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Rockabilly
10-29-2008, 11:54 AM
any predictions who will be the starting CF for the Sox next year..

I will say it will be Coco Crisp

tick53
10-29-2008, 12:02 PM
If the Sox are smart, they'll quit goofing around and use Brian Anderson

palehozenychicty
10-29-2008, 12:03 PM
If the Sox are smart, they'll quit goofing around and use Brian Anderson


They won't, though. I think it'll be Crisp, too.

veeter
10-29-2008, 12:05 PM
After Kenny's work last off-season, who knows? Brian is still an ideal 4th OF, IMO.

GreenWoman3212
10-29-2008, 12:10 PM
Crisp? Really?

Hoping it's Anderson.

tick53
10-29-2008, 12:11 PM
They won't, though. I think it'll be Crisp, too.


Yeah Palehoze, your'e probably right but I'd still like to see the Sox utilize a number one draft pick for a change. It just bums me out. Plus, I've never been a big fan if Coco Crisp.

Chez
10-29-2008, 12:27 PM
Hate to say it, but I don't think KW will be able to move any of his plodders/sluggers and Nick Swisher will be in CF.

btrain929
10-29-2008, 12:30 PM
I don't think Swisher will be in CF. Either Dye will be traded, Swisher will play right, or Paulie will be traded with Nick playing 1B, and we will acquire either David Dejesus or Randy Winn for CF thru trade.

Rockabilly
10-29-2008, 12:33 PM
I don't think Swisher will be in CF. Either Dye will be traded, Swisher will play right, or Paulie will be traded with Nick playing 1B, and we will acquire either David Dejesus or Randy Winn for CF thru trade.


I would love to see KW pick up Dejesus..

WhiteSox5187
10-29-2008, 12:59 PM
I have it from a source high up in the Cincy organization that when the Griffey trade went down the Reds asked for Anderson to be included but Kenny said no "He's our starting CFer next year." We'll see if that's true.

I think Anderson would make a good fit and can probably hit .240 with hopefully an OBP that is in the .320s. So we'd need to have a good 1-8 if he's going ot be our 9 hitter.

Craig Grebeck
10-29-2008, 01:12 PM
DeJesus is not very good in CF. Move him to left/right and he loses a lot of value. The Royals won't be sending him our way anyway.

TDog
10-29-2008, 01:16 PM
I don't think Swisher will be in CF. Either Dye will be traded, Swisher will play right, or Paulie will be traded with Nick playing 1B, and we will acquire either David Dejesus or Randy Winn for CF thru trade.

I would much rather see Swisher traded. I don't expect him to have a role as a starter on the Sox when the 2009 season begins, but that might be wishful thinking.

If what I want and what I believe had any influence on White Sox baseball, Swisher wouldn't have been acquired by the White Sox in the first place.

Craig Grebeck
10-29-2008, 01:17 PM
I would much rather see Swisher traded. I don't expect him to have a role as a starter on the Sox when the 2009 season begins, but that might be wishful thinking.

If what I want and what I believe had any influence on White Sox baseball, Swisher wouldn't have been acquired by the White Sox in the first place.
Yes, we're aware. We've read your essays on why he's not a winning ballplayer for the last ten months.

FarmerAndy
10-29-2008, 01:19 PM
the Reds asked for Anderson to be included but Kenny said no "He's our starting CFer next year."

.... and then Ozzie will give Anderson 2 starts out there before benching him in favor of some guy who isn't really a center fielder, claiming that they need to get said replacement's bat into the lineup.

I would love to see Brian Anderson get a real chance at the everyday CF job. But I have a feeling that as long as Ozzie is making out the lineup card, that won't happen.

soxfan21
10-29-2008, 01:21 PM
I would also like to see Anderson start in center next year, or see how Owens does in spring training and possibly give him a shot.

Craig Grebeck
10-29-2008, 01:26 PM
I would also like to see Anderson start in center next year, or see how Owens does in spring training and possibly give him a shot.
God help us all.

hellview
10-29-2008, 01:46 PM
I would love to see Brian Anderson get a real chance at the everyday CF job. But I have a feeling that as long as Ozzie is making out the lineup card, that won't happen.

I guess you missed 2006...

Lukin13
10-29-2008, 01:52 PM
I would love to see Mike Cameron, but I imagine it is a long shot. He is decent defensively, has a strong OBP and has the kind of pop that comes to life in the Cell. Milwaukee will most likely pick up his option, and if they do not he won't come cheap.

Crisp would be my second choice, but I wouldn't mind Anderson. I just beg Ozzie that if we do not acquire a CF, that he puts Brian out there and leaves him alone. No Dewayne Wise platoon, no Jerry Owens twice a week, no one else plays a damn day in CF until the allstar break... please.

Whomever he turns out to be I really hope he is a plus defender. Regardless of what Kenny does with 2nd, 3rd and our 5th starter holes, I will be sick if we have another corner outfielder roaming center on opening day.

TDog
10-29-2008, 01:54 PM
Yes, we're aware. We've read your essays on why he's not a winning ballplayer for the last ten months.

And as it applied to Nick Swisher, I was right in February and I was right in September. At least I should get credit for being right about him from Day One. If he isn't moved from the White Sox this offseason, I expect he will help the team any more than he did in 2008.

hellview
10-29-2008, 01:55 PM
I would love to see Mike Cameron, but I imagine it is a long shot. He is decent defensively, has a strong OBP and has the kind of pop that comes to life in the Cell. Milwaukee will most likely pick up his option, and if they do not he won't come cheap.


Since when is .331 a strong OBP?

Craig Grebeck
10-29-2008, 01:58 PM
And as it applied to Nick Swisher, I was right in February and I was right in September. At least I should get credit for being right about him from Day One. If he isn't moved from the White Sox this offseason, I expect he will help the team any more than he did in 2008.
And that expectation won't be right. It's easy to look on the surface and say that Nick Swisher bombed in 2008. It'd be foolish to use that as the only point of reference in judging his current and future value to this ballclub. He surely did suck in the latter half of 2008, I'd attribute that to pressing and flat-out not knowing what the hell was going on with his swing. I don't think he should be handed a starting job, but I don't think he should be buried on the bench. He should be penciled in for 400 AB, with the possibility of 600.

hi im skot
10-29-2008, 02:29 PM
For the record, Coco Crisp sucks.

esbrechtel
10-29-2008, 02:39 PM
For the record, Coco Crisp sucks.

Agreed skot....I would rather have the just as horrible Willy Taveras

Podsednik is a free agent

tick53
10-29-2008, 02:40 PM
:anderson:

"Well, put me in coach.
I'm ready to play. Today.
Put me in coach. I'm ready to play.
Today.
Look at me. I could be.
Centerfield."

whitesox901
10-29-2008, 02:47 PM
For the record, Coco Crisp sucks.

