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getonbckthr
10-06-2008, 09:13 PM
C- AJ Pierzynski
C-
DH- Jim Thome
1B- Paul Konerko
2B-
SS- Alexei Ramirez
3B-
IF-
LF- Carlos Quentin
CF-
RF- Jermaine Dye
OF- Dewayne Wise
UT- Swisher
SP- Mark Buerhle
SP- John Danks
SP- Gavin Floyd
SP- Javy Vazquez
SP-
CL- Bobby Jenks
RP- Matt Thornton
RP- Octavio Dotel
RP- Scot Linebrink
RP- DJ Carrasco
RP-
RP-
------------------------------------
We have holes to fill for next season. Additional money is Contreras at I believe 10 million. I don't really want to acquire or sign a 5th starter. I want Clayton Richard to get that spot. At least to me he has proven he deserves it next season. For those with doubts just look at Danks and Floyd. As much as Javy crapped his pants how many 4th starters are as good as Javy?

sox1970
10-06-2008, 09:20 PM
Swisher won't be a bench player next year. He'll either be traded, or he'll be in the opening day lineup. Gut feeling? He gone.

I want Richard in the pen.

Scottiehaswheels
10-06-2008, 09:21 PM
Probably Uribe for IF, Toby Hall again for b/u catcher. Contreras in there somewhere when he gets back. 2B Mark Ellis? 3B Casey Blake? both signed to 2 year deals with options? CF I have no idea.

JermaineDye05
10-06-2008, 09:22 PM
Swisher won't be a bench player next year. He'll either be traded, or he'll be in the opening day lineup. Gut feeling? He gone.

I want Richard in the pen.


My gut feeling says Swisher is the starting 1st baseman for the Sox next year, and he has a bounce back season.

AVG .260ish HR 35 RBI 105 OBP .375

sox1970
10-06-2008, 09:26 PM
My gut feeling says Swisher is the starting 1st baseman for the Sox next year, and he has a bounce back season.

AVG .260ish HR 35 RBI 105 OBP .375

Time will tell with Swisher. He was probably jerked around too much this year. Too many positions. Too many spots in the lineup. IMO, it's Swisher or Konerko that have to go. Obviously with Konerko's contract status, it may be tough to move him. He would probably approve a trade to the Angels, but who knows if they'll go that way.

getonbckthr
10-06-2008, 09:31 PM
Time will tell with Swisher. He was probably jerked around too much this year. Too many positions. Too many spots in the lineup. IMO, it's Swisher or Konerko that have to go. Obviously with Konerko's contract status, it may be tough to move him. He would probably approve a trade to the Angels, but who knows if they'll go that way.
I don't think its guarentee either Paulie or Nick. Especially considering what we gave up for Swisher. There is a possibility either Thome or Dye are dealt pending on the return. Ideal is a Figgins for Konerko deal. The great thing about Figgins is that he can play CF, 2B or 3B. I'm curious if that deal can be made would KW be comfortable enough to go with Fields at 3B and Anderson in CF with Getz as the backup IF. Josh struggles move Figgins to 3B and Getz to 2B.

munchman33
10-06-2008, 09:48 PM
C- AJ Pierzynski
C- Toby Hall
DH- Jim Thome
1B- Paul Konerko
2B- Mark Ellis
SS- Alexei Ramirez
3B- Hank Blalock
IF- Josh Fields
LF- Carlos Quentin
CF- Juan Pierre
RF- Nick Swisher
OF- Dewayne Wise, Brian Anderson
UT- Uribe
SP- Mark Buerhle
SP- John Danks
SP- Gavin Floyd
SP- Justin Duchscherer
SP- Richard/Broadway/pitcher from Javy or Dye trade
CL- Bobby Jenks
RP- Matt Thornton
RP- Octavio Dotel
RP- Scot Linebrink
RP- DJ Carrasco
RP- Wasserman
RP- Richard/Broadway/pitcher from Javy or Dye trade


I think Dye is gone, as our most valuable trading piece. I also think the writing on the wall is there for Javy to leave. Both will go in deals for young pitching.

Kenny likes to trade with Billy Beane, and Duchscherer's value has never been higher. Expect Kenny to pay a king's ransom, probably including some of the prospects he got in the aforementioned deals.

Mark Ellis is a free agent. After we strike out on Hudson, expect Kenny to move quick on a two year deal for Ellis.

As much as I think Nick Swisher is a worthless piece of ****, I fully expect him to be back. Kenny is stubborn, and more importantly, Swish has no trade value right now. And Kenny doesn't like to sell low. So expect Nick to get at least half a season to prove his worth (or lack thereof) in Dye's old spot.

Pierre is exactly the kind of player Ozzie covets. And the Dodgers would be more than willing to pay a portion of his salary if we simply take him off their hands. Kenny will very likely jump at the chance.

Uribe has more than proven his worth as a utility infielder. I think we pay him to stay. I think Wise and BA will be back too. Toby would be cheap to resign, and we probably will tender him a one year deal for no other reason than familiarity with the staff.

The pen is pretty set already. The only real question is whether or not Wasserman makes the team, or if a guy like Adam Russell takes the spot from him. But it's Wasserman's to lose.

Blalock probably will be non-tendered by Texas. Even if he isn't, he could be had pretty easily.

Jurr
10-06-2008, 09:48 PM
Time will tell with Swisher. He was probably jerked around too much this year. Too many positions. Too many spots in the lineup. IMO, it's Swisher or Konerko that have to go. Obviously with Konerko's contract status, it may be tough to move him. He would probably approve a trade to the Angels, but who knows if they'll go that way.
Probably? He batted in almost every spot. When Griffey came he became a platoon guy. For ****'s sake...play the guy every day in the same spot like you did Thome's worthless, one dimensional ass and he probably would have had better production. Plus the kid can play a millon positions and switch hit.

Were his numbers directly impacted by being jerked around by Ozzie. Without a ****ing doubt. Easily the stupidest thing about 2008.

btrain929
10-06-2008, 09:51 PM
I don't think its guarentee either Paulie or Nick. Especially considering what we gave up for Swisher. There is a possibility either Thome or Dye are dealt pending on the return. Ideal is a Figgins for Konerko deal. The great thing about Figgins is that he can play CF, 2B or 3B. I'm curious if that deal can be made would KW be comfortable enough to go with Fields at 3B and Anderson in CF with Getz as the backup IF. Josh struggles move Figgins to 3B and Getz to 2B.

Thome has some sort of no trade clause. I am about 75% sure Dye will be traded. We wouldn't be losing anything that we don't already have: mediocre OF defense and power. Swisher can play a corner and give us that. It's foolish to think Swisher will bat .220 again. He had to transition to playing in a city and for a media that actually gives a **** about the team and criticizes players. He also is coming off a terrible year and knows he needs to get better. If he gives us .240-.250 with a .375 OBP and 28HR/80RBI, Dye will be replaced. And those numbers are low on the spectrum. He can easily exceed those numbers. Dye's value is high and should bring a few good players in return to fill holes. If we trade Konerko, I doubt we get anything good. So we trade what we have an excess of (OF's) to fill a hole (CF, 3B, SP, etc).

sox1970
10-06-2008, 09:51 PM
Probably? He batted in almost every spot. When Griffey came he became a platoon guy. For ****'s sake...play the guy every day in the same spot like you did Thome's worthless, one dimensional ass and he probably would have had better production. Plus the kid can play a millon positions and switch hit.

Were his numbers directly impacted by being jerked around by Ozzie. Without a ****ing doubt. Easily the stupidest thing about 2008.

I'm definitely ok with sticking with Swisher, as long as it's at 1st base and he's batting 6th or 7th.

FedEx227
10-06-2008, 09:52 PM
As much as I think Nick Swisher is a worthless piece of ****, I fully expect him to be back. Kenny is stubborn, and more importantly, Swish has no trade value right now. And Kenny doesn't like to sell low. So expect Nick to get at least half a season to prove his worth (or lack thereof) in Dye's old spot.

Pierre is exactly the kind of player Ozzie covets. And the Dodgers would be more than willing to pay a portion of his salary if we simply take him off their hands. Kenny will very likely jump at the chance.

