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JermaineDye05
11-12-2008, 01:11 PM
Joe Maddon :thumbsup::thumbsup: a no brainer

Lou Piniella :scratch::scratch: I realize they won 97 games, but I think Charlie Manuel got screwed. Considering where the Cubs were in their division and where the Phillies were I think it has to go to Manuel. They won the ****ing world series.

whitesox901
11-12-2008, 01:18 PM
Well MOTH is decided before the MLB playoffs, but I agree, Charlie should of won it, the Cubs were expected to be good.

Sox4ever77
11-12-2008, 02:31 PM
Well MOTH is decided before the MLB playoffs, but I agree, Charlie should of won it, the Cubs were expected to be good.

So were the Phillies. They did make the playoffs in 07, so it's not like they were a 4th place team, playing over their heads. They only lost the great Aaron Rowand from that 07 team.

For most of the season the Cubs were the best team in the NL. Regular season of course.

PatK
11-12-2008, 02:33 PM
How the hell did Ozzie finish 5th?

The Sox were expected to do poorly, and they won the division.

eaganmafia
11-12-2008, 02:40 PM
I thought Fracona should have been 2nd for all the **** he had to go through and still getting to the postseason.

1908<2005
11-12-2008, 02:58 PM
You have to keep in mind voting was done BEFORE the playoffs otherwise Manuel wins. How the hell did Dale Sveum get a vote?

doublem23
11-12-2008, 03:00 PM
I thought Fracona should have been 2nd for all the **** he had to go through and still getting to the postseason.

Ah yes, every manager's nightmare, a lineup that scores the 2nd most runs in the league and has the 4th best pitching staff in the league. He must have managed his ass off.

turners56
11-12-2008, 03:04 PM
How the hell did Ozzie finish 5th?

The Sox were expected to do poorly, and they won the division.

Who was better than him in the AL besides Maddon? Only Gardenhire comes to mind.

eaganmafia
11-12-2008, 03:10 PM
Ah yes, every manager's nightmare, a lineup that scores the 2nd most runs in the league and has the 4th best pitching staff in the league. He must have managed his ass off.

Trading Manny
Losing Ortiz for 50+ games
Drew and Lowell missing hitting the DL
Jacoby sucked
Bullpen sucked outside of Papelbon
Beckett regressed from 2007
Lugo sucked and then was on the DL
The blackhole known as Varitek

thomas35forever
11-12-2008, 03:13 PM
You have to keep in mind voting was done BEFORE the playoffs otherwise Manuel wins. How the hell did Dale Sveum get a vote?
For real? Do the playoffs not matter for this award?

eaganmafia
11-12-2008, 03:14 PM
For real? Do the playoffs not matter for this award?

Why should they, they're regular season awards.

JermaineDye05
11-12-2008, 03:25 PM
Jesse Rogers made some good points today on the Score. Torre definitely got jipped as well, for what he did with his team was pretty special. Granted they were in a horrible division, but Torre did a terrific job with that team.

eaganmafia
11-12-2008, 03:50 PM
Jesse Rogers made some good points today on the Score. Torre definitely got jipped as well, for what he did with his team was pretty special. Granted they were in a horrible division, but Torre did a terrific job with that team.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0808/manny.dodgers/images/2.jpg

Here's Torre terrific job.

areilly
11-12-2008, 04:05 PM
How the hell did Ozzie finish 5th?

The Sox were expected to do poorly, and they won the division.

Yes, but they were also a team with only one effective offensive attack and a very weak division. When 60% of the division plays like ****, it's not hard to manage your way to the top.

I would go so far to say the Sox played exactly how and as well as they were expected to; they just happened to finish higher than expected.

Sox4ever77
11-12-2008, 04:11 PM
Trading Manny
Losing Ortiz for 50+ games
Drew and Lowell missing hitting the DL
Jacoby sucked
Bullpen sucked outside of Papelbon
Beckett regressed from 2007
Lugo sucked and then was on the DL
The blackhole known as Varitek


You do know this is a White Sox board right?

eaganmafia
11-12-2008, 04:21 PM
You do know this is a White Sox board right?

