008, 10:13 AM
We need to move on Taveras now.

Rockabilly
11-19-2008, 10:13 AM
Damn. I really wouldn't have minded him out of all the slap-hitting options.

DeJesus is moving to a corner, I believe. He sucks in CF.


I still think Dye is going to be traded .. So I would have DeJesus playing LF while Carlos moves over to RF

Craig Grebeck
11-19-2008, 10:14 AM
We need to move on Taveras now.
Would rather not. Let's get some good players.

hi im skot
11-19-2008, 10:17 AM
Thank god he's not ending up with us.

kraut83
11-19-2008, 10:29 AM
So this is why KW has been waiting to move on Crisp. We all know how much he loves dealing with the Royals.

ChiSoxFan81
11-19-2008, 10:30 AM
Thank god he's not ending up with us.

What makes you say that? I heard that KW orchestrated this trade just so he could get Crisp off the Royals. After all, we know how KW loves those former Royals.

chisoxmike
11-19-2008, 10:30 AM
Why is this in What's the Score?

Rockabilly
11-19-2008, 10:32 AM
Why is this in What's the Score?


its not a done deal yet... Just a report from Brian McRae

munchman33
11-19-2008, 10:34 AM
Would rather not. Let's get some good players.

There are no better FA options for CF. And our other trade options at that position are pretty much nothing. Our CF next year will be Taveras or BA.

Taveras is better than Crisp, IMO. Better defender and faster. Neither guy is a great hitter, but both make decent contact.

EMel9281
11-19-2008, 10:38 AM
I hate this trade because now I have to see him 19 times in the season with that stupid cocked hat of his...:angry:

veeter
11-19-2008, 10:42 AM
Probably means there's something to the Royal/cub trade rumors. But I don't like Crisp, DeJesus or Teahan(sp?). Kenny is probably thinking much bigger. Another sleeper out there like TCQ perhaps?

chisox616
11-19-2008, 10:43 AM
One less speedy CF we can trade for, now... Apparently they gave up Ramon Ramirez to get him. Looks like salary trimming on the Sawx' part.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/11/coco-crisp-trad.html

thomas35forever
11-19-2008, 10:47 AM
I wouldn't mind DeJesus if we can get him cheap. I doubt he comes at that price though.

esbrechtel
11-19-2008, 10:48 AM
already a thread in WTS....

Thigpen "57"
11-19-2008, 10:56 AM
Is it possible that Kenny traded for the wrong Ramirez from the Royals last year? (Teal implied...)

All I can say is thank goodness Cocovelli did not get traded to us (yet).

hi im skot
11-19-2008, 11:00 AM
Probably means there's something to the Royal/cub trade rumors. But I don't like Crisp, DeJesus or Teahan(sp?). Kenny is probably thinking much bigger. Another sleeper out there like TCQ perhaps?

I don't think there's another Quentin out there.

Lukin13
11-19-2008, 11:07 AM
Thank god he's not ending up with us.

Yep, it would have been absolutely HORRIBLE to have gone DEFENSE FIRST in CF, especially with a bad RF and a LF with average at best range.

Coco Crisp>Willy Taveras
Coco Crisp>David DeJesus (as a CF)
Coco Crisp>Anyone the Sox have had playing CF since '05 (as a CF)

munchman33
11-19-2008, 11:11 AM
Yep, it would have been absolutely HORRIBLE to have gone DEFENSE FIRST in CF, especially with a bad RF and a LF with average at best range.

Coco Crisp>Willy Taveras
Coco Crisp>David DeJesus (as a CF)
Coco Crisp>Anyone the Sox have had playing CF since '05 (as a CF)

Why do you say that? As I mentioned before, Taveras is a better defender (range and arm are both better) and he's faster. Neither guy is a great hitter, but neither guy stands out in that department. To me, Taveras is the clear choice of the two.

russ99
11-19-2008, 11:11 AM
Yep, it would have been absolutely HORRIBLE to have gone DEFENSE FIRST in CF, especially with a bad RF and a LF with average at best range.

Coco Crisp>Willy Taveras
Coco Crisp>David DeJesus (as a CF)
Coco Crisp>Anyone the Sox have had playing CF since '05 (as a CF)

Agree, except for the defense first part. I like Coco much more for his bat, specifically he's a much better contact hitter for average than the others.

