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1908<2005
10-02-2008, 05:49 PM
So are we really 1-12 in domes this year?

Pear-Zin-Ski
10-02-2008, 05:50 PM
Should've been a win guys...Tampa does NOT scare me at all....

Bulls_Fan
10-02-2008, 05:50 PM
We have no one else to blame for this game. We give ourselves a nice lead...we blow it. We have the bases loaded and 1 out...we blow it.

You live and die off the homer. Today, we died.

Great outing by Richard.

salty99
10-02-2008, 05:50 PM
Who cares if they scare YOU or not, we still lost.

turners56
10-02-2008, 05:50 PM
Javier Vazquez = epic failure.

'Nuff said.

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 05:50 PM
It was just as easily winnable for the Rays.

We gotta go get them tomorrow. When we don't get more then one inning of runs that is usually not good especially when Javy is our pitcher.

DaveFeelsRight
10-02-2008, 05:51 PM
i dont want to see griffey in the line up tomorrow. pathetic performance today.

cleanwsox
10-02-2008, 05:51 PM
Well, let's see if they can beat us when we throw a real pitcher out there.

**** you Javy!

turners56
10-02-2008, 05:51 PM
Should've been a win guys...Tampa does NOT scare me at all....

Grant Balfour does. So does J.P. Howell. Evan Longoria too. Everybody else is pretty ordinary.

kidmccarthy
10-02-2008, 05:51 PM
Im actually not even mad. I guess 05 did something to me...:smile:
Anyway, Javy lost us the game, pure and simple. What a dumbass.
Mark needs to be our stopper, and it would be nice for Thome or Jr. to do something. 1 of 2 in Tampa and we are okay.

munchman33
10-02-2008, 05:51 PM
Kazmir tomorrow?

Unless there's another miracle collapse by the other team, we're pretty ****ed.

ozzman
10-02-2008, 05:51 PM
forget about it and win tomorrow.

MCHSoxFan
10-02-2008, 05:51 PM
Should've been a win guys...Tampa does NOT scare me at all....

EXACTLY!!! SAME HERE!!! I knew this would be the hardest game for us. I say we win tomorrow cause of Buhrle and then we win the next 2 cause they are at home. WE CAN EASILY DO THIS!!!!

The Immigrant
10-02-2008, 05:51 PM
So are we really 1-12 in domes this year?

We are now 4-16. 3 wins in Tampa and 1 in Minnesota this year.

salty99
10-02-2008, 05:51 PM
So are we really 1-12 in domes this year?


No.

TDog
10-02-2008, 05:51 PM
So are we really 1-12 in domes this year?

The Sox won two of three in their first trip to St. Petersburg.

Rockabilly
10-02-2008, 05:51 PM
**** YOU JAVY & OC

Can't wait for you two bums to leave the Sox next season

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 05:51 PM
i dont want to see griffey in the line up
tomorrow. pathetic performance today.

He looks disgusting at the plate. BA looked better and he struck out.

But at least he swings and strikes out unlike swish who just watches it go right down the middle.

guillensdisciple
10-02-2008, 05:52 PM
Ehhh, winnable but **** happens. Javy is a mistake. He shouldn't play in the major leagues. 4 runs isn't bad for the playoffs, Buerhle will show up tomorrow... the sox will put them down!

gf2020
10-02-2008, 05:52 PM
So are we really 1-12 in domes this year?
Considering we won two games in Tampa in April, I'm going to go with a no.

Boondock Saint
10-02-2008, 05:52 PM
Don't let the score fool you, that was a 6-4 blowout. 2 HR's, one of which (of course) comes in garbage time. Outside that and Richard, we blew. They'd better do something different tomorrow.

Rockabilly
10-02-2008, 05:52 PM
We will beat the Rays in 5 games...

russ99
10-02-2008, 05:52 PM
So are we really 1-12 in domes this year?

Greg Walker career watch?

Man we looked awful with runners on today. That's gotta change or this will be a short postseason.

Javy didn't help things either. Hopefully we won't see him until the ALCS, if we make it that far.

The worst part is that the Rays look pretty beatable.

WhiteSox5187
10-02-2008, 05:52 PM
Big Game Javy. That's all I can say. I never want to see him pitch in the playoffs again. Horse**** effort by Javy tonight. We shoulda won that game, shoulda gotten at least one in the seventh, but OC didn't help us at all. Oh well. We need to win tomorrow and I think Buerhle can come through for us.

Chicago5oooh
10-02-2008, 05:52 PM
I want Javy out of town ASAP.

I'd take a ham sandwich for him at this point.

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 05:52 PM
**** YOU JAVY & OC

Can't wait for you two bums to leave the Sox next season

Where is Javy going to go? Charlotte?

You wanna pay for him to go?

Javy is a great 5th starter, he would be the best in baseball.

munchman33
10-02-2008, 05:52 PM
Ehhh, winnable but **** happens. Javy is a mistake. He shouldn't play in the major leagues. 4 runs isn't bad for the playoffs, Buerhle will show up tomorrow... the sox will put them down!

In a five game series, one mistake ends your season.

jshanahanjr
10-02-2008, 05:52 PM
I'm a big Uribe fan, but why didn't Oz pinch hit Swish for him with the bases juiced? You can't worry about Fields D when your chasing 3.

XplodingScorbord
10-02-2008, 05:52 PM
Can't blame Wise for this one. ****ing Javy.:angry:

SoxFan78
10-02-2008, 05:53 PM
Well hopefully that was Javy's last start of the post season. Not too worried, just a bad game played thats all. Sox play their game, they will win easily tomorrow.

Look forward to seeing Swish in the lineup tomorrow, even though Wise provided the only offense of the game.

Bases loaded, one out, no runs? Next time OC, keep your mouth shut and hit the ball. Can't wait to see you off of our White Sox.

PeoriaSoxFan
10-02-2008, 05:53 PM
So are we really 1-12 in domes this year?
No.

RedHeadPaleHoser
10-02-2008, 05:53 PM
Javy......why oh why.....

But, Javy doesn't leave the bases loaded and jaw at a pitcher...right Orlando?

Get your heads out of your asses and play baseball tomorrow. Otherwise, Javy will be on his beach as soon as he wanted to be.

rustysurf83
10-02-2008, 05:53 PM
Javy is a piece of **** ****ing loser. Never again, please. 3-16 from Thome, Dye, Griff, and PK isn't going to get it done. **** take out Paulie and that is 1-12.

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 05:53 PM
Big Game Javy. That's all I can say. I never want to see him pitch in the playoffs again. Horse**** effort by Javy tonight. We shoulda won that game, shoulda gotten at least one in the seventh, but OC didn't help us at all. Oh well. We need to win tomorrow and I think Buerhle can come through for us.

Everyone is pissed at OC.

Um who had the bases loaded and one out?

Yeah someone yell at Juan please.

Pear-Zin-Ski
10-02-2008, 05:53 PM
Typical 2008 White Sox offense...the bullpen looked strong...Javy was Javy...we had MANY opportunites to win as did the Rays to put it away which they didn't at all...the game was in reach up until that last flyout from AJ....

Wheeler didn't look amazing...keep it close and get to em White Sox!

munchman33
10-02-2008, 05:53 PM
Javy is a great 5th starter, he would be the best in baseball.

He lost 16 games this year. He had an ERA close to 5. He would not be a good fifth starter with those numbers.

salty99
10-02-2008, 05:53 PM
No surprise to me that Javy **** the bed again.

Hitmen77
10-02-2008, 05:53 PM
Typical White Sox game vs. a good team.

I'm not surprised Javy let us down. We just have to hope Buehrle, Danks, and Floyd deliver the next 3 games like they did their last 3 games.

turners56
10-02-2008, 05:54 PM
Im actually not even mad. I guess 05 did something to me...:smile:
Anyway, Javy lost us the game, pure and simple. What a dumbass.
Mark needs to be our stopper, and it would be nice for Thome or Jr. to do something. 1 of 2 in Tampa and we are okay.

I wasn't very pissed about this game either. I didn't think we were going to win with Vazquez out there.

Rockabilly
10-02-2008, 05:54 PM
Where is Javy going to go? Charlotte?

You wanna pay for him to go?

Javy is a great 5th starter, he would be the best in baseball.


Trade his ass and half of his salary to another team... This guy has NO HEART

Optipessimism
10-02-2008, 05:54 PM
I never ever want to see Javier Vazquez again. Never. Ever. Ever.

Kudos to Ozzie for that great hit and run, and kudos for realizing that Javy is ALWAYS at his worst the third time through the lineup and removing him after the fourth. Oh wait...

DumpJerry
10-02-2008, 05:54 PM
Kazmir tomorrow?

Unless there's another miracle collapse by the other team, we're pretty ****ed.
Kazmir has been struggling lately.

jabrch
10-02-2008, 05:54 PM
i dont want to see griffey in the line up tomorrow. pathetic performance today.

In the 3 straight elimination games, Jr. was 4-8 with 2 doubles. I'm just saying...

Craig Grebeck
10-02-2008, 05:54 PM
It is what it is. It was far and away our least favorable matchup of the series. I'm confident we can win two out of the next three.

Let's not **** ourselves...

RockJock07
10-02-2008, 05:54 PM
Hopefully we have seen the last game Javy will start this postseason. Even with his **** start this was a winnable game. OC is a dumbass, I can't wait till he's gone, I'm not sure what the hell he is doing. Thome and Griffey were a non-factor today.

I liked how Ozzie was loose today, made the team look more relaxed, I'm actually kind of confident heading into game 2, call me crazy but I really am.

LongLiveFisk
10-02-2008, 05:54 PM
I didn't have a ton of confidence today, mainly because Javy has been so bad lately. I do have confidence in Game 2 though. I believe in Buehrle, but the offense can't be leaving guys in scoring position.

Let's hope Game 2 sees a better outcome so the Sox can come home to a frenzied BLACKOUT again. :smile:

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 05:54 PM
What's worse

1) Bases loaded, one out and striking out

or

2) Bases loaded two outs and striking out while jawing with the pitcher

Both suck.

Blame Juan and OC accordingly, not just one.

Blueprint1
10-02-2008, 05:55 PM
The game was over when we had the bases loaded with one out in the 7th and didn't score a run. You score a few runs there and it's a whole new ballgame.

DaveFeelsRight
10-02-2008, 05:55 PM
swish and anderson better be in the line up tomorrow

Rockabilly
10-02-2008, 05:55 PM
I hope we add a lot of speed to this team next year...

munchman33
10-02-2008, 05:55 PM
Kazmir has been struggling lately.

I have a feeling I know what can cure him...

Seriously, Mark needs to really come to play tomorrow. One run will likely be the difference between staying in the series or not.

rustysurf83
10-02-2008, 05:55 PM
Everyone is pissed at OC.

Um who had the bases loaded and one out?

Yeah someone yell at Juan please.

The difference is Juan wasn't talking **** and, admit it, probably is not a MLB starter; he is a super sub starting for a guy on the DL. That being said he should've gotten at least one.

jabrch
10-02-2008, 05:55 PM
Here comes the crappy bitch thread...

