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champagne030
11-16-2008, 12:10 PM
The last paragraph of Phil Rogers' Sunday article suggests that the Sox may not offer arbitration to Orlando. I think it would throw a serious wrench in Kenny's plans if Cabrera called our bluff, but will that scare him enough to not make the offer? Hopefully, Phil is just throwing darts at a board and we're not seriously considering passing on the compensation.

Craig Grebeck
11-16-2008, 12:14 PM
The last paragraph of Phil Rogers' Sunday article suggests that the Sox may not offer arbitration to Orlando. I think it would throw a serious wrench in Kenny's plans if Cabrera called our bluff, but will that scare him enough to not make the offer? Hopefully, Phil is just throwing darts at a board and we're not seriously considering passing on the compensation.
Phil is wrong.

btrain929
11-16-2008, 12:20 PM
No way is he accepting arbitration. He wants out of here ASAP. But, if we're pretending to be in la-la-land and he did accept, it wouldn't be the WORST thing in the world.

munchman33
11-16-2008, 12:23 PM
Cabrera on a one year deal would be a dream scenerio for Kenny. We can keep Alexei at 2nd for another year, have a good #2 who can leadoff, and give Beckham a full year to develop. Or, if he's ready, trade Cabrera mid-season when his value will be it's highest.

champagne030
11-16-2008, 12:31 PM
No way is he accepting arbitration. He wants out of here ASAP. But, if we're pretending to be in la-la-land and he did accept, it wouldn't be the WORST thing in the world.

There might not be a huge market for Cabrera. The Peavy trade to Atlanta seems off, the Tigers are looking to dump salary, the Cardinals have refused to spend since moving into their new stadium, Furcal seems to want to return to the Dodgers, I find it difficult to believe the Twins pony up.... I agree he doesn't want to be here and we don't want him here, but depending on offers he might think one year at $11M wouldn't be so bad in Chicago.

dickallen15
11-16-2008, 12:55 PM
I don't think the White Sox want to pay a guy they consider a cancer, a guy who has had a league average OPS or better one time in his career, probably $11 million to $12 million if he accepts arbitration. No team has ever won a WS with a SS as old as Cabrera is right now. If he signs before they have to offer it, obviously they will. If not, it probably will depend on what KW has done up until then, but not offering it wouldn't be a shock because its entirely possible with the current conditions Cabrera would have to take a paycut on the open market. He wouldn't through arbitration.

Tragg
11-16-2008, 12:58 PM
We've got to offer him arbitration.
If he accepts, fine, he can play utility infielder, a la Uribe, 2008.

btrain929
11-16-2008, 01:01 PM
There might not be a huge market for Cabrera. The Peavy trade to Atlanta seems off, the Tigers are looking to dump salary, the Cardinals have refused to spend since moving into their new stadium, Furcal seems to want to return to the Dodgers, I find it difficult to believe the Twins pony up.... I agree he doesn't want to be here and we don't want him here, but depending on offers he might think one year at $11M wouldn't be so bad in Chicago.

True, but I think Cabrera would rather spend the whole offseason searching and having his agent wheel and deal to sell Cabrera to teams, as supposed to Cabrera just jumping the gun and accepting arbitration this early. I think he can most certainly get a 1 year deal from a decent amount of teams, so I think he would rather do that in December/January after exploring the market as supposed to now.

btrain929
11-16-2008, 01:01 PM
We've got to offer him arbitration.
If he accepts, fine, he can play utility infielder, a la Uribe, 2008.

LOL. If he accepts, he will be starting.

soxtalker
11-16-2008, 01:17 PM
The last paragraph of Phil Rogers' Sunday article suggests that the Sox may not offer arbitration to Orlando. I think it would throw a serious wrench in Kenny's plans if Cabrera called our bluff, but will that scare him enough to not make the offer? Hopefully, Phil is just throwing darts at a board and we're not seriously considering passing on the compensation.

I noticed that also. I think that's the first time that I've heard it suggested that the Sox might not offer arbitration, thinking that OC might accept it. I wonder if this indicates that the FA market is rapidly softening along with the overall economy.

champagne030
11-16-2008, 01:21 PM
True, but I think Cabrera would rather spend the whole offseason searching and having his agent wheel and deal to sell Cabrera to teams, as supposed to Cabrera just jumping the gun and accepting arbitration this early. I think he can most certainly get a 1 year deal from a decent amount of teams, so I think he would rather do that in December/January after exploring the market as supposed to now.

IMO, there's no way this goes down before December. Nobody is going to offer him a multi-year deal before they see if we offer arbitration. And we don't need to make that decision until 12/1. Sure, there's plenty of teams that would offer a 1 year deal at $5M, but that's where I see him then accepting our offer. I think we've already invested too much to not offer, but Kenny already has made a move this offseason to cut our losses. I hope he doesn't play it the same way in this case.

Rockabilly
11-16-2008, 01:25 PM
According to Peter Gammons he says that scouts in the AFL league have said that Beckham will be our full time 2B by june...

PalehosePlanet
11-16-2008, 01:40 PM
As usual Rogers' take on a situation is way off. I highly doubt that he made the statement out of any inside knowledege or from any inside source that he might have. His editor probably demanded 20 more words to fill out a coulumn.

whitesox901
11-16-2008, 01:40 PM
According to Peter Gammons he says that scouts in the AFL league have said that Beckham will be our full time 2B by june...

:o:

DirtySox
11-16-2008, 01:42 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3705607&name=gammons_peter

From the AFL stats thread.

whitesox901
11-16-2008, 01:45 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3705607&name=gammons_peter

From the AFL stats thread.

Wow, he must have talent flowing outta the Wazoo

NLaloosh
11-16-2008, 06:14 PM
The White Sox will offer Cabrera arbitration. Cabrera won't consider it for even a second. The Sox will get the draft picks after he signs with another team.

TheOldRoman
11-16-2008, 06:52 PM
Once again, Phil Rogers is a moron. Cabrera won't consider arbitration, but it won't be because he hates it here. He wants his last big contract. He will pass up the $11 mil or so he would get in arbitration to get a 3 year deal worth upwards of $25 million. My only question for Phil would be, do you consider Orlando Cabrera a polished workhorse?

Craig Grebeck
11-16-2008, 07:21 PM
I also love that Phil doesn't realize the Sox probably won't even have to offer OC arbitration, as he'll probably sign before the deadline. Nice job Phil!

gr8mexico
11-16-2008, 08:15 PM
According to Peter Gammons he says that scouts in the AFL league have said that Beckham will be our full time 2B by june...
HOLY CRAP!!!! Is he playing that good. The Sox should just go with what they have in house at 2B.

RowanDye
11-16-2008, 08:19 PM
Cabrerarbitration?

4 points
11-17-2008, 05:59 AM
Wow, he must have talent flowing outta the Wazoo

Beckham has a boatload of talent, but if he is starting at 2nd in early summer, it means were in a boatload of trouble.:whiner::whiner::whiner::whiner::whiner:

DrCrawdad
11-17-2008, 07:37 AM
In the past have the Sox offered arbitration to players they actually do not want to resign simply to receive draft picks?

cws05champ
11-17-2008, 08:19 AM
In the past have the Sox offered arbitration to players they actually do not want to resign simply to receive draft picks?
It seems more often than not they don't, but I think they have to in this situation. You can not let a type A free agent leave and not get anything in return.

russ99
11-17-2008, 10:22 AM
It seems more often than not they don't, but I think they have to in this situation. You can not let a type A free agent leave and not get anything in return.

The Sox will offer and OC will refuse. I can't see any reason why this won't be a open & shut case.

Also, whoa. Hold the horses on Beckham. Look what happened when we rushed our previous hitter top prospects... I'd prefer to give him a season to rise through the system before expecting him to vie for a major league starting spot, and calling him up to sit on the bench would be completely useless.

If we can't land Hudson in FA, I'm OK with a Nix/Getz/Betemit platoon at 2B as long as we get good MLB players for 3B and CF.

veeter
11-17-2008, 10:52 AM
Cabrera on a one year deal would be a dream scenerio for Kenny. We can keep Alexei at 2nd for another year, have a good #2 who can leadoff, and give Beckham a full year to develop. Or, if he's ready, trade Cabrera mid-season when his value will be it's highest.I agree.

BadBobbyJenks
11-17-2008, 11:25 AM
If he accepts it he is the stop gap we need with Gordon Beckham anyways. I would rather have OC for one year than figuring out what to do with Gordon in two years because we signed Orlando Hudson to a big deal.

That said, no way is he accepting it and KW would be a fool not to offer arbitration.

junkyarddoug
11-17-2008, 11:57 AM
When is the deadline to offer him arbitration? What is the possiblitly he would accept? Since, he's a type A free agent I think we have to offer him arbitration since I doubt he'd accept anyway.

