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View Full Version : Brian Roberts (again)


Lip Man 1
11-06-2008, 12:03 PM
Here's the latest:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/1263950,CST-SPT-deluca06.article

Lip

hellview
11-06-2008, 12:06 PM
Not gonna happen...

soxfan43
11-06-2008, 12:19 PM
Not gonna happen...

Probably not, but he's the best fit.

hi im skot
11-06-2008, 12:29 PM
I could live with this. :cool:

LoveYourSuit
11-06-2008, 12:37 PM
Off all the names mentioned, he is the one guy which is a 100% fit on what we need and fills the biggest holes we have .... lead off and 2nd base.


Something like this would excite me very much.

hellview
11-06-2008, 12:44 PM
Probably not, but he's the best fit.

I agree, but I see 0% chance he's on the Sox in 2009.

WhiteSox5187
11-06-2008, 01:20 PM
I'd love to have him but I don't see how we can get him. Our best chance I think was trading Fields for him in March of last year.

hi im skot
11-06-2008, 01:21 PM
Maybe this is one of the "shocking" deals that Stone mentioned last week.

:shrug:

Zisk77
11-06-2008, 01:26 PM
I'm not saying that the o's are going to give him away, but realize he is in his walk year and therefore his value is less than it was last year as any trade for him may become a rental. I think the sox could get him but would have to be willing to part with something like Poreda, Broadway, Getz, and Fields or maybe a little less if they agree to take on Mora's salary as well. The problem is if there are many suitors the O's will be able to up the ante.

Last year it would probably have to Alexie and Danks and a prospect to get Roberts.

hi im skot
11-06-2008, 01:44 PM
Last year it would probably have to Alexie and Danks and a prospect to get Roberts.

Ramirez and Danks were both huge question marks last year. I imagine a package like that would probably have to include Fields as well, at the very least.

WhiteSox5187
11-06-2008, 01:44 PM
I'm not saying that the o's are going to give him away, but realize he is in his walk year and therefore his value is less than it was last year as any trade for him may become a rental. I think the sox could get him but would have to be willing to part with something like Poreda, Broadway, Getz, and Fields or maybe a little less if they agree to take on Mora's salary as well. The problem is if there are many suitors the O's will be able to up the ante.

Last year it would probably have to Alexie and Danks and a prospect to get Roberts.
I wouldn't be willing to give away all four of those guys and am just hesistant in general to trade Poreda. But I would probably trade Broadway, Getz and Fields for Roberts, but I dont think the O's would.

mrfourni
11-06-2008, 01:57 PM
I thought he was already on the Cubs

Bill Naharodny
11-06-2008, 02:10 PM
I thought he was already on the Cubs

As soon as the Cubs agree to part with Ronny Cedeno.

cws05champ
11-06-2008, 02:55 PM
I'm not saying that the o's are going to give him away, but realize he is in his walk year and therefore his value is less than it was last year as any trade for him may become a rental. I think the sox could get him but would have to be willing to part with something like Poreda, Broadway, Getz, and Fields or maybe a little less if they agree to take on Mora's salary as well. The problem is if there are many suitors the O's will be able to up the ante.

Last year it would probably have to Alexie and Danks and a prospect to get Roberts.
I just don't see Roberts bringing that big of a haul anymore. If he was traded last year with two years remaining on his contract, that's one thing. But he is in his walk year, one year rental. I can see Fields, Shelby, Broadway and maybe a lower level prospect going in a deal for Roberts but not much more than that. Giving up Fields, Getz, Poreda would be too much for a one year rental...even if we did get draft picks when he left.

btrain929
11-06-2008, 03:04 PM
I'd love to have him but I don't see how we can get him. Our best chance I think was trading Fields for him in March of last year.

1) If the Cubs actually trade for Peavy, then I'll believe that anything is possible.
2) Well in March of last year, everybody thought Fields was going to be our starting 3B, with Crede being traded.

munchman33
11-06-2008, 03:27 PM
Not gonna happen...

You're right, Kenny never gets his guy.

turners56
11-06-2008, 04:06 PM
If we had a farm system, it would be possible. Too bad we don't.

