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View Full Version : Was trading Manny the right move for Boston?


Fenway
10-22-2008, 02:23 PM
Boston media and fans have been discussing the end results of trading Manny at the end of July.

Obviously if Manny had played the way he did for LA for the Red Sox they may have won the division and be playing in the World Series.

But Francona has hinted he was convinced Manny was going to shut himself down had he stayed in Boston.

Many believe Boras told Manny to quit so Boston would tear up the option for 2009.

hellview
10-22-2008, 02:26 PM
No the hell cares about this subject that isn't a RSN mouthbreather?

MUsoxfan
10-22-2008, 02:27 PM
He would've remained little more than a fat sack of **** if he stayed in Boston. It was amazing to see how great the guy can play when there's a new contract involved somewhere.

palehozenychicty
10-22-2008, 02:29 PM
I think that he would've played and put up his norms, but the clubhouse was getting tainted and the playoffs may not have even happened.

hi im skot
10-22-2008, 02:32 PM
No the hell cares about this subject that isn't a RSN mouthbreather?

:?:

Then don't read the damn thread.

cbrownson13
10-22-2008, 02:34 PM
Boston media and fans have been discussing the end results of trading Manny at the end of July.

Obviously if Manny had played the way he did for LA for the Red Sox they may have won the division and be playing in the World Series.

But Francona has hinted he was convinced Manny was going to shut himself down had he stayed in Boston.

Many believe Boras told Manny to quit so Boston would tear up the option for 2009.

I wouldn't assume this. The Rays pounded the Sawx the first couple of games of that series. Manny can put up numbers, but he can't be responsible for 3-4 runs a game. Plus none of us know if that clubhouse would have had a complete meltdown with him there.

MUsoxfan
10-22-2008, 02:36 PM
Manny can put up numbers

If he chooses to.

RKMeibalane
10-22-2008, 02:44 PM
It was the right move. I don't know why the media insists on questioning it because the Red Sox aren't in the World Series. Tampa Bay was, ultimately, the superior team.

Manny presence may have made a difference, but there's no guarantee that he would have produced at the rate that he did for the Dodgers had he remained in Boston. He didn't want to play for the Red Sox anymore, an attitude that he displayed by not running out ground balls, rolling around in the outfield, and picking fights with teammates and team officials. It's also worth mentioning that his new team didn't reach the World Series, either.

Had Ramirez remained in Boston, it's possible that the media would be questioning why he wasn't traded, citing this as the reason for Boston's inability to advance. There is always an excuse where the Red Sox are concerned. The media needs get over it and accept that the Tampa Bay Rays earned the right to play in the World Series, and stop looking reasons to justify why their beloved Red Sox are spending their time on the golf course.

Edit: I remember 2004 well: I'm sure most people do. I had thought that finally winning the World Series would be good for Boston, because they would finally stop feeling sorry for themselves and start behaving like normal baseball fans, but that hasn't happened. Winning two World Series has actually made Red Sox fans even more unbearable than before. Now, they act as though they're entitled to a World Championship, and if for some reason they don't win, they'll search for any and all excuses to explain why. It's sickening, and it's getting worse with each passing day.

soxpride724
10-22-2008, 02:55 PM
Considering he was giving up on the team early in the year it was probably for the better of the team.

Sox4ever77
10-22-2008, 03:02 PM
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f150/titanczar/deargod1.jpg

RKMeibalane
10-22-2008, 03:06 PM
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f150/titanczar/deargod1.jpg

It's never going to stop. The media enjoy the endless masturbation that writing about the Red Sox entails, and Red Sox nation is more than happy to provide the necessary lubricant.

Sox4ever77
10-22-2008, 03:15 PM
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f150/titanczar/Joba.jpg

hi im skot
10-22-2008, 03:40 PM
Ugh.

Sox4ever77
10-22-2008, 03:45 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_BpMgNcZq53c/SP0fMxXpMWI/AAAAAAAABZo/eXoOO_Vl3rc/s1600-h/espn_memo.jpg

hi im skot
10-22-2008, 03:52 PM
This (perfectly-reasonable) thread needs more dumb pictures and links.

whitesoxwilkes
10-22-2008, 04:22 PM
Like it or not, the Manny to the Dodgers trade was probably the biggest blockbuster in baseball this season.

