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Lip Man 1
10-29-2008, 03:50 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081029&content_id=3652422&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

With all due respect to Don, if the Sox are wondering who their 5th starter is going to be for a FULL season and if either Logan and MacDougal are in the bullpen, it could be a long season.

Kenny needs to get rid of the deadwood again like before the 08 season and bring in a competent 5th starter.

Lip

turners56
10-29-2008, 03:52 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081029&content_id=3652422&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

With all due respect to Don, if the Sox are wondering who their 5th starter is going to be for a FULL season and if either Logan and MacDougal are in the bullpen, it could be a long season.

Kenny needs to get rid of the deadwood again like before the 08 season and bring in a competent 5th starter.

Lip

I'd like us to sign Juan Cruz. He's been pretty stable in the AZ bullpen for the past couple of years. As for the fifth starter, I think Richard might get the call. We're not going to sign any good pitchers and I don't really know what we can trade for.

jabrch
10-29-2008, 03:54 PM
Why are you assuming Coop plans on "wondering" who is the 5th starter? It seems like we have multiple options that he feels he can be comforable with.

Lip Man 1
10-29-2008, 03:55 PM
Turner:

There are a number of potentially serviceable vets available for a reasonable price. It happens every year and for what it's worth, the latest I was told was that Kenny wasn't just going to hand the job to Richard or Broadway, that he wants someone brought in to push them.

We'll see.

Jab, neither Broadway nor Richard impressed me that much...both had their moments but overall...meh. There was a reason Richard had an ERA of 6 or so...he was getting hammered more often then not.

Lip

oeo
10-29-2008, 03:55 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081029&content_id=3652422&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

With all due respect to Don, if the Sox are wondering who their 5th starter is going to be for a FULL season and if either Logan and MacDougal are in the bullpen, it could be a long season.

Kenny needs to get rid of the deadwood again like before the 08 season and bring in a competent 5th starter.

Lip

Uh...MacDougal and Logan were not on the 25-man roster at the end of the year. They were brought up when rosters expanded, so they would not be in our bullpen if we were to keep everything the same.

oeo
10-29-2008, 03:59 PM
I'd like us to sign Juan Cruz. He's been pretty stable in the AZ bullpen for the past couple of years. As for the fifth starter, I think Richard might get the call. We're not going to sign any good pitchers and I don't really know what we can trade for.

Paying relievers every year is not a very good plan. The bullpen is solid right now (as long as Linebrink comes back...we have four solid guys in Jenks, Thornton, Linebrink, and Dotel; if our starters don't **** the bed, we can depend on those four). It could get better, but we're a lot better off now than we were a year ago, so we don't really need to do whatever it takes to bring in the big free agent reliever (like Linebrink).

We're eventually going to have to get help from the minor leagues, whether you like it or not. And again, there are a few options down there that we haven't even seen yet.

salty99
10-29-2008, 03:59 PM
Aaron Poreda..done.

turners56
10-29-2008, 04:01 PM
Aaron Poreda..done.

He's still in AA, isn't he? He looks like another coming of Matt Thornton if you ask me. Which wouldn't be a bad thing.

turners56
10-29-2008, 04:02 PM
Paying relievers every year is not a very good plan. The bullpen is solid right now (as long as Linebrink comes back...we have four solid guys in Jenks, Thornton, Linebrink, and Dotel; if our starters don't **** the bed, we can depend on those four). It could get better, but we're a lot better off now than we were a year ago, so we don't really need to do whatever it takes to bring in the big free agent reliever (like Linebrink).

We're eventually going to have to get help from the minor leagues, whether you like it or not. And again, there are a few options down there that we haven't even seen yet.

I guess. The three-man rotation worked well for about two months this season. The only thing that scares me is if even one of those guys goes down or becomes ineffective, our entire bullpen will start sucking.

oeo
10-29-2008, 04:04 PM
I guess. The three-man rotation worked well for about two months this season. The only thing that scares me is if even one of those guys goes down or becomes ineffective, our entire bullpen will start sucking.

Well, any team that's playing with three starters is going to have a bad bullpen. You have to remember when they really struggled in September, our starters were not getting the job done, either. With the exception of Buehrle, they were not throwing any innings. Of course they stepped it up in the last three games. :D:

If there's a priority on the pitching staff, it's to get another starter. The bullpen should be fine as long as the rotation is doing their job.

turners56
10-29-2008, 04:06 PM
Well, any team that's playing with three starters is going to have a bad bullpen. You have to remember when they really struggled in September, our starters were not getting the job done, either. With the exception of Buehrle, they were not throwing any innings.

