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Fenway
10-15-2008, 12:51 AM
Nobody saw this coming.

While no one is surprised that the Rays have won twice at Fenway the lopsided results of games 3 and 4 just boggles the mind. It is safe to say the Rays are the best team in the AL as their 97 wins came much harder than Anaheim winning 100 in the west. The Rays may have won 107 or more out west.

Tampa has done a great job scouting Boston and the Red Sox injuries have caught up to them. The series should be 2-2 but Francona stayed with Becket way too long in Game 2.

Boston does have a history of bouncing back in the ALCS but to win three in a row from the Rays is asking too much. Frankly I can see the Rays dancing at Fenway Thursday night.

But having 3 wins means nothing as you need to win 4. Just ask the 2003 Flubs, 2004 Yankees or 2007 Indians.

Lip Man 1
10-15-2008, 01:06 AM
Fox and ESPN will have an absolute stroke if it's the Rays and the Phillies.

Good. It's about time the Eastern Sports Programming Network gets screwed.

No Red Sox, no Yankees, no Cubs...I might even actually watch some of it.

Lip

DSpivack
10-15-2008, 01:14 AM
Fox and ESPN will have an absolute stroke if it's the Rays and the Phillies.

Good. It's about time the Eastern Sports Programming Network gets screwed.

No Red Sox, no Yankees, no Cubs...I might even actually watch some of it.

Lip

And what a bunch of stars...Kazmir, Shields, Longoria, Crawford, Pena, Upton and company against Hamels, Lidge, Howard, Utley, Rollins, Burrell, Victorino, etc. I'd be pretty excited for that series.

cards press box
10-15-2008, 02:23 AM
Nobody saw this coming.

I don't know about this. Last month, Mark Buerhle said that the 2008 Rays reminded him of the 2005 White Sox. After watching the White Sox/Rays ALDS series, I felt that the Rays were strongest team playing right now.

Like the White Sox after game 2 of the ALDS, the Red Sox have a shot at winning three straight but it looks to be tough sledding.

Frankfan4life
10-15-2008, 02:36 AM
The Rays are in command. They have all the tools necessary to win the World Series: solid hitting, pitching, fielding, base running. So far they have dominated the Red Sox at home and I don't see any cracks showing.

I have to admire this team. They're what I would like the Sox to look like next year. But how we're going to achieve that is a mystery to me.

Scottiehaswheels
10-15-2008, 02:37 AM
They're what I would like the Sox to look like next year. But how we're going to achieve that is a mystery to me.Suck ass for 11 years and get great draft picks?

Whitesoxfan23
10-15-2008, 03:15 AM
The Rays lovefest on this board is getting rather sickening. If I wanted to see a Rays lovefest I would turn on any sports station, that has jumped on their bandwagon. I'm sure we all here don't like Boston, but I'm even more sick of the Rays lately. Give more love to the Dodgers or Phillies for christ sake.

Mohoney
10-15-2008, 03:47 AM
The Rays lovefest on this board is getting rather sickening. If I wanted to see a Rays lovefest I would turn on any sports station, that has jumped on their bandwagon. I'm sure we all here don't like Boston, but I'm even more sick of the Rays lately. Give more love to the Dodgers or Phillies for christ sake.

We get it already. You made your point. The Rays fans suck, and everybody on their bandwagon deserves to be tarred and feathered.

There is NO WAY that ANYTHING surrounding the Rays right now is as sickening as the decade old, everloving Boston boner that has been fed to us nonstop by every major media outlet.

Mohoney
10-15-2008, 03:55 AM
Nobody saw this coming.

I wanted no part of Tampa in the playoffs. I would have been happy taking my chances against anybody else.

Even in games where you can honestly say you gave your best effort, Tampa found a way to win that game. I'm sure that Boston ran into this more than once in an 18 game series in the regular season, but maybe Fenway can comment more accurately on that.

All I know is that a great deal of the White Sox's losses to Boston and Anaheim were the result of very flat play on our part. We failed to show up. Some of those games we lost to Tampa, though, were another story. There were at least 3 or 4 games where both teams played their guts out, and Tampa just found a way to come out on top.

Their bullpen is rock solid. They get big hits late in games. It's not a fluke anymore, folks.

