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Lip Man 1
11-02-2008, 10:02 PM
Particularly interesting is the VERY LAST line in Gonzales' story.

I wonder what this all means?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-03-white-sox-chicagonov03,0,5597399.story

Daver...you follow the minor leagues closely, any ideas on what could be happening?

Lip

Daver
11-02-2008, 10:15 PM
Particular interesting is the VERY LAST line in Gonzales' story.

I wonder what this all means?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-03-white-sox-chicagonov03,0,5597399.story

Daver...you follow the minor leagues closely, any ideas on what could be happening?

Lip

I know there will be a major shakeup of coaches and managers on every level, I don't know if it will mean a lot of firings or just re-assignments. I have heard rumors that can't be confirmed that Buddy Bell is going to introduce requirements that have to be met before a player is promoted to the next level. The rumors do have some credence, but I find it hard to believe that a change this encompassing can be done all at once, perhaps it will be phased in gradually.

At this point any changes can only be an improvement, what really needs to happen is an increase in the scouting budget, but I am not going to hold my breath waiting for that.

Lip Man 1
11-02-2008, 10:30 PM
Well I know the Sox are going to fire three managers at the minor league level and that Bobby Thigpen has requested to be reassigned back to simply being a pitching coach instead of being a manager.

Lip

DumpJerry
11-02-2008, 10:36 PM
Kenny is "hopeful" Alexei does not play Winter Ball? Can't he tell Alexei to spend the winter with his wife and kids?

Craig Grebeck
11-02-2008, 10:40 PM
I'd have to think it's something in the upper levels of the organization. They've fired the managers already and they have little influence as is.

btrain929
11-02-2008, 10:46 PM
Well I know the Sox are going to fire three managers at the minor league level and that Bobby Thigpen has requested to be reassigned back to simply being a pitching coach instead of being a manager.

Lip

Wow. Firing 3 of the 6 managers in our farm system would definitely fall under the "sweeping changes" category. Lip, any info on who they'd be looking to take those positions? Promotions for some of the coaches on staff? Former players?

DrCrawdad
11-02-2008, 11:08 PM
Wow. Firing 3 of the 6 managers in our farm system would definitely fall under the "sweeping changes" category. Lip, any info on who they'd be looking to take those positions? Promotions for some of the coaches on staff? Former players?

Is Jerry Hairston Sr on the chopping block?

Flight #24
11-03-2008, 11:34 AM
I know there will be a major shakeup of coaches and managers on every level, I don't know if it will mean a lot of firings or just re-assignments. I have heard rumors that can't be confirmed that Buddy Bell is going to introduce requirements that have to be met before a player is promoted to the next level. The rumors do have some credence, but I find it hard to believe that a change this encompassing can be done all at once, perhaps it will be phased in gradually.

At this point any changes can only be an improvement, what really needs to happen is an increase in the scouting budget, but I am not going to hold my breath waiting for that.

This would be fantastic news, and from what I've heard, more along the lines of the way the Twins develop their guys. There's a big part of me that can't believe any team wouldn't have these kind of things in place, but I guess they get as swayed as anyone by the lure of the HR or SB - never mind if the guy can't get down a bunt, hit to the right side, etc.

Lundind1
11-03-2008, 12:14 PM
This is all just the grand plan that will make the White Sox contenders for many years to come. If I were a manager at the Sox minor league level I would be nervous too. If I remember correctly, there was only one with a winning record and a playoff appearance. I understand that the ultimate goal is get the guys ready for the next level and that there is a high level of flux that makes it tough to field a team, but isn't there some level of accountability?

It will be interesting to see who gets the axe now.

SoxSpeed22
11-03-2008, 01:09 PM
I'm happy that they are taking these steps. I for one am sick of these prospects that come up and look like they have no clue how to play baseball. The Cardinals in the 80s did the same thing as what the Twins are doing now. The Sox can't keep relying on trading for other teams' prospects, even though it has worked. Eventually, teams will catch on. I believe Buddy Bell is the right guy to resurrect our farm system.

Lundind1
11-03-2008, 01:12 PM
I believe Buddy Bell is the right guy to resurrect our farm system.

Too bad he couldn't have done better in his managerial career. Oh well, their loss is our gain.

oeo
11-03-2008, 01:37 PM
Too bad he couldn't have done better in his managerial career. Oh well, their loss is our gain.

He stepped down and was actually going to work inside the Royals organization until he was offered a job by the Sox. I think he enjoys doing this more.

It wasn't his fault that the Royals suck.

Tekijawa
11-03-2008, 01:58 PM
Who swept for the minors this year and why would they need to be changed? I can't imagine what you would have to do to need to make a change at Sweeper? Sweeping isn't even that hard!

btrain929
11-03-2008, 02:02 PM
This is all just the grand plan that will make the White Sox contenders for many years to come. If I were a manager at the Sox minor league level I would be nervous too. If I remember correctly, there was only one with a winning record and a playoff appearance. I understand that the ultimate goal is get the guys ready for the next level and that there is a high level of flux that makes it tough to field a team, but isn't there some level of accountability?

