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getonbckthr
10-07-2008, 04:59 PM
Do we have a logical package we could offer for him? Floyd, Poreda and Fields? Or would they require more?

btrain929
10-07-2008, 05:03 PM
Do we have a logical package we could offer for him? Floyd, Poreda and Fields? Or would they require more?

Yep. I wouldn't be surprised if they demanded TCQ in the deal. Danks and Alexei would have to be on board too.

Next thread.

Jimmy Piersall
10-07-2008, 05:04 PM
Do we have a logical package we could offer for him? Floyd, Poreda and Fields? Or would they require more?

Take Floyd off the list and add Shelby & BA...:wink:

Domeshot17
10-07-2008, 05:17 PM
Im fairly certain we would be looking at a package of Danks-Poreda-Richard and the rights to Beckham.

Besides, he has never been a guy to show up much in October thusfar. The higher pressure things (WBC and Playoffs) have resulted in him being hit.

kittle42
10-07-2008, 05:34 PM
Let the silly trade ideas begin!!! :redneck

JermaineDye05
10-07-2008, 06:05 PM
Do we have a logical package we couldi offer for him? Floyd, Poreda and Fields? Or would they require more?

Damn you beat me to the post. I'm actually wearing my Peavy jersey right now. I wish we had enough to get Jake, he's my favorite pitcher in baseball right now. I would be ecstatic if Kenny got him, but considering how valuable he is and considering the Padres offensive problems, I would not be surprised if Carlos had to be part of the package and one if not both of Floyd and Danks. I don't think the risk is worth the reward for Peavy, sure he's one of the best pitchers in baseball right now and almost a guaranteed win when he's on the hill, but Danks and Floyd are 2 quality young arms that could be a force in the rotation for a while. I would be fine giving up one of them for Jake, but not both. Plus you factor in Quentin who's probably one of the more feared and promising young hitters in baseball right now.

Lefty34
10-07-2008, 06:08 PM
Let the silly trade ideas begin!!! :redneck

Ok I got it, this is a lock. I just made this work in MLB 2K8:

Konerko and Dotel for Peavy and a crappy minor leaguer who makes too much money.

Boom. Get on it, KW.

turners56
10-07-2008, 06:10 PM
Ok I got it, this is a lock. I just made this work in MLB 2K8:

Konerko and Dotel for Peavy and a crappy minor leaguer who makes too much money.

Boom. Get on it, KW.

I wish we all lived within a video game world.

Billy Ashley
10-07-2008, 07:44 PM
No, the White Sox at this given time could not trade for Peavy with out giving up one of Danks/Quentin.

Peavy is comparable to Santana. Santana as a rental cost a ton and allegedly would have cost NY Hughes, Cabrera, Ian Kennedy (and that was an asesome package not too long ago) or Boston Ellsbury or Lester plus Lowrie or Moss and Masterson.

If Peavy is going to pay a metric ton for him.

kittle42
10-07-2008, 08:25 PM
I wish we all lived within a video game world.

Give it a few months. Many here will.

Brian26
10-07-2008, 08:38 PM
Im fairly certain we would be looking at a package of Danks-Poreda-Richard and the rights to Beckham.

I wouldn't make that trade even if Beckham was not included.

It's one thing to give up corners outfielders like Reed, Sweeney or Young, as those guys are fairly replaceable. I would never give up Danks-Poreda-and Richard. That's very possibly 3/5 of your rotation in a couple of years.

Domeshot17
10-08-2008, 12:36 AM
I wouldn't make that trade even if Beckham was not included.

It's one thing to give up corners outfielders like Reed, Sweeney or Young, as those guys are fairly replaceable. I would never give up Danks-Poreda-and Richard. That's very possibly 3/5 of your rotation in a couple of years.

Oh I agree entirely. I wasn't saying do it, I was saying thats my guess of a price.

I would consider Floyd-Poreda-Richard just because I don't have a ton of faith in the back end guys. Richard looked nice in the playoffs but the rays do not hit lefties well but he had a 6 era in the season. I am one of the few that thinks Poreda is the next Matt Thornton because he doesn't have anything but a fastball and a change up.

