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OEO Magglio
05-20-2002, 07:07 PM
This is the second night off in a row for Caballo, either Carlos is hurt, or the Sox might be real close to a trade, what do you guys think?

Garrison
05-20-2002, 07:10 PM
Carlos has gotten the day off a little bit more often as of late. If he isn't hurt, then I think they must be close to a trade and trying to work Leifer in there some more to get him game-sharp. I hope we are close to a trade. A good one at least..... :gulp:

MattSharp
05-20-2002, 07:10 PM
Why would they be benching him if they were gonna trade him? i think he is just off cause he is sucking a lot. I say give Rowand some more PT......

OEO Magglio
05-20-2002, 07:14 PM
The reason they would bench Carlos, is because they dont wanna take a chance of him getting hurt, and that voiding the whole deal.

guillen4life13
05-20-2002, 08:24 PM
i don't want to see him go. when he's on he's a great hitter who has the potential for .320-40-120 with 15-20 stolen bases. I don't wee why they would trade him for anyone unless it's someone who's a complete superstar on the rise like adam dunn.

FanOf14
05-20-2002, 08:37 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing Carlos go for the right price; that means KW getting his head out if his behind and actually getting us something decent for him not getting the wrong player because he got the names mixed up or giving up too much for too little...

ssang
05-20-2002, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by Garrison [/i]
Carlos has gotten the day off a little bit more often as of late. If he isn't hurt, then I think they must be close to a trade and trying to work Leifer in there some more to get him game-sharp. I hope we are close to a trade. A good one at least..... :gulp:

Dude, you must be living in La La land. Anyone on this planet knows damn well that Carlos Lee ain't never gonna hit .320, 40 HR, 120 RBI, and 15-20 SB's. I'm pretty sure that even I have a better feel of the strike zone than Lee. And who would trade a superstar for Lee? I doubt he'd even go for a solid starting pitcher. You sound like a true Cubs fan with your thought process.

MattSharp
05-20-2002, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
i don't want to see him go. when he's on he's a great hitter who has the potential for .320-40-120 with 15-20 stolen bases. I don't wee why they would trade him for anyone unless it's someone who's a complete superstar on the rise like adam dunn.

How can you compare Lee to Adam Dunn? Carlos is in his 4th full season. He has yet to hit more than 24 HRs. He hits a fair amount of doubles and his average is a respectable .284, but this is is 28 and I don't think he about to be a superstar.

Adam Dunn is three years younger than Lee. He is in his first full season. He hit 19 HRs in 66 games last year. Only 5 fewer than Carlos in about half as many games. He is on pace right now to hit 30 HR, but he had a really slow start. I expect him to have 35+ before the year is over. Dunn does strike out a lot, but he also walks a ton too.

Dunn put up monster numbers in the minors and is in his first full year on the verge of stardom. Carlos is in his 4th season on the verge of mediocrity. He could be a good No 2 or No 3 OF one day, but he is hardly a superstar......

Garrison
05-20-2002, 09:54 PM
C Lee is not going to be any sort of superstar. He could very well be a decent hitter throughout his career, but he's only a mediocre fielder and his bat isn't more than average. When he's on a good streak he can put up big numbers and he has potential to be a better hitter than he shows at times, but he's in general been in a slump since middle of last year and he's hitting what now.... .250? I think we could easily deal him to a team on the downward spiral like Detroit or even Cleaveland who has hardly any outfield. They'd give up a decent pitcher for offense.

BTW: ssang, that wasn't me who said Carlos would be a superstar etc. Don't quote me and then criticize someone else's comment with my name up there. My quote had nothing to do with what you were saying anyways. Accusing your fellow fans of being.....cub fans.....isn't going to go over well.

ssang
05-21-2002, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by Garrison

BTW: ssang, that wasn't me who said Carlos would be a superstar etc. Don't quote me and then criticize someone else's comment with my name up there. My quote had nothing to do with what you were saying anyways. Accusing your fellow fans of being.....cub fans.....isn't going to go over well. [/B]


I'm sorry. I didn't mean to do that Garrison. It was unintentioanal. However, you kinda sound like a whiney [explitive] when you actually address it. It's not a big deal. I'm not trying to piss you off or anything. We're Sox fans and that's rare these days in Chicago. I'm just being honest.

ssang
05-21-2002, 01:19 AM
Originally posted by ssang



I'm sorry. I didn't mean to do that Garrison. It was unintentioanal. However, you kinda sound like a whiney [explitive] when you actually address it. It's not a big deal. I'm not trying to piss you off or anything. We're Sox fans and that's rare these days in Chicago. I'm just being honest.

P.S. My original quote was meant to rip on GuillenFan for saying that Carlos Lee has superstar potential.

Nellie_Fox
05-21-2002, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by ssang
I'm pretty sure that even I have a better feel of the strike zone than Lee.
I hope you meant to use teal. These kind of comments by people who sit at home and watch the games always crank me.

When I was a kid I used to play sandlot ball with a kid named Gary Jestadt. This was in the 50's when baseball was king, and everybody played. Gary was so much better than the rest of us it was frightening. He'd field a grounder, and his normal throw over to first would scare the poor kid playing there; you could hear the ball hiss as it came across the diamond. We just assumed he'd get a hit when he came to bat.

Anyway, look him up on one of the historical web sites. He appeared in fewer than 200 MLB games over three seasons as a utility man with the Expos, Flubs and Padres, and was never heard from again.

I know how good Gary Jestadt was, and he was a marginal MLB player. How good must a starter be compared to those of us posting on this board?

