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View Full Version : Sox want Cuban 3B Dayan Viciedo


Sockinchisox
11-08-2008, 04:59 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/1267725,CST-SPT-sox08.article

They apparently want him to play 3B next year.

I remember hearing about him defecting, he's supposed to be a fantastic talent, and is supposedly 19 years old.

His agent, Jamie Torres, says the Sox have the inside track on him and have shown a lot of interest. He also says the Sox have the edge because of Alexei and Contreras.

Konerko05
11-08-2008, 05:07 AM
Very interesting. If he's as talented as Torres says, teams are going to be offering huge contracts. If Williams can come close to the highest offer, I think he would definitely choose the White Sox.

Can a 19 year old from Cuba really be major league ready? I'm thinking he would need at least a couple years in the minors. Then again, I know absolutely nothing about this kid.

RallyBowl
11-08-2008, 06:38 AM
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll19/RallyBowl/dayan2.jpg


From MLBRumors when he defected-

"Viciedo is 6'2", 202 lbs capable of playing SS, 3B, and OF. According to the Havana Journal (http://havanajournal.com/culture/entry/dayan_viciedo_and_cuba_gear_up_for_all_star_baseba ll/), at 16 he was the youngest Cuban All Star in history. At 18, he was chosen to play in the World Baseball Classic in the U.S. and is often compared to Omar Linares (http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Omar_Linares), one of the greatest Cuban players of all time."

Could be older than 19, who cares. Looks and sounds like the "Cuban Frank Thomas" to me. Honestly first I've heard of this dude, but me likey. Go get 'em Kenny.

BadBobbyJenks
11-08-2008, 08:00 AM
He has the same agent as Alexei and Jose. Sounds like we have a very good chance of landing him.

Everyone knows you need to import talent from another country in the offseason to make the playoffs.

gr8mexico
11-08-2008, 08:41 AM
Since age 9, he has played for Cuban national teams in all categories, and at 15 he started playing in the Cuban national championship. He is the first Cuban to play for three national teams at the same time -- 15-16 year-olds, juveniles and majors.

Here is a good description of him:

Standing 6-2 and weighing 202 pounds, Viciedo is known as a powerful batter
and a versatile defender, capable of playing shortstop, third base and outfield,
and he even can pitch. His fastball has been clocked at more than 90 mph, but he
said his pitching days are over

Viciedo, born in March 1989, is listed at 6-foot-1, 210 pounds, but reports
are that he was bigger than that last year at the World Junior Championship in
Mexico. Viciedo has excellent power and hitting ability, however, with one scout
comparing him to Giants prospect Angel Villalona. He slugged over .500 two of
the last three seasons in Cuba’s Serie Nacional, its top-level league, hitting
14 homers in 2005-2006—as a 16-year-old—in his best season.
"His body could go the same route as Livan Hernandez, and when I saw him in Mexico, he wasn’t very good at third base anymore," one international scouting director said. "But he can really hit; in fact, I think he’s probably a better hitter than
Villalona."

twentywontowin
11-08-2008, 08:49 AM
We should have a fantastic shot getting him with Ramirez already on board. Knowing a familiar face in the clubhouse is priceless.

doublem23
11-08-2008, 09:12 AM
Sounds like another plodding slugger.

tick53
11-08-2008, 09:23 AM
Yeah. This is the kid they were talking about last year after Alexei made his big splash. If he has close to the talent that Ramirez does, we'll have a more solid infield with speed, defense and hitting. Let's do it.

soxfan43
11-08-2008, 10:03 AM
I like what I've read so far, get on it Kenny. And if the kid is legit, Kenny can possibly move Fields in a trade. I know he's not a top prospect anymore, but he's got some value. Other than maybe a veteran starter for back of the rotation, I don't see the Sox making any big free agent moves, so the Sox should have some to spend on this guy.

Lukin13
11-08-2008, 10:08 AM
The best advantage the WSox have is that they showed they weren't afraid to go with Alexei immediately. That has to be attractive to a 19 year old kid.

From what Ramirez did alone last year, I can't imagine any Cuban prospects won't get triple what Alexei received.

Viciedo will owe Alexei a few trips to Morton's.

Craig Grebeck
11-08-2008, 10:36 AM
I don't trust Cowley and I'd say there's no chance he starts anywhere next season.

veeter
11-08-2008, 10:43 AM
Got to love his agent. Let's put him in the Hall right now. But Kenny wouldn't be lurking if the guy wasn't good. I like the fact he's only 19, conceivably locking up third for a long time. These are the type of aquisitions I like that Kenny makes.

turners56
11-08-2008, 10:45 AM
Kenny's played the Cuban market very well. This could be very interesting.

Madvora
11-08-2008, 10:54 AM
Would any team be looking to start a 19 year old kid right away, or are they looking to put this guy in their minor leagues?
That's pretty rare thing, but if he can do it, he can do it. What age was Ivan Rodriguez starting on the Rangers... was it 19 or even younger?

turners56
11-08-2008, 10:56 AM
Would any team be looking to start a 19 year old kid right away, or are they looking to put this guy in their minor leagues?
That's pretty rare thing, but if he can do it, he can do it. What age was Ivan Rodriguez starting on the Rangers... was it 19 or even younger?

Alexei Ramirez did it, even though he was 7 years older. Like we saw with Alexei, there's a short adjustment period. I don't know if this guy is really going to start or not, but to just have him in the organization would be awesome.

veeter
11-08-2008, 11:11 AM
If all this is true, it sure doesn't seem he'd sign for the very valuable contract Ramirez did.

gr8mexico
11-08-2008, 11:29 AM
Would any team be looking to start a 19 year old kid right away, or are they looking to put this guy in their minor leagues?
That's pretty rare thing, but if he can do it, he can do it. What age was Ivan Rodriguez starting on the Rangers... was it 19 or even younger?
Miguel Cabrera was 20 when he started in Florida and from what it sounds like he is just like Cabrera. A Big Guy with a Big Bat

EMachine10
11-08-2008, 11:57 AM
I don't trust Cowley and I'd say there's no chance he starts anywhere next season.
I know that Alexei is supposedly 7 years older than him, but that's what a lot of people said last off season. Just saying....IF they are able to sign him, maybe he wins a job. It's not fair to write his name in pen, though.

SoxNation05
11-08-2008, 12:19 PM
Miguel Cabrera was 20 when he started in Florida and from what it sounds like he is just like Cabrera. A Big Guy with a Big Bat
That was actually my initial reaction too. Me likey!

wulfy
11-08-2008, 12:48 PM
Would any team be looking to start a 19 year old kid right away, or are they looking to put this guy in their minor leagues?
That's pretty rare thing, but if he can do it, he can do it. What age was Ivan Rodriguez starting on the Rangers... was it 19 or even younger?

How could you forget Ricky Seilheimer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricky_Seilheimer)??!!

hellview
11-08-2008, 12:58 PM
Miguel Cabrera was 20 when he started in Florida and from what it sounds like he is just like Cabrera. A Big Guy with a Big Bat

Dude Cabrera is on pace for a HOF career, he's generational talent. This Cuban guy isn't fit to hold Miggy's jock.

...
11-08-2008, 01:21 PM
Dude Cabrera is on pace for a HOF career, he's generational talent. This Cuban guy isn't fit to hold Miggy's jock.

:rolleyes: No one anointed him a HOFer. He said he's a big guy with a big bat which looks to be pretty accurate.

thomas35forever
11-08-2008, 01:34 PM
If he's said to be the best Cuban player since Jose, then there's no reason not to get him. If we sign him, I doubt he'll be on the Major League roster as quickly as Alexei. He might not be Evan Longoria, but if he's got serious potential at the Sox get him, then I see very good things for our future.

TheOldRoman
11-08-2008, 01:35 PM
Dude Cabrera is on pace for a HOF career, he's generational talent. This Cuban guy isn't fit to hold Miggy's jock.I don't know what makes Cabrera "once in a generation" being that there are several hitters today who are better than him. Either way, it is prett dumb to say that being that none of us have ever seen this kid play. He most likely won't be that good, but nobody knows.

California Sox
11-08-2008, 01:46 PM
If the guy is as good as Villalona let alone Cabrera, I would do it in a heartbeat. He could likely be considered at 1b, 3b, or corner of long term. Paulie is fading, Swisher is not that good and Brandon Allen is no sure thing as a power-hitting 1b. At 3b we have Fields and Morel, no sure all stars there. And our best outfield prospects are Danks and Shelby, neither of whom profiles as a big-hitting corner. Just for organizational depth and the ability to make trades, this signing sounds good to me.

Craig Grebeck
11-08-2008, 02:13 PM
I don't know what makes Cabrera "once in a generation" being that there are several hitters today who are better than him. Either way, it is prett dumb to say that being that none of us have ever seen this kid play. He most likely won't be that good, but nobody knows.
False.

...
11-08-2008, 02:16 PM
False.
Way to back up your claim.

Craig Grebeck
11-08-2008, 02:20 PM
Way to back up your claim.
Do I need to? He said there are "several" hitters in the game better than Cabrera. I'm guessing that means 10-15. I'm not buying it. Not many 25 year olds have a career OPS+ of 140 over their first five seasons. Other than Pujols, Hanley Ramirez, and maybe Chase Utley, I don't see anyone near Miguel Cabrera in terms of talent.

oeo
11-08-2008, 02:30 PM
I don't trust Cowley and I'd say there's no chance he starts anywhere next season.

I wouldn't normally trust Cowley, but he actually has quotes from the guy's agent that say he wanted Dayan signed a month ago.

Contreras is a gift from the Yankees that just keeps on giving. :cool:

turners56
11-08-2008, 02:33 PM
Dude Cabrera is on pace for a HOF career, he's generational talent. This Cuban guy isn't fit to hold Miggy's jock.

Have you even seen him play to know that he can't hold Cabrera's jock?

TheOldRoman
11-08-2008, 02:39 PM
Do I need to? He said there are "several" hitters in the game better than Cabrera. I'm guessing that means 10-15. I'm not buying it. Not many 25 year olds have a career OPS+ of 140 over their first five seasons. Other than Pujols, Hanley Ramirez, and maybe Chase Utley, I don't see anyone near Miguel Cabrera in terms of talent.I meant a handful. There are a handful of better hitters. Besides, even if there was only one better hitter, Cabrera would not be a "once in a generation" talent.

oeo
11-08-2008, 02:45 PM
I meant a handful. There are a handful of better hitters. Besides, even if there was only one better hitter, Cabrera would not be a "once in a generation" talent.