Floyd would hurt, but if it meant a rotation of Peavy-Danks-Burls-Javy-5th SP from FA (say Freddy Garcia haha), thats a top 3 rotation in the MLB, Peavy and Danks young enough to be here for a WHILE, I could not pass that up.

Ziggy S
10-08-2008, 02:49 AM
Thus begins another episode of the Bckthr Unrealistic Trade Proposal Series, an undening program broadcasted all year long.

kittle42
10-08-2008, 10:24 AM
Thus begings another episode of the Bckthr Unrealistic Trade Proposal Series, an undening program broadcasted all year long.

No ****. And before anyone tells me to stay out of all trade threads this offseason, I'm not going to. I have too much fun getting angry at them.

Then again, George Costanza once came up with a way to get Bonds and Griffey, and not have to give up that much!

ChiSoxFan81
10-08-2008, 10:27 AM
Peavy is not going to happen. Even if the Padres made him available, they'd likely want young talent, which we have a dearth of. Otherwise, they'd want a quality pitcher in return, along with proven offense. Besides, if a guy is a household name, he probably isn't on KW's radar.

pythons007
10-08-2008, 10:49 AM
Damn you beat me to the post. I'm actually wearing my Peavy jersey right now. I wish we had enough to get Jake, he's my favorite pitcher in baseball right now. I would be ecstatic if Kenny got him, but considering how valuable he is and considering the Padres offensive problems, I would not be surprised if Carlos had to be part of the package and one if not both of Floyd and Danks. I don't think the risk is worth the reward for Peavy, sure he's one of the best pitchers in baseball right now and almost a guaranteed win when he's on the hill, but Danks and Floyd are 2 quality young arms that could be a force in the rotation for a while. I would be fine giving up one of them for Jake, but not both. Plus you factor in Quentin who's probably one of the more feared and promising young hitters in baseball right now.

Peavy is not an automatic win when he is on the hill. 10 wins this year and since he has been pitching has only reached 15 wins twice (15, 19). Sure its because his team's offense sucks ass, but he would be jumping to the AL. He would be leaving one of the best pitchers parks in all of baseball and coming to one of the best hitters parks. All of his numbers jump up when he isn't pitching at PETCO.
Career stats
ERA at home 2.77
ERA away 3.80
WHIP at home 1.09
WHIP away 1.30
HR at home 47
HR away 81

Those numbers are alarming, and again those are NL numbers! The homers away is unbelievable! I would rather keep our players and let Peavy stay in SD.

kittle42
10-08-2008, 11:22 AM
Peavy is not an automatic win when he is on the hill. 10 wins this year and since he has been pitching has only reached 15 wins twice (15, 19). Sure its because his team's offense sucks ass, but he would be jumping to the AL. He would be leaving one of the best pitchers parks in all of baseball and coming to one of the best hitters parks. All of his numbers jump up when he isn't pitching at PETCO.
Career stats
ERA at home 2.77
ERA away 3.80
WHIP at home 1.09
WHIP away 1.30
HR at home 47
HR away 81

Those numbers are alarming, and again those are NL numbers! The homers away is unbelievable! I would rather keep our players and let Peavy stay in SD.

That is alarming. Petco is a cavernous park. He wouldn't be so dominant elsewhere.

jabrch
10-08-2008, 11:26 AM
It's one thing to give up corners outfielders like Reed, Sweeney or Young, as those guys are fairly replaceable.

Replaceable because...

They are no good. Chris Young finished his season .248/.315/.443. Sweeney is a powerless corner. And Reed hit .269/.314/.360.

All of them are BA-like options. Flawed players with an isolated strength, but not guys you want in your lineup every day.

Craig Grebeck
10-08-2008, 12:34 PM
Replaceable because...

They are no good. Chris Young finished his season .248/.315/.443. Sweeney is a powerless corner. And Reed hit .269/.314/.360.

All of them are BA-like options. Flawed players with an isolated strength, but not guys you want in your lineup every day.
One of these does not belong. Chris Young is not Brian Anderson; he is not Ryan Sweeney; he is not Jeremy Reed.

He had a tremendous second half and is still young.

chaerulez
10-08-2008, 12:35 PM
Peavy isn't a realistic option at all.

kittle42
10-08-2008, 12:45 PM
Peavy isn't a realistic option at all.

