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LITTLE NELL
10-07-2008, 02:14 PM
With Alexei probably moving to SS next year, what are the chances of Getz being our second baseman next year. It would be great to have someone from the system become at least a good everyday player. Say if we sign Figgins and Hudson to long term contracts, where would that leave our #1 pick this year, Beckham. He should be ready by 2010.

kittle42
10-07-2008, 02:36 PM
Getz will probably bne given a chance to make the bench and possibly a starting role in ST, but which one will depend on trying to acquire proven talent before March. Right now, we don't have any surefire rookie-types who can be inked into a 25-man roster except probably Richard.

Lip Man 1
10-07-2008, 05:18 PM
Slim.

The Sox appear to want a veteran presence in the middle of the infield from what I've been told.

Lip

MCHSoxFan
10-07-2008, 05:54 PM
Slim.

The Sox appear to watch a veteran presence in the middle of the infield from what I've been told.

Lip

Most likely yes. However, if he if not, I say he plays 2B and leads-off.

kevingrt
10-07-2008, 06:00 PM
Most likely yes. However, if he if not, I say he plays 2B and leads-off.

He hasn't even played a full month in the majors and you want him starting 2B and a lead off man? Hell, he has never even been a regular starter.

I would like to see him and Uribe both on this club next year as utility infielders.

Mohoney
10-07-2008, 06:07 PM
I would like to see him and Uribe both on this club next year as utility infielders.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I think that there are a few bad teams out there that might give Uribe a starting job, and that he would rather do that than sit on the bench here.

JUribe1989
10-07-2008, 06:59 PM
I remember seeing Reinsdorf in an interview saying he loved the way Getz plays and sees him in the White Sox future.

I say if we don't acquire a veteran IF, he is out starting 2B for sure.

thomas35forever
10-07-2008, 07:04 PM
I remember seeing Reinsdorf in an interview saying he loved the way Getz plays and sees him in the White Sox future.

I say if we don't acquire a veteran IF, he is out starting 2B for sure.
Yup. If we don't get Orlando Hudson or a similar player, expect Getz to get the nod next year. He'll of course have to prove he's worthy of the position in Spring Training, but regardless, he should be on the 25-man roster in '09.

kittle42
10-07-2008, 07:15 PM
Yup. If we don't get Orlando Hudson or a similar player, expect Getz to get the nod next year. He'll of course have to prove he's worthy of the position in Spring Training, but regardless, he should be on the 25-man roster in '09.

Thank you for remembering to add the qualifier many here seem to forget when just inking in starters year after year!

Lukin13
10-07-2008, 08:18 PM
I have an odd feeling that between Getz, Alexei, Fields, the likelyhood of Juan returning, and the possible emergence of Beckham...

KW might just sit on his hands when it comes to the infield for '09.

There isn't a ton of options available in the free agent market and between these five guys (and you could throw a name like Durham or another real under the radar signing into the mix), KW might feel he can inexpensively patch together an infield.

35th and Shields
10-07-2008, 08:33 PM
I have an odd feeling that between Getz, Alexei, Fields, the likelyhood of Juan returning, and the possible emergence of Beckham...

KW might just sit on his hands when it comes to the infield for '09.

There isn't a ton of options available in the free agent market and between these five guys (and you could throw a name like Durham or another real under the radar signing into the mix), KW might feel he can inexpensively patch together an infield.

I don't see any possible scenario where KW doesn't acquire a proven infielder i.e. hudson or ellis. He knows we have a pretty solid club and a legitimate shot to win the division again. I doubt he'll count on both fields and getz to come through like alexei and TCQ did this year.

btrain929
10-07-2008, 08:36 PM
I have an odd feeling that between Getz, Alexei, Fields, the likelyhood of Juan returning, and the possible emergence of Beckham...

KW might just sit on his hands when it comes to the infield for '09.

There isn't a ton of options available in the free agent market and between these five guys (and you could throw a name like Durham or another real under the radar signing into the mix), KW might feel he can inexpensively patch together an infield.

Only problem with that theory is, if we go with those guys for our infield, we still have no leadoff hitter. Which means we'd HAVE to find a CF who can leadoff. Plus, if 1 or 2 of those options don't work out, we wouldn't have a backup plan ala BA in '06.

With us getting into the playoffs, and our window closing with our veterans, I doubt we go with Getz, Fields, and/or Uribe playing a huge part of '09. And if we do, it'll be plan G after plan A-F of trades/FA's failed.

BleacherBandit
10-07-2008, 09:16 PM
Nick Punto > Chris Getz...


Get Punto.

Huisj
10-07-2008, 09:23 PM
I think I heard something from Steve Stone on the radio (it was really staticky and fading in and out) that said they were thinking about Beckham being better suited for 3B in the future, and that that move might happen by next spring. He also said that with Crede's back issues, even though it seems unlikely to many, it's not out of the question that Crede would sign a one-year incentive laden deal to re-establish himself, and that would give Beckham a year of development at third in the minors, and depending on what happened with him, if Crede got hurt or traded at the deadline, Beckham could be up sooner than later.

