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gr8mexico
10-05-2008, 02:08 AM
The Sox need to trade Javier Vazquez, Jermaine Dye & Paul Konerko
Then Let Orlando Cabrera and Joe Crede go. The SOX save around 45 MIL
Then trade for J.J Hardy and Juan Pierre The only Leadoff hitter available
Sign C.C Sabathia , Juan Cruz , Willie Bloomquist.
The Sox become a very young team
1. Juan Pierre RF
2. Alexei Ramirez 2B
3. Carlos Quentin LF
4. Jim Thome DH
5. J.J Hardy SS
6. Nick Swisher 1B
7. A.J Catcher
8. Brian Anderson CF
9. Juan Uribe 3B
Bench Willie Bloomquist, Jerry Owens, Dewayne Wise, Toby Hall

SP C.C Sabathia
SP Mark Buehrle
SP Gavin Floyd
SP John Danks
SP Jose Contreras

BP Aaron Poreda
BP DJ Carrasco
BP Juan Cruz
BP Matt Thornton
BP Octavio Dotel
BP Scott Linebrink
CL Bobby Jenks

Optipessimism
10-05-2008, 02:22 AM
Juan Pierre = a better hitting Jerry Owens with an enormous contract

CC Sabathia = 5 years or more, each at $18 million+, probably $20 million+

I like the idea of adding Juan Cruz though, I've liked him for a long time. He's a durable reliever with good stuff who can pitch in multiple roles. The only problem is he'll cost a draft pick and probably $6 million plus per year.

soltrain21
10-05-2008, 02:41 AM
Jose will not pitch next year.

btrain929
10-05-2008, 03:05 AM
The Sox need to trade Javier Vazquez, Jermaine Dye & Paul Konerko
Then Let Orlando Cabrera and Joe Crede go. The SOX save around 45 MIL
Then trade for J.J Hardy and Juan Pierre The only Leadoff hitter available
Sign C.C Sabathia , Juan Cruz , Willie Bloomquist.
The Sox become a very young team
1. Juan Pierre RF
2. Alexei Ramirez 2B
3. Carlos Quentin LF
4. Jim Thome DH
5. J.J Hardy SS
6. Nick Swisher 1B
7. A.J Catcher
8. Brian Anderson CF
9. Juan Uribe 3B
Bench Willie Bloomquist, Jerry Owens, Dewayne Wise, Toby Hall

SP C.C Sabathia
SP Mark Buehrle
SP Gavin Floyd
SP John Danks
SP Jose Contreras

BP Aaron Poreda
BP DJ Carrasco
BP Juan Cruz
BP Matt Thornton
BP Octavio Dotel
BP Scott Linebrink
CL Bobby Jenks

If you trade Javy then we need to somehow acquire 2 SP's since Contreras is out. And after all that deal making, you still have Uribe as our 3B and Anderson as our CF. No thanks.

chisoxfanatic
10-05-2008, 03:11 AM
Konerko's pretty much untradeable. First off, he's a 10/5 guy. Secondly, he's got a very fat contract. Konerko's going nowhere.

Sox4ever77
10-05-2008, 03:22 AM
Juan Pierre has among, the weakest arms in baseball. There is no way he would play RF. I guess TCQ could move to RF.

Unless the Dodgers are willing to pay for most of Pierre's contract, the Sox shouldn't even think about getting him.

cbrownson13
10-05-2008, 03:44 AM
The Sox need to trade Javier Vazquez, Jermaine Dye & Paul Konerko
Then Let Orlando Cabrera and Joe Crede go. The SOX save around 45 MIL
Then trade for J.J Hardy and Juan Pierre The only Leadoff hitter available
Sign C.C Sabathia , Juan Cruz , Willie Bloomquist.
The Sox become a very young team
1. Juan Pierre RF
2. Alexei Ramirez 2B
3. Carlos Quentin LF
4. Jim Thome DH
5. J.J Hardy SS
6. Nick Swisher 1B
7. A.J Catcher
8. Brian Anderson CF
9. Juan Uribe 3B
Bench Willie Bloomquist, Jerry Owens, Dewayne Wise, Toby Hall

SP C.C Sabathia
SP Mark Buehrle
SP Gavin Floyd
SP John Danks
SP Jose Contreras

BP Aaron Poreda
BP DJ Carrasco
BP Juan Cruz
BP Matt Thornton
BP Octavio Dotel
BP Scott Linebrink
CL Bobby Jenks


What are you getting for Javy and Paulie?