There will be even more unrealistic options over the winter. Can't wait!

Tragg
10-08-2008, 12:55 PM
Im fairly certain we would be looking at a package of Danks-Poreda-Richard and the rights to Beckham.


How nice....next year we could win 60 games with Peavy, just like the Padres did.

Boondock Saint
10-08-2008, 01:30 PM
Good God. Is there an "absurd irrational thoughts" switch that gets flipped as soon as the season ends? Let me help get us through the offseason by killing several birds with one stone. Here's several players that we can somehow acquire in a trade, in several WSI posters heads.

Ichiro
Jose Reyes
Josh Hamilton
Hanley Ramirez
Grady Sizemore
Roy Halladay
Brandon Webb
Dan Haren
Tim Lincecum
Alex Rodriguez
Cole Hamels
Jimmy Rollins
Chase Utley


Now there is no need to post about acquiring any of the aforementioned players in the coming months.

kittle42
10-08-2008, 01:49 PM
Good God. Is there an "absurd irrational thoughts" switch that gets flipped as soon as the season ends? Let me help get us through the offseason by killing several birds with one stone. Here's several players that we can somehow acquire in a trade, in several WSI posters heads.

Ichiro
Jose Reyes
Josh Hamilton
Hanley Ramirez
Grady Sizemore
Roy Halladay
Brandon Webb
Dan Haren
Tim Lincecum
Alex Rodriguez
Cole Hamels
Jimmy Rollins
Chase Utley


Now there is no need to post about acquiring any of the aforementioned players in the coming months.

Don't forget absolutely anyone good on Pittsburgh and Florida because HENDRY THE THEIF could!

I can't believe it's getting started this early this offseason. Christ, the champagne from last week is hardly flat yet.

Ziggy S
10-08-2008, 03:52 PM
Don't forget absolutely anyone good on Pittsburgh and Florida because HENDRY THE THEIF could!

I can't believe it's getting started this early this offseason. Christ, the champagne from last week is hardly flat yet.

Agreed, but why talk about a dumbass with the user name Hangar18.

kittle42
10-08-2008, 05:50 PM
Agreed, but why talk about a dumbass with the user name Hangar18.

Big H is my good friend!

Foulke You
10-08-2008, 05:50 PM
Peavy is not an automatic win when he is on the hill. 10 wins this year and since he has been pitching has only reached 15 wins twice (15, 19). Sure its because his team's offense sucks ass, but he would be jumping to the AL. He would be leaving one of the best pitchers parks in all of baseball and coming to one of the best hitters parks. All of his numbers jump up when he isn't pitching at PETCO.
Career stats
ERA at home 2.77
ERA away 3.80
WHIP at home 1.09
WHIP away 1.30
HR at home 47
HR away 81

Those numbers are alarming, and again those are NL numbers! The homers away is unbelievable! I would rather keep our players and let Peavy stay in SD.
I was just going to post something similar but you beat me to the punch. Excellent post. I've always felt that Peavy was a bit overrated. I'd rather keep Gavin Floyd who is also young and now proven in the AL. I've always been gun shy of NL pitchers with moderate success coming to the our club. Perhaps Jaime Navarro, Todd Ritchie, and Javier Vazquez have something to do with it.:tongue:

Brian26
10-08-2008, 08:29 PM
It's one thing to give up corners outfielders like Reed, Sweeney or Young, as those guys are fairly replaceable. I would never give up Danks-Poreda-and Richard.

Replaceable because...

They are no good. Chris Young finished his season .248/.315/.443. Sweeney is a powerless corner. And Reed hit .269/.314/.360.

All of them are BA-like options. Flawed players with an isolated strength, but not guys you want in your lineup every day.

All three of the prospects I named had very high ceilings when they were traded. My point is that good, young corner outfield prospects are easier to replace in your system than good, young lefthanded pitching. Whether or not Reed, Sweeney or Young ever pan out is ancillary in the conversation.

guillensdisciple
10-08-2008, 09:42 PM
Don't want him, we need an addition to the pitching staff, not a complete overhaul.

Billy Ashley
10-09-2008, 09:26 AM
Don't want him, we need an addition to the pitching staff, not a complete overhaul.


