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Rockabilly
10-03-2008, 10:30 AM
I have heard a few reports in the past 2 weeks that KW is going to go all out for Robinson Cano..

What would it take to make that trade with t he Yankees..

cws05champ
10-03-2008, 11:02 AM
I have heard a few reports in the past 2 weeks that KW is going to go all out for Robinson Cano..

What would it take to make that trade with t he Yankees..
It would probably start with Poreda and go from there. I would prefer we just sign a FA like Hudson or Furcal for a few years though. Cano has a great bat but he dogged it this year, we don't need that in the clubhouse for giving up really good young talent.

hawkjt
10-03-2008, 11:27 AM
Javy for Cano.

Just get it done,kenny.:D:

gobears1987
10-03-2008, 11:28 AM
Javy for Cano.

Just get it done,kenny.:D:That solves two problems for us.

Vestigio
10-03-2008, 11:30 AM
That solves two problems for us.

...while creating another

soltrain21
10-03-2008, 11:31 AM
I'm guessing Poreda and Getz would be involved somehow.

DumpJerry
10-03-2008, 11:32 AM
The Yankees want/need pitching like a fish needs water.

NLaloosh
10-03-2008, 12:04 PM
I don't see how Cano fits the need for speed or a leadoff hitter. Secondly, I don't see how he's worth a good starting pitcher.

I would be surprised if this is Kenny's target.

Irishsox1
10-03-2008, 12:05 PM
How about Javy for a bag of used balls?

soxfan43
10-03-2008, 12:20 PM
The yanks aren't taking Javy back, been there done that. Is Cano fast? He doesn't get many SBs, which is what I'd figure KW is after. It will be interesting to see if Poreda is moved. With Buehrle and Danks locked in, and the promise of Richard, that's a lot of lefty starting pitchers.

palehozenychicty
10-03-2008, 12:24 PM
The yanks aren't taking Javy back, been there done that. Is Cano fast? He doesn't get many SBs, which is what I'd figure KW is after. It will be interesting to see if Poreda is moved. With Buehrle and Danks locked in, and the promise of Richard, that's a lot of lefty starting pitchers.


Cano doesn't run a lot, although he has decent speed. He's got a great arm and an outstanding bat. When he's on, it's a thing of beauty. His glove is solid as well. It's the focus that has killed him. I think that Ozzie would have a good influence on him. That said, I really don't want the Sox to help the Yankees out too much. :tongue:

They need young position depth more than anything, which the Sox also need. FA will address their starting pitching needs, with the usual names bandied around, like AJ, CC, Sheets.

nodiggity59
10-03-2008, 12:33 PM
Cano is my number one target as well. I see him as comparable to TCQ. Highly talented, coming off a down year, average to maybe slightly above average glove, average to slightly above average speed, and is still quite young.

I would applaud a Poreda and Getz for Cano deal, though of course I'd prefer the pitcher be Broadway or something, but that's probably not happening.

Gotta buy low baby!

oeo
10-03-2008, 12:35 PM
It would probably start with Poreda and go from there. I would prefer we just sign a FA like Hudson or Furcal for a few years though. Cano has a great bat but he dogged it this year, we don't need that in the clubhouse for giving up really good young talent.

Change Poreda to Danks and I think you're right.

Would be pretty cool to snatch him up, but we don't have the farm system for that type of deal. Poreda is about all we have, and it will take more than that, which is why we'd have to give up a Danks or Floyd, probably getting something else in return also.

Cano is not only a great bat, but he's an excellent defender, too. It would be pretty nice to lock up our middle infield for a few years, but not at the expense of our starting pitching. Unless the Yanks give up Phil Hughes, I'd trade Floyd and another piece for Cano and Hughes.

Lip Man 1
10-03-2008, 12:39 PM
Rock:

Can you please state where you heard this. I haven't seen / heard a thing.

The talks continues strongly on two targets (now whether Kenny can get them or not is open to debate)

1. Chone Figgins
2. Orlando Hudson

Lip

asindc
10-03-2008, 12:39 PM
The yanks aren't taking Javy back, been there done that. Is Cano fast? He doesn't get many SBs, which is what I'd figure KW is after. It will be interesting to see if Poreda is moved. With Buehrle and Danks locked in, and the promise of Richard, that's a lot of lefty starting pitchers.

I agree. Why would the Yanks want Javy back, especially after seeing the last few weeks from him? They traded away "Little Game" Javy for that very reason.

As for Cano, he doesn't solve our leadoff problems. If we could get him cheap (not likely) then yes. But I expect him to be playing for the Yanks on Opening Day 2009.

cws05champ
10-03-2008, 12:47 PM
Change Poreda to Danks and I think you're right.

Would be pretty cool to snatch him up, but we don't have the farm system for that type of deal. Poreda is about all we have, and it will take more than that, which is why we'd have to give up a Danks or Floyd, probably getting something else in return also.
That is why I said you start with Poreda and go from there. There would have be a lot more from our side going over. I would not even mention Danks or Floyd because they are about as untouchable as it gets right now.
Maybe with Jeter's range decreasing they are thinking about moving him to 2B and moving Arod back to short...or just picking up a SS in the offseason.

