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Thome25
10-08-2008, 11:17 AM
I was going to call this the all time ******* team or the all time jagbag team but I didn't think it was appropriate for a thread title. With Orlando Cabrera's impending departure I got to thinking about how much of a pain in the ass he was. Then I started thinking about all-time pain in the ass players in White Sox history. (Good riddance to OC when and if he finally does leave.)

Off the top of my head I'd have to name OC, Albert Belle, Jamie Navarro, Tony Phillips, and David Wells. Frank Thomas is borderline because at times, he was a major *******. But, I'll leave him off because personally I still like him.

So how many can you name? What is your most infamous story associated with these players?

thomas35forever
10-08-2008, 11:22 AM
Jack Parkman.

hi im skot
10-08-2008, 11:23 AM
Has Cabrera really been that big of an issue?

Seriously...

popilius
10-08-2008, 11:23 AM
Off the top of my head in recent years:

Rick White
Jose Paniagua

Of coure, these guys didn't spend to much time with the Sox, (and understatement for Paniagua), but their attitudes were poor. . .

Thome25
10-08-2008, 11:25 AM
Has Cabrera really been that big of an issue?

Seriously...

I'd have to seriously say yes. OC is a major asshat.

asindc
10-08-2008, 11:27 AM
I have an intense dislike for David Wells. I think he only came here because of the money and did not want to be here at all.

Thome25
10-08-2008, 11:28 AM
I have an intense dislike for David Wells. I think he only came here because of the money and did not want to be here at all.

He didn't even come here for the money. He came here because Gord Ash blessed us with his presence by trading him to the White Sox.

hi im skot
10-08-2008, 11:31 AM
I'd have to seriously say yes. OC is a major asshat.

I don't really like Cabrera either, but what's the big deal?

-He calls the official scorer. Apparently this happens more than we fans know.

-His "run-in" with Dye. C'mon, worse stuff happens in every clubhouse in baseball.

-His comments late in the season. Yeah, they backfired, but ultimately I believe he was trying to fire up the team.

-The Balfour "incident." Balfour's a douche...who cares?


Sorry, I'm happy that he's leaving (it's been expected since April), but I don't see him as someone with "bad character."

Sox4ever77
10-08-2008, 11:40 AM
I don't really like Cabrera either, but what's the big deal?

-He calls the official scorer. Apparently this happens more than we fans know.

-His "run-in" with Dye. C'mon, worse stuff happens in every clubhouse in baseball.

-His comments late in the season. Yeah, they backfired, but ultimately I believe he was trying to fire up the team.

-The Balfour "incident." Balfour's a douche...who cares?


Sorry, I'm happy that he's leaving (it's been expected since April), but I don't see him as someone with "bad character."


I think a lot of clubhouse stuff gets blown out of portion. I'm sure most of us had fights with their brothers and sisters that were knock down, dragged out brawls. To think that 25 guys from all different backgrounds will go through 7-8 months together without any drama and fights is naive.

kittle42
10-08-2008, 11:42 AM
AJ has to be on this list, whether we love him or not.

kjhanson
10-08-2008, 11:43 AM
Has Cabrera really been that big of an issue?

Seriously...

I didn't have that big a problem with Cabrera because I don't mind players who demand self-responsibility out of teammates. However, in his last at-bat against Sonnanstine I had enough. He took two 86 mph fastballs right down the middle, and had no intention of swinging at either. I can understand the first one, because in a 4-run game we desperately need baserunners. But the second time it happened was inexcusable. It looked like he gave up on the team right then and there. And then his last at-bat against Balfour what does he do? He swings at the first pitch, a 95 mph fastball on the outside corner. It made no sense and frustrated me to no end.

Lip Man 1
10-08-2008, 11:45 AM
Ferris Fain. Came to the Sox from the Philadelphia A's in the early 1950's. Won at least one, if memory serves, A.L. batting title.

Was supposed to solve the 1st base position. He was nothing but a royal pain in the rear end. Got into a fight on a dance floor in Washington D.C. was sued for punching out a guy and the police came looking for him in the Sox locker room after a game against the Senators.

There is also conflicting reports of an accident in Washington involving Nellie Fox. A row of lockers fell on him pinning him under them and causing some injuries. There were reports that Fain pushed the lockers down on Fox.

He played with the Sox in 1953 and 1954. His nickname was "ol' Burrhead."

Lip

Rockabilly
10-08-2008, 11:57 AM
Even though I am a huge fan of his and hope he comes back to the Sox organzation but I will have to put Black Jack on the list..

Thome25
10-08-2008, 11:58 AM
Black Jack and AJ? Wow.........just wow. These are guys we loved and still love. If were going that route then the next name I'm gonna read is Carlton Fisk.

Rockabilly
10-08-2008, 12:01 PM
Black Jack and AJ? Wow.........just wow. These are guys we loved and still love.

Black Jack has done some things that I don't agree with

He bad mouth Minnie Minoso

Gave the middle finger to the fans

Bad mouth his teammates and the Sox organzation

Lip Man 1
10-08-2008, 12:08 PM
Rock:

Just to be clear, he gave the middle finger to Yankee fans in N.Y. not Sox fans.

Lip

hi im skot
10-08-2008, 12:11 PM
Rock:

Just to be clear, he gave the middle finger to Yankee fans in N.Y. not Sox fans.

Lip

I who hasn't wanted to flip off a Yankee fan or two?

Rockabilly
10-08-2008, 12:12 PM
Rock:

Just to be clear, he gave the middle finger to Yankee fans in N.Y. not Sox fans.

