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Lillian
11-14-2008, 09:17 AM
Amidst all of the posts on the Swisher trade there seems to be little insight provided regarding Betemit. Those who have even mentioned him regard him as a "failed prospect", "journeyman minor leaguer", or "utility infielder". While I never really knew much about him, in researching him I get a different impression.
Here are some of the things that I've uncovered that might be of interest:

1) The controversy over his true age arose out of a suit over his original contract signing. Apparently the Braves signed him when he was only 14 1/2 years old. It is alledged that they lied about his age in order to meet the legal requirement for signing. His actual birth date is almost certainly the one everyone now uses. He was born on Nov 2, 1981. Here's the link:
http://old.savannahnow.com/stories/022900/SPTbravesnotes.shtml

2) He was considered a top prospect in the Braves organization:
1999 - Player of the Year in the Rookie League.
All-Star shortstop
2000 - Braves' #1 Minor League Prospect by Baseball America
2001 - Braves' #1 Minor League Prospect and Braves Minor League
Player of the Year

He was hurt most of 2002.

3) His Major League career has been pretty decent for a young player, especially when you consider that he was traded mid season two years in a row, and the second time to a new league. Nevertheless, he did produce.

4) Betemit hit 32 homers with 103 RBIs in his 613 at bats, over the two years 06 and 07. He was only 24 and 25 during those two seasons, and showed very good promise.

5) The article in this link mentions his having begun wearing glasses last May, after coming off of the DL.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mlb

I heard Girardi on Comcast's Chicago Tribune Live last night. He said that he hit much better after getting the glasses.
His game log from last year does reflect that he was a pretty good hitter the last two months of the season, during which he hit .297. In fact, he really only had one bad month, and even then his .217 average wasn't much worse than Swisher's whole season!!
If you project his numbers from last years limited playing time, they aren't bad at all:
In 189 at bats 13 doubles, 6 homers and 25 RBIs. That projects to around 39 doubles, 18 homers and 75 RBIs. When you consider that he finished strong, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think that he could improve upon those stats, especially if he could get more playing time. The one negative that I note from last year is that he didn't seem to be able to draw as many walks as he had been getting in previous seasons. That may have to do with his very limited playing time.

6) Defensively, it appears that his best position is 3B. Although he was originally a shortstop, he has gained too much weight for that to be a viable option. However he has good hands, and a very strong arm, which makes him very suitable at Third.

Summary: This is a young guy with a lot of potential, who has shown some pretty good promise at the Big League level. He has had limited playing time, but has performed well, when given an opportunity.
The best part is that he is cheap, and helps free up more salary for other moves. In that he is only one of three players received in this deal, I don't see what there is not to like about the trade.

BringBackBlkJack
11-14-2008, 09:34 AM
I remember when he was with the Braves. For the most part he was relegated to backing up Chipper when he was injured over at 3B. The guy has played in some crowded infields. When he was with the Braves they had Chipper, Furcal and Giles. There was simply no room for him. From what I can recall off the top of my head his fielding wasn't that great but his bat was alright. A bizarro-Uribe, if you will.

Iwritecode
11-14-2008, 10:34 AM
5) The article in this link mentions his having begun wearing glasses last May, after coming off of the DL.

I heard Girardi on Comcast's Chicago Tribune Live last night. He said that he hit much better after getting the glasses.

Do they look like this?

http://cache.reelzchannel.com/assets/content/blog/vaughn.jpg

russ99
11-14-2008, 10:46 AM
This is a typical Kenny reclamation project. If Betemit can put it together, it's a steal. If not, he replaces Uribe as our utility guy, but he can also switch hit and play every position but pitcher and catcher. So other than defensive ability I'd say he's more valuable than Uribe at this point. Maybe Ozzie needs to put him on the Uribe diet. :D:

I'm not going to hold out too much hope for a massive rebound, but I have him above Fields at this point. We'll see what else Kenny does to address 3B later this offseason...

BleacherBandit
11-14-2008, 10:49 AM
Do they look like this?

http://cache.reelzchannel.com/assets/content/blog/vaughn.jpg

I think they're more like Kyle Farnsworth glasses.

VeeckAsInWreck
11-14-2008, 11:17 AM
I think they're more like Kyle Farnsworth glasses.