Lukin13
10-03-2008, 12:48 PM
1. Adrian Beltre
2. Mark Ellis
3. Coco Crisp

Craig Grebeck
10-03-2008, 12:52 PM
Yuck. Cano is terrible*.

*relative to what people think he is. He's an above average 2nd baseman; but why bother giving up a ton for him when you can just sign Hudson/Ellis/Furcal (to play SS and keep Ramirez at 2b)?

oeo
10-03-2008, 12:54 PM
Yuck. Cano is terrible.

After one bad year (actually, make that a first half)? He's 25, has already shown good ability with the bat, and plays an amazing second base.

I seriously hope the Yankees feel the same way you do, then maybe we can rip them off.

*relative to what people think he is. He's an above average 2nd baseman; but why bother giving up a ton for him when you can just sign Hudson/Ellis/Furcal (to play SS and keep Ramirez at 2b)?I'd like to get some younger pieces into the puzzle. Kenny needs to look at a younger guy in at least one of the open positions.

Craig Grebeck
10-03-2008, 01:12 PM
After one bad year (actually, make that a first half)? He's 25, has already shown good ability with the bat, and plays an amazing second base.

I seriously hope the Yankees feel the same way you do, then maybe we can rip them off.

I'd like to get some younger pieces into the puzzle. Kenny needs to look at a younger guy in at least one of the open positions.
Trading young guys for an overrated young guy will not make us a younger team overall. Listen, if we want to get younger, just give the job to Getz. He's got much better plate discipline and can put up solid numbers.

I'm not giving up Poreda/Allen unless it's for an elite player. Cano is simply not in that vein.

Now, if Carlos Beltran becomes available...

forte
10-03-2008, 01:14 PM
I'm not giving up Poreda/Allen unless it's for an elite player. Cano is simply not in that vein.

Now, if Carlos Beltran becomes available...

You really think that we can get Carlos Beltran for Poreda? :rolleyes:

Update: Poreda is not an elite prospect. He will not get us an elite player

JermaineDye05
10-03-2008, 01:19 PM
1. Adrian Beltre
2. Mark Ellis
3. Coco Crisp

Glad to see I'm not the only one interested in prying Adrian Beltre away from the Mariners.

champagne030
10-03-2008, 01:21 PM
Update: Poreda is not an elite prospect. He will not get us an elite player

You got that right.......

JermaineDye05
10-03-2008, 01:27 PM
You got that right.......

Fine, throw in Lance Broadway and Mike MacDougal......


Maybe we can even get him for Clayton Richard straight up? He did have a great outing there...............

btrain929
10-03-2008, 01:29 PM
Glad to see I'm not the only one interested in prying Adrian Beltre away from the Mariners.

I'm on that boat as well. Next year will be his contract year (always good motivation to have a monster year), and if he leaves after '09, I'm pretty sure he's a Type A FA, netting us 2 draft picks ala Orlando Cabrera. If he does well and we resign him, even better. Plus, I don't trading for 1 year of Beltre would require the entire farm like it might for Cano.

soxfan43
10-03-2008, 01:47 PM
You really think that we can get Carlos Beltran for Poreda? :rolleyes:

Update: Poreda is not an elite prospect. He will not get us an elite player


Yup. Just because he is our supposed best prospect, doesn't mean he's a great prospect outside of the org.

NLaloosh
10-03-2008, 02:25 PM
Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't think the Sox need a whole lot of trading for next year.

They can easily sign a 5th starter. They can sign Hudson or another second baseman. They don't command a lot of money and I wouldn't want to trade much for any of them unless it was a true MVP type of player such as a Chase Utley - not Cano.

If Ozzie wants speed and high OBP then Roberts/Hudson/Figgins and the like is the way to go.

I still like the idea of taking Mora's salary from the O's along with Roberts and then trading Paulie for Figgins. Figgins would be best as a super-utility 3b/ss/2b/dh/of that would start about 80% of the time.

I'd like to see the Sox hold onto some prospects this year.

Trade Konerko,Logan, Fields, MacDougal, Getz and Broadway etc. to Balt./LAA to get Roberts, Mora, Figgins and Shields.

Then, sign a 5th starter. Clayton should be the 2nd lefty/longman in the pen.

I'd love to see a bullpen next year of:

Jenks
Shields
Linebrink
Dotel
Carrasco
Thornton
Richard

with Poreda and Russell waiting in Charlotte. That would be depth.

esbrechtel
10-03-2008, 02:32 PM
No way does LAA or Baltimore go for that trade....

Rockabilly
10-03-2008, 02:45 PM
Rock:

Can you please state where you heard this. I haven't seen / heard a thing.

The talks continues strongly on two targets (now whether Kenny can get them or not is open to debate)

1. Chone Figgins
2. Orlando Hudson

Lip


Ed Price a Yankees beat writer was on XM radio was talking about the off season for the Yanks.. He mentioned that Kenny Williams will be going hard after Cano.

Also that KW tried to get Cano before the trading deadline...

He said that the Yanks want a lot of pitching and a CF this off season

jabrch
10-03-2008, 02:55 PM
I'd rather have Furcal as a FA than Cano and give up top talent.

soxfan43
10-03-2008, 02:59 PM
Ed Price a Yankees beat writer was on XM radio was talking about the off season for the Yanks.. He mentioned that Kenny Williams will be going hard after Cano.