Craig Grebeck
10-07-2008, 09:30 PM
Nick Punto > Chris Getz...


Get Punto.
Nope. Don't see it.

Lip Man 1
10-07-2008, 09:41 PM
Huisj:

Well that's possible of course but first everyone has to find out if Crede can even play in 2009, (and I'm sure his agent will do everything he can to promote a good medical report) then would anyone take a chance?

A few things to keep in mind. From what I was told Kenny was furious over some things Joe's agent did this season (to the point where he was supposedly asking the media for help in getting evidence to press tampering charges). If that's true, the door might be closed on Crede under any circumstances.

Then getting Joe back (or Fields) does little to shore up what appears to be the Sox main off season need (and Kenny has acknowledged this...) speed.

I won't say never but I think Joe's chances at best are 10% returning to the Sox.

Lip

Ziggy S
10-08-2008, 03:35 AM
Lip

Crede's as good as gone. It's more like 0% chance of him returning.

Ziggy

palehozenychicty
10-08-2008, 08:44 AM
I think I heard something from Steve Stone on the radio (it was really staticky and fading in and out) that said they were thinking about Beckham being better suited for 3B in the future, and that that move might happen by next spring. He also said that with Crede's back issues, even though it seems unlikely to many, it's not out of the question that Crede would sign a one-year incentive laden deal to re-establish himself, and that would give Beckham a year of development at third in the minors, and depending on what happened with him, if Crede got hurt or traded at the deadline, Beckham could be up sooner than later.


I hope that they don't do that, and I hope they don't rush Beckham. If he's hitting .450 in Double-A, then cool. Otherwise, let him develop, and he should be ready by late '10 or 2011.

duke of dorwood
10-08-2008, 08:48 AM
Getz reminds me of Scott Fletcher, who did nothing but help us win games

palehozenychicty
10-08-2008, 08:54 AM
Getz reminds me of Scott Fletcher, who did nothing but help us win games


He did do that. I think Getz has that capability too. We just need to see it in the spring.

It's like what Buddy Ryan said about Cris Carter, "All he does is catch touchdowns!"

nccwsfan
10-08-2008, 08:55 AM
Yup. If we don't get Orlando Hudson or a similar player, expect Getz to get the nod next year. He'll of course have to prove he's worthy of the position in Spring Training, but regardless, he should be on the 25-man roster in '09.

Thank you for remembering to add the qualifier many here seem to forget when just inking in starters year after year!

12 months ago a lot of us had Danny Richar penciled in as the second baseman for the 08' team. Hopefully Getz will do just that and earn his spot on the team.

voodoochile
10-08-2008, 09:37 AM
Getz will probably bne given a chance to make the bench and possibly a starting role in ST, but which one will depend on trying to acquire proven talent before March. Right now, we don't have any surefire rookie-types who can be inked into a 25-man roster except probably Richard.

Yeah, I don't see Gets or Fields being traded unless they bring back a guy who plays their expected position.

voodoochile
10-08-2008, 09:39 AM
I have an odd feeling that between Getz, Alexei, Fields, the likelyhood of Juan returning, and the possible emergence of Beckham...

KW might just sit on his hands when it comes to the infield for '09.

There isn't a ton of options available in the free agent market and between these five guys (and you could throw a name like Durham or another real under the radar signing into the mix), KW might feel he can inexpensively patch together an infield.

I think they need to fill one of the slots with a veteran much more urgently than they need to find a veteran CF.

russ99
10-08-2008, 10:18 AM
I think Fields has a better chance to be a stopgap starting infielder due to player availability next season than Getz.

Kenny will be getting us another infielder who's a major-league hitter. I don't think a SS is out of the question either, since Alexei can play either second or short, and there may be better options out there to acquire a SS than a 2B. However, a leadoff hitting CF is still the #1 priority if you ask me.

I'd count on Uribe leaving. Someone will promise him a starting job and he can't be too happy about the his playing time or the way he was treated the last 2 seasons. He came up big for us this year and in 05, but won't take a paycut to ride the pine.

Crede will not be with the 2009 Sox. End of story. Some bonehead GM will likely pay Boras a high salary for him. Good luck with that Joe...

kittle42
10-08-2008, 10:23 AM
I think Fields has a better chance to be a stopgap starting infielder due to player availability next season than Getz.

Of course he will...he fits right into the organization's slow, mashing, no-defense philosophy!

voodoochile
10-08-2008, 10:43 AM
Of course he will...he fits right into the organization's slow, mashing, no-defense philosophy!


According to Joey Cora who worked with Fields last spring, Fields had made good strides defensively during ST and was ready to be the starting 3B on opening day, but then he got hurt and after a long time sitting out, he regressed again. I expect them to do something similar this year and hope he stays healthy. It's not like he's Crede where the problem is chronic and debilitating so he should be fine. Given his past history of hitting at least somewhat on this level and the ability he has shown to steal bases adequately he has the most potential and experience of the two young choices.