PalehosePlanet
11-06-2008, 04:22 PM
As others have stated there is only one year left on his deal, therefore, the Orioles blew their chance at a great return when they (actually the owner) chose to keep him last winter. If last year's Miguel Tejada deal is any indictation, it would seem that McPhail is looking at quantity more so than quality (meaning red-chip prospects, rather than blue chip prospects, are okay so long as there are more of them.)However, I'd imagine he'd want at least one player in the deal w/MLB experience.

hellview
11-06-2008, 04:31 PM
As others have stated there is only one year left on his deal, therefore, the Orioles blew their chance at a great return when they (actually the owner) chose to keep him last winter. If last year's Miguel Tejada deal is any indictation, it would seem that McPhail is looking at quantity more so than quality (meaning red-chip prospects, rather than blue chip prospects, are okay so long as there are more of them.)However, I'd imagine he'd want at least one player in the deal w/MLB experience.

Do you really think the O's could have gotten top prospects for Miggy who's expensive and declineing.

PalehosePlanet
11-06-2008, 04:42 PM
Do you really think the O's could have gotten top prospects for Miggy who's expensive and declineing.

He is/was still a good (but no longer great) performer and productive for the position he plays. I believe McPhail could have gotten one top prospect and one mid-level prospect for him, rather than accepting 5 mid-level types.

JohnTucker0814
11-06-2008, 04:59 PM
So what are the chances of getting both Figgins and Roberts? And yes, I'm serious. The stars have to align...

As much as I love Konerko, he is expendable and Los Angeles would probably be 1 of the few teams he'd waive his no-trade to.

Konerko - Figgins

Like people have said Roberts is in his walk year, maybe the White Sox ask to negotiate a contract with him before they trade for him and give Konerko's money to Roberts.

Poreda, Fields & Unknown - Roberts

Line-up would be the following:

1. Roberts - 2b
2. Figgins - 3b
3. Quentin - LF
4. Thome - DH
5. Dye - RF
6. Ramirez - SS
7. Pierzynski - C
8. Swisher - 1B
9. Anderson/Owens - CF

Obviously this would be a pretty good line-up in my eyes... two .370 OBP guys ahead of Q, Thome & Dye... that would mean a lot of runs!

We would then be able to sacrafice the low average of Anderson for DEFENSE in CF... what a concept!

Zisk77
11-06-2008, 07:43 PM
Ramirez and Danks were both huge question marks last year. I imagine a package like that would probably have to include Fields as well, at the very least.


I meant by the trade deadline

Craig Grebeck
11-06-2008, 08:04 PM
I meant by the trade deadline
That's idiotic.

Tragg
11-06-2008, 08:26 PM
Isn't Roberts a rent?
The package shouldn't be that big. Certainly to the level of not sending every decent prospect we have for a 1 year rent.

Zisk77
11-06-2008, 08:30 PM
That's idiotic.


Read previous post....I meant that Balt would want Danks and Ramirez last year by the the tradeline for Roberts which of course we wouldn't do. But now Balt would prolly do the trade for Feild, Poreda, etc.

btrain929
11-06-2008, 08:40 PM
So what are the chances of getting both Figgins and Roberts? And yes, I'm serious. The stars have to align...

As much as I love Konerko, he is expendable and Los Angeles would probably be 1 of the few teams he'd waive his no-trade to.

Konerko - Figgins

Like people have said Roberts is in his walk year, maybe the White Sox ask to negotiate a contract with him before they trade for him and give Konerko's money to Roberts.

Poreda, Fields & Unknown - Roberts

Line-up would be the following:

1. Roberts - 2b
2. Figgins - 3b
3. Quentin - LF
4. Thome - DH
5. Dye - RF
6. Ramirez - SS
7. Pierzynski - C
8. Swisher - 1B
9. Anderson/Owens - CF

Obviously this would be a pretty good line-up in my eyes... two .370 OBP guys ahead of Q, Thome & Dye... that would mean a lot of runs!

We would then be able to sacrafice the low average of Anderson for DEFENSE in CF... what a concept!

Both Roberts and Figgins would be a 1 yr rental. Konerko for Figgins would be ok since we have Swisher, but I wouldn't wanna give up Poreda for Roberts. Keep Poreda and just overpay for Roberts when he hits FA after '09. We'll have Contreras, MacDougal, and possibly Thome $$ coming off the books then.

