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Sockinchisox
11-12-2008, 08:13 PM
Fairly obvious, but here's a story on it.

According to 2 NL scouts they said that Kenny is looking at prospects that he wants in a possible Dye deal.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-13-white-sox-chicagonov13,0,7366873.story

Dub25
11-12-2008, 08:15 PM
Why JD's name keeps coming up is beyond me. Should be shopping PK.

sox1970
11-12-2008, 08:18 PM
Why JD's name keeps coming up is beyond me. Should be shopping PK.

One has trade value. The other doesn't, and is a 10/5.

Brian26
11-12-2008, 08:18 PM
Why JD's name keeps coming up is beyond me. Should be shopping PK.

JD is one of the most valuable pieces KW can trade right now, his value is only going to start declining soon, he doesn't have the same type of no-trade protection that PK has, and he would be fairly easy to replace as a corner outfielder. It's a no-brainer.

Being a good GM is all about trading a guy a year too early, not a year too late.

Dub25
11-12-2008, 08:21 PM
JD is one of the most valuable pieces KW can trade right now, his value is only going to start declining soon, he doesn't have the same type of no-trade protection that PK has, and he would be fairly easy to replace as a corner outfielder. It's a no-brainer.

Being a good GM is all about trading a guy a year too early, not a year too late.

I get what you guys are saying. I'm just looking at it as if Dye goes, you have two slow base cloggers in Thome and Konerko. I think if you wait to see where Texiera goes then maybe you can rework PK to Anaheim.

btrain929
11-12-2008, 08:21 PM
Why JD's name keeps coming up is beyond me. Should be shopping PK.


PK has 10/5 rights to refuse any trade. Dye doesn't.
PK is coming off a down year where his value is pretty low, and wouldn't bring back a huge return. Dye is coming off a great year where his value couldn't be higher, and can bring back a nice-sized haul.
You mention waiting until Teixeira signs somewhere. What if he doesn't sign until the end of January? We wasted the whole winter not making any moves because we were "waiting" for something else to happen.

Rockabilly
11-12-2008, 08:23 PM
I read that Reds are looking for a power hitting right hander.. So i am sure that maybe one team KW is talking to..

Bailey & Dickerson for Dye & mid level prospect might be a good fit for the Sox

Dub25
11-12-2008, 08:26 PM
PK has 10/5 rights to refuse any trade. Dye doesn't.
PK is coming off a down year where his value is pretty low, and wouldn't bring back a huge return. Dye is coming off a great year where his value couldn't be higher, and can bring back a nice-sized haul.
You mention waiting until Teixeira signs somewhere. What if he doesn't sign until the end of January? We wasted the whole winter not making any moves because we were "waiting" for something else to happen.


Tex will not last until January. He will be signed before X-Mas. And of course I don't mean wait all off season. Things will heat up at the winter meetings.

kittle42
11-12-2008, 09:24 PM
Trading Dye right now is a pretty good idea as long as valuable commodities are received in return, of course. Dye is probably this team's most valuable realistic trading piece.

tm1119
11-12-2008, 10:03 PM
Hmm.. Maybe a Dye + Javy deal? Apparently we've been scouting the Mets prospects pretty heavily and the Mets do have holes both in the OF and in the rotation. We could probably deplete the Mets entire farm system for those 2 knowing Minia's history of trading prospects. I'd love to get Murphy from them.

DumpJerry
11-12-2008, 10:17 PM
WBBM Radio today said that KW is shopping Dye and Jenks.

eaganmafia
11-12-2008, 10:32 PM
Tex will not last until January. He will be signed before X-Mas. And of course I don't mean wait all off season. Things will heat up at the winter meetings.

Yeah cause Scott Boras clients always sign quickly.

eaganmafia
11-12-2008, 10:35 PM
Hmm.. Maybe a Dye + Javy deal? Apparently we've been scouting the Mets prospects pretty heavily and the Mets do have holes both in the OF and in the rotation. We could probably deplete the Mets entire farm system for those 2 knowing Minia's history of trading prospects. I'd love to get Murphy from them.

The Mets don't have **** in there farm system outside of Fernando Martniez and he's starting to lose his luster as his bat has still not come around.

btrain929
11-12-2008, 10:37 PM
WBBM Radio today said that KW is shopping Dye and Jenks.