I think ten years from now, you'll feel differently.

btrain929
11-08-2008, 02:49 PM
Do I need to? He said there are "several" hitters in the game better than Cabrera. I'm guessing that means 10-15. I'm not buying it. Not many 25 year olds have a career OPS+ of 140 over their first five seasons. Other than Pujols, Hanley Ramirez, and maybe Chase Utley, I don't see anyone near Miguel Cabrera in terms of talent.

:o:

Going back to my 4th grade vocabulary notes, several means more than 2 or 3, but not many. Several does NOT equal 10-15. I'm guessing he was saying there is probably around 6 hitters in the game better than Cabrera. If I'm wrong about this, he can correct me.

CashMan
11-08-2008, 02:51 PM
I think ten years from now, you'll feel differently.

Are you talking hitter or baseball player?

Craig Grebeck
11-08-2008, 02:57 PM
:o:

Going back to my 4th grade vocabulary notes, several means more than 2 or 3, but not many. Several does NOT equal 10-15. I'm guessing he was saying there is probably around 6 hitters in the game better than Cabrera. If I'm wrong about this, he can correct me.
It's all relative. Considering there are thirty teams full of position players, 10 to 15 is not that much.

oeo
11-08-2008, 03:11 PM
Are you talking hitter or baseball player?

Hitter. Although, having been a third baseman, he should excel at first base with time and become a pretty good defender there. Despite his size, he is athletic.

TheOldRoman
11-08-2008, 03:14 PM
I think ten years from now, you'll feel differently.We will see. All I am saying is, right now, he isn't really close to Pujols or A-Rod.

Craig Grebeck
11-08-2008, 03:37 PM
We will see. All I am saying is, right now, he isn't really close to Pujols or A-Rod.
Cabrera's age 22, 23, and 24 seasons were much better than Rodriguez. Pujols is on another planet, and might go down as the greatest hitter of this generation. I'd say those three, plus Hanley Ramirez, are far and away the best offensive players in the game.

TheOldRoman
11-08-2008, 03:51 PM
Cabrera's age 22, 23, and 24 seasons were much better than Rodriguez. Pujols is on another planet, and might go down as the greatest hitter of this generation. I'd say those three, plus Hanley Ramirez, are far and away the best offensive players in the game.I agree. We are arguing over semantics. Cabrera is great, but he isn't the single best hitter in baseball right now. I interpret generation in the traditional sense, meaning a quarter century. I would imainge if we go back to the early 80's, the list of hitters better than him would grow larger.

hellview
11-08-2008, 04:09 PM
I agree. We are arguing over semantics. Cabrera is great, but he isn't the single best hitter in baseball right now. I interpret generation in the traditional sense, meaning a quarter century. I would imainge if we go back to the early 80's, the list of hitters better than him would grow larger.

When I said generation talent that doesn't mean he's the best player of the 25-30 years but IMO he's no doubt in the top 10-15 player over that time.

Just look at the stat comps throught age 25.

Griffey
Hank Aaron
Orlando Cepeda
Frank Robinson
Mantle
Vlad
Al Kaline

Alot of things can happen that could derail his career, but that's pretty good company to be in.

Bucky F. Dent
11-08-2008, 04:19 PM
Very interesting. If he's as talented as Torres says, teams are going to be offering huge contracts. If Williams can come close to the highest offer, I think he would definitely choose the White Sox.

Can a 19 year old from Cuba really be major league ready? I'm thinking he would need at least a couple years in the minors. Then again, I know absolutely nothing about this kid.

We asked the same questions about Alexei last winter. Granted, we can't expect that to happen everytime. Still, given our lack of young talent, it would be worth the risk, especially if he signed a contract in the same range as Alexei's.

hellview
11-08-2008, 04:24 PM
We asked the same questions about Alexei last winter. Granted, we can't expect that to happen everytime. Still, given our lack of young talent, it would be worth the risk, especially if he signed a contract in the same range as Alexei's.

Alexei is 27 year old, this guy is 19. That's a pretty big difference in terms of producing at an MLB level.

What warm would be done in him starting the high in high-A. If he's good he'll be in the majors soon enough. If not he can get right in the minors.

EMachine10
11-08-2008, 04:29 PM
I really want to see this come to fruition. If he doesn't work out this year, then we go with what we were planning on doing anyway, which by most accounts was Josh Fields, and maybe even bring back Uribe on a new contract while this kid hones his game in the minors. I want to see this kid signed though. His potential gives him the opportunity pay off way more than giving money to a few mediocre free agents or stop-gap type of guys.

WhiteSoxFan84
11-08-2008, 05:21 PM
Joe Cawley was on the Score talking about this kid and said the Sox have a very good chance of signing him and Alexei had nothing but great things to say about him.

I see the kid signing with us. Hmmm.... this kid, Alexei, and Carlos Quentin or Fukudome? Wow... how wrong were me and everyone else who wanted that guy last offseason? Yikes.

guillen4life13
11-08-2008, 05:46 PM
False.

There are only 3-4 hitters I would rather have than Cabrera: Pujols, ManRam, HanRam, and Alex Rodriguez.

It's pretty rare for someone to be so young and good.

KyWhiSoxFan
11-08-2008, 05:59 PM
If the Sox sign Viciedo I think it is a sure bet that Fields is the starting 3B and it will be his until someone takes the job from him. That would lead to signing a veteran utility infielder who can play 3B (maybe they already have that person in Nix) when Fields fails to field or continues being a K machine.

Hopefully, the Sox sign Viciedo and he is the starting 3B by mid-year 2009. I can't stand the thought of watching Fields at third.

JermaineDye05
11-08-2008, 06:05 PM
If the Sox sign Viciedo I think it is a sure bet that Fields is the starting 3B and it will be his until someone takes the job from him. That would lead to signing a veteran utility infielder who can play 3B (maybe they already have that person in Nix) when Fields fails to field or continues being a K machine.

Hopefully, the Sox sign Viciedo and he is the starting 3B by mid-year 2009. I can't stand the thought of watching Fields at third.

Not necessarily, although he is only 19. When listening to the Score, Cowley said that when he asked Alexei about Viciedo he said that he's the real deal and "This kid is as ready as I was." If that's the case then wow. Didn't Felix Hernandez break in the big leagues when he was 19?

I would be all for signing this guy, if he doesn't pan out immediately, he's 19 so there's plenty of time to reach the potential.

munchman33
11-08-2008, 06:08 PM
Not necessarily, although he is only 19. When listening to the Score, Cowley said that when he asked Alexei about Viciedo he said that he's the real deal and "This kid is as ready as I was." If that's the case then wow. Didn't Felix Hernandez break in the big leagues when he was 19?

I would be all for signing this guy, if he doesn't pan out immediately, he's 19 so there's plenty of time to reach the potential.

Not really. He'd very likely require a lot of money and a major league deal. Meaning he'll be here from day one. But I'm for it too. He's worth the risk, given everything I've heard about him.

...
11-08-2008, 06:13 PM
There are only 3-4 hitters I would rather have than Cabrera: Pujols, ManRam, HanRam, and Alex Rodriguez.

It's pretty rare for someone to be so young and good.

Just stop it.

KyWhiSoxFan
11-08-2008, 06:15 PM
Not necessarily, although he is only 19. When listening to the Score, Cowley said that when he asked Alexei about Viciedo he said that he's the real deal and "This kid is as ready as I was." If that's the case then wow. Didn't Felix Hernandez break in the big leagues when he was 19?

I would be all for signing this guy, if he doesn't pan out immediately, he's 19 so there's plenty of time to reach the potential.

Yes, ideally he is so good he starts on day one. I would love that to be the case because that would fill one gaping hole and allow KW to attend to some other, pressing matters.

guillen4life13
11-08-2008, 06:17 PM
Just stop it.
:tongue::tongue:

Chill out.

KyWhiSoxFan
11-08-2008, 06:18 PM
Not really. He'd very likely require a lot of money and a major league deal. Meaning he'll be here from day one. But I'm for it too. He's worth the risk, given everything I've heard about him.

My guess is KW has an agreement with the agent and will be given an opportunity to match any offer. So, once the market is set, KW can come in and sign him. This is one reason I want to see Javy gone, to free up $11.5milion next year for other things. The Sox don't need to pay a 5th starter that kind of money.

hellview
11-08-2008, 06:20 PM
Not necessarily, although he is only 19. When listening to the Score, Cowley said that when he asked Alexei about Viciedo he said that he's the real deal and "This kid is as ready as I was." If that's the case then wow. Didn't Felix Hernandez break in the big leagues when he was 19?

I would be all for signing this guy, if he doesn't pan out immediately, he's 19 so there's plenty of time to reach the potential.

I keep hearing people bring up Carbera, Pudge, Felix and others that broke into the majors at 19-20 years old.

If this guy isn't anywhere near that good to jump into the majors at 19 he's have a alot more hype around him and other teams would be ready with blank checks to sign him.

DumpJerry
11-08-2008, 06:27 PM
My guess is KW has an agreement with the agent and will be given an opportunity to match any offer. So, once the market is set, KW can come in and sign him. This is one reason I want to see Javy gone, to free up $11.5milion next year for other things. The Sox don't need to pay a 5th starter that kind of money.

That is not allowed under the rules. When bidding on a FA, teams cannot be told what the competing offers are, only that there are other, better, offers on the table. This is how Borass extorted all that money from the Rangers for A-Rod. He lied when he told them there were higher offers on the table knowing the Rangers had no way to confirm this. He was lying and the Rangers called his bluff and upped their offer.

If this guy isn't anywhere near that good to jump into the majors at 19 he's have a alot more hype around him and other teams would be ready with blank checks to sign him.
...and you know this from watching him play where?

...
11-08-2008, 06:29 PM
I keep hearing people bring up Carbera, Pudge, Felix and others that broke into the majors at 19-20 years old.

If this guy isn't anywhere near that good to jump into the majors at 19 he's have a alot more hype around him and other teams would be ready with blank checks to sign him.

