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View Full Version : Todd Ritchie = Mediocre Pitcher


chisoxt
05-20-2002, 08:14 PM
Has anyone noticed how many two out two strike runs that Todd Ritchie has given up lately. granted, the guy gets no run support, but it's infuriating to watch him go 0-2 on a batter with two outs and bingo, four runs score. My take on his problem is that he has to throw so many breaking balls to get guys out, he eventually hangs one.

And to think that we gave up two guys who are a collective 11-3 to get him. The thought of KW overseeing another white flag trade is really scarey.

MattSharp
05-20-2002, 09:21 PM
I have always thought Ritchie was a mediocre pitcher. He was just pitching way better than he ever has. Hes like 30 years old. I mean c'mon this is about how he would pitch. An ERA around 4.00 is what I expected from him. The Sox need some offense tonight and they didn't get it....

baggio202
05-20-2002, 09:58 PM
its was a battle of numbers twos tonight...derek lowe versus todd ritchie....did anyone otthere feel the same way i did before the first was thrown??..which is...we had absolutely no chance..none ..zip ..nada...

i mean todd ritchie couldnt beat ismail valdez and that rookie call up from texas when texas had 50 million dollars in payroll sitting on the DL..when they ran a line up out there of payrod and a buch of bushers...if he couldnt win those two games how could anyone give him a chance agaisnt a playoff team and derek lowe...this could very well be a playoff preview...and we failed miserably..

we will never win a playoff series with todd ritchie as our number 2 pitcher...he's a average number 3 and a good number 4 at best...he can not match up against the play off teams number 2 pitchers...

this trade will hang around kenny williams neck like albatross..and will sink his GM - ship to the bottom of the ocean...its gonna the sox version of brock for broglio...

chisoxt
05-20-2002, 10:14 PM
this trade will hang around kenny williams neck like albatross..and will sink his GM - ship to the bottom of the ocean...its gonna the sox version of brock for broglio...

I know.....maybe, just maybe, if Ritchie gets it together, we will be able to package him in a deal to get a couple of fringe minor league pitchers, who might be half as good as the ones we gave up.

Procol Harum
05-20-2002, 10:23 PM
Ritchie's whole career record screams mediocre--there was no reason to expect him to be any better. On a really good team he might be able to put together a .600 winning percentage. The shame of it is that on any other staff, Ritchie is a #3 or #4 starter. The fact that we are looking to him to fill our #2 slot just points out what a criminal job Sox management has done in terms of our pitching staff--being afraid to sign veteran free-agent pitchers while simultaneously doing a lousy job in identifying and developing talent in its minor league system.

Garrison
05-20-2002, 10:33 PM
I like Ritchie. The trade seemed a bit lopsided to me and we've all heard the pros and cons and the reflections of both ends so far. Bottom line: is Todd Ritchie helping this team? I say overall that yes he is. Considering that he is at best a #3 three starter and probably should be a #4, and yet he's going out there in our #2 spot and pitching well. Until tonight the guy gave up no more than 3ER per start. That's putting your team in a position to win. He's simply been extremely unlucky to recieve little or no run support. He's not blowing three run leads or getting lit up so bad we can't come back. He's being played ahead of his ability and has done a great job. He should be at the very least 4-4 if not 5-3 or even 6-2. A little bit off offense behind Ritchie and we've got a very good set-up there. He's kept other teams off the board waiting for help and the bats just haven't been there for him. No doubt he's a decent starting pitcher at best, but don't give up on the guy or turn against him, he just can't do it all himself. If we can trade for a solid #2 guy and move Ritchie to #3 then I think that he will prosper from that. Right now so much is being expected of him and the guy just can't do that much.

Tragg
05-20-2002, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by chisoxt
Has anyone noticed how many two out two strike runs that Todd Ritchie has given up lately. granted, the guy gets no run support, but it's infuriating to watch him go 0-2 on a batter with two outs and bingo, four runs score. My take on his problem is that he has to throw so many breaking balls to get guys out, he eventually hangs one.