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 05:55 PM
swish and anderson better be in the line up tomorrow

Wise hit a HR?

No love for Dewayne?

Craig Grebeck
10-02-2008, 05:55 PM
For the record, Javy will still be back next season. I'm not sure why people can't comprehend this. He'll be a FA after 2010 and may (read: will) garner Type A status. No need creating another hole by selling low.

VeeckAsInWreck
10-02-2008, 05:55 PM
Kazmir tomorrow?

Unless there's another miracle collapse by the other team, we're pretty ****ed.

Nonsense. The Rays have to face Buehrle and not Javy again. Besides the Rays aren't that good against lefties. So I think we have a really good shot in the next game.

turners56
10-02-2008, 05:55 PM
Kazmir has been struggling lately.

He usually starts falling off a little bit after he has a lot of innings under his belt.

WhiteSox5187
10-02-2008, 05:55 PM
Everyone is pissed at OC.

Um who had the bases loaded and one out?

Yeah someone yell at Juan please.
Juan just missed extra bases apparently...but really, who gave up all of those runs? Uh, that would be Mr. Big Game. Send him to ****ing Pittsburgh.

DaveFeelsRight
10-02-2008, 05:56 PM
I have a feeling I know what can cure him...

Seriously, Mark needs to really come to play tomorrow. One run will likely be the difference between staying in the series or not.his era has gone up every month since may

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 05:56 PM
The difference is Juan wasn't talking **** and, admit it, probably is not a MLB starter; he is a super sub starting for a guy on the DL. That being said he should've gotten at least one.

Who cares both had jobs and failed. They both sucked at that point.

WhiteSox5187
10-02-2008, 05:56 PM
For the record, Javy will still be back next season. I'm not sure why people can't comprehend this. He'll be a FA after next season and may (read: will) garner Type A status. No need creating another hole by selling low.
Yea, Javy has created a pretty big hole on his own right now.

guillensdisciple
10-02-2008, 05:56 PM
Im actually not even mad. I guess 05 did something to me...:smile:
Anyway, Javy lost us the game, pure and simple. What a dumbass.
Mark needs to be our stopper, and it would be nice for Thome or Jr. to do something. 1 of 2 in Tampa and we are okay.


I am not mad either... I blame it all on '05... I still believe in this team but I am being realistic... if the Sox go to the world series that will be amazing. I just expect a well fought series and whoever wins wins. They are both good enough to advance. Whoever makes less mistakes, pitches better (today we didn't because Javy is a ****ing piece of ****), and gets some clutch hits (failed to do that today) wins.

Set up for every game in baseball, sorry for stating the obvious, but the sox failed to do two of three today. Tomorrow they need to take two of three and they win.

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 05:56 PM
Juan just missed extra bases apparently...but really, who gave up all of those runs? Uh, that would be Mr. Big Game. Send him to ****ing Pittsburgh.

And Javy just missed getting out of the big inning if there was actual grass on a baseball field.

VeeckAsInWreck
10-02-2008, 05:57 PM
swish and anderson better be in the line up tomorrow

Stoney said during the game that Swish would be starting tomorrow. Who knows about Anderson.

Hitmen77
10-02-2008, 05:57 PM
For the record, Javy will still be back next season. I'm not sure why people can't comprehend this. He'll be a FA after next season and may (read: will) garner Type A status. No need creating another hole by selling low.

I thought he was a FA after 2010.

jshanahanjr
10-02-2008, 05:57 PM
Good pitcher from April-August. Skip him in September and Soxtober.

Pear-Zin-Ski
10-02-2008, 05:57 PM
Ehhh, winnable but **** happens. Javy is a mistake. He shouldn't play in the major leagues. 4 runs isn't bad for the playoffs, Buerhle will show up tomorrow... the sox will put them down!

Bingo...I have enough faith the Sox can win a game by scoring 4 runs....

Mohoney
10-02-2008, 05:57 PM
Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Buehrle. Rested bullpen. We'll win 3 out of 4.

rustysurf83
10-02-2008, 05:57 PM
Who cares both had jobs and failed. They both sucked at that point.
Yes and OC amplified his suck factor exponentially by not only failing, but striking out.

turners56
10-02-2008, 05:57 PM
And Javy just missed getting out of the big inning if there was actual grass on a baseball field.

True that. Artificial turf sucks. Harold Reynolds hates it too apparently and he played on it in Seattle.

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 05:57 PM
Well we could be the Cubs or Halos and be in a real whole.

DaveFeelsRight
10-02-2008, 05:58 PM
Stoney said during the game that Swish would be starting tomorrow. Who knows about Anderson.LF or CF by any chance?

hi im skot
10-02-2008, 05:58 PM
Vazquez pitched himself off the team today. This is a victory for us.

Hate to lose this game today, but they showed that Tampa Bay isn't unstoppable.

Win tomorrow and come back home to take the series.

munchman33
10-02-2008, 05:58 PM
Nonsense. The Rays have to face Buehrle and not Javy again. Besides the Rays aren't that good against lefties. So I think we have a really good shot in the next game.

Mark has a 4.58 era against them this season in three starts.

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 05:58 PM
Yes and OC amplified his suck factor exponentially by not only failing, but striking out.

Juan struck out too buddy.

Damn, some people cannot see here.

Frontman
10-02-2008, 05:58 PM
I'll be glad to see Javy moved/pushed WAY down the rotation in the future.

Javy=Bad.

Everyone could of done better, but Javy didn't locate squat.

Get 'em tomorrow.

DeadMoney
10-02-2008, 05:58 PM
Im actually not even mad. I guess 05 did something to me...:smile:
Anyway, Javy lost us the game, pure and simple. What a dumbass.
Mark needs to be our stopper, and it would be nice for Thome or Jr. to do something. 1 of 2 in Tampa and we are okay.

I agree on all accounts. Even the thing about not even being mad.

To me, it's as simple as this:
Oh well, go get 'em tomorrow.

Konerko05
10-02-2008, 05:59 PM
Vazquez receives a 2 run lead early in the game, and immediately gives it right back. That was the ballgame right there.

If Cabrera is going to be kicking dirt and yelling at the pitcher it would be nice if he could have at least made contact. It might have been cool if he hit a bases clearing double. Instead he gets blown away with a fastball giving the Rays even more momentum.

Griffey swing looks extremely lazy. He works the count, but he can't hit the ball with any authority.

It's sad when Dewayne Wise basically accounts for all the offense.

Only good news is, they had to use their top relievers today. Kazmir usually goes about 6 innings. Maybe they will be a little tired tomorrow. Or maybe I'm just grasping for straws here.

We still have a chance to steal one tomorrow. Let's go Buehrle.

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 05:59 PM
Mark has a 4.58 era against them this season in three starts.

Danks had what a 6.00+ ERA versus the Twins this season.

'Nough said.

The Immigrant
10-02-2008, 05:59 PM
He'll be a FA after 2010 and may (read: will) garner Type A status. No need creating another hole by selling low.

We have two more years of Big Game Javy all to ourselves.

turners56
10-02-2008, 05:59 PM
Mark has a 4.58 era against them this season in three starts.

That equates to about 3 runs in 6 innings. We might of won this game with that performance today.

rustysurf83
10-02-2008, 05:59 PM
Juan struck out too buddy.

Damn, some people cannot see here.
Thats why I said "yes" they both sucked, at least Juan didn't talk ****....Damn some people here can't ****ing read.

Pear-Zin-Ski
10-02-2008, 05:59 PM
btw...what the heck was Oz thinking sending AJ on a hit and run (???) on a 0-1 count?????????????????????

nasox
10-02-2008, 06:00 PM
And Javy just missed getting out of the big inning if there was actual grass on a baseball field.


Yeah, that's key. At least two double play balls turned into hits, if not three balls. I hate astroturf.

Blueprint1
10-02-2008, 06:00 PM
If we can win tomorrow we have accomplished our goal.

munchman33
10-02-2008, 06:00 PM
Danks had what a 6.00+ ERA versus the Twins this season.

'Nough said.

All at the dome.

VeeckAsInWreck
10-02-2008, 06:00 PM
LF or CF by any chance?

Stoney said that Swish would be starting in LF in place of Wise. However I wouldn't be opposed to BA starting in place of Griffey.

RockJock07
10-02-2008, 06:00 PM
Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Buehrle. Rested bullpen. We'll win 3 out of 4.

Going to be tough but I'll feel even more confident when we win tomorrows game.

kruzer31
10-02-2008, 06:00 PM
Enough with the F bombs toward Javy. He is here for 2 more years. Support the guy. We are in the playoffs while losing Crede and Quentin and Paulie and Jenks missed considerable time and dont forget about Contreras. We lost. Big Deal. We can win tomorrow and tie it up. Yes I am dissapointed, but this is a series, not a one and done. Lets just get it goin tomorrow. If not, we always have 05.

J

turners56
10-02-2008, 06:00 PM
All at the dome.

No. Two of them were at home. One of them was his worst outing of the year.

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 06:01 PM
Thats why I said "yes" they both sucked, at least Juan didn't talk ****....Damn some people here can't ****ing read.

You said, "Yes and OC amplified his suck factor exponentially by not only failing, but striking out."

Juan failed and struck out too. I am confused on what you are trying to say.

Chicken Dinner
10-02-2008, 06:01 PM
Javier Vazquez rhp
3 years/$34.5M (2008-10)


signed extension 3/07
08:$11.5M, 09:$11.5M, 10:$11.5M

Optipessimism
10-02-2008, 06:01 PM
Trade his ass and half of his salary to another team... This guy has NO HEART
Javy would bring a good haul in a trade because he strikes people out and has the stuff to trick GM's into giving up a lot for him.

Please Kenny, dump this piece of dog****. I can deal with any of our three other starters having a bad game since they've pitched their hearts out to get us here, but not Javy the dog who ate a bunch of Ozzie's chocolate I Love Yous and then proceeded to drag his ****ty ass up and down the carpet throughout the month of September and into the playoffs. **** you Javy and I hope that if the Sox can come back and win this series you end up off the playoff roster completely and back home in Puerto Rico for the rest of your Sox career.

**** you Javy Vazquez

**** you Javy Vazquez

**** you Javy Vazquez

Craig Grebeck
10-02-2008, 06:01 PM
If we bring in another arm and make Javy the fifth starter, he'd easily be the best number five in the game.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/how-good-is-your-4-starter/

I often reference this article (^^^^^), and I think it says a lot about the misconceptions around the league about what a fifth starter should be. If Javy puts up another 200 innings with league average numbers, he'd be a success in the five hole.

rustysurf83
10-02-2008, 06:01 PM
If we can win tomorrow we have accomplished our goal.
Agree going to Chicago even puts us at an advantage.

turners56
10-02-2008, 06:01 PM
Enough with the F bombs toward Javy. He is here for 2 more years. Support the guy. We are in the playoffs while losing Crede and Quentin and Paulie and Jenks missed considerable time and dont forget about Contreras. We lost. Big Deal. We can win tomorrow and tie it up. Yes I am dissapointed, but this is a series, not a one and done. Lets just get it goin tomorrow. If not, we always have 05.