The same teams that were ready with blank checks to sign Alexei???

How'd he work out his first year? Where was the hype?

Craig Grebeck
11-08-2008, 06:31 PM
The same teams that were ready with blank checks to sign Alexei???

How'd he work out his first year? Where was the hype?
Not at all comparable. There was some hype before Alexei sucked in the Dominican Winter League before dropping out and settling on a lesser deal with the White Sox.

Plus, Alexei is 26.

...
11-08-2008, 06:32 PM
Not at all comparable. There was some hype before Alexei sucked in the Dominican Winter League before dropping out and settling on a lesser deal with the White Sox.

Plus, Alexei is 26.


This kid is as ready as Alexei was. Don't take my word for it...

hellview
11-08-2008, 06:32 PM
...and you know this from watching him play where?

You can't hide good players from teams, Latin America, Asia, South America, Europe or whereever teams know about the top young talent around the world..and if he's "so good" to roll into the majors at 19 (which I highly doubt) other teams are on to him and it's will turn into a bidding war like it was for Contreras, Feliz, Cabrera and other talent from outside the US.

Craig Grebeck
11-08-2008, 06:33 PM
This kid is as ready as Alexei was. Don't take my word for it...
What do you expect Alexei to say?

hellview
11-08-2008, 06:35 PM
This kid is as ready as Alexei was. Don't take my word for it...

What the **** do you expect Alexei to say.."no I think he's gonna have to sit in the minors for 3-4 years before he's MLB ready"

Orcourse he's gonna hype the guy like he's the second coming...It wil make Viciedo more money

...
11-08-2008, 06:37 PM
What the **** do you expect Alexei to say.."no I think he's gonna have to sit in the minors for 3-4 years before he's MLB ready"

Orcourse he's gonna hype the guy like he's the second coming...It wil make Viciedo more money

Ok, the guy sucks. You're right.

hellview
11-08-2008, 06:40 PM
Ok, the guy sucks. You're right.

I didn't say he sucks god dammit. But all these people that really think at 19 he's gonna roll into the majors and produce are kidding themselves. Bringing up King Felix, Miggy Cabrera and Pudge is just assinine...

Craig Grebeck
11-08-2008, 06:40 PM
Ok, the guy sucks. You're right.
Why do you have to play the strawman? Hellview's point was that Viciedo's situation and Alexei's situation are nowhere near similar. Yes, they are both Cuban -- but that doesn't mean they have the same talent level or polish. If Viciedo is good enough to start at 19, there will be a dozen teams offering good money.

JermaineDye05
11-08-2008, 06:42 PM
Okay we have to sign this guy now, simply for the It's Always Sunny references.

http://www.citizenrobot.com/images/dayman.gif

"Dayan
AHHHH
3rd baseman on the South Side
AHHHH
Champion of the Show
AHHHH
You're a master with the leather and the stick. Who now needs Joe?

Dayan, Dayan
AHHHH"

...
11-08-2008, 06:43 PM
Why do you have to play the strawman? Hellview's point was that Viciedo's situation and Alexei's situation are nowhere near similar. Yes, they are both Cuban -- but that doesn't mean they have the same talent level or polish. If Viciedo is good enough to start at 19, there will be a dozen teams offering good money.

What is your point?

hellview
11-08-2008, 06:43 PM
Okay we have to sign this guy now, simply for the It's Always Sunny references.

http://www.citizenrobot.com/images/dayman.gif

"Dayan
AHHHH
3rd baseman on the South Side
AHHHH
Champion of the Show
AHHHH
You're a master with the leather and the stick. Who now needs Joe?

Dayan, Dayan
AHHHH"

You earned an A for effort behind, any IASIP reference is ok by me.

gr8mexico
11-08-2008, 06:43 PM
I keep hearing people bring up Carbera, Pudge, Felix and others that broke into the majors at 19-20 years old.

If this guy isn't anywhere near that good to jump into the majors at 19 he's have a alot more hype around him and other teams would be ready with blank checks to sign him.
Do you even read your own post before you post.

Craig Grebeck
11-08-2008, 06:44 PM
What is your point?
There will be more hype, and we probably won't have the inside track based on relationships. There will be tons of money thrown at him.

DumpJerry
11-08-2008, 06:45 PM
You can't hide good players from teams, Latin America, Asia, South America, Europe or whereever teams know about the top young talent around the world..and if he's "so good" to roll into the majors at 19 (which I highly doubt) other teams are on to him and it's will turn into a bidding war like it was for Contreras, Feliz, Cabrera and other talent from outside the US.
He was just allowed to be a FA by MLB. How do you know there won't be a bidding war for him or that one has not already started?

Are you really Scott Borass? If so, I could understand your approach given that Crede has kinda blown up in your face and Viciedo is not a client of yours.

hellview
11-08-2008, 06:46 PM
Do you even read your own post before you post.

proof-reading is for losers...

JermaineDye05
11-08-2008, 06:46 PM
You earned an A for effort behind, any IASIP reference is ok by me.

Haha. Yeah it doesn't flow too well but IF we do sign him, I'll be sure to make it flow and bring a sign to the Cell. Maybe it'll catch on? You never know :D:

...
11-08-2008, 06:48 PM
There will be more hype, and we probably won't have the inside track based on relationships. There will be tons of money thrown at him.


Hype as in media hype?

What about hype from former teammates?

Craig Grebeck
11-08-2008, 06:50 PM
Hype as in media hype?

What about hype from former teammates?
I'm sorry, but I don't consider Alexei to have the most objective viewpoint -- especially when talking to a hack like Joe Cowley.

gr8mexico
11-08-2008, 06:50 PM
You can't hide good players from teams, Latin America, Asia, South America, Europe or whereever teams know about the top young talent around the world..and if he's "so good" to roll into the majors at 19 (which I highly doubt) other teams are on to him and it's will turn into a bidding war like it was for Contreras, Feliz, Cabrera and other talent from outside the US.
The same bidding war everybody got into for Alexei Ramirez. The Kid is going to get payed but it wont be a crazy amount of money. Alexei Ramirez is really good friends with him and "might" convience him to sign with the Sox. Also Jose Contreras might give his input about signing with a team like the Yankees and the pressure the team puts on you.

...
11-08-2008, 06:51 PM
I'm sorry, but I don't consider Alexei to have the most objective viewpoint -- especially when talking to a hack like Joe Cowley.

I have no ammo for your cynicism, sorry.

Craig Grebeck
11-08-2008, 06:53 PM
I have no ammo for your cynicism, sorry.
I don't really think it is cynical to consider Alexei to be a biased judge of this kid's talent. I'm sure he's going to be positive when talking to Joe Cowley, but probably a bit more candid and realistic when talking to KW.

oeo
11-08-2008, 07:22 PM
There will be more hype, and we probably won't have the inside track based on relationships. There will be tons of money thrown at him.

That doesn't mean we don't have an 'inside track,' it just means we will have to pay more. Could he take less than another team offers to play with Contreras and Alexei? Sure. This isn't the same as your average free agent, where top money will win the player. The guy is going to be completely changing cultures, and I think we have an advantage over most teams with Alexei and Contreras, as well as a Latin manager.

Thome25
11-08-2008, 08:00 PM
If the White Sox sign the Cuban 3rd baseman then what do they do with Fields? Looks like if we do, that KW will be building up to a big trade that includes Fields.

munchman33
11-08-2008, 09:05 PM
If the White Sox sign the Cuban 3rd baseman then what do they do with Fields? Looks like if we do, that KW will be building up to a big trade that includes Fields.

That's an option. Backup 3B, OF, DH is also an option. Thome's replacement at DH in 2010 is also another option. Insurance at 3B in case the kid isn't ready would be most likely.

HomeFish
11-08-2008, 09:37 PM
Sign him, let him "compete" for the 3B job in spring training, then stick him in AAA until he's ready to replace Josh Fields.

We've had nothing but success with Cuban players thus far. I think it's a very far-sighted move for Kenny to be attentive to the Cuban market. At the very least, it will give us the inside track on the players that come out of there; perhaps, if US-Cuba relations liberalize, it will give the White Sox something of a fan base in a country that loves baseball as much as we do.

PaleHoser
11-08-2008, 10:30 PM
Alex Rodriguez played his first game with the Mariners when he was 18. Hit .358 when he was 20.

I'm just sayin'...

oeo
11-09-2008, 12:47 AM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-09-rogers-boxnov09,0,1587045.story

This article takes a bit of a different look at Viciedo. It makes him sound more like Alexei did coming in (talented, but very raw). Although, no one ever questioned Alexei's commitment, as it appears Viciedo is lazy.

SoxSpeed22
11-09-2008, 12:48 AM
I don't really care about age as long as he can play. I think that the Sox should have a good shot at getting Viciedo. He has the same agent as Alexei and Jose. Also, Alexei has nothing but good things to say about Viciedo. It can pay off in the short-term as well as the long-term.
Edit: I also don't think that Josh Fields is our guy at third base, just based on what has happened over the last two years. Even though he was hurt last year. I would make it an open competition, if we can keep Uribe.

oeo
11-09-2008, 12:57 AM
I don't really care about age as long as he can play.

From looking at that close up picture, I don't know how anyone can question his age.

Sox4ever77
11-09-2008, 03:08 AM
From looking at that close up picture, I don't know how anyone can question his age.


You really think he looks 19? I was say at least 22. But we'll see.

TheOldRoman
11-09-2008, 03:17 AM
That is not allowed under the rules. When bidding on a FA, teams cannot be told what the competing offers are, only that there are other, better, offers on the table. This is how Borass extorted all that money from the Rangers for A-Rod. He lied when he told them there were higher offers on the table knowing the Rangers had no way to confirm this. He was lying and the Rangers called his bluff and upped their offer.


...and you know this from watching him play where?
:?: No, the Rangers didn't call his bluff. Calling his bluff would have been if they said "You're a liar. If someone is offering you that money, go ahead and take it. $XX mil a year is our final offer."

soxfanreggie
11-09-2008, 03:20 AM
With what we got from Alexei, I hope we're looking at every talented player from Cuba. Hopefully having Jose and Alexei associated with the team helps. It seems like this agent is a gateway to Cuban talent. How many other people does he manage? How easy would it be for him is a lot of his main clients were in one area.

cws05champ
11-09-2008, 08:38 AM
Not really. He'd very likely require a lot of money and a major league deal. Meaning he'll be here from day one. But I'm for it too. He's worth the risk, given everything I've heard about him.
Signing a major league deal doesn't mean he'll start with the Sox, it means he will go on the 40 man roster, like some of the 1st round talent that signs ML deals(Porcello).

