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Demps2
10-16-2008, 09:58 PM
teams that have both the NEED and the MONEY will be needed to trade him.

1.Mets
2.Yankees
3.Tigers

anyone else??? I don't think he could get us much outside of a Luis Castillo type player at the MOST.

Craig Grebeck
10-16-2008, 09:58 PM
teams that have both the NEED and the MONEY will be needed to trade him.

1.Mets
2.Yankees
3.Tigers

anyone else??? I don't think he could get us much outside of a Luis Castillo type player at the MOST.
4. White Sox

Marqhead
10-16-2008, 09:58 PM
Who is Vasquez?

turners56
10-16-2008, 10:03 PM
Who is Vasquez?

I don't know. He's not on the Sox 40 man roster. I don't even know anybody by the name of Vasquez in the Sox system.

btrain929
10-16-2008, 10:05 PM
What are you guys talking about? I heard we were working on Javy for Jimmy Rollins....

...
10-16-2008, 10:09 PM
I don't know. He's not on the Sox 40 man roster. I don't even know anybody by the name of Vasquez in the Sox system.

Carlos Vasquez?

turners56
10-16-2008, 10:15 PM
Carlos Vasquez?

Supposedly, he's no longer in the system.

kittle42
10-16-2008, 10:27 PM
This thread sucks.

oeo
10-16-2008, 10:31 PM
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/gif/ppreflex.gif

TDog
10-16-2008, 11:16 PM
4. White Sox

Considering that the Sox will be looking for a starter to replace Contreras, you could be right. But if they picked up Vazquez to replace Contreras, they would still have to find someone to replace Vazquez.

btrain929
10-16-2008, 11:29 PM
Vazquez to the Dodgers for Pierre, a minor leaguer, and 10 million (making Pierre a 6 mil/year player).

kittle42
10-16-2008, 11:39 PM
Javier Vazquez is not going anywhere.

Tragg
10-17-2008, 12:05 AM
Vazquez to the Dodgers for Pierre, a minor leaguer, and 10 million (making Pierre a 6 mil/year player).
You've got to be kidding.
Pierre has ZERO trade value. None. He's a bench player for Torre. He played in one playoff game and has had 3 successive seasons of poor OBP and no power.
Thus, you're trading Vazquez for a minor leaguer.
Plus, giving Guillen a low OBP ballplayer with speed is dangerous.
Buy high, sell low.

cws05champ
10-17-2008, 12:46 AM
Maybe Vazquez could be the first player to be traded for himself. That way he could start fresh here in chicago. Would that make people happy here?

LoveYourSuit
10-17-2008, 02:55 AM
teams that have both the NEED and the MONEY will be needed to trade him.

1.Mets
2.Yankees
3.Tigers

anyone else??? I don't think he could get us much outside of a Luis Castillo type player at the MOST.

:rolleyes: Right, because the first stint at the Bronx went so well, they will desparate to get him back.

asindc
10-17-2008, 09:39 AM
teams that have both the NEED and the MONEY will be needed to trade him.

1.Mets
2.Yankees
3.Tigers

anyone else??? I don't think he could get us much outside of a Luis Castillo type player at the MOST.

Then why would you want to trade him?! Because you are pissed off that he sucked the last month of this season? The Sox are much better off keeping him as an expensive 4th or (hopefully) 5th starter than selling at the lowest point. If starters were so easy to replace, Clayton Richard would not have started a game for the Sox this year.

Steelrod
10-17-2008, 09:45 AM
Maybe Vazquez could be the first player to be traded for himself. That way he could start fresh here in chicago. Would that make people happy here?
Don't believe it would be a first!

Demps2
10-17-2008, 11:34 AM
that it is likely. but, w/ Javier being in his last year of his contract in 09, he could POSSIBLY be traded. I'm not saying it WILL happen, just saying it might. Those were just possible destinations. Did anyone think Garland would be traded last year with Floyd and Danks as ? marks? I'm not trying to start any rumors, that's why I didn't make up a ridiculous trade. I just said a Castillo type player. I don't think he will end up traded for Rollins or Beltran, unless we give up half the farm. Sorry for the misunderstanding. and you never know with KW.....

rustysurf83
10-17-2008, 09:48 PM
that it is likely. but, w/ Javier being in his last year of his contract in 09, he could POSSIBLY be traded. I'm not saying it WILL happen, just saying it might. Those were just possible destinations. Did anyone think Garland would be traded last year with Floyd and Danks as ? marks? I'm not trying to start any rumors, that's why I didn't make up a ridiculous trade. I just said a Castillo type player. I don't think he will end up traded for Rollins or Beltran, unless we give up half the farm. Sorry for the misunderstanding. and you never know with KW.....