Also that KW tried to get Cano before the trading deadline...

He said that the Yanks want a lot of pitching and a CF this off season

So Brian Anderson, Poreda and Broadway?

Craig Grebeck
10-03-2008, 03:07 PM
You really think that we can get Carlos Beltran for Poreda? :rolleyes:

Update: Poreda is not an elite prospect. He will not get us an elite player
Clearly that was my statement. Learn to read.

I said I wouldn't give up Poreda/Allen unless for an elite player. As in, part of a package for an elite player.

Zisk77
10-03-2008, 03:44 PM
I'd rather have Furcal as a FA than Cano and give up top talent.

While I like Furcal as a player too, just realize he has like 3 DUI's. I'm not sure Chicago will be his kind of town.

I wouldn't be surprised if KW takes another run at Roberts in the off season and Balt may be more willing to part with him as I believe he becomes a FA after next year.

Cano has all the tools...when he feels like playing...not sure he would be worth the aggravation.

whitesox901
10-03-2008, 03:49 PM
Cano would add more to our line-up yes,

but id rather just go with Getz

jabrch
10-03-2008, 04:06 PM
While I like Furcal as a player too, just realize he has like 3 DUI's. I'm not sure Chicago will be his kind of town.

He has done fine in LA...

I think Chicago is actually better for a kid like that than Atlanta. You can live in the middle of the Gold Coast and walk to where ever you are drinking. In Atlanta, where I believe he got all his DUIs (same with LA) the city is more spread out and he wouldn't usually be living where he is drinking.

In any case, his last DUI was a while ago - 3 or 4 years ago - in Atlanta. He's a bit older and probably a bit smarter. I'd take a shot.

Roberts would be fine also. He just would be expensive. The Os aren't giving him up easily - he's one of Angelos' favorites.

Foulke You
10-03-2008, 04:52 PM
Furcal is interesting but his asking price might be too high. Also, hasn't he been on the injured list a bunch of times while in LA? I'd hate to sign him for big bucks and have him only play 90 games a season for us.

gogosox16
10-03-2008, 04:54 PM
Furcal is interesting but his asking price might be too high. Also, hasn't he been on the injured list a bunch of times while in LA? I'd hate to sign him for big bucks and have him only play 90 games a season for us.
He missed most of the season this year. I would much rather take a risk on a Cano or even Getz, rather spend big bucks for a guy who seems to be injury prone. But Herm has done a great job keeping injury prone players healthy. So theres pro's and con's...

oeo
10-03-2008, 05:07 PM
Trading young guys for an overrated young guy will not make us a younger team overall. Listen, if we want to get younger, just give the job to Getz. He's got much better plate discipline and can put up solid numbers.

I agree. I don't want to give up the major league talent we would have to. I'm just saying I would take Cano if we had a farm system that we could use in order to deal for him.

And you have no evidence that Getz will put up solid numbers. I like his approach, but it's not a sure thing.

Eddo144
10-03-2008, 05:28 PM
Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't think the Sox need a whole lot of trading for next year.

...

Trade Konerko,Logan, Fields, MacDougal, Getz and Broadway etc. to Balt./LAA to get Roberts, Mora, Figgins and Shields.
You don't think a single, three-way, blockbuster than involves six players going out and four coming in is "a whole lot of trading"?

turners56
10-03-2008, 05:42 PM
I have heard a few reports in the past 2 weeks that KW is going to go all out for Robinson Cano..

What would it take to make that trade with t he Yankees..

Hmmmm...

Coming off a bad season, a world of talent, Yankees in need of good players fast...

Trade them Javy!

Tragg
10-03-2008, 09:07 PM
Blockbuster trades are not where Kenny Williams is at his best. Those brought Swisher, Todd Ritchie, and Javy. We don't have much to trade, and trading young pitching as thin as we are is questionable.

Where we do have some equity is in money, with various salaries rolling off.
Sign some free agents!!!!

scarsofthumper
10-03-2008, 09:29 PM
Floyd for Cano and Nady

jabrch
10-03-2008, 09:36 PM
Floyd for Cano and Nady

I wouldn't do that.

EuroSox35
10-03-2008, 09:54 PM
Brian Roberts is the perfect player, fills the infield hole, top of the order guy, steals bases. He might cost a lot, but you're asking for something good, let's stop going bargain shopping...

scarsofthumper
10-03-2008, 11:53 PM
I wouldn't do that.
Yeah, what am I thinking.

Floyd for Cano and Melky Cabrera

Craig Grebeck
10-04-2008, 12:04 AM
Yeah, what am I thinking.

Floyd for Cano and Melky Cabrera
Just, stop it. Please. Young, cheap starting pitching is priceless.

Noneck
10-04-2008, 12:37 AM
Cano? The Sox can not afford to give up what it will take to get him.

Roberts? See above

Furcal? His FA price will be above market value in the Sox eyes as are all top tier FA.

BadBobbyJenks
10-04-2008, 12:55 AM
My main target just hit a triple in Anaheim to lead off the 8th.

GoGoCrede
10-04-2008, 01:03 AM
My main target just hit a triple in Anaheim to lead off the 8th.

Saw that. With our slow runners that would barely be a double.

