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View Full Version : Anyone Else Worried About Javy?


WhiteSoxRich
10-01-2008, 10:32 PM
I have to admit, I'm scared to death about Javier Vazquez starting tomorrow. I just don't have a lot of confidence after his last few outings. Anyone else share my angst?

Pear-Zin-Ski
10-01-2008, 10:36 PM
Rather have him game 1 than games 2-5....

TheOldRoman
10-01-2008, 10:37 PM
No. I am inexplicably confident that he will pitch well and get the win tomorrow.

tstrike2000
10-01-2008, 10:38 PM
I think he'll rebound tomorrow.

Marqhead
10-01-2008, 10:40 PM
No. No time for worrying on the Soxtober bandwagon.

hi im skot
10-01-2008, 10:40 PM
It's out of my control...and it's the Rays.

Let's do it.

geraldfritz
10-01-2008, 10:41 PM
I think he will be alright as long as he does not throw those sliders when he gets into trouble. He needs to stay with his fastball,Curve, and changeup more. That slider gets crushed too much.

21stcenturySox
10-01-2008, 10:44 PM
I have to admit, I'm scared to death about Javier Vazquez starting tomorrow. I just don't have a lot of confidence after his last few outings. Anyone else share my angst?

If thou art pained by any external thing, it is not this that disturbs thee, but thy own judgment about it. And it is in thy power to wipe out this judgment now.

--Marcus Aurelius

Tragg
10-01-2008, 10:46 PM
I'm not worried - if he struggles, use the pen. I think he'll give us at least 5 strong - that should be enough.

This is a good matchup for us.

Rockabilly
10-01-2008, 10:47 PM
Javy will pitch 7 innings gives up 3 runs and have 8 K's

Sox will win 6-4

ChiSoxFan81
10-01-2008, 10:48 PM
Like the saying goes, third time's a charm. This is his 3rd chance to prove he can come through in a big game. I don't think he will disappoint. Hopefully the momentum from our other 3 horses will carry over into Javy's start.

WhiteSoxOnly
10-01-2008, 10:51 PM
As long as Ozzie comes out and gets Javy right after his first
soiling...give him a shot.

WhiteSox5187
10-01-2008, 10:53 PM
I think Javy is just due for a good outting.

TomBradley72
10-01-2008, 11:04 PM
I think he's due for a good outing. I think getting back to 4 days rest will really help him. I think he's seen how MB, Gavin and Danks all came through and he knows it's his turn. We're going to get a quality start from Javy tomorrow.

WhiteSoxRich
10-01-2008, 11:05 PM
As long as Ozzie comes out and gets Javy right after his first
soiling...give him a shot.

Yes, providing that Ozzie comes out to get him at the first sniff of trouble. What I don't like is that, IMO, Ozzie likes to leave a pitcher in to try & work himself out of a jam. These are the playoffs, and I don't want to watch a struggling pitcher "try to work himself out of a jam". And I am aware of the problems we've had in the bullpen, but the longer the problem on the mound festers, the more pressure is put on the bullpen.

hawkjt
10-01-2008, 11:07 PM
Honestly? I am more worried about our offense. Shields is tough and even in this three game winning streak we have not hit the ball well.
A few clutch homers lead to wins but we need to put up double digit hits just once a month or so to make me feel better. Like tomorrow. How bout the offense takes the extreme pressure off of Javy for a change?

Wishful thinking maybe...but still, are we ever going to break out on offense for even one game? Remember game 1 vs the Red Sox in 05? What did we score? 12?....now that is the way to kick off the playoffs.

WhiteSoxRich
10-01-2008, 11:09 PM
Honestly? I am more worried about our offense. Shields is tough and even in this three game winning streak we have not hit the ball well.
A few clutch homers lead to wins but we need to put up double digit hits just once a month or so to make me feel better. Like tomorrow. How bout the offense takes the extreme pressure off of Javy for a change?

Wishful thinking maybe...but still, are we ever going to break out on offense for even one game? Remember game 1 vs the Red Sox in 05? What did we score? 12?....now that is the way to kick off the playoffs.

I don't disagree with what you said...but we all know pitching wins games!

WhiteSoxBlog
10-01-2008, 11:13 PM
I think Ozzie is worried, too. That's why Floyd is in the 'pen.