J

**** no. Javy needs to get the **** out if we ever plan to win. He's getting top starter money to be mediocre. That's bull****.

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 06:01 PM
No. Two of them were at home. One of them was his worst outing of the year.

People do not understand facts here sometimes. It's very annoying.

BTW this thread is great right now. Can't help but laugh.

hi im skot
10-02-2008, 06:01 PM
Enough with the F bombs toward Javy. He is here for 2 more years. Support the guy. We are in the playoffs while losing Crede and Quentin and Paulie and Jenks missed considerable time and dont forget about Contreras. We lost. Big Deal. We can win tomorrow and tie it up. Yes I am dissapointed, but this is a series, not a one and done. Lets just get it goin tomorrow. If not, we always have 05.

J

Vazquez can sit on it. Dude's a tool.

Pear-Zin-Ski
10-02-2008, 06:02 PM
Wise hit a HR?

No love for Dewayne?

Thanks for the offense...but thank the lord that dropped ball in the second didnt come back to haunt you!

guillensdisciple
10-02-2008, 06:02 PM
BUERHLE IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PITCHER NOW!!!

Stop with the ERA, now he is on fire and in the playoffs he will be on lock.


If he isn't wrap up the series and envision glory next year. Simple as that.

kruzer31
10-02-2008, 06:02 PM
Javy would bring a good haul in a trade because he strikes people out and has the stuff to trick GM's into giving up a lot for him.

Please Kenny, dump this piece of dog****. I can deal with any of our three other starters having a bad game since they've pitched their hearts out to get us here, but not Javy the dog who ate a bunch of Ozzie's chocolate I Love Yous and then proceeded to drag his ****ty ass up and down the carpet throughout the month of September and into the playoffs. **** you Javy and I hope that if the Sox can come back and win this series you end up off the playoff roster completely and back home in Puerto Rico for the rest of your Sox career.

**** you Javy Vazquez

**** you Javy Vazquez

**** you Javy Vazquez


Real Mature

Craig Grebeck
10-02-2008, 06:02 PM
Javy would bring a good haul in a trade because he strikes people out and has the stuff to trick GM's into giving up a lot for him.

Please Kenny, dump this piece of dog****. I can deal with any of our three other starters having a bad game since they've pitched their hearts out to get us here, but not Javy the dog who ate a bunch of Ozzie's chocolate I Love Yous and then proceeded to drag his ****ty ass up and down the carpet throughout the month of September and into the playoffs. **** you Javy and I hope that if the Sox can come back and win this series you end up off the playoff roster completely and back home in Puerto Rico for the rest of your Sox career.

**** you Javy Vazquez

**** you Javy Vazquez

**** you Javy Vazquez
You will miss him when he is gone.

Have we forgotten the market for pitching?

Selling low = death!

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 06:03 PM
Thanks for the offense...but thank the lord that dropped ball in the second didnt come back to haunt you!

I don't think he ever saw the ball. Can you really blame him?

Craig Grebeck
10-02-2008, 06:03 PM
Vazquez can sit on it. Dude's a tool.
Seriously? Are you 12?

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 06:03 PM
You will miss him when he is gone.

Have we forgotten the market for pitching?

Selling low = death!

Arnie Munoz was too. Jon Rauch was great.

Some of the great 5th starters in recent years for the Sox.

rustysurf83
10-02-2008, 06:03 PM
You said, "Yes and OC amplified his suck factor exponentially by not only failing, but striking out."

Juan failed and struck out too. I am confused on what you are trying to say.
I am trying to say it looks a lot worse when you are lauded as a premier offseason aquisition with post season experience, talk **** to the pitcher, and get your ass handed to you as opposed to merely failing. Who looks worse the guy that really shouldn't be there (Juan) and fails, or the guy who was picked up for this exact point in the season and fails?

Optipessimism
10-02-2008, 06:03 PM
Javier Vazquez rhp
3 years/$34.5M (2008-10)


signed extension 3/07
08:$11.5M, 09:$11.5M, 10:$11.5M


Kyle ****ing Lohse makes more than that. Moving Javy will be easy so long as our GM realizes his mistake and gets that flaming sack of **** off of our front porches for good.

getonbckthr
10-02-2008, 06:03 PM
I'm making 1 post and that is all. Javy Vazquez come back when your balls drop please. Ozzie I understand in 05 you rode the 4 horsemen of thee apocolypse unfortunately this season 1 of the 4 is as useful as a one-legged man in an ass kicking contest. Urgency needs to be shown especially when the ball-less wonder is on the mound.

hi im skot
10-02-2008, 06:04 PM
Seriously? Are you 12?

Seriously.

Vazquez can't get it done, and has managed to do and say all the wrong things in the past couple weeks.

kitekrazy
10-02-2008, 06:04 PM
Javy would bring a good haul in a trade because he strikes people out and has the stuff to trick GM's into giving up a lot for him.


Well he tricked one GM.

Lip Man 1
10-02-2008, 06:04 PM
This was a winnable game by any account.

Really though this isn't anything we haven't seen before.

Vazquez strikes out a lot of guys, yet gets hit from pillar to post and get can't out of the middle innings.

If the Sox don't hit a home run they can't score, period.

Had a chance with the bases loaded and did nothing, with Cabrera embarrassing himself again.

Try again tomorrow, I guess.

----------

And kids when you are already down a starting pitcher because Contreras is finished, you aren't going to compound your need by dealing another one, even if he is a head case most of the time.

He'll be here next season, like it or not...the Sox aren't about to go out and get two or three new starting pitchers.

Lip

Craig Grebeck
10-02-2008, 06:05 PM
Seriously.

Vazquez can't get it done, and has managed to do and say all the wrong things in the past couple weeks.
So you use a seventh grade insult?

turners56
10-02-2008, 06:05 PM
Kyle ****ing Lohse makes more than that. Moving Javy will be easy so long as our GM realizes his mistake and gets that flaming sack of **** off of our front porches for good.

Kenny loves Javy too much unfortunately.

Frontman
10-02-2008, 06:05 PM
Enough with the F bombs toward Javy. He is here for 2 more years. Support the guy. We are in the playoffs while losing Crede and Quentin and Paulie and Jenks missed considerable time and dont forget about Contreras. We lost. Big Deal. We can win tomorrow and tie it up. Yes I am dissapointed, but this is a series, not a one and done. Lets just get it goin tomorrow. If not, we always have 05.

J

Sorry, ain't going to happen. Javy gets paid major league scratch for minor league clutch?

I don't care that he strikes people out. Its the two bloops and a blast per strike out that's the stat that bugs me. He could of kept this team in the game, then goes and wets the bed.....again.

If someone out there is dumb enough to take him; more power to them. But if he's staying, he's 4th or 5th in the rotation MAX. I'll take my chances with either of the kids over him.

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 06:05 PM
I am trying to say it looks a lot worse when you are lauded as a premier offseason aquisition with post season experience, talk **** to the pitcher, and get your ass handed to you as opposed to merely failing. Who looks worse the guy that really shouldn't be there (Juan) and fails, or the guy who was picked up for this exact point in the season and fails?

I agree. But you did not type that and post that. I am not a psychic and I cannot assume what you are thinking through a computer.

rustysurf83
10-02-2008, 06:05 PM
If we bring in another arm and make Javy the fifth starter, he'd easily be the best number five in the game.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/how-good-is-your-4-starter/

I often reference this article (^^^^^), and I think it says a lot about the misconceptions around the league about what a fifth starter should be. If Javy puts up another 200 innings with league average numbers, he'd be a success in the five hole.

I envision a reasonable fifth starter as someone that can give you a chance...Javy does give us a chance in games that don't count. So, he would be a decent five.

PeoriaSoxFan
10-02-2008, 06:05 PM
Overall, TB obviously deserved to win as they played better and scored more runs. Javy was his usual self...unhittable at times, but so hittable at others. How do you give up 2 HRs to the same guy, with nobody on either time? He never should have come out for the 5th, but I can't blame Ozzie for that. I would have probably run him out there again as well. Clayton Richard did an overall good job and I am excited about his future.

Missed opportunities...

Javy immediately giving up 3 runs after we take the lead

Not being able to keep the game a 1 run game...Nice 5th Javy...

The 7th inning, we have bases loaded and 1 out.. and can't score as usual. Instead, we have 2 ks and 2 more ks to lead of the next inning. No matter what happens, we have to change the make up of this team and get some better mix of average (cut down on Ks) and power. You can't waste opportunities like that. Even 1 run would have been huge.

I think we have a chance in this series. What worries me is going against Kazmir tomorrow. I wish it would have worked out to have had MB pitch today, instead of tomorrow. Kazmir, we have never hit him. I honestly think that we didn't play that bad this game. Again, missed opportunities. I think we will hurt Wheeler if we see him again. We don't appear to fare well vs. Balfour or Howell, however.

Other observations:

Most Tampa Fans appear to be giant rednecks for the most part.

Mohawks haven't been cool since Mr. T. Matching socks would be hipper.

The Tampa stadium is the most tacky awful thing ever built. They honestly have pub tables set up in left field....really nice. I have one in my basement too.

Not only should that stadium be blown up/imploded, but the original architects should be tracked down and shot dead to ensure that no similar structure is ever built again. Honestly, that thing from top to bottom, is god awful ugly.

Dennis Eckersly is a redneck who could be a Tampa Fan. Hey, mullets are done. Take your hair cut and mustache back to the 70's.

Harold Reynolds is a solid announcer.

I am not giving up on this series, even if we lose tomorrow. Let's go ahead and win it though. We have a chance and I am excited about the future of this team. I have a feeling that Kenny will fix our holes and will be even better next year. Go Sox!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kitekrazy
10-02-2008, 06:05 PM
Seriously.

Vazquez can't get it done, and has managed to do and say all the wrong things in the past couple weeks.

Million dollar arm.
Ten cent brain.


Javier Crappez.

Craig Grebeck
10-02-2008, 06:05 PM
Arnie Munoz was too. Jon Rauch was great.

Some of the great 5th starters in recent years for the Sox.
Actually, Vazquez is fairly above average for a fourth starter. Keep throwing out horrible comparisons though.

soulfly
10-02-2008, 06:06 PM
I agree. Javy is utterly terrible. I don't want to see him pitch again till he grows a set and learns how to step up, like our other three starters have.

Dude sucks.

hi im skot
10-02-2008, 06:06 PM
So you use a seventh grade insult?

Dude, it's a 1950s insult.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

:cool:

Craig Grebeck
10-02-2008, 06:06 PM
I envision a reasonable fifth starter as someone that can give you a chance...Javy does give us a chance in games that don't count. So, he would be a decent five.
Subjective analysis! Woot!

rustysurf83
10-02-2008, 06:06 PM
I agree. But you did not type that and post that. I am not a psychic and I cannot assume what you are thinking through a computer.