Rocky Soprano
11-17-2008, 12:01 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=107665

JohnTucker0814
11-17-2008, 01:44 PM
Aren't Griffey & Uribe considered Type B Free Agents, meaning we would inherit a Compensation Pick after the 1st round... In theory then if we lose all 3 we would gain a 1st round pick for Cabrera and 2 compensation picks for Griff and Uribe. That would be 3 picks in the top 40 or 50 players? Good way to start building a minor league talent pool!

Domeshot17
11-17-2008, 01:48 PM
Aren't Griffey & Uribe considered Type B Free Agents, meaning we would inherit a Compensation Pick after the 1st round... In theory then if we lose all 3 we would gain a 1st round pick for Cabrera and 2 compensation picks for Griff and Uribe. That would be 3 picks in the top 40 or 50 players? Good way to start building a minor league talent pool!

We will land 2 from Cabrera, Uribe maybe, but I do not see us offering on Griffey. He loved it here, and 1 year at a monster salary might just be enough for him to accept.

BadBobbyJenks
11-17-2008, 02:04 PM
Aren't Griffey & Uribe considered Type B Free Agents, meaning we would inherit a Compensation Pick after the 1st round... In theory then if we lose all 3 we would gain a 1st round pick for Cabrera and 2 compensation picks for Griff and Uribe. That would be 3 picks in the top 40 or 50 players? Good way to start building a minor league talent pool!

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/features/freeagents?oldTeamId=4&season=2008

It has arbitration type in parentheses and you can check out each team.

OC type A
Uribe type B
Griffey type B

voodoochile
11-17-2008, 02:04 PM
We will land 2 from Cabrera, Uribe maybe, but I do not see us offering on Griffey. He loved it here, and 1 year at a monster salary might just be enough for him to accept.

What would be the point of buying him out then being forced to offer him 80% of his last contract? If they were going to do that, they simply should have picked up the option. They would have saved money...

voodoochile
11-17-2008, 02:07 PM
Oh and I have a question that I have wondered about for a long time...

If another team signs Cabrera today, do the Sox automatically get compensation picks or is there a window where the team is notified that an offer has been made and accepted and then the Sox can offer the arbitration as an alternative (meaning they want the picks)?

Basically, what happens when a team signs a guy who is a type A or B FA if that signing comes before arbitration is offered?

KenBerryGrab
11-17-2008, 02:30 PM
If a player is signed before the arbitration period and is declared a Type A or B free agent, the team losing the player gets the picks. It's as if the arbitration offer would have been assumed.

cws05champ
11-17-2008, 05:39 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/features/freeagents?oldTeamId=4&season=2008

It has arbitration type in parentheses and you can check out each team.

OC type A
Uribe type B
Griffey type B
I can't see them offering Uribe Arbitration. He would have to make more than the 4+MM he made last year and with Betemit and Nix in the fold, why would they take the chance that he accepts.

soxfanreggie
11-17-2008, 06:16 PM
Offer him arbitration, take the compensation if he doesn't sign. If he does take the one year offer, we can try to make things work until we can trade him.

munchman33
11-17-2008, 06:27 PM
Oh and I have a question that I have wondered about for a long time...

If another team signs Cabrera today, do the Sox automatically get compensation picks or is there a window where the team is notified that an offer has been made and accepted and then the Sox can offer the arbitration as an alternative (meaning they want the picks)?


If any type A or B free agent signs with a new team before the arbitration deadline, compensation is automatic.

soxfanreggie
11-18-2008, 08:27 PM
Make the offer to Uribe. He did a good job as a super sub, and we could turn to him again if Fields underperforms at 3rd.

btrain929
11-18-2008, 09:29 PM
I'd only offer it to him if you could work out a "handshake" agreement (I know, unlikely) with his agent that he rejects it to go look for a starting gig somewhere. But from Uribe's point of view, with Ramirez, Getz, Fields, Betemit, and possibly Nix, why would Uribe WANT to accept arbitration to stay here?

Daver
11-18-2008, 09:43 PM
I'd only offer it to him if you could work out a "handshake" agreement (I know, unlikely) with his agent that he rejects it to go look for a starting gig somewhere. But from Uribe's point of view, with Ramirez, Getz, Fields, Betemit, and possibly Nix, why would Uribe WANT to accept arbitration to stay here?

There are about 4 million reasons why.

Madscout
11-18-2008, 10:14 PM
There are about 4 million reasons why.
So we trade him, and he ends up taking that lesser deal that FA.

Oblong
11-18-2008, 10:28 PM
Oh and I have a question that I have wondered about for a long time...

If another team signs Cabrera today, do the Sox automatically get compensation picks or is there a window where the team is notified that an offer has been made and accepted and then the Sox can offer the arbitration as an alternative (meaning they want the picks)?

Basically, what happens when a team signs a guy who is a type A or B FA if that signing comes before arbitration is offered?

I am fairly certain that there is no window. Free Agents right now have no restrictions if they have yet to be offered arbitration.

In a way it's to help the player as much as the club. I believe Cabrera's value goes down signifigantly on the open market if the signing club had to give up picks. Teams are paying more and more attention to draft picks and their value than in previous years.

Daver
11-18-2008, 10:32 PM
So we trade him, and he ends up taking that lesser deal that FA.

How do you trade a player that is not under contract?

champagne030
11-18-2008, 10:36 PM
I am fairly certain that there is no window. Free Agents right now have no restrictions if they have yet to be offered arbitration.

In a way it's to help the player as much as the club. I believe Cabrera's value goes down signifigantly on the open market if the signing club had to give up picks. Teams are paying more and more attention to draft picks and their value than in previous years.

Have you been drinking? No offense because I respect your baseball knowledge, but if someone signs Renteria, Cabrera, ect. they will be paying compensation. Dec 1 is the deadline for a team to offer and, I believe, 12/7 is the deadline for a player to accept or decline. I expect a lot of movement after 12/7.......

btrain929
11-18-2008, 11:07 PM
There are about 4 million reasons why.

But it's not like there would be a huge difference, in my opinion, in the 4 million he'd get from us thru arb, or what he'd get from another team out there. I can see a team offering him a 1 yeal deal for 2-3 million. That's only a difference of 1-2 million. If he lands a starting gig and does well over the course of a year, he'll set himself up to possibly cash in next offseason. If he accepts arbitration, he'll be in the same poor situation as he is now.

Plus it's not like the Griffey situation where it'd cost 12 million or so to bring him back thru arb, where on the FA market he might only get 4-5 million. That's a lot greater difference in money.

Again, I'm not saying it's a no-brainer to offer him arb. If at all possible, like I said, I'd only offer it to his agent with a handshake agreement that he declines it, since there might be teams looking for a cheap starting SS or 2B (CIN & AZ, respectively). If his agent says they'd probably accept it, then simply don't.

Oblong
11-19-2008, 07:38 AM
Have you been drinking? No offense because I respect your baseball knowledge, but if someone signs Renteria, Cabrera, ect. they will be paying compensation. Dec 1 is the deadline for a team to offer and, I believe, 12/7 is the deadline for a player to accept or decline. I expect a lot of movement after 12/7.......
well that's why I said "fairly certain" which meant I'm not 100% sure. If what you said is true then so be it. I was wrong. I didn't say I was right.

Scottiehaswheels
11-20-2008, 10:52 PM
I read an article that said the Dodgers are interested in either Renteria or Cabrera, leaning towards Cabrera. They have some hot shot prospect in the minors for SS and don't want to give Furcal the years he's expected to demand. So would we get the Dodgers first rounder for him or would it be a supplemental pick? Dodgers were mediocre enough to win the NL West but were they top 15? Looks like based on records, they finished with the 14th best record, so we'd receive the 16th pick in the first round in return correct?

btrain929
11-20-2008, 10:59 PM
I read an article that said the Dodgers are interested in either Renteria or Cabrera, leaning towards Cabrera. They have some hot shot prospect in the minors for SS and don't want to give Furcal the years he's expected to demand. So would we get the Dodgers first rounder for him or would it be a supplemental pick? Dodgers were mediocre enough to win the NL West but were they top 15? Looks like based on records, they finished with the 14th best record, so we'd receive the 16th pick in the first round in return correct?

The Dodgers signing Cabrera would actually be the best-case scenario for us. They fall 16th in the rankings as you stated. But since WAS didn't sign their first round pick, they get a pick squeezed in around the 10th spot, so the Dodgers would actually have the 17th pick in the draft.

Either way, that is the best case scenario for us with Cabrera. We'd get their 17th pick, and an additional pick in the compensation round 1A.

cws05champ
11-21-2008, 07:23 AM
I read an article that said the Dodgers are interested in either Renteria or Cabrera, leaning towards Cabrera. They have some hot shot prospect in the minors for SS and don't want to give Furcal the years he's expected to demand. So would we get the Dodgers first rounder for him or would it be a supplemental pick? Dodgers were mediocre enough to win the NL West but were they top 15? Looks like based on records, they finished with the 14th best record, so we'd receive the 16th pick in the first round in return correct?

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=107595

khan
11-21-2008, 12:54 PM
I read an article that said the Dodgers are interested in either Renteria or Cabrera, leaning towards Cabrera.

Link?