Whitesoxfan23
10-15-2008, 05:36 AM
We get it already. You made your point. The Rays fans suck, and everybody on their bandwagon deserves to be tarred and feathered.

There is NO WAY that ANYTHING surrounding the Rays right now is as sickening as the decade old, everloving Boston boner that has been fed to us nonstop by every major media outlet.

Oh, I agree that the Red Sox love is more sickening. But at least the Red Sox fans were devoted before 2004. The reason I am rooting for Boston, is because unlike Tampa, Boston has two players that I am a fan of. I'm not a fan of any player on the Rays.

Parrothead
10-15-2008, 06:29 AM
Fox and ESPN will have an absolute stroke if it's the Rays and the Phillies.

Good. It's about time the Eastern Sports Programming Network gets screwed.

No Red Sox, no Yankees, no Cubs...I might even actually watch some of it

But they are both East Coast teams so they should be happy ! I know I will be (since the White Sox are not in):bandance:

GoSox2K3
10-15-2008, 08:03 AM
The Rays lovefest on this board is getting rather sickening. If I wanted to see a Rays lovefest I would turn on any sports station, that has jumped on their bandwagon. I'm sure we all here don't like Boston, but I'm even more sick of the Rays lately. Give more love to the Dodgers or Phillies for christ sake.

Yeah, damn those underdog Rays with their stupid low payroll and lack of national hype. I hate hate hate them!!!!! I want more Red Sox and Dodgers!!!!!! I want showboats like Manny and Papelbon in the World Series! I want big market teams that spend more than other teams can afford to win the pennant every year! :whiner: Life is so unfair! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

We get it, we heard you the first 50 times you said this.....You hate the Rays for some irrational reason....perhaps sour grapes at them being better than our team. Give it a rest already, sheesh!

DrCrawdad
10-15-2008, 08:20 AM
ALDS, Sox vs. Rays.
4 games:
Sox 13 runs
Rays 21 runs

ALCS, Other Sox vs. Rays.
4 games:
Other Sox 15 runs
Rays 31 runs

The Sox lost to the better team but the Sox at least put up a better
showing in 4 games than the Other Sox.

GO RAYS!

NLaloosh
10-15-2008, 08:20 AM
I love the fact that the Rays are having an easier time with the Red Sox than with the worn out White Sox.

If it wasn't for Dice-K the Red Sox wouldn't even stand a chance in the series.

palehozenychicty
10-15-2008, 08:46 AM
Suck ass for 11 years and get great draft picks?


Quit hating. It ain't only that. Only 4 of their draft picks are on the current ALCS roster (Upton, Crawford, Longoria, Price). The new management of Sternberg and Friedman has just made a slew of brilliant trades, signings, and picks off the scrap heap e.g. Navarro, Pena, Balfour, Percival, Bartlett, Garza, Iwamura, Kazmir, Wheeler.

The last two-three years, they had an atrocious bullpen that sabotaged a ton of leads. Now that they cleaned it up, they're just a full-fledged machine.

guillensdisciple
10-15-2008, 08:54 AM
I don't want to offend anyone from the East or West division but plainly said this year was up for grabs. I stated way back in September that the last team anyone will want to face in the playoffs will be the Rays. They are that ****ing miracle team that comes along every year such as the '03 Cubs/ Marlins, the '05 White Sox (we had no business being there), the '06 Tigers (definitely had no business being there), and the '07 Rockies (won't explain the improbabilities of that run). The Rays are the team of destiny that has found itself in a peculiar position that they have never been in. They will defeat the Red Sox in game 5 and go on to lose the World Series to the Phillies.

Unfortunately the Rays dominance may stick around for a year or two but they will slowly fade away just like the Marlins teams that won the world series previous to them. Florida teams just don't have the market to contain such talent and in order to keep such a vast array of talent the Rays are going to have to shell out a vast amount of money as well as anchor on their farm system, something they are already getting maximum contribution from.


I want to say that the White Sox could have truly been the second best team in the post season this year. Yes that is a stretch, but I didn't feel any heat from the Red Sox other then from Dice-K, every other pitchers I didn't believe had as much on the Sox. It was unfortunate that the White Sox had to play the team of destiny in three games and in the first round. Flip the switch and allow the Sox to play the Red Sox and the Rays to play the Angels and who knows how these playoffs play out. The Rays don't match well with the Angels because they are a copy- cat of each other. The Red Sox and White Sox are two teams that you couldn't pick to move on, granted many experts would pick the Red Sox over the White Sox, I believe this series would be up for grabs.