Lip


I know but that still makes him a bad character guy.. I was just using that as an example. The other things that I said happen in a Sox uniform

I really hope that Black Jack is our next radio guy...

SoxSpeed22
10-08-2008, 12:17 PM
Wil Cordero somehow hasn't been mentioned yet.

sox1970
10-08-2008, 12:18 PM
Jon Rauch--leaving before the game ended.

TDog
10-08-2008, 12:20 PM
Ferris Fain. Came to the Sox from the Philadelphia A's in the early 1950's. Won at least one, if memory serves, A.L. batting title.

Was supposed to solve the 1st base position. He was nothing but a royal pain in the rear end. Got into a fight on a dance floor in Washington D.C. was sued for punching out a guy and the police came looking for him in the Sox locker room after a game against the Senators.

There is also conflicting reports of an accident in Washington involving Nellie Fox. A row of lockers fell on him pinning him under them and causing some injuries. There were reports that Fain pushed the lockers down on Fox.

He played with the Sox in 1953 and 1954. His nickname was "ol' Burrhead."

Lip

When I was a kid, I had a baseball encyclopedia I used to read for fun, and it had abbreviations for reasons why players missed time during a season. I think LJ was leg injury, for example. Ferris Fain, I believe, was the only player who had JA next to his name, or whatever the initials were for "jailed for assault." I don't know if that was during a White Sox season, however.

I trust you when you say he was a bad guy.

Ferris Fain had a great baseball name, though. And it was an easy rhyme, giving him a place in the song Van Lingle Mungo. It also inspired Svengooli on Screaming Yellow Theater to often stick him into fake movie promos -- i.e., "Now back to Ferris, Fain, Johnny Sain, Denny McLain and Zeke the Wonder Feret in 'The Chicago White Sox Story' or 'I'll pitch if Wilbur Wood.'"

From what I've read, there were bad characters on the Sox in 1919, of course. But the worst human being ever to play for the team was probably Albert Belle.

Rockabilly
10-08-2008, 12:21 PM
Wil Cordero somehow hasn't been mentioned yet.

This guy is probably the biggest jerk of all time..

tacosalbarojas
10-08-2008, 12:29 PM
Wil Cordero somehow hasn't been mentioned yet.
Amazing. Yet Rick White got a mention. What the hell did he ever do?

Cangelosi CF
10-08-2008, 12:34 PM
Art Shires from the 1930s. Dude talked a lot of trash, couldn't back it up.

Iwritecode
10-08-2008, 12:35 PM
Does Jamie Navarro count as a bad character or would he just be listed under "bad pitcher"?

FedEx227
10-08-2008, 12:37 PM
Black Jack and AJ? Wow.........just wow. These are guys we loved and still love. If were going that route then the next name I'm gonna read is Carlton Fisk.

But that's the problem with this thread.

It's the all "Bad Characters" that didn't win us a World Series list.

If we win the World Series OC is instantly a hero ala AJ and Carl Everett. Don't get it twisted AJ is an *******. He's our *******, but still. Everett was a douche across his entire career. OC didn't go anything overtly "bad", the stuff that happened to him happens all the time on clubs.

Hell the Rays had a full out fist fight in their dugout, a yelling match on the mound and a player taken out of the game multiple times for lack of hustling, but that's helped them out more than anything.

BleacherBandit
10-08-2008, 12:42 PM
The media likes to pick on Ozzie...He insulted Mariotti, although it was warranted, he called him the wrong word with the media listening.

We also know about Mags and Ozzie, so I guess you could put him up there...I'm still not sure though. He's not an asshat to the organization, but alot of people think he's rude concerning other people.

kittle42
10-08-2008, 12:45 PM
But that's the problem with this thread.

It's the all "Bad Characters" that didn't win us a World Series list.

If we win the World Series OC is instantly a hero ala AJ and Carl Everett. Don't get it twisted AJ is an *******. He's our *******, but still. Everett was a douche across his entire career. OC didn't go anything overtly "bad", the stuff that happened to him happens all the time on clubs.

Yup. Just because we as fans like a guy doesn't mean he isn't an *******.

Frontman
10-08-2008, 12:48 PM
Are we going just with the time when they were in a Sox uniform or overall?

If its overall, got to include Sammy Sosa and Jose Canseco.

And as much as I disliked Frank's personality; I wouldn't say it was character problems. To me, "bad character" are guys who either cause far too much trouble for their team or act in a way that is distracting to the rest of the team. I think Frank just was too cocky for his own good at times.

raven1
10-08-2008, 01:00 PM
Don't forget to add John Kruk - retiring in the middle of a game after reaching a meaningless personal milestone.

LITTLE NELL
10-08-2008, 01:09 PM
Top of the list has to go to Claudell Washington.

asindc
10-08-2008, 01:19 PM
Don't forget to add John Kruk - retiring in the middle of a game after reaching a meaningless personal milestone.

That was planned ahead of time. Mutually agreed upon by team management and the player. Injuries had caught up to him and that was his curtain call. I was at the game in Baltimore when it happened. Even the Baltimore fans knew it was coming. He received a standing ovation when pinch-ran for.

areilly
10-08-2008, 01:27 PM
Black Jack has done some things that I don't agree with

Don't forget the drunken barfights and his inability to stand up for hismelf when batters would come after him.

And mind you, the guy was one of my favorite ballplayers of all time. Probably still is.

Railsplitter
10-08-2008, 01:42 PM
Arnold "Chick" Gandil. Instigator of the 1919 Series fix, but who wasn't hurt by by the ban since he had already retired.

cub killer
10-08-2008, 03:31 PM
Bobby Howry. That punk talked smack about the Sox after he was signed by the losers up north. Well, we all know how his career up there went.

