PDA

View Full Version : Keep Javy


tm1119
11-12-2008, 10:48 AM
For now....

I absolutely would hold on to Javy this offseason and wait to trade him during the season sometime before the deadline. Javy is coming off a poor end of the season last year and can only improve his trade value. Some team will almost definitely get desperate early in the season and look to improve their team any way possible. Heres some examples of recent deadline deals by desperate teams:
1. Tigers got Bonderman and Carlso Pena for Lily
2. Indians got Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips for Bartolo Colon
3. Rays got Kazmir for Victor Zambrano
4. Texas got Micheal Young for Estaban Loiza

Notice all great trades for the teams for some not so great pitchers. So if Javy comes out next year stays healthy and keeps his ERA around 4(which he is very capable of) we will get A LOT more for him at the deadline then we will now. Not to mention Javy still has a contract past this year which would make GM's feel better about giving up their prospects. So unless Kenny get completely overwhelmed before the season lets keep him and see what happens.

Taliesinrk
11-12-2008, 11:09 AM
For now....

I absolutely would hold on to Javy this offseason and wait to trade him during the season sometime before the deadline. Javy is coming off a poor end of the season last year and can only improve his trade value. Some team will almost definitely get desperate early in the season and look to improve their team any way possible. Heres some examples of recent deadline deals by desperate teams:
1. Tigers got Bonderman and Carlso Pena for Lily
2. Indians got Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips for Bartolo Colon
3. Rays got Kazmir for Victor Zambrano
4. Texas got Micheal Young for Estaban Loiza

Notice all great trades for the teams for some not so great pitchers. So if Javy comes out next year stays healthy and keeps his ERA around 4(which he is very capable of) we will get A LOT more for him at the deadline then we will now. Not to mention Javy still has a contract past this year which would make GM's feel better about giving up their prospects. So unless Kenny get completely overwhelmed before the season lets keep him and see what happens.

Let's not put Javy and Colon in the same category.

Thome25
11-12-2008, 11:13 AM
NO--absolutely not. Besides if KW thinks it's time to get rid of him then he's probably right. Look at the other pitchers he traded when he felt it was time. Where are they now?

doublem23
11-12-2008, 11:14 AM
Why can't there be a "Keep Javy unless the Sox find a way to replace him, then go ahead and dump his ass" thread?

esbrechtel
11-12-2008, 11:15 AM
I keep Javy until Poreda is ready for a spot in the rotation...I am already nervous about having Richard in there full time.

We have an awful lot of lefties all of a sudden...

KyWhiSoxFan
11-12-2008, 11:16 AM
Please, no, no, no.

gobears1987
11-12-2008, 11:17 AM
We have an awful lot of lefties all of a sudden...
I say we go ahead and stockpile as many lefties as possible so our lineup will only face righties.

CashMan
11-12-2008, 12:36 PM
I keep Javy until Poreda is ready for a spot in the rotation...I am already nervous about having Richard in there full time.

We have an awful lot of lefties all of a sudden...

So, you are nervous about Richard but want someone who is more unproven in the rotation. Isn't having lefty pitchers a good thing?

guillen4life13
11-12-2008, 01:54 PM
So, you are nervous about Richard but want someone who is more unproven in the rotation. Isn't having lefty pitchers a good thing?

Not when 4 our of your five starting pitchers are lefty. I do not want a rotation of Buehrle, Danks, Richard, Poreda and Floyd. Floyd is the only righty in there.

btrain929
11-12-2008, 01:55 PM
Why can't there be a "Keep Javy unless the Sox find a way to replace him, then go ahead and dump his ass" thread?

My thoughts exactly. And make sure it's "stuck" at the top of the Clubhouse so it's easily accessable. Another thread on this just isn't necessary.

CashMan
11-12-2008, 02:07 PM
Not when 4 our of your five starting pitchers are lefty. I do not want a rotation of Buehrle, Danks, Richard, Poreda and Floyd. Floyd is the only righty in there.

Why? What is the difference between 4 good lefties and 4 good righties? Poreda is a prospect, and from the sounds of it he has 1 pitch, which sounds like bullpen arm. On the other hand, not saying Richard is good, but has shown some flashes in a few starts and in the playoffs. Richard as a 5th starter I am ok with, I don't LOVE it, but I would live with it. But, when you're saying Poreda is going to be in the rotation, I would have to say you're nuts atm.

guillen4life13
11-12-2008, 02:30 PM
Why? What is the difference between 4 good lefties and 4 good righties?
The fact that most hitters are righty. There's a reason they have left handed specialists in the bullpen but you'll rarely (if ever) see a right handed specialist. My ideal rotation would have 3 RHP and 2 LHP, but that's just me. I also wouldn't really like to have a rotation with 4 RHP, but I'd take it over the LHP dominated rotation.

Poreda is a prospect, and from the sounds of it he has 1 pitch, which sounds like bullpen arm. On the other hand, not saying Richard is good, but has shown some flashes in a few starts and in the playoffs. Richard as a 5th starter I am ok with, I don't LOVE it, but I would live with it. But, when you're saying Poreda is going to be in the rotation, I would have to say you're nuts atm.

I think Richard will do alright as a #5 pitcher but I'd rather the Sox had someone better. I also think Poreda will ideally fit in as a reliever in the short term, but I also believe that his future is in the rotation. The rotation I wrote in my previous post was more looking towards 2010 or 2nd half 2009. IIRC, Buddy Bell did say quite recently that he expects Poreda to be ready to start sometime next season.

CashMan
11-12-2008, 02:41 PM
The fact that most hitters are righty. There's a reason they have left handed specialists in the bullpen but you'll rarely (if ever) see a right handed specialist. My ideal rotation would have 3 RHP and 2 LHP, but that's just me. I also wouldn't really like to have a rotation with 4 RHP, but I'd take it over the LHP dominated rotation.



