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View Full Version : Would you trade Bobby Jenks?


gr8mexico
10-16-2008, 09:52 PM
Would you trade Bobby Jenks for Jose Reyes , Ian Kinsler or a package of young players?
I would say yes. As much I love to have Bobby in the bullpen, .
Matt Thornton could move into the closers role and the Sox need a real leadoff hitter.

DSpivack
10-16-2008, 09:56 PM
Would you trade Bobby Jenks for Jose Reyes , Ian Kinsler or a package of young players?
I would say yes. As much I love to have Bobby in the bullpen, .
Matt Thornton could move into the closers role and the Sox need a real leadoff hitter.

Why would KW want Minaya or whomever the Rangers GM is to laugh hysterically on the phone and hang up on him?

RoobarbPie
10-16-2008, 09:59 PM
I would trade Bobby for even less than that. Closers are more replaceable than a solid middle infielder...

Spivack is right, Kenny would hear laughing on the other end before even finishing the sentence...

gr8mexico
10-16-2008, 09:59 PM
Why would KW want Minaya or whomever the Rangers GM is to laugh hysterically on the phone and hang up on him?
You cant be for real. You is the closer for the METS next year? How many games did they lose because not one pitcher could close the game?

forte
10-16-2008, 10:02 PM
You cant be for real. You is the closer for the METS next year?

I don't know what that means, but Jenks for Reyes is a laughable trade idea.

gr8mexico
10-16-2008, 10:05 PM
My point was would you trade Bobby Jenks for young players or a leadoff hitter

Eddo144
10-16-2008, 10:09 PM
My point was would you trade Bobby Jenks for young players or a leadoff hitter
For a Reyes- or Kinsler-caliber player? In a heartbeat.

Sadly, his value is much lower. As is any closer's.

Craig Grebeck
10-16-2008, 10:09 PM
Probably not. The fanbase would hate it.

kittle42
10-16-2008, 10:40 PM
Probably not. The fanbase would hate it.

**** the fanbase if it improves the team immensely.

kittle42
10-16-2008, 10:42 PM
You cant be for real. You is the closer for the METS next year? How many games did they lose because not one pitcher could close the game?

Your trade proposition is the thing that can't be for real.

BadBobbyJenks
10-16-2008, 10:43 PM
In a word yes. Then West would have to grant me permission to change my username.

Jenks is not bringing back that type of hall as much as I love the guy.

TDog
10-16-2008, 10:49 PM
No. Buildin a bullpen is tough enough when you're not trading the best pitcher out of your bullpen.

pmck003
10-16-2008, 10:53 PM
I like Jenks for either Reyes or Kinsler, but only if Javy for Rollins falls through.

whitesox901
10-16-2008, 10:54 PM
Laugh out loud

TheOldRoman
10-16-2008, 11:12 PM
Last year on the Score, Steve Stone said the Indians (who had a great team but a crappy bullpen) would give up anything for a closer, and they would trade Grady Sizemore straight up for Bobby Jenks. I don't think there was any way in hell the Indians would consider that trade, even if Grady wasn't going to a division rival. If Kenny was offered Sizemore for Bobby, he would have been long gone.

As for this thread, the topic is unrealistic, but it is interesting to think of what price we would put on Bobby. You aren't going to get a young stud who is already tearing up MLB, but say you were offered two top prospects. Would anyone trade Bobby for two top prospects (guys who are in the top 25 overall)? I would still say no. Bullpen arms (closers in particular) who have shown they go do it year in, year out are very valuable. While Bobby is no Kevin Gregg or Jeremy Accardo, he is a top closer. We saw how much our pen changed this year with Bobby out. Unless the Sox had someone lined up who could undoubtedly step in and be average at worst, I couldn't consider it. Not on a competing team.

35th and Shields
10-17-2008, 12:55 AM
No. Buildin a bullpen is tough enough when you're not trading the best pitcher out of your bullpen.

If we could get Reyes/Kinsler i'll take my chances with the bullpen

guillensdisciple
10-17-2008, 01:11 AM
You guys are underestimating how difficult it is to become a closer. Linebrink is a perfect example of a great arm gone wrong in the closers role. Thornton has got amazing stuff, closer written all over him, whether he succeeds in that role can't be assumed.

pmck003
10-17-2008, 01:19 AM
Outside of Danks and MB, I would think KW would have consider trading any one player on the Sox for Rollins. I wouldn't be happy if it was Quentin, but considering his injury history and the outfield situation it doesn't seem too insane. Wouldn't question KW anyways.

It is interesting to think about Jenk's value on the trade market. I made fun of the post but the origional poster may be smart in trading him at the top of his value; TB is doing pretty good with a bullpen I wouldn't of thought much of had I looked at it more before the season.

LoveYourSuit
10-17-2008, 01:33 AM
Let me see, Jenks:

1. Arbitration eligible this year
2. Signs of losing velocity
3. Strikeouts way down at an alarming rate
4. Still appears he can't keep the weight off.
5. Concerns he might breakdown soon.


If there was a year you can trade Jenks and get something solid in return (let's not get stupid with suggesting Kinsler and Reyes), you would do it this offseason.

NLaloosh
10-17-2008, 09:33 AM
I think the Sox would love to trade him IF they had anything close to a suitable replacement for him.

Alas, they do not.

However, if they were offered Jose Reyes for him they wouldn't be able to get the paperwork done fast enough.

There are quite a number of players that would help the Sox more than Jenks. But, I'm pretty sure they won't be offered for him - one for one.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Sox shop him to see what they're offered.

hi im skot
10-17-2008, 10:17 AM
Let me see, Jenks:

2. Signs of losing velocity
3. Strikeouts way down at an alarming rate
4. Still appears he can't keep the weight off.
5. Concerns he might breakdown soon.



His velocity appeared to be up at the end of the season, so who knows? :shrug:

I'm okay with seeing the strikeout rate drop, as I think Bobby has simply learned how to pitch to contact.

Bobby's always been a big guy, so the weight "issue" is a non-existent one for me, personally.

Where do these concerns come from? The DL trip this year sucked, but he came back strong? Have folks in the organization mentioned anything about health concerns?

ChiSoxFan81
10-17-2008, 10:25 AM
I wouldn't trade Bobby. He is the rock in our bullpen. You saw what happened when we went to closer by committee during his injury. Not only was that pretty much a disaster, but that also had lingering effects on the bullpen for the second half of the season. Thorton was good this year, but I wouldn't trust him to close. Even less so for Linebrink or Dotel. We don't need another Billy Koch either. I know you have to give up something to get something, but to me, TCM, TCQ, Bobby, and Buehrle are untouchables. I'd trade Floyd or Danks before Bobby. That's just my opinion.

Noneck
10-17-2008, 10:29 AM
Have folks in the organization mentioned anything about health concerns?
Look how long it took for them to acknowledge that Crede had problems with his back this year? And now Junior.

We wouldn't know if they had concerns or not.


Edit:
And Fields.

thomas35forever
10-17-2008, 10:41 AM
This is a joke, right? Why consider this? While I agree he won't last forever, we don't need to create another bullpen situation by trading our best arm. As long as he can close games, I say stick with him. We're trying to improve the 'pen, not risk it further.

hi im skot
10-17-2008, 10:45 AM
Look how long it took for them to acknowledge that Crede had problems with his back this year? And now Junior.

We wouldn't know if they had concerns or not.


Crede and Griffey have to take a lot of blame/responsibility on this...

I just don't see any real evidence that Jenks is on the verge of a breakdown. :shrug:

Noneck
10-17-2008, 10:54 AM
Crede and Griffey have to take a lot of blame/responsibility on this...

I just don't see any real evidence that Jenks is on the verge of a breakdown. :shrug:


I don't know if they covered it up but the Sox training staff should have had a clue if they did.