Scottiehaswheels
11-21-2008, 01:02 PM
Link?http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/dodgers/la-sp-shaikin14-2008nov14,0,1168314.story?page=2

This guy may be the notorious L.A. hack I've heard of, though I'm not sure.

Lorenzo Barcelo
12-01-2008, 11:31 AM
Has OC been offered arbitration? Is today the last day to offer it?

Lundind1
12-01-2008, 11:43 AM
Has OC been offered arbitration? Is today the last day to offer it?

Today is the last day to offer and then he has till Dec. 7th to decline it. The deadline for offering it tonight is 11pm Chicago time. So there is still time to make that happen. Last minute is not always a bad thing. Might be a KW ploy to get OC thinking.

DirtySox
12-01-2008, 11:58 AM
According to an article on the Sox website, they are likely to offer OC arbitration, while confirming that Griffey and Uribe will not be offered.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081128&content_id=3695489&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

CashMan
12-01-2008, 12:02 PM
Today is the last day to offer and then he has till Dec. 7th to decline it. The deadline for offering it tonight is 11pm Chicago time. So there is still time to make that happen. Last minute is not always a bad thing. Might be a KW ploy to get OC thinking.

Would it really be a bad thing if he accepts it?

russ99
12-01-2008, 12:02 PM
If for some reason Orlando accepts arb (which I don't see happening) can't the Sox walk away from his contract at some point?
I believe it's mutual that Cabrera and the Sox have no interest in a return for OC next season.

It would be really dumb for the Sox not to offer and miss out on those free draft picks...

Lundind1
12-01-2008, 12:05 PM
Would it really be a bad thing if he accepts it?

Oh no, I was not saying that it would be a bad thing at all. I meant that they may be able to negotiate him down from the salary level that he is at now.

oeo
12-01-2008, 12:08 PM
Would it really be a bad thing if he accepts it?

It wouldn't be terrible, but I'd like to move on. He's not the player everyone says he is.

CashMan
12-01-2008, 12:10 PM
Oh no, I was not saying that it would be a bad thing at all. I meant that they may be able to negotiate him down from the salary level that he is at now.


I know what you meant. The consensus from the board is that no one wants him back. If he was to take it, I don't think it would be all that bad. We would still need a leadoff hitter but he is a good #2 hitter.

oeo
12-01-2008, 12:14 PM
I know what you meant. The consensus from the board is that no one wants him back. If he was to take it, I don't think it would be all that bad. We would still need a leadoff hitter but he is a good #2 hitter.

I don't think he's good at either 1 or 2 in the lineup. :shrug:

CashMan
12-01-2008, 12:15 PM
I don't think he's good at either 1 or 2 in the lineup. :shrug:

Really? I would agree with #1, then again he didn't really have a good leadoff hitter this past year in front of him.

btrain929
12-01-2008, 10:30 PM
Deadline for offering arb, I believe, is 11pm CST. I've been looking on MLBTR, Sun Times, and Tribune, and haven't seen any updates with Cabrera. I hope KW doesn't someway somehow get cold feet and NOT offer it to Cabrera. There's already been a few surprises in the arbitration game (Abreu, Dunn not being offered, etc).

DrCrawdad
12-01-2008, 10:35 PM
Deadline for offering arb, I believe, is 11pm CST. I've been looking on MLBTR, Sun Times, and Tribune, and haven't seen any updates with Cabrera. I hope KW doesn't someway somehow get cold feet and NOT offer it to Cabrera. There's already been a few surprises in the arbitration game (Abreu, Dunn not being offered, etc).

I say the Sox do not offer Cabrera arbitration.

PalehosePlanet
12-01-2008, 10:46 PM
15 minutes left and nothing yet.

C'mon Kenny don't get cold feet now. There is no way he'll accept it.

btrain929
12-01-2008, 10:49 PM
Hopefully it's just done quietly and it'll be reported in the morning...

Edit: Mark Gonzalez put this up around 10:20pm:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-02-whitesox-chicagodec02,0,1142100.story

He doesn't say he's heard that KW is not going to offer arb, and his agent says there's interest in Cabrera from 4-6 teams. Gonzalez still seems optimistic....

soxfanreggie
12-01-2008, 11:20 PM
Hmmm, haven't heard anything more on this. I hope we offered it. I would be 95% sure he wouldn't accept.

Sockinchisox
12-02-2008, 12:08 AM
He was offered arbitration.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/wires/12/01/2010.ap.bbo.free.agents.arbitration.1st.ld.writeth ru.0580/

HomeFish
12-02-2008, 12:12 AM
He was offered arbitration.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/wires/12/01/2010.ap.bbo.free.agents.arbitration.1st.ld.writeth ru.0580/

Woohoo!

DirtySox
12-02-2008, 12:13 AM
Yay! Now I can go to sleep. :smile:

btrain929
12-02-2008, 12:20 AM
Yay! Now I can go to sleep. :smile:

Haha, seriously. That's all I was waiting for. Now, hopefully he or his agent will call in to decline it quicker than he used to call up to the official scorer's box to argue an error....

Lundind1
12-02-2008, 12:53 AM
Haha, seriously. That's all I was waiting for. Now, hopefully he or his agent will call in to decline it quicker than he used to call up to the official scorer's box to argue an error....

Bahhh Zing!!! :rolling:

I think that this is another good step toward building the minors and getting some top rate talent in addition to what we have already nabbed.

guillensdisciple
12-02-2008, 12:57 AM
Cabrera on a one year deal would be a dream scenerio for Kenny. We can keep Alexei at 2nd for another year, have a good #2 who can leadoff, and give Beckham a full year to develop. Or, if he's ready, trade Cabrera mid-season when his value will be it's highest.

Exactly, why not? I hope he accepts, that could seriously give the White Sox a gold mine of young talent that they are looking for. Already we have bolstered our farm system, keeping Cabrera and then trading him at his peak will finally allow all sox fans to breathe easier when looking at our farm system.

Not that he is going to do it, but there is hope that he will, who knows, we could have won the whole thing had Quentin not been injured.... maybe he will see that and accept.

Edit: He accepted, phase one of dream is complete.

Shibby!

btrain929
12-02-2008, 01:10 AM
Exactly, why not? I hope he accepts, that could seriously give the White Sox a gold mine of young talent that they are looking for. Already we have bolstered our farm system, keeping Cabrera and then trading him at his peak will finally allow all sox fans to breathe easier when looking at our farm system.

Not that he is going to do it, but there is hope that he will, who knows, we could have won the whole thing had Quentin not been injured.... maybe he will see that and accept.

Edit: He accepted, phase one of dream is complete.

Shibby!

We offered arbitration to him. We won't know if he accepts or not for a few days since he has up until Sunday to decide. But no, Cabrera hasn't accepted arbitration, and he isn't expected to.

DrCrawdad
12-02-2008, 07:07 AM
We offered arbitration to him. We won't know if he accepts or not for a few days since he has up until Sunday to decide. But no, Cabrera hasn't accepted arbitration, and he isn't expected to.

I would think it would be very strange for Cabrera to accept arbitration. Why accept a one year contract over a multi-year deal.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q81/Jay-crush/1d8b8217e1f6f9d665e6e1f6a91e285e.jpg

DirtySox
12-02-2008, 07:36 AM
Exactly, why not? I hope he accepts, that could seriously give the White Sox a gold mine of young talent that they are looking for. Already we have bolstered our farm system, keeping Cabrera and then trading him at his peak will finally allow all sox fans to breathe easier when looking at our farm system.

Not that he is going to do it, but there is hope that he will, who knows, we could have won the whole thing had Quentin not been injured.... maybe he will see that and accept.

Edit: He accepted, phase one of dream is complete.

Shibby!


Huh?

Him accepting arbitration doesn't help our farm system at all. He needs to decline it, then sign elsewhere for us to obtain any extra draft picks.

esbrechtel
12-02-2008, 08:29 AM
Huh?

Him accepting arbitration doesn't help our farm system at all. He needs to decline it, then sign elsewhere for us to obtain any extra draft picks.

He is assuming IF he accepts we trade him at the deadline for prospects and picks...

palehozenychicty
12-02-2008, 08:51 AM
Exactly, why not? I hope he accepts, that could seriously give the White Sox a gold mine of young talent that they are looking for. Already we have bolstered our farm system, keeping Cabrera and then trading him at his peak will finally allow all sox fans to breathe easier when looking at our farm system.

Not that he is going to do it, but there is hope that he will, who knows, we could have won the whole thing had Quentin not been injured.... maybe he will see that and accept.

Edit: He accepted, phase one of dream is complete.

Shibby!


Honestly, I'd rather have the picks, but that's just me. I'm also worried that few teams have been linked to him, but time will settle that.

As for your second statement, it's possible, but unlikely. Tampa exposed our flaws pretty well.

ode to veeck
12-02-2008, 09:52 AM
Edit: He accepted, phase one of dream is complete.



link? can't find anything on this

The Immigrant
12-02-2008, 10:19 AM
link? can't find anything on this

There's an SI link about ten posts above.