Optipessimism
10-04-2008, 03:25 AM
My ideal offseason:

1. Let Griffey, Cabrera, Hall, Uribe, and Crede walk.

2. Atlanta wants a veteran SP and they have some nice prospects, including some OFers, namely Gorkys Hernandez (came from the Tigs in the Renteria deal). Javy is on a below-market deal, has tantalizing stuff, is a veteran pitcher, wants to play close to Puerto Rico, and he only sucks when he starts games that matter. Considering Atlanta isn't going to play any meaningful games anytime soon, send him to the Braves for CF Gorkys Hernandez (talked up like he's a Carlos Gomez clone) and LHP JoJo Reyes, who has a nice arm and could benefit by hangin' with Mr. Cooper.

3. TB needs an OF and some other stuff too, plus they need to make room for David Price. Edwin Jackson and Jeff Niemann should both be available (I imagine they'd hold onto McGee and Davis) so let's send them Swisher, who they'd control for a long time on a reasonable deal and who would also give them some flexibility. Edwin Jackson + Willy Aybar for Swish would strengthen the bench, open up CF, and fill a rotation spot.

4. Sign Freddy Garcia and Mark Grudzielanek. Both should be cheap and neither will want long-term commitments (Freddy is going to want to up his value and Mark doesn't have too many years left). Let Grudz hit second and play 2B, keeping Getz as a backup if he starts to regress or gets hurt. Put Freddy in the rotation with your TB pitcher(s), Reyes, and Richard all battling for the 5th spot in the rotation, and the losers end up as backup plans. When Contreras comes back he can fit in where ever the team needs him, and if Freddy gets hurt, there are at least some internal options better than Lance freaking Broadway.

5. Billy Beane needs a 3B and reportedly had interest in Fields, who sounds like he's out the door and should be available at a pretty low cost. Would Beane consider selling high on Joey Devine and Santiago Casilla for Fields and a lower-level but still pretty high-ceiling Sox relief prospect like Adam Russell? If so that would be a huge upgrade to the pen for us, and if Fields turns out, that would be an enormous buy low/sell high steal for Beane.

6. Deal whatever is necessary from the farm for Figgins and put him at 3B. Dealing a top prospect like Poreda doesn't matter because Figgins would most likely be a Type A free agent after the season anyway, so we'd get back a draft pick.

7. Invite a few players like Trot Nixon, Mackowiak, Wes Helms, Tony Clark, etc. to ST and let them compete for a spot on the bench as a PH.

8. Then lastly, if the Sox were able to land a couple more relievers, I'd offer Dye and Dotel to the Phils for Victorino. I don't know if they'd consider, but Dye is on a great contract, has another year left plus I believe 2010 as well, and the Phils are losing Burrell. The Phils have Golson coming up so they might possibly consider. If the Sox could pull something off involving Dye for Victorino, I'd love to see the Sox go as hard as they possibly can prospect-wise at Jeremy Hermida who should also be available. Again, deal the farm if you have to for that guy.

Under my supreme plan of awesomeness, if everything goes well, this is next year's team (and we cut payroll and don't lose picks via Type A FA):

S Figgins 3B
S Victorino CF
R Quentin LF
L Thome DH
R Konerko 1B
L Pierzynski C
R Ramirez SS
L Hermida RF
R Grudzielanek 2B

Rotation: Buehrle-Floyd-Danks-Garcia-Jackson/Reyes
Bullpen: Jenks, Thornton, Linebrink, Casilla, Devine, Richard
Bench: Lucy C, Anderson OF, Aybar IF, Getz IF, Veteran PH

sullythered
10-04-2008, 06:18 AM
Main target should be: some dude I've never heard of, or a young pither who's team has given up on. Hell, it worked pretty good last offseason.

munchman33
10-04-2008, 08:18 AM
My ideal offseason:

1. Let Griffey, Cabrera, Hall, Uribe, and Crede walk.

2. Atlanta wants a veteran SP and they have some nice prospects, including some OFers, namely Gorkys Hernandez (came from the Tigs in the Renteria deal). Javy is on a below-market deal, has tantalizing stuff, is a veteran pitcher, wants to play close to Puerto Rico, and he only sucks when he starts games that matter. Considering Atlanta isn't going to play any meaningful games anytime soon, send him to the Braves for CF Gorkys Hernandez (talked up like he's a Carlos Gomez clone) and LHP JoJo Reyes, who has a nice arm and could benefit by hangin' with Mr. Cooper.

3. TB needs an OF and some other stuff too, plus they need to make room for David Price. Edwin Jackson and Jeff Niemann should both be available (I imagine they'd hold onto McGee and Davis) so let's send them Swisher, who they'd control for a long time on a reasonable deal and who would also give them some flexibility. Edwin Jackson + Willy Aybar for Swish would strengthen the bench, open up CF, and fill a rotation spot.

4. Sign Freddy Garcia and Mark Grudzielanek. Both should be cheap and neither will want long-term commitments (Freddy is going to want to up his value and Mark doesn't have too many years left). Let Grudz hit second and play 2B, keeping Getz as a backup if he starts to regress or gets hurt. Put Freddy in the rotation with your TB pitcher(s), Reyes, and Richard all battling for the 5th spot in the rotation, and the losers end up as backup plans. When Contreras comes back he can fit in where ever the team needs him, and if Freddy gets hurt, there are at least some internal options better than Lance freaking Broadway.