This is very true, the White Sox need depth more than upper shelf talent in their rotation.

They are weak in regards to SS, 3b, OF Defense, and bench. SS isn't that big a deal, as unfortunately a lot of teams are fairly weak there. Also Ramirez could possibly play passable defense at short and Williams could go after a stopgap option at second. 3b and pitching depth are the two main issues. Unfortunately pitching of all sorts costs a ton these days (Lohse is a pretty good example), so who ever they pick up at the end of the rotation isn't likely to be very good. The good news is that they don't have to be.

3b is a big issue of course.

The Outfield defense will be very hard to change given that Swisher can't move back to first and Dye and Quentin are way too good offensively to let go, despite their weaknesses in the field. That said, they managed just fine this year despite the OF defense, so perhaps they should just focus on adding another starter and a 3b while also figuring out what to do about SS.

chaerulez
10-09-2008, 10:07 AM
There will be even more unrealistic options over the winter. Can't wait!

I think we should get that Hanley fellow that plays down in Miami. He's not mentioned to much on that ESPN, so he should be easy to get right?

veeter
10-09-2008, 10:19 AM
Give it a few months. Many here will.Excatly. This stuff drives me nuts.

kittle42
10-09-2008, 10:49 AM
Excatly. This stuff drives me nuts.

Yet, I continue to read it, because I enjoy knocking down people's outlandish and completely unrealistic ideas. Unfortunatley, they never change. These are the same type of people who call into sports radio programs with Superfans-esque sounding voices and act like they know it all.

"Ehhhhhhhhh, da Bearz should get dat Tomlinson."

Sockinchisox
10-13-2008, 03:32 PM
Sounds like the Padres are willing to trade Peavy.

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2008/oct/10/padres-s11padres213243/?padres

NLaloosh
10-13-2008, 03:43 PM
would you want the Sox to sign him to a 5 year $ 78 mil. contract? That's what he has now.

2009 $ 8 mil.
2010 $ 15 mil.
2011 $ 16 mil.
2012 $ 17 mil.
2013 $ 22 mil.

This is for a guy that pitches in a huge ballpark, is often injured and pitches much worse on the road.

This is what the Sox would have to pay him IF they could get him for nothing. I would pass even if I didn't have to give up anything but pay his contract.

I would consider Peavy being available nothing the Sox will pursue.

btrain929
10-13-2008, 03:50 PM
would you want the Sox to sign him to a 5 year $ 78 mil. contract? That's what he has now.

2009 $ 8 mil.
2010 $ 15 mil.
2011 $ 16 mil.
2012 $ 17 mil.
2013 $ 22 mil.

This is for a guy that pitches in a huge ballpark, is often injured and pitches much worse on the road.

This is what the Sox would have to pay him IF they could get him for nothing. I would pass even if I didn't have to give up anything but pay his contract.

I would consider Peavy being available nothing the Sox will pursue.

Glad you're not running the White Sox....

JermaineDye05
10-13-2008, 04:14 PM
Glad you're not running the White Sox....

Ditto

A 2 time allstar.

A cy young award winner, won the triple crown for pitchers last year and is 27. You do that in a heartbeat, and immediately after that the Padres GM is burned at the stake.

jabrch
10-13-2008, 04:18 PM
All three of the prospects I named had very high ceilings when they were traded. My point is that good, young corner outfield prospects are easier to replace in your system than good, young lefthanded pitching. Whether or not Reed, Sweeney or Young ever pan out is ancillary in the conversation.

That's true - but it had been a long time since we resited Reed and Young in particular, and I just wanted to take a look at the continued HOF careers that the two are having.

pythons007
10-14-2008, 08:59 AM
Glad you're not running the White Sox....
I'm glad you're not running the White Sox.....
Ditto

A 2 time allstar.

A cy young award winner, won the triple crown for pitchers last year and is 27. You do that in a heartbeat, and immediately after that the Padres GM is burned at the stake.

I posted on this about a week ago. Peavy outside PETCO is ugly.