My opinion on Jenks is that he held back this year on velocity knowing he was going to be arbitration eligible this year. He didn't want to screw up his 1st big pay day by blowing out his arm. As a a result he may have became a better pitcher.

Dan Mega
10-17-2008, 10:56 AM
Let me see, Jenks:

1. Arbitration eligible this year
2. Signs of losing velocity
3. Strikeouts way down at an alarming rate
4. Still appears he can't keep the weight off.
5. Concerns he might breakdown soon.


If there was a year you can trade Jenks and get something solid in return (let's not get stupid with suggesting Kinsler and Reyes), you would do it this offseason.

Exactly. This should have been done with Konerko (declining real fast despite one good month) and Crede (gave the Sox nothing this year). KW likes old busted veterans so I'm guessing Jenks will be sticking around.

hi im skot
10-17-2008, 10:59 AM
I don't know if they covered it up but the Sox training staff should have had a clue if they did.


My opinion on Jenks is that he held back this year on velocity knowing he was going to be arbitration eligible this year. He didn't want to screw up his 1st big pay day by blowing out his arm. As a a result he may have became a better pitcher.

I think you might be on to something there.

LoveYourSuit
10-17-2008, 11:00 AM
I wouldn't trade Bobby. He is the rock in our bullpen. You saw what happened when we went to closer by committee during his injury. Not only was that pretty much a disaster, but that also had lingering effects on the bullpen for the second half of the season. Thorton was good this year, but I wouldn't trust him to close. Even less so for Linebrink or Dotel. We don't need another Billy Koch either. I know you have to give up something to get something, but to me, TCM, TCQ, Bobby, and Buehrle are untouchables. I'd trade Floyd or Danks before Bobby. That's just my opinion.

Are you serious?

kittle42
10-17-2008, 11:05 AM
This is a joke, right? Why consider this? While I agree he won't last forever, we don't need to create another bullpen situation by trading our best arm. As long as he can close games, I say stick with him. We're trying to improve the 'pen, not risk it further.

Everyone's tradable if you think it makes the team better overall. Jenks is hardly Eckersley or Rivera.

LoveYourSuit
10-17-2008, 11:07 AM
His velocity appeared to be up at the end of the season, so who knows? :shrug:

I'm okay with seeing the strikeout rate drop, as I think Bobby has simply learned how to pitch to contact.

Bobby's always been a big guy, so the weight "issue" is a non-existent one for me, personally.

Where do these concerns come from? The DL trip this year sucked, but he came back strong? Have folks in the organization mentioned anything about health concerns?


I think like Dan Mega mentioned, you need to get something in return while the arrow is still pointing up, in Jenks case I think the arrow is pointing sideways right now at best. If the possibilty was there to get a solid return for him, I would jump on it. Closers appear to flame out very quick in this game, more than any other position out there.

hi im skot
10-17-2008, 11:10 AM
I think like Dan Mega mentioned, you need to get something in return while the arrow is sillt pointing up, in Jenks case I think the arrow is pointing sideways right now at best. If the possibilty was there to get a solid return for him, I would jump on it. Closers appear to flame out very quick in this game, more than any other position our there.

Fair point.

I like Bobby (as I imagine you do, too) and hope that he can stick around for a long time. But there's no way of knowing if he's going to be a Bobby Thigpen-type or a Rivera (highly-unlikely, I know) kind of guy.

This is why I'll never be a GM...

LoveYourSuit
10-17-2008, 11:14 AM
Fair point.

I like Bobby (as I imagine you do, too) and hope that he can stick around for a long time. But there's no way of knowing if he's going to be a Bobby Thigpen-type or a Rivera (highly-unlikely, I know) kind of guy.

This is why I'll never be a GM...


Indeed. I love Bobby like the next guy here. But once those arbitration years kick in, you have to really start considering the value LONG TERM of the asset.

ChiSoxFan81
10-17-2008, 11:23 AM
Are you serious?

Well, it sure wasn't in teal.

hellview
10-17-2008, 11:39 AM
Last year on the Score, Steve Stone said the Indians (who had a great team but a crappy bullpen) would give up anything for a closer, and they would trade Grady Sizemore straight up for Bobby Jenks. I don't think there was any way in hell the Indians would consider that trade, even if Grady wasn't going to a division rival. If Kenny was offered Sizemore for Bobby, he would have been long gone.


First off the Indians had one of the best bullpens in the league last season. Browski's was crap, but the Rafeal's were lights out last season.

There's is no GM in the world who would accept a Jenks/Sizemore deal.

Nellie_Fox
10-17-2008, 11:42 AM
2. Signs of losing velocityIn the tie-break game against Minnesota, he was clocking 98-99. If anything, there are signs that it has come back. He just doesn't throw "all-out" on every fastball anymore; he's learned that there is more benefit to changing speeds and getting movement on the ball.

slavko
10-17-2008, 11:44 AM
When in recent memory have we not been able to replace a closer? If Bobby can help us fill 2 other positions, why not? As much as we love him, he's good, not great, and at his peak value.

Closer may be the destination of Javier Vazquez, who can be counted on for one good inning, anyway. We're stuck with him, under any circumstances.

ChiSoxFan81
10-17-2008, 11:47 AM
When in recent memory have we not been able to replace a closer? If Bobby can help us fill 2 other positions, why not? As much as we love him, he's good, not great, and at his peak value.

Closer may be the destination of Javier Vazquez, who can be counted on for one good inning, anyway. We're stuck with him, under any circumstances.

Let us harken back to the Howry-Foulke-Koch days......

russ99
10-17-2008, 11:49 AM
I personally wouldn't, but I can see where Kenny might deal him:

1. Linebrink and/or Dotel can close.

2. Hard throwers like Bobby usually have injury issues later in their careers.

3. Bobby's signed cheap for a few more years, and thus is likely at his potential highest trade value.

ChiSoxFan81
10-17-2008, 11:53 AM
I personally wouldn't, but I can see where Kenny might deal him:

1. Linebrink and/or Dotel can close.


I would be interested in your recent evidence for said theory.

TomBradley72
10-17-2008, 12:03 PM
Not a chance.

Extremely reliable closer...with very little history of health problems. I don't care if he's heading into arbitration, etc...a solid closer makes a huge difference....and Bobby is one of the most reliable in the game.

Dice
10-17-2008, 12:15 PM
Jenks for Reyes? I'd have to think about that. If you need an immediate answer it would be no.

Jenks for Kinsler? I would definitely consider this move. Especially if Texas throws some more young pitching prospects our way then you got yourself a deal.

Jenks for Sizemore? Where do I sign the trading papers!

guillensdisciple
10-17-2008, 12:21 PM
Honestly, too many people get giddy over the possibility of getting a star player. Jenks is probably the 3rd or 4th best closer in the league, many teams would love to have a pitcher like him. I believe, even with the decrease in speed, that he is a better closer then he was a few years ago. Someone already mentioned this, but he CAN clock in at 98-99 if he wants to, he has just acquired more depth to his pitching arsenal. A cut fastball, a fastball, and a power curve. This guy has a closers arsenal, youngest and fastest to reach 100 saves. You guys are absolutely nuts, who are the White Sox going to put in there, do we have an arm like that to put into the closers role?

That alone will cost us a probable 10 games during the year... and all of you know THAT IS a big deal. Come on guys, pitching wins championships, not hitting and Jose Reyes.

What has Jose Reyes ever done to prove he is ready to take his team to the post season. Jenks is proven, he has been there and he rises up to the occasion. Look at what he did to the Twins, he embarrased them, and how can you forget that curve that caught Pena looking. THAT WAS FILTHY!