Obviously, this is all just a wish, but I have sympathy for the Red Sox. They had to feel the wrath of 'miracle' on the diamond.

Fenway
10-15-2008, 09:17 AM
All season long the Rays were winning because of run prevention. Most of the 18 games with Boston were close games which makes what has happened the last two nights shocking.

Wakefield had not pitched in 18 days and had nothing. I will never knock Wake for what he has done the past 15 years but it was obvious he had nothing last night.

Boston may have lost this series in Game 2 when Francona left Becket in too long. Tampa has kept Papelbon out for the last 2 nights and Boston has been forced to use Timlin more than they want.

Francona set the rotation to have Becket and Lester ready for the final 2 games. Now they give the ball to DiceK in Game 5 and somehow he gets the series back to St Pete. Becket has not been the same pitcher since he beat the White Sox at The Cell on August 11th. His fastball that night was hitting 98 but now he is down to 93.

IF Boston can get this to a seventh game they will win it but getting there will be a tall order. If ever a team needed a day off it is the Red Sox.

Scottiehaswheels
10-15-2008, 09:18 AM
Quit hating. It ain't only that. Only 4 of their draft picks are on the current ALCS roster (Upton, Crawford, Longoria, Price). The new management of Sternberg and Friedman has just made a slew of brilliant trades, signings, and picks off the scrap heap e.g. Navarro, Pena, Balfour, Percival, Bartlett, Garza, Iwamura, Kazmir, Wheeler.

The last two-three years, they had an atrocious bullpen that sabotaged a ton of leads. Now that they cleaned it up, they're just a full-fledged machine.I'm not hating, but honestly, a lot of those players they have now are predicated on having sucked terribly for years. How many of those players, not from their system, would they have if they didn't have the talent in the minors to trade away?

kittle42
10-15-2008, 09:30 AM
**** the Red Sox. Go Rays, or Phillies, I really don't care.

chisoxmike
10-15-2008, 09:39 AM
They are that ****ing miracle team that comes along every year such as the '03 Cubs/ Marlins, the '05 White Sox (we had no business being there), the '06 Tigers (definitely had no business being there), and the '07 Rockies (won't explain the improbabilities of that run).

The best team in baseball had no business being there?

guillensdisciple
10-15-2008, 09:42 AM
The best team in baseball had no business being there?
What I am saying is we were one of the teams that came out of nowhere and blew away the competition, just like the rest of the teams on that list.

getonbckthr
10-15-2008, 09:42 AM
And what a bunch of stars...Kazmir, Shields, Longoria, Crawford, Pena, Upton and company against Hamels, Lidge, Howard, Utley, Rollins, Burrell, Victorino, etc. I'd be pretty excited for that series.
This might end up being the best thing for baseball however. All these names will become household names.

chisoxmike
10-15-2008, 09:45 AM
What I am saying is we were one of the teams that came out of nowhere and blew away the competition, just like the rest of the teams on that list.

Oh, OK. I misinterpreted your statement.

wilburaga
10-15-2008, 09:49 AM
All season long the Rays were winning because of run prevention. Most of the 18 games with Boston were close games which makes what has happened the last two nights shocking.

Wakefield had not pitched in 18 days and had nothing. I will never knock Wake for what he has done the past 15 years but it was obvious he had nothing last night.

Boston may have lost this series in Game 2 when Francona left Becket in too long. Tampa has kept Papelbon out for the last 2 nights and Boston has been forced to use Timlin more than they want.

Francona set the rotation to have Becket and Lester ready for the final 2 games. Now they give the ball to DiceK in Game 5 and somehow he gets the series back to St Pete. Becket has not been the same pitcher since he beat the White Sox at The Cell on August 11th. His fastball that night was hitting 98 but now he is down to 93.

IF Boston can get this to a seventh game they will win it but getting there will be a tall order. If ever a team needed a day off it is the Red Sox.