He would be going from the NL to the AL. A lot more offense!
Would be coming from a pitchers park to a hitters park.
His splits stats in the NL are alarming! Its the NL, not to mention the NL West! That division is Little League! What do you think they would be like in the AL? Let alone in a launching pad at U.S. Cellular.
I would expect the Padres to want a kings ransom plus the DNA of Ted Williams for cloning.

Don't touch this with a 10 foot caddle prod! Someone do some research on Peavy before posting more stupidity!

hellview
10-14-2008, 10:09 AM
would you want the Sox to sign him to a 5 year $ 78 mil. contract? That's what he has now.

2009 $ 8 mil.
2010 $ 15 mil.
2011 $ 16 mil.
2012 $ 17 mil.
2013 $ 22 mil.

This is for a guy that pitches in a huge ballpark, is often injured and pitches much worse on the road.

This is what the Sox would have to pay him IF they could get him for nothing. I would pass even if I didn't have to give up anything but pay his contract.

I would consider Peavy being available nothing the Sox will pursue.

That is a a steal of a contract in a world where Carlos Silva and Kyle Lohse get 40+ million.

I don't see Jake waiving his NTC cause to come to Chicago so it's a mo-point.

jabrch
10-14-2008, 10:56 AM
I posted on this about a week ago. Peavy outside PETCO is ugly.
He would be going from the NL to the AL. A lot more offense!
Would be coming from a pitchers park to a hitters park.
His splits stats in the NL are alarming! Its the NL, not to mention the NL West! That division is Little League! What do you think they would be like in the AL? Let alone in a launching pad at U.S. Cellular.
Those splits this year are not the same each year. In fact, last year Peavy was just as good away as he was at home. (2.57 ERA away vs 2.51 ERA at home)

JermaineDye05
10-14-2008, 11:22 AM
I'm glad you're not running the White Sox.....


I posted on this about a week ago. Peavy outside PETCO is ugly.

He would be going from the NL to the AL. A lot more offense!
Would be coming from a pitchers park to a hitters park.
His splits stats in the NL are alarming! Its the NL, not to mention the NL West! That division is Little League! What do you think they would be like in the AL? Let alone in a launching pad at U.S. Cellular.

I would expect the Padres to want a kings ransom plus the DNA of Ted Williams for cloning.

Don't touch this with a 10 foot caddle prod! Someone do some research on Peavy before posting more stupidity!

How was what we said stupid? The poster before us said he wouldn't take Peavy if he only had to pay his contract. You're telling me you wouldn't take an ace pitcher if all you had to do was pay his contract?

As jabrch said before me, the contracts for pitchers today are ridiculous. You'd be getting Peavy as a major bargain. To not make that deal would be stupid.

Sox4ever77
10-14-2008, 01:31 PM
I'm glad you're not running the White Sox.....




I posted on this about a week ago. Peavy outside PETCO is ugly.
He would be going from the NL to the AL. A lot more offense!
Would be coming from a pitchers park to a hitters park.
His splits stats in the NL are alarming! Its the NL, not to mention the NL West! That division is Little League! What do you think they would be like in the AL? Let alone in a launching pad at U.S. Cellular.
I would expect the Padres to want a kings ransom plus the DNA of Ted Williams for cloning.

Don't touch this with a 10 foot caddle prod! Someone do some research on Peavy before posting more stupidity!

All this about going from the AL to NL is pointless.

When Santana got traded to the Mets, everybody gave them the NL East. While he had a great season, his numbers were about the same.

Josh Beckett did pretty well moving from the NL to the AL.

So it's not a sure thing a NL pitcher moving to the AL will do worse.

The Padres are looking to trade Peavy and now Khalil Greene, who makes about $7 mill.

Foulke You
10-14-2008, 04:35 PM
So it's not a sure thing a NL pitcher moving to the AL will do worse.
No, but the risk is much higher than vice versa. The AL is the superior league right now, especially in terms of offense. All one needs to do is look at the level of domination that Sabathia had over his NL competition. CC was having an average season and then gets traded to the NL and BOOM, he is smoking hot and mowing NL hitters down with an E.R.A. around 1.50. This is also the same league where the immortal AL washout Kyle Lohse had one great season and parlayed it into a 4 year contract. We are going to see this league superiority play out again as the Red Sox or Rays will dispose of the Phillies in the 2008 World Series. Does all of this mean that Peavy would be a definite washout in the AL? No, but I would certainly give pause and make sure as an organization, you are confident that Peavy's stuff can translate to success against loaded AL lineups in a HR friendly ballpark.