Nellie_Fox
12-02-2008, 10:30 AM
link? can't find anything on this

There's an SI link about ten posts above.
He was asking for a link that says Cabrera accepted arbitration. That article merely says he was offered. I doubt that he's going to accept at all, much less in the middle of the night.

guillensdisciple
12-02-2008, 10:31 AM
We offered arbitration to him. We won't know if he accepts or not for a few days since he has up until Sunday to decide. But no, Cabrera hasn't accepted arbitration, and he isn't expected to.


Woops, thanks for the correction.

voodoochile
12-02-2008, 10:48 AM
I would think it would be very strange for Cabrera to accept arbitration. Why accept a one year contract over a multi-year deal.



Problem is there aren't as many benjamins free flowing around this off season due to the shaky nature of the economy. Also, give the fact he just had one of his better years from a stats perspective he might be able to ask for and win a hefty raise. If the Sox tried to lowball their offer (80% of last year) he could ask for $13M or more and the arbitrator would probably go with Cabrera because no way he could justify a pay cut based on how OC performed last year.

That's where things get sticky. If OC thinks things will loosen up next year he might take the money for a single season now and figure he won't be that much worse next year. Heck he could take a one year shorter deal at a higher rate and still be better off than he would be this year when he might not see much above a 5/50 offer if that. FA market looks really tight right now. No one is spending. OC accepting wouldn't be the strangest thing that ever happened...

jabrch
12-02-2008, 10:56 AM
OC accepting wouldn't be the strangest thing that ever happened...

Nor would it be the worst thing that ever happened. I know he wasn't the most popular guy on Ozzie's bus this year, but if he was back on a 1 year deal, maybe he'd be more motivated to play ball when he realizes what he may have lost by his performance/antics last year.

I still like OC in the right role - even though I was less than thrilled with some of his stuff this season.

oeo
12-02-2008, 12:00 PM
Nor would it be the worst thing that ever happened. I know he wasn't the most popular guy on Ozzie's bus this year, but if he was back on a 1 year deal, maybe he'd be more motivated to play ball when he realizes what he may have lost by his performance/antics last year.

I still like OC in the right role - even though I was less than thrilled with some of his stuff this season.

What's the right role? Don't tell me a #2 hitter, because he blows in that role.

I don't want Cabrera back. He wasn't the player he was advertised as.

Tekijawa
12-02-2008, 12:17 PM
What's the right role? Don't tell me a #2 hitter, because he blows in that role.

Maybe 1st base and batting in the 5th spot when Konerko get's traded to the Angels

soxfanreggie
12-02-2008, 12:28 PM
Just got news on our Bloomberg that Cabrera was offered arbitration. I'd rather be "stuck" with him for one more year than risk giving up the infuse of talent we can get from those draft picks. We need those picks to help rebuild our farm system if he goes elsewhere.

You could always trade him as well.

jabrch
12-02-2008, 03:01 PM
What's the right role? Don't tell me a #2 hitter, because he blows in that role.

He hits .286/.338 in the #2 hole. Handles the bat well, moves runners, and can work a count. He doesn't strike out hardly at all.

Blows? Me thinks you are exaggerating.

jcw218
12-02-2008, 03:16 PM
The White Sox have announced that they have offered Cabrera arbitration. Of the 6 free agents, Cabrera is the only one who received arbitration.

Link (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081202&content_id=3698496&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws)

JorgeFabregas
12-02-2008, 04:00 PM
Problem is there aren't as many benjamins free flowing around this off season due to the shaky nature of the economy. Also, give the fact he just had one of his better years from a stats perspective he might be able to ask for and win a hefty raise. If the Sox tried to lowball their offer (80% of last year) he could ask for $13M or more and the arbitrator would probably go with Cabrera because no way he could justify a pay cut based on how OC performed last year.

That's where things get sticky. If OC thinks things will loosen up next year he might take the money for a single season now and figure he won't be that much worse next year. Heck he could take a one year shorter deal at a higher rate and still be better off than he would be this year when he might not see much above a 5/50 offer if that. FA market looks really tight right now. No one is spending. OC accepting wouldn't be the strangest thing that ever happened...
I seriously doubt he would accept. There's no guarantee that money will be any looser next year and he could get injured in the meantime. He'll seek and receive a mutli-year deal. Even if it's a 2 year deal @ $8 per (which would be on the low, low side), he would have more guaranteed money than any feasible arbitration scenario.

soxrme
12-02-2008, 04:04 PM
We offer it to this guy and didn't with Maggs? I will never understand that.

oeo
12-02-2008, 04:06 PM
He hits .286/.338 in the #2 hole. Handles the bat well, moves runners, and can work a count.

He doesn't do any of that. I must have missed his superb bat handling skills, his ability to not roll over to the left side with a man on second and no one out or lay down a ****ing bunt. Oh, and how many times did he just go up there hacking and make a quick out?

If all you do is look at his batting average, he had a pretty good season for us. But he didn't do those little things he was supposed to do (and you still claim he does). In fact, he was a pretty selfish player if you ask me. Add in that he was a total dick in the clubhouse on multiple occasions, and that's enough for me to say I hope his White Sox career is over.

palehozenychicty
12-02-2008, 04:09 PM
He doesn't do any of that. I must have missed his superb bat handling skills, his ability to not roll over to the left side with a man on second and no one out or lay down a ****ing bunt. Oh, and how many times did he just go up there hacking and make a quick out?

If all you do is look at his batting average, he had a pretty good season for us. But he didn't do those little things he was supposed to do (and you still claim he does). In fact, he was a pretty selfish player if you ask me. Add in that he was a total dick in the clubhouse on multiple occasions, and that's enough for me to say I hope his White Sox career is over.


Thank you. To invert Denny Green, he was not who we thought he was.

HomeFish
12-02-2008, 04:11 PM
We offer it to this guy and didn't with Maggs? I will never understand that.

Cabrera didn't have a potentially career-ending injury.

DumpJerry
12-02-2008, 04:20 PM
We offer it to this guy and didn't with Maggs? I will never understand that.
There was a good chance we would have been stuck with an injured Maggs. Nobody was talking to him (that we knew of) and if he accepted, he would have been expensive. Remember, Kenny said they would think about it if he released his medical records to the team. He refused.

jabrch
12-02-2008, 04:21 PM
We offer it to this guy and didn't with Maggs? I will never understand that.

Magglio was not healthy, wouldn't share his medical records with our staff, went to Europe for a surgical procedure, and would have made no less that 12mm. Apples to Oranges

He doesn't do any of that. I must have missed his superb bat handling skills, his ability to not roll over to the left side with a man on second and no one out or lay down a ****ing bunt. Oh, and how many times did he just go up there hacking and make a quick out?

If all you do is look at his batting average, he had a pretty good season for us. But he didn't do those little things he was supposed to do (and you still claim he does). In fact, he was a pretty selfish player if you ask me. Add in that he was a total dick in the clubhouse on multiple occasions, and that's enough for me to say I hope his White Sox career is over.

You can talk all you want about the times you saw him not succeed. But that doesn't change the facts. He is one of the hardest players in baseball to strike out. His K/AB ratio is extremely low. He did do a nice job in the two hole. Not great - but good enough that having him back for one season is, as I said, not the worst thing in the world.

You took that to saying he "blows". I guess that is a relative term, but unless your threshold to blow is very high, I don't see how you make that arguement.

Jimmy Piersall
12-02-2008, 04:24 PM
He doesn't do any of that. I must have missed his superb bat handling skills, his ability to not roll over to the left side with a man on second and no one out or lay down a ****ing bunt. Oh, and how many times did he just go up there hacking and make a quick out?

If all you do is look at his batting average, he had a pretty good season for us. But he didn't do those little things he was supposed to do (and you still claim he does). In fact, he was a pretty selfish player if you ask me. Add in that he was a total dick in the clubhouse on multiple occasions, and that's enough for me to say I hope his White Sox career is over.

I must say,after seeing him for a couple of years out here with the Angels
he wasn't quite the same player for us last year.As far as hitting goes,he
led off for the Sox and always hit in the 2 hole with LAA.That might explain some of the hitting differences but not all.I also thought we were
getting a gold glover but he wasn't that good for us either.As far as being a totally selfish slob,that's not even debatable.Let's hope he moves on and we get the picks.

oeo
12-02-2008, 04:27 PM
You can talk all you want about the times you saw him not succeed. But that doesn't change the facts. He is one of the hardest players in baseball to strike out. His K/AB ratio is extremely low.

What are you even talking about? Who gives a ****? So he doesn't strike out, that doesn't mean he handles the bat well. Crede doesn't strike out, either...

He did do a nice job in the two hole. Not great - but good enough that having him back for one season is, as I said, not the worst thing in the world.

He wasn't even there very long. I'm making my judgments over the course of the season where he had good opportunities to show off those "skills." Let's just say, I wasn't impressed.

You took that to saying he "blows". I guess that is a relative term, but unless your threshold to blow is very high, I don't see how you make that arguement.