So you think Nick Swisher is a piece of ****. But you've continually supported the idea of picking up a .283/.327/.328, 70 OPS+, 78% SB success, arm of a 5-year old girl piece of ****?

munchman33
10-06-2008, 09:55 PM
So you think Nick Swisher is a piece of ****. But you've continually supported the idea of picking up a .283/.327/.328, 70 OPS+, 78% SB success, arm of a 5-year old girl piece of ****?

I sure do.

This is what I see happening, not what I want to happen. Though I would much rather have Pierre here than Swisher. Pierre puts the ball in play. Swisher stares at strike three.

Sockinchisox
10-06-2008, 10:00 PM
Mark Ellis is a free agent. After we strike out on Hudson, expect Kenny to move quick on a two year deal for Ellis.



Buster Olney said the A's and Mark Ellis are already negotiating a contract.

munchman33
10-06-2008, 10:03 PM
Buster Olney said the A's and Mark Ellis are already negotiating a contract.

Well ****.

David Eckstein then. Grindiness factor.

Lefty34
10-06-2008, 10:05 PM
I sure do.

This is what I see happening, not what I want to happen. Though I would much rather have Pierre here than Swisher. Pierre puts the ball in play. Swisher stares at strike three.

You have got to be kidding me. You will take Juan Pierre over Nick Swisher? He has a career SLG of .371. .371! That is horrendous. Not to mention is girly-arm and inability to take a walk. You know who else can put the ball in play? Someone that bunts every single AB they get, does that make them a good or worthwhile hitter? Most certainly not (unless by some miracle they can get on base at a good clip). Give me a break

FedEx227
10-06-2008, 10:06 PM
Well ****.

David Eckstein then. Grindiness factor.

....kill me now. :angry::angry:

Lefty34
10-06-2008, 10:07 PM
Well ****.

David Eckstein then. Grindiness factor.

Now you're just grasping at straws. David ****ing Eckstein? come on

RKMeibalane
10-06-2008, 10:08 PM
Pierre puts the ball in play.

And the ball goes rolling right to the opposing second baseman.

btrain929
10-06-2008, 10:10 PM
Buster Olney said the A's and Mark Ellis are already negotiating a contract.

Yeah, sounds like us and Cabrera in spring training.

FedEx227
10-06-2008, 10:12 PM
And the ball goes rolling right to the opposing second baseman.

But he's fast, so like it's a close play.... so that counts for something, right?!

Lefty34
10-06-2008, 10:14 PM
But he's fast, so like it's a close play.... so that counts for something, right?!

There's defiance in the house....

There's a boxer in the house....

...
10-06-2008, 10:16 PM
I sure do.

This is what I see happening, not what I want to happen. Though I would much rather have Pierre here than Swisher. Pierre puts the ball in play. Swisher stares at strike three.

You and Swish have more in common than you thought.

soxwon
10-06-2008, 10:51 PM
C- AJ Pierzynski
C- Toby Hall
DH- Jim Thome
1B- Nick Swisher
2B-
SS- Alexei Ramirez
3B- Josh Fields/uribe
IF-
LF- Carlos Quentin
CF- Veteran Leadoff Hitter
Ken griifey jr/BA
RF- Jermaine Dye
OF- Dewayne Wise
UT- Swisher
SP- Mark Buerhle
SP- John Danks
SP- Gavin Floyd
SP- Jon garland
SP- Clayton Richards
CL- Bobby Jenks
RP- Matt Thornton
RP- Octavio Dotel
RP- Scot Linebrink
RP- DJ Carrasco
RP- Chad Bradford
RP- Jose Contreras

gr8mexico
10-06-2008, 10:55 PM
C- AJ Pierzynski
C- Toby Hall
DH- Jim Thome
1B- Nick Swisher (Gone Paul Konerko)
2B- Mark Ellis (free agent)
SS- Alexei Ramirez
3B- Adrian Beltre (Trade)
IF- Juan Uribe
LF- Carlos Quentin
CF- Rocco Baldelli (Free Agent)
RF- Juan Pierre (Gone Jermaine Dye )
OF- Dewayne Wise
UT- Willie Bloomquist (Free Agent)
SP- Mark Buerhle
SP- John Danks
SP- Gavin Floyd
SP- Brad Penny (Gone Javy Vazquez)
SP- Clayton Richard
CL- Bobby Jenks
RP- Matt Thornton
RP- Octavio Dotel
RP- Scot Linebrink
RP- DJ Carrasco
RP- Juan Cruz (Free Agent)
RP- Aaron Poreda

Traded Paul Konerko 12MIL, Jermaine Dye 10MIL , Javier Vazquez 11 MIL
Gone Orlando Cabrera 10MIL , Joe Crede 5 MIL Total Savings of 48 MIL

Scottiehaswheels
10-06-2008, 10:58 PM
C- AJ Pierzynski
C- Toby Hall
DH- Jim Thome
1B- Nick Swisher (Gone Paul Konerko)
2B- Mark Ellis (free agent)
SS- Alexei Ramirez
3B- Adrian Beltre (Trade)
IF- Juan Uribe
LF- Carlos Quentin
CF- Rocco Baldelli (Free Agent)
RF- Juan Pierre (Gone Jermaine Dye )
OF- Dewayne Wise
UT- Willie Bloomquist (Free Agent)
SP- Mark Buerhle
SP- John Danks
SP- Gavin Floyd
SP- Brad Penny (Gone Javy Vazquez)
SP- Clayton Richard
CL- Bobby Jenks
RP- Matt Thornton
RP- Octavio Dotel
RP- Scot Linebrink
RP- DJ Carrasco
RP- Juan Cruz (Free Agent)
RP- Aaron Poread
Pierre? in RF? Really? :puking:I don't think he would be good enough to throw to 1B from 2B let alone anything from RF. I guess we'd constantly play with the shift on and pray he could hit the 2B standing in RF for cutoff.

Craig Grebeck
10-06-2008, 10:59 PM
Thanks for keeping me laughing guys. Juan Pierre in RF?

...
10-06-2008, 11:02 PM
Thanks for keeping me laughing guys. Juan Pierre in RF?

It's a pretty easy fix, Quentin would be in RF and Pierre in LF.

Lefty34
10-06-2008, 11:04 PM
I don't know if people know this, but just so we are all clear: Juan Pierre is not good. He is a so-so base stealer at best, cannot get on base when he is not getting hits, and throws like a girl. And in RF? Are you serious? See: "throws like a girl"

Craig Grebeck
10-06-2008, 11:04 PM
It's a pretty easy fix, Quentin would be in RF and Pierre in LF.
Thanks for the laugh. Pierre in the AL?

Scottiehaswheels
10-06-2008, 11:05 PM
See: "throws like a girl"Hey, my wife/mother have better arms.... It's more PC to say he throws like Juan Pierre. Oh... wait....

Lefty34
10-06-2008, 11:06 PM
It's a pretty easy fix, Quentin would be in RF and Pierre in LF.

Are you Bill Plaschke?

gr8mexico
10-06-2008, 11:08 PM
Ok everybody talk about how much they hate Juan Pierre What other options are out there? I would play Pierre in the OF until Thome is gone and have him DH in 2010. Pierre can still steal bases and will put the bat on the ball

Craig Grebeck
10-06-2008, 11:14 PM
Ok everybody talk about how much they hate Juan Pierre What other options are out there? I would play Pierre in the OF until Thome is gone and have him DH in 2010. Pierre can still steal bases and will put the bat on the ball
And he will also put the ball in the glove of the second baseman. He is a remarkably futile hitter.

Lefty34
10-06-2008, 11:14 PM
Ok everybody talk about how much they hate Juan Pierre What other options are out there? I would play Pierre in the OF until Thome is gone and have him DH in 2010. Pierre can still steal bases and will put the bat on the ball

DH?! Juan Pierre: DH for your Chicago White Sox in 2010? Sound dumb to anyone else, or is that just me? The guy has never hit more than 3 HR's in a season...3! DH? He has a career SLG of .371! DH?

And wait, 2010, so you want to sign Juan Pierre (and all of his 13 mammoth career HR jobs) to a multi-year deal? Then put him at DH? Oh God...

...
10-06-2008, 11:16 PM
Thanks for the laugh. Pierre in the AL?

I was never a proponent of Pierre roaming the OF for the Sox but it was pretty clear that IF he were, he would be in LF and Quentin in RF. I'm not sure what was so funny?