Then I am sorry fine sir, it is the distortion of the communication medium...I think we all can agree, **** Javy he is not a playoff pitcher.

tstrike2000
10-02-2008, 06:06 PM
Same garbage, different day. Let's get the split tomorrow.

Pear-Zin-Ski
10-02-2008, 06:06 PM
I don't think he ever saw the ball. Can you really blame him?

As much as we can blame this loss on Javy I guess?

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 06:07 PM
Actually, Vazquez is fairly above average for a fourth starter. Keep throwing out horrible comparisons though.

Um, that was implied teal.

Javy is an unbelievable 5th starter if you don't look at salary. I am all with you CG.

And we have to live with him for two more years.

BadBobbyJenks
10-02-2008, 06:07 PM
Eh, it was Javy being Javy.

Awesome job by Clayton, maybe he should have started..

I like our chances with two lefties the next two.

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 06:07 PM
Then I am sorry fine sir, it is the distortion of the communication medium...I think we all can agree, **** Javy he is not a playoff pitcher.

Very true.

Boondock Saint
10-02-2008, 06:07 PM
So you use a seventh grade insult?

As opposed to a 40-year old insult? Who cares how he said it? Javy sucked yet again. He deserves to get ripped.

Craig Grebeck
10-02-2008, 06:08 PM
Um, that was implied teal.

Javy is an unbelievable 5th starter if you don't look at salary. I am all with you CG.

And we have to live with him for two more years.
Sorry.

Just frustrated with our knee-jerk fanbase. Can't see through all the **** that's posted in this thread.

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 06:08 PM
As opposed to a 40-year old insult? Who cares how he said it? Javy sucked yet again. He deserves to get ripped.

It's not like he is reading this. Out of all the Sox players that would read WSI Javy is very low on the list of probables.

Craig Grebeck
10-02-2008, 06:09 PM
As opposed to a 40-year old insult? Who cares how he said it? Javy sucked yet again. He deserves to get ripped.
I'd say there's plenty of ways to denigrate a guy's performance that would be more effective than, ahem:

**** you javy ur a tool!!!11 and you don't have balls

guillensdisciple
10-02-2008, 06:09 PM
million dollar arm.
Ten cent brain.


Javier crappez.


ahahahahhahahahaha


crappez


!!!!!!!!

turners56
10-02-2008, 06:09 PM
I was pretty pissed at our hitters' approach after Konerko hit the homer. They saw 12 pitches in that AB and none of them caught on to anything.

Wheeler will throw you a first pitch strike. That was a given to all the batters. If you read fastball, SWING. Second, why in the world were they trying to hit solo home runs? It was a 2 run ball game, you need freakin' men on base. Alexei kept on swing at that crap at his eyes. Wheeler threw him one strike in that entire at bat.

Griffey and A.J. both admired their medium depth fly balls. Unbelievable. Way to try and come back after a great AB by Konerko.

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 06:09 PM
Sorry.

Just frustrated with our knee-jerk fanbase. Can't see through all the **** that's posted in this thread.

Just smile when you read it. Some of the stuff is very humorous. Actual a lot of the stuff.

rustysurf83
10-02-2008, 06:09 PM
We could probably save a lot of bandwith by changing the thread title to "Yes, **** Javy, he sucks" Discuss other

Pear-Zin-Ski
10-02-2008, 06:09 PM
Million dollar arm.
Ten cent brain.


Javier Crappez.

Thank you for putting a smile on my face!

spiffie
10-02-2008, 06:10 PM
Javier Vazquez rhp
3 years/$34.5M (2008-10)


signed extension 3/07
08:$11.5M, 09:$11.5M, 10:$11.5M

No one really knows how long he is signed for. The media might be told a certain figure, but only the White Sox and Vazquez know how long his contract is. I would have thought Daver had pounded that into everyone's heads by now. No one knows anything about any contract except the team and player.

kitekrazy
10-02-2008, 06:10 PM
I envision a reasonable fifth starter as someone that can give you a chance...Javy does give us a chance in games that don't count. So, he would be a decent five.

Sounds like....

"Kansas City is the place your to be so the loaded up the truck and moved.........."

Boondock Saint
10-02-2008, 06:10 PM
It's not like he is reading this. Out of all the Sox players that would read WSI Javy is very low on the list of probables.

That's true, but it doesn't mean we should all just keep our mouths shut and eat that **** sandwich with a smile on our faces, either.

Sockinchisox
10-02-2008, 06:10 PM
Win tomorrow and we're in pretty good shape, Kazmir has been struggling lately and doesn't go deep into the game.

Craig Grebeck
10-02-2008, 06:11 PM
That's true, but it doesn't mean we should all just keep our mouths shut and eat that **** sandwich with a smile on our faces, either.
Which is exactly what I said.

hi im skot
10-02-2008, 06:11 PM
I'd say there's plenty of ways to denigrate a guy's performance that would be more effective than, ahem:

**** you javy ur a tool!!!11 and you don't have balls

There's nothing knee-jerk about this. I consider myself a pretty rational fan; I'm not going to let this game ruin the rest of my day, for example.

However, Vazquez has shown time and time again that he can't get it done. Sorry, but I don't want him on my team.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

EuroSox35
10-02-2008, 06:11 PM
Enough with the F bombs toward Javy. He is here for 2 more years. Support the guy..


**** him. How could anyone with any type of focus hang that pitch to Longaria? This was worse then his start in Minn. Oh wait, let's not be allowed to criticize any decision or person on the team, Rah Rah Rah, let's have a pep rally

TDog
10-02-2008, 06:12 PM
btw...what the heck was Oz thinking sending AJ on a hit and run (???) on a 0-1 count?????????????????????

The Rays didn't pitch out. In fact, Shields threw a strike. The reason a hit-and-run on an 0-1 pitch is considered low percentage is that there is a better chance the hitter won't be able to do anything with the pitch, i.e. face a pitchout or a waste-pitch high and outside. The count as it worked out was irrelevant. Either someone missed a sign or the hitter failed to execute.

Uribe matches up better against Balfour than Swisher, but Uribe didn't execute. I didn't like the sacrifice bunt with two on early in the game, but the Sox got the two-out hit anyway. I certainly can't blame Guillen for his moves today.

No matter who wins Game 1 in a best-of-five, Game 2 is critical. The Sox have their best pitcher going Friday who, along with Floyd and Danks coming off gutsy do-or-die wins, will fill out this series. I thought Vazquez could win today, but the Sox didn't get the big hits.

BoysMom3
10-02-2008, 06:12 PM
Dennis Eckersly is a redneck who could be a Tampa Fan. Hey, mullets are done. Take your hair cut and mustache back to the 70's.

Dude - your 'stache is trash!

I have high hopes for tomorrow and thought today's game was winnable.

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 06:12 PM
That's true, but it doesn't mean we should all just keep our mouths shut and eat that **** sandwich with a smile on our faces, either.

Everyone knows he sucks you are speaking to the choir here when you say he sucks. Lets discuss something new like why did Ozzie hit and run with an 0-1 count and AJ on first? Or why do we shut off the engines for 7-8 innings on offense? Or why do the Rays fans have flipping Cowbells? Why is artificial noise allowed in MLB parks or in sports in general? Or Clayton pitched awesome. Or why was the Rays stadium not sold out?

We know Javy sucks, everyone does. So stop bringing it up it will save you and me and everyone else a lot of time.

JB98
10-02-2008, 06:13 PM
The Rays have good pitching, and the Sox need to do a better job of capitalizing on scoring opportunities. You cannot load the bases with one out, get nothing and expect to win. That's what we did in the seventh. One or two runs there, and there is more pressure on Wheeler in the ninth.

I also thought our lack of infield depth hurt us. I would have liked to pinch-hit for Uribe in the seventh, but really, who do you turn to? We don't have anybody on the bench who is a better bet to make solid contact than Uribe himself. That's definitely a weakness for our Sox.

Let's good a good outing from Buehrle and get them tomorrow.

Bill Naharodny
10-02-2008, 06:13 PM
Actually, Vazquez is fairly above average for a fourth starter. Keep throwing out horrible comparisons though.

I think that you're missing something important here: it's hard to imagine world in which Javier Vazquez has the respect of his teammates. No matter what the comparisons to other 4th or 5th starters are (and one comparison that isn't good is $10 million per year), his continued involvement with this team, in that clubhouse, is a negative.

I guess what I'm saying is that Javy gives you even less than his lousy numbers.

rustysurf83
10-02-2008, 06:13 PM
Sounds like....

"Kansas City is the place your to be so the loaded up the truck and moved.........."

We are probably getting way too ahead of ourselves...but, I don't know if you can find a better five. A fifth starter would never even see the post season. Our top three are pretty solid, with the addition of a pitcher between the ability of the top three and Javy, this would probably be the premier staff in the league, but none of that matters for this season and who knows what the **** will happen next year.

nasox
10-02-2008, 06:14 PM
Javy is not a tool or douche or an ******* or anything else. He is simply a pitcher who consistently underacheives. He is who we think he is.

But tomorrow I think we'll have a great shot at a win. Tampa doesn't hit lefties well, it's the post season and MB is going and I think he'll be on fire. If we can play decent defense, put up a couple of runs early and then settle in, I think we'll be fine. The artificial turf does bother me, but we'll just have to deal with it.

I think we'll win tomorrow 3-1. I need to see much more from Jr. and Thome. Konerko came through today, and OC just proved why he has been on so many different teams through the years. He's a jerk. If you talk smack, back it up with your actions.

Outside of Balfour and Howell, Tampa's bullpen sucks. We can get to them.

Overall, if we win tomorrow and split these two away games, we have a great chance to win. Comiskey will be crazy like it was on Tuesday and the boys really feed off of that. And it will certainly rattle a young team like Tampa.

Yes, we wasted opportunities, but we are very much still in this. Let's get 'em tomorrow.

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 06:14 PM
The Rays have good pitching, and the Sox need to do a better job of capitalizing on scoring opportunities. You cannot load the bases with one out, get nothing and expect to win. That's what we did in the seventh. One or two runs there, and there is more pressure on Wheeler in the ninth.

I also thought our lack of infield depth hurt us. I would have liked to pinch-hit for Uribe in the seventh, but really, who do you turn to? We don't have anybody on the bench who is a better bet to make solid contact than Uribe himself. That's definitely a weakness for our Sox.

Let's good a good outing from Buehrle and get them tomorrow.

We have a winner.

MCHSoxFan
10-02-2008, 06:14 PM
Okay, I see all the posts about Javy/OC sucking and stuff. However, I just want to get this 1 question answered... We CAN win this series and win on the road tomorrow because of MB and the real MAIN reason why we lost today was because of Javy right? What I am saying is that we can do this and it was Javy our team does not suck and cannot beat the Rays. I do not feel like going through 200 posts of Javy sucks and OC is worse than Juan...no..they both suck. I just want a straight-forward answer to THIS question. THANKS!!!