PalehosePlanet
11-06-2008, 09:21 PM
Read previous post....I meant that Balt would want Danks and Ramirez last year by the the tradeline for Roberts which of course we wouldn't do. But now Balt would prolly do the trade for Feild, Poreda, etc.

I stated last year before the '08 season started that no GM worth his salt would trade John Danks for Brian Roberts straight-up, much less give a package that included Danks.

I'll say the same now for Poreda. A lefty with his type of stuff and upside is worth way more than a good 2B.

munchman33
11-06-2008, 09:38 PM
I stated last year before the '08 season started that no GM worth his salt would trade John Danks for Brian Roberts straight-up, much less give a package that included Danks.

I'll say the same now for Poreda. A lefty with his type of stuff and upside is worth way more than a good 2B.

You were right about Danks. But you're way off base to qualify Brian Roberts as "a good 2B." Brian Roberts is an elite leadoff hitter. He's the rare package of hitting and speed. And he plays good defense to boot.

Daver
11-06-2008, 09:39 PM
I'll say the same now for Poreda. A lefty with his type of stuff and upside is worth way more than a good 2B.

Are you seriously saying that a pitcher that has never thrown a single pitch against an MLB hitter is worth more than proven MLB successful position player?

I see a lot of downright ridiculous things posted here, most of them by Munch, but this ranks right up there with them.

Tragg
11-06-2008, 09:45 PM
You were right about Danks. But you're way off base to qualify Brian Roberts as "a good 2B." Brian Roberts is an elite leadoff hitter. He's the rare package of hitting and speed. And he plays good defense to boot.
Wonderful.
Let's sign him as a FA then and preserve the little amount of young talent we have.

munchman33
11-06-2008, 09:52 PM
Wonderful.
Let's sign him as a FA then and preserve the little amount of young talent we have.

He isn't a FA. Waiting until he hits the open market next offseason would be a mistake. We wouldn't sign him that way.

Tragg
11-06-2008, 09:54 PM
He isn't a FA. Waiting until he hits the open market next offseason would be a mistake. We wouldn't sign him that way.
I realize he's a rent. If we pay a rent's price, fine.

PalehosePlanet
11-06-2008, 10:10 PM
Are you seriously saying that a pitcher that has never thrown a single pitch against an MLB hitter is worth more than proven MLB successful position player?

I see a lot of downright ridiculous things posted here, most of them by Munch, but this ranks right up there with them.

Ridiculous? Really? And when is the last time we saw a GM deal a lefty who throws 95-99 and is under 25 years old?

I've watched baseball since the mid 70's and there have only been about 15-20 pitchers (max!) that fit this description, period.

The only way he gets traded is if it's part of larger deal for a superstar or if there is pitching coming back to us.

I'll say it again: Good 2B easy to find. A lefty that throws up to 100 MPH: Extremely difficult to find.

PalehosePlanet
11-06-2008, 10:16 PM
You were right about Danks. But you're way off base to qualify Brian Roberts as "a good 2B." Brian Roberts is an elite leadoff hitter. He's the rare package of hitting and speed. And he plays good defense to boot.

Okay, maybe he is better than "good," but there is a distinct possiblity that he is a one year rental. If he still had 2-3 years on an existing deal, that could be different.

Would you include Poreda in this trade even if you knew we would only have Roberts for one year?

Daver
11-06-2008, 10:38 PM
Ridiculous? Really? And when is the last time we saw a GM deal a lefty who throws 95-99 and is under 25 years old?

I've watched baseball since the mid 70's and there have only been about 15-20 pitchers (max!) that fit this description, period.

The only way he gets traded is if it's part of larger deal for a superstar or if there is pitching coming back to us.

I'll say it again: Good 2B easy to find. A lefty that throws up to 100 MPH: Extremely difficult to find.

So what?

He throws one pitch well, his mechanics are less than perfect, and he has never thrown a pitch against an MLB hitter.

If you are trading talent like that you better have a lot of it to get a proven MLB player.

That is how the business of baseball works in the real world.

PalehosePlanet
11-06-2008, 10:43 PM
So what?

He throws one pitch well, his mechanics are less than perfect, and he has never thrown a pitch against an MLB hitter.