Just because Fields hits HR and tends to K a fair amount, don't confuse him as a slow masher. He's got some solid speed.

Nellie_Fox
10-08-2008, 11:51 AM
Fields ... tends to K a fair amount ...I'd say it's more of an unfair amount.

khan
10-08-2008, 12:25 PM
According to Joey Cora who worked with Fields last spring, Fields had made good strides defensively during ST and was ready to be the starting 3B on opening day, but then he got hurt and after a long time sitting out, he regressed again. I expect them to do something similar this year and hope he stays healthy.

If this is the case, then it will be a major mistake. Fields can't catch a COLD. Fields couldn't TAKE the 3rd baseman's position, even when it was HANDED TO HIM on a silver platter in ST. Fields couldn't beat out the Immortal Juan Uribe during the season. His failure to take advantage of the opportunities afforded to him speaks poorly about his internal drive and desire to get better.


Given his past history of hitting at least somewhat on this level and the ability he has shown to steal bases adequately he has the most potential and experience of the two young choices.

Just because Fields hits HR and tends to K a fair amount, don't confuse him as a slow masher. He's got some solid speed.
Just because he hit some HRs in garbage time in 2007, don't confuse him with a Major League hitter. He's a K waiting to happen, he's ALWAYS been a K waiting to happen. His average and OBP have been mediocre at best in the minors, as well as in the Bigs. He embodies everything that is wrong with this team's offense and offensive philosophy. This team clearly does NOT need another strikeout-or-HR-ONLY hitter.

Here's hoping Kenny can get a stupid GM to take this guy off our hands. Offensively, he's Dan Pasqua, at best. Defensively, he's Edward Sissorhands.

khan
10-08-2008, 12:27 PM
12 months ago a lot of us had Danny Richar penciled in as the second baseman for the 08' team. Hopefully Getz will do just that and earn his spot on the team.

I never thought that. Richar couldn't hit his weight in the bigs, the minors, or in winter ball.

IF Getz and/or Bourgeois(sp?) can hit in winter ball, I might feel comfortable with either in the 25 man roster. If not, then Kenny would be best served to find a veteran somewhere.

SteveFakeBlood
10-08-2008, 12:47 PM
I have an odd feeling that between Getz, Alexei, Fields, the likelyhood of Juan returning, and the possible emergence of Beckham...

KW might just sit on his hands when it comes to the infield for '09.

There isn't a ton of options available in the free agent market and between these five guys (and you could throw a name like Durham or another real under the radar signing into the mix), KW might feel he can inexpensively patch together an infield.

I hadn't actually thought about Durham at all, he might actually be a good signing. Probably will come cheap still puts up a high OBP and decent defense, lost too many steps to hit lead off, but still not a lumbering oaf out there, either. Could be a great option for a #2 hitter for a season or two.

~Steve

voodoochile
10-08-2008, 01:50 PM
If this is the case, then it will be a major mistake. Fields can't catch a COLD. Fields couldn't TAKE the 3rd baseman's position, even when it was HANDED TO HIM on a silver platter in ST. Fields couldn't beat out the Immortal Juan Uribe during the season. His failure to take advantage of the opportunities afforded to him speaks poorly about his internal drive and desire to get better.

Last year may have just been one of those perfect storms for Fields where everything goes wrong. My point is that of the three players Uribe Getz and Fields, Fields is the one guy who has shown the potential to hit at a high level in the majors. Getz may have that I don't know he hasn't had much of a chance so far.

Oh and I trust Cora's assessment of Fields' development more than I trust yours.

Just because he hit some HRs in garbage time in 2007, don't confuse him with a Major League hitter. He's a K waiting to happen, he's ALWAYS been a K waiting to happen. His average and OBP have been mediocre at best in the minors, as well as in the Bigs. He embodies everything that is wrong with this team's offense and offensive philosophy. This team clearly does NOT need another strikeout-or-HR-ONLY hitter.

Here's hoping Kenny can get a stupid GM to take this guy off our hands. Offensively, he's Dan Pasqua, at best. Defensively, he's Edward Sissorhands.

Garbage time? Was he or was he not hitting against major league pitchers the second half of 2007? You saying the Sox cannot afford his potential .450-500 SLG% batting say 7th or 8th?

The Sox need to acquire at least one of the two infield slots via trade or spend money on one and go in house on the other. Heck, it may be that Getz and Fields both get the starting nod with Uribe as the back up plan.

My first choice would be:

Sign/trade for a second baseman.

Sign Uribe as the backup.

Use Getz as the other backup IF

See if Fields can handle 3B.

If not hand the job to Uribe and see if you can get something for Fields.

I won't be surprised if Fields gets traded though, but he has to bring a starting IF in return.

