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JUGGERNAUT
05-20-2002, 06:30 PM
1-Nothing the SOX could do to get Erstad.

2-K Wells & J Fogg are pitching in arguably the weakest division offensively in the clearly weakest league offensively.

3-Have you looked at the #'s for DH's the SOX pitching staff has had to face in the first 40 gms? We are talking about .300+ hitters with power! Compare that to the pitchers K Wells & J Fogg has faced.

4-The NL in both pitching & hitting lags behind the AL this year. There are exceptions like RJ & CS, Bonds, but on average the NL is the weaker league.

5-Ritchie has yet to pitch a non-winnable start. Do you really think either Josh Fogg or Kip Wells would have been able to do that given that Buerhle hasn't been able to?

6-Thomas is beginning to heat up. If he can get there before we face MIN, then Ritchie will likely get us a win in MIN. We know Kip couldn't do that.

7-ANA has clearly exceeded OAK right now as the 2nd best team in the ALW.
And if you look at the #'s, if they continue to hit they have a good chance of over-taking SEA because SEA has poor starting pitching.

8-MIN has yet to beat a team playing over .500. The Sox are 4-8 vs such teams.

9-Sean Lowe is not performing any better in Pitt than Osuna is. Now he still might turn out to be the thorn in this deal, but it's yet to happen.

10-With the SOX being 3-5mil overbudget in payroll right now, they did not have the luxury of offering Lowe a mil.

JUGGERNAUT
05-20-2002, 06:48 PM
http://boards.espn.go.com/cgi/mlb/request.dll?MESSAGE&room=mlb_chw&id=139488

hold2dibber
05-20-2002, 06:53 PM
I am not really upset with the Pittsburgh trade - I think Ritchie was a great pick up. However, I would guess (and I know I could be completely wrong here) that we could have gotten Ritchie without giving up both Fogg and Lowe (e.g., K. Wells, Lowe and Ginter instead of Fogg). And either Lowe or especially Fogg would look really nice in the rotation at this point, in light of the struggles/inconsistencies we've had out of the nos. 3-5 spots in the rotation. Regardless of the competition he has faced, Fogg hasn't just been okay or serviceable, he has been oustanding -- just as he was for the Sox after his call up last fall. He is the real deal.

I was glad the Angels trade didn't happen, and still am. If that trade had gone through, we wouldn't have Lofton and I think Erstad is overrated anyway.

bjmarte
05-20-2002, 06:58 PM
I know Lowe was great in the clubhouse and was and pitched well out of the pen a few times, but it takes this year's perfomances from Parque and Rauch to make Lowe an attractive option for a starter.

bjmarte
05-20-2002, 07:00 PM
And in hindsight, Fogg may have been the goal of the trade for the Pirates from the beginning rather than being an add-on.

hold2dibber
05-20-2002, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by bjmarte
And in hindsight, Fogg may have been the goal of the trade for the Pirates from the beginning rather than being an add-on.

That's certainly true. But if that's the case, I'm still betting that the Sox could have retained either Lowe or Wells and thrown in someone else. And while I never thought Lowe was that great, he would be an upgrade at the #5 spot over Rauch or Parque (or would make Glover's addition to the rotation less of a hit to the pen).

Paulwny
05-20-2002, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber


That's certainly true. But if that's the case, I'm still betting that the Sox could have retained either Lowe or Wells and thrown in someone else. And while I never thought Lowe was that great, he would be an upgrade at the #5 spot over Rauch or Parque (or would make Glover's addition to the rotation less of a hit to the pen).

Agree, Lowe was in KW's dog house and was the throw in.

JUGGERNAUT
05-20-2002, 08:47 PM
vs. RH Batters
==============
PLAYER OPP BA AB H 2B 3B HR BB SO HB
------ ------ -- - -- -- -- -- -- --

K Wells .270 89 24 7 1 2 10 23 0
S Lowe .209 67 14 4 0 1 12 19 2
J Fogg .172 87 15 4 0 0 5 21 3

vs. LH Batters
==============
PLAYER OPP BA AB H 2B 3B HR BB SO HB
------ ------ -- - -- -- -- -- -- --

S Lowe .511 47 24 4 1 3 7 8 0
J Fogg .278 90 25 6 1 5 5 14 0
K Wells .276 105 29 4 2 2 11 12 0


vs. RH Batters
==============
PLAYER OPP BA AB H 2B 3B HR BB SO HB
------ ------ -- - -- -- -- -- -- --
T Ritchie .293 116 34 6 0 3 13 15 2

vs. LH Batters
==============
PLAYER OPP BA AB H 2B 3B HR BB SO HB
------ ------ -- - -- -- -- -- -- --
T Ritchie .216 102 22 4 2 3 10 18 1

JUGGERNAUT
05-20-2002, 08:48 PM
<pre>
vs. RH Batters
==============
PLAYER OPP BA AB H 2B 3B HR BB SO HB
------ ------ -- - -- -- -- -- -- --

K Wells .270 89 24 7 1 2 10 23 0
S Lowe .209 67 14 4 0 1 12 19 2
J Fogg .172 87 15 4 0 0 5 21 3

vs. LH Batters
==============
PLAYER OPP BA AB H 2B 3B HR BB SO HB
------ ------ -- - -- -- -- -- -- --

S Lowe .511 47 24 4 1 3 7 8 0
J Fogg .278 90 25 6 1 5 5 14 0
K Wells .276 105 29 4 2 2 11 12 0


vs. RH Batters
==============
PLAYER OPP BA AB H 2B 3B HR BB SO HB
------ ------ -- - -- -- -- -- -- --
T Ritchie .293 116 34 6 0 3 13 15 2

vs. LH Batters
==============
PLAYER OPP BA AB H 2B 3B HR BB SO HB
------ ------ -- - -- -- -- -- -- --
T Ritchie .216 102 22 4 2 3 10 18 1

</pre>

JUGGERNAUT
05-20-2002, 08:52 PM
vs. RH Batters
==============
PLAYER OPP BA AB H 2B 3B HR BB SO HB
------ ------ -- - -- -- -- -- -- --

K Wells .270 89 24 7 1 2 10 23 0
S Lowe .209 67 14 4 0 1 12 19 2
J Fogg .172 87 15 4 0 0 5 21 3

vs. LH Batters
==============
PLAYER OPP BA AB H 2B 3B HR BB SO HB
------ ------ -- - -- -- -- -- -- --

S Lowe .511 47 24 4 1 3 7 8 0
J Fogg .278 90 25 6 1 5 5 14 0
K Wells .276 105 29 4 2 2 11 12 0


vs. RH Batters
==============
PLAYER OPP BA AB H 2B 3B HR BB SO HB
------ ------ -- - -- -- -- -- -- --
T Ritchie .293 116 34 6 0 3 13 15 2

vs. LH Batters
==============
PLAYER OPP BA AB H 2B 3B HR BB SO HB
------ ------ -- - -- -- -- -- -- --
T Ritchie .216 102 22 4 2 3 10 18 1

JUGGERNAUT
05-20-2002, 09:16 PM
http://boards.go.com/cgi/mlb/request.dll?MESSAGE&room=mlb_chw&id=139597