Sox4ever77
10-14-2008, 04:57 PM
No, but the risk is much higher than vice versa. The AL is the superior league right now, especially in terms of offense. All one needs to do is look at the level of domination that Sabathia had over his NL competition. CC was having an average season and then gets traded to the NL and BOOM, he is smoking hot and mowing NL hitters down with an E.R.A. around 1.50. This is also the same league where the immortal AL washout Kyle Lohse had one great season and parlayed it into a 4 year contract. We are going to see this league superiority play out again as the Red Sox or Rays will dispose of the Phillies in the 2008 World Series. Does all of this mean that Peavy would be a definite washout in the AL? No, but I would certainly give pause and make sure as an organization, you are confident that Peavy's stuff can translate to success against loaded AL lineups in a HR friendly ballpark.


Then I would point out, what about Santana? He didn't dominate, his numbers were about the same as when he was with the Twins.

pythons007
10-14-2008, 05:02 PM
Those splits this year are not the same each year. In fact, last year Peavy was just as good away as he was at home. (2.57 ERA away vs 2.51 ERA at home)

I took his career splits. Take a look at the difference, its unreal. Homers double, ERA is more than a full run higher, his whip is awful. Now take into account that HE PITCHES IN A PITCHERS PARK, AND IS IN THE NL.

How was what we said stupid? The poster before us said he wouldn't take Peavy if he only had to pay his contract. You're telling me you wouldn't take an ace pitcher if all you had to do was pay his contract?

As jabrch said before me, the contracts for pitchers today are ridiculous. You'd be getting Peavy as a major bargain. To not make that deal would be stupid.

Ok, I was wrong here. Yes I would take him just for his contract but I would not trade for him at all.

No, but the risk is much higher than vice versa. The AL is the superior league right now, especially in terms of offense. All one needs to do is look at the level of domination that Sabathia had over his NL competition. CC was having an average season and then gets traded to the NL and BOOM, he is smoking hot and mowing NL hitters down with an E.R.A. around 1.50. This is also the same league where the immortal AL washout Kyle Lohse had one great season and parlayed it into a 4 year contract. We are going to see this league superiority play out again as the Red Sox or Rays will dispose of the Phillies in the 2008 World Series. Does all of this mean that Peavy would be a definite washout in the AL? No, but I would certainly give pause and make sure as an organization, you are confident that Peavy's stuff can translate to success against loaded AL lineups in a HR friendly ballpark.

Some other examples of this situation.
Chris Young from TEX to SD. It is a small sample size but his ERA decreases tremendously, his WHIP goes down, Ks are up.

Chris Carpenter from TOR to STL. At most was a 4th or 5th starter with Toronto with the numbers he posted while with them. Never had an ERA under 4 with and never had more than 12 wins. His first and second year at STL posts he best numbers of his career!!!!

Take Peavy out of PETCO and you may have yourself another Javier Vazquez. I'm just saying, but if you look at his numbers away its sick. (Now I don't want a people saying I'm comparing Peavy to Javy. But if you put him in U.S. Cellular he might get lit up.)
AWAY
96 GS 45 W 35 L 3 CG 2 SHO 583 IP 546 H 268 R 246 ER 81 HR 212 BB 539 K 3.80 ERA 1.30 WHIP .246 BAA
HOME
103 GS 41 W 27 L 3 CG 1 SHO 678 IP 543 H 216 R 209 ER 47 HR 195 BB 717 K 2.77 ERA 1.09 WHIP .219 BAA

pythons007
10-14-2008, 05:03 PM
Then I would point out, what about Santana? He didn't dominate, his numbers were about the same as when he was with the Twins.

Yeah, the same. Those numbers are solid! Let him get used to the hitters and I bet they get better!

