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RedPinStripes
05-17-2002, 09:51 PM
Great Job Jerry! No reason to take out Osuna, and no reason to take out Marte, but he does it anyway because lefty\righty match ups matter late in the game to JM no matter how hot the pitcher is.

I thought he was getting smart after yesterday.

:jerry

I am an idiot!

Chisox_cali
05-17-2002, 09:54 PM
Here's my impersonation of the Sox offence tonight:

http://tomsquotes.amhosting.net/sitcom/seinfeld/jerry/sleeping.jpg

:angry: :angry:

RedPinStripes
05-17-2002, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by Chisox_cali
Here's my impersonation of the Sox offence tonight:

http://tomsquotes.amhosting.net/sitcom/seinfeld/jerry/sleeping.jpg

:angry: :angry:

This team just don't have the spark to it they had in 2000 or even early this season.

chisoxt
05-17-2002, 10:30 PM
Sorry, Red, but I disagree. Your post should have read...."See how far crappy defense and pitchers who can't get past the fifth inning gets us".....You win an lose with 25 guys, not 18. Howry and Foulk are supposed to be two of our better relief pitchers. And I guess at this point in his career, Ray will always take his hitting problems with him out onto the field. That inning changed the whole momemtum of the game. While the defense didn't help
Jon, I think that the kid right now, is a mop-up pitcher at best.

RedPinStripes
05-17-2002, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by chisoxt
Sorry, Red, but I disagree. Your post should have read...."See how far crappy defense and pitchers who can't get past the fifth inning gets us".....You win an lose with 25 guys, not 18. Howry and Foulk are supposed to be two of our better relief pitchers. And I guess at this point in his career, Ray will always take his hitting problems with him out onto the field. That inning changed the whole momemtum of the game. While the defense didn't help
Jon, I think that the kid right now, is a mop-up pitcher at best.

Yeah. you need offense to win, but as for the manager, "if it's not broke don't fix it!"This is my main problem with JM. Was there any reason to use 4 pitchers out of the pen when Osuna and Marte did a great job? Hell no. JM does this all the time. Not every pitcher is going to be unstopable every night. Manuel over manages. You can't deny that. And as for Ray, I've never been a big fan of his. I think he should be traded before we get nothing for him.

chisoxt
05-17-2002, 10:52 PM
I wholeheartedly agree with you on that point. I call it "the Peter Principal of changing pitchers". You always see it happen...especially with a team like our which has a marginal bullpen. Simply put, if you bring in enough pitchers out of the pen, you will eventually land on one that will blow up.

RedPinStripes
05-17-2002, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by chisoxt
I wholeheartedly agree with you on that point. I call it "the Peter Principal of changing pitchers". You always see it happen...especially with a team like our which has a marginal bullpen. Simply put, if you bring in enough pitchers out of the pen, you will eventually land on one that will blow up.

Very true.

I was confident they might be able to come back when it was 5-4 eventhough they shouldn't have been in that situation. But as soon as i saw Manuel thinking, I knew at least one of those pitchers were gonna screw up.

Thursday nights game was a perfect game for Manuel to manage. they had a 4 run lead, gave up no runs, Wright kept a low pitch count, and all he had to do was sit back and let it happen. Too bad we don't have Schilling and Johnson too. lol

BTW! Jerry PH for choice tonight! Will he ever do it when it really means something? Like in a 1 or 2 run game with 2 runners on?

:jerry
I have no balls

Garrison
05-17-2002, 11:44 PM
Why does Jerry continue to use up our bullpen at four relievers a night and then complain about how overworked they are? Osuna did a fine job. So he gets pulled for Marte. Who does a fine job. So he sits down for Howry and Foulke who give up 3ER and throw the game away! The other two kept it at 5-4 and were going to give the offense a comeback chance and maybe Foulke a save opportunity. Instead the other two blow up and the 'O' rolls over and dies. Jon needs to go to the pen. He's a talented young guy but he doesn't have what it takes to start. His inconsistencies just can't be overlooked. The past two seasons have been a rollercoaster ride with him. Never more than a couple of good starts before another poor outing. Put him in the pen and trade for a starter. Ray botched a routine grounder and that cost us the game. Take away those two runs and maybe we have a chance or at least more confidence that we can come back. I am so disappointed at our unwillingness to fight back from being down in late innings. If it gets past the 7th down more than one or two, the guys quit. The Mariners last year had a big number of come-from-behind victorys and they had the best record in baseball. That one time they were down double digits and came back. We haven't had a come from behind win or even a close win at that. Oh boy I hope we can get something out of tomorrows game. The #5 slot has been an adventure thus far.....
:gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

WinningUgly!
05-17-2002, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
Great Job Jerry! No reason to take out Osuna, and no reason to take out Marte, but he does it anyway because lefty\righty match ups matter late in the game to JM no matter how hot the pitcher is.


I agree that both Osuna & Marte could/should have stayed in the game, but the thing that Manuel did that pissed me off the most tonight was leave Garland in after he walked in a run. You walk in a run...you're done! :angry:

RedPinStripes
05-18-2002, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!


I agree that both Osuna & Marte could/should have stayed in the game, but the thing that Manuel did that pissed me off the most tonight was leave Garland in after he walked in a run. You walk in a run...you're done! :angry:

It's too bad we don't have someone solid to replace Jon. I think he missed a lot of AAA time he needed. He's only 22. it wouldn't hurt to send him down till july if we had someone to replace him.

WinningUgly!
05-18-2002, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


It's too bad we don't have someone solid to replace Jon. I think he missed a lot of AAA time he needed. He's only 22. it wouldn't hurt to send him down till july if we had someone to replace him.

Kieshnick is on his way! :D:

RedPinStripes
05-18-2002, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!


Kieshnick is on his way! :D:

:bundy

baggio202
05-18-2002, 12:36 AM
lets face facts..we probably have the worst bullpen in baseball...our starting pitching is marginal at best.....management seems to think you dont need pitching to win...no matter how bad we pitch we can just slug our way to a title...ummmm..yeah , right...just think how bad our pitching will in '04 under two more years of williams reign...jim parque might be our ace by then :D:

as for losing to anaheim..its simple...go position by position...and look at the starting pitching and bullpens...its very simple...they are a better team than we are....two years ago if someone would have told me that id have laughed so hard id be puking...but they passed us up...good job kenny

so what can manuel do???...no matter what he does its gonna blow up in his face cause this bullpen sux...atleast he pinch hit for clayton tonight..thats a plus...

i love the style of managing where you play percentages and bring in certain pitchers to face certain batters..lefty-lefty match ups ect...but for that to work you need pitchers that can actually do their job...so i agree with the guys on this thread..jerry has to change his philosophy..if a guy is getting people out..let him go 3 innings or whatever and then give him 2 days off and hope in the next game he an guess which guy will be on that night...its a formula for a losing bullpen but thats exactly what we got...

its very depressing to knowm that the twins have 7 guys on the DL 2 of their top 3 pitchers incleding..and not only can we not make up any ground but actually lost ground this past week...that is sad...