5. Billy Beane needs a 3B and reportedly had interest in Fields, who sounds like he's out the door and should be available at a pretty low cost. Would Beane consider selling high on Joey Devine and Santiago Casilla for Fields and a lower-level but still pretty high-ceiling Sox relief prospect like Adam Russell? If so that would be a huge upgrade to the pen for us, and if Fields turns out, that would be an enormous buy low/sell high steal for Beane.

6. Deal whatever is necessary from the farm for Figgins and put him at 3B. Dealing a top prospect like Poreda doesn't matter because Figgins would most likely be a Type A free agent after the season anyway, so we'd get back a draft pick.

7. Invite a few players like Trot Nixon, Mackowiak, Wes Helms, Tony Clark, etc. to ST and let them compete for a spot on the bench as a PH.

8. Then lastly, if the Sox were able to land a couple more relievers, I'd offer Dye and Dotel to the Phils for Victorino. I don't know if they'd consider, but Dye is on a great contract, has another year left plus I believe 2010 as well, and the Phils are losing Burrell. The Phils have Golson coming up so they might possibly consider. If the Sox could pull something off involving Dye for Victorino, I'd love to see the Sox go as hard as they possibly can prospect-wise at Jeremy Hermida who should also be available. Again, deal the farm if you have to for that guy.

Under my supreme plan of awesomeness, if everything goes well, this is next year's team (and we cut payroll and don't lose picks via Type A FA):

S Figgins 3B
S Victorino CF
R Quentin LF
L Thome DH
R Konerko 1B
L Pierzynski C
R Ramirez SS
L Hermida RF
R Grudzielanek 2B

Rotation: Buehrle-Floyd-Danks-Garcia-Jackson/Reyes
Bullpen: Jenks, Thornton, Linebrink, Casilla, Devine, Richard
Bench: Lucy C, Anderson OF, Aybar IF, Getz IF, Veteran PH

You should change your name to OptiOptomism.

Craig Grebeck
10-04-2008, 08:28 AM
My ideal offseason:

1. Let Griffey, Cabrera, Hall, Uribe, and Crede walk.

2. Atlanta wants a veteran SP and they have some nice prospects, including some OFers, namely Gorkys Hernandez (came from the Tigs in the Renteria deal). Javy is on a below-market deal, has tantalizing stuff, is a veteran pitcher, wants to play close to Puerto Rico, and he only sucks when he starts games that matter. Considering Atlanta isn't going to play any meaningful games anytime soon, send him to the Braves for CF Gorkys Hernandez (talked up like he's a Carlos Gomez clone) and LHP JoJo Reyes, who has a nice arm and could benefit by hangin' with Mr. Cooper.

3. TB needs an OF and some other stuff too, plus they need to make room for David Price. Edwin Jackson and Jeff Niemann should both be available (I imagine they'd hold onto McGee and Davis) so let's send them Swisher, who they'd control for a long time on a reasonable deal and who would also give them some flexibility. Edwin Jackson + Willy Aybar for Swish would strengthen the bench, open up CF, and fill a rotation spot.

4. Sign Freddy Garcia and Mark Grudzielanek. Both should be cheap and neither will want long-term commitments (Freddy is going to want to up his value and Mark doesn't have too many years left). Let Grudz hit second and play 2B, keeping Getz as a backup if he starts to regress or gets hurt. Put Freddy in the rotation with your TB pitcher(s), Reyes, and Richard all battling for the 5th spot in the rotation, and the losers end up as backup plans. When Contreras comes back he can fit in where ever the team needs him, and if Freddy gets hurt, there are at least some internal options better than Lance freaking Broadway.

5. Billy Beane needs a 3B and reportedly had interest in Fields, who sounds like he's out the door and should be available at a pretty low cost. Would Beane consider selling high on Joey Devine and Santiago Casilla for Fields and a lower-level but still pretty high-ceiling Sox relief prospect like Adam Russell? If so that would be a huge upgrade to the pen for us, and if Fields turns out, that would be an enormous buy low/sell high steal for Beane.

6. Deal whatever is necessary from the farm for Figgins and put him at 3B. Dealing a top prospect like Poreda doesn't matter because Figgins would most likely be a Type A free agent after the season anyway, so we'd get back a draft pick.

7. Invite a few players like Trot Nixon, Mackowiak, Wes Helms, Tony Clark, etc. to ST and let them compete for a spot on the bench as a PH.

8. Then lastly, if the Sox were able to land a couple more relievers, I'd offer Dye and Dotel to the Phils for Victorino. I don't know if they'd consider, but Dye is on a great contract, has another year left plus I believe 2010 as well, and the Phils are losing Burrell. The Phils have Golson coming up so they might possibly consider. If the Sox could pull something off involving Dye for Victorino, I'd love to see the Sox go as hard as they possibly can prospect-wise at Jeremy Hermida who should also be available. Again, deal the farm if you have to for that guy.