To all the haters out there, pay attention, Bobby Jenks still has a LOT of gas in the tank, and he can be and might be the best closer in the league in a short span of time. The only reason his saves aren't as high is because the Sox don't give him as many opportunities to go out there. Imagine if he played for the Angels and got the opportunities that K- Rod got.

You guys know what I am getting at, we let go oh him, and there will be a lot of close games lost and a lot of you guys saying "WHY THE HELL DID WE TRADE JENKS, YOU CAN'T WIN WITHOUT A SOLID CLOSER!!!!"


Keep him and close this thread, this is making me sick.

munchman33
10-17-2008, 12:26 PM
In theory, trading Bobby makes sense.

In reality, that makes Dotel the closer. :o:

kittle42
10-17-2008, 12:36 PM
Anyone who thinks Jenks for Jose Reyes isn't a good deal for the Sox is crazy.

khan
10-17-2008, 12:38 PM
IF KW, OG, and the FO think that this team is ready to contend NOW, then I don't think it would be a good idea to deal. Given that KW's default setting is to go for it NOW, no matter what, I don't think Jenks would be dealt.

On the other hand, if KW, OG, et. al think that the team is a few seasons away from contending, dealing Jenks at this point would be the right move, for all the reasons previously stated.

From my perspective, were I GM, I'd look to see what the team's performance was up to the trade deadline, and then decide. Better yet, if the SOX should unexpectedly fall out of contention, deal Jenks at the end of 2009.

khan
10-17-2008, 12:43 PM
Anyone who thinks Jenks for Jose Reyes isn't a good deal for the Sox is crazy.
Agreed.

But having said that, I don't see the Mets making that deal.

As an aside, maybe its time to start grooming Poreda to be Bobby's replacement. Or at least explore that as a possibility, since Poreda's only a 2 pitch pitcher right now. This way, if/WHEN Bobby's no longer in the team, there is a possible replacement.

Right now, its Dotel [too hittable] or Linebrink [too injury prone] as Bobby's lieutenant.

JB98
10-17-2008, 12:58 PM
Anyone who thinks Jenks for Jose Reyes isn't a good deal for the Sox is crazy.

Of course that would be a good deal for the Sox, but I'd be shocked if something like that were to happen.

If someone gives KW an offer he can't refuse, it's OK to trade Jenks. But otherwise, we're better off holding on to our most reliable reliever.

Linebrink is coming off a bad shoulder. Who knows what he'll be like next year? And Dotel is obviously very erratic. I like Thornton, but I don't trust that he can close.

I can't see Bobby Jenks not being a part of KW's plan to win in 2009.

Dan Mega
10-17-2008, 01:14 PM
HENDRY THE THIEF could pull of a Jenks/Reyes trade heh heh

areilly
10-17-2008, 01:27 PM
There's is no GM in the world who would accept a Jenks/Sizemore deal.

I bet the GM trading for Sizemore would accept it.

LoveYourSuit
10-17-2008, 03:35 PM
Jenks for Reyes? I'd have to think about that. If you need an immediate answer it would be no.

Jenks for Kinsler? I would definitely consider this move. Especially if Texas throws some more young pitching prospects our way then you got yourself a deal.

Jenks for Sizemore? Where do I sign the trading papers!

:rolling:

FedEx227
10-17-2008, 04:51 PM
:rolling:

Only at WSI...

35th and Shields
10-17-2008, 07:00 PM
It's obvious Jenks does not have enough value to bring in a Reyes or Kinsler type most likely, but what would the sox get in return? I think Jenks is good closer but I'm not sure he'll be worth the sort of packages people here are talking about.

Brian26
10-17-2008, 07:01 PM
Anyone who wouldn't take Reyes for Jenks straight-up is certifiably insane.

Lukin13
10-17-2008, 07:28 PM
I honestly believe Bobby's velocity is down by choice/design.

He has discovered that as a closer:

You usually enter the game with at the very least, the lead.

You usually enter the game with no runners on base.

With the luxury of having the lead and fresh slate allows closers to relax, and try to concentrate on not falling behind. Bobby has concentrated more on getting ahead of batters so he can utilize both his heat and hook.

If Bobby enters the game with a three run lead and no one on base, as long as he doesn't walk anyone, or go 2-0,3-1 to every batter, he is going to be hard pressed to surrender a lead... and he has learned this.

Joe Borowski had zero stuff even in his most successful seasons. He just stayed ahead of batters and didn't make mistakes.

Oh yea, and this thread is awful and embarrasing.

Lukin13
10-17-2008, 07:34 PM
Jenks for Reyes? I'd have to think about that. If you need an immediate answer it would be no.

Jenks for Kinsler? I would definitely consider this move. Especially if Texas throws some more young pitching prospects our way then you got yourself a deal.

Jenks for Sizemore? Where do I sign the trading papers!

:happybday

turners56
10-17-2008, 07:53 PM
If we were to trade the Jenks to the Mets, we might get back a combination of Aaron Heilman, Oliver Perez/John Maine, and some other crappy reliever they have. There is no way in hell we will get Jose Reyes. And no people, we won't get David Wright either.

Frater Perdurabo
10-18-2008, 06:48 AM
I honestly believe Bobby's velocity is down by choice/design.

He has discovered that as a closer:

You usually enter the game with at the very least, the lead.

You usually enter the game with no runners on base.

With the luxury of having the lead and fresh slate allows closers to relax, and try to concentrate on not falling behind. Bobby has concentrated more on getting ahead of batters so he can utilize both his heat and hook.

If Bobby enters the game with a three run lead and no one on base, as long as he doesn't walk anyone, or go 2-0,3-1 to every batter, he is going to be hard pressed to surrender a lead... and he has learned this.

Joe Borowski had zero stuff even in his most successful seasons. He just stayed ahead of batters and didn't make mistakes.

Oh yea, and this thread is awful and embarrasing.

Great points. Agreed on all counts. Why hurl it 99 MPH three times to get a K when you can precisely locate a 92 MPH pitch once and induce a weak groundout?

whitesox901
10-18-2008, 02:02 PM
Great points. Agreed on all counts. Why hurl it 99 MPH three times to get a K when you can precisely locate a 92 MPH pitch once and induce a weak groundout?

Exellent point, your my most trusted Sox Clergyman Frater (Sorry Da Rev :redneck)

munchman33
10-18-2008, 02:40 PM
Great points. Agreed on all counts. Why hurl it 99 MPH three times to get a K when you can precisely locate a 92 MPH pitch once and induce a weak groundout?

That depends on who's running, who's on base, what surface you're playing on, and who's playing defense. There are many cases where you'd rather have the flame thrower.

soxrepublican
10-18-2008, 08:42 PM
Trade him for mike sirotka
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1160000/images/_1163291_sirotka_150.jpg 2000 All over again. The kids can play!

sullythered
10-19-2008, 06:41 PM
That depends on who's running, who's on base, what surface you're playing on, and who's playing defense. There are many cases where you'd rather have the flame thrower.
And Bobby showed in the blackout game that he can still be a flamethrower. Fact is, his WHIP went down when he became a pitcher more than a thrower.

I don't think we could get Reyes straight up for him, but I'm sick and tired of people here undervaluing our players because they think it makes them look "in the know." Bobby Jenks has MASSIVE amounts of trade value. He is one of the most difficult assets to attain. Just stop it with the condescension.

Frater Perdurabo
10-19-2008, 06:49 PM
That depends on who's running, who's on base, what surface you're playing on, and who's playing defense. There are many cases where you'd rather have the flame thrower.