And that team listed has an average age of 29.7. I believe this year they are 30.4. Doesn't really make a big difference.

Tragg
10-05-2008, 09:46 AM
Juan Pierre-


Uribe at 3rd again


Ouch

munchman33
10-05-2008, 10:15 AM
Juan Pierre is exactly what this team needs. Speed with the ability to handle the bat. His OBP isn't great, but it isn't bad either. He doesn't GIDP alot, and puts the ball in play almost every time up to the plate. Over 650+ at bats, he's a lock for 200 hits.

Unfortunately, I wouldn't touch his contract with a ten foot poll. Now, if the Dodgers would eat half of it....

His "bad" defense is vastly overstated. He has good range and a weak arm.

A. Cavatica
10-05-2008, 10:22 AM
Sign C.C Sabathia , Juan Cruz , Willie Bloomquist.
Bench Willie Bloomquist, Jerry Owens, Dewayne Wise, Toby Hall


There's the solution to our problems! Sign Willie Bloomquist!

That is a terrible bench, just horrible. Who's the backup infielder? Which of the outfielders can hit at all?

Rockabilly
10-05-2008, 10:26 AM
I don't want any part of Juan Pierre..

I also want to see Clayton Richard make the team next year...

Crede24Thome25
10-05-2008, 10:29 AM
Aramis Ramirez may be available to fill our 3b problem Lol:D:

Brian26
10-05-2008, 10:49 AM
Konerko's pretty much untradeable. First off, he's a 10/5 guy. Secondly, he's got a very fat contract. Konerko's going nowhere.

We got two more years of PK. He'll earn his money here.

gr8mexico
10-05-2008, 11:29 AM
There's the solution to our problems! Sign Willie Bloomquist!

That is a terrible bench, just horrible. Who's the backup infielder? Which of the outfielders can hit at all?
Willie Bloomquist is the super sup that can play every single position on the field. This year he hit .279AVG .377OBP. That's pretty solid for a bench guy.

Also anyone that says that Jerry Owens = Juan Pierre is crazy, Owens cant even get out of AAA while Juan Pierre hit .283 and stole 40 bases in the majors. The Sox wont be able to sign a leadoff hitter and no one in there right mind will just give a great one away. Pierre is owed 28.5 mil for the next 3 years and I'm sure the Dodgers can cover some of that money.

Paul Konerko- Konerko does not have a huge contract he is owed 24mil for the next 2 years. Also just because he is a 10/5 guy doesn't mean he cant get traded. He just needs to accept a trade to the team and I'm sure that if he get send to a good team he will leave.

munchman33
10-05-2008, 11:41 AM
Konerko's pretty much untradeable. First off, he's a 10/5 guy. Secondly, he's got a very fat contract. Konerko's going nowhere.

The 10/5 thing is what makes him untradable. That and he wants to be here.

If Konerko was a free agent and I needed a 1B on my team, 2 years at $12 million per would be a fairly decent gamble on a guy who both has tremendous upside and looks to be turning it around.

WhiteSox5187
10-05-2008, 02:09 PM
Just say no to Pierre.

JermaineDye05
10-05-2008, 02:14 PM
If it doesn't cost Danks or a Floyd, I say you go hard after Adrian Beltre. He's not so much of a downgrade defensively from Crede, and he's better than Uribe at 3rd IMO. Plus he can drive in some big runs for you. If the asking price is going to inevitably be Danks or Floyd, then forget about it.

munchman33
10-05-2008, 02:15 PM
Just say no to Pierre.

The contract? I see no reason, after the play we got out of that position this year, why Pierre wouldn't be an upgrade of monumental proportions next year.

BadBobbyJenks
10-05-2008, 02:17 PM
Juan Pierre-


Uribe at 3rd again


Ouch

But JJ Hardy! Hitting 5th in an AL lineup no less.

munchman33
10-05-2008, 02:19 PM
But JJ Hardy! Hitting 5th in an AL lineup no less.

Hardy isn't the answer, but he's also not a bad player. Just not what we need.

chaerulez
10-05-2008, 02:19 PM
The contract? I see no reason, after the play we got out of that position this year, why Pierre wouldn't be an upgrade of monumental proportions next year.