I agree 7 Fold


Im guessin' Wilits or Figgins

TDog
10-29-2008, 02:54 PM
And that expectation won't be right. It's easy to look on the surface and say that Nick Swisher bombed in 2008. It'd be foolish to use that as the only point of reference in judging his current and future value to this ballclub. He surely did suck in the latter half of 2008, I'd attribute that to pressing and flat-out not knowing what the hell was going on with his swing. I don't think he should be handed a starting job, but I don't think he should be buried on the bench. He should be penciled in for 400 AB, with the possibility of 600.

I am not reacting to Swisher having a bad season. Before the season started, I made clear my expectations that Swisher would have a bad season. As it turned out, he had a worse season than I expected. You were telling me I was wrong.

I will agree that most people in September, when my consistent Swisher take seemed to be in his defense, were reacting to him having a worse season than I projected him having. But the White Sox have better alternatives at every position Swisher plays. (That wasn't true before the emergence of Carlos Quentin, who was on the bench on opening day when Swisher started in left.) You could make an argument that Swisher is the best centerfielder on the Sox. I'm not sure you would win, and even if you did, the people who would concede that argument would also concede the Sox need an upgrade in center this offseason.

The Immigrant
10-29-2008, 02:59 PM
Juan Pierre or Willy Taveras.

:bundy

LITTLE NELL
10-29-2008, 03:04 PM
Its time to give Anderson a full shot in CF, I think he has matured a lot since 06.
That being said if BA is in CF we will need a true leadoff guy at 2b or SS depending where Alexei plays and also a solid guy batting second.

cbrownson13
10-29-2008, 03:35 PM
Whoever it is, he needs to either A. play exceptionally good defense or B. be a leadoff hitter.

Those are the two glaring needs for the Sox. Swisher just doesn't cut it as an every day center fielder defensively. Anderson is fine, but who leads off?

Crisp, on the outside, looks ok. But he's more of a #9 hitter than a #1. The hotly rumored Figgins is an ideal leadoff guy, but can he play center field every day? He's more of a 3B/2B guy.

Should be an interesting offseason.

jabrch
10-29-2008, 03:49 PM
I hope it is someone none of us are talking about right now. BA, Swish, Coco, etc just don't excite me.

turners56
10-29-2008, 03:55 PM
We should of bought low on Crisp last off-season. His value's slightly higher now after a decent year and a good postseason.

russ99
10-29-2008, 04:00 PM
I'm not on the Coco bandwagon either, but he's arguably better than Anderson:

in 7 seasons Crisp is:
.280 .331 .409 with an average of 26 SB,
and a range factor of 2.44 with 19 career assists in 549 games in CF

in 3 seasons BA is:
.221 .277 .379 with an average of 6 SB,
and a range factor of 1.80 with 3 career assists in 442 games in CF

But that would be applying common sense to the BA situation, rather than wishful thinking of a drastic improvement with more playing time...

The only way Anderson starts is if we can fill the other starting position holes with solid players. I see it going down the other way and Kenny deals for a starting leadoff CF and adds a decent #2 hitting 2B or SS through FA, and the nine hole is filled by our 3B, be it Fields or someone else.

CashMan
10-29-2008, 04:01 PM
I guess you missed 2006...


So a player struggling his rookie season, means he will never be good?

palehozenychicty
10-29-2008, 04:15 PM
Yeah Palehoze, your'e probably right but I'd still like to see the Sox utilize a number one draft pick for a change. It just bums me out. Plus, I've never been a big fan if Coco Crisp.


I do too. I know that Anderson has a lot of haters, which was deserved early on in his career, but at this point, is he really worse than Nick Swisher? He's had a quarter of Swisher's at-bats against major league pitching, so we still don't really know what he can do at the plate.

I'm sure with a full season of at-bats that he'd put up similar numbers, and play superior d. Nick Swisher may be one of the most overrated players in the game. His peak year was almost three years ago, at 25. Since then, his hittings stats have declined and been uneven. I just think he's a thinner Giambi.

Swisher will start, but I think we already know what we have in him.

turners56
10-29-2008, 04:17 PM
I'm not on the Coco bandwagon either, but he's arguably better than Anderson:

in 7 seasons Crisp is:
.280 .331 .409 with an average of 26 SB,
and a range factor of 2.44 with 19 career assists in 549 games in CF

in 3 seasons BA is:
.221 .277 .379 with an average of 6 SB,
and a range factor of 1.80 with 3 career assists in 442 games in CF

But that would be applying common sense to the BA situation, rather than wishful thinking of a drastic improvement with more playing time...

The only way Anderson starts is if we can fill the other starting position holes with solid players. I see it going down the other way and Kenny deals for a starting leadoff CF and adds a decent #2 hitting 2B or SS through FA, and the nine hole is filled by our 3B, be it Fields or someone else.


Eeek. Please don't use range factor. Coco Crisp is an exceptional fielder, he had a plus/minus rating of +22 (he made 22 above-average plays) in center field in 2007. By just watching Anderson, I know that he's a very reliable, above-average fielder, but not necessarily on the same level as Crisp. The only thing Anderson has on Crisp is arm strength and power. That's about it. Crisp would be an upgrade over BA. He's also a better option than the likes of Willy Taveras and Juan Pierre. He's also relatively cheap and Boston can expend him because they have Ellsbury. I'd say pull the trigger if it's reasonable.

oeo
10-29-2008, 04:23 PM
So a player struggling his rookie season, means he will never be good?

No, but a player that shows no improvement over the course of two years will never be good. The only thing Anderson has improved is his attitude. Otherwise, he's same the old good defense, terrible bat that he's been.

Here's something I don't get about Anderson and how he has so many supporters...Joe Crede had a better bat, and a great glove, but was absolutely hated by most. People wanted him out of town before 2005. Anderson has shown no major league potential, but the guy is a hero. How does that make sense?

russ99
10-29-2008, 04:25 PM
Eeek. Please don't use range factor. Coco Crisp is an exceptional fielder, he had a plus/minus rating of +22 (he made 22 above-average plays) in center field in 2007. By just watching Anderson, I know that he's a very reliable, above-average fielder, but not necessarily on the same level as Crisp. The only thing Anderson has on Crisp is arm strength and power. That's about it. Crisp would be an upgrade over BA. He's also a better option than the likes of Willy Taveras and Juan Pierre. He's also relatively cheap and Boston can expend him because they have Ellsbury. I'd say pull the trigger if it's reasonable.