I also think a Javy trade is not completely ridiculous. There is probably a GM out there who thinks that they can get his mother****ing ***** ***** **** bag head to match up with his arm. **** at this point, I'd rather DFA him than see him pitch ANY game of meaning with the Sox; as we saw with the one game playoff situation all games are of meaning. **** him

oeo
10-17-2008, 09:54 PM
I also think a Javy trade is not completely ridiculous. There is probably a GM out there who thinks that they can get his mother****ing ***** ***** **** bag head to match up with his arm. **** at this point, I'd rather DFA him than see him pitch ANY game of meaning with the Sox; as we saw with the one game playoff situation all games are of meaning. **** him

How about adding some more of this, so we can read it a little better: ****ing **** **** *****.

Nobody think it's ridiculous, it's just stupid from our point of view. We're already down a starting pitcher...trading starting pitching (and proven, innings-eating starting pitching at that) is not something we should even think about doing.

Unless you want Lance Broadway and Clayton Richard in the rotation next year, you better start being happy that we have Javy here.

rustysurf83
10-17-2008, 10:00 PM
Nobody think it's ridiculous, it's just stupid from our point of view. We're already down a starting pitcher...trading starting pitching (and proven, innings-eating starting pitching at that) is not something we should even think about doing.

Unless you want Lance Broadway and Clayton Richard in the rotation next year, you better start being happy that we have Javy here.

I have to think there is a trade to be made (somewhere) in the organization that can get us a number 4 pitcher. I would be much happier with Richard as a 5 and a new arrival as a four. I have no idea who is a reality, because lets all admit absolutely nobody saw the Griffey trade coming, so some crazy **** could go down. Maybe....is it still illegal to clone people?:redneck

Daver
10-17-2008, 10:07 PM
Threads like this crack me up.

rustysurf83
10-17-2008, 10:42 PM
Threads like this crack me up.

Players like Vazquez crack me up...
unless they are on the Sox... ****!

Daver
10-17-2008, 10:56 PM
And it keeps getting better.

kittle42
10-19-2008, 05:20 PM
Daver, you obviously don't value guts and heart enough.

russ99
10-22-2008, 02:20 PM
You've got to be kidding.
Pierre has ZERO trade value. None. He's a bench player for Torre. He played in one playoff game and has had 3 successive seasons of poor OBP and no power.
Thus, you're trading Vazquez for a minor leaguer.
Plus, giving Guillen a low OBP ballplayer with speed is dangerous.
Buy high, sell low.

Especially since we were speculating a deal MacDougal for Pierre. That will tell you how much trade value Pierre has.

But if we can't find anyone better, I could see Kenny taking a flier on Pierre for leadoff. He's been wildly successful with reclamation projects before, like Dye and Pierzynski.

WisSoxFan
10-22-2008, 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cws05champ http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2085177#post2085177)
Maybe Vazquez could be the first player to be traded for himself. That way he could start fresh here in chicago. Would that make people happy here?

Don't believe it would be a first!

XXX

I believe one of our favorites, Tito Landrum, was traded for himself between the Cardinals and the O's shortly after he ruined my 20th birthday. What an *******.

Thigpen "57"
10-22-2008, 06:32 PM
Maybe Vazquez could be the first player to be traded for himself. That way he could start fresh here in chicago. Would that make people happy here?


Brilliant!!

One questions though....

Who picks up most of his contract?

jabrch
10-23-2008, 12:30 AM
Daver, you obviously don't value guts and heart enough.

He just doesn't want it bad enough.

Javy is our best option right now in the back of the rotation. Trading him would be foolish.

WhiteSoxOnly
10-23-2008, 11:42 PM
He just doesn't want it bad enough.

Javy is our best option right now in the back of the rotation. Trading him would be foolish.

Not if Kenny can get a .500 pitcher at a cheaper rate...hell,forget
that.Screw Vasquez and his beach boy ass...i don't want to see that
stiff anywhere near the Cell next year unless he's wearing someone
else's uniform.At this stage of his career he's suddenly going to
grow a pair that matches his vaunted potential ? don't think so.
Remember how the season ended for him and all that was said ?
His manager calls him out at the most critical point of the season
to try and light a fire under his ass and he wets the bed.His own
teammates,especially AJ,can see that he just doesn't hold up under
tight circumstances...this doesn't sound like Chicago Tough to me.
I think Kenny moves him in the next couple of months.To bad we
can't know in advance how many wins we'll have next season.If it
was in the 70-80 range and we're out of contention by August 1st
then Javy probably wins 15 games cuz there's no pressure.But if
we're in the hunt all the way,he wilts like a Cub in the fall.

kittle42
10-24-2008, 08:52 AM
Not if Kenny can get a .500 pitcher at a cheaper rate...hell,forget
that.Screw Vasquez and his beach boy ass...i don't want to see that
stiff anywhere near the Cell next year unless he's wearing someone
else's uniform.At this stage of his career he's suddenly going to
grow a pair that matches his vaunted potential ? don't think so.
Remember how the season ended for him and all that was said ?
His manager calls him out at the most critical point of the season
to try and light a fire under his ass and he wets the bed.His own
teammates,especially AJ,can see that he just doesn't hold up under
tight circumstances...this doesn't sound like Chicago Tough to me.
I think Kenny moves him in the next couple of months.To bad we
can't know in advance how many wins we'll have next season.If it
was in the 70-80 range and we're out of contention by August 1st
then Javy probably wins 15 games cuz there's no pressure.But if
we're in the hunt all the way,he wilts like a Cub in the fall.