Under my supreme plan of awesomeness, if everything goes well, this is next year's team (and we cut payroll and don't lose picks via Type A FA):

S Figgins 3B
S Victorino CF
R Quentin LF
L Thome DH
R Konerko 1B
L Pierzynski C
R Ramirez SS
L Hermida RF
R Grudzielanek 2B

Rotation: Buehrle-Floyd-Danks-Garcia-Jackson/Reyes
Bullpen: Jenks, Thornton, Linebrink, Casilla, Devine, Richard
Bench: Lucy C, Anderson OF, Aybar IF, Getz IF, Veteran PH
This is flat out terrible. Nick Swisher for Edwin Jackson? Seriously?

btrain929
10-04-2008, 09:19 AM
My ideal offseason:

1. Let Griffey, Cabrera, Hall, Uribe, and Crede walk.

2. Atlanta wants a veteran SP and they have some nice prospects, including some OFers, namely Gorkys Hernandez (came from the Tigs in the Renteria deal). Javy is on a below-market deal, has tantalizing stuff, is a veteran pitcher, wants to play close to Puerto Rico, and he only sucks when he starts games that matter. Considering Atlanta isn't going to play any meaningful games anytime soon, send him to the Braves for CF Gorkys Hernandez (talked up like he's a Carlos Gomez clone) and LHP JoJo Reyes, who has a nice arm and could benefit by hangin' with Mr. Cooper.

3. TB needs an OF and some other stuff too, plus they need to make room for David Price. Edwin Jackson and Jeff Niemann should both be available (I imagine they'd hold onto McGee and Davis) so let's send them Swisher, who they'd control for a long time on a reasonable deal and who would also give them some flexibility. Edwin Jackson + Willy Aybar for Swish would strengthen the bench, open up CF, and fill a rotation spot.

4. Sign Freddy Garcia and Mark Grudzielanek. Both should be cheap and neither will want long-term commitments (Freddy is going to want to up his value and Mark doesn't have too many years left). Let Grudz hit second and play 2B, keeping Getz as a backup if he starts to regress or gets hurt. Put Freddy in the rotation with your TB pitcher(s), Reyes, and Richard all battling for the 5th spot in the rotation, and the losers end up as backup plans. When Contreras comes back he can fit in where ever the team needs him, and if Freddy gets hurt, there are at least some internal options better than Lance freaking Broadway.

5. Billy Beane needs a 3B and reportedly had interest in Fields, who sounds like he's out the door and should be available at a pretty low cost. Would Beane consider selling high on Joey Devine and Santiago Casilla for Fields and a lower-level but still pretty high-ceiling Sox relief prospect like Adam Russell? If so that would be a huge upgrade to the pen for us, and if Fields turns out, that would be an enormous buy low/sell high steal for Beane.

6. Deal whatever is necessary from the farm for Figgins and put him at 3B. Dealing a top prospect like Poreda doesn't matter because Figgins would most likely be a Type A free agent after the season anyway, so we'd get back a draft pick.

7. Invite a few players like Trot Nixon, Mackowiak, Wes Helms, Tony Clark, etc. to ST and let them compete for a spot on the bench as a PH.

8. Then lastly, if the Sox were able to land a couple more relievers, I'd offer Dye and Dotel to the Phils for Victorino. I don't know if they'd consider, but Dye is on a great contract, has another year left plus I believe 2010 as well, and the Phils are losing Burrell. The Phils have Golson coming up so they might possibly consider. If the Sox could pull something off involving Dye for Victorino, I'd love to see the Sox go as hard as they possibly can prospect-wise at Jeremy Hermida who should also be available. Again, deal the farm if you have to for that guy.

Under my supreme plan of awesomeness, if everything goes well, this is next year's team (and we cut payroll and don't lose picks via Type A FA):

S Figgins 3B
S Victorino CF
R Quentin LF
L Thome DH
R Konerko 1B
L Pierzynski C
R Ramirez SS
L Hermida RF
R Grudzielanek 2B

Rotation: Buehrle-Floyd-Danks-Garcia-Jackson/Reyes
Bullpen: Jenks, Thornton, Linebrink, Casilla, Devine, Richard
Bench: Lucy C, Anderson OF, Aybar IF, Getz IF, Veteran PH

You could have saved your self a lot of time and said: "Let's trade everyone who sucked on our team this year to other teams for their best young players and prospects."

That'll work!!!!

munchman33
10-04-2008, 09:43 AM
My ideal offseason:

1. Let Griffey, Cabrera, Hall, Uribe, and Crede walk.

2. Atlanta wants a veteran SP and they have some nice prospects, including some OFers, namely Gorkys Hernandez (came from the Tigs in the Renteria deal). Javy is on a below-market deal, has tantalizing stuff, is a veteran pitcher, wants to play close to Puerto Rico, and he only sucks when he starts games that matter. Considering Atlanta isn't going to play any meaningful games anytime soon, send him to the Braves for CF Gorkys Hernandez (talked up like he's a Carlos Gomez clone) and LHP JoJo Reyes, who has a nice arm and could benefit by hangin' with Mr. Cooper.

3. TB needs an OF and some other stuff too, plus they need to make room for David Price. Edwin Jackson and Jeff Niemann should both be available (I imagine they'd hold onto McGee and Davis) so let's send them Swisher, who they'd control for a long time on a reasonable deal and who would also give them some flexibility. Edwin Jackson + Willy Aybar for Swish would strengthen the bench, open up CF, and fill a rotation spot.