Because he has a problem getting on base. Speed is nothing if you aren't on base to use it. This is why Rickey Henderson had twice as long of a career than Vince Coleman.

munchman33
10-05-2008, 02:22 PM
Because he has a problem getting on base. Speed is nothing if you aren't on base to use it. This is why Rickey Henderson had twice as long of a career than Vince Coleman.

His career OBP is almost .350. The last three years, it's been around .330. Not great, but certainly decent considering he also ALWAYS puts the ball in play in a good spot and gives himself up readily.

He doesn't have a "problem" getting on base. That's a gross exageration.

kitekrazy
10-05-2008, 09:33 PM
Juan Pierre = a better hitting Jerry Owens with an enormous contract

CC Sabathia = 5 years or more, each at $18 million+, probably $20 million+



JP is a dumb ball player. We have enough of those.

If I were CC, I'd stay in the NL. He must be thinking, "Wow this is easy".

Parrothead
10-05-2008, 09:59 PM
Juan Uribe for Chone Figgins.

BadBobbyJenks
10-05-2008, 10:04 PM
Hardy isn't the answer, but he's also not a bad player. Just not what we need.

He is mediocre so why bother was my point.

Craig Grebeck
10-05-2008, 10:25 PM
He is mediocre so why bother was my point.
He's one of the better defensive SS in the game and put up a line of .283/.343/.478.

doublem23
10-05-2008, 10:35 PM
He's one of the better defensive SS in the game and put up a line of .283/.343/.478.

.. In the National League.

There will be three holes the 2009 Sox lineup that need to be filled: 2B, 3B, CF. Any other "speculation" will ultimately be just a waste of time.

WhiteSox5187
10-05-2008, 10:42 PM
The contract? I see no reason, after the play we got out of that position this year, why Pierre wouldn't be an upgrade of monumental proportions next year.
He is extraordinarily mediocre with a miserable arm, if we want to go with Pierre we might as well plug Owens into the one slot. He'll do just as well.

DumpJerry
10-05-2008, 10:56 PM
.. In the National League.

There will be three holes the 2009 Sox lineup that need to be filled: 2B, 3B, CF. Any other "speculation" will ultimately be just a waste of time.
Agreed.

3B will hopefully filled by Chone Figgins. I have a feeling 2B will be Chris Getz. Not sure yet who CF will be. Alexei will be SS, so he is not available for CF (a position he covered well this year, by the way).

Konerko is never leaving the White Sox. He is currently building a home in Bridgeport and Reinsdorf is very fond of him. Paulie will be with the organization for a long, long time.

I suspect the rotation next year will look like (in no particular order):
Burls
Floyd
Denks
Richard
Pitcher X.

I'm thinking that Contreras will not get medical clearance to play by Opening Day. Javy might find himself as the long guy in the Bullpen if he is still with us.

If anyone thinks CC will be in a Sox Uni next year, think again. He wants "to bat" meaning National League. He wants to be close to home in California. Which means Dodgers. He turned down in Spring Training 20 Million a year from the then-AL Central champs. This tells me that the Yankees will offer him at least 15% more than the top offer he gets from anyone else. The Yanks need starting pitching like a fish needs water. The Yankees' signing of CC will be like the Angels' signing of Torii, out of nowhere with an outrageous amount of money.

munchman33
10-05-2008, 11:03 PM
He is extraordinarily mediocre with a miserable arm, if we want to go with Pierre we might as well plug Owens into the one slot. He'll do just as well.

He gets on base an ABOVE average amount. He puts the ball in play all the time. He's very fast and covers an ABOVE average amount of ground.

Why does our fanbase automatically equate lack of power and poor arm as a bad player, when said player does everything else well? :dunno:

BadBobbyJenks
10-05-2008, 11:05 PM
I suspect the rotation next year will look like (in no particular order):
Burls
Floyd
Denks
Richard
Pitcher X.

Javy might find himself as the long guy in the Bullpen if he is still with us.



Please name one 5th starter that you would rather have than Javy. Throw in some 4th starters while you are at it. I understand how people don't want this guy in a meaningful playoff game, but long guy in the pen, you got to be kidding.

Craig Grebeck
10-05-2008, 11:07 PM
He gets on base an ABOVE average amount. He puts the ball in play all the time. He's very fast and covers an ABOVE average amount of ground.

Why does our fanbase automatically equate lack of power and poor arm as a bad player, when said player does everything else well? :dunno:
Haha. He doesn't get on base well at all. He posted those numbers in the worst division in baseball.