Hopefully Jenks doesn't get traded until after the Superbowl, cuz I really need to get Jenks' autograph at Soxfest for my White Sox autograph set.

LoveYourSuit
11-12-2008, 10:52 PM
JD is one of the most valuable pieces KW can trade right now, his value is only going to start declining soon, he doesn't have the same type of no-trade protection that PK has, and he would be fairly easy to replace as a corner outfielder. It's a no-brainer.

Being a good GM is all about trading a guy a year too early, not a year too late.


Reason why a Jenks move would not shock me.

Dye and Jenks are very strong assets to trade this season and get a good load back in return.


The same people that are shocked of names like these being mentioned are the same people that wanted to back up the truck every time we slumped this year. Let's face it, we won the 2nd worst division in baseball by a string playing 163 games. I am not against change.

khan
11-13-2008, 10:19 AM
I'd hate to see JD go. I'd very much like him to finish up here in Chicago, as a White Sox, and winning yet another ring with our team.

Alas, the days of holding onto a player for sentimental value are over. JD's value in trade is at a peak right now, as his playing abilities and contract invite trading partners to take a look.

For my part, I'd like to see a pitching prospect, and a lefty power bat prospect to eventually replace Thome's bat in trade. Or a MLB-ready 2B or CF youngster, plus a pitching prospect in trade.

Lip Man 1
11-13-2008, 10:23 AM
I have two thoughts on this one:

1. How good in reality are the prospects going to be for a 34 (soon to be 35 year old) who is on the downside of his career and soon will be better served as a DH? (Not trying to be ugly towards Jermaine, just stating the facts...)

2. How is trading off one of your top players for prospects who may not be worth a damn in the big leagues, going to help improve your chances for competing and winning right now?

Kenny has always stated with some emotion in his voice to the media that he feels the Sox can compete and win every year and that if ever he doesn't think the team can, "I'll be the first to let you know..."

If he feels it's honestly time to rebuild, fine...have the guts to say so and be prepared to suffer the consequences.

Lip

Sockinchisox
11-13-2008, 10:32 AM
I have two thoughts on this one:

1. How good in reality are the prospects going to be for a 34 (soon to be 35 year old) who is on the downside of his career and soon will be better served as a DH? (Not trying to be ugly towards Jermaine, just stating the facts...)

2. How is trading off one of your top players for prospects who may not be worth a damn in the big leagues, going to help improve your chances for competing and winning right now?

Kenny has always stated with some emotion in his voice to the media that he feels the Sox can compete and win every year and that if ever he doesn't think the team can, "I'll be the first to let you know..."

If he feels it's honestly time to rebuild, fine...have the guts to say so and be prepared to suffer the consequences.

Lip

I would guess the plan is to trade Dye, move Swisher or Quentin to right and acquire a CF. Giving more balance to the team.

khan
11-13-2008, 10:34 AM
I have two thoughts on this one:

1. How good in reality are the prospects going to be for a 34 (soon to be 35 year old) who is on the downside of his career and soon will be better served as a DH? (Not trying to be ugly towards Jermaine, just stating the facts...)
True. But bear in mind that JD will be making a bargain-basement ~$9.5M next year. In that context, $9.5M for a near-MVP candidate in '08, and probable productive DH in '09 and beyond remains valuable. At the price, JD remains valuable. Perhaps in a year from now, not so much..

2. How is trading off one of your top players for prospects who may not be worth a damn in the big leagues, going to help improve your chances for competing and winning right now?
Provided that the prospects are near MLB-ready, [as was the case with the Garcia and McCarthy trades] this shouldn't be too much of an issue. There are enough extant holes in the team with the craptacular Fields at 3B, an unproven Getz at second, and the ongoing cavalcade of question marks at CF. So my feeling is that standing pat isn't an option, anyway. So KW pretty much HAS TO go younger and cheaper.

If he feels it's honestly time to rebuild, fine...have the guts to say so and be prepared to suffer the consequences.
If it is done correctly, and for the right price, I don't think that the sole move of trading away JD will signal a "fire sale" or a rebuilding process, necessarily. There are enough pieces here to compete, [Alexei, TCQ, Danks, Buehrle, Jenks, Floyd] IF more of the right pieces [a 3B who can catch and avoid striking out, a 2B, a CF] can be added to the mix.