Flight #24
10-08-2008, 02:04 PM
IMO the key questionm will be at which of the 3 open slots (CF, 2B, 3B) they can find a leadoff guy with some speed. That and the cost to get that player will determine the other 2 slots. They have in-house options for all 3 in Anderson/Owens, Getz, and Fields/Crede/Uribe. (Although I'd agree that Crede is an extreme longshot to return. But if the market isn't there, I don't think Kenny would reject Joe on a 1-yr deal if the price is right.)

kittle42
10-08-2008, 02:17 PM
Garbage time? Was he or was he not hitting against major league pitchers the second half of 2007? You saying the Sox cannot afford his potential .450-500 SLG% batting say 7th or 8th

khan=shoota!

oeo
10-08-2008, 02:26 PM
(Although I'd agree that Crede is an extreme longshot to return. But if the market isn't there, I don't think Kenny would reject Joe on a 1-yr deal if the price is right.)

The price will never be right because Crede can't stay on the field. Besides, if you bring Crede back, what do you do with Josh Fields? Let him rot in AAA again? This is getting ridiculous, the guy already lost a year of development because of Crede.

This screams Scott Podsednik to me. Yeah, it would have been nice to have a healthy Scott Podsednik (or in this case, Joe Crede), but it never happened (and probably never will with Crede, either).

voodoochile
10-08-2008, 02:47 PM
The price will never be right because Crede can't stay on the field. Besides, if you bring Crede back, what do you do with Josh Fields? Let him rot in AAA again? This is getting ridiculous, the guy already lost a year of development because of Crede.

This screams Scott Podsednik to me. Yeah, it would have been nice to have a healthy Scott Podsednik (or in this case, Joe Crede), but it never happened (and probably never will with Crede, either).

What did Joe make last year, $8.5M. The Sox would have to offer him 80% of that or whatever the number was simply to sit down at the arbitration table with him. If the Sox offer arb, I imagine Boras and Crede jump all over it unless there has been some miracle since the last time Joe stepped on a baseball diamond.

No way the Sox offer arb or a long term contract (yeah, right :rolleyes: ) without seeing Joe's medical records and how things have progressed since they last evaluated him. I imagine turning those records over to any owner before they've signed a contract isn't high on Borass' priority list

khan
10-08-2008, 03:43 PM
Garbage time? Was he or was he not hitting against major league pitchers the second half of 2007?
Yeah, during the Sox's playoff push in 2007, right? I maintain that his tenure in 2007 was during garbage time. The team was terrible, and was going NO WHERE with him in it.

You saying the Sox cannot afford his potential .450-500 SLG% batting say 7th or 8th?
I'm saying the SOX can't afford to have his 200 ks and his craptacular defense in the team. The team had ENOUGH problems with run downs and with errors. Again, there is no need for a guy who couldn't beat out The Immortal Juan Uribe for a spot that was handed to him on a silver platter. There is no need for a guy who couldn't break a .280 batting average IN CHARLOTTE.

Sign/trade for a second baseman.
Sign Uribe as the backup.
Use Getz as the other backup IF
Agreed, though if Getz/Bourgeois hit like Richar did in winter ball, then neither belong on the big club.

See if Fields can handle 3B.
We've already seen this movie, and we know how it ends:

TONS and TONS of errors, TONS and TONS of strikeouts, a ~.220 batting average, and a few HR. We've already got that in this team.

I won't be surprised if Fields gets traded though, but he has to bring a starting IF in return.
I'd be happy with a legit Catcher prospect. None of the younger catchers in the 40 man roster have anything to get amped up about, IMO.

Risk
10-08-2008, 04:07 PM
Again, there is no need for a guy who couldn't beat out The Immortal Juan Uribe for a spot that was handed to him on a silver platter. There is no need for a guy who couldn't break a .280 batting average IN CHARLOTTE.



For the record, "the Immortal" Juan Uribe didn't beat out Fields. Fields got injured during spring training. The Sox went into spring training with the intention of either having Crede or Fields be the starting third baseman. Uribe wasn't even in the picture at the time since his ass was relegated back to the bench b/c of the acquisition of Cabrera.

And about "barely" being able to hit at AAA, he had two or three trips to the DL this season and had problems with his legs. But don't let injuries or facts for that matter get in the way of a good rant.:rolleyes:

Risk

khan
10-08-2008, 04:22 PM
The Sox went into spring training with the intention of either having Crede or Fields be the starting third baseman.
Thank you for agreeing with me: Fields couldn't take the job, which was HANDED to him on a silver platter. The SOX would have loved to have been able to trade Crede away in Spring Training, but Fields did exactly jack and **** about taking the job over.

When Crede was initially injured/DL'ed, the SOX TRIED to give Fields the job [again], but he simply wasn't good enough to take it.


And about "barely" being able to hit at AAA, he had two or three trips to the DL this season and had problems with his legs.
Sure. So what's his excuse for the rest of his career?