DumpJerry
10-05-2008, 11:11 PM
Please name one 5th starter that you would rather have than Javy. Throw in some 4th starters while you are at it. I understand how people don't want this guy in a meaningful playoff game, but long guy in the pen, you got to be kidding.
What do you suggest we do with Javy? Does he have any meaningful trade value? Doubtful. Have him starting every 5th day? Not the best way to defend a division crown. As the long guy, he will get enough work to get his confidence back. Then he can be evaluated for a starting position or trade.

Craig Grebeck
10-05-2008, 11:15 PM
What do you suggest we do with Javy? Does he have any meaningful trade value? Doubtful. Have him starting every 5th day? Not the best way to defend a division crown. As the long guy, he will get enough work to get his confidence back. Then he can be evaluated for a starting position or trade.
Why would it be a bad idea to start him 5th? He'd be a brilliant 5th starter. The average bottom guy in a rotation has a HUGE earned run average.

DumpJerry
10-05-2008, 11:18 PM
Why would it be a bad idea to start him 5th? He'd be a brilliant 5th starter. The average bottom guy in a rotation has a HUGE earned run average.
Do you want to win the AL Central again next year? Do you think the Twins will go away? Do you think the Indians won't continue the tear they have been on since the All Star Break which saw them have, IIRC, the third best record in the AL?

We will need five reliable horses in the rotation next year to get back to the post-season.

Craig Grebeck
10-05-2008, 11:19 PM
Do you want to win the AL Central again next year? Do you think the Twins will go away? Do you think the Indians won't continue the tear they have been on since the All Star Break which saw them have, IIRC, the third best record in the AL?

We will need five reliable horses in the rotation next year to get back to the post-season.
How is he not reliable? Who will we get on the market who is more reliable to throw 200 IP with a decent or better ERA? Anybody?

DumpJerry
10-05-2008, 11:21 PM
How is he not reliable? Who will we get on the market who is more reliable to throw 200 IP with a decent or better ERA? Anybody?
His confidence is shot to Hell. His performance in September was horse****.

Craig Grebeck
10-05-2008, 11:23 PM
His confidence is shot to Hell. His performance in September was horse****.
Who are we going to find? Are you his psychologist? Is there anyone in the organization who can step in and fill the role better than him?

No, no, and no. I'd rather keep him and bank on him putting up a pretty decent line than go after a below average group of FA.

Noneck
10-05-2008, 11:27 PM
What do you suggest we do with Javy? Does he have any meaningful trade value? Doubtful. Have him starting every 5th day? Not the best way to defend a division crown. As the long guy, he will get enough work to get his confidence back. Then he can be evaluated for a starting position or trade.

The Sox don't pay someone that type of money to be a middle reliefer, He will be traded or he will start.

BadBobbyJenks
10-05-2008, 11:27 PM
What do you suggest we do with Javy? Does he have any meaningful trade value? Doubtful. Have him starting every 5th day? Not the best way to defend a division crown. As the long guy, he will get enough work to get his confidence back. Then he can be evaluated for a starting position or trade.

I suggest we throw him out every 5th day because as a 5th starter he would be amazing. Like I said in my other post name one 5th starter you would rather have.

Billy Ashley
10-05-2008, 11:27 PM
This is not xbox. The White Sox are not going to throw out 5 cy young candidates next season. Javy Vasquez is a very good pitcher who had a sub par year. His 200 innings at an ERA+ of 98 makes him a very solid contributer this season despite his under achievement. I mean hell, he's a season away from being one of the 15 best pitchers in the league... and you think he's a long man?

This is out of hand. I mean hell, with how fortunate the White Sox rotation was this season in regards to healthy you think it's a good idea to ship off 200 innings just because he was league average? What else do you want?!?!

If he were a FA get a 4 year 60 million dollar deal this off-season.

DumpJerry
10-05-2008, 11:28 PM
Who are we going to find? Are you his psychologist? Is there anyone in the organization who can step in and fill the role better than him?

No, no, and no. I'd rather keep him and bank on him putting up a pretty decent line than go after a below average group of FA.
This is why I listed the Number 5 starter as "Pitcher X."

What is it about his performance the last two years with his Big Blow-up Innings tells you he is worthy? Sure, he pitches 200+ innings and strikes out a lot of guys. It's the guys he doesn't strike out that bother me. I could pitch 200+ innings for the Sox, but believe me-you would not want me on The Hump for even one pitch in a Sox uni.