As for comparisons to Willy T, Willy can't hit the ball out of the infield and hasn't been sold on bunting for hits, and while his arm is better than Crisp, he takes absolutely awful jumps and routes to the ball and uses his speed to compensate. Coco's not as fast, but a much better instinctive fielder.

But I think Kenny's going after a bigger target for CF. He's seen the revolving door there for us the last few years... I'd even go as far to say he'd skip an acquisition and have play Getz/Nix at 2B if he can get the right guy for CF.

hi im skot
11-19-2008, 11:12 AM
Yep, it would have been absolutely HORRIBLE to have gone DEFENSE FIRST in CF, especially with a bad RF and a LF with average at best range.

Coco Crisp>Willy Taveras
Coco Crisp>David DeJesus (as a CF)
Coco Crisp>Anyone the Sox have had playing CF since '05 (as a CF)

Coco Crisp sucks.

veeter
11-19-2008, 11:15 AM
I don't think there's another Quentin out there.And if Kenny inquired about a team's stud prospect that hasn't panned out, that team would immediatley think twice.

chisox616
11-19-2008, 11:15 AM
Whoops! My bad didn't think to check there, sorry.

Lukin13
11-19-2008, 11:16 AM
Why do you say that? As I mentioned before, Taveras is a better defender (range and arm are both better) and he's faster. Neither guy is a great hitter, but neither guy stands out in that department. To me, Taveras is the clear choice of the two.

Crisp OBP: .344
WillyT OBP: .310

One is a bonified major leaguer, the other is a fourth outfielder with speed.
Taveras has a better arm and contract but Crisp is the better overall outfielder and a much better fit for our current lineup.

Lukin13
11-19-2008, 11:17 AM
Coco Crisp sucks.

Solid rebuttal.

hi im skot
11-19-2008, 11:17 AM
And if Kenny inquired about a team's stud prospect that hasn't panned out, that team would immediatley think twice.

There might be something to that thought.

Quentin was an incredible pick-up, but now a lot of folks seem to think that any "nobody" the Sox sign has the potential to match Quentin's numbers.

I know a lot of it is wishful thinking, but anyone truly hoping for a TCQ-esque signing is probably going to end up disappointed.

hi im skot
11-19-2008, 11:20 AM
Solid rebuttal.

If you're focusing on "DEFENSE FIRST," we've already got someone who plays a solid CF. I don't want to turn this into an Anderson thread, especially since I'm not a big BA fan. However, why sign an overrated CF when it's completely unnecessary?

I've been asking for the last year why people are so in love with Crisp, and I still haven't gotten a good answer.

sox1970
11-19-2008, 11:28 AM
If that's all the Royals had to give up for Crisp, then the Sox better be getting a CF/leadoff guy better than him.

munchman33
11-19-2008, 11:29 AM
Crisp OBP: .344
WillyT OBP: .310

One is a bonified major leaguer, the other is a fourth outfielder with speed.
Taveras has a better arm and contract but Crisp is the better overall outfielder and a much better fit for our current lineup.

Well if this isn't one of the most mis-leading arguments I've ever seen...

You're taking one year, where he battled injuries all year, and making it the norm. Nevermind the guy has a career obp 20+ points higher. Nevermind the previous year it was above .370!

Offensively, the two guys are a wash.

Craig Grebeck
11-19-2008, 11:46 AM
Well if this isn't one of the most mis-leading arguments I've ever seen...

You're taking one year, where he battled injuries all year, and making it the norm. Nevermind the guy has a career obp 20+ points higher. Nevermind the previous year it was above .370!

Offensively, the two guys are a wash.
Crisp is much better offensively and defensively.

Lukin13
11-19-2008, 11:49 AM
Well if this isn't one of the most mis-leading arguments I've ever seen...

You're taking one year, where he battled injuries all year, and making it the norm. Nevermind the guy has a career obp 20+ points higher. Nevermind the previous year it was above .370!

Offensively, the two guys are a wash.

Taveras career AWAY OBP: .326.

Taveras ranked 29th and 20th +/- among defensive center fielders the past two seasons.