Scottiehaswheels
10-06-2008, 11:17 PM
Ok everybody talk about how much they hate Juan Pierre What other options are out there? I would play Pierre in the OF until Thome is gone and have him DH in 2010. Pierre can still steal bases and will put the bat on the ballThat's kind of the problem dude. We're stuck with what we have for the most part. Nobody is going to be willing to take on a 39 year old Thome contract. I'd love to one day see us with a speedster/high OBP DH but that won't be until '10 at the earliest. We have a lot of other guys that can slug HR's but no real speedy guys. Every single guy that stole over 30 SB's this year is locked into pretty inexpensive contracts for their respective teams, other than say Winn or Dave Roberts. And those guys play positions we really can't use them for. Maybe we'll have a more "Ozzieball" lineup in '10 but '09 doesn't look good for that sort of thing. Best we can do is sign a couple good line drive hitters and pray our drafts from this past year and next work out well.

...
10-06-2008, 11:19 PM
Are you Bill Plaschke?

Yes I am.

Lefty34
10-06-2008, 11:20 PM
Yes I am.

I'm sorry

...
10-06-2008, 11:23 PM
I'm sorry

No you're not.

gr8mexico
10-06-2008, 11:23 PM
DH?! Juan Pierre: DH for your Chicago White Sox in 2010? Sound dumb to anyone else, or is that just me? The guy has never hit more than 3 HR's in a season...3! DH? He has a career SLG of .371! DH?

And wait, 2010, so you want to sign Juan Pierre (and all of his 13 mammoth career HR jobs) to a multi-year deal? Then put him at DH? Oh God...
First Pierre still has 3 years left in his contract so yes HE WOULD STILL BE HERE and who says a guy like Pierre couldn't DH. Oh wait you still want the OLD fart playing DH and hope he hits a home run OK.

oeo
10-06-2008, 11:26 PM
As much as I think Nick Swisher is a worthless piece of ****, I fully expect him to be back. Kenny is stubborn, and more importantly, Swish has no trade value right now. And Kenny doesn't like to sell low. So expect Nick to get at least half a season to prove his worth (or lack thereof) in Dye's old spot.

Pierre is exactly the kind of player Ozzie covets. And the Dodgers would be more than willing to pay a portion of his salary if we simply take him off their hands. Kenny will very likely jump at the chance.

You think Swisher is a worthless piece of ****, and yet you want Juan ****ing Pierre roaming centerfield? :puking:

Lefty34
10-06-2008, 11:31 PM
First Pierre still has 3 years left in his contract so yes HE WOULD STILL BE HERE and who says a guy like Pierre couldn't DH. Oh wait you still want the OLD fart playing DH and hope he hits a home run OK.

So you think a 33 year-old Juan Pierre will be able to contribute to this White Sox team from the DH position, or any other position for that matter? That's just ludicrous.

Did I say I want the "old fart" playing DH? There is a difference between who I want to be the DH of our squad and who actually will be.

EDIT: He is 30 now, and will be DHing for us (in your messed up little dream world) by the time he is 33. You still think he will be able to steal bases with any consistency at 33?

gr8mexico
10-06-2008, 11:32 PM
The only leadoff hitters that are available for next year might be
Juan Pierre
Brian Roberts
Orlando Hudson
Willy Taveras
If the Sox want to take a risk they could go for Hudson but he will cost them.

Craig Grebeck
10-06-2008, 11:34 PM
First Pierre still has 3 years left in his contract so yes HE WOULD STILL BE HERE and who says a guy like Pierre couldn't DH. Oh wait you still want the OLD fart playing DH and hope he hits a home run OK.
Oh wait you want a young waste of space and hope he hits a seeing eye single between the second baseman and first baseman OK

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuation_mark

Craig Grebeck
10-06-2008, 11:35 PM
The only leadoff hitters that are available for next year might be
Juan Pierre
Brian Roberts
Orlando Hudson
Willy Taveras
If the Sox want to take a risk they could go for Hudson but he will cost them.
Taveras is worthless as an everyday player and may be non-tendered.

Lefty34
10-06-2008, 11:36 PM
The only leadoff hitters that are available for next year might be
Juan Pierre
Brian Roberts
Orlando Hudson
Willy Taveras
If the Sox want to take a risk they could go for Hudson but he will cost them.

And Juan Pierre will cost the Sox in a lot of key offensive categories. I'd rather spend the cash than watch that guy run around the outfield in his 8" hat and 2XL Tall-Tee jersey.

Scottiehaswheels
10-06-2008, 11:36 PM
Taveras is worthless as an everyday player and may be non-tendered.Walker will fix him!:D:

WhiteSox5187
10-06-2008, 11:43 PM
The only leadoff hitters that are available for next year might be
Juan Pierre
Brian Roberts
Orlando Hudson
Willy Taveras
If the Sox want to take a risk they could go for Hudson but he will cost them.
Unless the O's figure they don't have what it takes to re-sign Roberts and are willing to give him away as a rental (I believe he is a free agent AFTER the '09 season), I don't think we have what it takes to get him, but I'd love to have him on the southside.

...
10-06-2008, 11:44 PM
Taveras is worthless as an everyday player and may be non-tendered.

Ricky Henderson or bust!

TheOldRoman
10-06-2008, 11:49 PM
ATTENTION: Carlos Quentin is a right fielder. He has played RF throughout his career. He would have been a better RF than Dye this year, and Jermaine should have been in LF from day one. Unless you have Dye returning (because Ozzie would likely stick with him in right), Quentin is your right fielder.

slavko
10-07-2008, 12:23 AM
Pierre. Funny-looking guy. Don't like him. Could Getz develop leadoff skills? Bourgeois?

WhiteSox5187
10-07-2008, 01:07 AM
Pierre. Funny-looking guy. Don't like him. Could Getz develop leadoff skills? Bourgeois?
Getz COULD be a leadoff guy, but it's a big gamble to take on a team that is expected to contend. Bourgeois is a career minor leaguer.

1908<2005
10-07-2008, 01:07 AM
Juan Pierre is awful.
[/thread]

Rockabilly
10-07-2008, 01:09 AM
I think the following players wont be back next year

Konerko
Crede
Cabrera
Vazquez
Uribe
Hall
Anderson
Logan

oeo
10-07-2008, 01:34 AM
Pierre. Funny-looking guy. Don't like him.

He also wears pants three sizes too big, is about as good of outfielder as Jerry Owens, and has the same arm strength as him too. The only thing Pierre has on Owens, is he's perfected the art of the infield single.

kruzer31
10-07-2008, 02:25 AM
I dont want Toby Hall back. He is a bum. I dont want Orlando Cabrera back he is just a pain in the clubhouse and I do not want Boone Logan in anywhere near the state of IL.


Jeff

grv1974
10-07-2008, 04:28 AM
He also wears pants three sizes too big, is about as good of outfielder as Jerry Owens, and has the same arm strength as him too. The only thing Pierre has on Owens, is he's perfected the art of the infield single.

:rolling:

btrain929
10-07-2008, 09:29 AM
I dont want Toby Hall back. He is a bum. I dont want Orlando Cabrera back he is just a pain in the clubhouse and I do not want Boone Logan in anywhere near the state of IL.


Jeff

I wouldn't mind Toby back (we have an option on him). If we don't, I'd really like us to bring back Olivo. He can hit occasionally, is a righty, and he can actually throw out runners. Plus I don't think he'll cost that much.

cws05champ
10-07-2008, 09:32 AM
Furcal is a free agent as well. Although he is an injury risk, I wouldn't mind seeing him signed to a higher $$ 2 year deal for SS and leadoff. You could break in Chris Getz or platoon him at 2B with Uribe, and move Alexei to CF(who showed in limited time that he was pretty good out there). I beleive Dye will be traded, and possibly Josh Fields, but I'm not sure who we would get in return.