NoNeckEra
10-01-2008, 11:18 PM
Honestly? I am more worried about our offense.
The Sox do not have an offensive team designed to succeed in a playoff environment.

They are a home run driven offense, and home runs are usually hit on mistake pitches. And mistake pitches are USUALLY offered up by subpar pitchers. If a pitcher faces the Sox with good stuff, we don't have the lineup to "nickel and dime" him for a couple of runs.

Our best hope is for the Rays' young staff to do too much thinking and not enough pitching.

hawkjt
10-01-2008, 11:20 PM
I thought that was strange that Ozzie flipped Floyd with Danks and then said Floyd could work out of the bullpen...is he actually going to use Floyd tomorrow out of the pen if Javy runs into early trouble? Seems like that would mess up Floyd for Monday....Coop and Ozzie...the mad scientists.:D:

markopat
10-01-2008, 11:22 PM
As long as Ozzie comes out and gets Javy right after his first
soiling...give him a shot.

I think this is the key (not necessary "the soiling" - But Ozzie going out to get him at first sign of trouble. Especially after the 5th.

Mohoney
10-01-2008, 11:22 PM
It's best to throw him out there in game 1. If he wins, I think the series is over. I don't think Tampa will win 2 out of 3 when we throw Buehrle, Floyd, and Danks in the next 3 games, and if it somehow does go to 5 games, Buehrle would be able to throw on regular rest next Wednesday.

If Javy sucks eggs, we have a few games to recover, and hopefully he can at least eat some innings and not burn our whole bullpen.

WhiteSoxBlog
10-01-2008, 11:26 PM
I thought that was strange that Ozzie flipped Floyd with Danks and then said Floyd could work out of the bullpen...is he actually going to use Floyd tomorrow out of the pen if Javy runs into early trouble? Seems like that would mess up Floyd for Monday....Coop and Ozzie...the mad scientists.:D:
he said it was because he wanted 2 lefties... but i really think he just wanted to make sure Vazquez had insurance

house215
10-01-2008, 11:33 PM
I feel like we were spoiled with how well everything went for the Sox in the playoffs in 2005. I know that if the Sox are going to advance through the playoffs that it is not going to be as easy as it was in 2005. That being said, even if Javy doesn't pitch his best tomorrow, we still got a shot at winning the series.

35th and Shields
10-01-2008, 11:36 PM
It's a low risk, high reward type of situation. We are not expected to go into tampa and win two games. If javy loses we have Buerhrle right after him and if he wins the sox will have a HUGE advantage. I like the move.

WhiteSoxRich
10-01-2008, 11:41 PM
It's best to throw him out there in game 1. If he wins, I think the series is over. I don't think Tampa will win 2 out of 3 when we throw Buehrle, Floyd, and Danks in the next 3 games, and if it somehow does go to 5 games, Buehrle would be able to throw on regular rest next Wednesday.

If Javy sucks eggs, we have a few games to recover, and hopefully he can at least eat some innings and not burn our whole bullpen.

Certainly something to consider...if he ****s the bed, we have some strong pitching in the next three games, and they aren't pitching on short rest!

The Dude
10-01-2008, 11:51 PM
No. I am inexplicably confident that he will pitch well and get the win tomorrow.


Agreed. He is a solid pitcher and he knows he needs to perform well. I really have a good feeling about it.....

alohafri
10-02-2008, 07:39 AM
I think Ozzie is worried, too. That's why Floyd is in the 'pen.

Exactly. If Javy is being Javy and implodes after what he considers a bad call, Ozzie needs to be yank on that short leash and bring Floyd in.

On a brighter note, has Javy ever had more than three ridiculously bad games in a row? If not, look out Tampa!

Carolina Kenny
10-02-2008, 07:44 AM
Too bad Ozzie can't pitch, he is 11-1 in the post season.

Javy is Javy which means only the baseball gods know and they ain't speaking up until the game starts.

btrain929
10-02-2008, 07:45 AM
I thought that was strange that Ozzie flipped Floyd with Danks and then said Floyd could work out of the bullpen...is he actually going to use Floyd tomorrow out of the pen if Javy runs into early trouble? Seems like that would mess up Floyd for Monday....Coop and Ozzie...the mad scientists.:D:

Floyd hasn't faced TB this year. But since he's one of our best pitchers, it's good to have him backing Javy if he sucks.