They don't beat Chris Sabo's though.

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/1180/sabo1kr9.jpg

NLaloosh
11-14-2008, 11:26 AM
Honestly, I think that Betemit would be better if he played everyday and I think that he would be better than Josh Fields as the regular 3Bman.

I think that he's become too big to play SS or 2B very well anymore but 3B and 1B he could be fine. It's his bat that intrigues me.

I also have a feeling that this may have been done so that the Sox could move Fields and still have somebody there.

ND_Sox_Fan
11-14-2008, 11:29 AM
[He can play] play every position but pitcher and catcher.

Actually, he was the Yankees emergency catcher, so he can play that one too.

Taken in what is sure to be a series of off-season moves, I am a fan of this trade.

voodoochile
11-14-2008, 11:36 AM
At the worst he's Uribe AND Swisher for $9M less per season...

Lukin13
11-14-2008, 11:45 AM
At the worst he's Uribe AND Swisher for $9M less per season...

C'mon now: That is crazy talk.

Swisher's '06 and '07 stats in the #1 Pitcher's Park in Baseball:

2006: 35 HR, 95 RBI, .372 OBP
2007: 22 HR, 78 RBI, .381 OBP

Obviously, '08 didn't work out but you cannot say that Betemit is AT WORST Nick Swisher. Good Grief.

delben91
11-14-2008, 11:53 AM
He's no Brad Eldred. :tongue:

voodoochile
11-14-2008, 12:00 PM
C'mon now: That is crazy talk.

Swisher's '06 and '07 stats in the #1 Pitcher's Park in Baseball:

2006: 35 HR, 95 RBI, .372 OBP
2007: 22 HR, 78 RBI, .381 OBP

Obviously, '08 didn't work out but you cannot say that Betemit is AT WORST Nick Swisher. Good Grief.

I was more speaking about his ability to cover multiple positions and Betamit will probably never have the patience of Swisher, but he's got most of the power potential if he plays every day.

Twice he's had runs of over 80 games with OPS around Swisher's career average. Each of them ended in him getting traded. In 2006 he hit 18 HR in 373 AB and had 14/240 in 2007.

He may never be the hitter Swisher is, but it's not like it's a complete reach to say he could be.

DumpJerry
11-14-2008, 12:04 PM
Glasses solve all problems. (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=79109)

CubKilla
11-14-2008, 12:13 PM
At the worst he's Uribe AND Swisher for $9M less per season...

Stole my thunder. Betemit is Uribe. No more, no less.

balz1472
11-14-2008, 12:33 PM
Betemit will put some pressure on Fields. I have also read on mlbtraderumors that there are reports that this is likely only setting up a larger deal for the White Sox. They do not point out what it could be, but you never know with KW. Maybe he can pull Frank Thomas back? Or... Roberto Alomar? heck, how about Crazy Carl?

Lukin13
11-14-2008, 12:36 PM
Betamit will probably never have the patience of Swisher, but he's got most of the power potential if he plays every day.

He may never be the hitter Swisher is, but it's not like it's a complete reach to say he could be.

No it isn't a complete reach...

But you said: AT WORST Betemit is Swisher.

Now twenty minutes later you are saying that he has the potential to have Nick's power, and that he may never be the hitter Swisher is. :scratch:

Lillian
11-14-2008, 12:42 PM
These comparative stats for Betemit and Swisher are interesting.
The top line represents Betemit's total Major League career stats.
The lower is Swisher's numbers for just 2006 and 2007, arguably his best:

Stat line AB RUNS HIT 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO AVG OBP SLG
Betemit 1098 145 286 60 4 42 151 108 314 .260 .325 .437

Swisher 1095 190 282 60 3 57 173 197 283 .258 .376 .475

With the exception of On Base %, they are very comparable.
Based on their numbers last year. Betemit was clearly better, though limited to about 1/3 of a season.