C- AJ Pierzynski
C- A backup that can actually throw out a runner, offense is immaterial
DH- Thome
1B- Konerko
2B- Getz/Uribe
SS- Rafael Furcal
3B- Josh Fields
IF- Uribe/Getz
LF- Carlos Quentin
CF- Alexei Ramirez
RF- Swisher
OF- Dewayne Wise/ BA
UT-
SP- Mark Buerhle
SP- John Danks
SP- Gavin Floyd
SP- Vazquez
SP- Clayton Richard

CL- Bobby Jenks
RP- Matt Thornton
RP- Octavio Dotel
RP- Scot Linebrink
RP- DJ Carrasco
RP- Juan Cruz
RP- Poreda/ Jose Contreras

JohnTucker0814
10-07-2008, 09:55 AM
Furcal is a free agent as well. Although he is an injury risk, I wouldn't mind seeing him signed to a higher $$ 2 year deal for SS and leadoff. You could break in Chris Getz or platoon him at 2B with Uribe, and move Alexei to CF(who showed in limited time that he was pretty good out there). I beleive Dye will be traded, and possibly Josh Fields, but I'm not sure who we would get in return.

C- AJ Pierzynski
C- A backup that can actually throw out a runner, offense is immaterial
DH- Thome
1B- Konerko
2B- Alexei Ramirez
SS- Rafael Furcal
3B- Josh Fields
IF- Uribe/Getz
LF- Nick Swisher
CF- Brian Anderson
RF- Carlos Quentin
OF- Dewayne Wise/ BA
UT-
SP- Mark Buerhle
SP- John Danks
SP- Gavin Floyd
SP- Vazquez
SP- Clayton Richard

CL- Bobby Jenks
RP- Matt Thornton
RP- Octavio Dotel
RP- Scot Linebrink
RP- DJ Carrasco
RP- Juan Cruz
RP- Poreda/ Jose Contreras

I like this line-up, but if your going to have a weak hitting 2b in Gets or Uribe, I'd rather have the defense of Anderson in center and move Alexei back to 2b where he was pretty good and would be an outstanding DB partner with Furcal... your line-up would be:

1. Furcal - SS
2. Ramirez - 2b
3. Quentin - rf
4. Thome - dh
5. Konerko - 1b
6. Pierzynski - c
7. Swisher - lf
8. Fields - 3b
9. Anderson - cf

Seems like a pretty solid roster and all you really have to do is pay money to Furcal and you could use Dye as trade to get some solid AAA prospects.

Imagine how much more ground our OF could cover with TCQ, Anderson and Swisher everyday?

oeo
10-07-2008, 09:59 AM
I like this line-up, but if your going to have a weak hitting 2b in Gets or Uribe, I'd rather have the defense of Anderson in center and move Alexei back to 2b where he was pretty good and would be an outstanding DB partner with Furcal... your line-up would be:

1. Furcal - SS
2. Ramirez - 2b
3. Quentin - rf
4. Thome - dh
5. Konerko - 1b
6. Pierzynski - c
7. Swisher - lf
8. Fields - 3b
9. Anderson - cf

Seems like a pretty solid roster and all you really have to do is pay money to Furcal and you could use Dye as trade to get some solid AAA prospects.

Imagine how much more ground our OF could cover with TCQ, Anderson and Swisher everyday?

Well this lineup really doesn't change many of our problems, but I agree that this is about all we're going to be able to get.

The only thing is, Alexei should not be at the top of the order. He's a run producer, he needs to be down in the order.

cws05champ
10-07-2008, 10:57 AM
Well this lineup really doesn't change many of our problems, but I agree that this is about all we're going to be able to get.

The only thing is, Alexei should not be at the top of the order. He's a run producer, he needs to be down in the order.
Alexei would undoubtedly get a ton of fastballs to hit with Furcal on base and TCQ hitting behind him though. I think he's a run producer too but you would put him a great position in the lineup to succeed and with his speed paired with Furcal it could change the dynamic at the top.


I like this line-up, but if your going to have a weak hitting 2b in Gets or Uribe, I'd rather have the defense of Anderson in center and move Alexei back to 2b where he was pretty good and would be an outstanding DB partner with Furcal...

OK, I agree to a point but we pretty much know what we have in Anderson offensively. The point was to see what we have in Getz and if he could be a full time player.

esbrechtel
10-07-2008, 11:16 AM
I'll bite....I have a feeling it might be a slight rebuilding year for the Sox

C- AJ Pierzynski
C- Toby Hall
DH- Jim Thome
1B- Paul Konerko
2B- Chris Getz
SS- Alexei Ramierez
3B- Josh Fields*
IF- Juan Uribe
LF- Carlos Quentin
CF- Brian Anderson
RF- Nick Swisher
OF- Dewayne Wise
UT- Jerry Owens
SP- Mark Buerhle
SP- John Danks
SP- Gavin Floyd
SP- Javy Vazquez
SP- Clayton Richard**
CL- Bobby Jenks
RP- Matt Thornton
RP- Octavio Dotel
RP- Scott Linebrink
RP- DJ Carrasco
RP- Jeremy Affelt (FA)
RP- Ehren Wasserman/Jose Contreras

Dye will be traded for some prospects

*only to start the year to up his trade value...he is gone by July
**I think he would be more effective out of the pen to get tough lefties out but we might not have a choice but to start him...

If he is such a great guy maybe Thome might restructure his contract and might take some less $ and set up a long-term pension plan (similar to GB's proposed deal with brett favre pre-trade) that would open up some more money and maybe they sign Hudson to a two year deal and give getz some more seasoning down in AAA

oeo
10-07-2008, 11:33 AM
Alexei would undoubtedly get a ton of fastballs to hit with Furcal on base and TCQ hitting behind him though. I think he's a run producer too but you would put him a great position in the lineup to succeed and with his speed paired with Furcal it could change the dynamic at the top.

Couldn't disagree more. I don't want to move our best hitter with RISP to the top of the order to get guys over. I want him driving in runs.

btrain929
10-07-2008, 12:35 PM
Couldn't disagree more. I don't want to move our best hitter with RISP to the top of the order to get guys over. I want him driving in runs.

Agreed. It sucks having guys on base and having the 6-7-8 hitters come up and do absolutely nothing. That's why I like AJ hitting 2 cuz he hardly strikes out and isn't a big RBI guy anyways. Having Alexei at 6-7 can clean up all the runs that the 8-9 guys (Uribe, Anderson, etc) won't drive in.

Tragg
10-07-2008, 12:36 PM
The best small ball team, the Angels, bunt the bottom of their order, not the top of their order, wasting outs in front of Vladimir. We don't need a bunter hitting 2nd. Intentionally making outs in front of Quentin is stupid.

Move Alexi to SS and get him a hitting coach.

Sign a FA 2B - I think there are some good ones.

Do something at 3B - I have no suggestions, though.

Move Konerko and/or Dye at a fair price if it's to be had. But we'll still need a 1B; Swisher doesn't have the O for 1B.

Flight #24
10-07-2008, 12:41 PM
Finances will factor in as well.

SP: Buehrle ($14M), Danks ($.33M), Floyd ($.33m), Javy ($11.5M), Richard ($.33m). TOTAL--> $26.5M (Assume Contreras is paid by insurance.)

RP: Jenks (~$2M), Thornton ($1.325M), Linebrink ($4.5M), Dotel ($6M), Russell ($.33m), RP. TOTAL--> $14M with 1 slot to fill.

1B: Konerko ($12M)
2B:
SS: Ramirez ($1.1M)
3B:
C: AJ ($6.25M)
DH: Thome ($7.5M) -->per MLB4U, 2009 option is at $13M with Phillies paying $5.5M
LF: Quentin ($.33m)
CF:
RF: Dye ($11.5M)
TOTAL-->$39M

Bench: Swisher ($5.3M), Hall ($2.25M), Wise ($.33M), rookie IF & OF. TOTAL--> $9M

Total payroll comes in at roughly $88-90M with 2B, 3B, CF, and RP needed. If you can swing a deal for Thome/Konerko/Swish, you save a bit more (depending on the salaries you take back obviously).

Assuming payroll is roughly $110M, that's $20M (or more if you get a bump). That lets you either sign 1-2 solid FAs or trade for a guy with a salary so you don't give up much. The only FA 2B worth anything is Hudson. 3B is someone like Blalock or mediocre guys like Feliz, Ensberg. CF is even worse (Cameron? DaVanon? Kotsay? Blech.).