Optipessimism
10-02-2008, 06:15 PM
I'd say there's plenty of ways to denigrate a guy's performance that would be more effective than, ahem:

**** you javy ur a tool!!!11 and you don't have balls
No, insults work just fine. Javy Vazquez is a spineless, ball-less, gutless, overrated piece of garbage. Pitching Javy in a big game is like taking a weedwhacker to a pile of elephant dung.

hi im skot
10-02-2008, 06:15 PM
Okay, I see all the posts about Javy/OC sucking and stuff. However, I just want to get this 1 question answered... We CAN win this series and win on the road tomorrow because of MB and the real MAIN reason why we lost today was because of Javy right? What I am saying is that we can do this and it was Javy our team does not suck and cannot beat the Rays. I do not feel like going through 200 posts of Javy sucks and OC is worse than Juan...no..they both suck. I just want a straight-forward answer to THIS question. THANKS!!!

Aren't you rooting for the Yankees now?

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 06:15 PM
Okay, I see all the posts about Javy/OC sucking and stuff. However, I just want to get this 1 question answered... We CAN win this series and win on the road tomorrow because of MB and the real MAIN reason why we lost today was because of Javy right? What I am saying is that we can do this and it was Javy our team does not suck and cannot beat the Rays. I do not feel like going through 200 posts of Javy sucks and OC is worse than Juan...no..they both suck. I just want a straight-forward answer to THIS question. THANKS!!!

Great post, but how can we answer a question when you pose no question to us?

MCHSoxFan
10-02-2008, 06:16 PM
Javy is not a tool or douche or an ******* or anything else. He is simply a pitcher who consistently underacheives. He is who we think he is.

But tomorrow I think we'll have a great shot at a win. Tampa doesn't hit lefties well, it's the post season and MB is going and I think he'll be on fire. If we can play decent defense, put up a couple of runs early and then settle in, I think we'll be fine. The artificial turf does bother me, but we'll just have to deal with it.

I think we'll win tomorrow 3-1. I need to see much more from Jr. and Thome. Konerko came through today, and OC just proved why he has been on so many different teams through the years. He's a jerk. If you talk smack, back it up with your actions.

Outside of Balfour and Howell, Tampa's bullpen sucks. We can get to them.

Overall, if we win tomorrow and split these two away games, we have a great chance to win. Comiskey will be crazy like it was on Tuesday and the boys really feed off of that. And it will certainly rattle a young team like Tampa.

Yes, we wasted opportunities, but we are very much still in this. Let's get 'em tomorrow.

WISH I SAW THIS BEFORE!!! I love this post! I agree 100%! Man, we tomorrow night, I will be just dying to get to my seat @ The Cell on Sunday/Monday!!!! YEEESSS!!!

MCHSoxFan
10-02-2008, 06:17 PM
Great post, but how can we answer a question when you pose no question to us?

THANKS!!! :smile: Sorry f I did not make it clear enough. Here is the question: We CAN win this series and win on the road tomorrow because of MB and the real MAIN reason why we lost today was because of Javy right? What I am saying is that we can do this and it was Javy our team does not suck and cannot beat the Rays.

BoysMom3
10-02-2008, 06:18 PM
Or why do the Rays fans have cowbells? Why is artificial noise allowed in MLB parks or in sports in general?

I was wondering the same thing. How very annoying and unfair.

shingo10
10-02-2008, 06:18 PM
A very tough loss but I'm hoping after 4 straight losses in TB we're due to have things go our way tomorrow. Then we can black them out at the Cell and call it a series.

Come on Buehrle!

EuroSox35
10-02-2008, 06:18 PM
The Sox could've scored 8, Vazquez would've given up 9, that's the type of pitcher he is.

3-4 runs isn't a lot but when you're in the playoffs, against a guy with a 2 ERA at home, that's how you have to win

Boondock Saint
10-02-2008, 06:18 PM
Everyone knows he sucks you are speaking to the choir here when you say he sucks. Lets discuss something new like why did Ozzie hit and run with an 0-1 count and AJ on first? Or why do we shut off the engines for 7-8 innings on offense? Or why do the Rays fans have flipping Cowbells? Why is artificial noise allowed in MLB parks or in sports in general? Or Clayton pitched awesome. Or why was the Rays stadium not sold out?

We know Javy sucks, everyone does. So stop bringing it up it will save you and me and everyone else a lot of time.

I thought the hit and run was a good call. OC not hitting the pitch was the problem.

The offense didn't "shut off the engines", that implies that the bad innings were the exception, not the rule. We turned them on for one.

I didn't like the cowbells, either, but these guys are professionals. If cowbells (or a blackout, for that matter) distract you, you need to get your **** together.

Richard was awesome. I have far more confidence in him than I do Javy right now.

They didn't sell out because nobody in Florida cares about baseball.

chisoxfanatic
10-02-2008, 06:19 PM
I don't want Javy pitching any more, even if we advance past this round. Put him in the bullpen and go with a 3-man rotation if you have to. What a horsecrap performance by him. You give him a lead and he gives it right back. If we had a 10-run lead, he'd have found a way to give that up too.

Thankfully Buehrle is starting tomorrow and Kazmir's looked human the past few weeks.

rustysurf83
10-02-2008, 06:19 PM
Great post, but how can we answer a question when you pose no question to us?

I think the question was, did we lose because of Javy today? and what does that mean for the rest of the playoffs? yes, but we have three pretty good pitchers (albeit two with no post season experience) that put us in a very winnable situation nearly every time they pitch. Its not quite the apocalypse...yet, tommorrow it could look like WWIII in here.

guillensdisciple
10-02-2008, 06:19 PM
We are probably getting way too ahead of ourselves...but, I don't know if you can find a better five. A fifth starter would never even see the post season. Our top three are pretty solid, with the addition of a pitcher between the ability of the top three and Javy, this would probably be the premier staff in the league, but none of that matters for this season and who knows what the **** will happen next year.

In terms of starting pitching... probably nothing. Expect the top three to stay and become better, Clayton Richard might become the fourth or stick in the bullpen. Javy will be a fifth, there is no way Ozzie will reward him for what he has done. The Sox will probably get a decent fourth starter, the money they will spend in the off season will probably go to Orlando Hudson so a stud ala Ben Sheets is probably out of the question. Even though Ben Sheets does sound quite tempting, even with his string of injuries.

I see the White Sox as the best team in the American League next year. Their hitting will be phenomenal with a full year by CQ and Alexei. We will keep the core and probably pick up a speedy lead off. A 1 2 punch of someone good (Chone Figgins PLEASE) and Hudson leading to Quentin, JD, PK and or Thome(I expect one of them to be traded for a Figgins-esque player), Ramirez, Pierzynski, Swisher will be pretty formidable.


However, I am not looking at next year already, I believe the Sox have a chance of winning this series, and after a chance to go all the way.


Finish the fight!

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 06:20 PM
I didn't like the cowbells, either, but these guys are professionals. If cowbells (or a blackout, for that matter) distract you, you need to get your **** together.

I don't think it distracts players but if you as a fanbase need to resort to artificial noise to rock your stadium that is sad.

But if you cannot get fans in your stadium that is sad too.

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 06:22 PM
I think the question was, did we lose because of Javy today? and what does that mean for the rest of the playoffs? yes, but we have three pretty good pitchers (albeit two with no post season experience) that put us in a very winnable situation nearly every time they pitch. Its not quite the apocalypse...yet, tommorrow it could look like WWIII in here.

It would not be WWIII in here. I think we went through III, IV, and V in here last week from Tuesday through Thursday.

MCHSoxFan
10-02-2008, 06:22 PM
I think the question was, did we lose because of Javy today? and what does that mean for the rest of the playoffs? yes, but we have three pretty good pitchers (albeit two with no post season experience) that put us in a very winnable situation nearly every time they pitch. Its not quite the apocalypse...yet, tommorrow it could look like WWIII in here.

EXACTLY! Thanks. yeah, you got the question right lol. :smile:

EuroSox35
10-02-2008, 06:22 PM
Did it annoy anyone else to see Ozzie before the game doing his comedy hour routine to the Rays during BP? I mean, we're supposed to be banking on them being nervous and there he is making the atmosphere loose for them.

Let's not forget the props for Richard. Hawk's (and other posters who did ask for him too, have to give them their due) proposal didn't sound so bad now...

rustysurf83
10-02-2008, 06:22 PM
I don't think it distracts players but if you as a fanbase need to resort to artificial noise to rock your stadium that is sad.

But if you cannot get fans in your stadium that is sad too.

I may be naive, but why the **** do you have a dome in Tampa anyways? Because of regular afternoon showers? I wouldn't want to go sit in that piece of **** if I were a Rays fan.

Navarro's Talent
10-02-2008, 06:24 PM
Sadly, Javy just couldn't get it done today. I'm not worried about this series, though. I think it's better to lose the first game than the second game. Anything can happen in the playoffs, so we just have to hope that Mark pitches a great game tomorrow. Go get 'em!

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 06:24 PM
Did it annoy anyone else to see Ozzie before the game doing his comedy hour routine to the Rays during BP? I mean, we're supposed to be banking on them being nervous and there he is making the atmosphere loose for them.

Let's not forget the props for Richard. Hawk's (and other posters who did ask for him too, have to give them their due) proposal didn't sound so bad now...

Who cares... Ozzie is Ozzie and he knows what he is doing.

But remember he did load the bases in the 8th and that was his second time around the line up. Who knows how long he could have gone. It seems like (minus the Yanks outing) that he can't really get through a line up more than one time around.

Then again Javy cannot get through a line up once, so...

MCHSoxFan
10-02-2008, 06:25 PM
Sadly, Javy just couldn't get it done today. I'm not worried about this series, though. I think it's better to lose the first game than the second game. Anything can happen in the playoffs, so we just have to hope that Mark pitches a great game tomorrow. Go get 'em!

Hell YEEESSS!!! MOMENTUM!!!

redsand22
10-02-2008, 06:25 PM
Kazmir tomorrow?

Unless there's another miracle collapse by the other team, we're pretty ****ed.
Look at Kazmir's last couple of games, not exactly unhittable.

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 06:26 PM
Look at Kazmir's last couple of games, not exactly unhittable.

He's actually looked very ugly, as in we should be able to hit at least four solo shots versus him.

rustysurf83
10-02-2008, 06:26 PM
Hell YEEESSS!!! MOMENTUM!!!

My opinion may be biased, but I consider us favorites tommorrow and at the Cell with Floyd and Danks. I'll be interested to see the lines.

WhiteSox1983
10-02-2008, 06:27 PM
Griffey, Uribe, and OC striking out was weak. OC needs to not talk trash and concentrate on chipping in for the team. Tampa is a really solid team.