Danks stats vs TB, on the other hand, wow:

vs TB: 19ip 16h 20k 1.86era .219baa
@ Tropicana: 13ip 9h 16k 0.69era .188 baa.

Me likey.

LITTLE NELL
10-02-2008, 07:52 AM
He's due for a good outing. If he stinks up the place but we advance in the playoffs he goes to bullpen.

SouthPaw72
10-02-2008, 08:54 AM
Yes, providing that Ozzie comes out to get him at the first sniff of trouble. What I don't like is that, IMO, Ozzie likes to leave a pitcher in to try & work himself out of a jam. These are the playoffs, and I don't want to watch a struggling pitcher "try to work himself out of a jam". And I am aware of the problems we've had in the bullpen, but the longer the problem on the mound festers, the more pressure is put on the bullpen.

I agree with you. I think that is Ozzie's biggest weakness, he leaves pitchers on the mound way too long after they are starting to lose it. I really hope he changes that strategy for the playoffs.:rolleyes:

southside rocks
10-02-2008, 08:58 AM
No. I am inexplicably confident that he will pitch well and get the win tomorrow.

I am too! Against all reason and logic, I am.

Dan Mega
10-02-2008, 09:02 AM
He'll either go 5 IP then get lit up or he'll go 8 IP with 8 k and 2 BB, 1 ER.

Hopefully its the latter.

CLR01
10-02-2008, 09:04 AM
**** no. Javy will go 8 striking out 10. Sox win 6-1

TomBradley72
10-02-2008, 09:04 AM
I feel like we were spoiled with how well everything went for the Sox in the playoffs in 2005. I know that if the Sox are going to advance through the playoffs that it is not going to be as easy as it was in 2005.

I don't really think it was that easy....if the ball doesn't go through Graffanino's legs...the ALDS might have beem 1-1 going to Fenway....if El Duque doesn't pull his magic we could have been down 2-1. In the ALCS...if it's not for AJ's dropped 3rd strike call...we might have been down 2-0 to the Angels.

We were 11-1...but almost most of the games were very close and turned on a few key plays.

guillensdisciple
10-02-2008, 09:06 AM
Have some faith in Javy, guy hasn't been pitching that well lately and even though these are the playoffs I believe there is less pressure on him now then there was last week.

Bob G
10-02-2008, 09:28 AM
Well if stats mean anything (not much IMO) the Rays are hitting .262 against Javy while we're hitting .321 against Shields - career stats. According to AM1000 this morning our lineup is hitting .373 vs Shields.

There's all sorts of stats which can make a case either way but the bottom line is Javy just needs to execute.

RockyMtnSoxFan
10-02-2008, 09:53 AM
I'm definitely worried about Vazquez. Everybody acknowledges that he has great stuff, but his performance isn't that good, which means he lacks the mental edge. The playoffs is where you need mental toughness the most, so he really scares me.

Like another poster said, I think our offense might be just as big of a problem. It hasn't clicked consistently in quite a while. They might go out there and throw up some big numbers, but they seem just as likely to pop out and strike out. On the other hand, if the Rays pitchers make mistakes and get rattled, our hitters could come up big.

Let's hope that Javy doesn't get that bad call or defensive mistake that causes him to lose it, and Shields hangs some offspeed pitches over the plate for our guys to hit.

PennStater98r
10-02-2008, 09:54 AM
Yes - but who here is worried about the Sox bats against Kazmir tonight?

MushMouth
10-02-2008, 09:57 AM
We're gonna have to score some runs today, that's for sure. I'm just hopeful Javy can give us a decent start, I'm not expecting greatness. Need the offense to carry us today!

white sox bill
10-02-2008, 10:00 AM
Yes I'm worried. And with good reason.

1917
10-02-2008, 10:06 AM
Of course I'm worried, he's been a headcase and a problem for us the past 3 weeks, but he is our only real option, he's a veteran with post season experience (though be it out of the pen, but still), he's a better option then Richard....that being said, as a previous poster stated, if he is in trouble, he's gotta be yanked. We have never played well against Kazmier, we gotta take game 1!

asindc
10-02-2008, 10:07 AM
Yes - but who here is worried about the Sox bats against Kazmir tonight?