Craig Grebeck
11-14-2008, 12:45 PM
These comparative stats for Betemit and Swisher are interesting.
The top line represents Betemit's total Major League career stats.
The lower is Swisher's numbers for just 2006 and 2007, arguably his best:

Stat line AB RUNS HIT 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO AVG OBP SLG
Betemit 1098 145 286 60 4 42 151 108 314 .260 .325 .437

Swisher 1095 190 282 60 3 57 173 197 283 .258 .376 .475

With the exception of On Base %, they are very comparable.
Based on their numbers last year. Betemit was clearly better, though limited to about 1/3 of a season.
OBP and SLG% aren't very similar, but, why bother looking at that when you can analyze their runs scored?

Lukin13
11-14-2008, 12:53 PM
These comparative stats for Betemit and Swisher are interesting.
The top line represents Betemit's total Major League career stats.
The lower is Swisher's numbers for just 2006 and 2007, arguably his best:

Stat line AB RUNS HIT 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO AVG OBP SLG
Betemit 1098 145 286 60 4 42 151 108 314 .260 .325 .437

Swisher 1095 190 282 60 3 57 173 197 283 .258 .376 .475

With the exception of On Base %, they are very comparable.
Based on their numbers last year. Betemit was clearly better, though limited to about 1/3 of a season.

What?

The only thing that is comparable is hits and batting average.

Swisher's line is clearly better.

Lillian
11-14-2008, 12:57 PM
OBP and SLG% aren't very similar, but, why bother looking at that when you can analyze their runs scored?

Yes, you're right, and I did say that their OBP's were not comparable.
I don't view the slugging % disparity as that great. They were .038 apart; .475 vs. .437.
The larger point is that Swisher has not been that much better, even excluding last year. If you project Betemit's stats from his very limited playing time last year out over a full season, he was better than Swisher last year, except for the walks. That's about all Swisher did right last year.

Craig Grebeck
11-14-2008, 12:59 PM
Yes, you're right, and I did say that their OBP's were not comparable.
I don't view the slugging % disparity as that great. They were .038 apart; .475 vs. .437.
The larger point is that Swisher has not been that much better, even excluding last year. If you project Betemit's stats from his very limited playing time last year out over a full season, he was better than Swisher last year, except for the walks. That's about all Swisher did right last year.
The point is, you can't project it out over an entire season. He wouldn't have sustained those numbers while having a K/BB ratio in the neighborhood of 56/6.

kittle42
11-14-2008, 01:01 PM
Stat line AB RUNS HIT 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO AVG OBP SLG
Betemit 1098 145 286 60 4 42 151 108 314 .260 .325 .437

Swisher 1095 190 282 60 3 57 173 197 283 .258 .376 .475

With the exception of On Base %, they are very comparable.

Not really. The OBP difference is HUGE, and the slugging difference is pretty big, too.

kittle42
11-14-2008, 01:02 PM
OBP and SLG% aren't very similar, but, why bother looking at that when you can analyze their runs scored?

Some people around here, I think, overly rely on stats, but many people have really no knowledge of their usefulness or how they translate in comparing players. This thread shows that, for sure.

voodoochile
11-14-2008, 01:09 PM
No it isn't a complete reach...

But you said: AT WORST Betemit is Swisher.

Now twenty minutes later you are saying that he has the potential to have Nick's power, and that he may never be the hitter Swisher is. :scratch:

Sorry, I was referring to his ability to play multiple positions. He can play all 7 and in a pinch 8 positions on the field supposedly. That means he can cover for Swish in the OF and 1B and Uribe everywhere else.

Right now his bat is better than Uribe by a good margin and not horrifically worse than Swisher. So I stand by my statement that he can cover for both of them and save the team money. If he really develops, he could be another great pickup for KW.

EMachine10
11-14-2008, 01:12 PM
If I recall my stereotypes correctly, Latin players are not the most patient players in the world and won't draw as many walks, as evidenced by Wilson's low OBP. It is the Latin players' ability to put the ball in play that usually finds them the success. He showed flashes of this in Atlanta, so I'm willing to see how he works out here.

Lillian
11-14-2008, 01:15 PM
Some people around here, I think, overly rely on stats, but many people have really no knowledge of their usefulness or how they translate in comparing players. This thread shows that, for sure.