But don't let injuries or facts for that matter get in the way of a good rant.:rolleyes:
The fact is, he's never hit for average. He's another k-or-HR-ONLY hitter. His OBA/BA in the minors have sucked except for 1 lucky/career year. His OBA/BA in the bigs is middling. And he strikes out a TON. [I won't mention Fields' inabilty to field. It's just too easy to point out.]

voodoochile
10-08-2008, 04:37 PM
Thank you for agreeing with me: Fields couldn't take the job, which was HANDED to him on a silver platter. The SOX would have loved to have been able to trade Crede away in Spring Training, but Fields did exactly jack and **** about taking the job over.

When Crede was initially injured/DL'ed, the SOX TRIED to give Fields the job [again], but he simply wasn't good enough to take it.



Sure. So what's his excuse for the rest of his career?



The fact is, he's never hit for average. He's another k-or-HR-ONLY hitter. His OBA/BA in the minors have sucked except for 1 lucky/career year. His OBA/BA in the bigs is middling. And he strikes out a TON. [I won't mention Fields' in abilty to field. It's just too easy to point out.]

Well at least Fields of Getz will be starting next year, IMO if not both. There just isn't money to be spent to fill both those positions and deal with the other issues that confront the club (5th starter, one IF, one OF slot).

If the Sox don't sign a CF I expect them to give Owens a try there with Swish and BA as the immediate backups. I don't expect Wise to see much PT except as a 4th OF.

That is of course depending on trades. Only way the Sox trade for a CF is if they include Swish, IMO, something I don't think KW is going to do because he probably likes him as RF/1B in 2010 when Dye's contract is up and PK can move to splitting time at DH/1B.

At least it's going to be an interesting off season trying to figure out how to put the pieces together and I guarantee that no matter what you or I think KW has a plan that we probably aren't even considering yet.

Flight #24
10-08-2008, 04:43 PM
What did Joe make last year, $8.5M. The Sox would have to offer him 80% of that or whatever the number was simply to sit down at the arbitration table with him. If the Sox offer arb, I imagine Boras and Crede jump all over it unless there has been some miracle since the last time Joe stepped on a baseball diamond.

No way the Sox offer arb or a long term contract (yeah, right :rolleyes: ) without seeing Joe's medical records and how things have progressed since they last evaluated him. I imagine turning those records over to any owner before they've signed a contract isn't high on Borass' priority list

Per MLB4U, Crede signed a deal for '08 worth a whopping $5.1M. I'd pay $5M for half a season of Crede, IMO that's a decent risk to take. If he absolutely cannot play at all, you're out the $5M but that's not a killer level (esp if you make it $4M by using the 80% rule). Offering that gets you whatever compensation he'll bring and gives you an option on the 1-yr deal if he accepts in a worst case scenario.

Daver
10-08-2008, 04:58 PM
Well at least Fields of Getz will be starting next year, IMO if not both. There just isn't money to be spent to fill both those positions and deal with the other issues that confront the club (5th starter, one IF, one OF slot).

If the Sox don't sign a CF I expect them to give Owens a try there with Swish and BA as the immediate backups. I don't expect Wise to see much PT except as a 4th OF.


Fielding a team with Owens starting in CF and Fields at 3rd is quitting on the season from day one.

Mohoney
10-08-2008, 05:06 PM
Fielding a team with Owens starting in CF and Fields at 3rd is quitting on the season from day one.

Yep. Those two together in the lineup will make way too many outs without even making contact.

Risk
10-08-2008, 05:12 PM
Thank you for agreeing with me: Fields couldn't take the job, which was HANDED to him on a silver platter. The SOX would have loved to have been able to trade Crede away in Spring Training, but Fields did exactly jack and **** about taking the job over.

When Crede was initially injured/DL'ed, the SOX TRIED to give Fields the job [again], but he simply wasn't good enough to take it.



Sure. So what's his excuse for the rest of his career?



The fact is, he's never hit for average. He's another k-or-HR-ONLY hitter. His OBA/BA in the minors have sucked except for 1 lucky/career year. His OBA/BA in the bigs is middling. And he strikes out a TON. [I won't mention Fields' inabilty to field. It's just too easy to point out.]

No, I'm not agreeing with you. First off, what part of Fields wasn't handed the starting 3B job on a silver platter during spring training is not computing? What evidence, other than deluded snark do you have that the starting 3B job was Fields to lose? Second, even if he was given the 3B job on a silver platter, how do you suppose Fields takes it over when he is injured/out and Crede is healthy?

With regards to the Sox "trying" to give Fields the job, in the thick of the playoff hunt the Sox had no room for error. Fields was cold, and Uribe stepped up and got hot. Ozzie was smart and went with the hot hand, like he should of.

Apparently, you are able to decipher better than professional scouts as to Fields ability, and low and behold, at age 25 and 500+ professional at bats, he is an all or nothing, HR or strikeout guy with no hope of ever improving. Wow, just wow.