Foulke You
10-14-2008, 05:29 PM
Then I would point out, what about Santana? He didn't dominate, his numbers were about the same as when he was with the Twins.
Santana had no run support and an immensely terrible bullpen that contributed to his lackluster record. If he had more run support and an average bullpen this year, he would be looking at about 20 wins and a probable Cy Young. Did his numbers get immensely better? No, but they didn't get worse. Also keep in mind that the Mets play the Phillies and Marlins 17 or 18 times a year and those are two of the only teams in the NL that have what I consider to be an AL caliber lineup. Those two teams aren't the little sisters of the NL West poor like Peavy faces regularly.

Again, I'm not 100% against bringing Peavy here, but I can definitely understand where Python is coming from. Peavy is far from a slam dunk and the amount of money he is making and the league/division he plays in would concern me if we were to give up a lot to get him.

BadBobbyJenks
10-14-2008, 05:35 PM
Then I would point out, what about Santana? He didn't dominate, his numbers were about the same as when he was with the Twins.

Well he did drop his era by almost a run from last year, a career best by the way...

Foulke You
10-14-2008, 05:37 PM
Some other examples of this situation.
Chris Young from TEX to SD. It is a small sample size but his ERA decreases tremendously, his WHIP goes down, Ks are up.

Chris Carpenter from TOR to STL. At most was a 4th or 5th starter with Toronto with the numbers he posted while with them. Never had an ERA under 4 with and never had more than 12 wins. His first and second year at STL posts he best numbers of his career!!!!

I'd also add Ted Lilly to this list. A #4 type guy in the AL who ate innings and would get you 10-12 wins a year becomes a 15W-17W game winner and is a #2 starter in the NL.

Greg Maddux also wouldn't have a job as a starter anywhere in the AL with the kind of crap he has been featuring the last couple years.

Also have a look at Randy Johnson's numbers when he tried to go back to the AL with the Yankees a couple years ago. He is back in the NL now and suddenly is serviceable again.

For every 1 success of an NL guy dominating and doing the same in the AL (like Josh Beckett) there are 3 Ted Lillys, Chris Carpenters, and Kyle Lohses. This is why you need to take a hard look at Peavy's ability before trading the farm and taking on a huge contract to get him.

doublem23
10-14-2008, 06:09 PM
Well he did drop his era by almost a run from last year, a career best by the way...

It's all about wins and losses, man... Real pitchers know how to win games even when their offense doesn't score any runs or their bullpen blows the lead after they got pulled.

Sox4ever77
10-14-2008, 07:18 PM
I'd also add Ted Lilly to this list. A #4 type guy in the AL who ate innings and would get you 10-12 wins a year becomes a 15W-17W game winner and is a #2 starter in the NL.

Greg Maddux also wouldn't have a job as a starter anywhere in the AL with the kind of crap he has been featuring the last couple years.

Also have a look at Randy Johnson's numbers when he tried to go back to the AL with the Yankees a couple years ago. He is back in the NL now and suddenly is serviceable again.

For every 1 success of an NL guy dominating and doing the same in the AL (like Josh Beckett) there are 3 Ted Lillys, Chris Carpenters, and Kyle Lohses. This is why you need to take a hard look at Peavy's ability before trading the farm and taking on a huge contract to get him.

Are you seriously comparing Beckett, an ace, to at best, three starters who would be #3 on many staffs?

Sox4ever77
10-14-2008, 07:20 PM
It's all about wins and losses, man... Real pitchers know how to win games even when their offense doesn't score any runs or their bullpen blows the lead after they got pulled.

You can put it in teal but Santana stepped up for the Mets and went a full nine innings on Sat, giving up no runs. I think the Mets only scored 2 runs for him. Unlike MB, who choked vs the Twins.

Sox4ever77
10-14-2008, 07:24 PM
Well he did drop his era by almost a run from last year, a career best by the way...

But his WHIP went up, 1.1148.

I've never said the Sox should trade for Peavy. All I'm saying is that just because a pitcher does well in the NL, doesn't mean he'll struggle in the AL.

Craig Grebeck
10-14-2008, 07:59 PM
2004:
Home .631 OPSA, 2.21 ERA
Road .698 OPSA, 2.33 ERA

2005:
Home .633 OPSA, 2.81 ERA
Road .636 OPSA, 2.98 ERA

2006:
Home .672 OPSA, 3.75 ERA
Road .772 OPSA, 4.57 ERA

2007:
Home .581 OPSA, 2.51 ERA
Road .588 OPSA, 2.57 ERA

Brian26
10-14-2008, 08:23 PM
I'm glad you're not running the White Sox.....