FAs after 09 include
3B: Beltre ($12M), Melvin Mora, Figgins (
2B: Iwamura ($3.25M/pipe dream), Roberts ($8M)
CF: Freel ($4M), Crisp ($5.75M)

IIRC, Freel can also play 2B/3B and may come cheap because he's injury prone. So you could trade for him and rely on Herm to keep him on the field. If healthy, he's good for ~.275 / .370 with some speed. Figgins would be preferable, but probably tougher to get.

Freel+Getz at 2B, Beltre in a contract year at 3B with Fields or Uribe backing him up and Anderson in CF?

Freel-AJ-Quentin-Dye-Konerko/Thome-Thome/Swish-Ramirez-Beltre-Anderson gives you speed with Freel/Ramirez and to a lesser extent Beltre/Anderson/Swish. Still keep the power needed for USCF in Q-Dye-Thome-Konerko-Beltre and you add OBP at the top.

munchman33
10-07-2008, 01:05 PM
Finances will factor in as well.

SP: Buehrle ($14M), Danks ($.33M), Floyd ($.33m), Javy ($11.5M), Richard ($.33m). TOTAL--> $26.5M (Assume Contreras is paid by insurance.)

RP: Jenks (~$2M), Thornton ($1.325M), Linebrink ($4.5M), Dotel ($6M), Russell ($.33m), RP. TOTAL--> $14M with 1 slot to fill.

1B: Konerko ($12M)
2B:
SS: Ramirez ($1.1M)
3B:
C: AJ ($6.25M)
DH: Thome ($7.5M) -->per MLB4U, 2009 option is at $13M with Phillies paying $5.5M
LF: Quentin ($.33m)
CF:
RF: Dye ($11.5M)
TOTAL-->$39M

Bench: Swisher ($5.3M), Hall ($2.25M), Wise ($.33M), rookie IF & OF. TOTAL--> $9M

Total payroll comes in at roughly $88-90M with 2B, 3B, CF, and RP needed. If you can swing a deal for Thome/Konerko/Swish, you save a bit more (depending on the salaries you take back obviously).

Assuming payroll is roughly $110M, that's $20M (or more if you get a bump). That lets you either sign 1-2 solid FAs or trade for a guy with a salary so you don't give up much. The only FA 2B worth anything is Hudson. 3B is someone like Blalock or mediocre guys like Feliz, Ensberg. CF is even worse (Cameron? DaVanon? Kotsay? Blech.).

FAs after 09 include
3B: Beltre ($12M), Melvin Mora, Figgins (
2B: Iwamura ($3.25M/pipe dream), Roberts ($8M)
CF: Freel ($4M), Crisp ($5.75M)

IIRC, Freel can also play 2B/3B and may come cheap because he's injury prone. So you could trade for him and rely on Herm to keep him on the field. If healthy, he's good for ~.275 / .370 with some speed. Figgins would be preferable, but probably tougher to get.

Freel+Getz at 2B, Beltre in a contract year at 3B with Fields or Uribe backing him up and Anderson in CF?

Freel-AJ-Quentin-Dye-Konerko/Thome-Thome/Swish-Ramirez-Beltre-Anderson gives you speed with Freel/Ramirez and to a lesser extent Beltre/Anderson/Swish. Still keep the power needed for USCF in Q-Dye-Thome-Konerko-Beltre and you add OBP at the top.

As it's been stated here numerous times, Contreras' injury was not covered by the insurance. We're on the hook for all of it.

soxfan43
10-07-2008, 01:10 PM
As it's been stated here numerous times, Contreras' injury was not covered by the insurance. We're on the hook for all of it.

Any idea on the rules for this? Just curious. I know in the NBA a player has to retire due to that injury for insurance to cover it, is it the same for MLB? This is an issue now for that Darius miles dude, if he plays like 10 games for the Celtics, then Portland is on the hook for his huge contract.

getonbckthr
10-07-2008, 01:15 PM
Here's a name that I believe is a free agent and if not could probably be had. Mark Grudzielanek. I think he is better than Hudson and Ellis, possibly combined and would probably be cheaper. Not to mention his veteran prescence (sp) to bring in Getz.

Rockabilly
10-07-2008, 01:20 PM
My 2009 team

C AJ
1B Nick Swisher
2B Robinson Cano ( Floyd traded to NY)
SS Alexei Ramirez
3B Chone Figgins ( Konerko traded to LA)
DH Jermaine Dye
RF Carlos Quentin
CF Nate McClouth ( Richard, Fields and Poerda traded to Pitt)
LF Milton Bradley ( Free Agent)

Bench Getz Utily, Anderson OF, Wise OF, Loduca C

Starters
Mark Buehrle
Derek Lowe ( Free Agent)
John Danks
Eric Bedard ( Vazquez and Broadway)
Ian Snell ( part of the Richard, Poerda and Fields deal)

Bullpen
Matt Thornton LR
Kevin Gregg RR ( Free Agent)
Octavio Dotel RR
Scott Linebrink RR
Boone Logan LR
DJ Carrasco
Bobby Jenks Closer

Will trade Thome somewhere for 2 Mid level prospects

btrain929
10-07-2008, 01:23 PM
My 2009 team

C AJ
1B Nick Swisher
2B Robinson Cano ( Floyd traded to NY)
SS Alexei Ramirez
3B Chone Figgins ( Konerko traded to LA)
DH Jermaine Dye
RF Carlos Quentin
CF Nate McClouth ( Richard, Fields and Poerda traded to Pitt)
LF Milton Bradley ( Free Agent)

Bench Getz Utily, Anderson OF, Wise OF, Loduca C

Starters
Mark Buehrle
Derek Lowe ( Free Agent)
John Danks
Eric Bedard ( Vazquez and Broadway)
Ian Snell ( part of the Richard, Poerda and Fields deal)

Bullpen
Matt Thornton LR
Kevin Gregg RR ( Free Agent)
Octavio Dotel RR
Scott Linebrink RR
Boone Logan LR
DJ Carrasco
Bobby Jenks Closer

Will trade Thome somewhere for 2 Mid level prospects

I love when baseball games have the "fair trades" option that you can toggle OFF or ON.

The Milkman
10-07-2008, 01:28 PM
My 2009 team

C AJ
1B Nick Swisher
2B Robinson Cano ( Floyd traded to NY)
SS Alexei Ramirez
3B Chone Figgins ( Konerko traded to LA)
DH Jermaine Dye
RF Carlos Quentin
CF Nate McClouth ( Richard, Fields and Poerda traded to Pitt)
LF Milton Bradley ( Free Agent)

Bench Getz Utily, Anderson OF, Wise OF, Loduca C

Starters
Mark Buehrle
Derek Lowe ( Free Agent)
John Danks
Eric Bedard ( Vazquez and Broadway)
Ian Snell ( part of the Richard, Poerda and Fields deal)

Bullpen
Matt Thornton LR
Kevin Gregg RR ( Free Agent)
Octavio Dotel RR
Scott Linebrink RR
Boone Logan LR
DJ Carrasco
Bobby Jenks Closer

Will trade Thome somewhere for 2 Mid level prospects

Gavin straight up for Cano?!?!?!??

getonbckthr
10-07-2008, 01:41 PM
My 2009 team

C AJ
1B Nick Swisher
2B Robinson Cano ( Floyd traded to NY)
SS Alexei Ramirez
3B Chone Figgins ( Konerko traded to LA)
DH Jermaine Dye
RF Carlos Quentin
CF Nate McClouth ( Richard, Fields and Poerda traded to Pitt)
LF Milton Bradley ( Free Agent)

Bench Getz Utily, Anderson OF, Wise OF, Loduca C

Starters
Mark Buehrle
Derek Lowe ( Free Agent)
John Danks
Eric Bedard ( Vazquez and Broadway)
Ian Snell ( part of the Richard, Poerda and Fields deal)

Bullpen
Matt Thornton LR
Kevin Gregg RR ( Free Agent)
Octavio Dotel RR
Scott Linebrink RR
Boone Logan LR
DJ Carrasco
Bobby Jenks Closer

Will trade Thome somewhere for 2 Mid level prospects
So options are Floyd and sign say Grudzielanek at like 5 million or Cano and sign Lowe for around 16-18 million (projections i've seen for him)?