This forum is TALKING BASEBALL. You don't like it, don't read it.

PKalltheway
10-22-2008, 04:28 PM
I'd say that it was definitely the right move for Boston. They got a solid return in Jason Bay, and they didn't have to put up with Manny's bull**** anymore.

I don't think Manny being on the Red Sox would have made a difference on whether or not they would have made the World Series. I think that Tampa was just the better team. Also, remember that Manny was putting up those ridiculous numbers in the second half not only because he is an outstanding hitter (a first ballot Hall of Famer IMHO), but because he was playing in the atrocious NL West as well.

With how much Manny tore up the NL in the second half this year, I'd really consider staying with the Dodgers if I were him.

DoItForDanPasqua
10-22-2008, 04:35 PM
The real question is, would Boston have won the pennant or World Series if they still had Manny?

I think it's reasonable to speculate that they could have won one of the four they lost to Tampa if Ramirez was on the team. He has had a history of performing well in the postseason and this year, with Los Angeles, was no exception.

With that, I would have put Boston as pretty heavy favorites against the Phillies in the World Series. Boston obviously has the experience and I think it is much tougher playing in the American League.

SOXPHILE
10-22-2008, 04:35 PM
It was the right move. I don't know why the media insists on questioning it because the Red Sox aren't in the World Series. Tampa Bay was, ultimately, the superior team.

Manny presence may have made a difference, but there's no guarantee that he would have produced at the rate that he did for the Dodgers had he remained in Boston. He didn't want to play for the Red Sox anymore, an attitude that he displayed by not running out ground balls, rolling around in the outfield, and picking fights with teammates and team officials. It's also worth mentioning that his new team didn't reach the World Series, either.

Had Ramirez remained in Boston, it's possible that the media would be questioning why he wasn't traded, citing this as the reason for Boston's inability to advance. There is always an excuse where the Red Sox are concerned. The media needs get over it and accept that the Tampa Bay Rays earned the right to play in the World Series, and stop looking reasons to justify why their beloved Red Sox are spending their time on the golf course.

Edit: I remember 2004 well: I'm sure most people do. I had thought that finally winning the World Series would be good for Boston, because they would finally stop feeling sorry for themselves and start behaving like normal baseball fans, but that hasn't happened. Winning two World Series has actually made Red Sox fans even more unbearable than before. Now, they act as though they're entitled to a World Championship, and if for some reason they don't win, they'll search for any and all excuses to explain why. It's sickening, and it's getting worse with each passing day.

EXACTLY what I've been thinking. They DID trade him. He's gone Boston. Move on. The "what if's" and "if only's" that have been going on non-stop around this are ridiculous. Neither the Red Sox nor the Dodgers won the pennant. Sorry ESPN and national media, you don't have your dream World Series of Cubs-Red Sox, or Dodgers-Red Sox.

voodoochile
10-22-2008, 04:52 PM
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f150/titanczar/deargod1.jpg

You got it...

spiffie
10-22-2008, 05:00 PM
It is a tragic thing that Boston felt that it was necessary to make the Manny deal. A beloved member of the 2-time World Series winners, and a player who came to define the renaissance of the Red Sox from perennial runner-up into budding dynasty should never have to leave under such egregious circumstances. To attempt to cast blame just seems pointless. This was a sad thing for all sides, and I suspect that in their most truthful moments both sides would admit they regret what happened. The best hitter in baseball over the last 20 years being moved from the best baseball city in the world due to innuendo, misunderstandings, and possibly the machinations of an outside influence is something that should not be allowed to happen. The only hope is that in the winter time when the heat of passion has faded that the two sides can get together, put this terrible time behind them, and find a way to return Manny to where he belongs, patrolling LF at Fenway Park, where the fans can rise as one to welcome him home and get back to enjoying the entertainment of Manny being Manny.

hi im skot
10-22-2008, 05:13 PM
It is a tragic thing that Boston felt that it was necessary to make the Manny deal. A beloved member of the 2-time World Series winners, and a player who came to define the renaissance of the Red Sox from perennial runner-up into budding dynasty should never have to leave under such egregious circumstances. To attempt to cast blame just seems pointless. This was a sad thing for all sides, and I suspect that in their most truthful moments both sides would admit they regret what happened. The best hitter in baseball over the last 20 years being moved from the best baseball city in the world due to innuendo, misunderstandings, and possibly the machinations of an outside influence is something that should not be allowed to happen. The only hope is that in the winter time when the heat of passion has faded that the two sides can get together, put this terrible time behind them, and find a way to return Manny to where he belongs, patrolling LF at Fenway Park, where the fans can rise as one to welcome him home and get back to enjoying the entertainment of Manny being Manny.

http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/spit.gif

Fenway
10-22-2008, 05:19 PM
I know a lot of Red Sox fans who are saying better to lose without him than winning with him.