RockyMtnSoxFan
10-02-2008, 06:27 PM
At this point I think the Sox should eat at least half of Vazquez's contract and trade him to some mediocre team like the Rangers for prospects. I don't care what kind of prospects, just some young guys. Despite the hype about eating innings, he's no better than the replacement level. And we know that he can't pitch under pressure for a winning team, so what's the point in having him? Either he's going to prevent us from going very far, or we trade him for whatever we can get, eat the extra money, and put in some AAA guy who can probably do just as well.

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 06:28 PM
My opinion may be biased, but I consider us favorites tommorrow and at the Cell with Floyd and Danks. I'll be interested to see the lines.

We are +150 tomorrow. You going to back up the truck on us? Burly is safer then the stock market right now.

JB98
10-02-2008, 06:30 PM
We are +150 tomorrow. You going to back up the truck on us? Burly is safer then the stock market right now.

We have the right man on the mound tomorrow. If he doesn't get it done, then, well, it probably won't get done.

rustysurf83
10-02-2008, 06:30 PM
We are +150 tomorrow. You going to back up the truck on us? Burly is safer then the stock market right now.

That's pretty tempting, but if we lose I would be both financially and psychologically ****ed...I'll have to think about that, that line seems considerably high.

BoysMom3
10-02-2008, 06:31 PM
I too wondered why you would have a dome in a place with gorgeous weather like Tampa Bay. And I think the players can and should overcome the distraction of the noise made by the cowbells, but I still think it's unfair. What if we have someone make a really loud noise like a bullhorn, right as the ball is about to cross the plate when their batters are up?

Parrothead
10-02-2008, 06:32 PM
well that blew.:whiner:

LITTLE NELL
10-02-2008, 06:33 PM
I may be naive, but why the **** do you have a dome in Tampa anyways? Because of regular afternoon showers? I wouldn't want to go sit in that piece of **** if I were a Rays fan.
You need to spend a few summers in Florida, then you would understand why they play in a dome as should the Marlins.

1917
10-02-2008, 06:33 PM
I too wondered why you would have a dome in a place with gorgeous weather like Tampa Bay. And I think the players can and should overcome the distraction of the noise made by the cowbells, but I still think it's unfair. What if we have someone make a really loud noise like a bullhorn, right as the ball is about to cross the plate when their batters are up?

WHen it rains, it rains in tampa.......Doesnt look good with Kazmier on the mound, he has our #.

thedudeabides
10-02-2008, 06:33 PM
We have the right man on the mound tomorrow. If he doesn't get it done, then, well, it probably won't get done.

I couldn't agree more. I didn't have much confidence in today's game anyway. I really like our chances tomorrow and if they take one in that dump, they did their job.

Konerko05
10-02-2008, 06:34 PM
At this point I think the Sox should eat at least half of Vazquez's contract and trade him to some mediocre team like the Rangers for prospects. I don't care what kind of prospects, just some young guys. Despite the hype about eating innings, he's no better than the replacement level. And we know that he can't pitch under pressure for a winning team, so what's the point in having him? Either he's going to prevent us from going very far, or we trade him for whatever we can get, eat the extra money, and put in some AAA guy who can probably do just as well.

I don't think the Sox would have to eat half his salary to trade him. He is not any worse now than he was when we traded for him.

Vazquez might still have decent value to some teams. He has made 32 starts in 10 out of 11 years over his career. He consistently strikes out around 200 guys. He also has the stuff that organizations will take a chance on their coaching staff turning his career around.

LongLiveFisk
10-02-2008, 06:40 PM
Ok guys, we're all upset about the Game 1 loss and Javy, but everybody take a deep breath....

:hug:

Group hug!

:)

Woofer
10-02-2008, 06:41 PM
I've seen enough of Vazquez, he should have been pulled when the score was 4-3. He has shown time and time again that he cannot stay out of trouble.

Tomorrow, hopefully we turn this around. We are now 3-5 in this holehole of a park this year, maybe we can get one.

Foulke You
10-02-2008, 06:41 PM
I don't think the Sox would have to eat half his salary to trade him. He is not any worse now than he was when we traded for him.

Vazquez might still have decent value to some teams. He has made 32 starts in 10 out of 11 years over his career. He consistently strikes out around 200 guys. He also has the stuff that organizations will take a chance on their coaching staff turning his career around.
If Kyle freakin' Lohse is worth $41 million over 4 years on the market and Carlos freakin' Silva is worth $48 million over 4 years on the market, then we certainly will not have to eat any of Javier Vazquez's contract should we decide to trade him. Javy is owed $11.5 million per year for '09 and $11.5 million for '10 and is better than both of those pitchers I just mentioned. The only downside is that Javy has a limited no-trade clause that prevents him from being traded to teams in the AL West and NL West. Apparently, it is too far from his home in Puerto Rico (apparently, the only thing Javy has been thinking about during his last 4 starts) and he hated it during his stay in Arizona. I've brought it up in another thread but the Mets could be a logical trade partner. Omar Minaya has ties to Javy through the Expos and with the ancient Pedro Martinez in the rotation, they have to be desperate for more durable starting pitching on the Mets. Not to mention that they are overdue for a shakeup there in Queens.

EndemicSox
10-02-2008, 06:42 PM
Not too hot...

If Kenny Williams is a good GM, he'll find a way to move Vazquez. A pitcher who can't win big games, and the guy will never have the stones to win any big game in August/September, doesn't have a place on this team.

Soxfest
10-02-2008, 06:42 PM
Thanks for nothing timid little Vasquez...........You SUCK!:angry:

TDog
10-02-2008, 06:44 PM
Win tomorrow and we're in pretty good shape, Kazmir has been struggling lately and doesn't go deep into the game.

Kazmir has been tough against the Sox this season, but they got to him in the game he pitched at the Cell. Career numbers don't look good for most the othe Sox hitters. Swisher has just three singles in 21 at bats and only two walks. Anderson is 0-for-6 with five strikeouts and no walks. Cabrera is 2-for-14. Konerko and Dye have hit him well, both hitting over .300. Dye has a couple of homers off of him and Konerko has one.

The Sox do have a better record against lefties than righties this year, although they have a lower team batting average against lefties. Kazmir is 1-0 against the Sox this year. Of course, Buehrle has more postseason experience and has been pitching better of late.

Game 2 is critical for both teams. It is more critical for the White Sox than the Rays, of course, but the Rays certainly don't want to head to Chicago facing Danks and Floyd and no guarantee of coming home for Game 5.

If the Sox had pitched Buehrle today they could have won. They could have lost. I thought Buehrle would be starting today. But even if he had, Vazquez would be starting Friday.

BleacherBandit
10-02-2008, 06:45 PM
How'd we score out runs? Sorry, I was in classes today, there was no way to escape them like there was on Friday.

PaleHoseGeorge
10-02-2008, 06:46 PM
Don't hold your breath waiting for KW to move Javy Vazquez to another team. His trade value will never be lower than it is right now.

Get a clue people... With Contreras a question mark at best, the Sox are already down one starting pitcher. KW is damned lucky both Danks and Floyd turned into bonafide major league starters in 2008 or he would be in an impossible negotiating position.

Williams is not about to make the task of filling out his 2009 starting rotation even harder by trading away Vazquez.

Konerko05
10-02-2008, 06:46 PM
How'd we score out runs? Sorry, I was in classes today, there was no way to escape them like there was on Friday.

Wouldn't it be easier to look at a box score?

BleacherBandit
10-02-2008, 06:48 PM
Wouldn't it be easier to look at a box score?

I was on here first.

JB98
10-02-2008, 06:49 PM
Don't hold your breath waiting for KW to move Javy Vazquez to another team. His trade value will never be lower than it is right now.

Get a clue people... With Contreras a question mark at best, the Sox are already down one starting pitcher. KW is damned lucky both Danks and Floyd turned into bonafide major league starters in 2008 or he would be in an impossible negotiating position.

Williams is not about to make the task of filling out his 2009 starting rotation even harder by trading away Vazquez.

I agree. The Sox don't have the internal options in the organization to trade Vazquez.

KyWhiSoxFan
10-02-2008, 06:49 PM
The good news out of this game is that Vazquez has started his last game for the Sox. The only way he is on the team next year is if KW can't find a taker for his salary.

I don't want to hear how he would be the best fifth starter in baseball, or he is an innings eater, or anything like that. There is nothing positive about a loser. You don't pay a fifth starter $11.5-million a year (except if you are the Yankees with an unlimited payroll). Just unloading Javy's salary and getting nothing in return would be a plus, because KW would be able to use that money to get an infielder (say, Orlando Hudson) or another starter.

You don't need a fifth starter like Javy. He was 12-16 on a team that finished 15 games over .500. There are plenty of pitchers who can put up that pathetic record that cost far less than $11.5-million. (When he was the fifth starter in 2006 after being obtained in a trade, he was 11-12 on a team that was 18 games over .500.)

After Javy's late-season collapse, I would find it hard to believe either Ozzie or KW has any confidence in him for next year and want to see him return.

guillensdisciple
10-02-2008, 06:51 PM
**** him. How could anyone with any type of focus hang that pitch to Longaria? This was worse then his start in Minn. Oh wait, let's not be allowed to criticize any decision or person on the team, Rah Rah Rah, let's have a pep rally
Couldn't agree with you more... can you stop bashing Ozzie though. I have noticed, since the Twins series, you have been on a rampage with him.

SOX ADDICT '73
10-02-2008, 06:53 PM
...He also has the stuff that organizations will take a chance on their coaching staff turning his career around.
If Coop can't fix him, nobody can.

Here's a thought which may have come up previously (if so, forgive the redundancy), but the way I look at it, the Sox were probably going to lose with Vazquez on the mound anyway. You certainly don't want him pitching at home, where you HAVE to win, so they had to choose between the first two games in Tampa. If you start Mark Buehrle in game 1, again on short rest, maybe he wins, maybe not; then Javy loses game 2. With Javy starting game 1, we get his loss out of the way, and Buehrle can start on regular rest (better chance of winning), followed by Danks and Floyd at home for games 3 & 4. With two travel days built into the schedule, Buehrle can come back on 4-days rest for a possible game 5.

Frontman
10-02-2008, 06:53 PM
Ok guys, we're all upset about the Game 1 loss and Javy, but everybody take a deep breath....

:hug:

Group hug!

:)

Ok, fine. Just as long as Javy doesn't get in with it as well.

*trips Javy while heading into the hug.*

TDog
10-02-2008, 07:01 PM
Don't hold your breath waiting for KW to move Javy Vazquez to another team. His trade value will never be lower than it is right now.

Get a clue people... With Contreras a question mark at best, the Sox are already down one starting pitcher. KW is damned lucky both Danks and Floyd turned into bonafide major league starters in 2008 or he would be in an impossible negotiating position.

Williams is not about to make the task of filling out his 2009 starting rotation even harder by trading away Vazquez.

It's possible, although unlikely, that the Sox could sign a big free-agent pitcher. Such pitchers rarely return value. But as you not, the Sox are already down one starter. Cut Vazquez and you're down two, unless you want to count on Richard or Broadway stepping in and becoming a dependable starter, as Buehrle did in 2001 after playing the reliever/spot starter role in 2000. Or maybe you could sign a starter and trade Richard and Broadway for a starter better than Vazquez. None of that seems likely.