It will be interesting to see who gets the axe now.

I'd rather have all the minor league teams have terrible records, as long as the prospects were actually being taught something and used those games to work on those specific skills.

Lundind1
11-03-2008, 02:56 PM
I'd rather have all the minor league teams have terrible records, as long as the prospects were actually being taught something and used those games to work on those specific skills.

I will agree with you whole heartedly on that one. That is why I said those leagues are there to prepare the guys for the next level.

DumpJerry
11-03-2008, 03:26 PM
I'd rather have all the minor league teams have terrible records, as long as the prospects were actually being taught something and used those games to work on those specific skills.

I will agree with you whole heartedly on that one. That is why I said those leagues are there to prepare the guys for the next level.
I'm never bothered when minor league teams do poorly in the standings. All their good players are moved up to the next level.

At AAA, you get a different situation where you not only have good players, but you have Big League players on rehab. Also, the good players are often being used in ways that do not bring out all of their talents (i.e., a pitcher is to throw only certain pitches, a batter is to be used in certain situations or a player is playing out of position to learn a new position) so the result is not always a true reflection of the talent.

btrain929
11-03-2008, 03:30 PM
I'm never bothered when minor league teams do poorly in the standings. All their good players are moved up to the next level.

At AAA, you get a different situation where you not only have good players, but you have Big League players on rehab. Also, the good players are often being used in ways that do not bring out all of their talents (i.e., a pitcher is to throw only certain pitches, a batter is to be used in certain situations or a player is playing out of position to learn a new position) so the result is not always a true reflection of the talent.

Do you know anything about these new coaches that were brought aboard to our minor league squads? Were they hand-picked by Buddy himself? If so, that's a good sign...

DumpJerry
11-03-2008, 04:10 PM
Do you know anything about these new coaches that were brought aboard to our minor league squads? Were they hand-picked by Buddy himself? If so, that's a good sign...
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/11/sweeping-change.html

btrain929
11-03-2008, 04:51 PM
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/11/sweeping-change.html

Well I already read that. I guess I was referring to anything you know outside of where they've been in the past.

SCCWS
11-03-2008, 05:29 PM
I agree that there needs to be accountability for minor league managers. I also agree that White Sox rookies do not seem to be schooled in fundamentals when called up. But I hope they are not firing 3 managers when the real problem is the people drafting inferior talent.

MisterB
11-03-2008, 05:33 PM
But I hope they are not firing 3 managers when the real problem is the people drafting inferior talent.

That's why Duane Shaffer was fired last year. He headed amateur scouting and ran the Sox drafts since '91.

Daver
11-03-2008, 05:34 PM
I agree that there needs to be accountability for minor league managers. I also agree that White Sox rookies do not seem to be schooled in fundamentals when called up. But I hope they are not firing 3 managers when the real problem is the people drafting inferior talent.

Is the talent inferior or is it the people hired to develop it and the methods used?

munchman33
11-03-2008, 05:35 PM
Is the talent inferior or is it the people hired to develop it and the methods used?

I guess we'll find out.

Lip Man 1
11-03-2008, 06:42 PM
Sox make a ton of minor league moves and gang some of these are very, very good.

Chambliss is one of the smartest guys around and I'll take anybody out of the Angels system given the way they produce talent and how they play the game....not "all or nothing" but a superior blend of things that produce good teams.

Don't pooh-pooh or dismiss these moves today as "nothing." They are far from that.

Lip

Lip Man 1
11-03-2008, 11:49 PM
More on today's moves and why they were made:

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/11/minor-league-ob.html

Lip

khan
11-05-2008, 01:04 PM
I look hopefully to the prospect of this organization actually producing more "complete" players in the near future. This, instead of merely advancing a position player when he hits at a given level.

I look hopefully to the prospect of this organization giving minor league pitchers the opportunity to work with a coach at a level a year and develop their game. This, instead of the Boone Logan-style rushing of pitchers through the system.

And I also look hopefully to the prospect of this organization using more than "signability" to make their draft choices. This, so that the depth of talent is improved inasmuch as the people and the means to develop it are improved.


Having said this, who knows if it'll work or not. We've all become so accustomed to a poor minor league system bereft of talent or the means to develop it.
Perhaps doing ANYTHING different with the scouting and player development will be an improvement, and we'll be able to reap the rewards at the big league level in the near future...

Flight #24
11-05-2008, 02:05 PM
At last, some action behind the words we've heard for so many years about the Sox placing some importance on "playing the game right" but never actually being able to make that happen within the system.

IMO the Sox have had some talented players come up, but the lack of fundamentals hurt them significantly and the fact that the lesser players were basically useless because they couldn't execute has been a major factor in the team being "almost good enough" but losing out to the likes of the Twins many times.

How much does the HR or nothing philosophy change if you have 2d tier players that can actually contribute offensively when they don't hit one of their 8 HR on the year? It completely changes the bottom of the order and makes the guys at the top & middle.....productive.

Looking forward to these changes filtering up to the bigs sooner rather than later!