Alright, let's look at this:

Here are their career stats:

Betemit AVG. .260 OBP .325 SLG .437
Swisher AVG .244 OBP .354 SLG .451

That is even closer. For the difference in age, contracts, and organizational fit. I prefer Betemit.
Moreover, given the fact that Betemit has had less playing time, I'd expect him to have better upside. Swisher has had enough career at bats to better provide predictability.

voodoochile
11-14-2008, 01:15 PM
OBP and SLG% aren't very similar, but, why bother looking at that when you can analyze their runs scored?

Betamit has never had the opportunity to settle in and play with one team for an extended period of time either. He's also never had the consistency of AB that Swish has had. He's shown flashes of being as good with the stick as Swish but each time he seems to be coming into his own, he gets traded. Maybe he should be able to shrug that off and just keep on keeping on, but I can't speak for his mental makeup or how he was used after being traded compared to before.

If there's one thing that seems to be a problem for him, Betamit doesn't seem to be a strong defender based purely on stats. He makes a bunch of errors and his ZR and RF aren't spectacular. I've never seen him play (that I can recall) so I am stuck using these admitedly less than perfect stats to evaluate him at present. It maybe what has led to him being traded so often. Not having a single position he can settle in at and make a team feel comfortable can lead to a team getting frustrated and trading him.

He adds depth, competition and a solid bat (or the potential for a solid bat). That's not the worst thing that ever happened...

voodoochile
11-14-2008, 01:24 PM
Alright, let's look at this:

Here are their career stats:

Betemit AVG. .260 OBP .325 SLG .475
Swisher AVG .244 OBP .354 SLG .451

That is even closer. For the difference in age, contracts, and organizational fit. I prefer Betemit.
Moreover, given the fact that Betemit has had less playing time, I'd expect him to have better upside. Swisher has had enough career at bats to better provide predictability.

Just to be picky, Betamit's career slg is not .475. It's .437.

champagne030
11-14-2008, 01:28 PM
Wilson will be decent sub at 1st or 3rd and batting against RH's. Anything more and he's a big liability.

Lillian
11-14-2008, 01:33 PM
Just to be picky, Betamit's career slg is not .475. It's .437.

Yes, I knew that. It was just a mistake in copying the numbers.
I'll fix it. Thanks

DaveFeelsRight
11-14-2008, 03:23 PM
so basically, this guy is uribe part duex but he can play first?

esbrechtel
11-14-2008, 03:24 PM
And wears sweet glasses! Maybe he can leave a pair in New York to help out Swish!

DaveFeelsRight
11-14-2008, 03:28 PM
And wears sweet glasses! Maybe he can leave a pair in New York to help out Swish!http://assets.sbnation.com/imported_assets/33612/340x_medium.jpg

and he wears high socks as well! its like we never lost swisher!

champagne030
11-14-2008, 03:41 PM
so basically, this guy is uribe part duex but he can play first?

He'll embarrass himself if he's put at 2B or SS. He's got less than no range. He needs to play 3rd or 1st.

AZChiSoxFan
11-14-2008, 03:55 PM
Do they look like this?

http://cache.reelzchannel.com/assets/content/blog/vaughn.jpg


:rolling::rolling::rolling:

Konerko05
11-14-2008, 04:53 PM
Betemit has hit right handed pitching substantially better over his career.

Vs. RHP .269/.339./.460
Vs. LHP .232/.276/.360

Fields absolutely murders left handed pitching.

Vs. RHP .202/.279/.368
Vs. LHP .309/.363/.667

(Smaller sample size, but the differential is too great to ignore.)

Depending on what other moves we made, it's probable both players will be on the opening day roster. I don't think anyone questioned that, but it's interesting to look at the platoon possibility.

Betemit will be the utility infielder, but he will also play a consideral amount of third base against right handed pitching.

My only concern is Betemit's ability to play up the middle. Playing 150+ games at SS is going to be a challenge for Alexei.

whitesox901
11-14-2008, 04:56 PM
http://assets.sbnation.com/imported_assets/33612/340x_medium.jpg

and he wears high socks as well! its like we never lost swisher!

So in the end, its like we did nothing at all :D:

sox230
11-14-2008, 07:12 PM
All I have to say is Wilson Betemit better not be our starting 3rd baseman. Then again, I said last offseason Carlos Quentin better not be our starting left fielder.