I thought your prospects were worse a year ago after game 4 of the ALCS when you down 3-1 against Cleveland and were facing Fatso and Fausto in games 5 and 6. A couple of weeks later you were sipping Champagne. Chin up.

W

CHISOXFAN13
10-15-2008, 09:51 AM
I thought your prospects were worse a year ago after game 4 of the ALCS when you down 3-1 against Cleveland and were facing Fatso and Fausto in games 5 and 6. A couple of weeks later you were sipping Champagne. Chin up.

W

That team was healthy and had Manny. BIG difference.

thomas35forever
10-15-2008, 09:55 AM
Before the playoffs began, I said I'd root for the Rays if they knocked us out. Since they're playing Boston, I want them to win even more. Boston fans have had it too good for too long. They're teams have won more championships over the last seven years than more cities win in their history. They need defeat, and their acting pretentious makes them need it even more. Go Tampa.

guillensdisciple
10-15-2008, 10:01 AM
I thought your prospects were worse a year ago after game 4 of the ALCS when you down 3-1 against Cleveland and were facing Fatso and Fausto in games 5 and 6. A couple of weeks later you were sipping Champagne. Chin up.

W


True, very very true. This time though, it feels like the Rays have a strangle hold on the series. If the Red Sox win this one, you might as well pencil them in as the best franchise in baseball. Well they are anyways, but this would be further re- assurance.

chaerulez
10-15-2008, 10:49 AM
Quit hating. It ain't only that. Only 4 of their draft picks are on the current ALCS roster (Upton, Crawford, Longoria, Price). The new management of Sternberg and Friedman has just made a slew of brilliant trades, signings, and picks off the scrap heap e.g. Navarro, Pena, Balfour, Percival, Bartlett, Garza, Iwamura, Kazmir, Wheeler.

The last two-three years, they had an atrocious bullpen that sabotaged a ton of leads. Now that they cleaned it up, they're just a full-fledged machine.

Well you also have you include Delmon Young as a draft pick that helped them. Without him they don't have Garza or Bartlett.

DSpivack
10-15-2008, 11:31 AM
Well you also have you include Delmon Young as a draft pick that helped them. Without him they don't have Garza or Bartlett.

I guess, but the OP seemed to be discussing players currently on the team.

Madscout
10-15-2008, 11:37 AM
What I am saying is we were one of the teams that came out of nowhere and blew away the competition, just like the rest of the teams on that list.
We won 99 games. We led our division wire to wire. Our staff and bullpen were lights out all year. We could beat you a lot of ways. We weren't picked well at the start of the season, but make no bones about it, nobody really wanted to play us in October.

The '05 Astros and '06 Cardinals are better examples of the point you try to make.

WhiteSox5187
10-15-2008, 12:02 PM
Fox and ESPN will have an absolute stroke if it's the Rays and the Phillies.

Good. It's about time the Eastern Sports Programming Network gets screwed.

No Red Sox, no Yankees, no Cubs...I might even actually watch some of it.

Lip
Don't think Bud Selig will be pleased either (even though it shows his revenue sharing is paying off). I'd be thrilled to see a Rays Phils series and it looks like it is more and more likely.

Max Power
10-15-2008, 12:06 PM
Suck ass for 11 years and get great draft picks?

So what exactly is an acceptable strategy for building a winning team? No one likes teams- mostly the Yankees- that just outspend everyone for free agents, but making good draft choices and wise trades is, apparently, just as bad. I guess I just don't understand the hate for Tampa Bay based on how they assembled their team.

Besides, the Pirates have been bad for longer than the Rays and I don't see them contending for a World Series anytime soon.

palehozenychicty
10-15-2008, 12:14 PM
Well you also have you include Delmon Young as a draft pick that helped them. Without him they don't have Garza or Bartlett.


Exactly.

Sox4ever77
10-15-2008, 12:27 PM
Suck ass for 11 years and get great draft picks?


It's just not about having high draft picks. Those have been screwed up, look at the Pirates and Royals.

Drafting wisely and then pulling off trades, Young for Garza and their SS, is a great deal. Where would Young play?

But TB has had their share of bad picks. Some got injuried, others just didn't develop. It happens.