Conventional wisdom suggests he would start somewhere in the minors, but I think we are a bit drunk on the success of Alexei...that causes us to be overly optimistic.

DumpJerry
11-09-2008, 08:41 AM
:?: No, the Rangers didn't call his bluff. Calling his bluff would have been if they said "You're a liar. If someone is offering you that money, go ahead and take it. $XX mil a year is our final offer."
You're right, I was tired last night. The Rangers allowed themselves to get hosed by Borass.

oeo
11-09-2008, 10:51 AM
You really think he looks 19? I was say at least 22. But we'll see.

No, we won't ever see, but yes, he does look that young.

soltrain21
11-09-2008, 10:54 AM
You really think he looks 19? I was say at least 22. But we'll see.


There is a difference between how a 19 and a 22 year old looks? News to me.

slavko
11-09-2008, 11:42 AM
Does this prove that a team doesn't need a farm system that produces prospects? Of course it doesn't, and I am encouraged by the thread on reorganization and professionalization of ours. Is he named after the Israeli general?

I agree with you that Fields is not going to be an MLB 3B five years from now, if he is in MLB.

Paulwny
11-09-2008, 12:01 PM
FWIW,
Phil Rogers' article with some negative views on Viciendo.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-09-rogers-boxnov09,0,1587045.story

kidmccarthy
11-09-2008, 12:30 PM
FWIW,
Phil Rogers' article with some negative views on Viciendo.

If the cubs were interested, would he write that same article? I doubt it. What an idiot.

Craig Grebeck
11-09-2008, 12:32 PM
If the cubs were interested, would he write that same article? I doubt it. What an idiot.
Uhhh, probably. There's scouts who don't think much of Viciedo. He's reporting the facts.

PalehosePlanet
11-09-2008, 12:38 PM
You really think he looks 19? I was say at least 22. But we'll see.

Why would the Cuban National team have listed him at 16 years old instead of, as you suggest, 19 during international contests 3 years ago?
It makes no sense for them to lie.

Trust me, the Cuban Government has no interest in making their players more attractive and marketable to MLB. The last thing they want is their players to defect to the US.

Sox4ever77
11-09-2008, 12:40 PM
No, we won't ever see, but yes, he does look that young.

Umm wrong, many Cubans have been found to lie about their age.

And yes, you can tell the difference between somebody who is 22 and 19, for most people.

WHILEPITCH
11-09-2008, 12:40 PM
So what kind of contract is this guy probably going to want?

Short term, or longer but lets him get out of it if he's blowing up stats wise?

PalehosePlanet
11-09-2008, 12:50 PM
So what kind of contract is this guy probably going to want?

Short term, or longer but lets him get out of it if he's blowing up stats wise?

I have no information whatsoever, but based on the Alexei deal and given Viciedo's age -- he could still end up in AA or AAA -- my best guess would be 4 or 5 years for about 5 to 8 million.

Again: Just a guess.

gr8mexico
11-09-2008, 04:26 PM
FWIW,
Phil Rogers' article with some negative views on Viciendo.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-09-rogers-boxnov09,0,1587045.story
If Peter Bjarkman described in a negative way I would be concerned . Here is some info on Peter
http://www.bjarkman.com/

hellview
11-09-2008, 06:41 PM
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=1789

It seems the common thread is concerns about his work ethic and attitude.

Whitesox029
11-09-2008, 06:56 PM
The best advantage the WSox have is that they showed they weren't afraid to go with Alexei immediately. That has to be attractive to a 19 year old kid.

From what Ramirez did alone last year, I can't imagine any Cuban prospects won't get triple what Alexei received.

Viciedo will owe Alexei a few trips to Morton's.
The Sox gave Ramirez a shot in a hole we needed to fill (2B), but he really capitalized on it. That is why they went with him immediately. If Viciedo could perform the same way, that would be awesome.

...
11-09-2008, 07:08 PM
Uhhh, probably. There's scouts who don't think much of Viciedo. He's reporting the facts.

I've got a fact for you...

Craig Grebeck
11-09-2008, 08:09 PM
I've got a fact for you...
Enlighten me.

WhiteSox5187
11-09-2008, 08:34 PM
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=1789

It seems the common thread is concerns about his work ethic and attitude.
Ozzie will fix him!

RockJock07
11-10-2008, 12:00 AM
Ozzie will fix him!

You write that in teal but I would bet that if he's lazy or doesn't work hard Ozzie, Kenny, and Alexei will be on his ass. He wouldn't be in Cuba anymore, he's not going to be the big fish in the little pond, this is the big boy league and you better act like one.

All these questions about his work ethic and attitude would be handled with a closed door meeting with Ozzie.

I want this to happen. My options at 3rd go like this

1. Viciedo
2. Beltre
3. Fields

hellview
11-10-2008, 12:04 AM
I want this to happen. My options at 3rd go like this

1. Viciedo
2. Beltre
3. Fields

Nobody heard of this guy 4 days ago and now he's the number 1 option for 3b even though he's gonna need time in the minors and is only 19...wow

35th and Shields
11-10-2008, 12:09 AM
Nobody heard of this guy 4 days ago and now he's the number 1 option for 3b even though he's gonna need time in the minors and is only 19...wow

While I agree that he probably has less then a 10% chance of starting at third next year. While rule him out right away? If the sox do sign him, lets see how does in spring before we slide him to any position.

hellview
11-10-2008, 12:12 AM
While I agree that he probably has less then a 10% chance of starting at third next year. While rule him out right away? If the sox do sign him, lets see how does in spring before we slide him to any position.

Why would you start a 19 year old in the majors right away. There's a reason guys go to the minors, epecially guys that young. You would be potential hurting him more by starting him in the majors then just sending him to high-A and let him work his way up. If he's good enough he'll be up, if not he can learn in the minors.

There's a reason top draft picks outta college just don't go straight to the majors.

oeo
11-10-2008, 12:38 AM
Why would you start a 19 year old in the majors right away. There's a reason guys go to the minors, epecially guys that young. You would be potential hurting him more by starting him in the majors then just sending him to high-A and let him work his way up. If he's good enough he'll be up, if not he can learn in the minors.

There's a reason top draft picks outta college just don't go straight to the majors.

His age should really be irrelevant. We don't know the level he plays at.

Whether he's ready to play big league ball is to be seen, but his age should not be the determining factor. You look at a guy like Alexei, who is 26, but never played in the States. Did his age really make the difference? Or was it his actual talent? Alexei was very raw (still is in some aspects), so don't tell me that he was a polished player.

gr8mexico
11-10-2008, 01:04 AM
Nobody heard of this guy 4 days ago and now he's the number 1 option for 3b even though he's gonna need time in the minors and is only 19...wow
Im not sure where you been but this guy has been talked about since last year when he arrived. No one heard about you 4 days ago and now that we start talking about 3rd baseman you come out. Im starting to think your Joe Crede:D:

Nellie_Fox
11-10-2008, 01:39 AM
And yes, you can tell the difference between somebody who is 22 and 19, for most people.Really? Maybe it's just because I'm old, but my students are in that age range, and they all look pretty much the same age to me.

35th and Shields
11-10-2008, 01:49 AM
Why would you start a 19 year old in the majors right away. There's a reason guys go to the minors, epecially guys that young. You would be potential hurting him more by starting him in the majors then just sending him to high-A and let him work his way up. If he's good enough he'll be up, if not he can learn in the minors.

There's a reason top draft picks outta college just don't go straight to the majors.

Well, if you read my post, that's why I said we should see what he does in spring before we all act like we know exactly how good he is, when we really have no idea.

...
11-10-2008, 03:00 AM
Nobody heard of this guy 4 days ago and now he's the number 1 option for 3b even though he's gonna need time in the minors and is only 19...wow

Nobody as in you?

guillensdisciple
11-10-2008, 03:07 AM
My dad was telling me about this guy about the same time the White Sox signed Alexei. We were in Cuba last winter and all of my family members were telling me that the best Cuban baseball players in America right now are Orlando Hernandez, Jose Contreras, Alexei Ramirez, and this really young third basemen.

I had no idea who they were talking about, but this is it.

My family hasn't let me down yet with these Cuban baseball players, and if he was supposed to be the next best thing in Cuba, which has a very proud and excellent tradition of baseball, why not sign him up?

He won't command more then 5 million on the free agent market and if he comes out the way he is supposed to, the White Sox will have another steal in their organization for years to come.

Oh and sorry to Josh Fields if this does go through.

...
11-10-2008, 03:35 AM
Enlighten me.

Figure it out.

hellview
11-10-2008, 08:22 AM
His age should really be irrelevant. We don't know the level he plays at.

Whether he's ready to play big league ball is to be seen, but his age should not be the determining factor. You look at a guy like Alexei, who is 26, but never played in the States. Did his age really make the difference? Or was it his actual talent? Alexei was very raw (still is in some aspects), so don't tell me that he was a polished player.

Lets make believe that he might be MLB ready at 19 (which he's not) It's could be incredibly detrimental to a young players development. Could David Price at worst been a number 5 pitch in the league right outta college, ofcourse. But hundreds of young players have been ruined by getting rush to the majors.

If the Sox sign this guy, they would be doing a disservice to themselves and this kid to start him in the majors right away.

munchman33
11-10-2008, 09:11 AM
Nobody heard of this guy 4 days ago and now he's the number 1 option for 3b even though he's gonna need time in the minors and is only 19...wow

While I agree with the sentiment that going into the season with him as our best option at 3B wouldn't work (unless it's the only question on the team and we keep Fields for backup), if you haven't heard of the kid you're really not paying attention. He's the kind of talent where if he were in the draft, he'd be the clear #1.