AJ, Black Jack and Cabrera are not bad character kind of guys. What Cabrera said this season was no big deal. I think he did a good job for us.

Rdy2PlayBall
10-08-2008, 03:36 PM
Seriously, OC? He hasn't really done anything wrong to the Sox and it's fans at all. He said some things but everyone does. You are just following what others say by hating Cabrera. I personaly thing the Sox kind of need this guy next year for a good 2 spot. Better to have a guy with some experience and isn't too old rather than a young guy who we arn't too sure about yet. (no, not talking about Alexei, just any new rookie we try and get or something)

tstrike2000
10-08-2008, 03:42 PM
Amazing. Yet Rick White got a mention. What the hell did he ever do?

In 2003, Rick White called out Jerry Manuel saying he didn't know how to manage pitchers or when to change pitchers in game situations. He was probably right. However, comments like that coupled with the fact he sucked ass led to his release that season.

chet34lemon
10-08-2008, 03:52 PM
Tony Phillips

oeo
10-08-2008, 03:56 PM
Has Cabrera really been that big of an issue?

Seriously...

Yeah, this thread sucks. Maybe he wasn't the greatest clubhouse guy, but we're going to put him in the same category as Albert Belle?

Eddo144
10-08-2008, 04:00 PM
Bobby Howry. That punk talked smack about the Sox after he was signed by the losers up north. Well, we all know how his career up there went.

And Neal Cotts should have more pride than to play for the scrubs. After all the great times he had with us in 2005, he shoulda told Jim Hendry "Sorry man, I just can't do it." It's still surreal and disturbing seeing Neal out there in the cub uniform.

AJ, Black Jack and Cabrera are not bad character kind of guys. What Cabrera said this season was no big deal. I think he did a good job for us.
I really hope this is supposed to be teal. I'll ignore the ridiculous implication that playing for the Cubs is a character deficiency, and just point out Cotts was traded to the Cubs, and thus they owned his contract. His choices were to play for the Cubs or find a new profession.

hi im skot
10-08-2008, 04:05 PM
And Neal Cotts should have more pride than to play for the scrubs. After all the great times he had with us in 2005, he shoulda told Jim Hendry "Sorry man, I just can't do it." It's still surreal and disturbing seeing Neal out there in the cub uniform.


Give me a ****ing break.

Risk
10-08-2008, 04:09 PM
Give me a ****ing break.

+1. That posters reasoning was beyond asinine.

Risk

asindc
10-08-2008, 04:10 PM
And Neal Cotts should have more pride than to play for the scrubs. After all the great times he had with us in 2005, he shoulda told Jim Hendry "Sorry man, I just can't do it." It's still surreal and disturbing seeing Neal out there in the cub uniform.

Stop it. Please.

Zisk77
10-08-2008, 04:10 PM
Rock:

Just to be clear, he gave the middle finger to Yankee fans in N.Y. not Sox fans.

Lip


And he was a Yankee at the time to boot.


How about:

Albert Belle
Wil Cordero
Jaime Navarro
David Wells
Jose Paniagua
Kenny Lofton
George Bell
Royce Clayton
D'Angelo Jimenez
Bobby Howry
Scott Eyre
Jon Rausch

Frontman
10-08-2008, 04:51 PM
Don't forget to add John Kruk - retiring in the middle of a game after reaching a meaningless personal milestone.

Forgot about that. Yeah, definately should be on the low class bad character team.

Frontman
10-08-2008, 04:52 PM
Bobby Howry. That punk talked smack about the Sox after he was signed by the losers up north. Well, we all know how his career up there went.

And Neal Cotts should have more pride than to play for the scrubs. After all the great times he had with us in 2005, he shoulda told Jim Hendry "Sorry man, I just can't do it." It's still surreal and disturbing seeing Neal out there in the cub uniform.

AJ, Black Jack and Cabrera are not bad character kind of guys. What Cabrera said this season was no big deal. I think he did a good job for us.

While I can't stand the Flubs as much as the next guy, I agree with everyone else. Please stop.

I would say Cotts would of been low-class to refuse the trade. He's a professional, and should conduct himself as such.

asindc
10-08-2008, 05:08 PM
Forgot about that. Yeah, definately should be on the low class bad character team.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2080303&postcount=32

Frontman
10-08-2008, 05:11 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2080303&postcount=32

Ah. If everyone was in on it, nevermind. His wikipedia profile leaves it up to interpretation.

kittle42
10-08-2008, 05:28 PM
cub killer: horrible reasoning.

Foulke You
10-08-2008, 05:36 PM
My top 3:

Jaime Navarro- His famous quote of "I can't hit for the guys, I can only pitch" after giving up 8 earned runs in a start really sticks with me. Y'know Jaime, Todd Ritchie may have sucked as bad as you in a Sox uniform but at least he didn't act like an ass while he was sucking.

Royce Clayton- Taking his spikes off in the dugout making him unavailable for pinch running when Jerry Manuel called on him sealed his fate and earned him a swift release and mercifully ending the Clayton era on the South Side. Then has the nerve to say to the media after he was let go that he did "everything that was asked of him" while with the Sox and bragged about setting our franchise fielding % record for a shortstop. Yeah, Royce, you were great.