Lefty34
10-07-2008, 01:43 PM
My 2009 team

C AJ
1B Nick Swisher
2B Robinson Cano ( Floyd traded to NY)
SS Alexei Ramirez
3B Chone Figgins ( Konerko traded to LA)
DH Jermaine Dye
RF Carlos Quentin
CF Nate McClouth ( Richard, Fields and Poerda traded to Pitt)
LF Milton Bradley ( Free Agent)

Bench Getz Utily, Anderson OF, Wise OF, Loduca C

Starters
Mark Buehrle
Derek Lowe ( Free Agent)
John Danks
Eric Bedard ( Vazquez and Broadway)
Ian Snell ( part of the Richard, Poerda and Fields deal)

Bullpen
Matt Thornton LR
Kevin Gregg RR ( Free Agent)
Octavio Dotel RR
Scott Linebrink RR
Boone Logan LR
DJ Carrasco
Bobby Jenks Closer

Will trade Thome somewhere for 2 Mid level prospects

That's ridiculous. Why in the world would you ever want to trade away the future of our pitching rotation? And it's not as though he is an underachieving youngster who is only on the MLB roster because he is "the future", no, this guy has been great this year (1.260 WHIP and 119 ERA+) and will hopefully continue to be great until he and Danks take the reins of this rotation. Trade that? You must be joking.

Domeshot17
10-07-2008, 01:44 PM
This will be an interesting FA year for Kenny. He has money to spend but he also will have to win in FA for the first time since we brought in the crapshoots of Dye and AJ and Iguchi.

I see it like this


C- AJ Pierzynski
C- Toby Hall ***1***
DH- Jim Thome
1B- Paul Konerko
2B- Ramirez
SS- Furcal - Fa signing 4 years 50 mil
3B- Figgins - ***2***
IF- Juan Uribe
LF- Carlos Quentin
CF- Mark Kotsay - Fa Signing 2 years 15 mil
RF- Jermaine Dye
OF- Dewayne Wise
UT- Anderson
SP- Mark Buerhle
SP- John Danks
SP- Gavin Floyd
SP- Javy Vazquez
SP- Derek Lowe - Fa Signing 3 years 30 mil (although I dont really see this happening)
CL- Bobby Jenks
RP- Matt Thornton
RP- Octavio Dotel
RP- Scott Linebrink
RP- DJ Carrasco
RP- Juan Cruz
RP- Clayton Richard

***1***only maybe though, he sucks and has a big option, I would like to see us get a more defensive minded back up C because Hall doesn't call much of a game, but he is a good clubhouse guy

***2***Dealt for Nick Swisher who will ask to be dealt because of his relationship with Ozzie

getonbckthr
10-07-2008, 01:44 PM
If i'm trading Floyd for a second basemen his name better be Ian Kinsler.

Hitmen77
10-07-2008, 01:47 PM
As it's been stated here numerous times, Contreras' injury was not covered by the insurance. We're on the hook for all of it.

....plus we owe $2.65 million to MacDougal for 2009.

getonbckthr
10-07-2008, 01:47 PM
If there is any truth that the Cubs are even running the idea of not excercising Harden's 7 million dollar option KW should jump on that as fast as he can.

getonbckthr
10-07-2008, 01:48 PM
....plus we owe $2.65 million to MacDougal for 2009.
Maybe we should each donate $5 to pay off that mistake?:cool:

soxfan43
10-07-2008, 01:56 PM
Maybe we should each donate $5 to pay off that mistake?:cool:


Sounds like a plan, where do we send the money?

LITTLE NELL
10-07-2008, 02:36 PM
Swisher will be comeback player of the year. We can't give up on him after 1 year. PK had a horrible year about 5 years ago but we stayed with him. I still say the Sox should not have a regular DH, instead rotate Swish, PK and Dye at DH with Swish playing 1b and Rf.

Rockabilly
10-07-2008, 02:37 PM
I have seen a lot of people on this site a few years back wouldn't trade Crede and Brandon Mc Carthy for A Rod .. you just never know what might happen

Cano is a great player.. I bet if you ask Yankees fans and most of them would want a lot more than just Floyd for Cano

he has a lifetime batting avg of 303, OBP 335.

A infield of
Swisher, Cano, Alexei and Figgins would be amazing..

Lefty34
10-07-2008, 03:37 PM
***2***Dealt for Nick Swisher who will ask to be dealt because of his relationship with Ozzie

Now, let's say you are the Angels' GM, and you have a lead-off guy with a line of .276/.367/.318(eww). Although is SLG is atrocious, he has good speed and does what a lead-off man is supposed to do: get on base. Now here comes KW, and he offers you Nick Swisher for this lead-off guy, straight up. Swisher is coming off of a horrible year, and regardless of his potential to do much better (a potential he most certainly has), are you going to make this trade? Like, seriously?

And if you don't intend for the trade to be straight-up, and want to throw in some propsects, it would be ludicrous to do such damage to an already bad minor league system. The Sox are not going to get Figgins, at least in the way you want them to. It might come if Tex doesn't sign and we offer Paulie (and we would have to pay an ungodly amount of his contract) for Figgins, and even then we would have to throw in at least one good prospect. It just would not be good for the Sox in the long run, and I don't see it happening.

Domeshot17
10-07-2008, 04:01 PM
Now, let's say you are the Angels' GM, and you have a lead-off guy with a line of .276/.367/.318(eww). Although is SLG is atrocious, he has good speed and does what a lead-off man is supposed to do: get on base. Now here comes KW, and he offers you Nick Swisher for this lead-off guy, straight up. Swisher is coming off of a horrible year, and regardless of his potential to do much better (a potential he most certainly has), are you going to make this trade? Like, seriously?

And if you don't intend for the trade to be straight-up, and want to throw in some propsects, it would be ludicrous to do such damage to an already bad minor league system. The Sox are not going to get Figgins, at least in the way you want them to. It might come if Tex doesn't sign and we offer Paulie (and we would have to pay an ungodly amount of his contract) for Figgins, and even then we would have to throw in at least one good prospect. It just would not be good for the Sox in the long run, and I don't see it happening.

It all depends really. The angels watched Swisher in his best days play them hard in Oakland. He is coming off a down year and easily the worst of his career. Figgins is coming off a down year from his big season, is walk year, is rumored to be looked down upon by his team mates and management. If the Angels go out and throw a ton of money at CC-Krod-Picking up Vlads option like they are rumored to be, then yes, maybe they look at a reasonably priced Swisher as a guy who could flourish being back in California.

soxinem1
10-07-2008, 05:25 PM
Probably Uribe for IF, Toby Hall again for b/u catcher. Contreras in there somewhere when he gets back. 2B Mark Ellis? 3B Casey Blake? both signed to 2 year deals with options? CF I have no idea.

Hall is gone. He looks like 300 pounds of chewed bubble gum. Josh Bard from SD is available. He would be an ideal backup.

I also like Juan Cruz for the pen, and Mark Ellis could be a good pick up too. Herm can make Ellis healthy, but how does this add speed?

AzureJazzMan
10-07-2008, 07:04 PM
Not that I am a fan of bottomfeeding...However, in looking over the roster of the Pirates, we match up pretty well with them.

There is one guy in particular that has caught my eye in their minor league system (I've been keeping an eye on him for a little while), and I am wondering what it would take to pry him loose. His name is

Andrew McCutchen, CF (http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Andrew%20McCutchen&pos=135&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=457705)

He has a good batting eye, really nice speed, and knows how to execute fundamentals. He seems to me, a prototypical leadoff hitter and he is still young. A one two tandem of McCutchen, and Orlando Hudson (obviously a FA signing) could prove a pretty devastating punch to the opposition.

Then beyond that, call up the mess that is the Mariners, and ask if they would be willing to take Swisher, Griffin, and Getz for Adrian Beltre.

1. McCutchen
2. Hudson
3. Quentin
4. Dye
5. Thome
6. Beltre
7. Pierzynski
8. Konerko
9. Ramirez

I would think, that this combo would be well ballanced with Speed, Power, and Defense...

oeo
10-07-2008, 09:15 PM
***1***only maybe though, he sucks and has a big option, I would like to see us get a more defensive minded back up C because Hall doesn't call much of a game, but he is a good clubhouse guy

I say we just go with Donny Lucy. Not like we're losing much from Toby's weak bat, and Lucy is a very good defender.