Craig Grebeck
10-05-2008, 11:33 PM
This is why I listed the Number 5 starter as "Pitcher X."

What is it about his performance the last two years with his Big Blow-up Innings tells you he is worthy? Sure, he pitches 200+ innings and strikes out a lot of guys. It's the guys he doesn't strike out that bother me. I could pitch 200+ innings for the Sox, but believe me-you would not want me on The Hump for even one pitch in a Sox uni.
Relevance? You probably wouldn't put up an ERA anywhere near Javy's. Not many fifth starters can. In fact, I can't think of one in the game.

Ever think there's a reason he sucked at the end -- y'know, other than the whole "he's got no grit!" stuff? Maybe his mechanics were messed up? Maybe some shoulder fatigue from pitching on short rest?

He's a damn good pitcher, and we'll be **** without him next year.

DumpJerry
10-05-2008, 11:36 PM
Relevance? You probably wouldn't put up an ERA anywhere near Javy's. Not many fifth starters can. In fact, I can't think of one in the game.

Ever think there's a reason he sucked at the end -- y'know, other than the whole "he's got no grit!" stuff? Maybe his mechanics were messed up? Maybe some shoulder fatigue from pitching on short rest?

He's a damn good pitcher, and we'll be **** without him next year.
He had some pretty rough stretches during the middle of the season. Coop would correct his mechanics and he would pitch lights out. For one game. Next game, it was back to good pitching until someone reaches and then the base hit fire sale starts up.........

I'm just saying I would like to see someone who is more consistent than Javy. He is becoming our Zambrano-when he's good, he's damn good, but when he's bad, it's a national disaster.

Craig Grebeck
10-05-2008, 11:38 PM
He had some pretty rough stretches during the middle of the season. Coop would correct his mechanics and he would pitch lights out. For one game. Next game, it was back to good pitching until someone reaches and then the base hit fire sale starts up.........

I'm just saying I would like to see someone who is more consistent than Javy. He is becoming our Zambrano-when he's good, he's damn good, but when he's bad, it's a national disaster.
Such is the nature of pitching. It happens. He's a damn good pitcher. Who are we going to sign who is even comparable in talent/track record? Should we give up valuable personnel to get someone who is not a sure bet to be better?

Pitching is a fickle aspect of the game. I'd rather not count on someone who can't put up the innings/numbers Javy is pretty much guaranteed to.

SoxSpeed22
10-05-2008, 11:39 PM
I still want Fernando Perez on this team next year. If Percival has problems coming back. Octavio Dotel will look better for the Rays. The Rays are more high on Desmond Jennings. The Rays can put together a package of Perez and another lower prospect for Dotel.
I also want them to get Chone Figgins, but I don't know what it will take to get him. Maybe some of our pitching prospects. I'm also sure that neither Swish, Thome nor Konerko are going anywhere, so that makes it more difficult.
If we move Vazquez down in the rotation, that should work out for him. He is what he is at this point. He makes a good #4 starter. Floyd and Danks have done enough to pass him.

Craig Grebeck
10-05-2008, 11:42 PM
I still want Fernando Perez on this team next year. If Percival has problems coming back. Octavio Dotel will look better for the Rays. They are more high on Desmond Jennings. The Rays can put together a package of Perez and another lower prospect for Dotel.
I also want them to get Chone Figgins, but I don't know what it will take to get him. Maybe some of our pitching prospects. I'm also sure that neither Swish, Thome nor Konerko are going anywhere, so that makes it more difficult.
If we move Vazquez down in the rotation, that should work out for him. He is what he is at this point. He makes a good #4 starter. Floyd and Danks have done enough to pass him.
Yuck. That guy strikes out an absolute ton and it is very, very unlikely he puts up numbers anywhere near those in AAA this year.

BadBobbyJenks
10-05-2008, 11:51 PM
He had some pretty rough stretches during the middle of the season. Coop would correct his mechanics and he would pitch lights out. For one game. Next game, it was back to good pitching until someone reaches and then the base hit fire sale starts up.........

I'm just saying I would like to see someone who is more consistent than Javy. He is becoming our Zambrano-when he's good, he's damn good, but when he's bad, it's a national disaster.

This is the whole point though. You just compared him to Zambrano, but we are not asking him to be Carlos. We need him to be the 4th guy or if we make a move the 5th guy. So what if he never puts up a consistent run that gives him the great season it seems he has the potential to do, we are not asking for it.