So I can't tip my cap to a manager doing a hell of a job. He had a world of **** to deal with this season and still had his team within a game of the World Series.

Terry did a hell of a job this season, better then Ozzie, Gardenhire and Scocia(?)

doublem23
11-12-2008, 04:23 PM
Trading Manny
Losing Ortiz for 50+ games
Drew and Lowell missing hitting the DL
Jacoby sucked
Bullpen sucked outside of Papelbon
Beckett regressed from 2007
Lugo sucked and then was on the DL
The blackhole known as Varitek

Whatever, every manager has to put up with injuries, players breaking down, etc. The Red Sox didn't win solely because Terry Francona is some sort of genius, he won because unlike most other teams, the Sawx have good players to plug their holes. You want to nominate the Red Sox for Organization of the Year, be my guest, but Ozzie, Gardenhire, and Maddon all did more with less.

oeo
11-12-2008, 04:23 PM
So I can't tip my cap to a manager doing a hell of a job. He had a world of **** to deal with this season

A lot of managers did...

Don't you have some Twins fans to bother?

ode to veeck
11-12-2008, 04:24 PM
Why should they, they're regular season awards.

they really shouldn't be because of exactly what happened this year
except for the smart few who knew ahead of time they scrubs were about to choke on schedule again this year

guillensdisciple
11-12-2008, 04:29 PM
How the hell did Ozzie finish 5th?

The Sox were expected to do poorly, and they won the division.

In 2005, Kenny didn't get GM of the year, and we all knew that was a bust.

I feel bias against the Sox.

Ozzie Guillen should've been second. THe only other person who might have bested him for the second spot is Gardenhire and even then both coaches did a hell of a job.

eaganmafia
11-12-2008, 04:31 PM
Whatever, every manager has to put up with injuries, players breaking down, etc. The Red Sox didn't win solely because Terry Francona is some sort of genius, he won because unlike most other teams, the Sawx have good players to plug their holes. You want to nominate the Red Sox for Organization of the Year, be my guest, but Ozzie, Gardenhire, and Maddon all did more with less.

I'm not saying Fracona willed the Red Sox to the postseason. But if I would have told you all those things were gonna happen and the Red Sox were still gonna make the postseason in the toughest division in baseball and be within a game of teh World Series you have to be impressed with what he did.

Managing in the AL isn't tough, talent is always going to shine through no matter who the manager is. It's dealing with all the little things IMO that makes a good manager. The egos, the injuries, the young guys, regression and all the bull**** he had to deal with in a market like Boston is impressive. I didn't say he should have won, Maddon had the award wrapped up the moment the Rays won 80 games. I just personally think Fracona did a hell of a job with everything he had to deal with.

You dont' agree that's fine, I really don't care. I'm just stating my case.

doublem23
11-12-2008, 04:42 PM
I'm not saying Fracona willed the Red Sox to the postseason. But if I would have told you all those things were gonna happen and the Red Sox were still gonna make the postseason in the toughest division in baseball and be within a game of teh World Series you have to be impressed with what he did.

Managing in the AL isn't tough, talent is always going to shine through no matter who the manager is. It's dealing with all the little things IMO that makes a good manager. The egos, the injuries, the young guys, regression and all the bull**** he had to deal with in a market like Boston is impressive. I didn't say he should have won, Maddon had the award wrapped up the moment the Rays won 80 games. I just personally think Fracona did a hell of a job with everything he had to deal with.

You dont' agree that's fine, I really don't care. I'm just stating my case.

That's fine, I was merely stating my case as to why I pretty much think a monkey with 9 darts could manage the Red Sox to 90+ wins right now.

cub killer
11-12-2008, 09:36 PM
MLB really needs to change these awards to include the postseason as well. What we mainly remember from every season is October. The purpose of the regular season is to get to October. Nothing more. The regular season is nothing more than a preseason to the REAL season. It's ridiculous that these awards are based on only 6/7 of the actual season. What's next, spring training awards?

C'mon MLB, you guys have screwed up almost everything about baseball already. Start to make some things right for a change, this can be one of em.