And to think that we gave up two guys who are a collective 11-3 to get him. The thought of KW overseeing another white flag trade is really scarey.

yes he is a mediocre pitcher and many of us pointed that out at the time (just like many of us pointed out the lunacy of trading for clayton at the time and we were assailed).

That trade, horrible as it was, is water under the bridge.
Unfortunately, the real problem remains - Kenny Williams. And he isn't going anywhere. He has signed a below mediocre catcher, traded for a mediocre shortstop and a mediocre pitcher. When we needed left handed help last year, he traded for a horrible lefty - on the cheap again. Yet, when he wanted to dump a potential free agent, he got virtually nothing in return.

He's made a few good moves - Glover and signing Lofton. That's it as far as I can tell.

We don't go anywhere until we get a competent GM, which we aren't going to do.

bc2k
05-21-2002, 05:56 AM
It is impossible for Ritchie to get the win when his team doesn't score one run. Talk about Ritchie's line all you want, but look at the scoring line. How fitting that the Sox "O" fense put up nine O's in the game.

The problem is with the offense. This offense cannot score against good pitching. We saw this in the 2000 playoffs. Unfortunately in this regard the core is still here. IIHO, you're not going to bomb quality pitching for 17 runs. You need to take advantage of men in scoring position, manufacture runs. Its kind of hard to manufacture runs when your #2 hitter doesn't know how to bunt and is all too familiar with the 6-4-3.

If we're lucky enough to see Derek Lowe in the playoffs, the Sox must have Valentin batting second and Thomas to have a clue for the White Sox to have a chance. This team is too good offensively to be shut down so often.

Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I think they have the same game plan for every pitcher. You can't try to hit Jose Lima the same way as Derek Lowe.

WinningUgly!
05-21-2002, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by bc2k
It is impossible for Ritchie to get the win when his team doesn't score one run. Talk about Ritchie's line all you want, but look at the scoring line. How fitting that the Sox "O" fense put up nine O's in the game.

The problem is with the offense. This offense cannot score against good pitching. We saw this in the 2000 playoffs. Unfortunately in this regard the core is still here. IIHO, you're not going to bomb quality pitching for 17 runs. You need to take advantage of men in scoring position, manufacture runs. Its kind of hard to manufacture runs when your #2 hitter doesn't know how to bunt and is all too familiar with the 6-4-3.

If we're lucky enough to see Derek Lowe in the playoffs, the Sox must have Valentin batting second and Thomas to have a clue for the White Sox to have a chance. This team is too good offensively to be shut down so often.

Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I think they have the same game plan for every pitcher. You can't try to hit Jose Lima the same way as Derek Lowe.

I'd like the Sox lineup a lot better with Valentin in the 2 hole. I know I'll get hammered for this, but I'd like to see a batting order of...
1) Lofton
2) Valentin
3) Durham
4) Ordonez
5) Thomas
6) Konerko
7) Lee/Liefer/Rowand
8) Johnson/Alomar
9) Clayton
Let the top of the order get on, get over & get in.

Soxboyrob
05-21-2002, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!

I'd like the Sox lineup a lot better with Valentin in the 2 hole. I know I'll get hammered for this, but I'd like to see a batting order of...
1) Lofton
2) Valentin
3) Durham
4) Ordonez
5) Thomas
6) Konerko
7) Lee/Liefer/Rowand
8) Johnson/Alomar
9) Clayton
Let the top of the order get on, get over & get in.

YIKES, where's my hammer!?!?!
The really scary thing here is both Valentin and Durham hitting at the top of the order. Neither of these guys really get on base enough to be considered good top of the order guys. They're ok, mind you. Valentin would probably be even better hitting number two, since I think his hitting approach would change from what he's trying to do currently. Ray hasn't shown enough for me to even consider batting him above #6 anymore. He doesn't have that "get on base under any circumstances" attitude that Kenny has, and that Valentin has shown on occasion. Not to mention that I don't like not getting at least one of Konerko, Maggs or Frank up to bat in the first inning.