Craig Grebeck
11-10-2008, 09:14 AM
While I agree with the sentiment that going into the season with him as our best option at 3B wouldn't work (unless it's the only question on the team and we keep Fields for backup), if you haven't heard of the kid you're really not paying attention. He's the kind of talent where if he were in the draft, he'd be the clear #1.
It's not that type of situation at all. If we're relying on quotes from either his agent, or Alexei, then we're not getting a very good idea of his value.

Rockabilly
11-10-2008, 09:26 AM
Lets say the Sox sign Viciedo and make a trade for Cano

Where does that put Beckham . I think Gordon will be with the Sox after the all- star break..

hellview
11-10-2008, 09:31 AM
Lets say the Sox sign Viciedo and make a trade for Cano

Where does that put Beckham . I think Gordon will be with the Sox after the all- star break..

First off you don't worry about where minor leaguers are gonna play. If there good enough you worry about it when they're knocking on the door.

As for Beckham you have got to be crazy to think that Beckham will be in the majors by July/August. He'll start in high-A and more then likely he ready bu mid-2010.

oeo
11-10-2008, 09:34 AM
Lets make believe that he might be MLB ready at 19 (which he's not) It's could be incredibly detrimental to a young players development. Could David Price at worst been a number 5 pitch in the league right outta college, ofcourse. But hundreds of young players have been ruined by getting rush to the majors.

If the Sox sign this guy, they would be doing a disservice to themselves and this kid to start him in the majors right away.

You do not know his level of play, stop acting like you do. You can't compare him to the average college player, because he's not the average college player. Age is irrelevant! Seriously, stop acting like his age is any determining factor. If the kid can play, the kid can play.

hellview
11-10-2008, 09:34 AM
While I agree with the sentiment that going into the season with him as our best option at 3B wouldn't work (unless it's the only question on the team and we keep Fields for backup), if you haven't heard of the kid you're really not paying attention. He's the kind of talent where if he were in the draft, he'd be the clear #1.

No he's not, I've read or heard nothing that made this kid sound like that. And if he was that good to be top of the draft like talent teams would be throwing blank checks at his agent all day.

cws05champ
11-10-2008, 09:36 AM
Lets say the Sox sign Viciedo and make a trade for Cano

Where does that put Beckham . I think Gordon will be with the Sox after the all- star break..
I don't think Beckham will be with the Sox anytime before Sept call ups (if at all this year). At least I'm hoping they don't rush him up this year.

All reports on this kid say that he can play 3B but not how well. What makes him a better option than Fields right now? Or if he can even hit ML pitchers? And long term the scouts say he projects to be a 1B/DH.

In a perfect world if Viciedo comes in right away and lights it up and we get Cano and Beckham is tearing up the Minors...you have a very good problem on your hands. Odds are all of those things are not going to happen even if Dayan signs and we do trade for Cano.

Craig Grebeck
11-10-2008, 09:37 AM
Lets say the Sox sign Viciedo and make a trade for Cano

Where does that put Beckham . I think Gordon will be with the Sox after the all- star break..
Viciedo will probably be in A-AA ball and Gordon will be in AA-AAA ball.

oeo
11-10-2008, 09:39 AM
No he's not,...

Would you stop with these statements? How the hell do you know? There's basically no information on the kid.

Is it because he's 19? :lol:

hellview
11-10-2008, 09:42 AM
Would you stop with these statements? How the hell do you know? There's basically no information on the kid.

Because he's not top of the draft talent ya moron. There's articles about hin on BA and Sickles and not one of them say one thing about him being top draft like talent.

They all actually say he can't play defense, has attitude problems and is somewhat comparable to Angel Villalona.

Rockabilly
11-10-2008, 09:50 AM
Beckham is a special talent.. I predict that he will be with the Sox by mid season...

If he is ready bring him up just how the Sox did with Frank Thomas..

oeo
11-10-2008, 09:51 AM
Because he's not top of the draft talent ya moron. There's articles about hin on BA and Sickles and not one of them say one thing about him being top draft like talent.

They all actually say he can't play defense, has attitude problems and is somewhat comparable to Angel Villalona.

This is a typical response. Hey, this guy doesn't agree with me, he's a ****ing moron. :scratch:

Here's some advice: don't trust everything you read about Cuban players. No one has much information on them.

Rockabilly
11-10-2008, 09:51 AM
Ivan Rodguriez was 19 years old when the Rangers gave him his shot....

munchman33
11-10-2008, 09:56 AM
No he's not, I've read or heard nothing that made this kid sound like that. And if he was that good to be top of the draft like talent teams would be throwing blank checks at his agent all day.

Are you a scout? Unless you're a scout, I don't know what allows you to say that with any sort of authority. Everything I've heard, and this is before the rumored White Sox interest, is that he's the best talent ever produced in Cuba.

Rockabilly
11-10-2008, 09:58 AM
Because he's not top of the draft talent ya moron. There's articles about hin on BA and Sickles and not one of them say one thing about him being top draft like talent.

They all actually say he can't play defense, has attitude problems and is somewhat comparable to Angel Villalona.


I remember a lot of scouts saying that Alexei had no power and poor defense skills with his bad foot work..

hellview
11-10-2008, 09:58 AM
Beckham is a special talent.. I predict that he will be with the Sox by mid season...

If he is ready bring him up just how the Sox did with Frank Thomas..

I quit...


This is a typical response. Hey, this guy doesn't agree with me, he's a ****ing moron. :scratch:

Here's some advice: don't trust everything you read about Cuban players. No one has much information on them.


Hahaha...are you slow? So Baseball America doesn't know anything about this guy. They just wrote the article off lies and rumors?

Nobody knew anything about Contreras, that's why the Yankees and Red Sox got into a huge bidding war over him. Kenny just felt like throwing millions at Alexei even though he was a complete unknown and noone knew anyone about him cause he was from Cuba.

Your making yourself look really stupid right now.

hellview
11-10-2008, 10:04 AM
I remember a lot of scouts saying that Alexei had no power and poor defense skills with his bad foot work..

Yeah cause guys that are home run champs in Cuba have no power.


Are you a scout? Unless you're a scout, I don't know what allows you to say that with any sort of authority. Everything I've heard, and this is before the rumored White Sox interest, is that he's the best talent ever produced in Cuba.


Sweet ****ing christ...I can't take it anymore. Where do you people come from?


Ivan Rodguriez was 19 years old when the Rangers gave him his shot....


Way to use a HOF player to make your point...any other extreme cases you wanna use?

oeo
11-10-2008, 10:09 AM
I quit...

Please do so. Go away.

Hahaha...are you slow? So Baseball America doesn't know anything about this guy. They just wrote the article off lies and rumors?It was based off of one scout's opinion. They never said how many times this scout even saw him play. Maybe it was just a workout. Maybe he said he couldn't play defense anymore because of his size.

Nobody knew anything about Contreras, that's why the Yankees and Red Sox got into a huge bidding war over him.And it was stupid, was it not? Contreras had mechanical issues, which obviously, no one knew about, or else they would not have thrown that much money at him.

Kenny just felt like throwing millions at Alexei even though he was a complete unknown and noone knew anyone about him cause he was from Cuba.Kenny took a risk, and you know it. We did not hear good things about Alexei last year around this time. Although, it was a much smaller risk than a Contreras because he didn't have give him a load of money.

If there was a ton of information on Alexei, don't you think he would have gotten a bigger deal?

Your making yourself look really stupid right now.This coming from the guy who can't differentiate between there, their, they're as well as your and you're. I'm not real big on the whole grammar thing, but your posts are increasingly more difficult to read.

Sweet ****ing christ...I can't take it anymore. Where do you people come from?

Again, if you can't take it anymore, then go away. You're so much smarter than everyone here anyway.

Rockabilly
11-10-2008, 10:18 AM
Yeah cause guys that are home run champs in Cuba have no power.



Sweet ****ing christ...I can't take it anymore. Where do you people come from?



Way to use a HOF player to make your point...any other extreme cases you wanna use?


Ivan wasn't a HOF at age 19.. how the hell do you know that Viciedo won't be one when his career ends..

gr8mexico
11-10-2008, 10:20 AM
I quit...



Hahaha...are you slow? So Baseball America doesn't know anything about this guy. They just wrote the article off lies and rumors?

Nobody knew anything about Contreras, that's why the Yankees and Red Sox got into a huge bidding war over him. Kenny just felt like throwing millions at Alexei even though he was a complete unknown and noone knew anyone about him cause he was from Cuba.

Your making yourself look really stupid right now.
The reason there was a huge bidding war for Contreras was because of the 2 games he pitched between Cuba Vs Orioles. Cuban Pitcher Jose Contreras, the most sparkling of several Cubans who showed they could compete at a major league level, allowed two hits in eight shutout innings versus a really good Orioles team. If Alexei would of been in a game like that and produced huge against major league pitching Then Alxei would of had a huge pay day

Craig Grebeck
11-10-2008, 10:22 AM
I don't really want to associate my argument with Hellview's, but there's no way on earth Viciedo is the best talent to ever come out of Cuba. I don't know anyone that has said this. Sure, when he was young he was compared to Omar Linares, but some people don't even think he's in the upper echelon of third baseman in Cuba today.

hellview
11-10-2008, 10:26 AM
And it was stupid, was it not? Contreras had mechanical issues, which obviously, no one knew about, or else they would not have thrown that much money at him.

Do you really think teams just spend millions of dollars on player without scouting the **** outta them. The scout 24 round picks that sign for 10k, do you really believe the Sox and Yankees where just hoping to sign Jose and prey he panned out?

Kenny took a risk, and you know it. We did not hear good things about Alexei last year around this time. Although, it was a much smaller risk than a Contreras because he didn't have give him a load of money.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3165277

Yep, no one was on Alexei, Kenny just took a risk that no other team would was willing to do. Oh wait 10 teams were in on Alexi, you telling me 10 MLB teams were just looking hoping Alexei work out even though they supposedly kneww nothing about him.


If there was a ton of information on Alexei, don't you think he would have gotten a bigger deal?

He signed for over 5 million dollars, it's not like he's making the league minimum or signed for pennies.


This coming from the guy who can't differentiate between there, their, they're as well as your and you're. I'm not real big on the whole grammar thing, but your posts are increasingly more difficult to read.