I'm not a stat geek by any means. Just used simple stats to prove a point. I'd even go as far as saying Anderson and Crisp are close to equal in fielding. But it's at the plate where Anderson has totally lost me, and while he's certainly proved his worth as a defensive sub, I just don't see him all of a sudden gaining decent hitting instincts at the plate. He would get better with more playing time, but still not enough to start for an AL contender.

palehozenychicty
10-29-2008, 04:26 PM
Eeek. Please don't use range factor. Coco Crisp is an exceptional fielder, he had a plus/minus rating of +22 (he made 22 above-average plays) in center field in 2007. By just watching Anderson, I know that he's a very reliable, above-average fielder, but not necessarily on the same level as Crisp. The only thing Anderson has on Crisp is arm strength and power. That's about it. Crisp would be an upgrade over BA. He's also a better option than the likes of Willy Taveras and Juan Pierre. He's also relatively cheap and Boston can expend him because they have Ellsbury. I'd say pull the trigger if it's reasonable.


I think Crisp would work too, for the time being. He isn't ideal, but he'd be acceptable. We won't lose games because of him, but he could help us win with his speed and gap power. He does play CF very well also. The problem is that the team would have to give up value to get a quality CF. At the moment, the market for CF is quite small, so everyone will be at a high premium. Things can change.

Rockabilly
10-29-2008, 04:27 PM
what would the Red Sox want for Crisp...

spiffie
10-29-2008, 04:31 PM
I want whomever Kenny Williams puts out there. If he is excited about Anderson or Owens or Crisp or whomever, who the **** are we to question that?

decolores9628
10-29-2008, 04:36 PM
I want whomever Kenny Williams puts out there. If he is excited about Anderson or Owens or Crisp or whomever, who the **** are we to question that?


WSI!!!! Thats who we are!

I wouldnt mind seeing Crisp if he isn't too expensive.

Been a FOBA since 2006 (I don't know why either), so I would also like to see Anderson out there

kittle42
10-29-2008, 04:36 PM
Hopefully someone not on the roster right now.

Anderson is a 4th OF. While I would almost rather see him gone just to shut up half the board, he is very valuable in that role. As a starter? Not so much.

Dan Mega
10-29-2008, 04:38 PM
I want whomever Kenny Williams puts out there. If he is excited about Anderson or Owens or Crisp or whomever, who the **** are we to question that?

I TOTALLY agree with you again! The experts, armchair GM's, and other Sox "fans" don't seem to get that!

WhiteSox5187
10-29-2008, 04:40 PM
I TOTALLY agree with you again! The experts, armchair GM's, and other Sox "fans" don't seem to get that!
But honestly, that's what makes being a fan fun. If you just sit there and go "Well, Kenny will do what he will do," it's not very fun. It's fun to speculate.

palehozenychicty
10-29-2008, 04:44 PM
No, but a player that shows no improvement over the course of two years will never be good. The only thing Anderson has improved is his attitude. Otherwise, he's same the old good defense, terrible bat that he's been.

Here's something I don't get about Anderson and how he has so many supporters...Joe Crede had a better bat, and a great glove, but was absolutely hated by most. People wanted him out of town before 2005. Anderson has shown no major league potential, but the guy is a hero. How does that make sense?

I don't know if his bat was better. He was always uneven with the stick, but you remember the big moments. Even in 2006, his peak season, he pretty much disappeared in the second half. He was highly touted coming out of the minors as a future Mike Schmidt, but he could never make consistent adjustments on his swing. Also, Joe was given plenty of time to figure out his swing even though he did very little at the plate in 2001 and 2002. He started playing every day in 2003.

Anderson got a cup of coffee in 2005, half of 2006, and his poor attitude with injury cut out another year and a half. Then he played reasonably well on a part-time basis in 2008.

My conclusion is that the ire comes from the fact that Anderson hasn't received the same amount of time to figure himself out. Simple as that. I think he'd benefit going to another team that'll just pencil him in, then we can make an accurate judgement. But for anyone to say that he can't play after 497 career at-bats is silly.

turners56
10-29-2008, 04:46 PM
I'm not a stat geek by any means. Just used simple stats to prove a point. I'd even go as far as saying Anderson and Crisp are close to equal in fielding. But it's at the plate where Anderson has totally lost me, and while he's certainly proved his worth as a defensive sub, I just don't see him all of a sudden gaining decent hitting instincts at the plate. He would get better with more playing time, but still not enough to start for an AL contender.

Range Factor is pretty useless (even Bill James said that himself, and he made the stat up). It doesn't really prove much of anything. It is better to use for outfielders, but it still sucks.

If you ask me, Anderson's actually improved at the plate in terms of power. He slugged .420 this past season. That's pretty good. He still can't hit consistently though.

thedudeabides
10-29-2008, 04:49 PM
Hopefully someone not on the roster right now.

Anderson is a 4th OF. While I would almost rather see him gone just to shut up half the board, he is very valuable in that role. As a starter? Not so much.

I agree that it's pretty clear Brian is a 4th OF at this point. He has too many large holes in his swing.(Struggles with breaking pitches away and inside fastballs. A terrible combination) I'm not a big Greg Walker hater or anything, but does anyone have faith in him to again break down BA's swing and build him into an exceptable hitter? I don't. If the Sox upgrade at 2B and 3B, maybe. But, even then I would think someone would be brought in to platoon or compete for the job.

I don't know if Crisp is the answer, or even available for that matter. With Ellsbury's struggles at the end of the year, and in the playoffs, I would think Boston may very well keep him around. He was very valuable to them and when Coco and Ellsbury are both playing, Coco plays center. So, they obviously think he is the better CF'er. They certainly aren't going to just give him away for salary reasons. The Sox would certainly have to part with something fairly substantial. I don't see it happening.

hellview
10-29-2008, 05:25 PM
Mike Schmidt, but he could never make consistent adjustments on his swing.

Whoever put Mike Schmidt and Joe Crede in the same sentence should get stabbed in the neck.


Also, Joe was given plenty of time to figure out his swing even though he did very little at the plate in 2001 and 2002. He started playing every day in 2003.

Crede had 250 at bats in between 2001 and 2002. BA has had 600 at bats and yet to show anything with the bat.


Anderson got a cup of coffee in 2005, half of 2006, and his poor attitude with injury cut out another year and a half. Then he played reasonably well on a part-time basis in 2008.

BA hit .232/.272/.436 .709 OPS...that's not reasonable well at all.


My conclusion is that the ire comes from the fact that Anderson hasn't received the same amount of time to figure himself out.


HE'S HAD 600 MLB ATBATS AND HAS SHOWED NOTHING EXPECT A DECENT GLOVE!!!!!!!!!!

kittle42
10-29-2008, 05:29 PM
HE'S HAD 600 MLB ATBATS AND HAS SHOWED NOTHING EXPECT A DECENT GLOVE!!!!!!!!!!