Randar68
05-21-2002, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by chisoxt
Has anyone noticed how many two out two strike runs that Todd Ritchie has given up lately. granted, the guy gets no run support, but it's infuriating to watch him go 0-2 on a batter with two outs and bingo, four runs score. My take on his problem is that he has to throw so many breaking balls to get guys out, he eventually hangs one.

And to think that we gave up two guys who are a collective 11-3 to get him. The thought of KW overseeing another white flag trade is really scarey.

JESUS CHRIST!

Hindsight is 20/20. If you thought Fogg and Wells combined would win 11 games over the course of the ENTIRE YEAR at the time of the trade, you are smoking crack. Neither one would be doing ANYTHING if they were here right now.

You want to blame it on someone, blame it on Nardi. He is a farse.

:firenardi

Soxheads
05-21-2002, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by Randar68


JESUS CHRIST!

Hindsight is 20/20. If you thought Fogg and Wells combined would win 11 games over the course of the ENTIRE YEAR at the time of the trade, you are smoking crack. Neither one would be doing ANYTHING if they were here right now.

You want to blame it on someone, blame it on Nardi. He is a farse.

:firenardi

That's the smartest thing I've heard in this whole discussion. Fogg wouldn't have started here. I am actually glad to see him succeed with Pitt. He would never have gotten his chance with the Sox.

Soxboyrob
05-21-2002, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
If you thought Fogg and Wells combined would win 11 games over the course of the ENTIRE YEAR at the time of the trade, you are smoking crack. Neither one would be doing ANYTHING if they were here right now.



Good points. Was Fogg always a starter in the minors? I never really heard him touted as one and, of course, we used him in relief last year. What kind of minor league success did he have for us? He sure looked good in his stints w/ the Sox last year and I had a good feeling about his future back then, albeit as a reliever. Seeing Kip Wells dealt warmed my heart. It's hard to imagine he'll keep up his current pace. He's had good run support and started well for us last year before completely falling apart when we needed him most during August and September. I'm not crying over that trade at all. Ritchie still doesn't look like a number two starter to me....not a playoff caliber number two anyway. To me, a playoff caliber number two starter is almost a number one starter on an average team. Not sure that can be said about Todd right now. If our hitting would just hit for the guy, he'd still win 16-18 games easy for us.

Paulwny
05-21-2002, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
.
You want to blame it on someone, blame it on Nardi. He is a farse.

:firenardi

I think Nardi has been fired 3 times, Yankmees, Mariners, anyone know the 3rd?

Soxboyrob
05-21-2002, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny


I think Nardi has been fired 3 times, Yankmees, Mariners, anyone know the 3rd?

The Sox....in about a week or two.

chisoxt
05-21-2002, 01:34 PM
You want to blame it on someone, blame it on Nardi. He is a farse.

OK, Done. But maybe with a better pitching coach, we can expect more out of our young pitchers than what we're getting. And maybe with some besides Nardi, we can also do a ber-tter job of sorting out which pitchers will make and which ones won't. Sure with Nardi at the helm, there is no way of knowing how any of these guys will pan out.

My point here is that Nardi has a bad track record, not with just the Sox but with other teams as well. As long as he is around, we will never know how good these guys will be until they end up somewhere else.

gosox3072
05-21-2002, 05:36 PM
You guys need to give richie a break, hes pitched awsome. He had 1 bad outing and now we want to lose him hmmmmmmmmmmm thats smart!!!!!! The only reason he doesnt have 6 wins is we cant score when hes on the mound!!

GO SOX
:gulp: <---------i need this to watch the sox

Garrison
05-22-2002, 12:10 AM
Thank you gosox. That was one of the more intelligent posts on this thread. All these chicken littles about Ritchie. The guy has pitched awesome and put us in a position to win every time out. Lay fof of him. Sheesh.

doublem23
05-22-2002, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob


The Sox....in about a week or two.

God willing....

Unregistered
05-22-2002, 01:16 AM
Ritchie allowed more than three earned runs for the first time in his 10 starts this season. Which makes him one of the few consistantly good pitchers on our team. RELAX.

Garrison
05-22-2002, 09:22 AM
Yes! RELAX people. Ritchie is good. Give him a break.