Fenway
10-15-2008, 12:30 PM
city in panic mode

http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/galleries/backpage_1015.jpg

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/?type=sox

Francona not in panic mode..yet

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2008/10/terry_francona.html

But Tampa might be...

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2008/10/kazmir_will_sta.html

TDog
10-15-2008, 12:44 PM
The Rays are hot, certainly. They look like a team that will win the World Series, which wouldn't be such a bad thing. I have no idea what Bud Selieg thinks about it, but he should consider it great for baseball, considering that people complain about how only the teams with money can compete. I don't think that means the Rays will easily repeat in 2009 any more than the Tigers easily repeated in 1985. But this is their time. For their fans, it may be a once-in-a-lifetime thing, so I hope they enjoy the heck out of it.

For years, people around the country have been sick of the Yankees. I think most of America was happy to see they had missed the postseason. Cheering for the Red Sox isn't the same as it was in 2004 when they hadn't won a World Series in 86 years. Going into next season, interest in the Cubs will still be at an all-time high because they were the only postseason team to go winless this year.

In the National League, you have two teams that haven't won he World Series since the 1980s, having beaten teams that a) had not won the World Series in a century and b) had never won the World Series. In the American League division series, three of the teams competing had won the World Series in this decade, and the one that had never won. That one that looked like it didn't belong is on the verge of going to the World Series. And a team that has won just one overall championship since it was founded in the 19th century seems to be on the verge of knocking off the storied team that didn't start winning championships until the 1950s.

The Cubs aren't going to happen this year. The Red Sox probably won't happen this year. It isn't 1918 (when the Cubs, by the way, considered their ballpark at Clark and Addison unsuitable for World Series baseball and hosted the Red Sox at the better ballpark at 35th and Shields), nor should it be, with a world at war, the Spanish flu raging and Babe Ruth pitching.

At the beginning of the season, many thought the loaded Cubs would be the great story, just as many thought in 1969 that the loaded Cubs would be the great story (although 61 wasn't a nice round number). The Mets instead became an incredible story. This year the Rays are a great story. To a lesser extent, the Phillies are a great story.

If baseball-televising networks want to fight it, that is where the problem lies.

PKalltheway
10-15-2008, 12:47 PM
The '05 Astros and '06 Cardinals are better examples of the point you try to make.
While the Cards barely squeaked in with a winning record, I wouldn't call them a suprise because they were a veteran ballclub that was already experienced in the postseason. The Cards being in the playoffs wasn't necessarily a suprise, it was just the way they went about getting there that was.

But Tampa might be...

http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal..._will_sta.html (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2008/10/kazmir_will_sta.html)
How is Maddon starting Kazmir in Game 5 a sign of panic?

ChiSoxFan81
10-15-2008, 01:19 PM
What is all this business about the teams in the WS the past few years not deserving to be there? Just because prior to that particular season, nobody forcasted them to be in it, that means they didn't deserve it? The '05 Sox led wire-to-wire and dominated the playoffs. The '06 Tigers were a measly win against the Royals away from winning the best division in baseball that year, and still got the wild card. The Rockies...I'll give you that. That was called getting torrid at the right time. If you want to talk about teams that shouldn't be there, how about the '06 Cards? The Sox won 90 that year and were left at home in October. The Cards won what, 83 games? In a terrible division? Yet they are excused because they were a veteran squad? How does that factor in at all? Look at what the young Rays are doing this year. It's been a long time since baseball has seen a dynasty. Sure, the Yanks in the 90's, but they haven't even won since 2000. Face it, any team, in any year, can come out of nowhere and win it all (except the Cubs, of course).

Eddo144
10-15-2008, 01:20 PM
So what exactly is an acceptable strategy for building a winning team? No one likes teams- mostly the Yankees- that just outspend everyone for free agents, but making good draft choices and wise trades is, apparently, just as bad. I guess I just don't understand the hate for Tampa Bay based on how they assembled their team.

Besides, the Pirates have been bad for longer than the Rays and I don't see them contending for a World Series anytime soon.
Um, fans of other teams hate the Yankees and their payroll. I'm sure Yankee fans don't have a problem with them spending so much money on players; I sure wouldn't if the Sox started doing the same.