4. Sign Freddy Garcia and Mark Grudzielanek. Both should be cheap and neither will want long-term commitments (Freddy is going to want to up his value and Mark doesn't have too many years left). Let Grudz hit second and play 2B, keeping Getz as a backup if he starts to regress or gets hurt. Put Freddy in the rotation with your TB pitcher(s), Reyes, and Richard all battling for the 5th spot in the rotation, and the losers end up as backup plans. When Contreras comes back he can fit in where ever the team needs him, and if Freddy gets hurt, there are at least some internal options better than Lance freaking Broadway.

5. Billy Beane needs a 3B and reportedly had interest in Fields, who sounds like he's out the door and should be available at a pretty low cost. Would Beane consider selling high on Joey Devine and Santiago Casilla for Fields and a lower-level but still pretty high-ceiling Sox relief prospect like Adam Russell? If so that would be a huge upgrade to the pen for us, and if Fields turns out, that would be an enormous buy low/sell high steal for Beane.

6. Deal whatever is necessary from the farm for Figgins and put him at 3B. Dealing a top prospect like Poreda doesn't matter because Figgins would most likely be a Type A free agent after the season anyway, so we'd get back a draft pick.

7. Invite a few players like Trot Nixon, Mackowiak, Wes Helms, Tony Clark, etc. to ST and let them compete for a spot on the bench as a PH.

8. Then lastly, if the Sox were able to land a couple more relievers, I'd offer Dye and Dotel to the Phils for Victorino. I don't know if they'd consider, but Dye is on a great contract, has another year left plus I believe 2010 as well, and the Phils are losing Burrell. The Phils have Golson coming up so they might possibly consider. If the Sox could pull something off involving Dye for Victorino, I'd love to see the Sox go as hard as they possibly can prospect-wise at Jeremy Hermida who should also be available. Again, deal the farm if you have to for that guy.

Under my supreme plan of awesomeness, if everything goes well, this is next year's team (and we cut payroll and don't lose picks via Type A FA):

S Figgins 3B
S Victorino CF
R Quentin LF
L Thome DH
R Konerko 1B
L Pierzynski C
R Ramirez SS
L Hermida RF
R Grudzielanek 2B

Rotation: Buehrle-Floyd-Danks-Garcia-Jackson/Reyes
Bullpen: Jenks, Thornton, Linebrink, Casilla, Devine, Richard
Bench: Lucy C, Anderson OF, Aybar IF, Getz IF, Veteran PH

I've had more time to think about it and I'll address each of these.

1. All of that will happen.

2. This is very possible.

3. Tampa doesn't need outfielders that badly that they'd give up a young starting pitcher. And Nick Swisher? Maybe if it was Mike Jackson.

4. I think the Tigers have an option on Freddy. And there are a number of better options for second base.

5. I have a feeling Fields will be on and off the team next year, and the full time DH in 2010.

6. If it doesn't happen now, it'll probably never happen. I'd bet on yes. Kenny generally gets his guys, for better or worse.

7. I like the idea, but Mack would probably be the only one to accept.

8. The Phillies wouldn't do the Victorino deal, and the Marlins would expect more than we have available to offer for Hermida.

GAsoxfan
10-04-2008, 02:17 PM
He missed most of the season this year. I would much rather take a risk on a Cano or even Getz, rather spend big bucks for a guy who seems to be injury prone. But Herm has done a great job keeping injury prone players healthy. So theres pro's and con's...


If the Sox signed Furcal, do you think they would consider moving Ramirez to CF and going with Getz/FA at 2nd? The Sox need to do something about CF, and I think it's much easier to find a decent 2nd baseman than a decent CF.

GAsoxfan
10-04-2008, 02:23 PM
One player I expect Kenny to target is Rocco Baldelli. He's another buy-low type guy that Kenny likes to target (i.e. Dye, Floyd, Quentin).

Billy Ashley
10-04-2008, 03:59 PM
Cano is my number one target as well. I see him as comparable to TCQ. Highly talented, coming off a down year, average to maybe slightly above average glove, average to slightly above average speed, and is still quite young.

I would applaud a Poreda and Getz for Cano deal, though of course I'd prefer the pitcher be Broadway or something, but that's probably not happening.

Gotta buy low baby!

I don't think they compare well at all. Quentin is a guy who had an awesome minor league track record who looked like a superstar several years ago but injuries had derailed him. Arizona was frustrated despite his tremendous combination of power, discipline and contact skills. Being a liability in the field also didn't help. However, most people thought Williams got away with murder. He traded a guy who has even more defensive issues for a relatively young player who was on the cheap and had superstar potential. It was an insanely one sided trade even before Quentin started to rake this season.

Cano on the other hand is a guy who never had a track record, can't draw a walk to save his life and only has looked good because he did freakishly well on balls in play. Don't get me wrong, given his defense I suspect he's bound to rebound and be pretty good, but the notion that he's a super star in waiting ignores his glaring issues as a batter. Additionally, while he's a good fielder, there are concerns about his ability to remain at second given that he's a thick strong kid. If he fills out he might be destined for the already crowded outfield. Also, he's no longer cheap.

They both would be buy low guys. However beyond that I don't see much in common. Esp, considering Quentin was had for an all bat no glove first basemen who was several years away from every cracking the majors as a DH at the time trade while Vasquez while unpopular at the moment is a better than average major league pitcher.