As a #2 hitter? Yes, he's not very good. He doesn't do the things you claim he does. Oh, but he doesn't strike out.

jabrch
12-02-2008, 04:37 PM
As a #2 hitter? Yes, he's not very good. He doesn't do the things you claim he does. Oh, but he doesn't strike out.

That's your opinion - that he blows...You are entitled to it.

voodoochile
12-02-2008, 05:04 PM
There was a good chance we would have been stuck with an injured Maggs. Nobody was talking to him (that we knew of) and if he accepted, he would have been expensive. Remember, Kenny said they would think about it if he released his medical records to the team. He refused.

Yeah, and last time I checked the guy they got to replace Maggs did a damned fine job, won a WS MVP and has pretty much matched Maggs output over the same time period for a lot less money.

Anyone want to go back and replay 2005 with Maggs and his hernia missing the second half of the season instead of Dye in RF all year long?

Heck, anyone want to go back and replay 2005 with the chance the Sox don't win the WS that season at all?

Time to let it go. Maggs is a roider too. I'd bet good money on it.

btrain929
12-07-2008, 02:54 PM
So let the countdown begin for whether or not Cabrera accepts arbitration. When is the deadline, tonight at midnight? I've read in a few places (Olney, Heyman) they expect him to decline. Hopefully they're right.

DirtySox
12-07-2008, 03:08 PM
Midnight Eastern I believe.

sox1970
12-07-2008, 03:13 PM
:popcorn:

Jimmy John
12-07-2008, 03:18 PM
i've heard conflicting rumors, but the fact that it's taken him this long somewhat worries me. i know he likely won't be in a white sox uniform next season regardless, but i'd much rather receive the draft picks than what we'd receive for his mediocre trade value.

sox1970
12-07-2008, 03:22 PM
i've heard conflicting rumors, but the fact that it's taken him this long somewhat worries me. i know he likely won't be in a white sox uniform next season regardless, but i'd much rather receive the draft picks than what we'd receive for his mediocre trade value.

I don't think any of the free agents that were offered arbitration have announced their decisions. Probably won't hear anything until very late tonight or Monday morning.

kjhanson
12-07-2008, 03:28 PM
What are you even talking about? Who gives a ****? So he doesn't strike out, that doesn't mean he handles the bat well. Crede doesn't strike out, either...


Cabrera: 564 Ks in 5962 career ABs (9.5%)
Crede: 403 Ks in 2768 career ABs (14.6%)

Compared to Jim Thome, Crede doesn't strikeout much. But compared to Cabrera, he strikes out quite a bit.

Scottiehaswheels
12-07-2008, 03:35 PM
As much as it pains me to say this... Is the '10 draft class better than the '09 one? Maybe he accepts and we keep him around another year to get slightly better prospects in '10?
I am now punching myself in the face for having this thought.

btrain929
12-07-2008, 03:43 PM
As much as it pains me to say this... Is the '10 draft class better than the '09 one? Maybe he accepts and we keep him around another year to get slightly better prospects in '10?
I am now punching myself in the face for having this thought.

I don't know about '10, but I did read a few times that the '09 class was supposed to be a lot deeper than the '08 draft class.

chisox123
12-07-2008, 04:01 PM
They should just offer it to him because there are at least five teams out there looking for a good shortstop and when they sign him we'll get two draft picks, no way does he want to come back here, and even if he does come back then that's not a bad thing, he played good last year.

oeo
12-07-2008, 04:13 PM
Cabrera: 564 Ks in 5962 career ABs (9.5%)
Crede: 403 Ks in 2768 career ABs (14.6%)

Compared to Jim Thome, Crede doesn't strikeout much. But compared to Cabrera, he strikes out quite a bit.

Thanks, but that wasn't my point. Just because he doesn't strikeout much does not mean he handles the bat extremely well. Putting the ball in play != good bat handling. Putting it in play could mean a pop up, a weak ground out, etc.

cards press box
12-07-2008, 04:34 PM
With regard to Orlando Cabrera, the Sox face three possibilities, all of which could be beneficial to the team:

(1) OC rejects arbitration and signs elsewhere. In this scenario, the Sox get another 1st round pick and a "sandwich" pick in the 2009 amateur draft. This would give 4 picks in, I believe, the top 80 and the opportunity to fortify the minor league system.

(2) OC accepts arbitration and the Sox decide to trade him. Hopefully, such a trade will fill a need (e.g., leadoff man, centerfielder or back of the rotation starter) or re-stock minor league talent.

(3) OC accepts arbitration and the Sox decide to keep him.


If OC accepts arbitration, I assume that the Sox would keep him unless they could acquire an equal or better leadoff man/#2 hitter in a trade. In any event, the Sox did the right thing when they offered him arbitration.

btrain929
12-07-2008, 04:47 PM
They should just offer it to him because there are at least five teams out there looking for a good shortstop and when they sign him we'll get two draft picks, no way does he want to come back here, and even if he does come back then that's not a bad thing, he played good last year.

Uhhhmmm, they already offered it to him. It's not up to him to accept or not.

btrain929
12-07-2008, 04:49 PM
With regard to Orlando Cabrera, the Sox face three possibilities, all of which could be beneficial to the team:

(1) OC rejects arbitration and signs elsewhere. In this scenario, the Sox get another 1st round pick and a "sandwich" pick in the 2009 amateur draft. This would give 4 picks in, I believe, the top 80 and the opportunity to fortify the minor league system.

That could happen, but if the team that signs him drafts in the first 15 slots, we'd get a sandwich pick, and an extra 2nd round pick. So it's not a given we'll be getting an extra 1st rd pick, FYI.

DirtySox
12-07-2008, 04:55 PM
I think the first 16 are protected this year due to the Nationals failing to sign Aaron Crow.

btrain929
12-07-2008, 04:56 PM
I think the first 16 are protected this year due to the Nationals failing to sign Aaron Crow.

Yep.

Daver
12-07-2008, 05:06 PM
Uhhhmmm, they already offered it to him. It's not up to him to accept or not.

What?

DirtySox
12-07-2008, 05:08 PM
I think he meant "It's now up to him to accept or not."

Rockabilly
12-07-2008, 06:36 PM
what time is the deadline tonight

itsnotrequired
12-07-2008, 06:43 PM
what time is the deadline tonight

midnight, eastern time

Rockabilly
12-07-2008, 06:50 PM
midnight, eastern time


thank you for the info...

GoGoCrede
12-07-2008, 07:10 PM
midnight, eastern time

I was going to be up anyway because of finals, now this gives me something to look forward to (besides studying for this atrocious exam tomorrow). I'd be fine with either outcome.

Tragg
12-07-2008, 07:16 PM
With regard to Orlando Cabrera, the Sox face three possibilities, all of which could be beneficial to the team:

(1) OC rejects arbitration and signs elsewhere. In this scenario, the Sox get another 1st round pick and a "sandwich" pick in the 2009 amateur draft. This would give 4 picks in, I believe, the top 80 and the opportunity to fortify the minor league system.

(2) OC accepts arbitration and the Sox decide to trade him. Hopefully, such a trade will fill a need (e.g., leadoff man, centerfielder or back of the rotation starter) or re-stock minor league talent.

(3) OC accepts arbitration and the Sox decide to keep him.


If OC accepts arbitration, I assume that the Sox would keep him unless they could acquire an equal or better leadoff man/#2 hitter in a trade. In any event, the Sox did the right thing when they offered him arbitration.
What about (4) Cabrera rejects arbitration, but no one signs him out of salary concerns and not wanting to fork over high draft choices. speaking of which, how does the sandwhich pick work? How does a team "give up" a sandwhich pick? Or is it just an additional pick?

2906
12-07-2008, 07:31 PM
What about (4) Cabrera rejects arbitration, but no one signs him out of salary concerns and not wanting to fork over high draft choices. speaking of which, how does the sandwhich pick work? How does a team "give up" a sandwhich pick? Or is it just an additional pick?

It's just an additional pick, between rounds.

cards press box
12-07-2008, 08:42 PM
What about (4) Cabrera rejects arbitration, but no one signs him out of salary concerns and not wanting to fork over high draft choices. speaking of which, how does the sandwhich pick work? How does a team "give up" a sandwhich pick? Or is it just an additional pick?

I don't know what happens if OC rejects arbitration but no team signs him. That scenario seems unlikely to me, as OC would be an asset on any team in pennant contention who needs help in the middle infield.

DirtySox
12-07-2008, 10:01 PM
Rejected

According to SI.com's Jon Heyman (http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/29961-cabrera-declines-white-soxs-arbitration-offer), Orlando Cabrera will decline Chicago's offer of arbitration. Ken Williams can rest easy. Cabrera's a Type A, so the Sox will score two draft picks if he signs elsewhere. There's an extra tax of one draft pick for the team that signs him.

soxfanreggie
12-07-2008, 10:29 PM
:D:

Two high draft picks!!!

Hopefully we put them to good use and keep stocking our farm system. I think we're very good on middle infielders right now. I wouldn't mind a speedy outfielder with one of the picks.