Craig Grebeck
11-14-2008, 08:52 PM
All I have to say is Wilson Betemit better not be our starting 3rd baseman. Then again, I said last offseason Carlos Quentin better not be our starting left fielder.
Last year you were wrong, this year you're probably right. But Betemit is horse**** up the middle, so he'd mostly be a corners backup if he doesn't start. I wish Betemit had Quentin's talent or minor league track record, but he just doesn't.

Rdy2PlayBall
11-14-2008, 09:23 PM
C'mon now: That is crazy talk.

Swisher's '06 and '07 stats in the #1 Pitcher's Park in Baseball:

2006: 35 HR, 95 RBI, .372 OBP
2007: 22 HR, 78 RBI, .381 OBP

Obviously, '08 didn't work out but you cannot say that Betemit is AT WORST Nick Swisher. Good Grief.WHAT!? I didn't know he was that good before!? @_@ What's with the hate for Swish? He had a rough year! I'm mad about this trade now. :mad: I thought it was ok as a money saver, but what the hell? :scratch:

Tragg
11-14-2008, 09:28 PM
He'll embarrass himself if he's put at 2B or SS. He's got less than no range. He needs to play 3rd or 1st.
We just acquired a backup corner infielder; then we'll need a backup middle infielder.
The bench starts with 2 utility infielders.

champagne030
11-14-2008, 09:34 PM
We just acquired a backup corner infielder; then we'll need a backup middle infielder.
The bench starts with 2 utility infielders.

:nod:

:(:

sox1970
11-14-2008, 09:37 PM
We just acquired a backup corner infielder; then we'll need a backup middle infielder.
The bench starts with 2 utility infielders.

Keep in mind it's November 14, but Chris Getz can move around the infield. Alexei can play up the middle. Jayson Nix could probably handle anywhere in the infield. Betemit will probably play 3B mostly, and give Konerko a day off here and there. But again...November 14.

Tragg
11-14-2008, 09:42 PM
Keep in mind it's November 14, but Chris Getz can move around the infield. Alexei can play up the middle. Jayson Nix could probably handle anywhere in the infield. Betemit will probably play 3B mostly, and give Konerko a day off here and there. But again...November 14.
Okay - but I'm counting that up and it's still 2 utility infielders. That's all Nix is.
Then you look at the outfield and we'll have, what Anderson (need a defender) and, inexplicably, Wise? (he's on the 40 man for some reason - who other than Ozzie Guillen thinks he can play?).
Not a hitter on the bench.
But, as you said, it is November.

Billy Ashley
11-15-2008, 08:16 AM
You guys who think Wilson is better than Swisher do realize that his statistics (that are worse that Swisher's, who put up his line in crap hitter ballparks), you guys do realize that WB put up those lines rarely seeing lefthanded pitching right?

His career line is in limited time, facing mostly righties and in better hitting ball parks than Oakland. It is also worse than Swisher's. He's a good bench player, Swisher (aside from 08) is an excellent starter.

frontrunner3
11-15-2008, 10:32 AM
I remember people not being too excited last year by the TCQ acquisition either. Now that one didn't turn out too badly did it? If I remember correctly he was similar to Wilson in that he was a once highly touted prospect who hadn't quite panned out. So let's just see where this takes us shall we?

Craig Grebeck
11-15-2008, 10:48 AM
I remember people not being too excited last year by the TCQ acquisition either. Now that one didn't turn out too badly did it? If I remember correctly he was similar to Wilson in that he was a once highly touted prospect who hadn't quite panned out. So let's just see where this takes us shall we?
I've been waiting for this comparison. Guys, there aren't many similarities between Wilson and Carlos. Carlos was a guy who got by on gaudy statistics and tools that all measured around average to above average (his power was largely underestimated in the minors). Betemit was all tools, no statistics.

Betemit's career minor league line: .277/.337/.424/.761 (2558 AB)
Quentin's career minor league line: .312/.427/.526/.953 (1337 AB)

There's no reason to believe Betemit will break out this season.

voodoochile
11-15-2008, 11:02 AM
I've been waiting for this comparison. Guys, there aren't many similarities between Wilson and Carlos. Carlos was a guy who got by on gaudy statistics and tools that all measured around average to above average (his power was largely underestimated in the minors). Betemit was all tools, no statistics.