David Wells- Showed up to Sox training camp fatter than ever. Never cared at all about pitching for the White Sox and was hurt and bad while he was here. The only good thing he contributed was the nickname "Kotex Boy" for Jay Mariotti. After his exit from the White Sox, he gets his fat ass in shape, and pitches great for the Yankees. A team he evidently cared a lot more about than the White Sox. I will forever hate David Wells for his behavior and performance in 2001. When Iguchi lit him up in the 2005 ALDS, it made me extremely happy and I felt some vindication.

asindc
10-08-2008, 05:40 PM
David Wells- Showed up to Sox training camp fatter than ever. Never cared at all about pitching for the White Sox and was hurt and bad while he was here. The only good thing he contributed was the nickname "Kotex Boy" for Jay Mariotti. After his exit from the White Sox, he gets his fat ass in shape, and pitches great for the Yankees. A team he evidently cared a lot more about than the White Sox. I will forever hate David Wells for his behavior and performance in 2001. When Iguchi lit him up in the 2005 ALDS, it made me extremely happy and I felt some vindication.

Very nice summation of why I mentioned him in the first place. He will forever be known as "Fat Bastard" to my brother and me.

TommyJohn
10-08-2008, 05:41 PM
I'll second Art Shires. Besides having a big mouth, he was also belligerent. He got into a couple of fights with manager Lena Blackburne, once when he was told to take off a red hat he was wearing in batting practice. And the White Sox Encyclopedia details the donnybrook he had with Lou Barbour, the White Sox' traveling secretary, who nearly had his thumb bitten off.

Albert Belle. He just seemed like a miserable human being. Of course, I never met, so I haven't seen his lovable side.

cheezheadsoxfan
10-08-2008, 05:41 PM
I'll admit to being short on details but I recall Eddie Stanky (AKA The Brat) being a real pain in the ass.

tacosalbarojas
10-08-2008, 06:20 PM
In 2003, Rick White called out Jerry Manuel saying he didn't know how to manage pitchers or when to change pitchers in game situations. He was probably right. However, comments like that coupled with the fact he sucked ass led to his release that season.Exactly. This hardly puts him in company with Belle, Gandil, Cordero, Wells and others mentioned here.

TDog
10-08-2008, 06:27 PM
...

And Neal Cotts should have more pride than to play for the scrubs. After all the great times he had with us in 2005, he shoulda told Jim Hendry "Sorry man, I just can't do it." It's still surreal and disturbing seeing Neal out there in the cub uniform. ...

So when the Sox traded Neal Cotts for David Aardsma and Carlos Vasquez after the 2006 season, Cotts should have refused to report?

During an offseason when Jerry Hairston Jr. was on the Cubs' roster, I talked to Jerry Hairston Sr. and asked former White Sox player and son of a former White Sox player how he felt about his son playing for the Cubs. He said he was happy for his son and a proud father. His son had a job playing major league baseball.

viagracat
10-08-2008, 06:37 PM
I'll admit to being short on details but I recall Eddie Stanky (AKA The Brat) being a real pain in the ass.

In a book the late Jerome Holtzman wrote, supposedly Stanky ripped a jersey to shreds during a postgame conference because he didn't like a reporter's question.

If we're including managers, how can you not include Terry Bevington?

As far as players go, I'd go with Belle. As far as I know, AJ has fit in with the Sox, Sox fans like him for his gamesmanship and he's not a clubhouse problem. Can't say the same things about Belle.

JNS
10-08-2008, 06:38 PM
OC was intense and looking to max out his numbers, but to call him a player or person of bad character is being a bit, uh over-sensitive.

Working a guy over because he played for the Cubs isn't even worth commenting on. These guys are professional baseball players, not fans.

Most of the other guys deserve to be there, managed by Stanky, who had all of Lopez's coaches quit on him, and (so I have read) an old-fashioned southern racist. And he ruined a pretty good contending team built on great pitching and defense.

How about Joe Cowley (not the Sun-Times writer) who pitched for the Sox in 1986?

I don't have details, but I remember various players going on about how disliked he was in the clubhouse and how happy they were to see him gone. Maybe someone here has the real story?

PatK
10-08-2008, 06:47 PM
Will Cordero's bad behavior happened before he was with the Sox, IIRC.

Steelrod
10-08-2008, 07:06 PM
Albert Belle, period.

Lip Man 1
10-08-2008, 07:11 PM
Rock:

This will explain some things:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=11&id=2085

Viagra:

This is what you are talking about:

May 8, 1966 - New Sox manager Eddie Stanky gives an real indication that this season is not going to be like any other, and that he’s a lot different from former skipper Al Lopez. On this date after the Sox dropped a 3 - 1 eleven inning game to the Tigers, Stanky was asked by reporter Watson Spoelstra of the Detroit News what pitch Bob Locker threw to the Tigers Gates Brown in a key situation (Brown would get a two RBI double in the eleventh off it.) Stanky, who was preparing to change into his street clothes, went temporarily crazy. He launched an abusive tirade at Spoelstra while ripping his jersey to pieces. Then he took off his spikes and threw them crashing against the wall! The media were astonished (perhaps so was Stanky!)

TJ:

This is for you:

May 15, 1929 - Sox outfielder Art “The Great” Shires and manager Lena Blackburne get into a fistfight in the Sox clubhouse. Blackburne knocked Shires out cold.

Lip

BleacherBandit
10-08-2008, 07:44 PM
Haha, all this talk of bad character players makes me remember some idiots who didn't play for the White Sox, but played in Chicago...Randall Simon played for the Cubs one season...remember when he hit that running sausage in Milwaukee?

Carolina Kenny
10-08-2008, 07:54 PM
Ferris Fain. Came to the Sox from the Philadelphia A's in the early 1950's. Won at least one, if memory serves, A.L. batting title.

