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View Full Version : Better Defensive Right Fielders than Dye?


PennStater98r
10-13-2008, 11:52 AM
My brother and I were chatting the other day, and he made the comment that he didn't think I could name five full-time right fielders that were better defensively than Dye - and I don't think I could. He didn't think I could name any at all in the AL (being that Ichiro's been playing CF a lot).

What do you guys think?

Eddo144
10-13-2008, 11:57 AM
Nick Markakis
JD Drew
Denard Span
Kosuke Fukudome
Andre Ethier

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more.

Dye's much-maligned defensively, but he's not as bad as his detractors make him out to be. He doesn't have much range, but he still has a good arm (above-average strength and accuracy). He seems to have decent closing speed and is willing to dive to catch a ball.

whitesox901
10-13-2008, 11:58 AM
Endy Chavez, he play's a little right field IIRC

Billy Ashley
10-13-2008, 12:00 PM
In no particular order:

American League-

Markakis
Rios
Drew
Gross
David Murphy


In the NL

Giles
Hermida
Fukudome


Dye isn't a good fielder

btrain929
10-13-2008, 12:02 PM
In no particular order:

American League-

Markakis
Rios
Drew
Gross
David Murphy


In the NL

Giles
Hermida
Fukudome


Dye isn't a good fielder

You just listed 10 (although I don't know about Murphy and Gross). There's 30 in baseball. So he's in the top 1/3. I'd call that good.

Combine his good arm, avg-below avg range, and good offense, he's definitely not a liability.

Lukin13
10-13-2008, 12:03 PM
Mercy!

Franklin Gutierrez
Fukudome
JD Drew
Randy Winn
Alex Rios
Nick Markakis
Denard Span
Ichiro
Justin Upton
Ryan Church
Brian Giles
Elijah Dukes
Andre Etheir
Jeff Francoeur
Corey Hart
Jeremy Hermida
Hunter Pence
Ryan Ludwick
Brad Hawpe

Lukin13
10-13-2008, 12:04 PM
You just listed 10 (although I don't know about Murphy and Gross). There's 30 in baseball. So he's in the top 1/3. I'd call that good.

Combine his good arm, avg-below avg range, and good offense, he's definitely not a liability.

There are not 30 everyday RF in baseball.

Billy Ashley
10-13-2008, 12:05 PM
You just listed 10 (although I don't know about Murphy and Gross). There's 30 in baseball. So he's in the top 1/3. I'd call that good.

Combine his good arm, avg-below avg range, and good offense, he's definitely not a liability.


That was off the top of my head, and only regulars. He's not a good defensive baseball player.

He's a tremendously valuable baseball player because he is a very good hitter. However the White Sox defense in the outfield is likely on of the worst in baseball.

Now that's fine because they also tear the freaking cover off the ball and as a result they make up for it. Additionally, Swisher is a fine defensive corner outfielder playing out of position, so that's not his fault.

Gross is also an excellent fielder btw.

Billy Ashley
10-13-2008, 12:06 PM
Mercy!

Franklin Gutierrez
Fukudome
JD Drew
Randy Winn
Alex Rios
Nick Markakis
Denard Span
Ichiro
Justin Upton
Ryan Church
Brian Giles
Elijah Dukes
Andre Etheir
Jeff Francoeur
Corey Hart
Jeremy Hermida
Hunter Pence
Ryan Ludwick
Brad Hawpe


HA! I love your list. It's likely more correct than incorrect but I don't know much about Ludwick's D nor Hawpe's.

If I posted that, I'd get torn into.

Dye was once a pretty good fielder. He then suffered a bunch of really bad injuries and now is a DH in waiting.

jabrch
10-13-2008, 12:09 PM
He still has a + arm. He's got below average speed/quickness. He reads balls well.

He's middle of the pack somewhere (between 33% and 66%), probably closer to 33%.

Either way, he's a bargain at his price when looked at as a whole. It would be much easier to make up for him if we had a + Range CF. Nick and Griff exposed JD's lack of lateral range even more.

Lukin13
10-13-2008, 12:10 PM
HA! I love your list. It's likely more correct than incorrect but I don't know much about Ludwick's D now Hawpe's.

If I posted that, I'd get torn into.

Hawpe also sucks.

JD would be tolerable with an above average CF, because he is sure-handed.

btrain929
10-13-2008, 12:10 PM
he still has a + arm. He's got below average speed/quickness. He reads balls well.

He's middle of the pack somewhere (between 33% and 66%), probably closer to 33%.

Either way, he's a bargain at his price when looked at as a whole. it would be much easier to make up for him if we had a + range cf. Nick and griff exposed jd's lack of lateral range even more.

+1.

DumpJerry
10-13-2008, 12:10 PM
:dye:
Thanks for the love, guys......

Lukin13
10-13-2008, 12:12 PM
The only "everyday" RF that are worse than Dye are Magglio and Bobby Abreu.

I also think Dye "looks worse" than he actually is because he moves so awkwardly.

Billy Ashley
10-13-2008, 12:14 PM
Hawpe also sucks.

JD would be tolerable with an above average CF, because he is sure-handed.


how many outfielders are not sure handed? As far as catching the ball in the outfield, there isn't really much to it. Hell, I could catch the ball as well as the average outfielder. I'm also slow, would take bad reads and have a wimpish throwing arm, that's pretty much Dye with the exception of the throwing arm.

The most important skills for an outfielder are:

1. Making good reads
2. Getting good jumps
3. Having speed
4. Having an accurate arm
5.Having a strong arm
6. Being able to catch something that's hit at you (something just about every outfielder does well)

He's good at 4-6- and while the arm helps, the fact that he's a semi-functional human being when a ball is hit at him isn't an asset. It's a requirement.