Betemit's career minor league line: .277/.337/.424/.761 (2558 AB)
Quentin's career minor league line: .312/.427/.526/.953 (1337 AB)

There's no reason to believe Betemit will break out this season.

There's one... He got glasses... :D:

Lillian
11-15-2008, 12:06 PM
In the final analysis, isn't it really way too early to try to assess Betemit's
potential to contribute? After all, he has only had 1,098 Major League at bats. Ted Williams used to say that it takes about 1,000 at bats, at the Big League level, to "figure it out". There aren't that many guys who come up and excel immediately. Unlike Swisher, who has had more than enough playing time to demonstrate his capabilities, Betemit still can be considered to have upside. I'm hopeful.

Sargeant79
11-15-2008, 01:09 PM
In the final analysis, isn't it really way too early to try to assess Betemit's
potential to contribute? After all, he has only had 1,098 Major League at bats. Ted Williams used to say that it takes about 1,000 at bats, at the Big League level, to "figure it out".

So what you're saying is that there is hope for Brian Anderson...

Craig Grebeck
11-15-2008, 01:23 PM
In the final analysis, isn't it really way too early to try to assess Betemit's
potential to contribute? After all, he has only had 1,098 Major League at bats. Ted Williams used to say that it takes about 1,000 at bats, at the Big League level, to "figure it out". There aren't that many guys who come up and excel immediately. Unlike Swisher, who has had more than enough playing time to demonstrate his capabilities, Betemit still can be considered to have upside. I'm hopeful.
He has never shown this upside, ever.* There's no reason to believe he will be any better than he has been.

* - for a meaningful period of time.

Tragg
11-15-2008, 02:15 PM
I remember people not being too excited last year by the TCQ acquisition either. Now that one didn't turn out too badly did it? If I remember correctly he was similar to Wilson in that he was a once highly touted prospect who hadn't quite panned out. So let's just see where this takes us shall we?
TCQ hit the cover off of the ball all through the minor leagues. Was he an unkown re the majors? Yes. He had a rough first season.

Betemit is not an unknown - he is a utility infielder.

BadBobbyJenks
11-15-2008, 03:11 PM
So Betemit is not going to be an MVP candidate next year?

What the **** Kenny?

CubsfansareDRUNK
11-15-2008, 03:27 PM
I've been waiting for this comparison. Guys, there aren't many similarities between Wilson and Carlos. Carlos was a guy who got by on gaudy statistics and tools that all measured around average to above average (his power was largely underestimated in the minors). Betemit was all tools, no statistics.

Betemit's career minor league line: .277/.337/.424/.761 (2558 AB)
Quentin's career minor league line: .312/.427/.526/.953 (1337 AB)

There's no reason to believe Betemit will break out this season.

1337! 1337! haXX0r!

Lillian
11-15-2008, 03:42 PM
In reponse to the comparison to Carlos Quentin, who said anyone expected Betemit to have that kind of potential?
In reply to the one who, in response to the Ted Williams' quote regarding the need for 1,000 at bats, joked that perhaps there is hope for Brian Anderson", I would simply say; yes, I think there is still hope for B. A.

Look, Betemit was pretty highly regarded. As a 23 year old rookie with the Braves, in 246 at bats he hit .305 with a .359 OBP and a .435 Slugging %.
In his second year, at age 24, he hit .263 with a .326 OBP and a Slugging % of .469.
I know that you've all seen those stats. So what is so bad about that kind of production for a young player in his first two seasons?
Frankly I would take those numbers at 3B, if he played decent defense, wouldn't you?
Why shouldn't we expect that he might still improve?
He did hit almost .300 over the last two months of last year.

You can make a case for Betemit to potentially put up the kind of offensive numbers that we have seen from either Crede, Fields or Uribe.

Don't you think that K.W. deserves the benefit of the doubt on these kinds of transactions?

EMachine10
11-15-2008, 03:48 PM
In reponse to the comparison to Carlos Quentin, who said anyone expected Betemit to have that kind of potential?
In reply to the one who, in response to the Ted Williams' quote regarding the need for 1,000 at bats, joked that perhaps there is hope for Brian Anderson", I would simply say; yes, I think there is still hope for B. A.