Craig Grebeck
10-07-2008, 09:17 PM
Not that I am a fan of bottomfeeding...However, in looking over the roster of the Pirates, we match up pretty well with them.

There is one guy in particular that has caught my eye in their minor league system (I've been keeping an eye on him for a little while), and I am wondering what it would take to pry him loose. His name is

Andrew McCutchen, CF (http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Andrew%20McCutchen&pos=135&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=457705)

He has a good batting eye, really nice speed, and knows how to execute fundamentals. He seems to me, a prototypical leadoff hitter and he is still young. A one two tandem of McCutchen, and Orlando Hudson (obviously a FA signing) could prove a pretty devastating punch to the opposition.

Then beyond that, call up the mess that is the Mariners, and ask if they would be willing to take Swisher, Griffin, and Getz for Adrian Beltre.

1. McCutchen
2. Hudson
3. Quentin
4. Dye
5. Thome
6. Beltre
7. Pierzynski
8. Konerko
9. Ramirez

I would think, that this combo would be well ballanced with Speed, Power, and Defense...


Why on earth would the Pirates give him up?

EuroSox35
10-07-2008, 09:46 PM
I see holes at CF, 3B, 1 middle infielder, #4 or above starter, and probably a couple pen arms. The scary thing is there's a possibility for fixing most of these holes from within (and I don't see a lot of resistance from fans. Most people will probably say 'well, look what we did in 08, we'll still have Quentin, Ramirez, our pitchers, etc).

Then again, I like and trust Kenny, he's never the type to stand pat, so we'll see. That scenario with the Angels actually might have some legs, not a team you'd think Konerko would object to, but even though he fits that 'slow, HR guy' mold, I still like his bat. Ideally (not likely) I'd rather get rid of Thome

btrain929
10-07-2008, 09:47 PM
Why on earth would the Pirates give him up?

Exactly. He's been one of their top prospects for a few years now.

getonbckthr
10-07-2008, 09:48 PM
Exactly. He's been one of their top prospects for a few years now.
Reminds me of Joe Borchard based on that description.

Craig Grebeck
10-07-2008, 10:30 PM
Reminds me of Joe Borchard based on that description.
You could fairly easily google his statistics.

FedEx227
10-07-2008, 11:11 PM
Reminds me of Joe Borchard based on that description.

Sweet. Or you can have a rational thought or maybe look up his statistics to see he's actually a 21-year old in AAA with career splits of .284/.362/.414, while moving up the Pirates minor league system quite quickly.

So basically he's exactly like Borchard who was 23-24 before he even hit AAA full-time and put up numbers of .271/.351/.481 while striking out an obscenely amount of times.

Craig kinda beat me to it, didn't see his post laughing too much at your post.

Btw, **** that David Price guy, he's been the Rays top minor league pitcher for years, sounds like Arnie Munoz to me.

getonbckthr
10-07-2008, 11:18 PM
Sweet. Or you can have a rational thought or maybe look up his statistics to see he's actually a 21-year old in AAA with career splits of .284/.362/.414.

So basically he's exactly like Borchard who was 24 before he even hit AAA and put up numbers of .271/.351/.481 while striking out an obscenely amount of times.
That response based solely on the response of him being a top prospect for a few years, no based on the actual player himself.

FedEx227
10-07-2008, 11:21 PM
That response based solely on the response of him being a top prospect for a few years, no based on the actual player himself.

Yes, but your intent was the same. Comparing him to Joe Borchard means you most likely don't think very highly of McCutchen since he's been a top prospect for years. Or you don't even know who he is, never heard of him, and just thought it would be cute to compare him to Joe Borchard because he's a minor leaguer and hasn't done anything in the majors yet.

Otherwise you would've used any number of other players who have been top prospects and been successful ala "Sounds like Evan Longoria to me"

Then you could've looked up and seen that he was rated a top prospect when he was 19, 20 and now 21, and appears to be on a much better path to the majors than Joe Borchard ever was, considering Joe Borchard was only one year considered a top MLB prospect, even in his last few years at the White Sox top, the writing was on the wall as far as the national media was concerned:

2003 (Age 24) - 28th ranked Major League prospect
2003 (Age 24) - 1st ranked organizational prospect for Chicago White Sox

See a bit of a difference there?

Now McCutchen:

2007 (Age 20) - 13th ranked Major League prospect
2007 (Age 20)- 1st ranked organizational prospect for Pittsburgh Pirates
2008 (Age 21) - 14th ranked Major League prospect
2008 (Age 21) - 1st ranked organizational prospect for Pittsburgh Pirates

cws05champ
10-08-2008, 09:00 AM
Not that I am a fan of bottomfeeding...However, in looking over the roster of the Pirates, we match up pretty well with them.

There is one guy in particular that has caught my eye in their minor league system (I've been keeping an eye on him for a little while), and I am wondering what it would take to pry him loose. His name is

Andrew McCutchen, CF (http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Andrew%20McCutchen&pos=135&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=457705)

He has a good batting eye, really nice speed, and knows how to execute fundamentals. He seems to me, a prototypical leadoff hitter and he is still young. A one two tandem of McCutchen, and Orlando Hudson (obviously a FA signing) could prove a pretty devastating punch to the opposition.

Then beyond that, call up the mess that is the Mariners, and ask if they would be willing to take Swisher, Griffin, and Getz for Adrian Beltre.

1. McCutchen
2. Hudson
3. Quentin
4. Dye
5. Thome
6. Beltre
7. Pierzynski
8. Konerko
9. Ramirez

I would think, that this combo would be well ballanced with Speed, Power, and Defense...


He's the Pirates #1 prospect and is ready to make an impact in he next year...and he'll make nothing. Why again would they trade him?

esbrechtel
10-08-2008, 09:24 AM
I am sick of people saying we are going to trade Griffey....HIS OPTION HAS BEEN WAIVED AS PART OF THE TRADE! He is no longer a sox player he will be a FA...

nccwsfan
10-08-2008, 09:44 AM
C- AJ Pierzynski
C-
DH- Jim Thome
1B- Paul Konerko
2B-
SS- Alexei Ramirez
3B-
IF-
LF- Carlos Quentin
CF-
RF- Jermaine Dye
OF- Dewayne Wise
UT- Swisher
SP- Mark Buerhle
SP- John Danks
SP- Gavin Floyd
SP- Javy Vazquez
SP-
CL- Bobby Jenks
RP- Matt Thornton
RP- Octavio Dotel
RP- Scot Linebrink
RP- DJ Carrasco
RP-
RP-
------------------------------------
We have holes to fill for next season. Additional money is Contreras at I believe 10 million. I don't really want to acquire or sign a 5th starter. I want Clayton Richard to get that spot. At least to me he has proven he deserves it next season. For those with doubts just look at Danks and Floyd. As much as Javy crapped his pants how many 4th starters are as good as Javy?


C- AJ Pierzynski
C- Toby Hall
DH- Jim Thome
1B- Nick Swisher
2B- Chris Getz
SS- Alexei Ramirez
3B-
IF-
LF- Carlos Quentin
CF-
RF- Jermaine Dye
OF- Dewayne Wise/Brian Anderson
OF-
SP- Mark Buerhle
SP- John Danks
SP- Gavin Floyd
SP- Javier Vazquez
SP- Clayton Richard
CL- Bobby Jenks
RP- Matt Thornton
RP- Octavio Dotel
RP- Scott Linebrink
RP- DJ Carrasco
RP-
RP-

Aside from minor changes I agree with you getonbckthr. Vazquez isn't going anywhere- he was horrible when they needed him most in pressure situations but as a #4 starter he's above average. Clayton Richard did a good job during the back end of the year and I believe will get the opportunity to win that spot. Starting pitching is the least of my concerns for the 09' White Sox. The bullpen situation is much improved over 12 months ago- find a few guys to fill the two spots and let them battle it out.

I think they'll try to trade Konerko. Assuming this happens (and he waives his clause) Swisher would be moved over to 1B. In my opinion Swish gets a mulligan for 2008 but needs to show improvement in 09'. Anderson is only gone if they get good value for him, which time will tell. Hall is an affordable backup catcher and I expect him back as well.

2009 wish list- Speed & Situational Hitting at the top and bottom of the lineup.