OK, fair enough. My point is that Jenks seems to be able to bring the heat when he needs it. Otherwise, why waste the effort when the result will almost always be the same (only four blown saves in 2008)?

kittle42
10-19-2008, 06:52 PM
I don't think we could get Reyes straight up for him, but I'm sick and tired of people here undervaluing our players because they think it makes them look "in the know." Bobby Jenks has MASSIVE amounts of trade value. He is one of the most difficult assets to attain. Just stop it with the condescension.

No one is saying he doesn't have very high value. But the condescension is due to the OP's suggestion.

Rockabilly
10-19-2008, 08:34 PM
I would trade Jenks and Floyd to Fla for Hanley Ramirez and a prospect. since the Marlins let Gregg go

than try to sign K Rod in the off season..

i think Hanley will be a top notch player for many years to come..

kittle42
10-19-2008, 08:41 PM
I would trade Jenks and Floyd to Fla for Hanley Ramirez and a prospect.

Would you now?

Rockabilly
10-19-2008, 08:45 PM
Would you now?


in a heart beat..

Eddo144
10-19-2008, 08:53 PM
in a heart beat..
Yeah, kittle's point was that there's no way the Marlins let Hanley Ramirez go anywhere. In a SI poll of GMs, they listed him as the player they'd take to build their teams around.

Hanley Ramirez has more value than any player in baseball right now. It would take Jenks, Floyd, Danks, (Alexei) Ramirez, and maybe more to get him.

MrT27
10-19-2008, 08:56 PM
Yes. As good as Bobby is and as much as I like him a closer is a interchangeable part I think. I'm not saying anyone can do it but most guys who are good in the bullpen can be good in a closers role. Thornton, Dotel, and Linebrink I think could all close with success on our team. Depending on who we get I think a position player could help us overall more then having Jenks.
Saying that I'm in no rush to trade him. But if I were KW I'd be open to talkign about it.

ChiSoxGirl
10-19-2008, 09:24 PM
And Bobby showed in the blackout game that he can still be a flamethrower. Fact is, his WHIP went down when he became a pitcher more than a thrower.

I don't think we could get Reyes straight up for him, but I'm sick and tired of people here undervaluing our players because they think it makes them look "in the know." Bobby Jenks has MASSIVE amounts of trade value. He is one of the most difficult assets to attain. Just stop it with the condescension.

I was at that game and was too worried about videoing the last out to look at the pitch speed, but watching the highlights on mlb.com the next day, TBS showed that he hit 100 mph with the last pitch he threw to Casilla. In my opinion, if Jenks has command of his pitches and can successfully get guys out by "only" hitting 90-93 or 94 on the gun, why worry about whether or not he hits triple digits?

kevingrt
10-19-2008, 09:47 PM
This is one stupid thread.

Don't trade Bobby and you wouldn't get enough from other teams for his true value to our club.

Boondock Saint
10-19-2008, 11:06 PM
I would trade Jenks and Floyd to Fla for Hanley Ramirez and a prospect.

It took Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell to pry Hanley Ramirez, when he was still a prospect, away from the Red Sox. You think Bobby Jenks and Gavin Floyd is going to pry him away from the Marlins after he's turned into a stud? No way the Marlins take that deal.

TheOldRoman
10-19-2008, 11:51 PM
It took Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell to pry Hanley Ramirez, when he was still a prospect, away from the Red Sox. You think Bobby Jenks and Gavin Floyd is going to pry him away from the Marlins after he's turned into a stud? No way the Marlins take that deal.
You are partially right. It didn't take Mike Lowell. He was the crap that was thrown in. At the time, he was coming off a horrible year, and had a really big contract. Look back to some of the AJ Burnett rumor threads from July 2005 to see how people here felt about Lowell's future. The Marlins made the Red Sox take his salary off their hands, and it worked out perfectly for them.

Rockabilly
10-20-2008, 12:05 AM
Jenks is one of the top closers in the game and Floyd could win 20 games..

The Marlins don't like to spend money and to get 2 top pitchers for a SS. I don't see why they wouldn't do it


How many games can Hanley win for the Marlins compare to Jenks and Floyd.. With the Rays having a good chance to win the World Series the Marlins will need to do something..

IMO the Sox can spend the money to replace Bobby and Gavin..

guillensdisciple
10-20-2008, 12:25 AM
Jenks is one of the top closers in the game and Floyd could win 20 games..

The Marlins don't like to spend money and to get 2 top pitchers for a SS. I don't see why they wouldn't do it


How many games can Hanley win for the Marlins compare to Jenks and Floyd.. With the Rays having a good chance to win the World Series the Marlins will need to do something..

IMO the Sox can spend the money to replace Bobby and Gavin..

How do you know we have this money? Aren't we financially ties at the moment?

doublem23
10-20-2008, 12:31 AM
Jenks is one of the top closers in the game and Floyd could win 20 games..

The Marlins don't like to spend money and to get 2 top pitchers for a SS. I don't see why they wouldn't do it

How many games can Hanley win for the Marlins compare to Jenks and Floyd.. With the Rays having a good chance to win the World Series the Marlins will need to do something..

IMO the Sox can spend the money to replace Bobby and Gavin..

Dude, it's just not going to happen. As has been said, Hanley Ramirez is arguably the most valuable commodity in baseball right now. Even if the Marlins were sniffing offers for him, teams would be lined up halfway to Orlando with better offers than just Jenks/Floyd.

Anyways, barring a slam-dunk for the Sox, I would not trade Bobby. A good, reliable closer is something you don't appreciate while you have it, but the fact is that a guy who can consistently come in and finish off wins is valuable to your team. Those blown 9th-inning losses are maddening and utterly demoralizing. Plus, it sets up the rest of the bullpen nicely, as opposed to a closer-by-committee role. Remember, the Sox bullpen didn't show any signs of trouble until the end of the 1st half when Jenks was unavailable. Obviously, the extended injury to Linebrink and the collapse of Logan really added to the trouble, but the Sox bullpen was nearly flawless until everyone lost their comfort zone and had to fill in for Jenks'. I don't think that was purely coincidental.

Nellie_Fox
10-20-2008, 12:58 AM
Thornton, Dotel, and Linebrink I think could all close with success on our team. Then how come they didn't when Bobby was out with the non-throwing shoulder issue?

Thornton might be able to, although there is a bias against left-handed closers. Dotel's closer days are behind him, and Linebrink is clearly comfortable in the set-up role, but not in the closer role.

Eddo144
10-20-2008, 08:09 AM
Jenks is one of the top closers in the game and Floyd could win 20 games..

The Marlins don't like to spend money and to get 2 top pitchers for a SS. I don't see why they wouldn't do it


How many games can Hanley win for the Marlins compare to Jenks and Floyd.. With the Rays having a good chance to win the World Series the Marlins will need to do something..

IMO the Sox can spend the money to replace Bobby and Gavin..
Ramirez is winning games day after day, as he plays every single day. He hits HR and steals bases. His defense is improving.

PalehosePlanet
11-06-2008, 07:03 PM
Heyman makes mention of the possibility that Jenks could be traded in today's blog.

http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove

gr8mexico
11-06-2008, 07:16 PM
I think if the Sox do make him available I can see many teams placing there bids in. KROD agent softened his stance in which he previously stated that K-Rod would demand at least five years/$75MM. I think many teams are not sold on KROD

Zisk77
11-06-2008, 07:36 PM
So according to trade rumors we are trading:

Vazquez
Jenks
Konerko
Swisher
Broadway
Dye

is anybody staying on the club?

Tragg
11-06-2008, 08:47 PM
So according to trade rumors we are trading:

Vazquez
Jenks
Konerko
Swisher
Broadway
Dye

is anybody staying on the club?
Quentin
Ramirez
Danks
Whatever team we have is built around those 3.

getonbckthr
11-06-2008, 08:54 PM
So according to trade rumors we are trading:

Vazquez
Jenks
Konerko
Swisher
Broadway
Dye

is anybody staying on the club?
I don't have a problem with this. Its showing Kenny is willing to do whatever it takes to build a winner.