FarWestChicago
05-21-2002, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
I know how good Gary Jestadt was, and he was a marginal MLB player. How good must a starter be compared to those of us posting on this board? Score one for Nellie!

Garrison
05-21-2002, 09:24 AM
Ssorry about ssounding whiney ssang. It didn't mean to come off that way. I just didn't like your misquote. But honest mistake is all right. No hard feelings.

Paulwny
05-21-2002, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox

I know how good Gary Jestadt was, and he was a marginal MLB player. How good must a starter be compared to those of us posting on this board?

It always amazes me, I'll bet almost every player in the minors was the "Big Man" in hs or college, yet so few ever make it to the bigs.
Many are signed, few ever make it.

ssang
05-21-2002, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox

I hope you meant to use teal. These kind of comments by people who sit at home and watch the games always crank me.

When I was a kid I used to play sandlot ball with a kid named Gary Jestadt. This was in the 50's when baseball was king, and everybody played. Gary was so much better than the rest of us it was frightening. He'd field a grounder, and his normal throw over to first would scare the poor kid playing there; you could hear the ball hiss as it came across the diamond. We just assumed he'd get a hit when he came to bat.

Anyway, look him up on one of the historical web sites. He appeared in fewer than 200 MLB games over three seasons as a utility man with the Expos, Flubs and Padres, and was never heard from again.

I know how good Gary Jestadt was, and he was a marginal MLB player. How good must a starter be compared to those of us posting on this board?


I don't literally mean that I have a better feel of the strike zone than Lee. My point is that Lee is well below the league average as far as knowing which pitches to swing at. And he should at least be improving with his eye. The reason he sucks and probably will never be a star is because he seems to be regressing in his understanding the strike zone.

Soxboyrob
05-21-2002, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by ssang

My point is that Lee is well below the league average as far as knowing which pitches to swing at. And he should at least be improving with his eye. The reason he sucks and probably will never be a star is because he seems to be regressing in his understanding the strike zone.

That's what has frustrated me most about watching Lee. His batting avg and production would be somewhat acceptable if he'd appear to be improving in the plate discipline department. Once he's got two strikes on him, he's pretty much done and will swing at virtually anything above the zone. Plate discipline is very much a concentration and focus thing. Carlos would see immediate results if he would concentrate on swinging at actual strikes more often.

Chisox353014
05-21-2002, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
How good must a starter be compared to those of us posting on this board?

All it takes is one trip to the batting cages for me to be reminded of this fact. I can barely make contact off the fast-pitch baseball machine, let alone try to deal with major league heat and breaking pitches. The medium-speed 12-inch softball knows my power though! :D:

Bucktown
05-21-2002, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by ssang


Dude, you must be living in La La land. Anyone on this planet knows damn well that Carlos Lee ain't never gonna hit .320, 40 HR, 120 RBI, and 15-20 SB's. I'm pretty sure that even I have a better feel of the strike zone than Lee. And who would trade a superstar for Lee? I doubt he'd even go for a solid starting pitcher. You sound like a true Cubs fan with your thought process.

I am in lala land too. Lee is a great player and will be a superstar some day. Of course most of the people on this board would claim that Sammy Sosa isn't a superstar, so how can one rationally argue with that mindset?

voodoochile
05-21-2002, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by Bucktown


I am in lala land too. Lee is a great player and will be a superstar some day.

Based on what?

Originally posted by Bucktown


I am in lala land too.

That I agree with...

:D:

Bucktown
06-29-2002, 03:45 PM
I thought it would be a good time to re-live this thread. Has anyone changed their position on Carlos Lee?

Paulwny
06-29-2002, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Bucktown
I thought it would be a good time to re-live this thread. Has anyone changed their position on Carlos Lee?

No, I still DON'T want him traded.

baggio202
06-29-2002, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by Bucktown
I thought it would be a good time to re-live this thread. Has anyone changed their position on Carlos Lee?


i think carlos is playing himself into a tradable position and if the market improves a little we should consider moving him...does anyone really want to see an outfield next year of lee- borchard - ordonez left to right???....might as well just have our pitchers throw the ball into the gap...

id move lee and his contract..we gain alot of money when alomar, lofton and clayton leave after this year..maybe more if they decide not to resign ray..we can use that money to go after erstad who was willing to sign a deal to stay here if the trade would have went through and will be a free agent after this season...an outfield of maggs - erstad - borchard left to right is alot more appealing to me

doublem23
06-29-2002, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox

I hope you meant to use teal. These kind of comments by people who sit at home and watch the games always crank me.

When I was a kid I used to play sandlot ball with a kid named Gary Jestadt. This was in the 50's when baseball was king, and everybody played. Gary was so much better than the rest of us it was frightening. He'd field a grounder, and his normal throw over to first would scare the poor kid playing there; you could hear the ball hiss as it came across the diamond. We just assumed he'd get a hit when he came to bat.

Anyway, look him up on one of the historical web sites. He appeared in fewer than 200 MLB games over three seasons as a utility man with the Expos, Flubs and Padres, and was never heard from again.

I know how good Gary Jestadt was, and he was a marginal MLB player. How good must a starter be compared to those of us posting on this board?

Thank you, Nellie. Whenever someone makes a comment like "Man, I could hit better than so-and-so," it always brings a smile to my face. Granted, my health doesn't allow me to play in a top-notch, competive league, but I know how damn hard it is to play baseball. Easily, the most difficult sport to produce in, IMO.