If you are trading talent like that you better have a lot of it to get a proven MLB player.

That is how the business of baseball works in the real world.

Thankfully you're not our GM. Your logic is terrible.

munchman33
11-06-2008, 10:49 PM
Thankfully you're not our GM. Your logic is terrible.

I don't normally agree with Daver on prospect value, but he's right. Poreda throws one pitch that projects to a plus pitch. His other two pitches don't even project to average. At least when I was crazy about DLS, the guy had 3 plus or better pitches.

Daver
11-06-2008, 10:58 PM
Thankfully you're not our GM. Your logic is terrible.

Likewise I'm sure.

Your logic is laughable.

Daver
11-06-2008, 10:59 PM
I don't normally agree with Daver on prospect value, but he's right. Poreda throws one pitch that projects to a plus pitch. His other two pitches don't even project to average. At least when I was crazy about DLS, the guy had 3 plus or better pitches.

Munch, you have yet to see an upside prospect that you didn't overvalue by a ridiculous amount.

Domeshot17
11-06-2008, 11:14 PM
Munch, you have yet to see an upside prospect that you didn't overvalue by a ridiculous amount.

holy crap, Daver Munch and I all agree on something, sound the horns.

Poreda could be the Next Randy Johnson, or he could be the Next Matt Thornton, or he could the next Andy Sisco. Ill put my money on the latter 2. If we can get Roberts for him, WE DO IT.

btrain929
11-06-2008, 11:16 PM
holy crap, Daver Munch and I all agree on something, sound the horns.

Poreda could be the Next Randy Johnson, or he could be the Next Matt Thornton, or he could the next Andy Sisco. Ill put my money on the latter 2. If we can get Roberts for him, WE DO IT.

For only 1 year of him? I agree that I'd have no problem giving up Poreda for an All Star 2B, but if he wants to test the FA market after '09 (which I'm sure he will), why not just hold onto Poreda, and try to sign Roberts as a FA? That's one of the reasons a lot of people loved the Swisher trade: because of how long we had him under contract.

Zisk77
11-06-2008, 11:18 PM
I'm not sure Roberts would be a rental. He has never played on a winner and if offered a lucrative contract he just may take it. Might be worth a risk.

Noneck
11-07-2008, 12:07 AM
I read all the rumors here and in the media about who the Sox are trying to get in trades. The thing I never read is the lack of expendable assets the Sox have in order to make trades. In order to get a quality player a quality player or players have to be given in return. I have not read either here or in the media what expendable players the Sox have to trade to get a player like Roberts. There is no way of obtaining a quality player like Roberts because the Sox don't have enough expendable players to give in return. Its all a pipe dream.

btrain929
11-07-2008, 12:17 AM
I read all the rumors here and in the media about who the Sox are trying to get in trades. The thing I never read is the lack of expendable assets the Sox have in order to make trades. In order to get a quality player a quality player or players have to be given in return. I have not read either here or in the media what expendable players the Sox have to trade to get a player like Roberts. There is no way of obtaining a quality player like Roberts because the Sox don't have enough expendable players to give in return. Its all a pipe dream.

It's only for ONE YEAR of Roberts. The haul won't be as big as the one they were looking for last year. It won't be THAT hard to get Roberts if we really wanted him. You don't see names of players who could go over there because nobody knows what the hell BAL is looking for. They could look at a vet SP like Vazquez to anchor the staff with Guthrie, or they could just stockpile prospects like Poreda, Shelby, Getz, Egbert, Broadway, Allen, etc. We could give up any or all of those players, and since they don't plan on factoring into our '09, they would be expendable. I'm not saying how many or who of those players i'd give up for 1 year of Roberts, but no, it's not IMPOSSIBLE to get him.

Noneck
11-07-2008, 01:11 AM
It's only for ONE YEAR of Roberts. The haul won't be as big as the one they were looking for last year. It won't be THAT hard to get Roberts if we really wanted him. You don't see names of players who could go over there because nobody knows what the hell BAL is looking for. They could look at a vet SP like Vazquez to anchor the staff with Guthrie, or they could just stockpile prospects like Poreda, Shelby, Getz, Egbert, Broadway, Allen, etc. We could give up any or all of those players, and since they don't plan on factoring into our '09, they would be expendable. I'm not saying how many or who of those players i'd give up for 1 year of Roberts, but no, it's not IMPOSSIBLE to get him.