GregO23
11-13-2008, 10:41 AM
We could probably ship some of these prospects we get in return of Dye for leadoff hitter and 2B Brian Roberts. Then we can plug Swish in LF or RF and have Brian Anderson start in CF. This makes our defense much improved and also gives us alot more speed and balance in the lineup. Then the question is, who is our 3B for next season until Viciedo(assuming we sign him) or Beckham are ready

russ99
11-13-2008, 10:50 AM
If it is done correctly, and for the right price, I don't think that the sole move of trading away JD will signal a "fire sale" or a rebuilding process, necessarily. There are enough pieces here to compete, [Alexei, TCQ, Danks, Buehrle, Jenks, Floyd] IF more of the right pieces [a 3B who can catch and avoid striking out, a 2B, a CF] can be added to the mix.

I disagree. It's one thing to deal McCarthy for another prospect and another to deal Dye who still has a lot of top-level baseball in him, and at a very market-friendly price. And I prefer that those "right pieces" we'd get in return to be major league players, not prospects. Both Floyd and Quentin had a MLB season under their belt when we got them, so I wouldn't consider them prospects, not even MLB ready prospects.

I can understand trading PK for prospects since his value is low and he has the NTC, but not Dye.

We're a large-market team, not the Twins. If we field prospects and/or Nix/Getz, Fields and Anderson there goes a large portion of my interest in this team, just like after the "White Flag" trade. Hopefully Kenny realizes that a large portion of the fanbase still feels bitterness due to that and doesn't want to see it again.

Rockabilly
11-13-2008, 10:55 AM
It looks like the Yankees are very interested in Dye..

would a Dye for Cano deal work

thedudeabides
11-13-2008, 11:14 AM
It looks like the Yankees are very interested in Dye..

would a Dye for Cano deal work

Where are you seeing this reported?

khan
11-13-2008, 11:17 AM
I disagree. It's one thing to deal McCarthy for another prospect and another to deal Dye who still has a lot of top-level baseball in him, and at a very market-friendly price. And I prefer that those "right pieces" we'd get in return to be major league players, not prospects.
Actually, that would be my preference as well. MLB players intead youngsters would be better. But JD is 34 years old, and towards the end of his useful years as a field player. He's towards the end of his prime years. So while MLB players would be my preference, I'm not 100% sure that Dye would return them in trade.

At the same time, budget constraints and the multitude of holes in the team suggest that KW will have to go with some unproven parts in the team, unfortunately. So if 2 holes [5th/6th SP, or CF, or 3B, or 2B or 2nd lefty in the 'pen; Leadoff man or 2nd hitter] can be addressed by trading Dye, then IMO, KW will have done his job.

Both Floyd and Quentin had a MLB season under their belt when we got them, so I wouldn't consider them prospects, not even MLB ready prospects.
Perhaps its a matter of semantics here. Player(s) that is/are as MLB-vetted as Floyd/Quentin/Danks/Masset were when they were traded to Chicago is what I had in mind here.

We're a large-market team, not the Twins. If we field prospects and/or Nix/Getz, Fields and Anderson there goes a large portion of my interest in this team, just like after the "White Flag" trade. Hopefully Kenny realizes that a large portion of the fanbase still feels bitterness due to that and doesn't want to see it again.
And I'd like it if the front office saw it this way, too. But I've read in a few places that the team has $99M tied up into existing player contracts. And that the "budget" calls for ~$114M to be utilized for player contracts in 2009.

Like it or not, the White Sox do have some limitations on their resources that are available to spend in 2009. There will HAVE TO BE some youth in the team in 2009 to make a team for $114M or less.

Rockabilly
11-13-2008, 11:19 AM
Where are you seeing this reported?

Tyler Kepner I believe from the NY Times was on XM radio this morning. he said that the Yanks want to spend money on pitching for C.C and Burnett..

So they would replace Abreu in a trade. Cashman #1 choice for RF is Dye..

voodoochile
11-13-2008, 11:20 AM
JD is one of the most valuable pieces KW can trade right now, his value is only going to start declining soon, he doesn't have the same type of no-trade protection that PK has, and he would be fairly easy to replace as a corner outfielder. It's a no-brainer.

Being a good GM is all about trading a guy a year too early, not a year too late.