I'm not one bit worried about Kazmir today since he won't be pitching. Shields is starting for TB today.

asindc
10-02-2008, 10:12 AM
Have some faith in Javy, guy hasn't been pitching that well lately and even though these are the playoffs I believe there is less pressure on him now then there was last week.

I agree with this. In fact, I think the whole team is more relaxed now than last week. The veterans who were here in 2005 know that they can get it done and that Sox fans are much less anxious about this postseason since we won it all then. The youngsters know that they can get it done under pressure, as the last 3 games showed.

I also think Javy is more relaxed being able to open up on the road. He knows the fans are not happy with him right now, so pitching the game with the least amount of pressure in the entire playoffs (if we advance) on the road is a plus IMO.

palehozenychicty
10-02-2008, 10:13 AM
Vazquez has a statement game this afternoon, for the team, the organization, and himself. He must battle out there, as anything else will be inexcusable. Not after the efforts of Buehrle, Floyd, and Danks to get us here.

We've had a good history against Shields, but he's been strong all year.

I can't wait....:D:

PennStater98r
10-02-2008, 10:23 AM
I'm not one bit worried about Kazmir today since he won't be pitching. Shields is starting for TB today.


d'oh - well now I'm not worried ;)

slavko
10-02-2008, 10:32 AM
Have some faith in Javy, guy hasn't been pitching that well lately and even though these are the playoffs I believe there is less pressure on him now then there was last week.

You are correct sir. There's more to worry about in pissing away a 162 game season than a five game series we weren't supposed to be in in the first place. In April/May people were calling Javy our ace as Buehrle was in a funk and the 2 kids hadn't emerged. (IMO the real ace is nobody.) Javy has the goods. I have a good feeling and I'm usually a pessimist.

GoGoCrede
10-02-2008, 10:33 AM
I think it's good that we are worried and not cocky or overconfident. Keeps us focused. Overconfidence can spell a team's doom.

hawkjt
10-02-2008, 10:35 AM
After watching Dempster implode yesterday, it reinforced again that in the playoffs...hitting is hard, walking is a bonus. Javy absolutely has to throw strikes. Make them hit the ball,Javy. And in the cold when they get to Chicago ,even harder to hit. Teams whose pitchers throw strikes always win in the playoffs cuz no one seems to string hits together.

If Javy pounds the strike zone and they hammer him...I can live with it better than the nibble crap.

As for Kazmir, he does kill the sox but he has also been shaky lately and TB is pitching him second to protect their bullpen as they think he might be out by the 5th. Go Sox.

Hitmen77
10-02-2008, 11:03 AM
Yes, I'm worried about Javy. I'm expecting the usual meltdown from him once the Rays get some baserunners. How many 2 out runs will we see scored against us today? I'm also expecting our offense to struggle against good pitching today as usual.

But they play the games for a reason. This is the playoffs - time to out there and win 11 games this month despite our weaknesses.

102605
10-02-2008, 11:05 AM
Javy can erase more than a handful of past games by going out today and performing like he has the potential to do.

I hope he can do that. At least we have that possibility.

CLR01
10-02-2008, 01:07 PM
I think it's good that we are worried and not cocky or overconfident. Keeps us focused. Overconfidence can spell a team's doom.


Hate to break it to you but our feelings, as posted at WSI, don't affect the team.

TDog
10-02-2008, 01:27 PM
I'm no more worried about Vazquez pitching the first game than I would be any of the other starters. I've seen Vazquez pitch great this year, and I've seen him struggle. I've seen all the starters struggle. I was worried about Danks pitching against the Twins Tuesday -- on three days' rest. He was coming off his worst start of the season, rivaled by his previous worst start of the season, against the Twins in April at home.

People say Vazquez isn't a big-game pitcher, but Danks wasn't a big-game pitcher against the Indians coming off the sweep by the Twins. Then he turned around and pitched the greatest-to-date game of his career.