You haven't been around here enough. Don't you know that every player is entitled to 1,000 ABs before he can even begin to be judged? :cool:

turners56
10-29-2008, 05:32 PM
Whoever put Mike Schmidt and Joe Crede in the same sentence should get stabbed in the neck.




Crede had 250 at bats in between 2001 and 2002. BA has had 600 at bats and yet to show anything with the bat.




BA hit .232/.272/.436 .709 OPS...that's not reasonable well at all.



HE'S HAD 600 MLB ATBATS AND HAS SHOWED NOTHING EXPECT A DECENT GLOVE!!!!!!!!!!

Tim McCarver said something similar back in the 05 Series.

He said, "Brooks Robinson, what are we watching here tonight?" when referring to Joe Crede. Oop, he compared Joe to a HOFer, stab him in the neck already.

hi im skot
10-29-2008, 05:33 PM
Tim McCarver said something similar back in the 05 Series.

He said, "Brooks Robinson, what are we watching here tonight?" when referring to Joe Crede. Oop, he compared Joe to a HOFer, stab him in the neck already.

Tim McCarver should be stabbed in the neck.

turners56
10-29-2008, 05:35 PM
Tim McCarver should be stabbed in the neck.

That's what I was trying to get at.

hellview
10-29-2008, 05:36 PM
Tim McCarver said something similar back in the 05 Series.

He said, "Brooks Robinson, what are we watching here tonight?" when referring to Joe Crede. Oop, he compared Joe to a HOFer, stab him in the neck already.

I'd stab Tom and Joe Buck at the same time if I could...worthless ass FOX crew.

hi im skot
10-29-2008, 05:41 PM
That's what I was trying to get at.

Right...but it's not because of his Crede/Robinson comparison.

:smile:

Tragg
10-29-2008, 06:09 PM
If it's not Anderson, then get a real hitter in CF. That would disqualify Coco Crisp.


It would be nice to have a leadoff hitter next year. We haven't had one since 05 and before then, c. 01

spiffie
10-29-2008, 09:39 PM
First off a healthy Joe Crede was rounding into being a player who could have had a career worthy of having his number being put on the OF wall. This guy had perennial Gold Glover with 280/35/100 written all over him before his back gave out.

Secondly, to WhiteSox5187 I agree speculation is fun. But when people start acting like pseudo-GM's and throwing around all sorts of +22 and 1.80 Range Factor and -3.45 NARGLEWOOP and 6^3 GOOTBD (that is the Get Out Of The Basement, Dork stat) it just gets ridiculous. Have faith in the best GM in baseball, and know that he'll take care of things.

Daver
10-29-2008, 09:43 PM
I just hope Brian gets traded ASAP because I am tired of this discussion.

Frater Perdurabo
10-29-2008, 09:45 PM
I just hope Brian gets traded ASAP because I am tired of this discussion.

Can't we just trade all the haters instead? :tongue:

btrain929
10-29-2008, 09:45 PM
First off a healthy Joe Crede was rounding into being a player who could have had a career worthy of having his number being put on the OF wall. This guy had perennial Gold Glover with 280/35/100 written all over him before his back gave out.

Secondly, to WhiteSox5187 I agree speculation is fun. But when people start acting like pseudo-GM's and throwing around all sorts of +22 and 1.80 Range Factor and -3.45 NARGLEWOOP and 6^3 GOOTBD (that is the Get Out Of The Basement, Dork stat) it just gets ridiculous. Have faith in the best GM in baseball, and know that he'll take care of things.

LOL, no, he didn't.

kittle42
10-29-2008, 11:57 PM
I just hope Brian gets traded ASAP because I am tired of this discussion.

1,000,000 Strong for Trading Brian Anderson.

gr8mexico
10-30-2008, 12:44 AM
I vote for Randy Winn ( Giants )
Paul Konerko for Randy Winn
Make it happend KW


1. Randy Winn CF
2. Orlando Hudson 2B
3. Carlos Quentin LF
4. Jim Thome DH
5. Jermaine Dye RF
6. Alexei Ramirez SS
7. A.J C
8. Josh Fields 3B
9. Nick Swisher 1B

Rockabilly
10-30-2008, 12:58 AM
I vote for Randy Winn ( Giants )
Paul Konerko for Randy Winn
Make it happend KW


1. Randy Winn CF
2. Orlando Hudson 2B
3. Carlos Quentin LF
4. Jim Thome DH
5. Jermaine Dye RF
6. Alexei Ramirez SS
7. A.J C
8. Josh Fields 3B
9. Nick Swisher 1B


this lineup the Sox would finished in 3rd place

gr8mexico
10-30-2008, 01:22 AM
this lineup the Sox would finished in 3rd place
Explain why? Oh because you said so never mind

Rockabilly
10-30-2008, 01:49 AM
Explain why? Oh because you said so never mind


where is the speed at on your team

Fields is bad at 3rd base

I live part of the year in SF.. Winn sucks in CF that is why the Giants moved him to RF

Rockabilly
10-30-2008, 02:15 AM
my team would be

1 Chone Figgins 3B ( Konerko traded)
2 Nate Mclouth CF ( Poerda, Fields and Anderson traded)
3 Carlos Quentin LF
4 Bobby Abreu RF ( free agent)
5 Jim Thome DH
6 Nick Swisher 1B
7 Alexei Ramirez 2B
8 AJ Pierzynski C
9 Rafeal Furcal SS ( free agent)

Dye was traded for a top starter

jabrch
10-30-2008, 02:43 AM
I just hope Brian gets traded ASAP because I am tired of this discussion.

You think trading him would end this discussion?

jabrch
10-30-2008, 02:46 AM
Paul Konerko for Randy Winn


San Fran would LOVE that. KW would laugh at them if they proposed it. Thats silly.

hellview
10-30-2008, 08:05 AM
my team would be

1 Chone Figgins 3B ( Konerko traded)
2 Nate Mclouth CF ( Poerda, Fields and Anderson traded)
3 Carlos Quentin LF
4 Bobby Abreu RF ( free agent)
5 Jim Thome DH
6 Nick Swisher 1B
7 Alexei Ramirez 2B
8 AJ Pierzynski C
9 Rafeal Furcal SS ( free agent)

Dye was traded for a top starter

Hahahahahahaha...turn off the video game son.

Bucky F. Dent
10-30-2008, 08:15 AM
Hopefully someone not on the roster right now.

Anderson is a 4th OF. While I would almost rather see him gone just to shut up half the board, he is very valuable in that role. As a starter? Not so much.

I agree with Kitty. Kenny needs to bring some new life into this offense, and bringing a speed/OBP guy into the center field spot is a prime way to do that.