AzureJazzMan
10-08-2008, 12:42 PM
He's the Pirates #1 prospect and is ready to make an impact in he next year...and he'll make nothing. Why again would they trade him?

This is why I asked the question, "What would it take to pry him away?" Everybody has a price.

Craig Grebeck
10-08-2008, 07:39 PM
This is why I asked the question, "What would it take to pry him away?" Everybody has a price.
Doesn't make it realistic.

TheOldRoman
10-08-2008, 09:44 PM
Everybody has a price.http://pyleoflist.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/milliondollarman.jpg
"MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

Beautox
10-09-2008, 04:23 AM
I would like to see KW continue to do what has made him and the organization successful, buy low on high ceiling young talent and overpay to get whom he wants.

Trade Dye to any of the following teams: Mets, Phillies, Reds, Dodgers, Rays, Yankees, Angels for prospects. Dye has one year guaranteed left on his contract and a mutual option, we can also trade him anywhere we would like.

Trade Javy to the brewers for Weeks and prospects, The brewers can fill his spot with Escobar or move Hardy to 2B. With Ben and CC leaving they need someone to take pressure off their pen and give them 200IP and be cost effective, thats what Javy is.

Trade most of the Farm away for McLouth and Snell from the pirates with recently aquired talent. McCutchen is ready to step into the bigs and McLouth and Snell will be outside of their window when the Buckos are ready to compete.

Hand over the hot corner to Fields in '07 he put up this line 244/308/480, his value is pretty low and he might only be keeping the hot corner warm for Beckham, if he proves him self healthy and puts up Glaus like numbers in '10 you can move him across the diamond and move PK to DH since thome will be coming off the books, if he sucks for '09 well he was only a place holder at the hot corner to begin with. He also never got a real chance to showcase his wheels at the ML level, and is still fairly young. If he completely fails we can give Getz a very long look or put uribe back out there.

Sign one of Lowe or Garcia

Pick up Toby's option

Reup with Uribe as a bench piece.

R Weeks 2B (26)
L McLouth CF (26)
R Quentin RF (26)
L Thome DH (38)
R Konerko 1B (32)
S Swisher LF (27)
R Ramirez SS (27)
L AJP C (31)
R Fields 3B (25)

Thats a team with alot of pop, alot of strike outs and above average speed. Above average defense in the OF, average defense in the infield, Weeks and Fields will make some spectacular plays, but occasionally boot the easy ones. Ramirez is the wild card he could be amazing, he could be average, and Paul has no range but decent hands.

Mark (29)
Lowe (35) / Garcia (32)
John (23)
Gavin (25)
Ian (26)

Hall (32)
Getz (25)
Anderson (26)
Uribe (29)

Jenks (27)
Linebrink (32)
Dotel (34)
Thornton (32)
Carrassco (31)
Russell (25)
Richard (25)

oeo
10-09-2008, 09:10 AM
Trade Javy to the brewers for Weeks and prospects, The brewers can fill his spot with Escobar or move Hardy to 2B. With Ben and CC leaving they need someone to take pressure off their pen and give them 200IP and be cost effective, thats what Javy is.

Ewww...Rickie Weeks is not good. I'd rather give the starting job to Getz.

Craig Grebeck
10-09-2008, 09:15 AM
Ewww...Rickie Weeks is not good. I'd rather give the starting job to Getz.
If we acquire Weeks, he should immediately be moved to CF. He's young and has talent, just needs to put it together.

gr8mexico
10-09-2008, 09:49 AM
I would like to see KW continue to do what has made him and the organization successful, buy low on high ceiling young talent and overpay to get whom he wants.
I wonder if the White Sox have scouts watching Rich Hill. What would it take to get him? I dont even think the Cubs have any room for him in the starting rotation.

FedEx227
10-09-2008, 10:00 AM
I wonder if the White Sox have scouts watching Rich Hill. What would it take to get him? I dont even think the Cubs have any room for him in the starting rotation.

And those scouts would've seen his impressive 2008 resume:

2008
A+: 1-2, 8.03 ERA, 1.86 WHIP
AAA: 2-4, 5.88 ERA, 1.92 WHIP

nccwsfan
10-09-2008, 02:13 PM
I wonder if the White Sox have scouts watching Rich Hill. What would it take to get him? I dont even think the Cubs have any room for him in the starting rotation.

Starting pitching should be low on the 2009 wish list, and we could probably find more effective relievers to fill the 2-3 open positions.

If Hill can effectively lay down bunts, run from 1st to 3rd/1st to Home consistently, steal some bases, play decent defense, and do it with a .350 OBP I say sign him. Otherwise pass.

Domeshot17
10-09-2008, 02:47 PM
Ill pass Weeks, the guy is a career hitter of under .250. I know he walks a fair amount, but we have too many of those guys already who can walk but can't hit and eventually someone has to drive those guys in.

I would rank our Needs in this order

1 Leadoff Man from 2b/ss/3b/CF
2 2 hitter from same group
3 Front Line Starting Pitcher
4 Bullpen
5 Fill out final holes in lineup

Starting Pitching Wins in the playoffs. We played 4 games and got 1 pitcher to give us what we needed. Gavin and Javy Laid eggs, and while Burls pitched ok, if he was truly our number 1 SP (or better A number 1 sp), he HAS TO, no doubt about it, hold on to that lead and not give it up. Throw on top of that Richard is much better suited to be a reliever and it just makes sense. Danks is the only guy on the staff who can be a true dominant cy young candidate ace in his career, but he still needs time to grow into that role. Richard had an ERA over 6 during the year, and was really only effective against lefty heavy lineups, meaning he would be a great loogy/MR.

btrain929
10-09-2008, 02:47 PM
Not that these people would play a HUGE role in a winning season in '09, but it seems like there are a decent amount of free agents that can be good bench players. Guys like Jerry Hairston Jr, Willie Bloomquist, and Ramon Vazquez are all FA's. They can play numerous positions, and shouldn't cost much. Uribe is a FA too, so if he leaves, we're going to need a utility infielder like the guys above, especially if Getz might be starting at 2B.

whitesox901
10-09-2008, 03:10 PM
C- AJ Pierzynski
C- Toby Hall
DH- Jim Thome
1B- Nick Swisher
2B- Orlando Hudson
SS- Alexei Ramirez
3B- Josh Fields
IF-Juan Uribe
LF- Carlos Quentin
CF- Dewayne Wise
RF- Jermaine Dye
OF- Brian Anderson
UT- Jaun Encarcion
SP- Mark Buerhle
SP- John Danks
SP- Gavin Floyd
SP- Javy Vazquez
SP- Clayon Richard/Oliver Perez (f/a)
CL- Bobby Jenks
RP- Matt Thornton
RP- Octavio Dotel
RP- Scot Linebrink
RP- DJ Carrasco
RP- Clayton Richard/Scott Schoenewise (no joke)
RP- Chris Perez (f/a)

getonbckthr
10-09-2008, 04:34 PM
Can someone explain to me the Orlando Hudson love? I just don't see it.

Domeshot17
10-09-2008, 05:17 PM
Can someone explain to me the Orlando Hudson love? I just don't see it.

I get it and I dont. He hits around 300 which is something we did not have but he has 40 career stolen bases. He doesn't really change the need for speed we have.

btrain929
10-09-2008, 05:23 PM
Can someone explain to me the Orlando Hudson love? I just don't see it.

A 2B that gives you gold-glove defense AND 10HR/60RBI/.280/.350? Not many players can give you that kind of effort on both sides of the ball. I think he's a younger, better Orlando Cabrera. Plus I've heard Hudson is a great clubhouse guy, and we know the story with Cabrera.

I'm not advocating him to be our leadoff guy, but our #2 hitter. If people are saying he's gonna solve our leadoff or speed problems, then I'd scratch my head. But just because he doesn't steal bases doesn't mean he's not fast. He's got good speed, maybe a tick above average.

I'd be surprised if we got him because so many teams will be after him. Unless we grossly overpay for him ala Linebrink.

Lip Man 1
10-09-2008, 05:37 PM
Kenny has been after him for the past few years. I guess that's all you need to know.

He's a guy who has the ability to drive the ball a little, play good defense, run a tad and maybe most importantly has some bat control..an ability to place the ball and move runners over.

Lip