Sargeant79
11-06-2008, 10:13 PM
The thing about trading Jenks is that he would likely bring a huge return. Consider...

There are only a couple of teams that can afford to pay what KRod is likely going to get on the free agent market despite the fact that there are a lot of teams hunting for closers this offseason. The next best option is Brian Fuentes, who is stupidly overvalued based on what the rumor mill is saying his contract will be worth annually (at least in my opinion, which admittedly doesn't count for much).

Jenks is young, has a proven track record of closing at an elite level in the major leagues, isn't all that expensive despite arbitration raises, and is not subject to a long term contact thereby reducing the risk for a team that acquires him.

I would be just as concerned as everyone else regarding who we expect to have closing next year, but Jenks may well be the most valuable trading chip we have. Depending on who we get in return and what corresponding moves are made, it may make a lot of sense.

slavko
11-10-2008, 11:15 AM
Don't forget to consider as a replacement for a traded Jenks:Javier Vazquez. He's a failed starter (which can lead to the bullpen), he can usually give you a good inning or two before he loses it, he might be too expensive to move, he has a boatload of stuff, and he doesn't walk a lot of guys. He would have to stop soiling the bed under pressure. I'd call it worth a try.

Doesn't our hero Billy Beane say that he can make anyone into a closer?

veeter
11-10-2008, 11:18 AM
No way.

kittle42
11-10-2008, 08:15 PM
Don't forget to consider as a replacement for a traded Jenks:Javier Vazquez. He's a failed starter (which can lead to the bullpen), he can usually give you a good inning or two before he loses it, he might be too expensive to move, he has a boatload of stuff, and he doesn't walk a lot of guys. He would have to stop soiling the bed under pressure. I'd call it worth a try.

Doesn't our hero Billy Beane say that he can make anyone into a closer?

Here is one time I will agree with the "no heart, no balls" crowd. You cannot make a mental midget into a closer.

FedEx227
11-10-2008, 11:32 PM
Doesn't our hero Billy Beane say that he can make anyone into a closer?

Um, no. He never said that. He believes any GOOD reliever can become a closer. Ziegler will likely be closing for them next year.

Big difference there. There is only one other guy on this team I trust closing and that's Thornton, but if we get good offers for Jenks I'd definitely dangle him.

Sockinchisox
11-11-2008, 11:19 AM
According to Jon Heyman the Mets are trying to acquire Jenks instead of signing Fuentes or Rodriguez. Those two are the fallbacks if they can't.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/11/11/heyman.storylines/?eref=sircrc

LoveYourSuit
11-11-2008, 11:45 AM
Start bracing yourself if they trade Jenks, White Sox nation will burn the city down.

Not that we would get either one of them straight up, but they can send us Wright or Beltran and some Sox fans will still be outraged. It's like we have created a folk hero just like they did with Rowand.


Now for a trade scenario, can we get Beltran + Cash for Jenks + Dye?

OF becomes Quentin, Beltran, Swisher.

Then we work on finding speed for either 3B or 2B.

Thornton becomes closer and Poreda takes Thornton's spot.

kittle42
11-11-2008, 11:59 AM
Start bracing yourself if they trade Jenks, White Sox nation will burn the city down.

It would get pretty annoying around here, but hey, if that kind of a deal netted a Beltran, I don't know how anyone could complain.

Tragg
11-11-2008, 12:07 PM
Jenks is ice. He saves a 1-0 lead on the road to win a WS. He blows a save earlier in the series on a doink hit, but it doesn't faze him in the least and he's back the next night.
He's had staying power (3.5 seasons). That intangible thing called "clutch"....he's got it.
HIs numbers may not be elite, but his performance sure is.

eaganmafia
11-11-2008, 12:11 PM
Jenks is ice. He saves a 1-0 lead on the road to win a WS. He blows a save earlier in the series on a doink hit, but it doesn't faze him in the least and he's back the next night.
He's had staying power (3.5 seasons). That intangible thing called "clutch"....he's got it.
HIs numbers may not be elite, but his performance sure is.

Hmmmmmmm....

LoveYourSuit
11-11-2008, 12:12 PM
Jenks is ice. He saves a 1-0 lead on the road to win a WS. He blows a save earlier in the series on a doink hit, but it doesn't faze him in the least and he's back the next night.
He's had staying power (3.5 seasons). That intangible thing called "clutch"....he's got it.
HIs numbers may not be elite, but his performance sure is.


Agree.

But if you can get a guy like Carlos Beltran by moving him, you have to do it.

He is not Mariano Rivera or a Dennis Eckersley .... in other words, he is not untouchable.

Tragg
11-11-2008, 12:14 PM
Agree.

But if you can get a guy like Carlos Beltran by moving him, you have to do it.

He is not Mariano Rivera or a Dennis Eckersley .... in other words, he is not untouchable.
No doubt.
A pitcher can amass saves and still be just a decent pitcher. Jenks is better than that.

LoveYourSuit
11-11-2008, 12:25 PM
That's one thing the Sox organization has shown us over time, they don't get caught up in the whole "closer hype" that exists out there. They will make a move if one needs to be made. And they will find someone to plug in for that role. And I think to be fair, they have done a real good job of pluggin in closers (Hernandez, Karchner, Howry, Foulke, Shingo, Hermanson, Jenks). Koch was the only time they failed.


Besides, my honest opinion about Jenks is that the arrow is pointing sideways on him. My gut feeling is that very soon it will be poiting down, just based on his size and velocity issues I have seen. This is dangerous territroy to be in being that arbitraiton years are due now and you need to make a decision. Sell high is what I think the Sox are thinking here.

kittle42
11-11-2008, 12:33 PM
Besides, my honest opinion about Jenks is that the arrow is pointing sideways on him. My gut feeling is that very soon it will be poiting down, just based on his size and velocity issues I have seen. This is dangerous territroy to be in being that arbitraiton years are due now and you need to make a decision. Sell high is what I think the Sox are thinking here.

Agreed. And the Mets are a perfect team to pawn him off to, given Wagner being out and their complete collapse with the Heilman/Ayala/etc. bullpen shenanigans last season.

btrain929
11-11-2008, 12:47 PM
Start bracing yourself if they trade Jenks, White Sox nation will burn the city down.

Not that we would get either one of them straight up, but they can send us Wright or Beltran and some Sox fans will still be outraged. It's like we have created a folk hero just like they did with Rowand.


Now for a trade scenario, can we get Beltran + Cash for Jenks + Dye?

OF becomes Quentin, Beltran, Swisher.

Then we work on finding speed for either 3B or 2B.

Thornton becomes closer and Poreda takes Thornton's spot.

If I had a say in it, I'd prefer it be Jenks + Vazquez instead of Dye. But if for some reason they say that Beltran is untouchable, I don't know what NYM would have to pry Jenks away from us. They have some good prospects, but I don't think any of them would contribute in '09. And I would imagine KW would want at least 1 2009 contributor in return for trading Jenks.

gr8mexico
11-11-2008, 01:16 PM
The sox should be asking for Fernando Martinez, Aaron Heilman & prospect Jon Niese for Bobby Jenks

kobo
11-11-2008, 01:22 PM
Agree.

But if you can get a guy like Carlos Beltran by moving him, you have to do it.

He is not Mariano Rivera or a Dennis Eckersley .... in other words, he is not untouchable.
You really think the White Sox want to take on Beltran's salary? The guy is going to make $18.5 million a year for the next 3 years. Plus, he has a full no-trade clause. I don't see the Sox making this move.