Way to attack my grammar...ouch my pride.

hellview
11-10-2008, 10:28 AM
The reason there was a huge bidding war for Contreras was because of the 2 games he pitched between Cuba Vs Orioles. Cuban Pitcher Jose Contreras, the most sparkling of several Cubans who showed they could compete at a major league level, allowed two hits in eight shutout innings versus a really good Orioles team. If Alexei would of been in a game like that and produced huge against major league pitching Then Alxei would of had a huge pay day

I'm pretty god damn sure that the Yankees and Red Sox took more then a two game sampling before bidding like crazy to sign Jose.

gr8mexico
11-10-2008, 10:30 AM
I don't really want to associate my argument with Hellview's, but there's no way on earth Viciedo is the best talent to ever come out of Cuba. I don't know anyone that has said this. Sure, when he was young he was compared to Omar Linares, but some people don't even think he's in the upper echelon of third baseman in Cuba today.
Im not sure who has said this but many players that escape Cuba get bashed by the Cuban goverment. When Livan Hernandez escaped Cuba Orlando Hernandez was banned from Cuban baseball because it was thought that he helped Livan escape. At that time Orlando was the best pitcher in Cuba. The Cuban goverment bashed Orlando and told everybody that he was done . The only baseball Orlando could play was pickup games.

oeo
11-10-2008, 10:30 AM
Do you really think teams just spend millions of dollars on player without scouting the **** outta them. The scout 24 round picks that sign for 10k, do you really believe the Sox and Yankees where just hoping to sign Jose and prey he panned out?

He was obviously not 'scouted the **** out of', or the mechanical issues would have been fixed long before he came here. Nor would there have been a bidding war.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3165277

Yep, no one was on Alexei, Kenny just took a risk that no other team would was willing to do. Oh wait 10 teams were in on Alexi, you telling me 10 MLB teams were just looking hoping Alexei work out even though they supposedly kneww nothing about him.It says they each had a session with him. The Sox were the only team that came away impressed, which is why we got him for so cheap.

He signed for over 5 million dollars, it's not like he's making the league minimum or signed for pennies.Yeah, over four years, which is not a big risk at all.

Way to attack my grammar...ouch my pride.You have pride? News to me.

hellview
11-10-2008, 10:31 AM
Ivan wasn't a HOF at age 19.. how the hell do you know that Viciedo won't be one when his career ends..

And Pudge responded by posting terrible seasons til he was 22 years old.

Craig Grebeck
11-10-2008, 10:32 AM
Im not sure who has said this but many players that escape Cuba get bashed by the Cuban goverment. When Livan Hernandez escaped Cuba Orlando Hernandez was banned from Cuban baseball because it was thought that he helped Livan escape. At that time Orlando was the best pitcher in Cuba. The Cuban goverment bashed Orlando and told everybody that he was done . The only baseball Orlando could play was pickup games.
The person who said this is a Rangers broadcaster. He travels to Cuba often, but has no association with the Cuban government.

hellview
11-10-2008, 10:34 AM
It says they each had a session with him. The Sox were the only team that came away impressed, which is why we got him for so cheap.

Your telling me that the Sox who won't spend a god damn penny in the draft or international signing just took 5 million dollars and gave it to a complete unknown.

Do you really believe that?

gr8mexico
11-10-2008, 10:35 AM
The person who said this is a Rangers broadcaster. He travels to Cuba often, but has no association with the Cuban government.
Maybe the other team that might consider making an offer for Dayan is the Rangers. It would scare other teams away

hellview
11-10-2008, 10:37 AM
Maybe the other team that might consider making an offer for Dayan is the Rangers. It would scare other teams away

Hahahahaha...your trying so hard it's the cutest little thing.

Craig Grebeck
11-10-2008, 10:37 AM
Maybe the other team that might consider making an offer for Dayan is the Rangers. It would scare other teams away
Do you really think other teams are swayed by what the broadcaster says? Please, just come to grips with the fact that this kid is no doubt talented, but will not start on any team next season.

Rockabilly
11-10-2008, 10:39 AM
And Pudge responded by posting terrible seasons til he was 22 years old.


He won a gold glove in first full 9 seasons.. I don't think that makes it a terrible season like you have..

hellview
11-10-2008, 10:43 AM
He won a gold glove in first full 9 seasons.. I don't think that makes it a terrible season like you have..

WOW!!!!...he won a gold glove so that completly excuses the fact that he hit .265/.297/.375 .672 OPS over his first 3 seasons before he broke out in 1994.

Craig Grebeck
11-10-2008, 10:55 AM
Well, that wasn't surprising.

guillen4life13
11-10-2008, 12:16 PM
I think it's hilarious how Grebeck and hellview act like they know everything about this kid and state as a "fact" that he won't play major league level ball in 2009. Lots of people said that Alexei would spend most, if not all of 2008 at AA. I know Viciedo is 19 and Ramirez is 26, but most of us were wrong about Ramirez. You don't know anything more than we do so stop acting like you're so damn special and no one else knows anything.

Here is the fact: not one of us knows ANYTHING about this kid other than the following: he's allegedly 19 years old, and there are varying descriptions of his abilities, ranging from him being the best player Cuba has ever produced to being an unmotivated, lazy player with a possible weight issue. None of us have seen him play and he hasn't played in any major international competitions, so he hasn't had a chance to play against major league competition as Contreras did, and there's limited information available regarding Cuban players that we can access. I believe (notice the word isn't "know") these to be the reasons why there isn't a major bidding war going on.

My inclination is that he won't play in the majors next season, but based on the optimistic descriptions, it sure seems to be a possibility. It is rare for a player to break into the league at that age and be successful, but from many accounts, Viciedo is a rare type of player. Everything I've heard about this kid screams of a Miguel Cabrera type player, including the weight issues. Not much of a fielder but a top-tier bat. Having Alexei/Jose around will definitely help his development, as would Ozzie who himself came into the league as a very young talent who didn't know the language or culture.
I stress that I am not an authority on this but I have been aware of the kid since he defected (I believe there was actually a thread on it) and in that article, the description of him was of him being an incredible player who could play multiple positions, has a cannon of an arm, and has a monster bat. I remember even then thinking that it would be nice if the Sox could make a play for him.

RockJock07
11-10-2008, 01:22 PM
I think it's hilarious how Grebeck and hellview act like they know everything about this kid and state as a "fact" that he won't play major league level ball in 2009. Lots of people said that Alexei would spend most, if not all of 2008 at AA. I know Viciedo is 19 and Ramirez is 26, but most of us were wrong about Ramirez. You don't know anything more than we do so stop acting like you're so damn special and no one else knows anything.

Here is the fact: not one of us knows ANYTHING about this kid other than the following: he's allegedly 19 years old, and there are varying descriptions of his abilities, ranging from him being the best player Cuba has ever produced to being an unmotivated, lazy player with a possible weight issue. None of us have seen him play and he hasn't played in any major international competitions, so he hasn't had a chance to play against major league competition as Contreras did, and there's limited information available regarding Cuban players that we can access. I believe (notice the word isn't "know") these to be the reasons why there isn't a major bidding war going on.

My inclination is that he won't play in the majors next season, but based on the optimistic descriptions, it sure seems to be a possibility. It is rare for a player to break into the league at that age and be successful, but from many accounts, Viciedo is a rare type of player. Everything I've heard about this kid screams of a Miguel Cabrera type player, including the weight issues. Not much of a fielder but a top-tier bat. Having Alexei/Jose around will definitely help his development, as would Ozzie who himself came into the league as a very young talent who didn't know the language or culture.
I stress that I am not an authority on this but I have been aware of the kid since he defected (I believe there was actually a thread on it) and in that article, the description of him was of him being an incredible player who could play multiple positions, has a cannon of an arm, and has a monster bat. I remember even then thinking that it would be nice if the Sox could make a play for him.

Well said my friend

Craig Grebeck
11-10-2008, 01:25 PM
I think it's hilarious how Grebeck and hellview act like they know everything about this kid and state as a "fact" that he won't play major league level ball in 2009. Lots of people said that Alexei would spend most, if not all of 2008 at AA. I know Viciedo is 19 and Ramirez is 26, but most of us were wrong about Ramirez. You don't know anything more than we do so stop acting like you're so damn special and no one else knows anything.

Here is the fact: not one of us knows ANYTHING about this kid other than the following: he's allegedly 19 years old, and there are varying descriptions of his abilities, ranging from him being the best player Cuba has ever produced to being an unmotivated, lazy player with a possible weight issue. None of us have seen him play and he hasn't played in any major international competitions, so he hasn't had a chance to play against major league competition as Contreras did, and there's limited information available regarding Cuban players that we can access. I believe (notice the word isn't "know") these to be the reasons why there isn't a major bidding war going on.

My inclination is that he won't play in the majors next season, but based on the optimistic descriptions, it sure seems to be a possibility. It is rare for a player to break into the league at that age and be successful, but from many accounts, Viciedo is a rare type of player. Everything I've heard about this kid screams of a Miguel Cabrera type player, including the weight issues. Not much of a fielder but a top-tier bat. Having Alexei/Jose around will definitely help his development, as would Ozzie who himself came into the league as a very young talent who didn't know the language or culture.
I stress that I am not an authority on this but I have been aware of the kid since he defected (I believe there was actually a thread on it) and in that article, the description of him was of him being an incredible player who could play multiple positions, has a cannon of an arm, and has a monster bat. I remember even then thinking that it would be nice if the Sox could make a play for him.
Find me one credible person who says he's the best player to ever come out of Cuba. One.

khan
11-10-2008, 01:29 PM
Find me one credible person who says he's the best player to ever come out of Cuba. One.

I'll say that he's the best player to ever come out of Cuba!


Is that good enough for you? :D:

soxinem1
11-10-2008, 02:55 PM
Seeing the big bucks that have been thrown to Japanese players, several of whom like Igawa with NYY have been wash-outs, I fail to see why this is not a good thing.

Gazzilions have been spent on these players with limited insight (like playing on foreign soil) to how they would perform here, as well.

KW has had a knack of finding players from other organizations (I guess other leagues would fit here too) and being weak with drafts, so why not try this?

Being that he is only 19, I could see the White Sox being favored to land him, at a far more favorable price than most high-pick #1 choices of comperable talent.

They have a good history with Cuban players, from Minnie to Alexei, so they should feel at home.