Billy Ashley
10-13-2008, 12:17 PM
The only "everyday" RF that are worse than Dye are Magglio and Bobby Abreu.

I also think Dye "looks worse" than he actually is because he moves so awkwardly.

He might be better than Vladdy who sadly isn't much in the field anymore given his back and leg issues. Also he's always had one of the strongest arms in the game but lacks the consistency in accuracy to really dissuade a runner from going 2nd to third.

forrestg
10-13-2008, 12:17 PM
when Paulie was not hitting in April, May, June, and July, I really believed that we might see JD at first. Maybe we could see him audition there in spring training..........Seems like good outfielders are not as hard to find.

35th and Shields
10-13-2008, 02:12 PM
when Paulie was not hitting in April, May, June, and July, I really believed that we might see JD at first. Maybe we could see him audition there in spring training..........Seems like good outfielders are not as hard to find.

Does anywhere here care about defense at all? JD is not a first baseman.

Sox4ever77
10-14-2008, 12:51 AM
Ichiro moved back to RF and should be considered a full time RF. He's better than Dye.

LoveYourSuit
10-14-2008, 01:03 AM
IMO Dye had his best year this year with the glove since joining the Sox. '05 comes a close second.

That said, he is not great but I think every corner OF in baseball is there for reason. Corner OFs by rule are not that great with the glove. Ichiro himself will give you a few head scratchers :scratch: here and there .

WhiteSox5187
10-14-2008, 03:10 AM
He sure as hell doesn't look graceful out there, but at the end of the day I think he makes the plays he should make. I don't recall his defense hurting us particularly this year.

tstrike2000
10-14-2008, 10:37 AM
Hawpe also sucks.

JD would be tolerable with an above average CF, because he is sure-handed.

Dye's a little more mobile version of Vlad Guerrero minus Vlady's cannon but typically has half Vlad's errors. They both lumber towards to the ball.

Billy Ashley
10-15-2008, 04:11 PM
Dye's a little more mobile version of Vlad Guerrero minus Vlady's cannon but typically has half Vlad's errors. They both lumber towards to the ball.


What's sad is that both were once plus defenders. Injuries stole that from them.

Though they can still rake.

LoveYourSuit
10-16-2008, 12:17 AM
What's sad is that both were once plus defenders. Injuries stole that from them.

Though they can still rake.


I think it has to do more with age than injuries.

soxfanreggie
10-16-2008, 02:06 AM
He doesn't move well, in the field or on the basepaths...I think we all get mad at "the trot", but once he gets the ball in his hands, he can rocket the thing.

oeo
10-16-2008, 09:05 AM
IMO Dye had his best year this year with the glove since joining the Sox. '05 comes a close second.

2005 was the same, but with more range due to not being slow as hell. How was 2008 better?

Dye, like Griffey, did a great job in the outfield. It's just the lack of speed that's killing them these days.

asindc
10-16-2008, 09:10 AM
how many outfielders are not sure handed? As far as catching the ball in the outfield, there isn't really much to it. Hell, I could catch the ball as well as the average outfielder. I'm also slow, would take bad reads and have a wimpish throwing arm, that's pretty much Dye with the exception of the throwing arm.

The most important skills for an outfielder are:

1. Making good reads
2. Getting good jumps
3. Having speed
4. Having an accurate arm
5.Having a strong arm
6. Being able to catch something that's hit at you (something just about every outfielder does well)

He's good at 4-6- and while the arm helps, the fact that he's a semi-functional human being when a ball is hit at him isn't an asset. It's a requirement.

I disagree that JD takes bad reads. He is just much slower and more awkward than most OFs. In fact, I think he compensates rather well for those deficiencies with good reads on the ball. Whenever he does not get to the ball it is rarely because of a bad route taken to it, but because he is not fast enough to get there.

kitekrazy
10-16-2008, 11:53 AM
how many outfielders are not sure handed? As far as catching the ball in the outfield, there isn't really much to it.

Unless you are Josh Fields.

UofCSoxFan
10-16-2008, 02:42 PM
You just listed 10 (although I don't know about Murphy and Gross). There's 30 in baseball. So he's in the top 1/3. I'd call that good.

Combine his good arm, avg-below avg range, and good offense, he's definitely not a liability.

Good arm: relevant to evaluating Dye defenisively
Avg-below avg range: relevant to evaluating Dye defensively (in a very negative way)
Offense: completely irrelevant to evaluating Dye defensively

He once was a very good defensive OF, like in his days in KC. He's very slow right now and relies on his good instincts to be slightly below average, much like Griffey in center. He still has a good arm, which unfortunately he gets to use a lot because balls drop in around him.

I like Dye, and given our lack of a DH spot, I don't mind him out there, but to say he's good defensively is ridiculous.

Fortunately, corner OF is an offense first position.

schmitty9800
10-16-2008, 04:54 PM
The most important skills for an outfielder are:

1. Making good reads
2. Getting good jumps
3. Having speed
4. Having an accurate arm
5.Having a strong arm
6. Being able to catch something that's hit at you (something just about every outfielder does well)

He makes good reads IMO, I think they help compensate for his awful speed. I say he's still average thanks to the strong arm but definitely on the decline.

PennStater98r
10-16-2008, 05:12 PM
He makes good reads IMO, I think they help compensate for his awful speed. I say he's still average thanks to the strong arm but definitely on the decline.

I think another part of it is that he plays such a deep RF.