With regard to his fielding (or lack thereof) I think I'll trust the opinion of Cora who said his fielding was improving over what I hear on WSI.

Finally, which year at AAA was his career year, 2006 when he hit .305/.379/.894 or 2007 at .283/.394/.892. Again, he must have been very lucky when he was flailing at pitches.

I'm not even a Fields fan and if we can trade him for something better, I'm fine with that, but if people are going to use snarky comments about current players on the roster without any factual basis other than "silver platter" and "he's never hit" and "he never will hit" and think that they know something more than anyone else, I call bull.

Continue anti-Fields rant.

Risk

khan
10-08-2008, 05:19 PM
No, I'm not agreeing with you.
Sure you are:
I'm not even a Fields fan and if we can trade him for something better, I'm fine with that,

I'm not a Fields fan, either. Like you, I'd rather that Kenny Williams trade his ass off the team for someone who can catch the ball and hit for average. See? We're in agreement!


Carry on, then...

Risk
10-08-2008, 05:32 PM
Sure you are:



No. In no part of the previous post (where you claimed I agreed with you) did you say that Fields should be traded. So no, we don't agree.

Reading and comprehension aren't your strong suit. Hopefully your better at evaluating baseball talent.:rolleyes:

Risk

oeo
10-08-2008, 06:09 PM
Thank you for agreeing with me: Fields couldn't take the job, which was HANDED to him on a silver platter. The SOX would have loved to have been able to trade Crede away in Spring Training, but Fields did exactly jack and **** about taking the job over.

When Crede was initially injured/DL'ed, the SOX TRIED to give Fields the job [again], but he simply wasn't good enough to take it.

Before you start typing, check your facts. We couldn't get anything for Crede, that is why he was not dealt. It had nothing to do with Fields, Kenny just didn't want to give Crede away. In retrospect, he probably should have just given him away.

When Crede went to the DL, Fields already had injury problems of his own. He was playing hurt all year.

Sure. So what's his excuse for the rest of his career?What are you talking about? His good minor league resume, or his lengthy major league career?

The fact is, he's never hit for average. He's another k-or-HR-ONLY hitter. His OBA/BA in the minors have sucked except for 1 lucky/career year. His OBA/BA in the bigs is middling. And he strikes out a TON. [I won't mention Fields' inabilty to field. It's just too easy to point out.]The fact is, you still don't have the facts. He spent exactly one year in AA, came up to AAA the following year and had a great season (i.e., his "lucky/career" year). Followed that up in 2007 with a slow start in April, which he improved upon immensely in May. Then he came up and had an okay rookie season in which he showed 35 homerun per year potential. Just not good enough for you, because they were not Evan Longoria numbers.

munchman33
10-08-2008, 06:12 PM
:puking:

kittle42
10-08-2008, 06:16 PM
Before you start typing, check your facts. We couldn't get anything for Crede, that is why he was not dealt. It had nothing to do with Fields, Kenny just didn't want to give Crede away. In retrospect, he probably should have just given him away.

When Crede went to the DL, Fields already had injury problems of his own. He was playing hurt all year.

What are you talking about? His good minor league resume, or his lengthy major league career?

The fact is, you still don't have the facts. He spent exactly one year in AA, came up to AAA the following year and had a great season (i.e., his "lucky/career" year). Followed that up in 2007 with a slow start in April, which he improved upon immensely in May. Then he came up and had an okay rookie season in which he showed 35 homerun per year potential. Just not good enough for you, because they were not Evan Longoria numbers.

You guys need to give up. It's like arguing politics with someone who only speaks in party line talking points. You can never convince the uninformed that they are wrong.

Craig Grebeck
10-08-2008, 06:44 PM
I love when guys rant and rant, spouting fallacies that can be prevented by using 15 seconds to look up someone's statistics.

My hat is off to you Khan.

khan
10-08-2008, 10:49 PM
What are you talking about? His good minor league resume, or his lengthy major league career?

Look:

In each and every year, Josh Fields averaged more than one K per game played. Even in his "good" season of 2006, he struck out 136 times in 124 games. In AAA. The fact of the matter is that Josh Fields is, was, and always will be a strikeout waiting to happen. In the minors, Josh Field hit above .300 exactly ONCE [outside a 4 game stint in single A]. He NEVER hit more than 20 HR in a season in the minors. By NO means has Josh Fields had a "good" minor league resume offensively.

Although fielding percentage and errors are highly imperfect metrics of a player's defensive abilities, these are none to kind to Fields, either. But in either case, his defense always has been poor at best.


Then he came up and had an okay rookie season in which he showed 35 homerun per year potential. Just not good enough for you, because they were not Evan Longoria numbers.

If you call swinging for the fences in garbage time an "OK season," then fine. He hit ALL OF .244 in his rookie year. His OBP was ALL of .308. This is, by ANY measure, a mediocre season. Bear in mind that, although most opponents likely did NOT have a book on Fields, he struck out 125 times in 100 games in his rookie year.