AzureJazzMan
11-11-2008, 01:47 PM
If I had a say in it, I'd prefer it be Jenks + Vazquez instead of Dye. But if for some reason they say that Beltran is untouchable, I don't know what NYM would have to pry Jenks away from us. They have some good prospects, but I don't think any of them would contribute in '09. And I would imagine KW would want at least 1 2009 contributor in return for trading Jenks.

After a little digging, here are some of the Mets prospects, that certainly interest me...

J.D. Martin (SP) (AA) (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=J.D.%20Martin&pos=P&sid=t422&t=p_pbp&pid=455605)
Jensen Lewis (RP) (AAA) (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Jensen%20Lewis&pos=P&sid=t422&t=p_pbp&pid=460029)
Caleb Stewart (RF) (AA) (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Caleb%20Stewart&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=452067)
Daniel Murphy (3B) (AA) (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Daniel%20Murphy&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=502517)

And, I still feel that Aaron Heilman is still a salvageable pitcher over there, that desperately needs to get out of New York.

Now, the question would be, how many prospects are the Mets willing to give up for Jenks?

Furthermore, I wonder what could we get, if we send them, Jenks + Vazquez, and Dye?

btrain929
11-11-2008, 01:56 PM
After a little digging, here are some of the Mets prospects, that certainly interest me...

J.D. Martin (SP) (AA) (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=J.D.%20Martin&pos=P&sid=t422&t=p_pbp&pid=455605)
Jensen Lewis (RP) (AAA) (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Jensen%20Lewis&pos=P&sid=t422&t=p_pbp&pid=460029)
Caleb Stewart (RF) (AA) (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Caleb%20Stewart&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=452067)
Daniel Murphy (3B) (AA) (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Daniel%20Murphy&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=502517)

And, I still feel that Aaron Heilman is still a salvageable pitcher over there, that desperately needs to get out of New York.

Now, the question would be, how many prospects are the Mets willing to give up for Jenks?

Furthermore, I wonder what could we get, if we send them, Jenks + Vazquez, and Dye?

Dude, those first 2 players are part of the Indians' system. Lewis was their closer the last part of the year.

From my own research, Murphy, Carp, and Niese looked very good.

Most of the time, it's pretty dumb to package 3 very valuable players together in one deal, as you can usually get more back in return in they are traded separately.

Ditka v. God
11-11-2008, 01:57 PM
After a little digging, here are some of the Mets prospects, that certainly interest me...

J.D. Martin (SP) (AA) (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=J.D.%20Martin&pos=P&sid=t422&t=p_pbp&pid=455605)
Jensen Lewis (RP) (AAA) (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Jensen%20Lewis&pos=P&sid=t422&t=p_pbp&pid=460029)
Caleb Stewart (RF) (AA) (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Caleb%20Stewart&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=452067)
Daniel Murphy (3B) (AA) (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Daniel%20Murphy&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=502517)

And, I still feel that Aaron Heilman is still a salvageable pitcher over there, that desperately needs to get out of New York.

Now, the question would be, how many prospects are the Mets willing to give up for Jenks?

Furthermore, I wonder what could we get, if we send them, Jenks + Vazquez, and Dye?

The Triple-A guys on the list are actually members of Cleveland's Triple-A affiliate the Buffalo Bison and are not in the New York Mets organization. MLB.com has the wrong triple-A affiliate listed on the New York Mets website, quite confusing. The Mets AAA affiliate is the New Orleans Zephyrs. (http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/index.jsp?sid=t588)

LoveYourSuit
11-11-2008, 01:57 PM
You really think the White Sox want to take on Beltran's salary? The guy is going to make $18.5 million a year for the next 3 years. Plus, he has a full no-trade clause. I don't see the Sox making this move.


Dye will make $10 million next year and has a team option for the following also. Jenks will make about $5 million next year and maybe another $7-8 million for 2010 in arbitration, especially with the numbers being thrown out there for K Rod today.

So $18.5 million for Beltran sounds a lot but keep in mind you are losing $15-$17 million off our books too. And I would be asking for the Mets to pay about $10 million of the remaining contract on Beltran, this way he becomes a $15million per year player for us.

Keep in mind also that Thome's $$$ are off the books after 2009. Konerko off the books after 2010.

btrain929
11-11-2008, 02:01 PM
dye will make $10 million next year and has a team option for the following also. Jenks will make about $5 million next year and maybe another $7-8 million for 2010 in arbitration, especially with the numbers being thrown out there for k rod today.

So $18.5 million for beltran sounds a lot but keep in mind you are losing $15-$17 million off our books too. And i would be asking for the mets to pay about $10 million of the remaining contract on beltran, this way he becomes a $15million per year player for us.

Keep in mind also that thome's $$$ are off the books after 2009. Konerko off the books after 2010.

+1

LoveYourSuit
11-11-2008, 02:02 PM
Dude, those first 2 players are part of the Indians' system. Lewis was their closer the last part of the year.

From my own research, Murphy, Carp, and Niese looked very good.

Most of the time, it's pretty dumb to package 3 very valuable players together in one deal, as you can usually get more back in return in they are traded separately.


This is the reason I avoid talking about prospects, period. It's emberassing to be called out like that, not knowing what farm system you are talking about.

Unless I am this traveling baseball geek who visits minor league parks frequently, I will reserve my opinion on prospects.

AzureJazzMan
11-11-2008, 02:09 PM
LOL...Hey, I just followed the links (from the Mets site) and read through the stats. But, hey, they still look pretty good? Right? :redface:

Thank you for correcting me on the affiliates...I will now go hide in the corner :D:

kittle42
11-11-2008, 02:32 PM
This is the reason I avoid talking about prospects, period. It's emberassing to be called out like that, not knowing what farm system you are talking about.

Unless I am this traveling baseball geek who visits minor league parks frequently, I will reserve my opinion on prospects.

I agree. And this is why the frequent in-depth discussions of Poreda here (except for a few people who actually *do* fit the above description) are sometimes silly.

Ditka v. God
11-11-2008, 02:36 PM
Everybody is focusing on the Mets dealing for Jenks but what about another team, like the Tampa Bay Rays, that needs a closer and has a ton more talent in their minor league system?

If we're committed to shipping out Jenks for some quality minor league/major league ready talent why not offer Jenks to the Rays for a package of Fernando Perez, Joel Guzman and another piece like Jeff Niemann?

If anything this would bring in another bidder to drive the price up for Bobby.

eaganmafia
11-11-2008, 02:39 PM
everybody is focusing on the mets dealing for jenks but what about another team, like the tampa bay rays, that needs a closer and has a ton more talent in their minor league system?

If we're committed to shipping out jenks for some quality minor league/major league ready talent why not offer jenks to the rays for a package of fernando perez, juan guzman and another piece like jeff niemann?

if anything this would bring in another bidder to drive the price up for bobby.


yuck!!!!

kittle42
11-11-2008, 03:01 PM
If we're committed to shipping out Jenks for some quality minor league/major league ready talent why not offer Jenks to the Rays for a package of Fernando Perez, Joel Guzman and another piece like Jeff Niemann?

If anything this would bring in another bidder to drive the price up for Bobby.

Aren't we talking about Jenks for Beltran and not Jenks for minor leaguers?

forte
11-11-2008, 03:33 PM
yuck!!!!

Do you even know who those players are? Thats not that terrible of a deal

LoveYourSuit
11-11-2008, 03:33 PM
LOL...Hey, I just followed the links (from the Mets site) and read through the stats. But, hey, they still look pretty good? Right? :redface:

Thank you for correcting me on the affiliates...I will now go hide in the corner :D:

I used to look up and down minor league stats, but decided to let the experts make judgment on talent. I am no way an expert unless I start going to see these guys play live. On this board, I would say maybe no more than 5% of the folks talking about prospects have a clue of what they are talking about or have even seen the names mentioned in person.