RedPinStripes
12-07-2008, 10:31 PM
Rejected

According to SI.com's Jon Heyman (http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/29961-cabrera-declines-white-soxs-arbitration-offer), Orlando Cabrera will decline Chicago's offer of arbitration. Ken Williams can rest easy. Cabrera's a Type A, so the Sox will score two draft picks if he signs elsewhere. There's an extra tax of one draft pick for the team that signs him.

Nice!

btrain929
12-07-2008, 10:32 PM
I think he meant "It's now up to him to accept or not."

My fault, yes this is what I meant.

DumpJerry
12-07-2008, 10:40 PM
Do the Nats need a Shortstop?

btrain929
12-07-2008, 10:44 PM
Do the Nats need a Shortstop?

Best case scenario is if the Dodgers sign him.

Jimmy John
12-07-2008, 11:17 PM
hmmm, i could see OC in blue and white.

hell, i'm happy as long as it's not black and white.

:bandance:

DumpJerry
12-07-2008, 11:26 PM
Best case scenario is if the Dodgers sign him.
Why? The Nats had the worst record in MLB in 2008. They have the best (highest) pics to give us. The Dodgers made the playoffs, their picks are not as good.

Scottiehaswheels
12-07-2008, 11:29 PM
Why? The Nats had the worst record in MLB in 2008. They have the best (highest) pics to give us. The Dodgers made the playoffs, their picks are not as good.Worst to 15th worst teams picks are protected in the first round. Dodgers were like the 16th or 17th worst team in MLB by record, hence we get their pick at 17th or 18th. I guess the Nats get a free pick for not signing a draft pick last year, so 17th or 18th depending on where the Dodgers record fell.

ilsox7
12-07-2008, 11:30 PM
Why? The Nats had the worst record in MLB in 2008. They have the best (highest) pics to give us. The Dodgers made the playoffs, their picks are not as good.

We would not get the Nats' 1st round pick. I think whoever picks 17th would be our best case scenario.

EDIT: Beaten like a drum.

DirtySox
12-07-2008, 11:30 PM
The first 16 picks are protected. The Dodgers pick is the highest we can potentially acquire.

btrain929
12-07-2008, 11:33 PM
Why? The Nats had the worst record in MLB in 2008. They have the best (highest) pics to give us. The Dodgers made the playoffs, their picks are not as good.

The first 16 picks are protected. The Dodgers pick is the highest we can potentially acquire.

Exactly, DirtySox. If the Nats signed him, we would get a sandwich pick and a 2nd rd pick. If the Dodgers signed him, we'd get a 1st rd pick (17th I think), and a sandwich pick. Scenario #2 > Scenario #1.

DirtySox
12-07-2008, 11:43 PM
17th is correct. For reference:

Protected First-Round Picks
1. Nationals (59-102)
2. Mariners (61-101)
3. Padres (63-99)
4. Pirates (67-95)
5. Orioles (68-93)
6. Giants (72-90)
7. Braves (72-90)
8. Reds (74-88)
9. Tigers (74-88)
10. Nationals (Compensation for failure to sign Aaron Crow)
11. Rockies (74-88)
12. Royals (75-87)
13. Athletics (75-86)
14. Rangers (79-83)
15. Indians (81-81)
16. Diamondbacks (82-80)
Unprotected First-Round Picks
17. Dodgers (84-78)
18. Marlins (84-77)
19. Cardinals (86-76)
20. Blue Jays (86-76)
21. Mariners (Compensation for failure to sign Joshua Fields)
22. Astros (86-75)
23. Twins (88-75)
24. White Sox (89-74)
25. Mets (89-73)
26. Yankees (89-73)
27. Brewers (90-72)
28. Phillies (92-70)
29. Yankees (Compensation for failure to sign Gerrit Cole)
30. Red Sox (95-67)
31. Rays (97-65)
32. Cubs (97-64)
33. Angels (100-62)

DumpJerry
12-07-2008, 11:45 PM
Exactly, DirtySox. If the Nats signed him, we would get a sandwich pick and a 2nd rd pick. If the Dodgers signed him, we'd get a 1st rd pick (17th I think), and a sandwich pick. Scenario #2 > Scenario #1.
Did not know that.


Ok. Go Dodgers!!!!!!

btrain929
12-07-2008, 11:47 PM
17th is correct. For reference:

Protected First-Round Picks
1. Nationals (59-102)
2. Mariners (61-101)
3. Padres (63-99)
4. Pirates (67-95)
5. Orioles (68-93)
6. Giants (72-90)
7. Braves (72-90)
8. Reds (74-88)
9. Tigers (74-88)
10. Nationals (Compensation for failure to sign Aaron Crow)
11. Rockies (74-88)
12. Royals (75-87)
13. Athletics (75-86)
14. Rangers (79-83)
15. Indians (81-81)
16. Diamondbacks (82-80)
Unprotected First-Round Picks
17. Dodgers (84-78)
18. Marlins (84-77)
19. Cardinals (86-76)
20. Blue Jays (86-76)
21. Mariners (Compensation for failure to sign Joshua Fields)
22. Astros (86-75)
23. Twins (88-75)
24. White Sox (89-74)
25. Mets (89-73)
26. Yankees (89-73)
27. Brewers (90-72)
28. Phillies (92-70)
29. Yankees (Compensation for failure to sign Gerrit Cole)
30. Red Sox (95-67)
31. Rays (97-65)
32. Cubs (97-64)
33. Angels (100-62)

The only other wrench that can be thrown in is the 21st pick compensation for the Mariners, because they actually have until draft day '09 to sign Fields since he's done with college....

Scottiehaswheels
12-07-2008, 11:47 PM
While I think the only thing I can commend Cabrera for during his time here was not accepting arb., does anyone know the order in which supplemental picks are taken? If the Dodgers sign Cabrera we would get both the 17th and what else? A lower 30's pick? 40's?

oeo
12-08-2008, 12:23 AM
Did not know that.

Otherwise, Scott Linebrink == no Gordon Beckham.

cws05champ
12-08-2008, 08:01 AM
While I think the only thing I can commend Cabrera for during his time here was not accepting arb., does anyone know the order in which supplemental picks are taken? If the Dodgers sign Cabrera we would get both the 17th and what else? A lower 30's pick? 40's?
Here is the current compensation and the remaining FA with A or B status. How that translates into what # pick in the supp round I don't know, but I suspect it correlates to the signing team's position in the 1st round. So if a team that drafts above the Giants signed a FA the team losing the player would jump into the 34th spot and move the Reds down.

Supplemental First-Round Picks
34. Reds (Jeremy Affeldt, B, to SF)
Second-Round Changes
49. Pirates (for failure to sign 2008 second-rounder Tanner Scheppers)
Third-Round Changes
76. Yankees (for failure to sign 2008 second-rounder Scott Bittle)
Supplemental Third-Round Picks
97. Astros (for failure to sign 2008 third-rounder Chase Davidson)
Remaining Compensation Free Agents
Ari: Juan Cruz (A), Orlando Hudson (A), Brandon Lyon (B).
Bos: Jason Varitek (A), Paul Byrd (B).
CWS: Orlando Cabrera (A).
Col: Brian Fuentes (A).
KC: Mark Grudzielanek (B).
LAA: Francisco Rodriguez (A), Mark Teixeira (A), Jon Garland (B).
LAD: Derek Lowe (A), Manny Ramirez (A), Casey Blake (B).
Mil: C.C. Sabathia (A), Ben Sheets (A), Brian Shouse (B).
Min: Dennys Reyes (B).
NYM: Oliver Perez (A).
Sea: Raul Ibanez (A).
Tex: Milton Bradley (B).
Tor: A.J. Burnett (A).

Scottiehaswheels
12-08-2008, 08:05 AM
Here is the current compensation and the remaining FA with A or B status. How that translates into what # pick in the supp round I don't know, but I suspect it correlates to the signing team's position in the 1st round. So if a team that drafts above the Giants signed a FA the team losing the player would jump into the 34th spot and move the Reds down.

Supplemental First-Round Picks
34. Reds (Jeremy Affeldt, B, to SF)
Second-Round Changes
49. Pirates (for failure to sign 2008 second-rounder Tanner Scheppers)
Third-Round Changes
76. Yankees (for failure to sign 2008 second-rounder Scott Bittle)
Supplemental Third-Round Picks
97. Astros (for failure to sign 2008 third-rounder Chase Davidson)
Remaining Compensation Free Agents
Ari: Juan Cruz (A), Orlando Hudson (A), Brandon Lyon (B).
Bos: Jason Varitek (A), Paul Byrd (B).
CWS: Orlando Cabrera (A).
Col: Brian Fuentes (A).
KC: Mark Grudzielanek (B).
LAA: Francisco Rodriguez (A), Mark Teixeira (A), Jon Garland (B).
LAD: Derek Lowe (A), Manny Ramirez (A), Casey Blake (B).
Mil: C.C. Sabathia (A), Ben Sheets (A), Brian Shouse (B).
Min: Dennys Reyes (B).
NYM: Oliver Perez (A).
Sea: Raul Ibanez (A).
Tex: Milton Bradley (B).
Tor: A.J. Burnett (A).
Awesome breakdown, thanks. I guess we should really be rooting for the Boston's/New Yorks to be spending a ton of money then huh?