I love BA's reformed attitude, but he's our late inning defensive replacement, and little more.

Eddo144
10-30-2008, 09:05 AM
I vote for Randy Winn ( Giants )
Paul Konerko for Randy Winn
Make it happend KW


1. Randy Winn CF
2. Orlando Hudson 2B
3. Carlos Quentin LF
4. Jim Thome DH
5. Jermaine Dye RF
6. Alexei Ramirez SS
7. A.J C
8. Josh Fields 3B
9. Nick Swisher 1B
Wow, just wow. You trade an aging, yet still productive, first baseman for an aging fourth outfielder? And then you hit the fourth outfielder leadoff?

Why is everyone obsessed with getting a "true leadoff" hitter? If I were a manager, I would take my four best hitters (for the Sox, Quetin, Dye, Thome, Ramirez at the moment) and hit them first through fourth in some combination.

Hopefully, the Sox acquire someone like Figgins or Hudson or Roberts who can bump Ramirez or Thome from that list of four and hit leadoff. But I sure as hell wouldn't give Randy Winn, who would be the seventh or eight best hitter in that lineup, the most plate appearances. We already lived through that this year with Cabrera.

FarmerAndy
10-30-2008, 09:31 AM
I guess you missed 2006...

Getting the opening day start doesn't equate to getting a real shot at the full-time job.

Anderson was young, he didn't come out and light it up right away. But a young player doesn't develope by sitting out 3 or 4 games a week. But right from the get go Anderson was on a very tight leash, constantly being benched in favor of Rob Mackowiak, who Ozzie eventually left in there as the everyday CF.

Look, I don't think Brian Anderson in the second coming of Christ. I'm not saying he's sure thing if he gets the chance. And I'm certainly not opposed to him being on the bench as a 4th OF if the Sox get a true solid centerfielder. I just don't see why Ozzie seems to favor trotting hacks out into CF over giving BA a true shot at it. That's all.

palehozenychicty
10-30-2008, 09:53 AM
Getting the opening day start doesn't equate to getting a real shot at the full-time job.

Anderson was young, he didn't come out and light it up right away. But a young player doesn't develope by sitting out 3 or 4 games a week. But right from the get go Anderson was on a very tight leash, constantly being benched in favor of Rob Mackowiak, who Ozzie eventually left in there as the everyday CF.

Look, I don't think Brian Anderson in the second coming of Christ. I'm not saying he's sure thing if he gets the chance. And I'm certainly not opposed to him being on the bench as a 4th OF if the Sox get a true solid centerfielder. I just don't see why Ozzie seems to favor trotting hacks out into CF over giving BA a true shot at it. That's all.


That is my argument.

palehozenychicty
10-30-2008, 10:04 AM
Whoever put Mike Schmidt and Joe Crede in the same sentence should get stabbed in the neck.




Crede had 250 at bats in between 2001 and 2002. BA has had 600 at bats and yet to show anything with the bat.




BA hit .232/.272/.436 .709 OPS...that's not reasonable well at all.



HE'S HAD 600 MLB ATBATS AND HAS SHOWED NOTHING EXPECT A DECENT GLOVE!!!!!!!!!!


If you go back to the beginning of the decade, when Crede came through the system, he received tons of accolades and was our premier position prospect. It's nothing more than hype, as we know, but people predicted that Crede could reach that level in time. He never came remotely close. I mention that in my previous statement. Yes, Crede had 250 at-bats between '01 and '02, didn't show much, and was given the job full-time in '03, where in 536 at bats, he his .261/.308/.433 with an OPS of 92. Therefore, Crede had 736 at-bats to demonstrate that his only value to the team was with the glove and "clutch" moments. How is Anderson different from that? He's had clutch hits himself with the bat and glove in limited playing time while hitting rather poorly on a consistent basis.

Look, I get it. You think that Anderson sucks, and don't like him and the scenario. It's all good. Just don't tell me that he's had the same opportunity, cause the numbers prove otherwise.

I don't think he'll be a perennial All-Star or a batting champion, but I believe that in time, he'll help a team win by playing consistently.

hellview
10-30-2008, 10:14 AM
Look, I don't think Brian Anderson in the second coming of Christ. I'm not saying he's sure thing if he gets the chance. And I'm certainly not opposed to him being on the bench as a 4th OF if the Sox get a true solid centerfielder. I just don't see why Ozzie seems to favor trotting hacks out into CF over giving BA a true shot at it. That's all.

What part of 600 MLB at-bats do you not understand, he's been given every chance to be a starter and he's done nothing to justify him the starting lineup every day. After he bombed in 2006 he opened 2007 in the minors and wasw garbage there too.

He's not a every day player...move the **** on.

russ99
10-30-2008, 10:51 AM
my team would be

1 Chone Figgins 3B ( Konerko traded)
2 Nate Mclouth CF ( Poerda, Fields and Anderson traded)
3 Carlos Quentin LF
4 Bobby Abreu RF ( free agent)
5 Jim Thome DH
6 Nick Swisher 1B
7 Alexei Ramirez 2B
8 AJ Pierzynski C
9 Rafeal Furcal SS ( free agent)Hahahahahahaha...turn off the video game son.

Well, that's not so far off, but we'd need to include another good prospect or two, maybe Shelby, JR. and another decent pitching prospect, instead of Anderson (who's well beyond prospect status and has a low trade value) to get McLouth.

Figgins for Konerko is still a possibility, however unlikely it looks. It will depend on if Anaheim can re-sign Teixiera. I still think the D-backs are the likely trading partner for Paul.

My "video game" moment is more about having additional payroll to sign both Furcal and Abreu. :D:

hellview
10-30-2008, 11:02 AM
Well, that's not so far off, but we'd need to include another good prospect or two, maybe Shelby, JR. and another decent pitching prospect, instead of Anderson (who's well beyond prospect status and has a low trade value) to get McLouth.

Figgins for Konerko is still a possibility, however unlikely it looks. It will depend on if Anaheim can re-sign Teixiera. I still think the D-backs are the likely trading partner for Paul.


So Fields who has no business playing any position outside of 1b or DH and really hasn't shown much with the bat. Poreda who's pretty much a loogy unless he magically learns to throw breaking balls and random junk is gonna get a young, cheap CF who's coming into his own?

I don't know where this Figgins for Konerko talk started but it needs to end.

Rockabilly
10-30-2008, 11:06 AM
Well, that's not so far off, but we'd need to include another good prospect or two, maybe Shelby, JR. and another decent pitching prospect, instead of Anderson (who's well beyond prospect status and has a low trade value) to get McLouth.