Vazquez isn't going anywere

cards press box
10-02-2008, 07:01 PM
It was just as easily winnable for the Rays.

We gotta go get them tomorrow. When we don't get more then one inning of runs that is usually not good especially when Javy is our pitcher.

I could not agree more. Tampa or the Sox could have won this game today and we certainly had our chances. But we did learn a few things in this game today, namely that the Rays struggle with lefties. I expect lefties to start in 3 of the next 5 games (Buerhle in game 2, Danks in game 3 and Buerhle again in game 5on full rest) and, what's more, don't be surprised if Richard has an expanded role in the bullpen for the remainder of the series.

It is no time to sulk. The Sox can still win this series and, more importantly, can still win it all. I hope the Sox come out tommorrow with the type of attitude they brought to Boston and Anaheim in 2005.

WhiteSox5187
10-02-2008, 07:02 PM
Actually, Vazquez is fairly above average for a fourth starter. Keep throwing out horrible comparisons though.
Javy is nothing more than a good pitcher on a bad team. He's only won more than twelve games four times and once has that happened on a team that's won more than 83 games, that was back in '04 when he had a 4.91 ERA and a 1.288 WHIP on a very good Yankees team.

Vernam
10-02-2008, 07:04 PM
Javi: Turned into Jose Contreras of 2007 without bothering to first be JC of 2005.

OC: Gritty attempt to distract Balfour or bush league taunt that he couldn't back up with a hit? Both, maybe, but more of the latter.

Balfour: Wouldn't this last name put undue pressure on a relief pitcher? That's what I'd be yelling: "Hey, Ball-Four, throw a ****ing strike!"

Griffey: Again, should not be playing CF. It's painful.

Richards: A major bright spot. If that's any indication of how the Rays hit lefties (and it is, based on their season stats), we could do really well with Buehrle and Danks.

Paulie: Great at-bat in the ninth.

Wise: Earned himself continued PT with that homer.

BA: Earned himself continued bench time with that backward K.


Beauty of this series is that we only need to win one game in Tampa. Hopefully that'll be tomorrow.

Vernam

Foulke You
10-02-2008, 07:06 PM
Don't hold your breath waiting for KW to move Javy Vazquez to another team. His trade value will never be lower than it is right now.

Get a clue people... With Contreras a question mark at best, the Sox are already down one starting pitcher. KW is damned lucky both Danks and Floyd turned into bonafide major league starters in 2008 or he would be in an impossible negotiating position.

Williams is not about to make the task of filling out his 2009 starting rotation even harder by trading away Vazquez.
I'm not saying dump him for nothing and fill the rotation hole internally. My hope is that the trade would allow him to fill the rotation hole with someone else. Yes, his trade value is lower right now but he still has quite a bit of trade value if we put him on the market. He is affordable for a pitcher who is durable, eats a lot of innings, is a 200+ strikeout guy, and has the reputation of his mythical "20 win stuff" that some team would love to add. He is also only signed for 2 more years. If a team like the Mets eats the $11.5 million and you get the right prospects in trade, you could pry loose a solid innings eater who doesn't wet the bed from a team that is rebuilding. Someone like a Justin Duchscherer. You know how Billy Beane likes collecting his prospects. You don't win a World Series with Javier Vazquez at the front of your rotation which is why the Yankees couldn't wait to unload him on the Diamondbacks after one year. The only way I'd be fine with bringing him back would be as a #5 guy if we add another bonifide front line starter in the offseason.

cards press box
10-02-2008, 07:09 PM
After Javy's late-season collapse, I would find it hard to believe either Ozzie or KW has any confidence in him for next year and want to see him return.

Agreed.

The good news out of this game is that Vazquez has started his last game for the Sox. The only way he is on the team next year is if KW can't find a taker for his salary.

There are teams, like the Mets, who may take a chance on Javy returning to his form of 2007. If the Sox can move his salary, the perhaps they could sign a veteran pitcher for a reasonable deal to be the #4 starter with Clayton Richard the likely #5 starter. I know that Jon Garland has had a bad year but consider this: (1) Garland's bad year might result in lowering his market value to the point where he would accept the combination of years and salary that the White Sox would be willing to give and (2) perhaps Garland would once again benefit from the stewardship of Don Cooper and Ozzie Guillen.

Vazquez isn't going anywere

See above comment.

PaleHoseGeorge
10-02-2008, 07:12 PM
Beauty of this series as that we only need to win one game in Tampa. Hopefully that'll be tomorrow.



Best post of the thread. After clawing their way into the playoffs and basically being forced to start a pitcher nobody would want to start Game 1 if a more viable alternative were available, the Sox look just fine if they steal even one game in Tampa.

For the record I agreed with the rest of your post, too.
:cool:

The Immigrant
10-02-2008, 07:16 PM
Beauty of this series is that we only need to win one game in Tampa. Hopefully that'll be tomorrow.

Vernam

Great post.

EndemicSox
10-02-2008, 07:17 PM
Agreed, if MB steps up tommorow, and the offense can put a few runs on the board versus Kazmir...I think the Sox have to be the favorite coming home with Danks/Floyd on tap....

pagansoxfan
10-02-2008, 07:17 PM
tu eres un chiste y tu chupas javy!!!

vegyrex
10-02-2008, 07:19 PM
I actually wasn't expecting to win this game. Vazquez just doesn't inspire confidence. So I'm not surprised we lost.

Tomorrow should be better.

DickAllen72
10-02-2008, 07:20 PM
I don't really feel too bad about this loss for some reason. I guess I never expected Vazquez to come through in a big game. Typical Javy....they give him a 3-1 lead and he immediately gives them a 4-3 advantage.
I really miss Jose Contreras.

If Buehrle pitches well tomorrow and they manage to steal one in the dome they'll be in good shape.

Great game by Richard, nice clutch HR by Wise, typical good game by AJ, great AB in the ninth by Paulie.

No matter what the stats indicate or the experts say, I'll be glad to see Cabrera go away. And if they can find a taker for Vazquez, that'll suit me as well. $12.5M for a fifth starter is too much.

Go Sox tomorrow!

PaleHoseGeorge
10-02-2008, 07:26 PM
I'm not saying dump [Vazquez] for nothing and fill the rotation hole internally. My hope is that the trade would allow him to fill the rotation hole with someone else. Yes, his trade value is lower right now but he still has quite a bit of trade value if we put him on the market. He is affordable for a pitcher who is durable, eats a lot of innings, is a 200+ strikeout guy, and has the reputation of his mythical "20 win stuff" that some team would love to add.

If "if" and "buts" were candy and nuts we would all have a Merry Christmas!

He's never been worth less than right now. Good luck with that plan of yours.

IronFisk
10-02-2008, 07:27 PM
Javy didn't deserve this game at all. Richard should have started. For all those who doubt, just one name...Beckett.

I'm not scared of this team at all - and from the looks of it, neither are the Sox. Had plenty of opportunities. Let's win the next one, and have these guys battling from behind.

JB98
10-02-2008, 07:33 PM
Javy didn't deserve this game at all. Richard should have started. For all those who doubt, just one name...Beckett.

I'm not scared of this team at all - and from the looks of it, neither are the Sox. Had plenty of opportunities. Let's win the next one, and have these guys battling from behind.

Are you comparing Clayton Richard to Josh Beckett? Seriously? :scratch:

HangWiffum
10-02-2008, 07:36 PM
some dumb team will take a shot on javy. i say just give him away. i'm sure milwaukee will need pitchers going into next year.

whitesoxfan
10-02-2008, 07:41 PM
Not really too worried about this. As long as we win one of the first two in Tampa, we'll win the series. I didn't think we'd win with Javy on the mound and we'll have a better shot with a hot Buehrle and a cold Kazmir on the mound.

Offense is just going to have to be extremely patient tomorrow and work Kaz's pitch count.

SoxGirl4Life
10-02-2008, 07:47 PM
We had to use our three best pitchers to get here and that was less than 48 hours ago! We had no choice but to use Vasquez. He did exactly what I thought he would do.

I have faith that Buehrle and Danks step up and we see Floyd before this is over.

PeoriaSoxFan
10-02-2008, 07:48 PM
The Rays have good pitching, and the Sox need to do a better job of capitalizing on scoring opportunities. You cannot load the bases with one out, get nothing and expect to win. That's what we did in the seventh. One or two runs there, and there is more pressure on Wheeler in the ninth.

I also thought our lack of infield depth hurt us. I would have liked to pinch-hit for Uribe in the seventh, but really, who do you turn to? We don't have anybody on the bench who is a better bet to make solid contact than Uribe himself. That's definitely a weakness for our Sox.

Let's good a good outing from Buehrle and get them tomorrow.


All true.

PeoriaSoxFan
10-02-2008, 07:53 PM
I agree. The Sox don't have the internal options in the organization to trade Vazquez.


I also agree. I think Richard has a shot and I believe Poreda will be a stud (maybe 2010), but you can't have 4 lefties in a starting rotation either. I am excited about the possibilities. I have a feeling that Kenny will have a good offseason.

JB98
10-02-2008, 07:57 PM
I also agree. I think Richard has a shot and I believe Poreda will be a stud (maybe 2010), but you can't have 4 lefties in a starting rotation either. I am excited about the possibilities. I have a feeling that Kenny will have a good offseason.

I believe Richard has shown enough to compete for a roster spot coming into next year. I still haven't seen quite enough to convince me he should be in the 2009 rotation.

Richard might be suited for the role we saw him in today. He can give you two or three quality innings. He seems to have trouble once he hits his fourth or fifth inning of work.

LoveYourSuit
10-02-2008, 07:59 PM
I didn't see anything that excited me about the offense today. Javy was his usual sucky self, but the offense was not there either. When D Wise accounts for 3 of your 4 runs, the offense laid an egg. D Wise still sucks in my book.


So the core of this offense has only accounted for 2 solo shots in 2 games. Kind of Pathetic, don't you think?


And OC made himself look like the usual jackass he is. Can't wait for the door to hit him in the ass after this is done.

Get them tomorrow. I am giving Buehrle a 2-3 run cushion max with this offense and Kazmir on the bump.

PeoriaSoxFan
10-02-2008, 08:00 PM
Having already posted my relatively positive manifesto in this thread (see page 8, could be pulitzer prize material)...my main concern is that this game was winnable, absent the fact that we had the wrong pitching matchup. I think MB will be solid overall, but I fear we will lose a 2-0 game as we won't hit Kazmir. I hope that fear is totally offbased. Even if it does materialize, I still think we have a shot going back home with Danks and Floyd.

Adele_H
10-02-2008, 08:04 PM
I didn't see anything that excited me about the offense today. Javy was his usual sucky self, but the offense was not there either. When D Wise accounts for 3 of your 4 runs, the offense laid an egg. D Wise still sucks in my book.

.

Agreed.