Woofer
10-15-2008, 01:23 PM
I know it isn't over yet, but it does make me feel a little bit better about the way our season ended to the Rays. We played them better than the Bo-Sox have.

palehozenychicty
10-15-2008, 01:33 PM
The Rays are hot, certainly. They look like a team that will win the World Series, which wouldn't be such a bad thing. I have no idea what Bud Selieg thinks about it, but he should consider it great for baseball, considering that people complain about how only the teams with money can compete. I don't think that means the Rays will easily repeat in 2009 any more than the Tigers easily repeated in 1985. But this is their time. For their fans, it may be a once-in-a-lifetime thing, so I hope they enjoy the heck out of it.

For years, people around the country have been sick of the Yankees. I think most of America was happy to see they had missed the postseason. Cheering for the Red Sox isn't the same as it was in 2004 when they hadn't won a World Series in 86 years. Going into next season, interest in the Cubs will still be at an all-time high because they were the only postseason team to go winless this year.

In the National League, you have two teams that haven't won he World Series since the 1980s, having beaten teams that a) had not won the World Series in a century and b) had never won the World Series. In the American League division series, three of the teams competing had won the World Series in this decade, and the one that had never won. That one that looked like it didn't belong is on the verge of going to the World Series. And a team that has won just one overall championship since it was founded in the 19th century seems to be on the verge of knocking off the storied team that didn't start winning championships until the 1950s.

The Cubs aren't going to happen this year. The Red Sox probably won't happen this year. It isn't 1918 (when the Cubs, by the way, considered their ballpark at Clark and Addison unsuitable for World Series baseball and hosted the Red Sox at the better ballpark at 35th and Shields), nor should it be, with a world at war, the Spanish flu raging and Babe Ruth pitching.

At the beginning of the season, many thought the loaded Cubs would be the great story, just as many thought in 1969 that the loaded Cubs would be the great story (although 61 wasn't a nice round number). The Mets instead became an incredible story. This year the Rays are a great story. To a lesser extent, the Phillies are a great story.

If baseball-televising networks want to fight it, that is where the problem lies.


I like your synopsis, but people who follow the game intensely knew that the Rays would be much improved. Some picked them to get in as a wild card. I didn't think they'd win the AL East with 97 victories going away, but I knew that the Red Sox and Yanks would have even more problems beating them because they beefed up the bullpen. Both of those empires had trouble matching up with their speed and athleticism, especially at the Tropicana dome. Yes, their history led others to believe that they weren't a worthy contender. But this season was different. The Rays arrived in spring training, when they took it to the Yankees and Shelley Duncan. They haven't looked back since that point.

Foulke You
10-15-2008, 01:47 PM
How is Maddon starting Kazmir in Game 5 a sign of panic?
Buster Olney's take on Sportscenter was that they were starting Kazmir in Game 5 since Darryl Cousins is set to ump behind the plate for a Game 6. Apparently, Kazmir made Cousins look bad in a game against the Angels earlier in the year when he felt he was getting squeezed. After the game Kazmir ripped Cousins in the papers. Probably a smart move on Maddon's part to keep Kazmir away from pitching when Cousins is behind the plate.

Max Power
10-15-2008, 01:57 PM
Um, fans of other teams hate the Yankees and their payroll. I'm sure Yankee fans don't have a problem with them spending so much money on players.

Except this year. :D:

Max Power
10-15-2008, 01:58 PM
Nothing to see here.

Fenway
10-15-2008, 02:08 PM
What is shocking is that Boston has lost 3 of 4 home games in the post-season.

Kazmir has been hammered by the Red Sox his last 2 starts and my take is if it goes to a Game 6 Maddon would rather have Sheilds going against Josh.

Maddon is very aware that winning the fourth time against Boston is historically hard to do. If Boston can get this to Game 7 my money is on Lester but while I think they will win Game 5 winning Saturday looks iffy right now.

TDog
10-15-2008, 03:35 PM
I like your synopsis, but people who follow the game intensely knew that the Rays would be much improved. Some picked them to get in as a wild card. I didn't think they'd win the AL East with 97 victories going away, but I knew that the Red Sox and Yanks would have even more problems beating them because they beefed up the bullpen. Both of those empires had trouble matching up with their speed and athleticism, especially at the Tropicana dome. Yes, their history led others to believe that they weren't a worthy contender. But this season was different. The Rays arrived in spring training, when they took it to the Yankees and Shelley Duncan. They haven't looked back since that point.

