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TheKittle
10-30-2008, 11:17 AM
Why are the Sox so bad in signing and developing Latin American players? Not enough money? Not enough scouts? Bad scouts? Not enough contacts?

Daver
10-30-2008, 11:40 AM
Money.

Scouting Latin American players is expensive.

TheKittle
10-30-2008, 11:43 AM
Money.

Scouting Latin American players is expensive.


No it's not. SIGNING them is expensive. :)

Daver
10-30-2008, 11:51 AM
No it's not.

Actually it is. You have to pay for travel, and the scouts get paid a premium because they are spending extended amounts of time, 3-4 months, away from home. The Dodgers used to find a lot of talent there by using scouts that lived there, but they also got sold a bunch of lousy ball players by the same scouts taking payoffs.

TheKittle
10-30-2008, 11:53 AM
Actually it is. You have to pay for travel, and the scouts get paid a premium because they are spending extended amounts of time, 3-4 months, away from home. The Dodgers used to find a lot of talent there by using scouts that lived there, but they also got sold a bunch of lousy ball players by the same scouts taking payoffs.

Don't most scouts live in Latin America? It's not an American scout going over there to find player, it's usually somebody from Latin America who is scouting.

Daver
10-30-2008, 11:55 AM
Don't most scouts live in Latin America? It's not an American scout going over there to find player, it's usually somebody from Latin America who is scouting.

It's been tried, for the most part they can't be trusted, teams prefer to send someone they trust, to double check what they get from local scouts.

hellview
10-30-2008, 04:43 PM
Mod edit. DO NOT COPY AND PASTE COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL FROM PAY SITES> YOU WILL BE BANNED IF IT HAPPENS AGAIN.

2906
10-30-2008, 04:52 PM
SPENDING SPREE

Here's an idea why...

Where's that report from, is that from Baseball America's recent feature on international signings?

hellview
10-30-2008, 04:54 PM
Where's that report from, is that from Baseball America's recent feature on international signings?

yep...

2906
10-30-2008, 04:56 PM
yep...

Thanks. Did it say anything about who the Sox signed?

They always sign a whole bunch of guys and half of them never get reported.

hellview
10-30-2008, 05:00 PM
Thanks. Did it say anything about who the Sox signed?

They always sign a whole bunch of guys and half of them never get reported.

No one worth mentioning...

Jeff B
10-30-2008, 05:03 PM
Thanks. Did it say anything about who the Sox signed?

They always sign a whole bunch of guys and half of them never get reported.
They signed Tiago Calixto for $300,000, Rafi Reyes for $525,000 and Leopold Sanchez for $170,000.

All were awful.

2906
10-30-2008, 05:47 PM
They signed Tiago Calixto for $300,000, Rafi Reyes for $525,000 and Leopold Sanchez for $170,000.

All were awful.

I don't understand this post.

If they just signed these guys, which I'm assuming you meant, how can it be determined all were awful?

2906
10-30-2008, 05:48 PM
No one worth mentioning...

Were any names mentioned in the report you read?

Jeff B
10-30-2008, 06:31 PM
I don't understand this post.

If they just signed these guys, which I'm assuming you meant, how can it be determined all were awful?
You asked for the names in the BA report and I provided them.

I was able to determine that they were all awful by doing some research, looking up their stats, which I know is a novel idea, doing something for yourself when could wait for someone else to do it first but that's what I did. You could have done it as well, I even gave you the names all you had to do was search for them but instead you just posted "I don't understand".

Daver
10-30-2008, 06:40 PM
You asked for the names in the BA report and I provided them.

I was able to determine that they were all awful by doing some research, looking up their stats, which I know is a novel idea, doing something for yourself when could wait for someone else to do it first but that's what I did. You could have done it as well, I even gave you the names all you had to do was search for them but instead you just posted "I don't understand".

Calling a player awful when you have never seen him play is like calling a food awful when you have never tasted it. Those little numbers next to a players name don't actually play the game.

Jeff B
10-30-2008, 07:07 PM
Calling a player awful when you have never seen him play is like calling a food awful when you have never tasted it. Those little numbers next to a players name don't actually play the game.
Calixto had a 7+ ERA and a 7/19 K/BB rate. I think I can pretty safely call than an awful season.

Reyes posted a .180/.238/.266 line with 93 K's in 256 AB's. I think I can pretty safely call than an awful season.

Sanchez posted a .209/.346/.221 line. Again, I think I can pretty safely call than an awful season.