Was supposed to solve the 1st base position. He was nothing but a royal pain in the rear end. Got into a fight on a dance floor in Washington D.C. was sued for punching out a guy and the police came looking for him in the Sox locker room after a game against the Senators.

There is also conflicting reports of an accident in Washington involving Nellie Fox. A row of lockers fell on him pinning him under them and causing some injuries. There were reports that Fain pushed the lockers down on Fox.

He played with the Sox in 1953 and 1954. His nickname was "ol' Burrhead."

Lip.

Also got busted for growing pot. One strange old dude.

Foulke You
10-08-2008, 08:13 PM
Very nice summation of why I mentioned in the first place. He will forever be known as "Fat Bastard" to my brother and me.
The funny thing was I remember how excited I was when KW traded for David Wells. After years of being patient with our farm system with Ron Schueler, we finally had a gunslinging GM who was "going for it" by acquiring a bonifide Cy Young 20 win type ace which our rotation lacked in 2000. We won 95 games in 2000 and adding a 20 game winner like David Wells was supposed to take us to the next level. It totally blew up in our faces because Wells never even bothered to care about the White Sox organization or our fans. Injuries to the rest of the pitching staff (the year of the torn labrum) and Frank Thomas turned '01 into a complete bust and one of the more disappointing seasons in recent Sox history...that is until 2007 came along.:tongue:

34rancher
10-08-2008, 08:41 PM
are you all feeling ok? How does this discussion go this long without samememe Sosa's name not coming up?

Nellie_Fox
10-08-2008, 08:45 PM
are you all feeling ok? How does this discussion go this long without samememe Sosa's name not coming up?

See below, from much earlier in the thread.

Are we going just with the time when they were in a Sox uniform or overall?

If its overall, got to include Sammy Sosa and Jose Canseco.

ode to veeck
10-08-2008, 08:57 PM
AJ has to be on this list, whether we love him or not.

bite your tongue, AJ's been nothing but a hard nosed ball player while he's been here; he's great character all around, other than teach Crede how to party like an animal

remember ventura
10-08-2008, 09:00 PM
royce clayton.

i've never seen a guy with a greater inflated sense of worth.

ode to veeck
10-08-2008, 09:07 PM
how about Goose Gossage breaking his hand in a fight with a teamate in the locker room. I loved Goose, but the incident tells you a lot about the guy; you just didn't want to cross him, lol.

TDog
10-08-2008, 09:17 PM
I'll admit to being short on details but I recall Eddie Stanky (AKA The Brat) being a real pain in the ass.

Eddie Stanky played for the Brooklyn Dodgers, and he wasn't a particularly nice person. This link (http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:ENaJNJbMRA0J:www.baseballlibrary.co m/jackierobinson/excerpt.php%3Fdate%3D19470411+Eddie+Stanky%2BJacki e+Robinson%2Bpetition&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us) reaveals some clubhouse stuff about Stanky that certaily doesn't reflect well on him when considered with 2008 sensibilities.

Vernam
10-08-2008, 09:48 PM
Ron LeFlore

Vernam

Rockabilly
10-08-2008, 11:25 PM
Rock:

This will explain some things:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=11&id=2085

Viagra:

This is what you are talking about:

May 8, 1966 - New Sox manager Eddie Stanky gives an real indication that this season is not going to be like any other, and that he’s a lot different from former skipper Al Lopez. On this date after the Sox dropped a 3 - 1 eleven inning game to the Tigers, Stanky was asked by reporter Watson Spoelstra of the Detroit News what pitch Bob Locker threw to the Tigers Gates Brown in a key situation (Brown would get a two RBI double in the eleventh off it.) Stanky, who was preparing to change into his street clothes, went temporarily crazy. He launched an abusive tirade at Spoelstra while ripping his jersey to pieces. Then he took off his spikes and threw them crashing against the wall! The media were astonished (perhaps so was Stanky!)

TJ:

This is for you:

May 15, 1929 - Sox outfielder Art “The Great” Shires and manager Lena Blackburne get into a fistfight in the Sox clubhouse. Blackburne knocked Shires out cold.

Lip


Thank you for the article.. It was nice to read his thougts

WhiteSox5187
10-08-2008, 11:47 PM
bite your tongue, AJ's been nothing but a hard nosed ball player while he's been here; he's great character all around, other than teach Crede how to party like an animal
Everything I've read about AJ (with the exception of his time in SF) makes it sound like he's just very high strung and very supersticious, but off the field is fine with his teammates. I know he and Javy got into it late in the year, but within minutes they were patting each other on the back so I think that was a heat of the moment sort of thing. I don't think AJ is necessarily hated by his teammates, I think he drives them nuts, but all in all is a good guy. My cousin met him and said he was rather nice.

I think the '98 team might have had the worst collection of charecters, there was Belle, Caruso (who I read was a jerk), Cordero...not a pleasent clubhouse to hang around in.

sullythered
10-09-2008, 04:14 AM
Carlos Castillo

Bucky F. Dent
10-09-2008, 06:50 AM
Arnold "Chick" Gandil. Instigator of the 1919 Series fix, but who wasn't hurt by by the ban since he had already retired.

Well that took a long time. List begins and ends with Chick Gandil.

Frontman
10-09-2008, 07:14 AM
How about the 800 lbs gorilla in the room (minus 650 lbs) and I hate to suggest it but,


Joe Crede? He really hasn't conducted himself as a member of the team for close to two years. Say what you will about Jose Contreras being older than Julius Cesear; when able to he's been in attendance at the games, travelled with the team, etc. Same with Carlos Quentin.