Francona said the last 2 months was the most fun he has had in baseball as everybody came to play each night.

He tanked an at bat at Yankee Stadium, pushed a 64 year old man to the floor and told other players he would go on the DL. Suddenly in LA he was fine.

I would not be shocked if he winds up at 1060 W Addison in 2009
I don't think the Yankees want him, the Red Sox won't take him back and who knows what the Mets will do. Maybe he will stay in LA but with a signed contract how long before bad Manny shows up.

spiffie
10-22-2008, 05:29 PM
Funny how when Manny was "tanking" it in Boston in July he had a batting average of .347 and an OPS of 1.060. I wish our guys would tank that way.

RKMeibalane
10-22-2008, 05:43 PM
Funny how when Manny was "tanking" it in Boston in July he had a batting average of .347 and an OPS of 1.060. I wish our guys would tank that way.

With Manny, the issue is always whether putting up with his attitude is worth the offensive production he provides. Manny was swinging the bat well his last few weeks in Boston, but he was doing so many other things poorly. The Red Sox didn't need a second DH in their lineup.

On a semi-related note, what is David Ortiz contract status? His production has declined over the past season-and-half. I wonder how much longer Boston will stick with him before targeting Ryan Howard or Prince Fielder.

Maybe that last part shouldn't be in teal.

ode to veeck
10-23-2008, 12:51 AM
I sure am glad there was a who cares button in this poll

Hendu
10-23-2008, 08:32 AM
The only thing I questions is how much The Red Sox gave up in the deal. In addition to Manny, they sent $7 mil to LA, and 2 minor leaguers to Pittsburgh. That just shows how desperate the team was to dump him.

voodoochile
10-23-2008, 10:21 AM
The only thing I questions is how much The Red Sox gave up in the deal. In addition to Manny, they sent $7 mil to LA, and 2 minor leaguers to Pittsburgh. That just shows how desperate the team was to dump him.

They didn't exactly get back a bag of baseballs. Bay isn't quite Manny with the stick, but he's close. He's also 7 years younger or something and just entering his prime years. He'll also probably cost about $5M less than Manny per year. I would be they can put that money to good use.

They took the ALCS to 7 games without Manny. I think they'll be fine...

Noneck
10-23-2008, 10:48 AM
Yes it was the correct move. It now gives the blosox fans what they like the most: An Excuse.

doublem23
10-23-2008, 11:00 AM
The Red Sox only averaged 4 runs per game in the ALCS, so attitude or not, they probably could have used his stick.

Craig Grebeck
10-23-2008, 11:07 AM
The Red Sox only averaged 4 runs per game in the ALCS, so attitude or not, they probably could have used his stick.
Jason Bay's line: .292/.469/.458

soxfanatlanta
10-23-2008, 11:09 AM
They picked up a very good player with two years of options left in his contract, and got rid of a major head case.

The short term: no,
The long term: yes.

doublem23
10-23-2008, 11:20 AM
Jason Bay's line: .292/.469/.458

:dunno:

I'd rather face Jason Bay 11 times out of 10 instead of Manny Ramirez.

goofymsfan
10-23-2008, 11:56 AM
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f150/titanczar/deargod1.jpg

ditto!

NLaloosh
10-24-2008, 10:52 AM
If a player is such a douche bag that it's even a question that he might quit on his team then it's a damn good thing that the team traded him.

chaerulez
10-24-2008, 10:00 PM
:dunno:

I'd rather face Jason Bay 11 times out of 10 instead of Manny Ramirez.

The point is, due to Bay's good postseason it is possible having Manny over Bay only results in 3 or 4 more runs their entire run.

No one questions who the better player is. It's Manny by far. However, Bay is a well above average player.