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View Full Version : What if Hunter had signed with the Sox?


Frater Perdurabo
10-06-2008, 07:57 PM
This is not the "blame game." Torii Hunter was set to sign KW's offer, but the Angels swept in with a bigger offer and Hunter didn't give the Sox a chance to counter-offer. Still, it's worth asking: What if Hunter had signed with the Sox?

Think his .278 BA, 21 HR, 37 2B, 19 SB in CF would have helped this year?

They would not have dealt for Swisher - or Griffey! And they could have dealt Gio, DLS, Masset, Richar and Sweeney for bullpen help or a hitter to fill when Paulie got hurt (or Sweeney could have filled in at 1B).

Finally, Hunter already has six hits for the Angels against the Red Sox. Think six more hits would have helped the Sox against the Rays?

Thank goodness, though, that Fukudome chose to sign with the Cubs!

Discuss...

JB98
10-06-2008, 07:58 PM
Sure, of course Hunter would have been better than anything we had in CF. But it's water under the bridge now.

If we had signed Hunter, maybe TCQ doesn't get the opportunity he got.

veeter
10-06-2008, 08:01 PM
My thoughts are that he would have made a big difference. Would he have pushed the Sox over the top? I don't think so because of the pen woes. I think Hunter has one or two good years left, then he'll be Ken Griffey Jr.

Hendu
10-06-2008, 08:06 PM
Not much you can do. The Angels came out of nowhere at the last second to offer Hunter a deal way more lucrative than anyone was expecting. Of course in a perfect world it would have been great.

And wow, I can't imagine how bad it would suck to be stuck with 3 more years of Fukudome at $38 million.

Frater Perdurabo
10-06-2008, 08:06 PM
Of course it's water under the bridge. So is the whole 2008 Sox season. It's still interesting to talk about.

Think about this - do you think that those five prospects (Massett, Richar, DLS, Sweeney and Gio) could have been used to acquire Aubrey Huff from the Orioles? Think Huff could have helped out at first base when Paulie went down, and then at third base when Crede went down?

TDog
10-06-2008, 08:11 PM
If the Sox signed Hunter, they might not have traded for Swisher. Or they might not have signed Ramirez. You never know. What if Charles Manson had become a Monkee or Fidel Castro had made his tryout with the Washington Senators? OK, the last two are urban legends of auditions that never actually took place, but the what-if game is fruitless in any case.

You honestly don't know how the White Sox would have been assembled their team if they had built it around Torii Hunter.

turners56
10-06-2008, 08:16 PM
That would mean no Swisher...

Which isn't exactly a bad thing...

Frater Perdurabo
10-06-2008, 08:17 PM
Think Hunter and Huff would have helped against the Rays?

munchman33
10-06-2008, 08:19 PM
If we sign Hunter, it's likely we don't trade for Swisher. TCQ would have still been battling Jerry Owens for the LF spot. It also means that we probably trade those guys in the Swisher deal for another pitcher or a second basemen. So maybe Alexei spends a bigger portion of the year in AAA. Or maybe Gavin waits for Contreras to die to get into the rotation. Or perhaps we don't sign Dotel in favor of another reliever.

Regardless, while individuals might have suffered as a whole we'd have been significantly better off. We had close to zero production from CF this year. If that trade doesn't get made, we might still be playing baseball.

turners56
10-06-2008, 08:19 PM
Think Hunter and Huff would have helped against the Rays?

Aubrey Huff plays bad defense like Griffey, but he's a WAY better hitter. He really had himself a career year in Baltimore.

oeo
10-06-2008, 08:27 PM
It also means that we probably trade those guys in the Swisher deal for another pitcher or a second basemen.

Doubt it. They probably wouldn't have been traded at all. We might have those tools to trade at the deadline, but they were dealt because we still need to round out our outfield. After Hunter, Rowand, and Fukudome failed, a trade had to be made.

I think Kenny was very confident in his pitching, otherwise Garland would have never been dealt. And hey, he was right...too bad Contreras got hurt.

Frater Perdurabo
10-06-2008, 08:46 PM
Doubt it. They probably wouldn't have been traded at all. We might have those tools to trade at the deadline, but they were dealt because we still need to round out our outfield. After Hunter, Rowand, and Fukudome failed, a trade had to be made.

I'm not blaming KW for not landing Hunter. We can only blame the Angels. Needless to say I'm not rooting for them.

But put Hunter in CF and KW still makes the Quentin deal. Now those five prospects are available to trade for a bat like Huff and a reliever like Chad Bradford at the deadline.

Put Hunter, Huff and Bradford on this team and they almost certainly win tonight.

KyWhiSoxFan
10-06-2008, 08:52 PM
I don't see how Hunter would have changed the team much. He is not a high on-base percentage guy, so he does not help there. He is overpaid for his production, as far as I'm concerned, and the last thing the Sox need right now was a 5-year, $60-million contract that handcuffed them even more from making some off-season moves.