Crisp also had a higher RZR than Taveras in the past two seasons.

I didn't realize how strong Willy's numbers were in Houston, I do remember him being a tough out during the '05 Series. Also, Crisp>Taveras, doesn't mean Crisp is heads and tails better than Taveras, and I stand by my post that Crisp would have been better in '09 for the WSox than Taveras. Taveras will also cost significantly more than the BoSox received for Crisp.

Lukin13
11-19-2008, 11:50 AM
If you're focusing on "DEFENSE FIRST," we've already got someone who plays a solid CF. I don't want to turn this into an Anderson thread, especially since I'm not a big BA fan. However, why sign an overrated CF when it's completely unnecessary?

I've been asking for the last year why people are so in love with Crisp, and I still haven't gotten a good answer.

As a BA fan, I agree with you.

As a realist, I can't see BA approaching a .350 OBP.

munchman33
11-19-2008, 11:51 AM
Crisp is much better offensively and defensively.

That second statement is laughable.

As for offense...their career obp are equal. And while Crisp slugs better, Taveras' lightning speed has helped him stay about equal in total bases. It's pretty much a wash. And, given the makeup of the current team, I'd rather have the faster guy.

Craig Grebeck
11-19-2008, 11:52 AM
That second statement is laughable.

As for offense...their career obp are equal. And while Crisp slugs better, Taveras' lightning speed has helped him stay about equal in total bases. It's pretty much a wash. And, given the makeup of the current team, I'd rather have the faster guy.
I'll take the better defensive player with the higher OBP who has played in the AL.

Sargeant79
11-19-2008, 12:06 PM
If you're focusing on "DEFENSE FIRST," we've already got someone who plays a solid CF. I don't want to turn this into an Anderson thread, especially since I'm not a big BA fan. However, why sign an overrated CF when it's completely unnecessary?


Agree 100%. I'm all for going out and getting a real difference maker in CF. But if that can't happen, we're better off giving Anderson the first crack at the job rather than giving up talent for mediocre players.

NLaloosh
11-19-2008, 12:15 PM
There's probably no player in baseball more similar to Willy Taveras than Jerry Owens.

Crisp is much better than both of them because he is a switch hitter and can actually hit.

Taveras/Owens have 0 / NO / NADA extra base power. Forget it.

khan
11-19-2008, 12:23 PM
Both Crisp and Taveras are better than anything the SOX have right now. I'm not saying the SOX should go get Taveras, but if the choice is between Taveras and anything in the team RIGHT NOW, I'd take Taveras.

Now if there are any other CF targets out there, available, and can be gotten for a reasonable price, I'm listening. Because outside of Crisp and Taveras, I haven't seen anyone propose another player hereto fore this offseason.

Fenway
11-19-2008, 12:51 PM
its not a done deal yet... Just a report from Brian McRae

Theo has confirmed it to WEEI

kittle42
11-19-2008, 12:55 PM
Both Crisp and Taveras are better than anything the SOX have right now.

Ain't that the truth, sadly.

ohiosoxfan
11-19-2008, 01:12 PM
If we could get a Furcal or Brian Roberts to play infield and lead off, I'd be satisfied with BA in center, batting 8th or 9th.

munchman33
11-19-2008, 01:24 PM
Taveras career AWAY OBP: .326.

Taveras ranked 29th and 20th +/- among defensive center fielders the past two seasons.

Crisp also had a higher RZR than Taveras in the past two seasons.

I didn't realize how strong Willy's numbers were in Houston, I do remember him being a tough out during the '05 Series. Also, Crisp>Taveras, doesn't mean Crisp is heads and tails better than Taveras, and I stand by my post that Crisp would have been better in '09 for the WSox than Taveras. Taveras will also cost significantly more than the BoSox received for Crisp.

That's great. What was he before battling leg injuries he didn't get over until late in the year last year?

Also, Taveras, because of his injuries will cost less than a Coco Crisp.

munchman33
11-19-2008, 01:24 PM
I'll take the better defensive player with the higher OBP who has played in the AL.

Whether or not you're right, it's moot. The best CF available to us now is Taveras. And we're better with him than without him.