Teams would kill to have Javier at the end of their rotation.

jabrch
10-05-2008, 11:56 PM
Lunacy...sheer lunacy

johnnyg83
10-06-2008, 12:11 AM
figgins solves a few problems ... he takes a normally slow footed position at 3b and turns it into a speed spot. He also becomes a true leadoff guy for a team lacking one. Now, I've read rumors that the Angels have soured on him or maybe they have a 3b prospect, but I can't recall for sure..

Orlando Hudson gives us good speed from 2b as well. If we could get them both, you're talking about a blazing IF of Figgins, Ramirez, Hudson and uh, PK.

If we can get a CF too ... we've just made speed an every other proposition in the lineup.

figgins
hudson
TCQ
dye
PK
thome
Alexei
AJ
Unknown CF-er

Bench

Uribe
Wise
Anderson
Getz
FA- utility
FA- backup catcher

Jpgr91
10-06-2008, 12:35 AM
As much as everyone is upset with Javier's last month, there is no way that Kenny can get any value if he were to trade him. If everyone on this board views Javier as a 4th or 5th starter, what do the other GM's in baseball view him as? What can you get for a 4th or 5th starter than can not be counted on when it matters most?

Unless KW can get really creative, I am fairly certain that the rotation in 09 will be very much like the 08 rotation.

CHISOXFAN13
10-06-2008, 12:37 AM
Nobody knew who Iguchi or Ramirez were. I look for Kenny to get creative again with that position. A low risk, high reward winner like the previous two.

jabrch
10-06-2008, 12:40 AM
figgins solves a few problems ... he takes a normally slow footed position at 3b and turns it into a speed spot.

He'd be a terrible everyday defensive 3B. And his offensive contribution would be marginal at that position. Yuck.

Jpgr91
10-06-2008, 12:42 AM
Nobody knew who Iguchi or Ramirez were. I look for Kenny to get creative again with that position. A low risk, high reward winner like the previous two.

I just think its really hard to get low risk high reward starting pitchers. Outside of Loaiza, I can not think of a situation where Kenny has been sucessful. In the case of Floyd and Danks, they were over a year away when KW traded for them.

johnnyg83
10-06-2008, 12:45 AM
He'd be a terrible everyday defensive 3B. And his offensive contribution would be marginal at that position. Yuck.

He ain't perfect. I agree. But adding Scott Rolen, Pedro Feliz, Troy Glaus or any other prototypical slow-footed 3b gives us more of the same.

We need a leadoff hitter who can make things happen on the basepaths.

If our problem is speed and station-to-station, he addresses that. As for his defense ... he can't be worse than Josh Fields.

BadBobbyJenks
10-06-2008, 12:46 AM
He'd be a terrible everyday defensive 3B. And his offensive contribution would be marginal at that position. Yuck.

Why does he have to put up typical 3b numbers? We have power every where, so what if our leadoff hitter plays 3rd?

Edit: Interestingly as we talk about this Figgins dives to save a double and get the final out.

johnnyg83
10-06-2008, 12:49 AM
I just think its really hard to get low risk high reward starting pitchers. Outside of Loaiza, I can not think of a situation where Kenny has been sucessful. In the case of Floyd and Danks, they were over a year away when KW traded for them.

boy, you're hard to please. We had to wait a year for two stud starters? I;ll take it. We had to comb the waiver wire for Bobby Jenks? We had to give up Borchard for Thornton? We had to give up Cunningham for the #2 MVP candidate?

jabrch
10-06-2008, 12:53 AM
He ain't perfect. I agree. But adding Scott Rolen, Pedro Feliz, Troy Glaus or any other prototypical slow-footed 3b gives us more of the same.

We need a leadoff hitter who can make things happen on the basepaths.

If our problem is speed and station-to-station, he addresses that. As for his defense ... he can't be worse than Josh Fields.

I'm not sure this is a problem that needs resolving by going entirely the other way to guys who play slap and tickle.

Our ballpark isn't conducive to that.

jenn2080
10-06-2008, 12:55 AM
We need to get rid of Swisher, OC, Boone Logan, Crede, and Javy. After that I really don't care who we get. I would be perfectly fine with Juan Uribe staying at 3rd for now.

Is Chase Utley available?:D:

jabrch
10-06-2008, 12:57 AM
Unless KW can get really creative, I am fairly certain that the rotation in 09 will be very much like the 08 rotation.