Defensively, his fielding percentage of .958 [again, not a perfect metric] showed that he was a poor defender.


Disagreed? Here: http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/fieldjo02.shtml

khan
10-08-2008, 10:56 PM
I love when guys rant and rant, spouting fallacies that can be prevented by using 15 seconds to look up someone's statistics.

So you're impressed by a career .303 OBP at the big league level? A .233 batting average? 150 Ks in 125 games in the bigs?

Too small a sample size?

How about only ONE above-.300 batting average season in 5 years in the minors? Or ZERO 20+ HR seasons? Or a minor league career Fielding Percentage of .927?

Feel free to accept mediocrity. I prefer to have a roster that has players that can actually hit and catch.

My hat is off to you Khan.
Thank you.

Craig Grebeck
10-08-2008, 11:43 PM
So you're impressed by a career .303 OBP at the big league level? A .233 batting average? 150 Ks in 125 games in the bigs?

Too small a sample size?

How about only ONE above-.300 batting average season in 5 years in the minors? Or ZERO 20+ HR seasons? Or a minor league career Fielding Percentage of .927?

Feel free to accept mediocrity. I prefer to have a roster that has players that can actually hit and catch.


Thank you.
I personally love the fact that you chose "zero 20+ HR" seasons as a barometer for success in the minors. Nevermind that he hit 19 one year, and 23 in the majors.

I don't particularly care for Josh's style of play, but he certainly has a value as a lefty masher. His splits make it very obvious he should be a platoon/part time player somewhere. He's a phenomanal hitter against lefties.

NLaloosh
10-09-2008, 11:41 AM
I'm ok with him being on the roster in 2008 but definitely NOT as a starter. He's proved nothing and has low upside to begin with.

This would be a perfect shot for him to prove his worth as a bench player. If he shows good starter potential the Sox can always make room for him in the future.

But, I'd love to see him move in a package for Brian Roberts. Doubtful, I know.

Metalthrasher442
10-13-2008, 10:13 PM
Main priority is a speedy center fielder.

I'd say Getz has a better chance of starting than Fields does, but I will not be surprised if one of these two are starting next season. I would feel safer with Getz starting and batting ninth (Uribe-ish). I mean if Fields some how comes up with good defense, he wouldn't be a bad ninth spot hitter. Anyway we need this whole center field starter spot filled for good.

4 points
10-25-2008, 02:58 AM
Main priority is a speedy center fielder.

I'd say Getz has a better chance of starting than Fields does, but I will not be surprised if one of these two are starting next season. I would feel safer with Getz starting and batting ninth (Uribe-ish). I mean if Fields some how comes up with good defense, he wouldn't be a bad ninth spot hitter. Anyway we need this whole center field starter spot filled for good.

According to MLB.com, Getz wants to win the starting nod at 2nd in 2009. But you know the old saying, " You can`t always GETZ what you wants".:bandance:

grv1974
10-25-2008, 05:09 AM
According to MLB.com, Getz wants to win the starting nod at 2nd in 2009. But you know the old saying, " You can`t always GETZ what you wants".:bandance:

Nicely done.:D:

4 points
10-25-2008, 05:18 AM
Nicely done.:D:

If you try sometime, you just might find, your not what we need.

OK thats enough.:gulp:

Frater Perdurabo
10-25-2008, 07:24 AM
I have no problem if Getz earns the second base job.

guillen4life13
11-03-2008, 11:53 AM
I might catch crap for this but read me out: Tadahito Iguchi is a free agent and is only 34 next season. He's coming off a down year and I think he would be worth a look or even an invite to spring training. He could win the job and at least buy some time for the Sox to figure out what they need to do.

If he doesn't get a job in the MLB he plans to go back to play in Japan from the sources I have read. I'm not saying we sign him but I'm saying KW should take a look.

Lundind1
11-03-2008, 12:16 PM
I might catch crap for this but read me out: Tadahito Iguchi is a free agent and is only 34 next season. He's coming off a down year and I think he would be worth a look or even an invite to spring training. He could win the job and at least buy some time for the Sox to figure out what they need to do.

If he doesn't get a job in the MLB he plans to go back to play in Japan from the sources I have read. I'm not saying we sign him but I'm saying KW should take a look.

That would solve for the #2 spot.

whitesox901
11-03-2008, 12:20 PM
I have no problem if Getz earns the second base job.

X marks the spot, if he can earn it, which I am hoping he can, I would love to have him at 2B

PalehosePlanet
11-03-2008, 12:24 PM
X marks the spot, if he can earn it, which I am hoping he can, I would love to have him at 2B

The problem is if we bring in a veteran 2B via trade or FA, Getz will not have a shot at earning the job. However, if we do not bring in a veteran and Getz does not earn the job, then we have nothing at the position.