But to Wise's credit, he hit the only pitch he can hit with any consistency with that golf chip-shot swing of his - Low-and-In.

At least Wise took advantage of a stupid pitch selection/mistake by Shields - which is more than I can say for the rest of the Walkerball bunch who couldn't hit even when they guessed correctly, for the most part.

Javy certainly has a knack for breaking fans' hearts, doesn't he?

soxfanatlanta
10-02-2008, 08:05 PM
Echoing the sentiments of many other posters here; they showed up, and despite the fact that JV crapped the bed (again, and again) the game was winnable.

We need MB to give us a repeat performance of his last start or it could be a 3 and out.

PaleHoseGeorge
10-02-2008, 08:06 PM
... I think Richard has a shot and I believe Poreda will be a stud (maybe 2010), but you can't have 4 lefties in a starting rotation either. I am excited about the possibilities. I have a feeling that Kenny will have a good offseason.

EXACTLY. Kenny Williams negotiates from strength when the topic is trading his wealth of lefties, NOT Javy Vazquez.

Every GM in the league will be calling up KW offering the world to pick up one of the Sox lefties. They need to offer KW the world because if they don't offer the world, somebody else will.

Nobody will be offering jack for Javy Vazquez. His value is now lower than whale **** and everyone -- especially KW -- knows it. Hold on to him and wait for his value to inevitably go up again.

Some people still need to learn how to negotiate...

Domeshot17
10-02-2008, 08:07 PM
I hate this feeling. Atleast when we lose you feel like ok we got beat. Today we just beat ourselves. Javy was terrrrriiibbbbllleee as usual, the defense was pretty mediocre (More Griffey being too slow to play CF, Orlando with a bad throw to nail Imawura at 3rd, PK slipping on the pick off). The offense was blech, doing nothing after that homer. I still want to know *** Orlando was doing. Like a pitcher with a sub 2 era needs an extra motivation.

Domeshot17
10-02-2008, 08:09 PM
I also agree. I think Richard has a shot and I believe Poreda will be a stud (maybe 2010), but you can't have 4 lefties in a starting rotation either. I am excited about the possibilities. I have a feeling that Kenny will have a good offseason.

Poreda is Matt Thornton Lite. Name one stud SP that throws nothing but a fastball?

JB98
10-02-2008, 08:10 PM
Poreda is Matt Thornton Lite. Name one stud SP that throws nothing but a fastball?

There's still hope that Poreda will develop an off-speed repetoire though, right? It's not like he's 30 years old.

Brian26
10-02-2008, 08:11 PM
I love BA, but with a full count he's got to be thinking fastball, guessing fastball, sitting on a fastball and swinging from his heels, especially when that's the only pitch he seems to be able to handle easily. Terrible at bat by him at the end of the game there. He's got to get on base for JD.

Brian26
10-02-2008, 08:13 PM
Kazmir tomorrow?

Unless there's another miracle collapse by the other team, we're pretty ****ed.

Kazmir has been utterly pedestrian lately. We're gonna get him, no worries.

Brian26
10-02-2008, 08:15 PM
EXACTLY!!! SAME HERE!!! I knew this would be the hardest game for us. I say we win tomorrow cause of Buhrle and then we win the next 2 cause they are at home. WE CAN EASILY DO THIS!!!!

Take this to the bank- The Sox won't lose another game at home all year.

If we can steal one at Tampa tomorrow, we win this series on Monday in Chicago.

turners56
10-02-2008, 08:17 PM
some dumb team will take a shot on javy. i say just give him away. i'm sure milwaukee will need pitchers going into next year.

We were dumb enough to do it after a mediocre season in Arizona. :mad:

Brian26
10-02-2008, 08:17 PM
Big Game Javy. That's all I can say. I never want to see him pitch in the playoffs again. Horse**** effort by Javy tonight.

I can stomach the loss, but what I can't tolerate is Javy going out and giving up three runs about five minutes after Wise lucked out with that three run homer. Big time pitchers at least give their team a breather and hold them for the next inning.

Brian26
10-02-2008, 08:25 PM
OC is a dumbass, I can't wait till he's gone, I'm not sure what the hell he is doing. Thome and Griffey were a non-factor today.

I actually liked the thought process of trying to rattle the pitcher. It may have been a smart move what he was trying to do. Unfortunately, poor execution and trying to swing at a ball 8-inches out of the zone made OC look like a fool.

champagne030
10-02-2008, 08:27 PM
Kazmir tomorrow?

Unless there's another miracle collapse by the other team, we're pretty ****ed.

Just started reading through this thread, but **** Kazmir. He has been Javy this month. 9 HR's in 26 innings? That's right up our alley........

turners56
10-02-2008, 08:31 PM
I actually liked the thought process of trying to rattle the pitcher. It may have been a smart move what he was trying to do. Unfortunately, poor execution and trying to swing at a ball 8-inches out of the zone made OC look like a fool.

OC also checked up on a swing that Jerry West called a strike. It was pretty close, but that pitch changed the entire at bat.

ChicagoHoosier
10-02-2008, 08:32 PM
I didn't expect us to sweep TB, so just really wanted to get 1/2 there. If we win tomorrow, we've accomplished that. But it IS tough to swallow that we had so many chances.

But, they also beat us too. Bases loaded, one out, and their guy gets the back-to-back Ks? Give him some credit too. They played a good game tonight. Longoria awesome in his playoff debut.

I predict a much lower scoring game tomorrow and hope we can support Buehrle, give him 2-3 runs, and hope that's all he needs.

ChicagoHoosier
10-02-2008, 08:33 PM
OC also checked up on a swing that Jerry West called a strike. It was pretty close, but that pitch changed the entire at bat.

VERY close. One of those that I can't argue too much other than wish it went our way.

NOTHING compared the Swisher's check strikeout in that Twins game. Now that type of appeal strike freakin kills me.

turners56
10-02-2008, 08:36 PM
Had Uribe been a split second faster on the first pitch Balfour threw him, he would of had a two run double.

MHOUSE
10-02-2008, 08:38 PM
I was so excited when Wise woke up with a dinger out of nowhere. Then Javy decided to give it all back and it was over then. He's pitching as frustratingly as Garland/Danny Wright circa 2002, the only difference being he's not a young pitcher, he's a "veteran". I just don't get how he can strike out 6 in 3 innings while coughing up 4 runs in between. I would take a bag of balls for him at this point. I just don't want his crap attitude affecting the younger pitchers. Floyd and Danks have 1000x more heart than this guy. We need to rebuild this rotation around them and Buehrle. I'd take a chance on Richard in the ALCS rather than run Javy out their with 17 losses.

ElevenUp
10-02-2008, 08:41 PM
I didn't expect that we would take both games from Tampa on the road. If figured between the two games, we had a better shot at wining the second one. I am insanely frustrated that Javy spit the bit when he was given a lead, but I feel confident that MB can win tomorrow.

thomas35forever
10-02-2008, 08:43 PM
All I can say about today is that it further strengthens my belief that Vazquez should not be on the team next year. If we want to win playoff series, we obviously can't count on him. If we can't trade him, we should hold a charity auction or something to raise the money to buy out his contract.

Adele_H
10-02-2008, 08:46 PM
Nobody will be offering jack for Javy Vazquez.
...

Are you positive?

'Durable starting pitchers under the age of 35 with sexy stuff & even sexier peripherals, accrued in an AL bandbox' is a still a fairly sought-after commodity in the trade market.

Look what we got for the clearly injured Freddy Garcia coming off a subpar year from the Phillies: an excellent RHP reclamation prospect and a good-if-raw LHP prospect. And Phillies were more pretenders than true contenders at that point.

Trust me, there will be a SP-desperate NL GM on a 'must win' hotseat or two who are still in love with (the Eternal Promise of) Javier Vazquez and who can be coersed into trading a valuable piece from organizational strenght - perhaps another Quentin from a stacked OF or another Adrian Gonzalez from a stacked 1B....or, maybe, gasp, Andruw-Jones-suddenly-discovering-passion-for-life-as-part-of-salary-swap...

"Selling low"? This isn't stock trading. And even if it were... most people suck at it. Including you, PHG, believe it or not.

Sure, ideally Reinsdorf keeps expanding payroll.... Sox keep Vazquez... he flourishes late in his career, in the process doubling his "value" (whatever the hell that means)... .. But then, why would you trade him in the first place, especially with Contreras still big ? mark?

MHOUSE
10-02-2008, 09:08 PM
Are you positive?

'Durable starting pitchers under the age of 35 with sexy stuff & even sexier peripherals, accrued in an AL bandbox' is a still a fairly sought-after commodity in the trade market.

Look what we got for the clearly injured Freddy Garcia coming off a subpar year from the Phillies: an excellent RHP reclamation prospect and a good-if-raw LHP prospect. And Phillies were more pretenders than true contenders at that point.

Trust me, there will be a SP-desperate NL GM on a 'must win' hotseat or two who are still in love with (the Eternal Promise of) Javier Vazquez and who can be coersed into trading a valuable piece from organizational strenght - perhaps another Quentin from a stacked OF or another Adrian Gonzalez from a stacked 1B....or, maybe, gasp, Andruw-Jones-suddenly-discovering-passion-for-life-as-part-of-salary-swap...

"Selling low"? This isn't stock trading. And even if it were... most people suck at it. Including you, PHG, believe it or not.

Sure, ideally Reinsdorf keeps expanding payroll.... Sox keep Vazquez... he flourishes late in his career, in the process doubling his "value" (whatever the hell that means)... .. But then, why would you trade him in the first place, especially with Contreras still big ? mark?

A very good point. I'd almost be willing to make that Andruw Jones trade if somehow Ozzie and KW could keep on him about weight and work ethic. Then again, we're complaining about Javy's lack of motivation under those two, so not promises. I'd do just about anything to get him out of town if I were KW.

JB98
10-02-2008, 09:09 PM
A very good point. I'd almost be willing to make that Andruw Jones trade if somehow Ozzie and KW could keep on him about weight and work ethic. Then again, we're complaining about Javy's lack of motivation under those two, so not promises. I'd do just about anything to get him out of town if I were KW.

I wouldn't trade pitching for Andruw Jones.

EuroSox35
10-02-2008, 09:17 PM
That thing with Cabrera today is still killing me. It seems like that douche Balfour really instigated this with his mouth (even admitted by Longoria), but the misinformation is running wild. On the TBS broadcast for the Phillies game they were laughing at us, 'what was Cabrera thinking asking to be challenged inside? I don't think I've ever seen a batter get mad for being pitched away...The best part was when he struck out, that was really funny' :rolleyes:

Balfour is some douche who used to be a Twins pitcher for a few years, and has been terrible every year of his career except for this year where his numbers are amazing, sounds pretty fishy to me. I don't want to face him beause of his numbers, but if we do, I'd love to light him up. Take your ass back to Australia *******

Frater Perdurabo
10-02-2008, 09:22 PM
I wouldn't trade pitching for Andruw Jones.

I'm not sure Vazquez can be considered a "pitcher."