He's already replaced if they don't trade Swisher.

eaganmafia
11-13-2008, 11:20 AM
It looks like the Yankees are very interested in Dye..

would a Dye for Cano deal work

Yeah the same way a Jenks/Gavin deal could get Hanley.

eaganmafia
11-13-2008, 11:22 AM
Tyler Kepner I believe from the NY Times was on XM radio this morning. he said that the Yanks want to spend money on pitching for C.C and Burnett..

So they would replace Abreu in a trade. Cashman #1 choice for RF is Dye..

Why would the Yankees need another corner outfielder?

They have Nady, Damon and Matsui and a bunch of crappy options in Melky and Gardner.

thedudeabides
11-13-2008, 11:22 AM
Tyler Kepner I believe from the NY Times was on XM radio this morning. he said that the Yanks want to spend money on pitching for C.C and Burnett..

So they would replace Abreu in a trade. Cashman #1 choice for RF is Dye..

Thanks

voodoochile
11-13-2008, 11:23 AM
I would guess the plan is to trade Dye, move Swisher or Quentin to right and acquire a CF. Giving more balance to the team.

Yes and it would give KW $30M to spend after the loss of Crede and Cabrera. I think he can put that money to good use.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Jenks go either. The Sox are already talking about Poreda being more suited to a closer role due to his limited number of pitches. If that's the case, he could be up next year for sure.

Marqhead
11-13-2008, 11:32 AM
I love JD as a player, always very underrated. But the time to sell is now while he still has a good amount of value after a quality season.

Of course I wont judge trading JD until I see the return, but I have complete faith in KW.

Tragg
11-13-2008, 11:33 AM
Good time to shop JD, although I'm not sure who plays RF and/or makes up for his production.

Marqhead
11-13-2008, 11:34 AM
Good time to shop JD, although I'm not sure who plays RF and/or makes up for his production.

I think most people are couting on a Swisher comeback, I'm one of them.

Tragg
11-13-2008, 11:39 AM
I think most people are couting on a Swisher comeback, I'm one of them.
A comeback doesn't match JD's production. I guess as we have greater than mean production in LF we could live with below-mean production in RF.

voodoochile
11-13-2008, 11:40 AM
I think most people are couting on a Swisher comeback, I'm one of them.

He should be able to cover most of the power numbers. The question is can he get his BA up to something close to .260 while still taking a ton of walks?

LoveYourSuit
11-13-2008, 11:56 AM
He should be able to cover most of the power numbers. The question is can he get his BA up to something close to .260 while still taking a ton of walks?


I don't like Swisher as a player but I do like his capability of taking a walk. But one can argue that because of his patience at the plate, he is missing out on attacking and being more aggresive earlier in the count to get himself more hits and production. Countles the amount of 3rd pitch strikes looking he took last season, including a bunch of full counts.


I think they need to get it to his head that if replaces a guy like Paulie or Dye next season, he needs to be more aggresive at the plate to even come close to hitting .260+ and 30 hrs and 90 RBISs.

beasly213
11-13-2008, 12:04 PM
If you are in win now mode like the White Sox always claim to be then you 100% do not trade Dye. Who on this team is going to make up his numbers? His bat is a huge presence in this lineup and I don't think you can trade him for prospects that might be good players a few years down the line.

I understand he may have high value but its not as high as many of you think. If we as fans can realize that Dye may be on the decline and is a year away from free agency why don't you think that other GMs wouldnt know that? Why would they trade the farm for him?

Kenny has always says he will listen to offers for anyone so I'm not suprised we're hearing all of these names but I also dobut all of them if any will be dealt in the off season.

eaganmafia
11-13-2008, 12:05 PM
He should be able to cover most of the power numbers. The question is can he get his BA up to something close to .260 while still taking a ton of walks?

Who cares what his ba is as long as he's getting onbase at .360-.380 clip.

Rocky Soprano
11-13-2008, 12:11 PM
If you are in win now mode like the White Sox always claim to be then you 100% do not trade Dye. Who on this team is going to make up his numbers?

I think that Swisher plus a good CF, 3B, 2B may make up Dye's numbers. If trading Dye helps you bring in a good CF, or 3B, or 2B then I think you pull the trigger.

I do agree that if it only nets you prospects then Kenny can't really say he is trying to win now.

Craig Grebeck
11-13-2008, 12:16 PM
Swisher can easily eclipse Dye's total production by playing an above average RF with an average season. Dye gives it all he's got, but his legs are practically cement at this point.

russ99
11-13-2008, 12:26 PM
Swisher can easily eclipse Dye's total production by playing an above average RF with an average season. Dye gives it all he's got, but his legs are practically cement at this point.