Thome25
11-10-2008, 03:18 PM
I've been a member for a while now and I usually visit every day but, did I miss something? When did Grebeck and Hellview get so hostile toward everything and everyone?:scratch:

btrain929
11-10-2008, 03:25 PM
I've been a member for a while now and I usually visit everyday but, did I miss something? When did Grebeck and Hellview get so hostile toward everything and everyone?:scratch:

I read Grebeck's posts and responses everyday, and ask myself the same question. My only answer is that he is the active protege' of Daver.

Craig Grebeck
11-10-2008, 03:29 PM
I read Grebeck's posts and responses everyday, and ask myself the same question. My only answer is that he is the active protege' of Daver.
Considering Daver and I are on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to talent evaluation, I haven't got a clue what you mean.

As for my hostility, I'm merely annoyed by the windsock nature of our fanbase when it comes to player evaluation. No one has seen this kid play, but people our cherry-picking evaluations by his agent and countrymen to assume that he can play 3B at the start of next season. Josh Fields is a much safer bet than this kid.

Also, the mistreatment of guys like Poreda. Everyone assumes he is a Matt Thornton clone, and that he has terrible mechanics. I disagree with both assessments (which is something I know Daver and I disagree on).

Nellie_Fox
11-10-2008, 04:05 PM
Josh Fields is a much safer bet than this kid.Yeah, we'd know what we'd be getting. Terrible defense and 200 strikeouts.

btrain929
11-10-2008, 05:06 PM
Considering Daver and I are on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to talent evaluation, I haven't got a clue what you mean.

I'm not talking about your views on "talent evaluation." I'm talking about when anytime you guys disagree with a statement from a poster. Instead of asking for clarification on his/her views and discussing it like fans of the same team (Lip comes to mind as someone who goes about this the right way), you both come with the "what the **** are you talking about/who the **** are you" attitude. The act of quick-witted snappy remarks that are pretty much indirect personal attacks on the posters (basically calling them idiots) is what I'm referring to; they are annoying and unproductive.

whitesox901
11-10-2008, 05:09 PM
I don't know anything about him, If he's good sign him, if he needs a few years in the minors, we have Fields to play untill he's ready. If he's MLB ready, put him at third.

WhiteSox5187
11-10-2008, 05:36 PM
Yeah, we'd know what we'd be getting. Terrible defense and 200 strikeouts.
But, but, but...he hits home runs! His OPS!


Once Alexei came over there was a poster here named Pinar del Rio who I got the impression was actually from Cuba, I wonder if he has any word on this kid?

btrain929
11-10-2008, 05:44 PM
But, but, but...he hits home runs! His OPS!


Once Alexei came over there was a poster here named Pinar del Rio who I got the impression was actually from Cuba, I wonder if he has any word on this kid?

Good call, I remember him.

cub killer
11-10-2008, 07:18 PM
I have a good feeling about this kid if we can get him. I have 100% faith in Kenny. Jose, Alexei and Dayan can have like an older, middle, youngest brother type of thing going in the clubhouse. Team chemistry is very important, as we all learned in 2005. If Kenny gets him and he fails, I won't complain one bit, at least he tried.

guillen4life13
11-10-2008, 07:28 PM
Find me one credible person who says he's the best player to ever come out of Cuba. One.

Well, considering the "Babe Ruth of Cuba" and Omar Linares comparisons--though they're both slightly outdated, have been tossed around. I remember reading this type of stuff in a more present tense when he initially defected. It's been a while since I read that article so I don't remember the exact source.

And I agree with btrain's comments.

btrain929
11-10-2008, 07:29 PM
I have a good feeling about this kid if we can get him. I have 100% faith in Kenny. Jose, Alexei and Dayan can have like an older, middle, youngest brother type of thing going in the clubhouse. Team chemistry is very important, as we all learned in 2005. If Kenny gets him and he fails, I won't complain one bit, at least he tried.

Until Contreras leaves after the '09 season...

Maybe he'll feel bad for making 10 mil in 2009 for only pitching 1 or 2 months that he'll take a 1 yr deal in 2010 for 2 million or so. But that would only make sense if he proves at the end of 2009 that he's healthy.

If none of the above appears evident, Contreras is gone after 2009.

NLaloosh
11-11-2008, 12:49 PM
I definitely hope the Sox sign him to a long term contract.

Then, start him in the minors. He's only 19 and he apparently needs to get into shape. But, everyone says that he's very talented and very young. It would be worth the risk.

But, the Sox still need a 3B for 2009.

Sockinchisox
11-11-2008, 07:55 PM
Merkin says if signed Viciedo would compete with Fields for the starting 3B job.

Viciedo is working out for teams this Thursday and they have several offers from teams already.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081111&content_id=3674944&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

getonbckthr
11-11-2008, 08:10 PM
My concern as far as the Sox signing him is that teams saw how successful Alexei was last year and I'm worried about a team making a rediculous offer thus eliminating us from the running.

btrain929
11-11-2008, 08:29 PM
My concern as far as the Sox signing him is that teams saw how successful Alexei was last year and I'm worried about a team making a rediculous offer thus eliminating us from the running.

This is just dumb speculation from me, but....

I was just thinking about that. I wouldn't be surprised if KW would almost want his agent to give us a discount for Dayan because of the opportunity we gave Alexei and how it worked out and use the whole "he'll be more comfortable here with Jose and Alexei." Now that Alexei is playing for only 1.2 mil/year, I'm sure the agent will try is best to make sure he cashes in this time around.

oeo
11-11-2008, 08:33 PM
This is just dumb speculation from me, but....

I was just thinking about that. I wouldn't be surprised if KW would almost want his agent to give us a discount for Dayan because of the opportunity we gave Alexei and how it worked out and use the whole "he'll be more comfortable here with Jose and Alexei." Now that Alexei is playing for only 1.2 mil/year, I'm sure the agent will try is best to make sure he cashes in this time around.

Well, it's entirely up to Dayan...what's his agent going to do, tell the kid, you have to take a discount? I think if Kenny and Co. feel that highly of the kid, they'll be a little more ambitious than what we would all expect. They did offer the largest amount of money to Fukudome, so they are changing a bit.

Rdy2PlayBall
11-11-2008, 08:39 PM
Why not? It's not like we have to trade anyone for him.... and Crede, Griffey, Uribe, and Cabrera are a lot of shoes to fill, I don't see how the Sox could possibly find a way not be able to afford him. All the other players the Sox are looking to get seem to be by trade of some sort, so throw around a little money if this guy ACTUALLY is supposed to be good. Usually they are when there is that much hype over a guy... and he's 19!!! That's a long time to get even better!

Sockinchisox
11-11-2008, 11:09 PM
Also of note in that article is that Torres wants to get Viciedo signed before next Monday so this should all move very very quickly.

sox1970
11-11-2008, 11:11 PM
Also of note in that article is that Torres wants to get Viciedo signed before next Monday so this should all move very very quickly.

That's a good thing either way, and on many levels.

PalehosePlanet
11-11-2008, 11:20 PM
Until Contreras leaves after the '09 season...

Maybe he'll feel bad for making 10 mil in 2009 for only pitching 1 or 2 months that he'll take a 1 yr deal in 2010 for 2 million or so. But that would only make sense if he proves at the end of 2009 that he's healthy.

If none of the above appears evident, Contreras is gone after 2009.

I was thinking the same thing about Jose. If he's healthy and pitches well out of the pen maybe he'll stay w/us and pitch out of the pen for a couple of more years. I think at this stage of his career it would be a wise move for him; it could definitely extend his career. Also if just went all out for an inning without having to pace humself there is the potential for success as a setup man.

As far as Viciedo goes, judging by the Alexei and Kendry Morales deals, I'm guessing 5 years at 6-8 million total gets the deal done.

eaganmafia
11-12-2008, 11:36 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AnrOD1X1Rq5AfRSomZ9mV.0RvLYF?slug=jp-viciedo111208&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

JermaineDye05
11-13-2008, 12:07 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AnrOD1X1Rq5AfRSomZ9mV.0RvLYF?slug=jp-viciedo111208&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Interesting. I wonder if he's working out at the Yankees and White Sox because he has interest at playing there or if he plans on working at every complex. I just wonder what the Yankees plan to do with A-Rod/Jeter if they sign Viciedo and plan to start him at 3rd next year. Do they move A-Rod to second? Cause we know Jeter won't move his ass.

btrain929
11-13-2008, 12:08 AM
Interesting. I wonder if he's working out at the Yankees and White Sox because he has interest at playing there or if he plans on working at every complex. I just wonder what the Yankees plan to do with A-Rod/Jeter if they sign Viciedo and plan to start him at 3rd next year. Do they move A-Rod to second? Cause we know Jeter won't move his ass.

I don't think it has any direct correlation with the Yanks being the front-runners for him or anything. Those might have just been the most convenient locations for him to workout at.

CWSpalehoseCWS
11-13-2008, 01:27 AM
I hope the Sox sign this guy if the price is reasonable. It seems like he has the potential, and he'd be a good fit with Ramirez on the team (similar to the way Takatsu and Iguchi were). If he does live up to the hype, he could be a great player. And if he is overweight it's not hard to shed a few pounds when you 19. Maybe Alexei can get some pointers on how to put a few on, lol.

eaganmafia
11-13-2008, 08:11 AM
Interesting. I wonder if he's working out at the Yankees and White Sox because he has interest at playing there or if he plans on working at every complex. I just wonder what the Yankees plan to do with A-Rod/Jeter if they sign Viciedo and plan to start him at 3rd next year. Do they move A-Rod to second? Cause we know Jeter won't move his ass.

I'm sure they'll send him to the minors for a couple years and worry about it when it in a few years.

cws05champ
11-13-2008, 08:46 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AnrOD1X1Rq5AfRSomZ9mV.0RvLYF?slug=jp-viciedo111208&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

The most interesting thing in the article was that his agent said it wasn't just about the most money, but the best opportunity. He wants to play 3B, and some of the other clubs want him for RF instead.

Again, I think we are a perfect fit for this kid. Hopefully we get it done.

eaganmafia
11-13-2008, 09:00 AM
The most interesting thing in the article was that his agent said it wasn't just about the most money, but the best opportunity. He wants to play 3B, and some of the other clubs want him for RF instead.