I know we all loved his performances on the field, but really, has he been a team player since 2006?

tstrike2000
10-09-2008, 07:28 AM
Exactly. This hardly puts him in company with Belle, Gandil, Cordero, Wells and others mentioned here.

Well, it depends on how you look at it. Wells didn't care about being here and we were glad he left. Belle and Cordero were asses, but neither of those guys called out their manager during their short tenures with the Sox and stayed relatively quiet while here. White on the other hand sucked in a Sox uniform, didn't take responsibility for sucking, and called out the manager in the media which you don't do. Right or not, the guy was an ass on a ballclub that really could've used a good reliever on an '03 team that was fighting for first. Since White was useless, Williams had to try garbage like Paniagua, who also could make the bad character list. We all know how that turned out.

TommyJohn
10-09-2008, 07:38 AM
I forgot about George Bell, the other side of the Sosa trade. He called out Gene Lamont on the eve of the 1993 ALCS, a move that got him benched. Not that his .226 average would've helped much in the series, anyway. Still, that move was pretty much the end for him.

Thome25
10-09-2008, 08:37 AM
Shouldn't Terry "Boom Boom" Bevington be the manager of the All time bad character team?

JNS
10-09-2008, 08:20 PM
Eddie Stanky played for the Brooklyn Dodgers, and he wasn't a particularly nice person. This link (http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:ENaJNJbMRA0J:www.baseballlibrary.co m/jackierobinson/excerpt.php%3Fdate%3D19470411+Eddie+Stanky%2BJacki e+Robinson%2Bpetition&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us) reaveals some clubhouse stuff about Stanky that certaily doesn't reflect well on him when considered with 2008 sensibilities.

I didn't realize he was on the Dodgers in 47. I knew about Dixie Walker.

To hell with 2008! What I read doesn't reflect well on him when considered with 1947 sensibilities.

I knew he was a racist, I didn't know he was one of the original Robinson haters. He deserves to manage the All-Bad-Character team for sure!

cheezheadsoxfan
10-09-2008, 09:22 PM
How about the 800 lbs gorilla in the room (minus 650 lbs) and I hate to suggest it but,


Joe Crede? He really hasn't conducted himself as a member of the team for close to two years. Say what you will about Jose Contreras being older than Julius Cesear; when able to he's been in attendance at the games, travelled with the team, etc. Same with Carlos Quentin.

I know we all loved his performances on the field, but really, has he been a team player since 2006?

I think it's going to be awhile until we know the whole story on Crede, his back, who said what to who, etc. Until then I'll reserve judgement.

Also, I see this discussion as an overall character issue. Even if Crede's been less than a perfect teammate the last year and a half, that hardly puts him in the same category with Sosa, Stanky (a manager, true, but wore the uniform), Canseco, Belle, etc. From everything I've read he seems to be a pretty decent citizen.

MHOUSE
10-09-2008, 10:10 PM
Bobby Howry. That punk talked smack about the Sox after he was signed by the losers up north. Well, we all know how his career up there went.

And Neal Cotts should have more pride than to play for the scrubs. After all the great times he had with us in 2005, he shoulda told Jim Hendry "Sorry man, I just can't do it." It's still surreal and disturbing seeing Neal out there in the cub uniform.

AJ, Black Jack and Cabrera are not bad character kind of guys. What Cabrera said this season was no big deal. I think he did a good job for us.

The gascan was pretty good the last two years before this one. Personally, I was happy to see him giving up dingers to the Crew during the final weekend that got Milwaukee into the playoffs. I still like Cotts. Can you honestly fault a guy for not turning down a paycheck? I mean if you start deciding which teams you're willing to play for based on fan allegiences alone then you're not gonna be around long.

My vote for poor character would have to go to Jose Bread and Water. He finally gets called on to pitch with the MLB team, gets lit up in one appearance, and disses the fans when they boo him to the dugout. What a joke. There's a reason he hasn't been to the bigs since. I think there's a huge difference between a lack of class and just being a crappy player. I don't recall Rick White starting trouble in the clubhouse, but correct me if I'm wrong.

EDIT: I totally forgot about Royce Clayton. He was the definition of clubhouse cancer. Didn't he show up in sneakers one game and refuse to put his spikes on?

Britt Burns
10-10-2008, 09:59 AM
If Jaime Navarro isn't at the bginning, middle, and end of this list there is something seriously wrong.

Chez
10-13-2008, 07:54 AM
Wanna buy a watch? Todd Cruz!

TDog
10-13-2008, 02:57 PM
I didn't realize he was on the Dodgers in 47. I knew about Dixie Walker.

To hell with 2008! What I read doesn't reflect well on him when considered with 1947 sensibilities.

I knew he was a racist, I didn't know he was one of the original Robinson haters. He deserves to manage the All-Bad-Character team for sure!

You're right. I cut him too much slack by considering "2008 sensibilities." But Stanky outgrew racital hatred, at least to the degree that he could manage black ballplayers, although I don't know how black ballplayers felt about playing for him. Certainly the episode illustrates that Stanky was an angy man.

My father grew up a Brooklyn Dodgers fan (before cheering for the White Sox against the Los Angeles Dodgers in the 1959 World Series) and told me about Dixie Walker. He left out Eddie Stanky, who he once told me was a good man. I'm guessing Stanky's actions in 1947 were not widely known.

johnr1note
10-13-2008, 02:59 PM
Eddie Stanky played for the Brooklyn Dodgers, and he wasn't a particularly nice person. This link (http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:ENaJNJbMRA0J:www.baseballlibrary.co m/jackierobinson/excerpt.php%3Fdate%3D19470411+Eddie+Stanky%2BJacki e+Robinson%2Bpetition&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us) reaveals some clubhouse stuff about Stanky that certaily doesn't reflect well on him when considered with 2008 sensibilities.