I know past performance is no indication of how he can play in the future, but it seems to me that JD will always hit at a high level, which makes him the prime Sox player to eventually supplant Thome at DH.

I'd bet Dye's name wouldn't be bandied about so much if it were much easier for Kenny to deal PK or Jim... If anything that $15M+ due to them next season is tying Kenny's hands more than anything else.

And if at the deadline in '07 Dye was to be dealt for Crisp and Delcarmen, I really don't think his trade value has fallen off from that very far, especially since he put together such a solid season this year.

voodoochile
11-13-2008, 01:54 PM
Who cares what his ba is as long as he's getting onbase at .360-.380 clip.

Not if he's going to replace Dye. He has to hit for higher average to bring his slg% up. .230/.360/.450 really won't do it. .260/.360/.490 probably would though.

BadBobbyJenks
11-13-2008, 02:01 PM
Jonathon Sanchez has been my idea since the season ended.

btrain929
11-13-2008, 02:03 PM
Jonathon Sanchez has been my idea since the season ended.

My guess is the Giants would want to trade for someone they'd have control over for a longer time than Dye. Plus, they already have a crowded OF.

eaganmafia
11-13-2008, 02:06 PM
Not if he's going to replace Dye. He has to hit for higher average to bring his slg% up. .230/.360/.450 really won't do it. .260/.360/.490 probably would though.

Do you understand that hitting .230 and hitting .260 is the difference of about 15 hits over a entire season. BA is a worthless stat, as long as he can get on base more then Dye which he'll easily do he will replace Dye's numbers.

doublem23
11-13-2008, 02:09 PM
Do you understand that hitting .230 and hitting .260 is the difference of about 15 hits over a entire season. BA is a worthless stat, as long as he can get on base more then Dye which he'll easily do he will replace Dye's numbers.

Do you realize that 15 more hits in a season could be a make or break difference in a couple of games?

Walks are not equal to hits (especially from middle of the order guys), no matter how many times someone screams they are.

eaganmafia
11-13-2008, 02:12 PM
Do you realize that 15 more hits in a season could be the difference in a couple of games?

Walks are not equal to hits (especially from middle of the order guys), no matter how many times someone screams they are.

Something tells me you judge pitchers by wins and believe in "clutch"

doublem23
11-13-2008, 02:15 PM
Something tells me you judge pitchers by wins and believe in "clutch"

No and yes.

I also don't believe a walk is as valuable as a hit.

Something tells me you judge players by their VORP.

veeter
11-13-2008, 02:16 PM
Something tells me you judge pitchers by wins and believe in "clutch"I believe in "clutch".

eaganmafia
11-13-2008, 02:17 PM
No and yes.

I also don't believe a walk is as valuable as a hit.

Something tells me you judge players by their VORP.

This is going nowhere, you believe in what you want and I'll believe in what I want.

Might as well be arguing religion or politics.

eaganmafia
11-13-2008, 02:18 PM
I believe in "clutch".

So if a guy goes 0-5 with 4 k's but in the 13 inning hits a single to win the game is he clutch?

btrain929
11-13-2008, 02:19 PM
David Ortiz & Manny Ramirez = Clutch.

champagne030
11-13-2008, 02:19 PM
Might as well be arguing religion or politics.

More like reality and fantasy.

eaganmafia
11-13-2008, 02:23 PM
David Ortiz & Manny Ramirez = Clutch.

Where was Ortiz's "clutchness" this year in the postseason when he hit .194/.331/339?

He he lose his clutch pixie dust?

btrain929
11-13-2008, 02:27 PM
Where was Ortiz's "clutchness" this year in the postseason when he hit .194/.331/339?

He he lose his clutch pixie dust?

He's always in the league leaders of game-winning hits and batting average in the 7th inning or later. Explain that, son.

khan
11-13-2008, 02:27 PM
Walks are not equal to hits (especially from middle of the order guys), no matter how many times someone screams they are.

Situationally, you're correct, regardless of where a hitter is in the batting order. Walks are NOT equal to hits, Specifically in RISP situations.

However, all else being equal, you're incorrect. In the absence of ducks on the pond, BB = hit, regardless of where a hitter is in the batting order.

eaganmafia
11-13-2008, 02:34 PM
He's always in the league leaders of game-winning hits and batting average in the 7th inning or later. Explain that, son.