See the 5 or 6 other threads discussing this. Vazquez is fine as a 4th starter and, given the market, is affordable. There is no way he isn't on the roster next season, barring some unforeseen huge, huge maneuvers.

Lip Man 1
10-24-2008, 12:52 PM
White Sox Only:

Paragraphs are your friends and make people actually want to read your thoughts.

Lip

chisoxmike
10-24-2008, 02:30 PM
not if kenny can get a .500 pitcher at a cheaper rate...hell,forget
that.screw vasquez and his beach boy ass...i don't want to see that
stiff anywhere near the cell next year unless he's wearing someone
else's uniform.at this stage of his career he's suddenly going to
grow a pair that matches his vaunted potential ? Don't think so.
Remember how the season ended for him and all that was said ?
His manager calls him out at the most critical point of the season
to try and light a fire under his ass and he wets the bed.his own
teammates,especially aj,can see that he just doesn't hold up under
tight circumstances...this doesn't sound like chicago tough to me.
I think kenny moves him in the next couple of months.to bad we
can't know in advance how many wins we'll have next season.if it
was in the 70-80 range and we're out of contention by august 1st
then javy probably wins 15 games cuz there's no pressure.but if
we're in the hunt all the way,he wilts like a cub in the fall.

cubsz!!!!111!

Bill Naharodny
10-24-2008, 05:38 PM
He just doesn't want it bad enough.

Javy is our best option right now in the back of the rotation. Trading him would be foolish.

Even if you just consider Javy as a 4th starter, I wouldn't be so sure about him being here next year. Here's my theory:

Kenny Williams is all about winning the World Series. Period. That's all he talks about, and every move he makes is made and justified in that context. That's good, and let's take the man at his word.

If you want to win a World Series, you're doing your team a great disservice with Javier Vazquez as your 4th starter. If he's a 4th starter, that means -- in all likelihood -- that he will be starting playoff games for your team. And -- in all likelihood, given his track record -- he will pitch terribly in those games. As pressure mounts, he does worse. When he pitched for the Yankees in the '04 playoffs, he was terrible. He pitched one playoff game this year and was terrible. He pitched 3 games in the last week-and-a-half this year, when the lights were brightest, and he was terrible. In 2006, as games became more vital in August of that year, he was terrible. In fact, his best seasons in baseball have been in Montreal (no pressure) and 2007 with the White Sox (no pressure). Even the guys on here saying that Javy will stay haven't disputed that fact, and the record bears it out.

This is no longer a fluke, and Kenny Williams is no dummy. He's building a team for the World Series. And there's no way in hell that he wants a guy who pitches terribly in the playoffs and pennant races taking the mound at any point when it matters, particularly in October. He cannot be counted on, and Kenny surely knows it. (I think he knows that the other players know it, too, which is completely corrosive.) Javy's ability to eat innings is not going to solve that problem when the lights go up. And even if he's your number 4, he'll be under those lights in October. And that makes your team less likely to win the World Series than the team they're playing.

Javy's durability does give him value -- not value enough to have him in the back of a winning World Series rotation -- but value enough to trade.

Whether it happens is another story, but you better believe it's being considered seriously.

WhiteSoxOnly
10-24-2008, 10:42 PM
See the 5 or 6 other threads discussing this. Vazquez is fine as a 4th starter and, given the market, is affordable. There is no way he isn't on the roster next season, barring some unforeseen huge, huge maneuvers.

Seen 'em all pal and we just have a different opinion on what
fine means...i can't wait for him to be gone though,and he will be.

Craig Grebeck
10-24-2008, 11:15 PM
Seen 'em all pal and we just have a different opinion on what
fine means...i can't wait for him to be gone though,and he will be.
More than likely after his contract is up in 2010.

4 points
10-25-2008, 05:27 AM
"Takers for Vasquez".


How about Swisher, he takes everything else.:bandance:

WhiteOut05
10-26-2008, 12:01 AM
While I think VAGquez is good as a 5th starter, he's just shown that he can't pitch in big markets.

I say try and move him to Florida.
Here's Why:

1- Florida is surrounded by beaches for him and his family to sun bathe on.
2- Nobody really gives a **** about the Marlins, so he'd feel no pressure in any game.
3- He's cheap enough for them that they may be interested.

If we can trade him to FLA for a guy like Jeremy Hermida. I'd take it.
He's 24, so still very young, and he's already shown he can play in the big leagues. He obviously didn't have the best year in 08 (.249, 17 HR, 61 RBI, .323 OBP, .406 SLG, 6 SB). But I think he's a talent.

This would:
1- Maybe free up Kenny to see the market for JD
2- Free up some cash

And if VAGquez leaves, we can make a run at signing Paul Byrd, something I wouldn't mind.

jabrch
10-26-2008, 12:36 AM
Ruh Roh