DaveFeelsRight
11-19-2008, 01:31 PM
thank god he got traded. now hes off the radar haha

Tragg
11-19-2008, 01:32 PM
We need to move on Taveras now.
He can't hit. We have a CF who can't hit and who makes mincemeat of him defensively. We also have one who can't hit or field but can run - actually, we have 2 of those.
Get a real CF.

munchman33
11-19-2008, 01:33 PM
He can't hit.
Get a real CF.

He's a .331 career obp guy with more speed than 99% of the league.

Unless we're trading for Beltran, other options include Juan Pierre and....well....

We need to move on Taveras now.

DaveFeelsRight
11-19-2008, 01:37 PM
my case for willy t:

he made the world series with the astros AND rockies! hes has to be good!

PaleHoser
11-19-2008, 01:39 PM
Official (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081119&content_id=3684498&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp)

KC's made two deals in the off-season and traded pitching both times. Who knew they had pitching to burn?

Tragg
11-19-2008, 01:41 PM
He's a .331 career obp guy That blows.

munchman33
11-19-2008, 01:48 PM
That blows.

That's average. And that's only because of injury. Before last year, his career OBP was around .350.

Tragg
11-19-2008, 01:57 PM
That's average. And that's only because of injury. Before last year, his career OBP was around .350.
.331 obp with no power is below average. There just arent' very many good slap hitters.
Slap hitters need to walk to keep their OBP up there; some years their grounders get through the hole a few more times than others, temporarily spiking their OBP.
Taveras doesn't walk near enough.
I'd see if we can get that over-hyped prospect Pie from the Cubs real cheap....not sure about his D, but I think he can hit better than he's shown.
Can't count on him, though, but just an asset I'd try to snag.

palehozenychicty
11-19-2008, 02:17 PM
I would have liked Coco in CF, although a lot of people here think he blows, whether we can trade or find someone that puts up his respectable stats remains to be seen. He's a solid player that does have some value. But oh well. It's looking like Taveras or Anderson, unless something comes out of the blue. We'll know more after the Winter Meetings.

JUribe1989
11-19-2008, 02:27 PM
Chicago White Sox in the Ozzieball era (2004-2008) against the Royals: 61-31

Chicago White Sox against the Royals since 2000: 102-59

Ain't nothing changing with Coco Crisp and MIKE JACOBS!

whitesox901
11-19-2008, 02:36 PM
thank god he's not ending up with us.

x1000

KRS1
11-19-2008, 02:41 PM
He can't hit. We have a CF who can't hit and who makes mincemeat of him defensively. We also have one who can't hit or field but can run - actually, we have 2 of those.
Get a real CF.

Ding ding ding.

I don't even see why there is an argument over a couple of sucks. We should actually be looking to guys who can actually help us in some way out there, not another mediocre vet.

munchman33
11-19-2008, 02:44 PM
Chicago White Sox in the Ozzieball era (2004-2008) against the Royals: 61-31

Chicago White Sox against the Royals since 2000: 102-59

Ain't nothing changing with Coco Crisp and MIKE JACOBS!

They're picking up role players to fill some of their glaring holes. If their young players make a leap, they could really surprise a lot of people.

munchman33
11-19-2008, 02:48 PM
Ding ding ding.

I don't even see why there is an argument over a couple of sucks. We should actually be looking to guys who can actually help us in some way out there, not another mediocre vet.

Name anyone available to us who can play center. Because the only better player than Taveras available is Carlos Beltran, and that's about as likely as trading for Roy Halladay.

There aren't any CF's on the free agent market or available in trade better than Taveras. If you don't like him, you're welcome to not. But if we don't pick up Taveras, who's clearly available on the cheap after a down year due to injury, we'll be a worse team than if we did pick him up. And I can say that with absolute certainty.

WhiteSox5187
11-19-2008, 02:49 PM
If we could get a Furcal or Brian Roberts to play infield and lead off, I'd be satisfied with BA in center, batting 8th or 9th.
I've said it several times but it bears repeating according a source in the Reds organization (a very high up source who I will not name) the Reds originally wanted Massett, Richar and Anderson for Junior, Kenny said "I'm not going to give you Anderson, he's our center fielder next year." So the trading of Swisher and not getting Crisp certainly seems to support the idea of Anderson being in CF next year, which means unless we trade Dye or leadoff guy is coming from either second or third base...I still think we wind up getting Figgins.

soxinem1
11-19-2008, 02:51 PM
The Red Sox came out well on this deal. It's too bad the Sox couldn't get him.