Rockabilly
12-08-2008, 09:30 AM
will be awesome to have 4 picks out of the top 80...

BadBobbyJenks
12-08-2008, 09:42 AM
Bruce Levine is reporting the Tiggers are talking to OC.

btrain929
12-08-2008, 09:49 AM
Bruce Levine is reporting the Tiggers are talking to OC.

Good thing: I have one more reason to despise the Tigers.
Bad thing: We don't get an additional 1st rd pick.

jabrch
12-08-2008, 10:03 AM
Did not know that.


Ok. Go Dodgers!!!!!!

One caveat - if the Dogers sign MULTIPLE Type A guys, then the first rounder goes to the team who has the higher ranked player taken from them, and then the second (as subsequent) teams get subsequent rounders.

chisoxmike
12-08-2008, 10:07 AM
I've never people get so excited over potential baseball draft picks than in this thread.

doublem23
12-08-2008, 10:15 AM
I've never people get so excited over potential baseball draft picks than in this thread.

Our farm system has been depleted, we need some talent in it badly.

sox1970
12-08-2008, 10:16 AM
I've never people get so excited over potential baseball draft picks than in this thread.

No kidding. Let's look at 1999. Sox had 7 of the top 100 picks. They took Jason Stumm, Matt Ginter, Brian West, Rob Purvis, Dan Wright, Bobby Hill, and Jon Rauch.

Passed up others that landed in the top 100--John Lackey, Brian Roberts, Carl Crawford, Justin Morneau, and Brandon Phillips.

:whiner:

veeter
12-08-2008, 10:19 AM
No kidding. Let's look at 1999. Sox had 7 of the top 100 picks. They took Jason Stumm, Matt Ginter, Brian West, Rob Purvis, Dan Wright, Bobby Hill, and Jon Rauch.

Passed up others that landed in the top 100--John Lackey, Brian Roberts, Carl Crawford, Justin Morneau, and Brandon Phillips.

:whiner:That's freakin' horrible.

doublem23
12-08-2008, 10:20 AM
That's freakin' horrible.

The Sox have been notoriously poor drafters since the early 90s.

2906
12-08-2008, 10:22 AM
Bruce Levine is reporting the Tiggers are talking to OC.

He's a good fit for them on a two year plus an option type deal. I think they have some in house options that are just about two years away.

Nor do I think the Tigers will be that concerned about giving up a 2nd round draft pick.

chisoxmike
12-08-2008, 10:24 AM
Bruce Levine is reporting the Tiggers are talking to OC.

That would be pretty funny if he ends up on the Tigers after Renteria left. Aren't he and Edgar Renteria at war?

sox1970
12-08-2008, 10:29 AM
No kidding. Let's look at 1999. Sox had 7 of the top 100 picks. They took Jason Stumm, Matt Ginter, Brian West, Rob Purvis, Dan Wright, Bobby Hill, and Jon Rauch.

Passed up others that landed in the top 100--John Lackey, Brian Roberts, Carl Crawford, Justin Morneau, and Brandon Phillips.

:whiner:

Forgot one--Alex Rios. We suck.

dickallen15
12-08-2008, 10:31 AM
No kidding. Let's look at 1999. Sox had 7 of the top 100 picks. They took Jason Stumm, Matt Ginter, Brian West, Rob Purvis, Dan Wright, Bobby Hill, and Jon Rauch.

Passed up others that landed in the top 100--John Lackey, Brian Roberts, Carl Crawford, Justin Morneau, and Brandon Phillips.

:whiner:

In 2004 they had 6 picks in the first 2 rounds.
Josh Fields
Gio Gonzalez
Tyler Lundsen
Wes Whistler
Donny Lucy
Ray Liotta

They also chose Matt Hansen with the 86th pick in the 3rd round.

Not anyone setting the world on fire 4 years later. One guy they passed on for 4 of those picks is the AL MVP.

I think people looking for immediate or within 5 years impact on draft picks acquired for Cabrera leaving are kidding themselves. Chances are they will just be busts.

The excuse that was given of the poor Sox draft record being draft position is totally bunk. Some of the choices they made through the years show even if they were picking near the top, bad picks most likely would have occured.

Of course, there really doesn't seem to be a whole like of potential coming out of the first several rounds of the 2004 draft for a lot of teams.

beasly213
12-08-2008, 10:36 AM
Isn't Kenny Rogers no longer with the Tigers? If that's the Case OC would the perfect choice for them to fill the team jack ass role.

hi im skot
12-08-2008, 10:37 AM
Passed up others that landed in the top 100--John Lackey, Brian Roberts, Carl Crawford, Justin Morneau, and Brandon Phillips.


In 2004 they had 6 picks in the first 2 rounds.

[snip]

Not anyone setting the world on fire 4 years later. One guy they passed on for 4 of those picks is the AL MVP.

I think people looking for immediate or within 5 years impact on draft picks acquired for Cabrera leaving are kidding themselves. Chances are they will just be busts.

The excuse that was given of the poor Sox draft record being draft position is totally bunk. Some of the choices they made through the years show even if they were picking near the top, bad picks most likely would have occured.

Let's be fair, though. While it's painful to see such great talents slip past, other teams dropped the ball, too.

I'm hopeful that the Sox are finally (cliche alert!) turning the page and beginning a new chapter within the organization. It's no secret that they've drafter poorly for many years, but after cleaning house maybe things will finally start to turn around.

Sure, maybe we're getting too excited about picking up draft picks, but it certainly can't hurt to have the picks in our back pocket...

dickallen15
12-08-2008, 10:44 AM
Let's be fair, though. While it's painful to see such great talents slip past, other teams dropped the ball, too.

I'm hopeful that the Sox are finally (cliche alert!) turning the page and beginning a new chapter within the organization. It's no secret that they've drafter poorly for many years, but after cleaning house maybe things will finally start to turn around.

Sure, maybe we're getting too excited about picking up draft picks, but it certainly can't hurt to have the picks in our back pocket...

That's true that every team has plenty more dissappointments than success stories. Even the Twins. Some of their first round picks have been horrible and they supposedly know what they are doing better than anyone. The point is, even these supplemental picks get a nice bonus, usually $1 million or more. Would you rather have 2 or 3 of these types, or an extra bullpen arm? It would be nice if the Sox were able to spend $50 million on draft picks, but that's not reasonable. It seems to me, its better to trade for prospects with veteran players. The bonus are already paid, you get a better feel for what they can do and might be able to do at the professional level. Take the White Sox 2004 draft. How many of them right now, if trading of draft picks were allowed, would be able to fetch the White Sox the same draft pick from where they were chosen? Maybe Fields can get you the 18th pick. Gio might get you a supplemental. The others, no way. The MLB draft is the biggest crapshoot of all of the major sports drafts.

kittle42
12-08-2008, 10:59 AM
I've never people get so excited over potential baseball draft picks than in this thread.

Haven't you noticed? Everyone here is an expert lately on players they have never seen outside of YouTube!

chisoxmike
12-08-2008, 11:00 AM
Haven't you noticed? Everyone here is an expert lately on players they have never seen outside of YouTube!

I wonder if the players have MySpace or Facebook pages too!

hi im skot
12-08-2008, 11:05 AM
The point is, even these supplemental picks get a nice bonus, usually $1 million or more. Would you rather have 2 or 3 of these types, or an extra bullpen arm?
I guess that all depends on the particular draft pick. If it's a dude that scouts are all drooling over, pay him his bonus and get him some playing time in the minors, STAT.

It's really a fine line GMs have to ride---you always want to get guys who have a solid Major League track record on your team, but you've gotta get the young guys and develop them, too. I know everyone likes to drool over Tampa Bay this year, but they actually did it right; they drafted well, developed some of the homegrown talent, and traded some of it away for solid veterans.

Of course, I don't want to completely follow the Rays' path with ten years of basement dwelling, either...

It seems to me, its better to trade for prospects with veteran players. The bonus are already paid, you get a better feel for what they can do and might be able to do at the professional level.

Over the past ten years or so, I definitely agree with you. However, I'm hoping that the Sox organization finally has some folks who are actually good at evaluating talent now and can do a decent job of drafting. Fingers crossed...

The MLB draft is the biggest crapshoot of all of the major sports drafts.

No doubt.

jabrch
12-08-2008, 11:05 AM
Haven't you noticed? Everyone here is an expert lately on players they have never seen outside of YouTube!

We have lots of people here who know more than professional scouts do. It's kinda funny.

hi im skot
12-08-2008, 11:07 AM
I've never people get so excited over potential baseball draft picks than in this thread.


Better than nothing...

:shrug:

BadBobbyJenks
12-08-2008, 11:17 AM
Haven't you noticed? Everyone here is an expert lately on players they have never seen outside of YouTube!