Kittle, you are right. The stuff on Poreda is comical here. Some have this guy walking on water and untouchable and others say the guy is dead weight because all he can supposedly do is throw a fastball. My only judgment on him is that at worst he can be a good piece to our bullpen next season because no way can he be any worse than Logan, Wasserman, and the rest of the garbage we saw last year.

ChiSoxFan81
11-11-2008, 03:34 PM
That's one thing the Sox organization has shown us over time, they don't get caught up in the whole "closer hype" that exists out there. They will make a move if one needs to be made. And they will find someone to plug in for that role. And I think to be fair, they have done a real good job of pluggin in closers (Hernandez, Karchner, Howry, Foulke, Shingo, Hermanson, Jenks). Koch was the only time they failed.


:?:

Howry and Foulke were mediocre at best. They did not perform well after a certain point, which is why they were replaced. Remember, we thought we were getting a heck of a deal when we got Koch. Foulke wasn't anything near what he became after the Sox.

Shingo had one good year. He was new, and the league had to adjust to him, especially his slow junk. After that, he was a disaster.

Hermanson took over for Shingo and did a respectable job, but got hurt halfway thru the season. We're extremely lucky that we were able to acquire Jenks and had him waiting in the wings.

I'm not saying that Jenks will be reliable in 2009 and beyond, or that we shouldn't listen to offers. But closer isn't just a "plug-in" position. If your memory is failing, just look back at some "highlights" of Linebrink, Dotel, and Thornton attempting saves last year. Bobby is the most reliable guy we've had since Hernandez by far.

Ditka v. God
11-11-2008, 03:41 PM
Aren't we talking about Jenks for Beltran and not Jenks for minor leaguers?


I believe the talks have centered around a package of Jenks and either Vazquez or Dye for Beltran, (which would be a steal on our end) I'm just skeptical that that deal is actually available.

I'm thinking that each of those pieces (Jenks, Vazquez, Dye) are more valuable individually rather than as a package. Also, offering a deal for Jenks to the Rays would go a long way to driving up Bobby's value. If we could pry away 2-3 major league ready prospects like Fernando Martinez and Daniel Murphy from the Mets or Fernando Perez and Joel Guzman from the Rays I would consider that a fair and successful deal for both sides.

Eddo144
11-11-2008, 03:43 PM
:?:

Howry and Foulke were mediocre at best. They did not perform well after a certain point, which is why they were replaced. Remember, we thought we were getting a heck of a deal when we got Koch. Foulke wasn't anything near what he became after the Sox.

Shingo had one good year. He was new, and the league had to adjust to him, especially his slow junk. After that, he was a disaster.

Hermanson took over for Shingo and did a respectable job, but got hurt halfway thru the season. We're extremely lucky that we were able to acquire Jenks and had him waiting in the wings.

I'm not saying that Jenks will be reliable in 2009 and beyond, or that we shouldn't listen to offers. But closer isn't just a "plug-in" position. If your memory is failing, just look back at some "highlights" of Linebrink, Dotel, and Thornton attempting saves last year. Bobby is the most reliable guy we've had since Hernandez by far.
You're kind of proving the opposite point though; all those guys were effective until they just weren't. A sudden dropoff is not a rare thing for closers not named Mariano. If you can get a haul like Carlos Beltran for Jenks, might as well do it when you can; in another year or two, he might not bring in anyone worthwhile.

LoveYourSuit
11-11-2008, 03:47 PM
:?:

Howry and Foulke were mediocre at best. They did not perform well after a certain point, which is why they were replaced. Remember, we thought we were getting a heck of a deal when we got Koch. Foulke wasn't anything near what he became after the Sox.

Shingo had one good year. He was new, and the league had to adjust to him, especially his slow junk. After that, he was a disaster.

Hermanson took over for Shingo and did a respectable job, but got hurt halfway thru the season. We're extremely lucky that we were able to acquire Jenks and had him waiting in the wings.

I'm not saying that Jenks will be reliable in 2009 and beyond, or that we shouldn't listen to offers. But closer isn't just a "plug-in" position. If your memory is failing, just look back at some "highlights" of Linebrink, Dotel, and Thornton attempting saves last year. Bobby is the most reliable guy we've had since Hernandez by far.


They were good plug away solutions. Howry was serviceable and then Foulke took over. Foulke had a pair of real good years closing for us.

I don't recall ever as a Sox fan me sitting there a dreading the the day we would find a "lights out closer." Finding a #5 starter for a few years there, now that was agonizing. The closer role has not been something I have lost sleep in the past for.

Look no further than 2005. We won a WS using 3 projects to close games for us.

ChiSoxFan81
11-11-2008, 03:54 PM
You're kind of proving the opposite point though; all those guys were effective until they just weren't. A sudden dropoff is not a rare thing for closers not named Mariano. If you can get a haul like Carlos Beltran for Jenks, might as well do it when you can; in another year or two, he might not bring in anyone worthwhile.

Like I said, no one can guarantee he'll be effective in 2009 or beyond. I also said listening to offers is prudent. I'd part with Jenks IF we got a good return, and had a legit replacement. Right now, I don't know who that would be.

They were good plug away solutions. Howry was serviceable and then Foulke took over. Foulke had a pair of real good years closing for us.

I don't recall ever as a Sox fan me sitting there a dreading the the day we would find a "lights out closer." Finding a #5 starter for a few years there, now that was agonizing. The closer role has not been something I have lost sleep in the past for.

Look no further than 2005. We won a WS using 3 projects to close games for us.

Yes, but by necessity. Once you find a reliable guy, stick with him. K-Rod has been great for years. Hoffman is still serviceable. Rivera, like you mentioned. It's not like Bobby has been around for 10 years though. He could still have many effective years. He also may not. We may very well be agonizing over finding a 5th starter again next year, so do you really want to add finding a closer as well? If you don't stand much chance of winning every 5th day, you're going to want to close out as many games as possible without problems.

eaganmafia
11-11-2008, 03:58 PM
Do you even know who those players are? Thats not that terrible of a deal

Joel Guzan is now a minor league free agent. He was highly regarded years ago but it's pretty clear the guy is a bust now. He has no defensive home and the massive power he was suppose to grow into never showed up.

Perez is nothing more then a 4th outfield at best. He's got some speed and can flash some glove but he'll never be anything more then a faster version of BA.

Jeff Niemann is intrested but like every pitcher that comes outta Rice he been hurt and inconsistant. I'm just not a big fan and I think he'll end up in the Rays bullpen next season, maybe even as a closer until Jacob McGee is ready.

LoveYourSuit
11-11-2008, 04:08 PM
God, I wish we can had out credentials to be allowed to post about prospects. Hearing all these names being kicked around makes my head spin.


And no, subscribing to Baseball America does not certify you as a "prospect expert."

Craig Grebeck
11-11-2008, 04:21 PM
Will you guys please, for the love of all things sacred, realize that Fernando Perez really, really sucks?

eaganmafia
11-11-2008, 04:30 PM
Will you guys please, for the love of all things sacred, realize that Fernando Perez really, really sucks?

No power-CHECK
Low OBP-CHECK
Fast-CHECK
Plays CF-CHECK

What are you talking about, he's the answer to this boards dreams.

Ditka v. God
11-11-2008, 04:43 PM
No power-CHECK
Low OBP-CHECK
Fast-CHECK
Plays CF-CHECK

What are you talking about, he's the answer to this boards dreams.

But isn't this the type of player that Kenny is looking for and that our lineup desperately needs? Kenny has made it no secret that he's looking to add speed to the top of the lineup and I'm just trying to throw out some names that might help in this regard.