What I am saying is that other teams have more expendable players to give than the Sox. The Sox have no gems down in the farm and I don't think the Orioles are looking for a bunch of ok minor leaguers when they could get a gem or two from somewhere else. I doubt Vazquez is the guy they want to anchor their staff and if they wanted a innings eater .500 pitcher then can get Garland and not have to give up Roberts.

Maybe I'm blind to these kinda trade rumors but I still don't see anything happening.

btrain929
11-07-2008, 01:32 AM
What I am saying is that other teams have more expendable players to give than the Sox. The Sox have no gems down in the farm and I don't think the Orioles are looking for a bunch of ok minor leaguers when they could get a gem or two from somewhere else. I doubt Vazquez is the guy they want to anchor their staff and if they wanted a innings eater .500 pitcher then can get Garland and not have to give up Roberts.

Maybe I'm blind to these kinda trade rumors but I still don't see anything happening.

I agree with that. Just like the Peavy situation with the Braves and Cubs. The Braves have the better players to offer, but somehow the Cubs are the favorites to everybody. I don't get it.

LoveYourSuit
11-07-2008, 01:32 AM
I am almost willing to bet if the Sox put Poreda and Swisher as the two big pieces of a 3-4 player package, the Orioles will listen. Swisher still has value out there because of his age and nice contract. The Orioles need a power hitting 1B.... Milar is old and sucks.

guillensdisciple
11-07-2008, 03:04 AM
I am almost willing to bet if the Sox put Poreda and Swisher as the two big pieces of a 3-4 player package, the Orioles will listen. Swisher still has value out there because of his age and nice contract. The Orioles need a power hitting 1B.... Milar is old and sucks.

I want Roberts and Mora or some other quality hitting third basemen out of them.

I like the "going young" theory. We need to have player development through the farm system.

Plus releasing some of the big contracts that we have now with the older players such as Thome and Konerko creates a lot of space to acquire bigger pieces.

Pitching wins championships, the White Sox have an excellent base at the moment. If they use the money left over from the release of some of the big contracts they can acquire some A quality starters and bullpen.

On top of that Alexei, Swish, Quentin, and J.D can be a very productive middle of the order.

Yes, it might be a pain to watch them hit, but who truly knows how Getz, Fields, Owens/ Brian Anderson will develop.

And Poreda is our best pitching prospect, as people have mentioned, it is extremely difficult to find quality left handed pitching. He might develop great second stuff and with that fastball he might not need great back- up.

guillensdisciple
11-07-2008, 03:06 AM
Also there was a written review of the farm system and Clayton Richard received some great reviews. Perhaps all he needed to do was settle down in the Majors.

The few games before the playoffs and in the playoffs he was pitching great. I see some quality in him as a starter.

Craig Grebeck
11-07-2008, 08:31 AM
If we give up Poreda and Swisher for Brian Roberts, I give up. That's a horrible idea.

NLaloosh
11-07-2008, 10:28 AM
I still say the Orioles are a great trading partner for the Sox.

They could really use Vazquez and he'll go to the East.

I could see this:

Roberts, Mora and Daniel Cabrera for Vazquez, Fields, Getz with the Sox getting a window to sign Roberts to an extension.

Beckham would be ready for 3b by 2010 with Mora leaving and the infield set.

Cooper could fix Cabrera into a solid starter. Baltiomre has no choice but to rebuild. They can't contend in that divsion for atleast 3 more seasons.

doublem23
11-07-2008, 10:41 AM
Baltiomre has no choice but to rebuild. They can't contend in that divsion for atleast 3 more seasons.

Then why would they want our crappy prospects?

LoveYourSuit
11-07-2008, 10:41 AM
I still say the Orioles are a great trading partner for the Sox.

They could really use Vazquez and he'll go to the East.

I could see this:

Roberts, Mora and Daniel Cabrera for Vazquez, Fields, Getz with the Sox getting a window to sign Roberts to an extension.

Beckham would be ready for 3b by 2010 with Mora leaving and the infield set.