This link:

http://www.baseballlibrary.com/jackierobinson/excerpt.php?date=19470422

is a followup to the one TDog cites, and shows that when Stanky had the opportunity, he redeemed himself to a degree. According to the account, Stanky's actions were a turning point in the Dodgers accepting Robinson as a team mate. Stanky wasn't so bad after all.

Sometimes it pays to read the whole story before you judge.

TDog
10-13-2008, 05:18 PM
This link:

http://www.baseballlibrary.com/jackierobinson/excerpt.php?date=19470422

is a followup to the one TDog cites, and shows that when Stanky had the opportunity, he redeemed himself to a degree. According to the account, Stanky's actions were a turning point in the Dodgers accepting Robinson as a team mate. Stanky wasn't so bad after all.

Sometimes it pays to read the whole story before you judge.

Or, as I alluded to in the other character thread in the clubhouse, isn't so much a matter of good and evil, but of most players displaying traits of both good and bad character. Some people have good reason to believe believe Carlton Fisk is a real jerk, but others have great experiences to relate about him.

On one end of the spectrum, you have Albert Belle. On the other you have Harold Baines. There are a few people clustered with those two, but it's like a bell-shaped curve. Most players are bunched toward the middle.

ode to veeck
10-13-2008, 05:22 PM
Shouldn't Terry "Boom Boom" Bevington be the manager of the All time bad character team?

yeah he should and add Hawk Harrelson to the front office of the all bad team as GM. Maybe he can talk Fisk outa retirement to play OF

roylestillman
10-13-2008, 11:56 PM
Shouldn't Terry "Boom Boom" Bevington be the manager of the All time bad character team?

On my list, since the live post-game interview when he blamed Sox fans for his team losing by using the inverted logic that his team loses because nobody shows up.

Sentimental favorite Claudell "Washington Slept Here" Washington.

I had repressed Royce Clayton.

sunofgold
10-14-2008, 09:38 PM
Solely for his drug abuse. Seems like he had most of his major drug problems after leaving the WHITE SOX. It appears though that he has reformed his life and doesn't take drugs now. Thus, a reformed bad character. Still, being a drug abuser, has to be considered a bad character trait.

Also, ironically, we made a trade to SD that included Hoyt and we receive OZZIE GUILLEN!

TDog
10-14-2008, 09:49 PM
Solely for his drug abuse. Seems like he had most of his major drug problems after leaving the WHITE SOX. It appears though that he has reformed his life and doesn't take drugs now. Thus, a reformed bad character. Still, being a drug abuser, has to be considered a bad character trait.

Also, ironically, we made a trade to SD that included Hoyt and we receive OZZIE GUILLEN!

LaMarr Hoyt actually wasn't a bad guy. He wasn't very outgoing. His substance abuse tendencies weren't helped by being traded so close to the Mexican border. His teammate Eric Show was a much worse character.

LongLiveFisk
10-14-2008, 09:49 PM
Are we going just with the time when they were in a Sox uniform or overall?

If its overall, got to include Sammy Sosa and Jose Canseco.

I would think just in a Sox uniform. In this case, you couldn't really say Sosa because he really didn't become a full-blown ass until he wore that Cubbie blue.

Maybe it's just the uniform.

TDog
10-14-2008, 09:53 PM
I would think just in a Sox uniform. In this case, you couldn't really say Sosa because he really didn't become a full-blown ass until he wore that Cubbie blue.

Maybe it's just the uniform.

Some would say Sosa, who apparenlty wasn't named in the Mitchell Report, was a worse character as a member of the White Sox. He was never caught with a corked bat with the White Sox (neither was Albert Belle), but he did beat his wife with a rum bottle when he was with the White Sox.

sunofgold
10-15-2008, 12:07 PM
I would say part crazy, part bad. I remember him saying in 2006 after being traded that the WHITE SOX didn't have any leaders left on their team . I think that he said that Willie Harris was a team leader (?).

He also had been involved in a lot of altercations with umpire. Carl and his wife were charged with child abuse.

And a lot of his views of life are just crazy. He doesn't believe that dinosaurs ever existed.

hi im skot
10-15-2008, 12:18 PM
I would say part crazy, part bad. I remember him saying in 2006 after being traded that the WHITE SOX didn't have any leaders left on their team . I think that he said that Willie Harris was a team leader (?).


Carl Everett correctly predicted the Sox would miss the playoffs.

Carl Everett is king.

Twin Killing
10-15-2008, 12:25 PM
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Ron Santo. A total jerk in his short time with the Sox.

JNS
10-15-2008, 02:47 PM
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Ron Santo. A total jerk in his short time with the Sox.

As he continues to be to this very day. Makes me feel of so good about the Killer Cubbies and all the angst, eBay loyalty sales, etc. :redface:

OK.

-- Manager: Stanky
-- 3B coach: Bevington
-- 1B coach: ?

-- 1B Chick Gandil/Ferris Fain
-- 2B Todd Cruz & Santo (he played 2nd for the Sox cause Melton was 3B)
-- SS Caruso/Clatyton
-- 3B ?
-- LF George Bell
-- CF Ron LeFlore - doped up a lot of the time
-- RF Pat Kelly - a good guy but a BAD dude. Hey - he dated Pam Grier! Actually Pat was a really nice guy - I was just making a bad joke.
-- C Fisk - He's the exception that proves the rule! Seriously, I can't think of any bad-guy catchers. Shalk, Lollar, J.C. Martin, Cam Carreon, Hermann, Fisk, Karko, AJ, all tough players and decent human beings.