DSpivack
10-06-2008, 08:57 PM
Playing what if games leads to nothing but fiction. Interesting fiction perhaps (http://www.amazon.com/Years-Rice-Salt-Stanley-Robinson/dp/0553109200), but still fiction.

munchman33
10-06-2008, 08:59 PM
Doubt it. They probably wouldn't have been traded at all. We might have those tools to trade at the deadline, but they were dealt because we still need to round out our outfield. After Hunter, Rowand, and Fukudome failed, a trade had to be made.

I think Kenny was very confident in his pitching, otherwise Garland would have never been dealt. And hey, he was right...too bad Contreras got hurt.

Yeah, but Contreras' absence is completely Kenny's fault. He's 9 million years old. Of course he was going to get hurt. There were no in house options to deal with his absence (or anyone's for that matter). But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say that was more a function of not having pieces to deal for another pitcher.

Craig Grebeck
10-06-2008, 09:14 PM
Of course it's water under the bridge. So is the whole 2008 Sox season. It's still interesting to talk about.

Think about this - do you think that those five prospects (Massett, Richar, DLS, Sweeney and Gio) could have been used to acquire Aubrey Huff from the Orioles? Think Huff could have helped out at first base when Paulie went down, and then at third base when Crede went down?
God no. One of them would probably get it done. He cleared waivers in August!

Martinigirl
10-06-2008, 09:38 PM
I could be totally wrong here but isn't one of the reasons we got Carlos was because we didn't get Hunter? If that is the case I would rather TCQ than TH. I have no regrets about Torii or for that fact, Fukudome.

DumpJerry
10-06-2008, 09:46 PM
Think his .278 BA, 21 HR, 37 2B, 19 SB in CF would have helped this year?

If the Sox signed Hunter, they might not have traded for Swisher. Or they might not have signed Ramirez.

If we sign Hunter, it's likely we don't trade for Swisher. TCQ would have still been battling Jerry Owens for the LF spot.
First of all, you cannot take Hunter's numbers and ask if they would have made a difference here. His numbers after playing 81 games in Home Run Happy Comiskey would have been very different. We really missed not having him in CF-a legit CFer who would have been more helpful at the Plate than Griffey, Anderson, Swisher and Owens turned out to be.

Second. We were going to sign Ramirez no matter what. Contreras played with him in Cuba and told KW to sign him no matter what.

Finally, TCQ did not battle Owens for LF because Owens was hurt in the Spring. If Owens had been healthy, we would not have known what a diamond in the rough Kenny landed from the Diamonbacks.

Not signing Hunter did hurt us. We still need a CFer.

Fukodome was never a realistic probability. He did not want to play for someone who already had a Japanese player play for them and we did not need a RFer. The word on him coming out of Japan was that you really did not want to play him in Center.

Irishsox1
10-06-2008, 09:50 PM
Torii would have helped, but the biggest problems with the team was Vazquez. The offense was hot and cold but as long as Vazquez is on the team, the Sox will have problems because he stinks.

WagMan
10-06-2008, 09:59 PM
I think the true question that needs to be asked here, ladies and gentlemen, is "what if the Sox had resigned Rowand?"

Dick Allen
10-06-2008, 10:38 PM
Meanwhile, Torii's Angels just got eliminated.

munchman33
10-07-2008, 03:13 AM
Finally, TCQ did not battle Owens for LF because Owens was hurt in the Spring. If Owens had been healthy, we would not have known what a diamond in the rough Kenny landed from the Diamonbacks.



And people think I hate Kenny Wiliams....

Kenny knew what he got in Quentin. If I knew, of course Kenny knew. It was just a matter of when he was healthy. If he wasn't healthy enough to start the season, Jerry Owens WAS NOT going to keep him in AAA.

Craig Grebeck
10-07-2008, 07:38 AM
And people think I hate Kenny Wiliams....

Kenny knew what he got in Quentin. If I knew, of course Kenny knew. It was just a matter of when he was healthy. If he wasn't healthy enough to start the season, Jerry Owens WAS NOT going to keep him in AAA.
Ugh, not this **** again. If you can show me one article that supports your claim, I'll believe you. Because there's probably 10-15 from spring training that contradict it.

oeo
10-07-2008, 08:04 AM
Yeah, but Contreras' absence is completely Kenny's fault. He's 9 million years old. Of course he was going to get hurt. There were no in house options to deal with his absence (or anyone's for that matter). But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say that was more a function of not having pieces to deal for another pitcher.

What do you mean 'of course he was going to get hurt?' You're full of ****. The guy only had one other DL stint in his career. And while he may be old, he takes good care of himself.

I could be totally wrong here but isn't one of the reasons we got Carlos was because we didn't get Hunter? If that is the case I would rather TCQ than TH. I have no regrets about Torii or for that fact, Fukudome.