This was the Ramirez I hoped we got when I heard of the trade the White Sox made with KC last year.:whiner:

What a joke KC is. Give up a great arm for another OF. They should have traded him to TEX for one of their catchers.

Maybe we can trade MacDougal for Willie Taveras!!!

oeo
11-19-2008, 02:57 PM
I've said it several times but it bears repeating according a source in the Reds organization (a very high up source who I will not name) the Reds originally wanted Massett, Richar and Anderson for Junior, Kenny said "I'm not going to give you Anderson, he's our center fielder next year." So the trading of Swisher and not getting Crisp certainly seems to support the idea of Anderson being in CF next year, which means unless we trade Dye or leadoff guy is coming from either second or third base...I still think we wind up getting Figgins.

So they just knocked Anderson off and said Masset and Richar was fine? :scratch:

WhiteSox5187
11-19-2008, 03:06 PM
So they just knocked Anderson off and said Masset and Richar was fine? :scratch:
I'm not so sure what exactly the Reds logic was but I suppose they were desperate to get Junior's contract off the books?

kittle42
11-19-2008, 03:18 PM
I've said it several times but it bears repeating according a source in the Reds organization (a very high up source who I will not name) the Reds originally wanted Massett, Richar and Anderson for Junior, Kenny said "I'm not going to give you Anderson, he's our center fielder next year."

If he is, then we better not have Fields and Getz starting at 3B and 2B. I can deal with one of the three starting, but not any more.

cws05champ
11-19-2008, 03:45 PM
I think the important #'s here are:

3-2 with a 2.64 ERA and 70 strikeouts in 71 2/3 innings
4-1 with a 2.98 ERA and 26 strikeouts in 48 1/3 innings

Can you imagine the outrage around these parts if the sox traded away two young cheap relivers that put up these #'s last year for Coco and Jacobs. By trading Nunez and Ramirez they really decimated their set up to Soria unless they are really confident in the minor league arms they have coming.

PalehosePlanet
11-19-2008, 03:51 PM
Thank god he's not ending up with us.

You've got that right!

Also I'm very thankful that we won't see another 15 threads get started about acquiring him any time soon.

Oh...and no thanks on DeJesus.

WhiteSox5187
11-19-2008, 04:14 PM
If he is, then we better not have Fields and Getz starting at 3B and 2B. I can deal with one of the three starting, but not any more.
I agree, but that would make the idea of having Figgins at third and Hudson at second much more likely or at least for Kenny to persue those guys.

Konerko05
11-19-2008, 04:53 PM
Finally gr8mexico can stop bringing up Crisp's name in every single post.

Crisp had two pretty decent years with Cleveland in '04 and '05. He has been awfully mediocre since.

kittle42
11-19-2008, 05:04 PM
Finally gr8mexico can stop bringing up Crisp's name in every single post.

He'll find someone else!

Tragg
11-19-2008, 05:43 PM
So they just knocked Anderson off and said Masset and Richar was fine? :scratch:
Should have been fine for what we received. Griffey wasn't doing anything for them.

Anderson can at least play the position well. That has some value. And we're a little gimpy in the corner outfield spots, soo there's something to be said for a CF who can cover ground.

If we shore up 2nd base and find a leadoff hitter and if we get some production out of 3B, we can live with Anderson batting 9th.
I don't know who would bat 2nd, but they'll figure it out.

btrain929
11-19-2008, 05:57 PM
If we shore up 2nd base and find a leadoff hitter and if we get some production out of 3B, we can live with Anderson batting 9th.

Doesn't that pretty much describe 2006? We had Pods leading off, Iguchi who had a better '06 than '05, and a career year from Crede.

PalehosePlanet
11-19-2008, 06:33 PM
Doesn't that pretty much describe 2006? We had Pods leading off, Iguchi who had a better '06 than '05, and a career year from Crede.