That's funny cause close and late this season Ortiz .180/.346/.328. If he's so damn clutch what happened, where did it go.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=3748&type=batting&year=2008

voodoochile
11-13-2008, 02:36 PM
I believe in "clutch".

I thought even Bill James had come to believe in "clutch"...

15 hits Vs 15 walks based on Nick Swisher's career averages: 515 total hits of which 289 = 1B 117 = 2B, 5 = 3B and 104 = HR.

15 walks = 15 bases in some cases it might be as many as 3 bases if you get a walk with 2 men on. Lets call it 20 bases total no guaranteed runs (okay, maybe one with the bases loaded after all he did it 4 times in 42 AB with the bases loaded in the past 3 years) = 1 run.

15 hits = 8.4 1B, 3.4 = 2B, 0.15 = 3B, 3.02 = HR = 9 + 6 + 0 + 12 = 27 bases (and I gave you the benefit of the doubt on the split hit and made it a single). This is also a minimum of 3 runs and more likely more.

See based on his 3 years splits of 1592 AB Nick faced the following chances with men on:

Runners on = 687 chances = 43.1% = add on another 2 runs for the doubles and HRs
Scoring position = 363 chances = 22.8% add on another 1 run for the singles.
Multiple runners on = 215 chances = 13.5 = add another run between the doubles and the HR and 1 for the singles too.

So the difference for Nick Swisher's 15 hits Vs 15 walks is about 7 runs and 7 bases. I think that's pretty significant.

oeo
11-13-2008, 02:37 PM
That's funny cause close and late this season Ortiz .180/.346/.328. If he's so damn clutch what happened, where did it go.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=3748&type=batting&year=2008

To Los Angeles.

btrain929
11-13-2008, 02:39 PM
That's funny cause close and late this season Ortiz .180/.346/.328. If he's so damn clutch what happened, where did it go.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=3748&type=batting&year=2008

Oh, I don't know, maybe the fact that this is his first season being injured pretty bad in the past 6 seasons might have something to do with it. The bastard is getting old and fat and doesn't have any protection anymore.

Again, stop picking the sample size that fits your argument. Take the past 3, 4, 5 years and average them together. '07 and '08 he wasn't good, but from '06-'03 he was amazing.

And I don't see you making any arguments towards Manny. Does that mean you are admitting that he's "clutch?"

PennStater98r
11-13-2008, 02:45 PM
Clutch is legit. It's not just a matter of getting the hit at the right time. Clutch also consists of knowing what to do in the right situation. I would argue that you're a good clutch hitter if you drive the ball deep late in a game with a guy on third - even if the guy's thrown out at the plate. This is because you have done the right thing and done it successfully. If you consistantly do the right thing late in games (such as hitting the ball to the opposite field, putting down a bunt, driving a ball deep, etc) then you are clutch - imo. JD does that (except the bunting).

doublem23
11-13-2008, 02:45 PM
Situationally, you're correct, regardless of where a hitter is in the batting order. Walks are NOT equal to hits, Specifically in RISP situations.

However, all else being equal, you're incorrect. In the absence of ducks on the pond, BB = hit, regardless of where a hitter is in the batting order.

I disagree, solely on the fact that at least when the ball is in play, it is at the mercy of the defense and anything can happen, whereas a walk is just a walk and nothing more.

This is not to be interpretted as dissing walks. Of course, a good eye is key to batting, and if pitchers aren't willing to throw you strikes, there's nothing you can do. However, if you have two guys who consistently have similar OBP's, they are not equal (IMO) if one consistely has a higher BA.

MHOUSE
11-13-2008, 08:46 PM
Walks are important, but there's a significant difference between going up every time and looking for a walk and being a patient hitter who takes walks when they're given to him. Swish seemed to always look walk first and try to hit if he had to. Case and point, striking out looking at a center-cut pitch to end the season. I want someone up there looking to drive in runs, not taking a walk with 2 outs that won't do anything.

My final point about the walk vs. the hit: With nobody on base it would take FOUR walks to score a run where you only need ONE hit.

Tragg
11-13-2008, 08:55 PM
Walks are important, but there's a significant difference between going up every time and looking for a walk and being a patient hitter who takes walks when they're given to him.
Great point.