Of course they stepped it up in the last three games. :D:

I'm talking about the bullpen, as in Dotel, Linebrink, and Thornton.

oeo
10-29-2008, 04:08 PM
I'm talking about the bullpen, as in Dotel, Linebrink, and Thornton.

Ah. Well, look at when it did work: when we were getting good starting pitching. Get another starter, and we should be alright.

And next year, we'll be in quite a different situation if a starter goes down. We'll have Richard, Poreda, and Contreras should be back by August (although who knows how effective he will be, if he even can come back)...which is a lot better than Richard and Broadway.

Domeshot17
10-29-2008, 04:08 PM
Aaron Poreda..done.

except he doesn't any any resemblance of a breaking ball. I don't how care how hard you throw, if you have nothing to go with the fastball and changeup, you won't succeed.

turners56
10-29-2008, 04:27 PM
except he doesn't any any resemblance of a breaking ball. I don't how care how hard you throw, if you have nothing to go with the fastball and changeup, you won't succeed.

Matt Thronton's had two real successful seasons with pretty much nothing but a fastball. He has an average slider and he doesn't locate it well most of the time. If you only pitch one inning in an outing, a 97 MPH fastball with good location can be devastating. Poreda won't make a good starter, but he'll make a hell of a LOOGY or a middle relief guy.

Zisk77
10-29-2008, 04:35 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081029&content_id=3652422&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

With all due respect to Don, if the Sox are wondering who their 5th starter is going to be for a FULL season and if either Logan and MacDougal are in the bullpen, it could be a long season.

Kenny needs to get rid of the deadwood again like before the 08 season and bring in a competent 5th starter.

Lip


Oh come on. How many teams not named the rays know who their 5th starter is for next year (or 4th or 3rd starter for that matter). How many teams know what there Bullpen will look like next year?

The problem with getting a free agent pitcher to fill the 5th spot everytime is that you never develop those pitchers in the minor leagues everyone gripes about that we don't develope. Your right Broadway and Richard did struggle more often then not, but they weren't conistently put out there. Most rookie pitchers do experience quite a bit of failure but must be allowed to fail and learn no matter how painful it is to us to watch. Where would we be now if we didn't let Danks and Floyd get lit up for a full year in 07?

Now, Maybe a FA pitcher or trade will appear that is too good to pass up. But lets not go get someone like Steve Trachsel instead of giving Richard or Broadway a start.

Of course getting a Quality 5th starter and letting Broadway adn Richard develop in the pen may be an option as well and may kill 2 birds with on stone.

Zisk77
10-29-2008, 04:45 PM
except he doesn't any any resemblance of a breaking ball. I don't how care how hard you throw, if you have nothing to go with the fastball and changeup, you won't succeed.


Actually if you have a good fastball and a change-up (or equivalent e.i. splitter, forkball) thats all you need. You just can't live on a good fast ball. Some examples of pitchers who basically threw 2 pitches.

Jack McDowell
Johan Santanna
Greg Maddux

Now Maddux could throw his fb a variety of different ways same for Jack's Splitter.

Heck, even Garland was almost exclusively a sinker change-up guy. Every once in a while he'd show a curve or slider.

hellview
10-29-2008, 04:50 PM
Actually if you have a good fastball and a change-up (or equivalent e.i. splitter, forkball) thats all you need. You just can't live on a good fast ball. Some examples of pitchers who basically threw 2 pitches.

Jack McDowell
Johan Santanna
Greg Maddux

Now Maddux could throw his fb a variety of different ways same for Jack's Splitter.

Heck, even Garland was almost exclusively a sinker change-up guy. Every once in a while he'd show a curve or slider.

Way to use the most extreme cases...

Santana, McDowell, Maddox and Aaron Poreda...one of these things is not like the others!!!

jabrch
10-29-2008, 04:54 PM
Jab, neither Broadway nor Richard impressed me that much...both had their moments but overall...meh. There was a reason Richard had an ERA of 6 or so...he was getting hammered more often then not.

Lip

While what you are saying ist true, they both looked decent in the minors and had a few decent outings. It is far too early to concluie that they will be "wondering" who will be their starter all year.