-- Starters: Cicotte, Cowley, Dangerous Bart Johnson (he reformed later but was an headhunter while pitching), Early Wynn (threw at his own kid!), Navarro.

-- Re livers; I dunno. Juan "say it ain't gone" Agusto?

-- Owners: All of them except Veeck!

hi im skot
10-15-2008, 02:52 PM
-- C Fisk - He's the exception that proves the rule! Seriously, I can't think of any bad-guy catchers. Shalk, Lollar, J.C. Martin, Cam Carreon, Hermann, Fisk, Karko, AJ, all tough players and decent human beings.


So is he cool or not? :D:

Konerko05
10-15-2008, 02:54 PM
I would say part crazy, part bad. I remember him saying in 2006 after being traded that the WHITE SOX didn't have any leaders left on their team . I think that he said that Willie Harris was a team leader (?).

He also had been involved in a lot of altercations with umpire. Carl and his wife were charged with child abuse.

And a lot of his views of life are just crazy. He doesn't believe that dinosaurs ever existed.

Don't you ever say a bad word about Carl Everett again. He is a great man.

"Where ma wife?"

JNS
10-15-2008, 02:55 PM
You're right. I cut him too much slack by considering "2008 sensibilities." But Stanky outgrew racital hatred, at least to the degree that he could manage black ballplayers, although I don't know how black ballplayers felt about playing for him. Certainly the episode illustrates that Stanky was an angy man.

My father grew up a Brooklyn Dodgers fan (before cheering for the White Sox against the Los Angeles Dodgers in the 1959 World Series) and told me about Dixie Walker. He left out Eddie Stanky, who he once told me was a good man. I'm guessing Stanky's actions in 1947 were not widely known.

Honestly I'm thinking more of the nastiness and chaos he perpetrated while managing the Sox in the late 60s. He destroyed Lopez's team and was widely hated by coaches, players, fans, and reporters.

JNS
10-15-2008, 02:57 PM
So is he cool or not? :D:

I can't think of anything bad about the guy other than his inability to call a game in less than 6 1/2 hours!

Any ideas for a **** head catcher out there?

whitesox901
10-15-2008, 02:59 PM
Bobby Bonds because he's related to Barry

JNS
10-15-2008, 03:04 PM
Bobby Bonds because he's related to Barry

Good one! And he was a not-nice guy himself. Barry got it some someone. Also, he was traded for Claudell Washington.

Jimmy Piersoll once said he felt like strangling Washington. "The guy has so much God-given talent and he's just wasting it - I sometimes just feel like strangling him!"

But Claudell doesn't belong on the bad-character team. Maybe the all-lazy team. I think he's now a coach on the A's.

sox1970
10-15-2008, 03:10 PM
Good one! And he was a not-nice guy himself. Barry got it some someone. Also, he was traded for Claudell Washington.

Jimmy Piersoll once said he felt like strangling Washington. "The guy has so much God-given talent and he's just wasting it - I sometimes just feel like strangling him!"

But Claudell doesn't belong on the bad-character team. Maybe the all-lazy team. I think he's now a coach on the A's.

Who could forget the "Washington Slept Here" sign in RF?

JNS
10-15-2008, 03:26 PM
:o:Who could forget the "Washington Slept Here" sign in RF?

I think it was LF - that's where he played. Yeah, that sign was hilarious after he let that popup hit him square on the top of his head!

I think Charlie Finley scouted and drafted him right out of Berkley HS, although that's just a vague memory - I could be wrong about that.

Hey - how about Steve Lyons? Not a "bad" guy, but he did drop trou on 1st base!

Lip Man 1
10-15-2008, 09:19 PM
JNS:

You sure you're not confusing Washington and Ron LeFlore whom in a game at Comiskey Park in 1982 vs. Boston had a fly ball hit him on the bill of his cap in the outfield and drop for a hit.

Lip

sunofgold
10-15-2008, 09:47 PM
Shoeless Joe Jackson

&

Mike Jackson

TDog
10-16-2008, 02:51 AM
...
-- RF Pat Kelly - a good guy but a BAD dude. Hey - he dated Pam Grier! Actually Pat was a really nice guy - I was just making a bad joke. ...

After Pat Kelly left the Sox, he became an ordained minister.

sunofgold
10-16-2008, 09:44 PM
There a lot of people outside of Chicago who think that Ozzie is a bad character. They are wrong, but I don't think that you change that perception.

JNS
10-16-2008, 10:03 PM
JNS:

You sure you're not confusing Washington and Ron LeFlore whom in a game at Comiskey Park in 1982 vs. Boston had a fly ball hit him on the bill of his cap in the outfield and drop for a hit.

Lip

I remember the LeFlore incident, but this was a few years earlier. Veeck still had the team, Jimmy and Harry were in the booth. Must have been 79 - Washington's second year on the team. Left field. Just a normal fly ball. He got a late jump because his attention has wondered and it hit him on the head. Jimmy went nuts, especially after the game. It was one of many bad losses on a bad team - not a memorable time on the field. In other ways it represented some fantastic stuff - Harry and Jimmy were fantastic, Veeck and Hemond were doing the best they could under the circumstances. I don't remember who they were playing or at what point of the season it was, although it must have been fairly late in the year - July or August. It got late early out there in those days!