Figgins for Konerko is still a possibility, however unlikely it looks. It will depend on if Anaheim can re-sign Teixiera. I still think the D-backs are the likely trading partner for Paul.

My "video game" moment is more about having additional payroll to sign both Furcal and Abreu. :D:


Sox would save money by trading Konerko and Dye to sign Furcal and Abreu..

As far as Mclouth goes the Pirates are talking about trading him this off season.. he would be a great pickup for KW..

Rockabilly
10-30-2008, 11:11 AM
So Fields who has no business playing any position outside of 1b or DH and really hasn't shown much with the bat. Poreda who's pretty much a loogy unless he magically learns to throw breaking balls and random junk is gonna get a young, cheap CF who's coming into his own?

I don't know where this Figgins for Konerko talk started but it needs to end.


Figgins for Konerko started in CA last year and is still be talking about through the Chicago as well as the CA media.

Poerda is going to be a great pitcher in a few years.. When Fields is healthy like he was in 07 he had a good half season with the Sox

Craig Grebeck
10-30-2008, 11:16 AM
McLouth is a corner outfielder playing CF. He should not be out there. Also, he will not be traded here and there's no way I give up Poreda for a corner OF.

kittle42
10-30-2008, 11:19 AM
my team would be

1 Chone Figgins 3B ( Konerko traded)
2 Nate Mclouth CF ( Poerda, Fields and Anderson traded)
3 Carlos Quentin LF
4 Bobby Abreu RF ( free agent)
5 Jim Thome DH
6 Nick Swisher 1B
7 Alexei Ramirez 2B
8 AJ Pierzynski C
9 Rafeal Furcal SS ( free agent)

Dye was traded for a top starter

I vote for Randy Winn ( Giants )
Paul Konerko for Randy Winn
Make it happend KW


Are you two related?

longtimesoxguy
10-30-2008, 11:26 AM
Brain Anderson. Give him the job today!!!!!!!!!!!!

FarmerAndy
10-30-2008, 11:30 AM
What part of 600 MLB at-bats do you not understand,

I understand that saying 600 MLB at-bats all by itself sounds compelling.

If I say I had 12 beers and I was drunk, it sounds logical. If I say I had 12 beers over the course of a month, then I haven't really offered any proof that I was ever drunk. (This is where you can insert your joke about how I must be drunk now.)


Again - I HAVE WANTED THE WHITE SOX TO GET A SOLID CENTER FIELDER. I STILL WANT THE SOX TO GO OUT AND GET A SOLID CENTERFILEDER, A BETTER OPTION THAN BRIAN ANDERSON. The context of my argument for BA is based of the reality of what we have had to work with over the past 3 years. I'd rather play a young solid defender who may have some upside as opposed to your Ken Griffey Jr.'s or Rob Mackowiaks. I don't see what is so hard to understand about that.

If you prefer somebody like a 50-year-old Griffey playing CF, then you are entitled to your opinion.

I'll get the f*** over it when the Sox get a real center fielder. Until then, I believe in playing the best option that you currently have, which often times has been Anderson.

kittle42
10-30-2008, 12:05 PM
I'll get the f*** over it when the Sox get a real center fielder. Until then, I believe in playing the best option that you currently have, which often times has been Anderson.

This is a sound argument.

kittle42
10-30-2008, 12:06 PM
Brain Anderson. Give him the job today!!!!!!!!!!!!

He's well-suited to the job he already has.

areilly
10-30-2008, 12:21 PM
Darrin Erstad. Dude knows how to play the game the right way.

PalehosePlanet
10-30-2008, 12:27 PM
Sox would save money by trading Konerko and Dye to sign Furcal and Abreu..

As far as Mclouth goes the Pirates are talking about trading him this off season.. he would be a great pickup for KW..

If we deal with the Pirates I'd much rather go after Ian Snell who is coming off of a bad year and maybe now can be had for a reasonable price. The Pirates in this case would be selling low and that scenario would absolutely play into KW's buy-low MO.

McLouth is just the opposite and would cost way too much.

hellview
10-30-2008, 12:32 PM
Figgins for Konerko started in CA last year and is still be talking about through the Chicago as well as the CA media.

Poerda is going to be a great pitcher in a few years.. When Fields is healthy like he was in 07 he had a good half season with the Sox

Fields isn't good, I know people get wet looking at the 23 homers. But he hit .244/.308.480 .788OPS that's not good for a 3b. Throw in the fact that he's a butcher in the field he doesn't have a ton of vaule.

As for Poerda he's a bullpen arm, he's not a starter cause he doesn't have the pitch selection to pitch 6-7 innings.

So you talking about a DH/1b in Fields and a bullpen arm for McColth....there isn't a chance in hell the Pirates would even consider that deal.

Madscout
10-30-2008, 12:45 PM
Darrin Erstad. Dude knows how to play the game the right way.
That's in teal, right? Otherwise...

Darrin Erstad. Dude knows how to play the game the right way.

Fixed it for ya.

Madscout
10-30-2008, 12:47 PM
If we deal with the Pirates I'd much rather go after Ian Snell who is coming off of a bad year and maybe now can be had for a reasonable price. The Pirates in this case would be selling low and that scenario would absolutely play into KW's buy-low MO.

McLouth is just the opposite and would cost way too much.

As someone who's seen Snell pitch, you don't want him, or any of the pitchers that come out of the Pirates system. They can't throw strikes to save their lives, and if you watched this WS at all, you know what happens when you do that.

palehozenychicty
10-30-2008, 12:59 PM
As someone who's seen Snell pitch, you don't want him, or any of the pitchers that come out of the Pirates system. They can't throw strikes to save their lives, and if you watched this WS at all, you know what happens when you do that.

Yeah, he's intriguing, but when your weakness is throwing strikes as a starter.

Tragg
10-30-2008, 01:06 PM
I just don't see why Ozzie seems to favor trotting hacks out into CF over giving BA a true shot at it. That's all.
Exactly.
I think some of it has to do with Ozzie's ability to evaluate talent.
I hope he gets a real offensive coach added to his staff soon.

Craig Grebeck
10-30-2008, 01:07 PM
Fields isn't good, I know people get wet looking at the 23 homers. But he hit .244/.308.480 .788OPS that's not good for a 3b. Throw in the fact that he's a butcher in the field he doesn't have a ton of vaule.

As for Poerda he's a bullpen arm, he's not a starter cause he doesn't have the pitch selection to pitch 6-7 innings.

So you talking about a DH/1b in Fields and a bullpen arm for McColth....there isn't a chance in hell the Pirates would even consider that deal.
I don't agree at all with your Poreda statement. Do you have any basis for it?

Who the hell is McColth?

hellview
10-30-2008, 01:13 PM
I don't agree at all with your Poreda statement. Do you have any basis for it?