5th best in the AL in a hitters park? I'll take it.

johnnyg83
10-06-2008, 01:00 AM
Trust me ... I'm not sure either. But today we had a glimpse ... BB, SB, 2out RBI ... my issue with the 08 sox was that they could not get the 2 out hit. So my management training says ... monetize your strengths ... give the batter every advantage ... steal ... be fast ... force the throw ..

jabrch
10-06-2008, 01:04 AM
Trust me ... I'm not sure either. But today we had a glimpse ... BB, SB, 2out RBI ... my issue with the 08 sox was that they could not get the 2 out hit. So my management training says ... monetize your strengths ... give the batter every advantage ... steal ... be fast ... force the throw ..

I don't see how that makes you better on a regular basis.

Giving up top prospects for Figgins or Roberts doesn't interest me when Furcal is a FA. Not only would he cost less, but he's a better player than either of them.

jcw218
10-06-2008, 05:32 AM
figgins solves a few problems ... he takes a normally slow footed position at 3b and turns it into a speed spot. He also becomes a true leadoff guy for a team lacking one. Now, I've read rumors that the Angels have soured on him or maybe they have a 3b prospect, but I can't recall for sure..

Orlando Hudson gives us good speed from 2b as well. If we could get them both, you're talking about a blazing IF of Figgins, Ramirez, Hudson and uh, PK.

If we can get a CF too ... we've just made speed an every other proposition in the lineup.

figgins
hudson
TCQ
dye
PK
thome
Alexei
AJ
Unknown CF-er

Bench

Uribe
Wise
Anderson
Getz
FA- utility
FA- backup catcher

One problem here, roster size limit of 25. If this was indeed our position players, that leaves only 10 pitchers on the roster, 5 starters and 5 in the bullpen, or are you going 4/6. I don't see the Sox going with less than 11 pitchers.

turners56
10-06-2008, 08:14 AM
Why would the Brewers get rid of Hardy? I don't want Juan Pierre. His OBP sucks.

SOXSINCE'70
10-06-2008, 09:34 AM
Jose will not pitch next year.

I don't count on seeing him until 2010,either.
Tearing an ACL or MCL can take a year and a half to two
years to heal AT LEAST.

btrain929
10-06-2008, 10:21 AM
If it doesn't cost Danks or a Floyd, I say you go hard after Adrian Beltre. He's not so much of a downgrade defensively from Crede, and he's better than Uribe at 3rd IMO. Plus he can drive in some big runs for you. If the asking price is going to inevitably be Danks or Floyd, then forget about it.

I agree 100%. He is pretty good defensively with a cannon, can hit, and is relatively young with decent speed. I doubt that they seriously ask us for Danks or Floyd because this is Beltre's contract year. It's not like we're trading for 3 years of Beltre. Fields + whoever/2 whoevers. If Beltre has a breakout year maybe he'll wanna resign here as well.

btrain929
10-06-2008, 10:25 AM
Do you want to win the AL Central again next year? Do you think the Twins will go away? Do you think the Indians won't continue the tear they have been on since the All Star Break which saw them have, IIRC, the third best record in the AL?

We will need five reliable horses in the rotation next year to get back to the post-season.

Yet you want Clayton Richard penciled into the rotation.....:scratch:

btrain929
10-06-2008, 10:26 AM
the sox don't pay someone that type of money to be a middle reliefer, he will be traded or he will start.

+1.

jabrch
10-06-2008, 10:29 AM
I don't count on seeing him until 2010,either.
Tearing an ACL or MCL can take a year and a half to two
years to heal AT LEAST.


And at age 60, it will take even longer for Jose to heal.

btrain929
10-06-2008, 10:35 AM
boy, you're hard to please. We had to wait a year for two stud starters? I;ll take it. We had to comb the waiver wire for Bobby Jenks? We had to give up Borchard for Thornton? We had to give up Cunningham for the #2 MVP candidate?

We gave up Cunningham for Danny Richard. Chris Carter is who we traded for TCQ.

russ99
10-06-2008, 05:13 PM
Question in regards to the difficult task ahead by Kenny in shedding one of Paul's or Jim's contract this offseason:

When the December non-tender deadline rolls around, can Kenny non-tender a 2009 contract to one of them? Or is that just for players prior to free agency service (6 years) and FA's?

Just looking for loopholes. It would be much easier to deal Dye, but we really need to keep him. He's always hit well, and contributes when slumping. I'd prefer Jermaine at DH, if possible.