I posted on this about a week ago. Peavy outside PETCO is ugly.
He would be going from the NL to the AL. A lot more offense!
With the exception being the Sox 7-8-9 hitters down the stretch. :redneck

guillensdisciple
10-14-2008, 09:37 PM
2004:
Home .631 OPSA, 2.21 ERA
Road .698 OPSA, 2.33 ERA

2005:
Home .633 OPSA, 2.81 ERA
Road .636 OPSA, 2.98 ERA

2006:
Home .672 OPSA, 3.75 ERA
Road .772 OPSA, 4.57 ERA

2007:
Home .581 OPSA, 2.51 ERA
Road .588 OPSA, 2.57 ERA


Well played, hopefully this proves why Peave will look good in any staff.

chaerulez
10-15-2008, 10:21 AM
It's all about wins and losses, man... Real pitchers know how to win games even when their offense doesn't score any runs or their bullpen blows the lead after they got pulled.

Tell that to Hawk, I think it was the year after Russ Ortiz's 20 win season when Ortiz was on the trading block and he pointed to Ortiz's W-L record as a reason for him being good. Well, the Diamondbacks found out the hard way, he wasn't.

Foulke You
10-15-2008, 05:30 PM
Are you seriously comparing Beckett, an ace, to at best, three starters who would be #3 on many staffs?
I'm not sure I understand your question. I used Josh Beckett as an example of a pitcher who had a lot of success in both leagues. I used Carpenter, Lilly, and Lohse as examples of pitchers with very limited success in the AL and then suddenly became better by facing NL competition. I'm not comparing them directly to each other in terms of ability just using them as examples to prove my point about the difference between pitching in the AL vs. the NL.

For the record, Carpenter was considered to be the Cardinals "ace" when he was healthy. Lilly was the Cubs #2 starter in 2007 and #3 in 2008 prior to the Harden trade. Kyle Lohse was the defacto "ace" of the Cardinals staff in 2008 as well despite never being able to hold on to the #5 starter job in Minnesota. Such is life in the NL. I don't disagree with you that those guys are #3 or #4 type starters at best, but in the NL, they get ranked higher due to the talent disparity between the two leagues.

Optipessimism
10-15-2008, 09:00 PM
Peavy wouldn't be worth it. There's no way he comes here without the centerpiece of the deal being Floyd or Danks with all our best tradeable prospects being included. If you factor in the upgrade of Peavy over Floyd or Danks, plus add in the salary difference which means other players have to go or at least can't be brought in through FA, and then consider how much organizational depth you lose, plus the fact that now you have nothing to trade should a move become necessary, a trade makes zero sense for the Sox.

The Yankees would be a good fit because they have prospects to deal and can afford to take on the contract no problem, and that still leaves them with room to work. The Yanks could throw Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera, and a prospect or two at the Padres, pick up Peavy, still sign CC Sabathia, and alongside Chamberlain, Mussina (if he comes back) and Wang their team doesn't miss a beat. Unfortunately the Sox don't have those luxuries.

Sox4ever77
10-17-2008, 02:10 AM
I'm not sure I understand your question. I used Josh Beckett as an example of a pitcher who had a lot of success in both leagues. I used Carpenter, Lilly, and Lohse as examples of pitchers with very limited success in the AL and then suddenly became better by facing NL competition. I'm not comparing them directly to each other in terms of ability just using them as examples to prove my point about the difference between pitching in the AL vs. the NL.

For the record, Carpenter was considered to be the Cardinals "ace" when he was healthy. Lilly was the Cubs #2 starter in 2007 and #3 in 2008 prior to the Harden trade. Kyle Lohse was the defacto "ace" of the Cardinals staff in 2008 as well despite never being able to hold on to the #5 starter job in Minnesota. Such is life in the NL. I don't disagree with you that those guys are #3 or #4 type starters at best, but in the NL, they get ranked higher due to the talent disparity between the two leagues.


You know, I misread your response. Or is that misremembered?