While stats may not be a great indicator of future success they can tell you, for the most part, if a player had a good year or not and I stand by my claim that these players did not have good seasons and were in fact all awful.

Daver
10-30-2008, 07:20 PM
While stats may not be a great indicator of future success they can tell you, for the most part, if a player had a good year or not and I stand by my claim that these players did not have good seasons and were in fact all awful.

What are the field conditions these players are playing in?

How short are the fences?

Is the infield dirt or gravel? Yes there are gravel infields in the Latin leagues.

Do any of these players have an easily correctable flaw in their approach?

Stats can be made to tell you any story you want to hear, sell that garbage elsewhere.

2906
10-30-2008, 07:55 PM
You asked for the names in the BA report and I provided them.

I was able to determine that they were all awful by doing some research, looking up their stats, which I know is a novel idea, doing something for yourself when could wait for someone else to do it first but that's what I did. You could have done it as well, I even gave you the names all you had to do was search for them but instead you just posted "I don't understand".

How about this, go stuff it.

It's as I suspected, you're making judgements by looking at stats. You have no freaking clue whether these guys are any good or not, Captain One Liner.

Here's a novel idea, if you really truly don't have a clue, which you don't, then just shut the hell up.

Jeff B
10-30-2008, 08:51 PM
What are the field conditions these players are playing in?

How short are the fences?

Is the infield dirt or gravel? Yes there are gravel infields in the Latin leagues.

Do any of these players have an easily correctable flaw in their approach?

I'm not sure you're understanding what I'm saying. I'm not saying these players have no potential whatsoever, I was just saying that all 3 of them had awful seasons. They may all have very easily correctable flaws, which, once corrected could lead them on the path to stardom, it very well could be the case. They may have all been working on a specific part of their game which ended up hurting their numbers, in the long run it could be great for development but in the short run could have been what led to their awful seasons.

Jeff B
10-30-2008, 08:52 PM
How about this, go stuff it.

It's as I suspected, you're making judgements by looking at stats. You have no freaking clue whether these guys are any good or not, Captain One Liner.

Here's a novel idea, if you really truly don't have a clue, which you don't, then just shut the hell up.
Go stuff it?

Well played sir, well played.

DSpivack
10-30-2008, 08:59 PM
How has there been zero mention of Dave Wilder thus far?

Daver
10-30-2008, 09:18 PM
I'm not sure you're understanding what I'm saying. I'm not saying these players have no potential whatsoever, I was just saying that all 3 of them had awful seasons. They may all have very easily correctable flaws, which, once corrected could lead them on the path to stardom, it very well could be the case. They may have all been working on a specific part of their game which ended up hurting their numbers, in the long run it could be great for development but in the short run could have been what led to their awful seasons.

Awful compared to what? Compared to numbers outside of the Latin leagues or compared to the league itself, and the overall averages?

All stats can be made to lie when used wrong, which is exactly what you are doing.

You don't seem to grasp the whole picture here. You probably never will.

TheKittle
10-30-2008, 10:57 PM
To say a player had an awful first season is OK.

But to say or imply they aren't prospect based on one season, just shows some people (Not you Daver) have no clue about the process of developing players.

btrain929
10-30-2008, 11:22 PM
You asked for the names in the BA report and I provided them.

I was able to determine that they were all awful by doing some research, looking up their stats, which I know is a novel idea, doing something for yourself when could wait for someone else to do it first but that's what I did. You could have done it as well, I even gave you the names all you had to do was search for them but instead you just posted "I don't understand".

Do you know how dumb it is to say players are awful just by looking up their stats? If that was the case, then Floyd, Contreras, Thornton, and Quentin would all be dismissed as awful and never pursued.

btrain929
10-30-2008, 11:26 PM
They signed Tiago Calixto for $300,000, Rafi Reyes for $525,000 and Leopold Sanchez for $170,000.

All were awful.

I'm not sure you're understanding what I'm saying. I'm not saying these players have no potential whatsoever, I was just saying that all 3 of them had awful seasons. They may all have very easily correctable flaws, which, once corrected could lead them on the path to stardom, it very well could be the case. They may have all been working on a specific part of their game which ended up hurting their numbers, in the long run it could be great for development but in the short run could have been what led to their awful seasons.

You just said 2 different things. 1st post you said they were awful. Then you tried to backtrack saying "no, no, they just had an awful season, but I never said they had no potential." If you truly thought they had potential, you would have said so in your first post somewhere before or after "they're awful."

BadBobbyJenks
10-31-2008, 12:23 AM
War Statheads!