LITTLE NELL
10-04-2008, 04:08 PM
One player I expect Kenny to target is Rocco Baldelli. He's another buy-low type guy that Kenny likes to target (i.e. Dye, Floyd, Quentin).
Baldelli is someone because of health issues I would take a pass on. If he was healthy I would love to have him.

Optipessimism
10-04-2008, 05:24 PM
You should change your name to OptiOptomism.

I'm not optimistic that most of this would happen. More of a dream.

This is flat out terrible. Nick Swisher for Edwin Jackson? Seriously?

Why is that terrible? Jackson has some great stuff, and this year he appears to be starting to put it together. Nick is on a long-term team-friendly deal and the Rays aren't going to suddenly up their payroll into the 90-100 million range, at least I don't think they will. I think that's a pretty good deal. Jackson has the upside of a #2/#3 starter and Swish is do for a rebound. TB has been floating Jackson for a while anyway, and I'd bet about anything that he'll be traded over the offseason. They left him off the playoff roster and is going to be hitting arbitration soon, and they need to open up a slot in their rotation for Price. Plus they've got three pretty damn good pitching prospects aside from Price.

You could have saved your self a lot of time and said: "Let's trade everyone who sucked on our team this year to other teams for their best young players and prospects."

That'll work!!!!

Some of our sucky players actually have some value. I don't want to see Javy again, but there will be other teams wanting him, especially with his contract situation. When #5 starters get $12 million, a guy that is basically a #3 but sucks in big games is worth much more than $11 million on the open market. Swisher is due for a rebound and is on a nice contract, and we have to sell low on someone if we want to open up CF and want to keep Dye at the same time.

I've had more time to think about it and I'll address each of these.

1. All of that will happen.

2. This is very possible.

3. Tampa doesn't need outfielders that badly that they'd give up a young starting pitcher. And Nick Swisher? Maybe if it was Mike Jackson.

4. I think the Tigers have an option on Freddy. And there are a number of better options for second base.

5. I have a feeling Fields will be on and off the team next year, and the full time DH in 2010.

6. If it doesn't happen now, it'll probably never happen. I'd bet on yes. Kenny generally gets his guys, for better or worse.

7. I like the idea, but Mack would probably be the only one to accept.

8. The Phillies wouldn't do the Victorino deal, and the Marlins would expect more than we have available to offer for Hermida.

Swisher is a better player than what we've seen this year, and Jackson is far from being a stud. He has the potential to be a stud, but he's not there yet.

You might be right about Fields, but I really think the Sox try to move him.

The Victorino deal is probably dreaming, but whatever. I just love that guy and I want him on my team. As far as the Marlins, I don't know that we wouldn't have some things they'd want. They're going to want prospects again, and I don't think Hermida is going to be worth an elite prospect.

Optipessimism
10-04-2008, 05:26 PM
Baldelli is someone because of health issues I would take a pass on. If he was healthy I would love to have him.
It sounds like he wants to return to Tampa Bay anyway. If he could come here on an incentive-laden deal with a low base that is full of team options then he'd be a great signing, but if he's going to take a deal like that, I think he'll take it with Tampa.

SoxSpeed22
10-04-2008, 05:34 PM
If they go after Cano, I would also like to see KW buy low on Melky Cabrera. He is coming off of a bad year and is a good defender. If he can improve, that would be a good deal.

turners56
10-04-2008, 05:39 PM
If they go after Cano, I would also like to see KW buy low on Melky Cabrera. He is coming off of a bad year and is a good defender. If he can improve, that would be a good deal.

I was thinking of this after he got demoted to AAA. He's gonna be a better hitter than BA (he'll hit at least .250) and play a similar type of defense.

Billy Ashley
10-04-2008, 06:03 PM
Brain Anderson is a much better fielder than Melky. Melky has a plus arm, aside from that he's the absolute definition of replacement level.

turners56
10-04-2008, 06:36 PM
Brain Anderson is a much better fielder than Melky. Melky has a plus arm, aside from that he's the absolute definition of replacement level.

He hits much better though.

Billy Ashley
10-05-2008, 12:03 PM
He hits much better though.

And Cancer is better than ALS.

Yes Melky's a better hitter but they both are pretty freaking terrible. Last season Melky posted an OPS+ of 70. The year before, 89, the year before that he was tolerable at 95. If he was an elite fielder you can afford him posting and OPS+ of 90. The truth of the matter is that he's a bad fielder though. Though he does have a good arm.

I agree the White Sox need to upgrade over Brain Anderson, but Melky is a lateral move at best.

cards press box
10-05-2008, 12:15 PM
The yanks aren't taking Javy back, been there done that. Is Cano fast? He doesn't get many SBs, which is what I'd figure KW is after. It will be interesting to see if Poreda is moved. With Buehrle and Danks locked in, and the promise of Richard, that's a lot of lefty starting pitchers.

You're right, the Yanks wouldn't take back Vazquez but don't rule out the possibility of a three-way trade (i.e., Vazquez to a third team for player or players who, in turn, are dealt for Cano). I don't know if that is likely or even possible but I'm sure that KW will explore all sorts of possible upgrades.

It's true that Cano has not stolen a lot of bases but he is young second baseman with a lot of upside. I suspect that he would excel with a change of scenery.