The Rays looked like they didn't belong only because they are the only team among the four AL postseason teams that has not won the World Series in this decade. I'm not saying that any team that has been or will go to the World Series didn't belong there. You could make an argument that most teams in the postseason don't belong in the postseason from some perspective.

Obviously, you could say the White Sox looked like they didn't belong because they had fewer wins than any of the other AL postseaon teams. The Red Sox didn't belong because they didn't win their division. The Cubs and Brewers didn't belong in the NLDS because they never win anything. If the Cubs or Brewers had won a lot more than one game between them and one of the teams had made it to the World Series, you could say that team didn't belong in the World Series.

But you have to earn your way to the World Series. If you do, you belong there.

chisoxfanatic
10-15-2008, 04:20 PM
I thought your prospects were worse a year ago after game 4 of the ALCS when you down 3-1 against Cleveland and were facing Fatso and Fausto in games 5 and 6. A couple of weeks later you were sipping Champagne. Chin up.

W

That team was healthy and had Manny. BIG difference.

Another big difference between this year and last year, other than Manny no longer playing for the Carmines, is this: Last year, the Red Sox had the comfort of coming home for games 6 & 7. This year, the Red Sox do not have that comfort. If they can somehow win tomorrow night, then they have to win back-to-back games at Tropicana Field, a feat they never accomplished this year! I'd rather be in the situation they were last year in comparison to this year.

Whitesoxfan23
10-15-2008, 07:14 PM
Yeah, damn those underdog Rays with their stupid low payroll and lack of national hype. I hate hate hate them!!!!! I want more Red Sox and Dodgers!!!!!! I want showboats like Manny and Papelbon in the World Series! I want big market teams that spend more than other teams can afford to win the pennant every year! :whiner: Life is so unfair! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

We get it, we heard you the first 50 times you said this.....You hate the Rays for some irrational reason....perhaps sour grapes at them being better than our team. Give it a rest already, sheesh!

Last time I checked, I'm allowed to have a different opinion. You want to root for the Rays? Fine. I'm allowed to root against them whether or not it's the "popular" thing to do around here or not. Roll those eyes to yourself.

doublem23
10-15-2008, 07:34 PM
What I am saying is we were one of the teams that came out of nowhere and blew away the competition, just like the rest of the teams on that list.

Ridiculous. Welcome to the age of parity in the MLB, there are no more 60's-style Yankees dynasties any more. In 2005, the White Sox were the best team in baseball, pretty much from start to finish. To say they "didn't deserve to be there" because 2 years later they had a down year, is insane.

As for the Rays, the biggest reason they're were they are is their bullpen ERA dropped, what? 4 runs per game? The Rays have had an above average offense for the last few years now, that's never been their problem, they've never had any pitching. Now, with quality arms in the rotation and bullpen, it's all academic. As for 2009 and beyond, it'll all rest on their pitching staff; if the Rays bullpen ERA climbs back up to the 5-6 range, they'll suck again, if it stays in the 2-3 range, they'll be great, but most likely, it will even out somewhere between the two extremes and they'll be a good, but not great team. :dunno:

guillensdisciple
10-15-2008, 07:38 PM
Ridiculous. Welcome to the age of parity in the MLB, there are no more 60's-style Yankees dynasties any more. In 2005, the White Sox were the best team in baseball, pretty much from start to finish. To say they "didn't deserve to be there" because 2 years later they had a down year, is insane.

Sigh, yet again, I phrased that incorrectly. I was trying to say that the White Sox were one of those teams that came out of nowhere just like the other teams I mentioned with them. They shocked the world, and it has been happening every year since then.

doublem23
10-15-2008, 07:39 PM
Sigh, yet again, I phrased that incorrectly. I was trying to say that the White Sox were one of those teams that came out of nowhere just like the other teams I mentioned with them. They shocked the world, and it has been happening every year since then.