Eddo144
11-12-2008, 10:01 PM
MLB really needs to change these awards to include the postseason as well. What we mainly remember from every season is October. The purpose of the regular season is to get to October. Nothing more. The regular season is nothing more than a preseason to the REAL season. It's ridiculous that these awards are based on only 6/7 of the actual season. What's next, spring training awards?

C'mon MLB, you guys have screwed up almost everything about baseball already. Start to make some things right for a change, this can be one of em.
1) There are MVP awards given out for postseason series. I assume that you'd want those abolished too.

2) Additionally, the "award" for doing well in the postseason is winning the World Series, or at least your league's pennant.

3) How is this something MLB has screwed up? First of all, it's always been this way. Second of all, the BBWAA, which is not affiliated with MLB, gives these awards out.

DumpJerry
11-12-2008, 10:36 PM
Well, Piniella showed today why he won't get it next year. In a telephone interview today, he said changes need to be made on the Cubs to make them more competative. So far, so good. One change he said he wants to do is move Fukudome to CF.

All of the scouting reports out of Japan last year said the last place you want to see Fukudome is CF. Trey Hillman, the Royals' manager who spent several years managing in Japan before 2008, saw plenty of Fukudome there and said that playing him in CF is a recipie for disaster when the bidding war for Fukudome was going on last year.

Oh well, should make for another interesting summer up north next year....

Lundind1
11-12-2008, 11:56 PM
:bitchslap: This happens
:popcorn: I sit back

And Roadhouse here we come. This is why I enjoy this board so much. Fans of the same team, with the same goal, still able to fight tooth and nail for what they think is right.

BTW:

My picks would be AL Madden (obvious) and NL Torre (even though I think Manny made that team)

PatK
11-13-2008, 10:04 AM
In 2005, Kenny didn't get GM of the year, and we all knew that was a bust.

I feel bias against the Sox.

Ozzie Guillen should've been second. THe only other person who might have bested him for the second spot is Gardenhire and even then both coaches did a hell of a job.

Yeah, I'm not saying Ozzie should have won, but fifth?

The Red Sox had problems? The White Sox didn't? Let's see:

Jenks going down
Losing Linebrink for an extended period.
Contreras being injured and losing him for the season
Crede not performing before getting shut down
Swisher sucking
Konerko sucking and being injured
Quentin missing the last month.

Those were some problems, yet the team was able to win the division when no one predicted them sniffing it.

areilly
11-13-2008, 10:45 AM
Those were some problems, yet the team was able to win the division when no one predicted them sniffing it.

It's not like the Sox won the division because they were such a well-oiled machine and played such great baseball.

First place is good and all, but first place with 88 wins is not saying much - especially when it was just as much a result of their own success as it was three of five teams' failures.

eaganmafia
11-13-2008, 10:48 AM
Those were some problems, yet the team was able to win the division when no one predicted them sniffing it.

Congrats, 89 wins in a pretty crappy division. IMO the Sox played to the level they were expected to going into the 2008 season. It's just that the Indians and Tigers sucked ass.

Put the Sox (or Twins for that matter) in the East and they're a 4th or 5th place team.

Madscout
11-13-2008, 08:01 PM
Congrats, 89 wins in a pretty crappy division. IMO the Sox played to the level they were expected to going into the 2008 season. It's just that the Indians and Tigers sucked ass.

Put the Sox (or Twins for that matter) in the East and they're a 4th or 5th place team.
Give us the top two payrolls or a **** ton of top draft picks and we will show you something. The two teams in the East that don't have those two things had very mediocre seasons.

cub killer
11-13-2008, 08:57 PM
1) There are MVP awards given out for postseason series. I assume that you'd want those abolished too.

2) Additionally, the "award" for doing well in the postseason is winning the World Series, or at least your league's pennant.

3) How is this something MLB has screwed up? First of all, it's always been this way. Second of all, the BBWAA, which is not affiliated with MLB, gives these awards out.

1) ALCS MVP is specific to what it's about. 2008 Manager of the Year says 2008, but it rewards only 6/7 of 2008. And no, I dont want LCS or WS MVPs abolished.