Who the hell is McColth?

Dude every report I've ever read on Poreda says the guy doesn't have a breaking ball he can consistantly throw over the plate.


White Sox left-hander Aaron Poreda worked out of the pen, with two one-inning stints this week. He sat at 91-96 mph in his first outing and 93-96 in the second, showing big sink at the lower end of his range and late life on the four-seamers up toward 96. He barely used his slider -- which is odd, since that has to be the main developmental priority for him -- and showed one that was very sharp with good tilt, with the others more fringe-average; they started their break early enough for a big-league hitter to pick them up.


From Keith Law's blog

PalehosePlanet
10-30-2008, 01:15 PM
As someone who's seen Snell pitch, you don't want him, or any of the pitchers that come out of the Pirates system. They can't throw strikes to save their lives, and if you watched this WS at all, you know what happens when you do that.

C'mon Mad you don't think a guy with Snell's stuff can be fixed by Coop or an equally solid pitching coach? Often times control problems can be something as simple as a hitch in the delivery, or a plan of attack where he is throwing to many breaking pitches early in the count and falling behind.

I understand your concerns, but a guy with his stuff/talent is worth taking a chance on if the price isn't too steep IMO.

Craig Grebeck
10-30-2008, 01:17 PM
Dude every report I've ever read on Poreda says the guy doesn't have a breaking ball he can consistantly throw over the plate.



From Keith Law's blog
So you're citing a Keith Law blog on his first appearance in the AFL, in which he pitched one inning and threw not very many pitches. Okay.

hellview
10-30-2008, 01:24 PM
So you're citing a Keith Law blog on his first appearance in the AFL, in which he pitched one inning and threw not very many pitches. Okay.

Here's a link about him from the draft...the guy has no breaking pitches.


http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/events/draft_report/y2007/index.jsp?mc=poreda

Give me a minute, I'll find more.

Craig Grebeck
10-30-2008, 01:25 PM
Here's a link about him from the draft...the guy has no breaking pitches.


http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/events/draft_report/y2007/index.jsp?mc=poreda

Give me a minute, I'll find more.
I still don't understand your point. His "not having a breaking pitch" hasn't really hurt him so far. You're citing a draft report. That couldn't possibly be less up to date.

russ99
10-30-2008, 01:35 PM
Fields isn't good, I know people get wet looking at the 23 homers. But he hit .244/.308.480 .788OPS that's not good for a 3b. Throw in the fact that he's a butcher in the field he doesn't have a ton of vaule.

As for Poerda he's a bullpen arm, he's not a starter cause he doesn't have the pitch selection to pitch 6-7 innings.

So you talking about a DH/1b in Fields and a bullpen arm for McColth....there isn't a chance in hell the Pirates would even consider that deal.

Look at Adam Dunn for proof that proven major league power with bad fielding, marginal average and tons of strikeouts has a lot of value in this league. And Fields had his 23 HRs in 373 AB last year against major league pitching. He doesn't yet have the value of Dunn, but he does have value.

I'm not saying Fields and Poreda will get it done alone for McLouth, but the Pirates are well known to sell a bit on the low side.

hellview
10-30-2008, 01:40 PM
Look at Adam Dunn for proof that proven major league power with bad fielding, marginal average and tons of strikeouts has a lot of value in this league. And Fields had his 23 HRs in 373 AB last year against major league pitching. He doesn't yet have the value of Dunn, but he does have value.

I'm not saying Fields and Poreda will get it done alone, but the Pirates are well known to sell a bit on the low side.

Adam Dunn also walks 100 times a season, Fields has never seen a pitch he couldn't hack at.

thedudeabides
10-30-2008, 01:42 PM
I still don't understand your point. His "not having a breaking pitch" hasn't really hurt him so far. You're citing a draft report. That couldn't possibly be less up to date.

Not to mention he has only one full year in the minors. I agree, he is not ready to be an MLB starter yet, but it's way to early to say he can't be a major league starter becaus he doesn't have a solid breaking pitch right now. That's the whole point of the minors, you develop. He has a very live arm with natural sink and pretty good control at this point. That's very good for a guy at his level. With that, all you need is an average breaking pitch or changeup. Which will come in time.

areilly
10-30-2008, 01:45 PM
That's in teal, right? Otherwise...

Darrin Erstad. Dude knows how to play the game the right way.

Fixed it for ya.

It's not impossible. I don't want to see it, but my gut says we'll see an Erstad clone (if not Erstad himself) starting out there next April.

TheVulture
10-30-2008, 01:46 PM
Yes, Crede had 250 at-bats between '01 and '02, didn't show much, and was given the job full-time in '03, where in 536 at bats, he his .261/.308/.433 with an OPS of 92. Therefore, Crede had 736 at-bats to demonstrate that his only value to the team was with the glove and "clutch" moments. How is Anderson different from that?

Crede -'02 age 24 - 208 PA .285/.311/.515 also played 95 games at AAA, hit .312 with 24 HRs. So he hit 36 homers and over .300 between MLB and AAA that year.

BA -'08 age 25 - 191 PA .232/.272/.436. Year before at AAA hit .255 with 8 HRs and .118 with 7 Ks in 17 ABs in the majors.

hellview
10-30-2008, 02:17 PM
I still don't understand your point. His "not having a breaking pitch" hasn't really hurt him so far. You're citing a draft report. That couldn't possibly be less up to date.

Yeah, because only having 1 good pitch has MLB success written all over it.

I would bet any amount of money that Aaron's long-term role in the majors will be as a relief pitcher.

Daver
10-30-2008, 02:41 PM
Yeah, because only having 1 good pitch has MLB success written all over it.

I would bet any amount of money that Aaron's long-term role in the majors will be as a relief pitcher.

Randy Johnson got by with it for a couple years till he mastered the slider.

thedudeabides
10-30-2008, 02:43 PM
Yeah, because only having 1 good pitch has MLB success written all over it.

I would bet any amount of money that Aaron's long-term role in the majors will be as a relief pitcher.

Again, what makes you think he can't develop another pitch? He has a slider and it needs to improve. It can over time.

Craig Grebeck
10-30-2008, 02:43 PM
Yeah, because only having 1 good pitch has MLB success written all over it.

I would bet any amount of money that Aaron's long-term role in the majors will be as a relief pitcher.
And you're basing this off of what exactly? He certainly hasn't struggled to this point.

kittle42
10-30-2008, 02:50 PM
And you're basing this off of what exactly? He certainly hasn't struggled to this point.

You have to admit things change once you face MLB hitters on a consistent basis.