While that's a possible outcome, it is by no means the surety. Hell - people said we'd be wondering who was to be our 4th and 5th starters all season this year - they asked the same Qs of Floyd and Danks.

Daver
10-29-2008, 05:08 PM
Turner:

There are a number of potentially serviceable vets available for a reasonable price.

Reasonable to whom?

veeter
10-29-2008, 06:39 PM
Turner:

There are a number of potentially serviceable vets available for a reasonable price. It happens every year and for what it's worth, the latest I was told was that Kenny wasn't just going to hand the job to Richard or Broadway, that he wants someone brought in to push them.

We'll see.

Jab, neither Broadway nor Richard impressed me that much...both had their moments but overall...meh. There was a reason Richard had an ERA of 6 or so...he was getting hammered more often then not.

LipRichard did get hammered from time to time, but he was a rookie. Players do develop, players do get better. He showed a lot of potential.

JB98
10-30-2008, 12:31 AM
I think we are in good shape for the bullpen with Jenks, Thornton, Linebrink and Dotel. There's a lot of dollars tied up in those guys, and they just have to go out there and earn their pay.

I would like to see a veteran acquired to compete with Richard and Broadway for the last spot in the rotation.

The 'X' factor is Contreras. Can he recover to give us anything at all next year? Who knows.....

russ99
10-30-2008, 09:42 AM
Paying relievers every year is not a very good plan. The bullpen is solid right now (as long as Linebrink comes back...we have four solid guys in Jenks, Thornton, Linebrink, and Dotel; if our starters don't **** the bed, we can depend on those four). It could get better, but we're a lot better off now than we were a year ago, so we don't really need to do whatever it takes to bring in the big free agent reliever (like Linebrink).

We're eventually going to have to get help from the minor leagues, whether you like it or not. And again, there are a few options down there that we haven't even seen yet.

Well it's proven that you'll get better middle relief from a rookie than overpaying for a broken down vet (Like Mike Myers), so I do see us bringing up a new batch of kids to challenge for spots.

But one moderately priced FA to add to the 6th/7th inning mix wouldn't be a bad idea either.

As for starter, it's obvious we need an experienced 5th guy, but I'd really like to see Kenny reach higher (as he's always done with SPs) and get us a solid #3 guy and let better pitchers fall to the lower spots in the rotation. Vazquez may not be a bad idea at #5, let him get some confidence again so we can sell high rather than sell low as his value is right now.

To rely on Contreras at all next season would be foolhardy. If he can recover to pitch again in the majors would be a bonus, but I wouldn't count on it.

guillen4life13
10-30-2008, 02:28 PM
Well it's proven that you'll get better middle relief from a rookie than overpaying for a broken down vet (Like Mike Myers), so I do see us bringing up a new batch of kids to challenge for spots.

But one moderately priced FA to add to the 6th/7th inning mix wouldn't be a bad idea either.

As for starter, it's obvious we need an experienced 5th guy, but I'd really like to see Kenny reach higher (as he's always done with SPs) and get us a solid #3 guy and let better pitchers fall to the lower spots in the rotation. Vazquez may not be a bad idea at #5, let him get some confidence again so we can sell high rather than sell low as his value is right now.

To rely on Contreras at all next season would be foolhardy. If he can recover to pitch again in the majors would be a bonus, but I wouldn't count on it.

Honestly, I see Contreras as probably being the equivalent of a mid-season bullpen pickup for next year. I don't expect him in the rotation, but I think that he will come back mid-season and pitch in relief. If Coop and Herm think he is up to it, they will stretch him out and put him back in the rotation if needed, but I don't expect that.

I hope Jose can come back and be good again, but if he shows that he no longer has it, I hope he doesn't pitch a major league inning. Then the Sox wouldn't be on the hook for his contract, right?

NLaloosh
10-30-2008, 03:15 PM
1. I think Cooper is giving the standard response here. I wouldn't read anything much into it.

2. The Sox don't have many spots open on their staff. One starting spot and maybe a bullpen spot.

3. I'm certain that Kenny signs a 5th starter. He probably adds a bullpen guy too but not an elite one.

4. Remember, Contreras will be back and Poreda is coming on.

5. The pitching should be about as good as last year. That was good enough to win the division. I don't see Kenny making any real significant moves here. Bullpen health will be a key.

Lip Man 1
10-30-2008, 05:06 PM
Contreras is done, if the Sox count on him for anything other then collecting the final year of his contract they are being foolish in my opinion.

Lip