And we were 3rd in MLB in runs scored in '06; it was our pitching that went to **** in the 2nd half more than anything else.

Not to mention Mack in CF, which IMO cost us 5 or 6 games alone.

russ99
11-19-2008, 06:44 PM
Since when did this become an Anderson thread?

As for that Reds conversation, maybe that was Kenny blowing smoke you know where.

I very much doubt Anderson will be handed the starting CF job anytime soon, and won't be given the chance until he starts looking like he has a purpose at the plate. Ozzie has gone on record many times asking for a new CF and a leadoff guy, and Kenny's trying to oblige. If we miss out on Tavarez, Kenny will get someone else.

Defense-only is nice for the bottom of an NL lineup, but to compete for an AL crown, we need hitters 1-9.

champagne030
11-19-2008, 09:27 PM
Defense-only is nice for the bottom of an NL lineup, but to compete for an AL crown, we need hitters 1-9.

The Red Sox won a World Series with no defense or offense at SS in 2007. Got one game away from the World Series again this season with the same ****.

Billy Ashley
11-19-2008, 10:21 PM
The Red Sox won a World Series with no defense or offense at SS in 2007. Got one game away from the World Series again this season with the same ****.

Um Lugo is a good defensive short stop, Lowrie is also not bad.

They also have great fielders at 1st and 2nd, CF and good fielders at 3rd and RF

Tragg
11-19-2008, 10:28 PM
Doesn't that pretty much describe 2006? We had Pods leading off, Iguchi who had a better '06 than '05, and a career year from Crede.
No because Pods wasn't very good in 2006.

champagne030
11-19-2008, 10:32 PM
Um Lugo is a good defensive short stop, Lowrie is also not bad.

They also have great fielders at 1st and 2nd, CF and good fielders at 3rd and RF

No, Lugo blows defensively and any metric you're using to say otherwise is full of ****........Watch him play.

Lowrie, a second baseman by trade, can handle the routine, but has zero range and is no better offensively than Brian Anderson.

Craig Grebeck
11-19-2008, 10:40 PM
No, Lugo blows defensively and any metric you're using to say otherwise is full of ****........Watch him play.

Lowrie, a second baseman by trade, can handle the routine, but has zero range and is no better offensively than Brian Anderson.
Lugo is fairly mediocre but Lowrie is much, much better offensively than Brian Anderson.

champagne030
11-19-2008, 10:48 PM
Lowrie is much, much better offensively than Brian Anderson.

He makes better contact and walks more, but has no power and doesn't hit for average. :shrug:

Craig Grebeck
11-19-2008, 10:50 PM
He makes better contact and walks more, but has no power and doesn't hit for average. :shrug:
Anderson does none of these things. He hit for decent power this year, but Lowrie is still worlds better offensively.

champagne030
11-19-2008, 10:57 PM
Anderson does none of these things. He hit for decent power this year, but Lowrie is still worlds better offensively.

Now Lowrie is not, but I guess we'll agree to disagree. Anderson has hit for power every year, except the year he was benched on game two of his rookie season.

Craig Grebeck
11-19-2008, 11:07 PM
Now Lowrie is not, but I guess we'll agree to disagree. Anderson has hit for power every year, except the year he was benched on game two of his rookie season.
He received more ABs that year than any other.

guillensdisciple
11-19-2008, 11:18 PM
Royals are next years Rays.

champagne030
11-19-2008, 11:22 PM
He received more ABs that year than any other.

You mean other than his 5th OF status for two months in '07 and then 5th OF status in '08? Again, '05 was his rookie season and he was jerked around all year long.

whitesox901
11-20-2008, 12:12 AM
Im glad he's off the market,

Him, Willy T, Pierre and DeJesus are not people we do not need on our team to lead off.

If you want a lead-off hitter with a low OBP and a bad arm then just have Owens play CF and lead off.....

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 12:16 AM
Im glad he's off the market,

Him, Willy T, Pierre and DeJesus are not people we do not need on our team to lead off.

If you want a lead-off hitter with a low OBP and a bad arm then just have Owens play CF and lead off.....
He's actually good at hitting.

whitesox901
11-20-2008, 01:55 AM
He's actually good at hitting.