According to the D'Backs GM, Kenny was after Quentin for a long time. I doubt signing Torii Hunter would have changed that.

Someone else mentioned Alexei maybe not being here, and that's not true either. Kenny was after Quentin for awhile, and Alexei from the start (this is according to Alexei himself). The only guy that would not be here is Nick Swisher.

munchman33
10-07-2008, 11:54 AM
What do you mean 'of course he was going to get hurt?' You're full of ****. The guy only had one other DL stint in his career. And while he may be old, he takes good care of himself.


And Jim Thome didn't spend a lot of time on the DL either before he got here.

Old players get hurt more. That's simply the way it is. And Kenny should have either planned for that, or for Contreras to **** all over himself. Because both were realistic possibilities. He didn't. If he had, things would have been very different.

soxinem1
10-07-2008, 12:09 PM
Sure, of course Hunter would have been better than anything we had in CF. But it's water under the bridge now.

If we had signed Hunter, maybe TCQ doesn't get the opportunity he got.

Very true. Many thought he was ticketed for AAA by the end of ST.

And besides, $15 million for 78 RBI's? I'm glad he signed with LAAAAAAAA. They are going home too.

Stoky44
10-07-2008, 12:55 PM
Hunter would have helped the sox. And he would be worth 15Mil for this last year and next year, but not for the next 5 years. People are complaining about PK's contract being too big and a hinderance. It would have been the same or worse with Hunter in 2 years.

NLaloosh
10-07-2008, 01:17 PM
I'm quite happy that they didn't sign Hunter. This year would have been no better and maybe worse. And, that contract is an albatross. Kenny will do better finding some young players like he has the past couple of seasons.

I'm more convinced than ever that giving these huge long term contracts out to players that are in their 30's is just insane.

Nellie_Fox
10-07-2008, 01:24 PM
And Jim Thome didn't spend a lot of time on the DL either before he got here.Thome's games played in Chicago have been very comparable to what he's done everywhere he's been. He spent the most DL time when he was with Philadelphia, only appearing in 59 games in 2005. That's why so many of us were very concerned when the Sox picked him up after that year.

Sox4ever77
10-07-2008, 01:30 PM
I'm quite happy that they didn't sign Hunter. This year would have been no better and maybe worse. And, that contract is an albatross. Kenny will do better finding some young players like he has the past couple of seasons.

I'm more convinced than ever that giving these huge long term contracts out to players that are in their 30's is just insane.

So what was KW suppose to do after winning the WS? Not sign PK or Jose? Both were in or close to their 30's.

jabrch
10-07-2008, 01:31 PM
If Hunter signed, what would have been the corresponding move to free up that salary? Not sure how we'd have done...

That being said, I was opposed to that contract for Hunter when it was discussed. But this team made the post season as it was configured. I can't help but think that Hunter in lieu of what we had wouldn't have made us much better.

Either way...Let's see what 2009 brings!

SpiderJames
10-07-2008, 01:51 PM
Im still upset Rowand didnt take our offer.

asindc
10-07-2008, 02:11 PM
If Hunter signed, what would have been the corresponding move to free up that salary? Not sure how we'd have done...

That being said, I was opposed to that contract for Hunter when it was discussed. But this team made the post season as it was configured. I can't help but think that Hunter in lieu of what we had wouldn't have made us much better.

Either way...Let's see what 2009 brings!

That's the crucial thing about Hunter... the ridiculous contract LAAAAA signed him to. Yes, he would have made us better this year (if for no other reason he would have replaced Swisher's down year and played much better defense), but there is no defending that contract. LAAAAA will come to regret it starting in 2010.

Zisk77
10-07-2008, 02:24 PM
Of course it's water under the bridge. So is the whole 2008 Sox season. It's still interesting to talk about.

Think about this - do you think that those five prospects (Massett, Richar, DLS, Sweeney and Gio) could have been used to acquire Aubrey Huff from the Orioles? Think Huff could have helped out at first base when Paulie went down, and then at third base when Crede went down?

we wouldn't need any of those prospects to get Huff. He and Mora both cleared waivers because no one wanted them or their immense contracts. Huff finally had a decent year this year but was Konerko injured hand awful for the past few years.

chisox77
10-07-2008, 02:32 PM
I wanted the White Sox to sign Hunter. But that, as well as the 2008 season, is history now.

The Sox were saved by the Cubs in the Fukudome signing.

We have two young stars in Quentin and Ramirez.

Overall, a nice season, full of great excitement, many twists and turns, and a division title. The 2009 season, with the help of some trades and signings, should be something to look forward to . . .


:cool:

jabrch
10-07-2008, 02:36 PM
I think the true question that needs to be asked here, ladies and gentlemen, is "what if the Sox had resigned Rowand?"

We'd have won the 2008 World Series already - and be 63 - 6 (still losing the games at the Hump Dome) in the 2009 season. Of course...