I get your point, I just don't see how that means they "didn't deserve to be there."

ode to veeck
10-15-2008, 07:45 PM
Sorry fenway, but the Rays look like the best team in the AL, if not all of MLB, and have all year, so the last 3 games are not surprizing. Sure it ain't over until the fat lady sings, but the Wrong Sox been in there plenty last few years (even in '05 they were toughest playoff team the Sox faced), so its time for Tampa to have their day (it would seem at this point)

turners56
10-15-2008, 09:03 PM
We won 99 games. We led our division wire to wire. Our staff and bullpen were lights out all year. We could beat you a lot of ways. We weren't picked well at the start of the season, but make no bones about it, nobody really wanted to play us in October.

The '05 Astros and '06 Cardinals are better examples of the point you try to make.

I don't know how you make it to the WS after starting 15-30.

Lip Man 1
10-15-2008, 09:22 PM
Double:

The question with the Rays in the future is simply this...will they pay to keep their players when they hit arbitration / free agency?

If not, they'll be right back in the dumper inside of five years.

Lip

TDog
10-15-2008, 10:05 PM
Double:

The question with the Rays in the future is simply this...will they pay to keep their players when they hit arbitration / free agency?

If not, they'll be right back in the dumper inside of five years.

Lip

Even if they do, the same players who look so good in 2008 could put the Rays back in the dumper inside of five years. A couple of starters fall off, a couple of relievers stop being effective and you may be looking up at the Blue Jays while they are looking up at a couple of teams themselves.

Some players earn their big paychecks. Others get big paychecks long after they earned them.

Soxman219
10-15-2008, 11:04 PM
The Rays lovefest on this board is getting rather sickening. If I wanted to see a Rays lovefest I would turn on any sports station, that has jumped on their bandwagon. I'm sure we all here don't like Boston, but I'm even more sick of the Rays lately. Give more love to the Dodgers or Phillies for christ sake.

I wanted the Phillies to win the WS if the White Sox didn't make it so I'm happy. :smile:

jabrch
10-16-2008, 10:12 AM
They're what I would like the Sox to look like next year. But how we're going to achieve that is a mystery to me.

If 25,000 people would guarantee 10 years of season tickets to a last place team, this would be accomplishable.

jabrch
10-16-2008, 10:14 AM
Double:

The question with the Rays in the future is simply this...will they pay to keep their players when they hit arbitration / free agency?

If not, they'll be right back in the dumper inside of five years.

Lip

They can't pay that price. But what they can do is trickle down trading, like Oakland has. There are enough very good players that they should be decent for a while.

The question is how much money they will have to spend to fill in gaps that they have.

GoSox2K3
10-16-2008, 11:58 AM
The Rays lovefest on this board is getting rather sickening. If I wanted to see a Rays lovefest I would turn on any sports station, that has jumped on their bandwagon. I'm sure we all here don't like Boston, but I'm even more sick of the Rays lately. Give more love to the Dodgers or Phillies for christ sake.

Last time I checked, I'm allowed to have a different opinion. You want to root for the Rays? Fine. I'm allowed to root against them whether or not it's the "popular" thing to do around here or not. Roll those eyes to yourself.

In summary, you're allowed to have an opinion about the Rays but the rest of us are not (after all, we're just jumping on the bandwagon if we have a favorable view of the Rays). I completely understand now and am rolling those eyes to myself.

guillensdisciple
10-16-2008, 01:23 PM
I get your point, I just don't see how that means they "didn't deserve to be there."

I'll have to edit that, sorry.

soxpride724
10-16-2008, 08:58 PM
Fox and ESPN will have an absolute stroke if it's the Rays and the Phillies.

Good. It's about time the Eastern Sports Programming Network gets screwed.

No Red Sox, no Yankees, no Cubs...I might even actually watch some of it.

Lip

I'm with you man, I kinda like the sound of a Rays Phils series. I haven't been watching much lately, but a series like that will grab my attention.

chisoxfanatic
10-16-2008, 09:01 PM
I'm with you man, I kinda like the sound of a Rays Phils series. I haven't been watching much lately, but a series like that will grab my attention.
Me too. I might actually switch from hockey to watch a little bit of the World Series. I'm just so happy that two teams that are "lesser known" teams are going to be there. Baseball needs this to help balance things out.

ode to veeck
10-17-2008, 12:44 PM
great rally by the red sox whether you hate them or the rays more .. and the fat lady gets a ticket to tampa where it will be decided for whom she songs