Whoops :tongue:

hellview
11-20-2008, 11:29 AM
Lowrie, a second baseman by trade, can handle the routine, but has zero range and is no better offensively than Brian Anderson.

I'll take Lowrie's bat any second over BA.

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 11:30 AM
You mean other than his 5th OF status for two months in '07 and then 5th OF status in '08? Again, '05 was his rookie season and he was jerked around all year long.
So when exactly has he shown power? This season? So what makes him equal with Lowrie?

champagne030
11-20-2008, 11:41 AM
So when exactly has he shown power? This season? So what makes him equal with Lowrie?

They both hit about .290 in their 1200-1300 AB's in the minors. Brian had about 40 homers in 1200 minor league AB's and 18 in 600 major league AB's.

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 11:45 AM
They both hit about .290 in their 1200-1300 AB's in the minors. Brian had about 40 homers in 1200 minor league AB's and 18 in 600 major league AB's.
I'm still confused. Lowrie slugged .400 this season. Brian's career MLB slugging percentage is .379. Sure, Anderson hit more HR in his minor league career, but he really hasn't done much offensively since getting to the majors, while Lowrie was a solid hitter in his first half season.

kittle42
11-20-2008, 12:05 PM
I'm still confused. Lowrie slugged .400 this season. Brian's career MLB slugging percentage is .379. Sure, Anderson hit more HR in his minor league career, but he really hasn't done much offensively since getting to the majors, while Lowrie was a solid hitter in his first half season.

Yup. The numbers don't lie here.

champagne030
11-20-2008, 12:50 PM
I'm still confused. Lowrie slugged .400 this season. Brian's career MLB slugging percentage is .379. Sure, Anderson hit more HR in his minor league career, but he really hasn't done much offensively since getting to the majors, while Lowrie was a solid hitter in his first half season.

It's not confusing. The difference is you're going to base your opinion on someone's first 260 AB's in the majors and ignore the 1300 minor league AB's.

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 12:58 PM
It's not confusing. The difference is you're going to base your opinion on someone's first 260 AB's in the majors and ignore the 1300 minor league AB's.
Well he slugged .446 in the minors, so this isn't exactly a Denard Span situation. Brian slugged .474. Lowrie's ISO was .159 against Anderson's .181. Not a gulf of difference.

Seriously, Lowrie was much better than Anderson in the minors. Anderson's career K/BB ratio in the minors: 246/120. Lowrie's? 229/196 in more ABs than Brian.

champagne030
11-20-2008, 01:50 PM
Seriously, Lowrie was much better than Anderson in the minors. Anderson's career K/BB ratio in the minors: 246/120. Lowrie's? 229/196 in more ABs than Brian.

Stop already.

Lowrie .287 .381 .827
Anderson .293 .364 .838

Very comparable offensive players.

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 02:04 PM
Stop already.

Lowrie .287 .381 .827
Anderson .293 .364 .838

Very comparable offensive players.
And yet, Lowrie hit well in his major league debut, struck out less/walked more in the minors, and progressed better than Anderson did.

They're only comparable if you believe Anderson's minor league numbers are indicative of his true talent.

kittle42
11-20-2008, 03:14 PM
It's not confusing. The difference is you're going to base your opinion on someone's first 260 AB's in the majors and ignore the 1300 minor league AB's.

In oither words, he's basing his opinion on the stats that actually matter vs. the ones that only give you hope that a player will be good?

esbrechtel
11-20-2008, 03:33 PM
almost 100 posts about Coco Crisp to the Royals? :?:

champagne030
11-20-2008, 03:45 PM
In oither words, he's basing his opinion on the stats that actually matter vs. the ones that only give you hope that a player will be good?

260 AB'S is a small sample.

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2008, 03:47 PM
260 AB'S is a small sample.
Through the minor leagues, Anderson has displayed a completely inept understanding of the strike zone, especially as he progressed. That is the most telling aspect of his development. Lowrie, on the other hand, has been markedly better.

kittle42
11-20-2008, 04:07 PM
260 AB'S is a small sample.

He could play like **** playing regularly for 260 ABs starting in 2009 and some people here would still be screaming for him to play if Ozzie yanked him.