Look, Betemit was pretty highly regarded. As a 23 year old rookie with the Braves, in 246 at bats he hit .305 with a .359 OBP and a .435 Slugging %.
In his second year, at age 24, he hit .263 with a .326 OBP and a Slugging % of .469.
I know that you've all seen those stats. So what is so bad about that kind of production for a young player in his first two seasons?
Frankly I would take those numbers at 3B, if he played decent defense, wouldn't you?
Why shouldn't we expect that he might still improve?
He did hit almost .300 over the last two months of last year.

You can make a case for Betemit to potentially put up the kind of offensive numbers that we have seen from either Crede, Fields or Uribe.

Don't you think that K.W. deserves the benefit of the doubt on these kinds of transactions?
I still think he has a lot of potential, because he did show that he can hit when given a chance in Atlanta. He was moved around a little after that and maybe he didn't get comfortable. Like you said, he hit well the final two months of the year after getting the specs, so I'd really like to see how he does and give him a legitimate shot at beating out Fields at third.

As for the part I've bolded....No, sadly there's a lot of people who expect .300 30 100 from every position every year.

Craig Grebeck
11-15-2008, 03:56 PM
In reponse to the comparison to Carlos Quentin, who said anyone expected Betemit to have that kind of potential?
In reply to the one who, in response to the Ted Williams' quote regarding the need for 1,000 at bats, joked that perhaps there is hope for Brian Anderson", I would simply say; yes, I think there is still hope for B. A.

Look, Betemit was pretty highly regarded. As a 23 year old rookie with the Braves, in 246 at bats he hit .305 with a .359 OBP and a .435 Slugging %.
In his second year, at age 24, he hit .263 with a .326 OBP and a Slugging % of .469.
I know that you've all seen those stats. So what is so bad about that kind of production for a young player in his first two seasons?
Frankly I would take those numbers at 3B, if he played decent defense, wouldn't you?
Why shouldn't we expect that he might still improve?
He did hit almost .300 over the last two months of last year.

You can make a case for Betemit to potentially put up the kind of offensive numbers that we have seen from either Crede, Fields or Uribe.

Don't you think that K.W. deserves the benefit of the doubt on these kinds of transactions?
In response to his numbers in '05-'06 -- that was a long, long time ago. He has been all kinds of suck since then. As for the last two months of last season, he did so in 64 AB with an 18/2 K/BB ratio. Yikes. Not sustainable, or valid.

Edit: Also, in response to your first question: http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2102228&postcount=46

Lillian
11-15-2008, 04:28 PM
In response to his numbers in '05-'06 -- that was a long, long time ago. He has been all kinds of suck since then. As for the last two months of last season, he did so in 64 AB with an 18/2 K/BB ratio. Yikes. Not sustainable, or valid.


Well, I wouldn't say that he has been so awful since those first two seasons. Here is what he did in his third season, 2007, playing part time in two different leagues:
240 at bats .229 Avg. .333 OBP .454 Slugging% with 50 RBI's.

Except for the low batting average, I'd hardly call that "all kinds of suck".

EMachine10
11-15-2008, 05:04 PM
Well, I wouldn't say that he has been so awful since those first two seasons. Here is what he did in his third season, 2007, playing part time in two different leagues:
240 at bats .229 Avg. .333 OBP .454 Slugging% with 50 RBI's.

Except for the low batting average, I'd hardly call that "all kinds of suck".
Compared to what we traded away for him, it looks pretty solid. :D:

champagne030
11-15-2008, 05:13 PM
Can we just end this thread? Wilson is a slower version of Pablo.....

Craig Grebeck
11-15-2008, 06:07 PM
Well, I wouldn't say that he has been so awful since those first two seasons. Here is what he did in his third season, 2007, playing part time in two different leagues:
240 at bats .229 Avg. .333 OBP .454 Slugging% with 50 RBI's.

Except for the low batting average, I'd hardly call that "all kinds of suck".
He did that in a platoon. That's terrible. He barely played against lefties.

Lillian
11-15-2008, 06:09 PM
Can we just end this thread? Wilson is a slower version of Pablo.....

OK, slower and stronger, much slower and much stronger.