Again, I think we are a perfect fit for this kid. Hopefully we get it done.

Yeah it's never about the money, no agent or player has ever said that before.

cws05champ
11-13-2008, 09:12 AM
Yeah it's never about the money, no agent or player has ever said that before.
For the most part your right...but if it was ALWAYS about the $$ Fukudome would have been playing on the South side this year.

eaganmafia
11-13-2008, 09:16 AM
For the most part your right...but if it was ALWAYS about the $$ Fukudome would have been playing on the South side this year.

Or he realized he's get more attention and exposure playing on the North Side?

guillen4life13
11-13-2008, 11:02 AM
Yeah it's never about the money, no agent or player has ever said that before.

If Jaime Torres knows what's good for him, he won't put Dayan in a situation set to fail. The Yankees would seem to be such a situation. I don't think coming in as a starting RF in New York as a 19 year old would be the ideal situation, regardless of the money. That could have some permanent effects on the kid's confidence. Torres would be wise to show that he's looking out for the best interests of his clients--and that does not necessarily have to revolve around money alone.

eaganmafia
11-13-2008, 11:21 AM
If Jaime Torres knows what's good for him, he won't put Dayan in a situation set to fail. The Yankees would seem to be such a situation. I don't think coming in as a starting RF in New York as a 19 year old would be the ideal situation, regardless of the money. That could have some permanent effects on the kid's confidence. Torres would be wise to show that he's looking out for the best interests of his clients--and that does not necessarily have to revolve around money alone.

First off he's not gonna be playing RF or 3B for the Yankees next season, they'll start him in the minors as any smart franchise would do. Second what the hell did he defect, hire an agent and work out for every team in the majors for...to get paid.

He could represent himself and sign a deal that's best for him. Torres's job is to get Viciedo paid and that's what he's gonna do. Doesn't matter if it's the White Sox, Yankees, Giants or whoever.

KenBerryGrab
11-13-2008, 11:40 AM
Or he realized he's get more attention and exposure playing on the North Side?

Actually, no. He didn't want to play center field. Which is funny, because Piniella says he's moving to center next season.

jcw218
11-13-2008, 01:18 PM
Also part of the reason that Fukudome choose the Cubs is that he wanted to be the first Japanese player to play for a particular franchise.

guillensdisciple
11-13-2008, 06:33 PM
Viciedo won't be in the Sox organization, I think the addition of Betemit mutes him and Kenny made it clear that he wants Fields starting.

Well, as much as I hate this, maybe Fields will prove to be a hell of a hitter.

JermaineDye05
11-13-2008, 06:35 PM
Viciedo won't be in the Sox organization, I think the addition of Betemit mutes him and Kenny made it clear that he wants Fields starting.

Well, as much as I hate this, maybe Fields will prove to be a hell of a hitter.

Wilson Betemit is not a starter.

2906
11-13-2008, 06:36 PM
Viciedo won't be in the Sox organization, I think the addition of Betemit mutes him and Kenny made it clear that he wants Fields starting.

Well, as much as I hate this, maybe Fields will prove to be a hell of a hitter.

IMO one has nothing to do with the other. Betemit is a utility guy and Viciedo could be a long term guy. The agent has said the Sox have significant interest, bringing Betemit in won't change that, nor will having Fields here.

DumpJerry
11-13-2008, 06:46 PM
He could represent himself and sign a deal that's best for him. Torres's job is to get Viciedo paid and that's what he's gonna do. Doesn't matter if it's the White Sox, Yankees, Giants or whoever.
Of course he can represent himself. All 19 year olds, especially ones who grew up in a country with a completely different legal system than ours, knows the complexities of the MLB Collective Bargaining Agreement. The only thing that needs to be negotiated is how many zeros in the paycheck, right?

Daver
11-13-2008, 06:48 PM
Viciedo won't be in the Sox organization, I think the addition of Betemit mutes him and Kenny made it clear that he wants Fields starting.

Well, as much as I hate this, maybe Fields will prove to be a hell of a hitter.

When did he make this clear?

Rockabilly
11-14-2008, 11:35 AM
has anyone heard how his workouts went on wed/thursday...

oeo
11-14-2008, 12:35 PM
When did he make this clear?

In his conference call yesterday, he basically said it was Fields' job to lose.

PalehosePlanet
11-14-2008, 12:45 PM
In his conference call yesterday, he basically said it was Fields' job to lose.

That still doesn't mean we won't sign Viciedo.

All KW's saying is: if the season started tomorrow, and Fields is still with the team, he'll give him first crack at the job. Which is to be expected.

There is certainly nothing direct or even indirect in his statements reagrding the signing of Viciedo.

Law11
11-14-2008, 01:24 PM
That still doesn't mean we won't sign Viciedo.

All KW's saying is: if the season started tomorrow, and Fields is still with the team, he'll give him first crack at the job. Which is to be expected.

There is certainly nothing direct or even indirect in his statements reagrding the signing of Viciedo.

Exactly. remember Alexi didnt play much to start the season either..

champagne030
11-14-2008, 01:59 PM
In his conference call yesterday, he basically said it was Fields' job to lose.

I suspect a platoon of Fields and Betemit if we don't upgrade the position. Betemit is okay vs. RH's but can't hit LH's and Josh is the opposite.

That said, I hope we upgrade the position.

SoxFan88
11-14-2008, 03:18 PM
any way to get a weight clause in the contract?

oeo
11-14-2008, 03:32 PM
That still doesn't mean we won't sign Viciedo.

Did I say that? We have no idea what level of play the guy is at. Maybe he can play next year, maybe not for a couple of years.

All KW's saying is: if the season started tomorrow, and Fields is still with the team, he'll give him first crack at the job. Which is to be expected.

Well, it's a little more than that. KW likes Fields and thinks he would have helped immensely last year if he wasn't hurt.

There is certainly nothing direct or even indirect in his statements reagrding the signing of Viciedo.

Again, never said that, just answered Daver's question.

PalehosePlanet
11-14-2008, 08:44 PM
Did I say that? We have no idea what level of play the guy is at. Maybe he can play next year, maybe not for a couple of years.



Well, it's a little more than that. KW likes Fields and thinks he would have helped immensely last year if he wasn't hurt.



Again, never said that, just answered Daver's question.

Sorry if I misunderstood; just sounded like you were convinced we weren't signing Viciedo based on KW's comments.

btrain929
11-17-2008, 08:48 AM
His agent said he'd like to have things situated by Monday (today). Wonder if we'll hear any reports today/tomorrow of teams that are offering him serious contract offers or teams that appear to be the "final 2 or final 3" ala the Peavy sweepstakes.

103 screwball
11-17-2008, 09:08 AM
I have no inside info, but even if the Sox do have a deal in place, they are too good at PR to announce it the day after a Bears game. They like to maximize the air time on the sports radio and the newspaper column space.

btrain929
11-17-2008, 09:43 AM
I have no inside info, but even if the Sox do have a deal in place, they are too good at PR to announce it the day after a Bears game. They like to maximize the air time on the sports radio and the newspaper column space.

Well how do you explain the Swisher trade last week being made official on the same day as a Cubs trade, the announcement that Wood wouldn't be back, as well as Tommy Harris snappin' on the media?

DumpJerry
11-17-2008, 09:51 AM
I have no inside info, but even if the Sox do have a deal in place, they are too good at PR to announce it the day after a Bears game. They like to maximize the air time on the sports radio and the newspaper column space.
Wednesday.

esbrechtel
11-17-2008, 10:19 AM
Well how do you explain the Swisher trade last week being made official on the same day as a Cubs trade, the announcement that Wood wouldn't be back, as well as Tommy Harris snappin' on the media?

Maybe Kenny was hiding it because he knew Swish was a fan favorite...

103 screwball
11-17-2008, 10:30 AM
Maybe he wanted to pull the trigger on the Swisher trade before the Yankees changed their mind.

...
11-17-2008, 10:52 AM
Well how do you explain the Swisher trade last week being made official on the same day as a Cubs trade, the announcement that Wood wouldn't be back, as well as Tommy Harris snappin' on the media?

Apples and oranges.

KyWhiSoxFan
11-17-2008, 11:38 AM
Maybe Kenny was hiding it because he knew Swish was a fan favorite...

My guess is that if KW was indeed trying to hide it, it ws because the trade to get Swisher was a failure. But I agree that you make the deal if the deal is to be made; you don't wait because you're worried the announcement bumps up against other sports news. Any day you can trade Swisher is the right day.

khan
11-20-2008, 01:13 PM
Wednesday.

[Judge Schmales] WELL??? We're WAITing...[/Judge Schmales]

Madscout
11-20-2008, 01:34 PM
[Judge Schmales] WELL??? We're WAITing...[/Judge Schmales]
"Oh Billy, Billy, Billy...don't let me down Billy." ...

rustysurf83
11-20-2008, 03:27 PM
Seriously though,
Where the **** is the news on this kid? There is absolutely nothing out there about his workouts or interested teams. I figure if there was exceptional interest the rumor mill would be buzzing...OR if the workouts were trash and perception of the kid is fading I think that would be disseminated as well. Anyone have any inside info?

esbrechtel
11-20-2008, 03:30 PM
I was excited when I saw this got bumped back up hoping it said there was some more news....instead just people like me looking for news, where is Otis? :redneck

Gammons Peter
11-20-2008, 04:48 PM
Just got back from vacationing in Cuba and I saw Kenny Williams at Havana International Airport, Terminal 5, talking loudly on his cell.......

oeo
11-20-2008, 04:53 PM
Just got back from vacationing in Cuba and I saw Kenny Williams at Havana International Airport, Terminal 5, talking loudly on his cell.......

So...is it done?

How is Cuba these days?

DSpivack
11-20-2008, 05:02 PM
Just got back from vacationing in Cuba and I saw Kenny Williams at Havana International Airport, Terminal 5, talking loudly on his cell.......

:rolling:

...
11-20-2008, 06:04 PM
Signed!

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/11/sox-to-sign-19.html

oeo
11-20-2008, 06:13 PM
Signed!

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/11/sox-to-sign-19.html

Good deal, as long as that $11 million is over 4+ years.

DumpJerry
11-20-2008, 06:26 PM
Take discussion here (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=107756) now that he is signed.