I'm really tired of the reliance on the long ball from this lineup and thought that this player or a player in this mold would fit our future plans. But as with any proposition that involves trading for minor league prospects, those prospects are always "Jerry Owens-lite" or "worse than (insert any of our minor league prospects)."

Sorry for not suggesting a name that appeases your unbelievably high standards, oh almighty God of Baseball Talent Analysis.

chaerulez
11-11-2008, 04:54 PM
No power-CHECK
Low OBP-CHECK
Fast-CHECK
Plays CF-CHECK

What are you talking about, he's the answer to this boards dreams.

Fast and toughness are interchangeable, see Darrin Erstad.

And so are LF/CF, see Scott Podsednik.

NLaloosh
11-11-2008, 05:33 PM
I would sign Trevor Hoffman right now. He'd probably sign for less than Jenks will get in arbitration.

Then, we could take a nice haul for Bobby.

Tragg
11-11-2008, 06:06 PM
The trouble with bringing yet another swing at everything fast guy onto this team is that Ozzie will play him a lot, if not start him.
We've got one anyway - jerry owens.

eaganmafia
11-11-2008, 06:33 PM
I would sign Trevor Hoffman right now. He'd probably sign for less than Jenks will get in arbitration.

Then, we could take a nice haul for Bobby.

First off Jenks isn't gonna get 4+ million which is what the Padres offered Hoffman. Second does bringing a decline aging pitcher from the NL's biggest park to the AL to pitch a majority of his games in the Cell really seem like a good idea?

LoveYourSuit
11-11-2008, 11:11 PM
First off Jenks isn't gonna get 4+ million which is what the Padres offered Hoffman. Second does bringing a decline aging pitcher from the NL's biggest park to the AL to pitch a majority of his games in the Cell really seem like a good idea?


Keith Foulke made himself a good career pitching as a change up closer including here at US Cellular field.

I don't see how Hoffman would be anything worse than an average closer here with us. Average can win us the WS or at least get us there which is what we have seen by the Tigers, Cardinals, TB, Marlins, etc in the past.

PalehosePlanet
11-11-2008, 11:26 PM
Solomon Torres just retired today, and pretty much the rest of The Brewers pen are FA's. Could the Brewers come to the table with a real offer for Bobby, or even Thornton -- If Poreda is ready to take his spot?

JJ Hardy maybe?

We know the Brewers don't like to spend money.

Anyway, I would trade Bobby, but only if the deal knocked me out.

Craig Grebeck
11-11-2008, 11:29 PM
Solomon Torres just retired today, and pretty much the rest of The Brewers pen are FA's. Could the Brewers come to the table with a real offer for Bobby, or even Thornton -- If Poreda is ready to take his spot?

JJ Hardy maybe?

We know the Brewers don't like to spend money.

Anyway, I would trade Bobby, but only if the deal knocked me out.
Hardy doesn't really do it for me. It'd take a fairly impressive haul, and I'm not really keen on any of their prospects.

PalehosePlanet
11-11-2008, 11:43 PM
Hardy doesn't really do it for me. It'd take a fairly impressive haul, and I'm not really keen on any of their prospects.

Not even Matt Laporta?

I'm surprised you don't like Hardy because we usually agree on the talent level of players. I personally think his defense, especially his range, is underrated. He has a good line drive swing and will hit the ball where it's pitched w/good pop; and although he doesn't steal bases he is a decent baserunner. I know the negatives are he K's a little too often and the OBP is just average but I think overall he's all-star caliber.

Just curious, what don't you like?

Craig Grebeck
11-11-2008, 11:49 PM
Not even Matt Laporta?

I'm surprised you don't like Hardy because we usually agree on the talent level of players. I personally think his defense, especially his range, is underrated. He has a good line drive swing and will hit the ball where it's pitched w/good pop; and although he doesn't steal bases he is a decent baserunner. I know the negatives are he K's a little too often and the OBP is just average but I think overall he's all-star caliber.

Just curious, what don't you like?
I don't think he'd translate very well to the AL, and I don't believe he'd be a valuable exchange for Jenks. I'd prefer a more dynamic up the middle player.

Matt LaPorta was traded to the Indians for Sabathia. I like Matt Gamel, but ultimately I think he's overrated. They have corner guys in the minors, with the exception of Escobar.

The only deal with them I certainly wouldn't oppose would be Dotel for Weeks. Move Weeks to CF, and I think he'd fare a lot better.

PalehosePlanet
11-12-2008, 12:03 AM
I don't think he'd translate very well to the AL, and I don't believe he'd be a valuable exchange for Jenks. I'd prefer a more dynamic up the middle player.

Matt LaPorta was traded to the Indians for Sabathia. I like Matt Gamel, but ultimately I think he's overrated. They have corner guys in the minors, with the exception of Escobar.

The only deal with them I certainly wouldn't oppose would be Dotel for Weeks. Move Weeks to CF, and I think he'd fare a lot better.

My bad, I forgot Laporta went to the Indians for CC.

As for Weeks, he is definitely a post-hype, high draft pick, pedigreed player that KW loves to acquire after they fail with their initial teams. I wouldn't mind taking a chance on him, but it's looking doubtful that he can make it through a full season injury free.

Have The Brewers discussed moving him to CF?

Also, Escobar will obviously replace Hardy after he becomes too expensive, so I doubt they would deal him.

Craig Grebeck
11-12-2008, 12:05 AM
My bad, I forgot Laporta went to the Indians for CC.

As for Weeks, he is definitely a post-hype, high draft pick, pedigreed player that KW loves to acquire after they fail with their initial teams. I wouldn't mind taking a chance on him, but it's looking doubtful that he can make it through a full season injury free.

Have The Brewers discussed moving him to CF?

Also, Escobar will obviously replace Hardy after he becomes too expensive, so I doubt they would deal him.
Yeah, Escobar will be up soon. I don't think he's nearly as good as advertised. More Chin Lung Hu than Troy Tulowitzki, that's for sure.

I'm sure they've talked about it; with Cameron there, there's no need for it at this point. I really, really like Weeks and would love to have him in CF. Serious BJ Upton potential.

btrain929
11-12-2008, 12:06 AM
My bad, I forgot Laporta went to the Indians for CC.

As for Weeks, he is definitely a post-hype, high draft pick, pedigreed player that KW loves to acquire after they fail with their initial teams. I wouldn't mind taking a chance on him, but it's looking doubtful that he can make it through a full season injury free.

Have The Brewers discussed moving him to CF?

Also, Escobar will obviously replace Hardy after he becomes too expensive, so I doubt they would deal him.

Not as long as Mike Cameron is in town...

Craig Grebeck
11-12-2008, 12:07 AM
Not as long as Mike Cameron is in town...
Yep, which is why the Yankees think they can pry Cameron away from the Brewers. Unlikely, but they're dangling Cabrera/Kennedy.

NLaloosh
11-12-2008, 08:36 AM
First off Jenks isn't gonna get 4+ million which is what the Padres offered Hoffman. Second does bringing a decline aging pitcher from the NL's biggest park to the AL to pitch a majority of his games in the Cell really seem like a good idea?

First off, Jenks will definitely exceed $ 4 mil. and likely be in the $ 6 mil. area.

Secondly, I'm not saying that Hoffman would be as good a closer as Jenks at this stage but I do think that he would be acceptable. And, like I said, if it was a nice haul for Jenks the Sox could be much better off.

eaganmafia
11-12-2008, 10:45 AM
First off, Jenks will definitely exceed $ 4 mil. and likely be in the $ 6 mil. area.


If I'm looking at this right Brad Lidge (in his 3rd year of arb.) signed 6.35 this year. K-Rod in his 1st year of arb got 3.75 million.

I guess it will be close to 4, but I really don't see Jenks getting more then 4 million next season.