Cooper could fix Cabrera into a solid starter. Baltiomre has no choice but to rebuild. They can't contend in that divsion for atleast 3 more seasons.

I agree to the part that Baltimore is rebuilding, but I think they want to rebuild with steel and bricks while your are giving them mud and straws to work with.


Any conversation for a player like Roberts (that high level) will begin with Poreda and add min 2 other names rigth behind that.. And I am all for it.

NLaloosh
11-07-2008, 10:50 AM
Baltimore needs one veteran starter NOW. Which is why they will try to sign Burnett. They will fail but they still need to be competitive and someone to eat innings on a staff filled with unproven youngsters.

They would want Javy for sure and I think 2 years of Javy is worth one year of Roberts.

Fields would be a good replacement for Mora right now and save Balt. $ 9 mil. Getz could fill in or platoon at 2b right now for them. It's a solid deal. Baltimore has nothing to lose.

doublem23
11-07-2008, 10:53 AM
Baltimore needs one veteran starter NOW. Which is why they will try to sign Burnett. They will fail but they still need to be competitive and someone to eat innings on a staff filled with unproven youngsters.

They would want Javy for sure and I think 2 years of Javy is worth one year of Roberts.

Fields would be a good replacement for Mora right now and save Balt. $ 9 mil. Getz could fill in or platoon at 2b right now for them. It's a solid deal. Baltimore has nothing to lose.

Fields and Getz aren't that highly touted; If the O's were willing to shop guys like Roberts, Cabrera, and Mora I'm sure they could find more for their time with one of the other 28 teams in the league.

The only team that wants our ****ty prospects are the A's.

LoveYourSuit
11-07-2008, 10:56 AM
Fields and Getz aren't that highly touted; If the O's were willing to shop guys like Roberts, Cabrera, and Mora I'm sure they could find more for their time with one of the other 28 teams in the league.

The only team that wants our ****ty prospects are the A's.

Plus, they are better off selling each one of those guys individually rather than in a package.

munchman33
11-07-2008, 11:17 AM
If we give up Poreda and Swisher for Brian Roberts, I give up. That's a horrible idea.

:tealpolice:

btrain929
11-07-2008, 02:03 PM
I agree to the part that Baltimore is rebuilding, but I think they want to rebuild with steel and bricks while your are giving them mud and straws to work with.


Any conversation for a player like Roberts (that high level) will begin with Poreda and add min 2 other names rigth behind that.. And I am all for it.

Hahahaha, agreed. I was trying to figure out how to put into words what I was thinking, but you did it right there. Well played, sir.

NLaloosh
11-07-2008, 02:26 PM
I disagree. The only player being sought after is Roberts. No one wants to pay Mora $ 9 mil. and Cabrera may be released outright. So, getting Fields and Getz for those two might be all they can get if somebody takes all of Mora's salary.

btrain929
11-07-2008, 02:44 PM
I disagree. The only player being sought after is Roberts. No one wants to pay Mora $ 9 mil. and Cabrera may be released outright. So, getting Fields and Getz for those two might be all they can get if somebody takes all of Mora's salary.

Uhhhmmmm, did you see his stats last year? .285/23/104. 9 million isn't bad at all for that type of production. You're acting like they are trying to do a Andruw Jones-like salary dump.

Daver
11-07-2008, 02:59 PM
If we give up Poreda and Swisher for Brian Roberts, I give up. That's a horrible idea.

Any deal that doesn't include at least two corner outfielders is a bad deal. You can never have enough corner outfielders.

Zisk77
11-07-2008, 06:51 PM
Uhhhmmmm, did you see his stats last year? .285/23/104. 9 million isn't bad at all for that type of production. You're acting like they are trying to do a Andruw Jones-like salary dump.


Mora had a nice yr last year. The previous years haven't been good. The evidence is that for the past 3 yrs. Balt has been trying to deal Mora and Huff at the deadline and no takers and then they pass thru waivers and still no takers.

The thing about Mora that has me thinking is that he came up what the mets as an outfielder. He has some speed. Can he play CF? Might a change of scenary help him? Would it be worth taking on his contract if we can get Roberts? Does a one legged duck swim in a circle? Why are the voices in my head telling me to kill?