I think Richard will do alright as a #5 pitcher but I'd rather the Sox had someone better. I also think Poreda will ideally fit in as a reliever in the short term, but I also believe that his future is in the rotation. The rotation I wrote in my previous post was more looking towards 2010 or 2nd half 2009. IIRC, Buddy Bell did say quite recently that he expects Poreda to be ready to start sometime next season.


I wouldn't disagree, about how you would like the rotation, I don't care what it is as long as they are good. If that means 5 LHPs, I am fine with it.

If you meant, 2010 that makes a little more sense. I didn't read what Bell said about Poreda about starting soon. I would like to see what Richard could do though.

esbrechtel
11-12-2008, 02:48 PM
So, you are nervous about Richard but want someone who is more unproven in the rotation. Isn't having lefty pitchers a good thing?

You are missing my point. I am saying do not get rid of Javy. I do not want unproven guys in the rotation. I said keep him until Poreda is ready or we have another option. I never said Poreda IS ready.

chaerulez
11-12-2008, 02:56 PM
I wouldn't trade Javy just to get rid of him. He has value he eats 200 IP a season and usually good for a ERA around 4 and can be dominant once in a while. If someone offers a good deal for him, I say take it but just to get rid of him only because he has choked in the last couple big games for us would be foolish and rash.

ode to veeck
11-12-2008, 03:17 PM
NO--absolutely not. Besides if KW thinks it's time to get rid of him then he's probably right. Look at the other pitchers he traded when he felt it was time. Where are they now?

Jon Garland is still a pretty decent arm, another 200 inning season and 14-8 last year, 6th most in Ws since '05, what did we get for him in the long run? one year of a clubhouse cancer?

ode to veeck
11-12-2008, 03:19 PM
Javy has limited trade potential and is a workable 5th starter for now with some upside potential if he could ever get the mental part of the game together on the mound, as he certainly has the stuff to be a decent pitcher, another thought might be to see if he'd make a decent middle reliever as he can strong together 2 or 3 good innings pretty consistently, but that requires another starter

CashMan
11-12-2008, 03:30 PM
Jon Garland is still a pretty decent arm, another 200 inning season and 14-8 last year, 6th most in Ws since '05, what did we get for him in the long run? one year of a clubhouse cancer?


I think the trade was done for the draft picks. I thnk, if they lost Garland, it was 1 pick, and Orlando is 2.

btrain929
11-12-2008, 03:34 PM
Jon Garland is still a pretty decent arm, another 200 inning season and 14-8 last year, 6th most in Ws since '05, what did we get for him in the long run? one year of a clubhouse cancer?

Jon Garland also had a 5 ERA and opponents hit .300 off of him in a pitcher's ballpark.

ode to veeck
11-12-2008, 04:39 PM
Jon Garland also had a 5 ERA and opponents hit .300 off of him in a pitcher's ballpark.

actually it was 4.9 and his numbers have been pretty consistent throughout his career which included some decent years here with the sox

doublem23
11-12-2008, 05:14 PM
actually it was 4.9 and his numbers have been pretty consistent throughout his career which included some decent years here with the sox

If that were true, that would be troublesome anyway, as people have pointed out he moved from the Cell (a notorious hitter's park) to Angel Stadium which is, at best, neutral.

That said, Garland's IP were down, his hits were up, and his strikeouts fell for the 4th straight season. His WHIP was also astronomically up, the highest it has been since he became a full-time starter in 2002.

It's no coincidence the Angels didn't let him touch the ball in their 4-game series with the Red Sox this October.

Craig Grebeck
11-12-2008, 05:22 PM
actually it was 4.9 and his numbers have been pretty consistent throughout his career which included some decent years here with the sox
He is trending backwards, and fast. He doesn't deserve eight figures, which he will be asking for. Any team that gives him over one year is shooting themselves in the foot.

Also, 4.9 and 5 are not far apart.

russ99
11-12-2008, 05:31 PM
For now....

I absolutely would hold on to Javy this offseason and wait to trade him during the season sometime before the deadline. Javy is coming off a poor end of the season last year and can only improve his trade value. Some team will almost definitely get desperate early in the season and look to improve their team any way possible. Heres some examples of recent deadline deals by desperate teams:
1. Tigers got Bonderman and Carlso Pena for Lily
2. Indians got Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips for Bartolo Colon
3. Rays got Kazmir for Victor Zambrano
4. Texas got Micheal Young for Estaban Loiza

Notice all great trades for the teams for some not so great pitchers. So if Javy comes out next year stays healthy and keeps his ERA around 4(which he is very capable of) we will get A LOT more for him at the deadline then we will now. Not to mention Javy still has a contract past this year which would make GM's feel better about giving up their prospects. So unless Kenny get completely overwhelmed before the season lets keep him and see what happens.

I do see what you're getting at, but all those trades were done by teams that either were rebuilding or were very far out of a playoff race.

If Javy was to stay here this offseason, I doubt Kenny would deal him at the deadline since we would be (hopefully, knock on wood) in a pennant race and he'd fill a mid-to-bottom rotation spot nicely. So I say it doesn't matter if we deal him now or later, we should deal him after we already have his replacement.

palehozenychicty
11-13-2008, 09:44 AM
Javy has limited trade potential and is a workable 5th starter for now with some upside potential if he could ever get the mental part of the game together on the mound, as he certainly has the stuff to be a decent pitcher, another thought might be to see if he'd make a decent middle reliever as he can strong together 2 or 3 good innings pretty consistently, but that requires another starter


Teams have been waiting for this since 2004. At a certain point, a spade is a spade. Javier is a good #4 or #5, nothing more or less. He'd be a great #5 if we had a bonafied ace at the top.