Or people are excited that the Sox farm system has a chance to be completely reloaded in a hurry. But no chance to slam everyone if it is just that so carry on.

btrain929
12-08-2008, 11:18 AM
I just hope KW doesn't try to find Johnny Noname from some small college and draft him in the compensation/2nd/3rd round (ala Brent Morel). There are plenty of players out there that are very good. Pick them, and save to sleeper picks for sleeper rounds.

kittle42
12-08-2008, 12:07 PM
Or people are excited that the Sox farm system has a chance to be completely reloaded in a hurry. But no chance to slam everyone if it is just that so carry on.

If Williams can show that he can do it while still fielding a major league team that can compete for a championship, fine. Otherwise, I'll spend my time worrying more about the big club.

voodoochile
12-08-2008, 12:32 PM
If Williams can show that he can do it while still fielding a major league team that can compete for a championship, fine. Otherwise, I'll spend my time worrying more about the big club.

And when has KW ever shown an inclination to do the opposite? I mean he values the big league club at the expense of the minors so much that it was scaring people on these forums just 10 months ago and those are the people who don't follow the minors.

See this is what I don't get about all the hand wringing and moaning that is going on. It's December freaking 8th and KW has always tried his hardest to put a winner on the field in Chicago at the expense of anything and everything else.

However one thing is true and it's always been true. KW doesn't set the budget.

jabrch
12-08-2008, 02:01 PM
If Williams can show that he can do it while still fielding a major league team that can compete for a championship, fine. Otherwise, I'll spend my time worrying more about the big club.

I don't see any reason yet to believe this team won't be any less competitive than last year's team. It's the first week in Dec, we have trimmed a ton of payroll, and haven't lost anything yet that is irreplaceable.

Fortunately, I don't think Minny, Cleveland or Detroit are going to get significantly better this offseason. So I think we are definitely a contender.

btrain929
12-08-2008, 02:09 PM
I don't see any reason yet to believe this team won't be any less competitive than last year's team. It's the first week in Dec, we have trimmed a ton of payroll, and haven't lost anything yet that is irreplaceable.

Fortunately, I don't think Minny, Cleveland or Detroit are going to get significantly better this offseason. So I think we are definitely a contender.

Maybe, but I think it's hard to expect CLE and DET to have the same poor seasons they had last year.

jabrch
12-08-2008, 02:17 PM
Maybe, but I think it's hard to expect CLE and DET to have the same poor seasons they had last year.

Until both Detroit and Cleveland goes out and gets starting pitching, I think it is pretty safe to assume they will struggle. Cleveland lost Sabathia, so right now they have Lee, Westbrook, Carmona, Sowers and ? Detroit is bringing Verlander, Bonderman, Robertson, Galaraga and Willis.

Same story in the pens. Neither of those teams have a pen that is as good as ours - and ours wasn't great in the 2nd half.

Sure - it is Dec. 8th. And they may sign/acquire X, Y or Z. The same is true for us. So if we go based on today, I see us competitive. If we assume activity, we are still competitive because it is unfair to assome only one team makes moves.

whitesox901
12-08-2008, 02:39 PM
Until both Detroit and Cleveland goes out and gets starting pitching, I think it is pretty safe to assume they will struggle. Cleveland lost Sabathia, so right now they have Lee, Westbrook, Carmona, Sowers and ? Detroit is bringing Verlander, Bonderman, Robertson, Galaraga and Willis.

Same story in the pens. Neither of those teams have a pen that is as good as ours - and ours wasn't great in the 2nd half.

Sure - it is Dec. 8th. And they may sign/acquire X, Y or Z. The same is true for us. So if we go based on today, I see us competitive. If we assume activity, we are still competitive because it is unfair to assome only one team makes moves.

True, Detroit's pitching still reaks, and as for CLE, I doubt Lee will win 20+ agian, I doubt if he gets to 15. Carmona could rebound to his 07' form. But to be fair, Cleveland went a while without there muscle in Pronk and Martinez, but then agian, good pitching > good hitting.

jabrch
12-08-2008, 03:01 PM
True, Detroit's pitching still reaks, and as for CLE, I doubt Lee will win 20+ agian, I doubt if he gets to 15. Carmona could rebound to his 07' form. But to be fair, Cleveland went a while without there muscle in Pronk and Martinez, but then agian, good pitching > good hitting.

And teams have injuries. You have to assume that. We were without Crede, PK, Contreras, Jenks, Linebrink and TCQ for various portions of the year. Detroit had injuries too. So did Minny.

But regardless of injuries, if those teams don't bolster their starting pitching and their pens, they will not leapfrog OVER the Sox going into the season.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-18-2008, 02:03 AM
Was reading a few articles and caught a line about the Dodgers viewing Cabrera as their "Plan B" if they couldn't get Furcal back. That would've been great because I think the Sox would've received the 17th overall pick in the 2009 amateur draft! But that's not going to happen now and it's going to be interesting to see where OC ends up.

The A's are interested but only if they can get him cheap. I'm surprised the Tigers didn't go after him. Can't think of many other teams that need/can afford him.

jabrch
12-19-2008, 01:38 AM
Can't think of many other teams that need/can afford him.

He may end up getting paid less than he thought he would.

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-19-2008, 04:04 AM
Until both Detroit and Cleveland goes out and gets starting pitching, I think it is pretty safe to assume they will struggle. Cleveland lost Sabathia, so right now they have Lee, Westbrook, Carmona, Sowers and ? Detroit is bringing Verlander, Bonderman, Robertson, Galaraga and Willis.

Same story in the pens. Neither of those teams have a pen that is as good as ours - and ours wasn't great in the 2nd half.

Sure - it is Dec. 8th. And they may sign/acquire X, Y or Z. The same is true for us. So if we go based on today, I see us competitive. If we assume activity, we are still competitive because it is unfair to assome only one team makes moves.

I believe the Sox will compete next year too, but in all fairness, our rotation ain't looking to hot right now. Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, ?, ?. We can't really expect Richard to come out of no where and have a great season. Same with Marquez. We might be pushing it a little too far, IMO.

jabrch
12-19-2008, 04:15 AM
I believe the Sox will compete next year too, but in all fairness, our rotation ain't looking to hot right now. Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, ?, ?. We can't really expect Richard to come out of no where and have a great season. Same with Marquez. We might be pushing it a little too far, IMO.

I agree - there are two big ? at 4 and 5. I'm willing to wait out an answer to how the rest of the division looks as well.

everafan
12-21-2008, 04:16 PM
He may end up getting paid less than he thought he would.

Interesting take from Buster Olney

2. All but two of the free agents who were offered arbitration turned it down in the hopes of landing multiyear deals elsewhere. But increasingly, it appears that the Jason Variteks and Orlando Cabreras are going to have a difficult time landing deals that match what they might have made in arbitration. "With everything that's going on, and the way the prices are dropping, there's no way I'd give Orlando Cabrera a two-year deal for big money -- not when I have to give up a draft pick," a club official said. "Not a chance."

Nellie_Fox
12-22-2008, 12:39 AM
the Jason Variteks and Orlando CabrerasHow many of each are there?

LoveYourSuit
12-22-2008, 12:52 AM
Until both Detroit and Cleveland goes out and gets starting pitching, I think it is pretty safe to assume they will struggle. Cleveland lost Sabathia, so right now they have Lee, Westbrook, Carmona, Sowers and ? Detroit is bringing Verlander, Bonderman, Robertson, Galaraga and Willis.

Same story in the pens. Neither of those teams have a pen that is as good as ours - and ours wasn't great in the 2nd half.

Sure - it is Dec. 8th. And they may sign/acquire X, Y or Z. The same is true for us. So if we go based on today, I see us competitive. If we assume activity, we are still competitive because it is unfair to assome only one team makes moves.

Cleveleand played real good ball after Sabathia left. Their three of Lee, Westbrook, Carmona is the best 3 in the division by far.

I think Cleveland will bounce back this year. I think the Twins will be better than they were last season beacuase of experience being gained by their young pitching. The Tigers will continue to suck.

If had to pick them right now with the Sox "as is":

1. Cle
2. Min
3. Sox

And the publicaitons will pick them this way and all hell will break out on this board with the cry of "no respect."

KRS1
12-22-2008, 02:37 AM
Cleveleand played real good ball after Sabathia left. Their three of Lee, Westbrook, Carmona is the best 3 in the division by far.



hahahahahaha. GMAB. First of all, Westbrook is out until at least the break with TJ and hip surgery, and secondly, he's nothing more than a good bottom of the rotation pitcher anyway. Then there's Carmona who had a nice and awful injury season after batters decided to notice his lack of control and made him come to them. Can't really say anything bad about Lee after the season he just had, but quite frankly, I'm not sold on 08' being anything more than one of those incredible career years. Not saying I expect him to fall flat on his face, but I do expect the guy to come back down to Earth, big time.

Not trying to be a homer, but give me our top 3 any day over the Jnjans. I do wish that we would add another veteran in there capable of being at least a four, though, because no way do I want two more young guys anchoring our rotation.