2) That's a good reward, but still. The reg season awards should always say Regular Season as part of their title if they're not gonna acknowledge postseason effort.

3) Ok, it's the BWAA, whatever. They still suck for acknowledging a manager who managed a loaded, talented team to a historic upset 1st round sweep. It's ridiculous.

Billy Ashley
11-13-2008, 10:14 PM
Perhaps I'm in the minority, but who gives a crap?

Get the bestest manager on history and put him on a 70 win team and they'll likely win 70 games. Put Grady Little on the Red Sox in 2003 and they'll win over 90.

The only time a manager matters is in the play offs (Little is proof of how bad managing hurts very bad in small samples and is harder to notice over long stretches of time).

Additionally, I'd rather not have a Dusty Baker or Jim Leyland who tears young pitchers apart, but aside form that- How many more wins is Maddon worth more than Bob Melvin? I doubt many. Maybe two.

munchman33
11-13-2008, 10:19 PM
Perhaps I'm in the minority, but who gives a crap?

Get the bestest manager on history and put him on a 70 win team and they'll likely win 70 games. Put Grady Little on the Red Sox in 2003 and they'll win over 90.

The only time a manager matters is in the play offs (Little is proof of how bad managing hurts very bad in small samples and is harder to notice over long stretches of time).

Additionally, I'd rather not have a Dusty Baker or Jim Leyland who tears young pitchers apart, but aside form that- How many more wins is Maddon worth more than Bob Melvin? I doubt many. Maybe two.

Words cannot express how much I disagree with this post. Good managers can win you a few more ballgames over a sesaon, which could be all the difference. Managers can also completely tear a team apart. You need the right one for the team you built.

MHOUSE
11-13-2008, 11:20 PM
Madden was the clear choice and Pinella basically ran the table as the best team in baseball. I watched quite a few cubs games and he usually makes the right moves in the late-innings. He's a good manager. I might have pulled for LaRussa though, I figured they would be awful this year but they somehow contended with Pujols and a AAA roster. Unbelievable.

On Francona, I think he's the most overrated manager in baseball. He's got arguably the best team and front office behind him and just goes with the flow on a deep, veteran team. I don't think he'd have guided a team like the Rays or Cardinals well at all. He's a terrible manager of his bullpen and pitching staff and it seems like sometimes they have to win in spite of his late-inning decisions. I've never seen him outmanage other managers on a consistent basis like Pinella, Torre, LaRussa, Soscia (sp?) do.

Eddo144
11-14-2008, 12:22 PM
1) ALCS MVP is specific to what it's about. 2008 Manager of the Year says 2008, but it rewards only 6/7 of 2008. And no, I dont want LCS or WS MVPs abolished.

2) That's a good reward, but still. The reg season awards should always say Regular Season as part of their title if they're not gonna acknowledge postseason effort.

3) Ok, it's the BWAA, whatever. They still suck for acknowledging a manager who managed a loaded, talented team to a historic upset 1st round sweep. It's ridiculous.
Well you're basically just arguing semantics. The MVP, Cy Young, Rookie of the Year, and Manager of the Year awards are for the regular season. You'd be OK with that if they only included those words?

The World Series isn't for the entire world, either, yet no one (save for Bobby Valentine) complains.

Eddo144
11-14-2008, 12:26 PM
On Francona, I think he's the most overrated manager in baseball. He's got arguably the best team and front office behind him and just goes with the flow on a deep, veteran team. I don't think he'd have guided a team like the Rays or Cardinals well at all. He's a terrible manager of his bullpen and pitching staff and it seems like sometimes they have to win in spite of his late-inning decisions. I've never seen him outmanage other managers on a consistent basis like Pinella, Torre, LaRussa, Soscia (sp?) do.
See, I think Francona is the best manager because he "just goes with the flow". The only thing a manager needs to do regularly is set the lineup and make pitching changes. An occastional bunt or pinch hit is good, too.

An steady barrage of double switches and hit and runs doesn't mean that a manager is outmanaging his opponent, just that he's doing more managing. "More" does not equal "better".