I would rather not take the latter risk, and would rather have him play his rookie MLB season as a reserve.

hellview
11-03-2008, 12:26 PM
This is gonna sound crazy but I dont' really care.

If I were the Sox I would bring Nick Punto into town. He's got great defense all over the infield.He's not gonna cost any draft picks, he's got some speed and switch hits. His 2007 was an aberation and he's proved he's a decent starter.

I'd do it.

Taliesinrk
11-03-2008, 12:55 PM
This is gonna sound crazy but I dont' really care.

If I were the Sox I would bring Nick Punto into town. He's got great defense all over the infield.He's not gonna cost any draft picks, he's got some speed and switch hits. His 2007 was an aberation and he's proved he's a decent starter.

I'd do it.

Puke

Craig Grebeck
11-03-2008, 12:55 PM
This is gonna sound crazy but I dont' really care.

If I were the Sox I would bring Nick Punto into town. He's got great defense all over the infield.He's not gonna cost any draft picks, he's got some speed and switch hits. His 2007 was an aberation and he's proved he's a decent starter.

I'd do it.
It sounds crazy because it's a terrible idea. He can't hit for **** outside the Metrodome.

Taliesinrk
11-03-2008, 12:58 PM
It sounds crazy because it's a terrible idea. He can't hit for **** outside the Metrodome.

The End is Coming!!! Grebeck agrees!!:o:

Frater Perdurabo
11-03-2008, 06:43 PM
It sounds crazy because it's a terrible idea. He can't hit for **** outside the Metrodome.

Sign him just to start in the dome. :tongue:

guillensdisciple
11-03-2008, 07:21 PM
I would have no problem with Getz playing second, he is a scrappy baseball player, and those are always great for teams who are looking to compete and need that killer instinct.

Think about it, the Sox seemed dead out there sometimes, a player like Getz revitalizes the team when needed.

palehozenychicty
11-04-2008, 08:49 AM
I think if Getz plays well in spring training, he should start. At some point, the organization is going to have to fill needs from within, even if they don't bowl you over immediately. Getz is a good risk to take at second.

btrain929
11-04-2008, 09:39 AM
With Williams "supposedly" wanting to inject more youth from our system into our big league squad, a battle royale between Getz and Nix would definitely be a good one to watch. They both have something to prove, they both have done very well in the minors, and both haven't gotten "serious" chances to prove themselves at the big league level as of yet. If we could fill our 2B void and the #8-9 spot (worst case) or #2 spot (best case) in our lineup from one of these guys, I'd be ecstatic.

russ99
11-04-2008, 09:41 AM
I think if Getz plays well in spring training, he should start. At some point, the organization is going to have to fill needs from within, even if they don't bowl you over immediately. Getz is a good risk to take at second.

We need a #1 and #2 hitter from LF/CF, 3B and 2B/SS. Unless we get those in the other 2 areas, I doubt Getz will start.

I think all this youth movement talk is all a smokescreen by Kenny.

palehozenychicty
11-04-2008, 10:48 AM
We need a #1 and #2 hitter from LF/CF, 3B and 2B/SS. Unless we get those in the other 2 areas, I doubt Getz will start.

I think all this youth movement talk is all a smokescreen by Kenny.

You may be right. But the market for those kind of players at those positions is small right now, so nothing will get clearer until December and January after all the meetings and many free agents sign. If they make upgrades at third and center field, I think that we could live with Getz/Nix at second. The center field market doesn't look promising either. We just don't know yet.

I'm not in love with Hudson, though, like others. I find him too brittle and doesn't bring the athleticism that this team desperately needs.

I'm just saying that if Getz plays well, and has a chance to win the job, then play him. If he doesn't play well, then it's all good.

PaleHoser
11-04-2008, 11:22 AM
a battle royale between Getz and Nix would definitely be a good one to watch.

With luck it would turn out like last year's Owens/Quentin battle royale and the "loser" ends up with the starting job and has an MVP-caliber season.

NLaloosh
11-04-2008, 11:29 AM
With luck it would turn out like last year's Owens/Quentin battle royale and the "loser" ends up with the starting job and has an MVP-caliber season.

The only difference is that Getz and Nix are much more like Owens in ability and nothing at all like Quentin. So, there's very little upside for 2 players that are utility types anyway.

I doubt very much that Kenny let's it come to that.

soulfly
11-05-2008, 04:03 AM
This is gonna sound crazy but I dont' really care.

If I were the Sox I would bring Nick Punto into town. He's got great defense all over the infield.He's not gonna cost any draft picks, he's got some speed and switch hits. His 2007 was an aberation and he's proved he's a decent starter.

I'd do it.

I would boo him worse than I have booed him when we have played him in the past.

He is probably the player I hate the most in the entire league. He is everything I hate about Minnesota.

No sir, I do not want that turd on this team. In fact, I would love nothing more than to never see him ever again, on any team, let only the one I love.