Craig Grebeck
10-30-2008, 02:54 PM
You have to admit things change once you face MLB hitters on a consistent basis.
Of course. I'd just like to for hellview to present something resembling solid evidence of this "Poreda possesses nothing but a fastball!" tripe. He's not exactly bowling me over with year-old college scouting reports or a snippet from a Keith Law blog.

The fact is, I see no reason not to hold hope for a six foot, six inch lefty who is good at missing bats and at keeping the ball on the ground. I'm not going to follow the herd and proclaim that he's a reliever-in-waiting based on this **** evidence.

champagne030
10-30-2008, 03:16 PM
Of course. I'd just like to for hellview to present something resembling solid evidence of this "Poreda possesses nothing but a fastball!" tripe. He's not exactly bowling me over with year-old college scouting reports or a snippet from a Keith Law blog.

The fact is, I see no reason not to hold hope for a six foot, six inch lefty who is good at missing bats and at keeping the ball on the ground. I'm not going to follow the herd and proclaim that he's a reliever-in-waiting based on this **** evidence.

What evidence do you have that's different from all these one year old scouting reports? He's got one plus pitch, one average and, well, um, nothing. And it'll be pretty hard to develop another pitch considering his arm angle. He loses all effectiveness on his fastball if he comes over the top.

thedudeabides
10-30-2008, 03:26 PM
What evidence do you have that's different from all these one year old scouting reports? He's got one plus pitch, one average and, well, um, nothing. And it'll be pretty hard to develop another pitch considering his arm angle. He loses all effectiveness on his fastball if he comes over the top.

His arm angle is perfectly conducive to throwing a slider, and possibly a changeup. It just may take him a while to develop these pitches. Most really tall pitchers take longer to develop because it is more difficult to repeat their delivery.

I don't see why anyone can say at this point he can't develop another pitch. He already throws a slider, it's just inconsistent. If it was a plus pitch already, there would be talk of him being in the rotation next year. Since it's not, he will continue to work on it or go to the bullpen if the Sox need him on the big club next year.

Whether or not he develops his secondary pitches is yet to be seen. It's just premature to say he can't do it and he's banished to the bullpen as a one pitch pitcher for his career.

hellview
10-30-2008, 03:31 PM
What evidence do you have that's different from all these one year old scouting reports? He's got one plus pitch, one average and, well, um, nothing. And it'll be pretty hard to develop another pitch considering his arm angle. He loses all effectiveness on his fastball if he comes over the top.

Thank you...I'd also like to mention that his delivery is ugly as hell. Here's a nice THT acrticle.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/breaking-down-the-drafts-1st-round-picks-21-30/

thedudeabides
10-30-2008, 03:44 PM
Thank you...I'd also like to mention that his delivery is ugly as hell. Here's a nice THT acrticle.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/breaking-down-the-drafts-1st-round-picks-21-30/


In this report, which is another draft report, it even admits it might be earlier in the year? They don't even know. His two predictions were that his velocity would go down, nope. And his arm would be shredded, nope.

Have you been following his progress in the Sox system? Have you seen him pitch?

His delivery has been altered and he is coming along well. I'm sorry, these are old baseless reports where a guy looked at a quick clip he didn't even know when it was from. The book is still out on Poreda, but I can assure you there are plenty of teams that would love to have him in their system. Which is how the topic got brought up.

champagne030
10-30-2008, 04:29 PM
His arm angle is perfectly conducive to throwing a slider, and possibly a changeup. It just may take him a while to develop these pitches. Most really tall pitchers take longer to develop because it is more difficult to repeat their delivery.


His arm angle is conducive to throwing a slider, but it is not for a changeup or anything offspeed. He'll need to make that slider a plus plus pitch if he's going to be a starter for us with only two pitches. And then he's going to need perfect control with his fastball too.

turners56
10-30-2008, 04:35 PM
First off a healthy Joe Crede was rounding into being a player who could have had a career worthy of having his number being put on the OF wall. This guy had perennial Gold Glover with 280/35/100 written all over him before his back gave out.

Secondly, to WhiteSox5187 I agree speculation is fun. But when people start acting like pseudo-GM's and throwing around all sorts of +22 and 1.80 Range Factor and -3.45 NARGLEWOOP and 6^3 GOOTBD (that is the Get Out Of The Basement, Dork stat) it just gets ridiculous. Have faith in the best GM in baseball, and know that he'll take care of things.

He had one year where he got close to those numbers. Otherwise, he's been nothing more than an average offensive player. He never won a gold glove even though he deserved one in 05 and 06. Joe Crede is a good player, not great. He did not belong and should not belong on the wall along with Lyons, Minoso, Fox, and etc. He's solid on defense and a very average hitter with good power. He's streaky and he has health problems. I doubt he will be able to put up his 2006 numbers again due to his health problems and I doubt he would of been a perennial 35 home run man, too.

And about the stats thing, they're nothing more than something to qualify a point. You can take them seriously or not take them seriously. But the point is, GMs look at stats. Maybe not those stats, but they take a look at certain sabermetric stats that they favor. I know that Kenny isn't Billy Beane, but in order for any GM to succeed, he has to recognize that stats are a very important part of the game and that most of them do indeed tell a true story about a player. I personally think that a GM's mindset should be half statistic and half gut feeling. If you go overboard with either one, you're not going to do all that well.

Craig Grebeck
10-30-2008, 05:13 PM
Thank you...I'd also like to mention that his delivery is ugly as hell. Here's a nice THT acrticle.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/breaking-down-the-drafts-1st-round-picks-21-30/
1. This video was out of date.
2. Gomez is a complete hack for using that video. It's amazing it's still on THT.
3. Poreda has significantly changed his motion since then and is no longer making the same type of mistakes in the video.

Please, find something remotely recent not written by Phil Rogers or based on 20 or so pitches thrown in an AFL game.
In this report, which is another draft report, it even admits it might be earlier in the year? They don't even know. His two predictions were that his velocity would go down, nope. And his arm would be shredded, nope.

Have you been following his progress in the Sox system? Have you seen him pitch?

His delivery has been altered and he is coming along well. I'm sorry, these are old baseless reports where a guy looked at a quick clip he didn't even know when it was from. The book is still out on Poreda, but I can assure you there are plenty of teams that would love to have him in their system. Which is how the topic got brought up.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
What evidence do you have that's different from all these one year old scouting reports? He's got one plus pitch, one average and, well, um, nothing. And it'll be pretty hard to develop another pitch considering his arm angle. He loses all effectiveness on his fastball if he comes over the top.

I'm not the one making bets of "any amount of money" that Poreda will become a relief pitcher. My position is that hellview doesn't know nearly enough information to make such a proclamation. People take **** like this as gospel and run with it. Hell, he just posted a link that has become a joke on White Sox blogs to defend his point.