It all starts with the starting pitching. Always, if I'm not worried, I'm concerned with the White Sox starting pitching.

sunofgold
10-02-2008, 01:36 PM
JV will receive an 'earlier-than-usual' hook if he struggles. However, I am hoping that JV pitches a great game. GO JV. Do well and you will be promoted to being called V.

EndemicSox
10-02-2008, 02:12 PM
Of course I'm worried about him, he's a choker...

Is the TBS audio/video skipping on anyone else?

EndemicSox
10-02-2008, 02:33 PM
Anyone have a daughter with a good arm? Rather have her on the mound right now...probably handles stress a little better than Mrs. Vasquez. Pitching the Richard was obviously the no-brainer...Javy has no cajones...

stevied23
10-02-2008, 02:35 PM
I see he's *****ing the bed once again. Longria has 2 HR in 4 Innings. SIGH

Kilroy
10-02-2008, 02:35 PM
Of course I'm worried about him, he's a choker...

Is the TBS audio/video skipping on anyone else?

He's not a choker, he just blows. Hard.

XOS THW
10-02-2008, 02:43 PM
Just need to keep it close for now.

soxinem1
10-02-2008, 02:54 PM
After watching Dempster implode yesterday, it reinforced again that in the playoffs...hitting is hard, walking is a bonus. Javy absolutely has to throw strikes. Make them hit the ball,Javy. And in the cold when they get to Chicago ,even harder to hit. Teams whose pitchers throw strikes always win in the playoffs cuz no one seems to string hits together.

If Javy pounds the strike zone and they hammer him...I can live with it better than the nibble crap.

As for Kazmir, he does kill the sox but he has also been shaky lately and TB is pitching him second to protect their bullpen as they think he might be out by the 5th. Go Sox.

And they are hitting it pretty hard off him today.

soxrme
10-02-2008, 03:17 PM
Letting him give up 5 runs if rediculous. Lousy managing, ask Steve Stone

ChiSoxFan81
10-02-2008, 03:18 PM
Well, now we all know we can count on Javy for a quality ****.

RockJock07
10-02-2008, 03:20 PM
I wish someone would punch JAvy in the face and tell him to wake up, awful display of pitching today. So sick of him.

Kilroy
10-02-2008, 03:26 PM
I think I hate Javy as much as I hated Jamie Navarro. Maybe more.

pagansoxfan
10-02-2008, 03:27 PM
piss poor managing by ozzie!!!! javy had nothing. when you give up 4 runs in three innings, that should've been more than enough to prove javy was done. thanks ozzie for helping us fall 1-0.

khan
10-02-2008, 03:28 PM
Admittedly, I wasn't too worried before the game. I thought he'd do well...

If there was one thing that could've been done differently, it would be for Brian Anderson to have been playing; I have no doubt that he would've caught Iwamura's triple, and possibly limited the damage done in that inning.

jshanahanjr
10-02-2008, 03:30 PM
He's done. Go with the 3 man if we get by this round.

Kilroy
10-02-2008, 03:30 PM
piss poor managing by ozzie!!!! javy had nothing. when you give up 4 runs in three innings, that should've been more than enough to prove javy was done. thanks ozzie for helping us fall 1-0.

Ozzie shouldn't have let him pitch to Longoria the thrid time. But that's all I'll put on Ozzie. The rest is on Vasquez. He sucks like a $2 whore.

RockJock07
10-02-2008, 03:42 PM
Richard is dealing right now, (knocking on wood) we need him to keep us right here.

PutItOnBoardYES
10-02-2008, 03:42 PM
piss poor managing by ozzie!!!! javy had nothing. when you give up 4 runs in three innings, that should've been more than enough to prove javy was done. thanks ozzie for helping us fall 1-0.

I cant agree more. You come out and tell the media this guy sucks in big games yet you've now thrown him in the three of the biggest games of the year and he's given you nothing each time. Great managment. Rays hit twenty points lower vs leftys, which is why Guillen is going with Buehrle, Danks in games 2 and 3. Then if thats the case go with Richard in game 1. Screw experience.

EndemicSox
10-02-2008, 03:44 PM
Ozzie deserves a little egg on his face for this debacle...it 'aint necassarily his fault, but he should know better than to start a mentally weak individual with no stones in a playoff game. I'm hoping he simply followed orders from Kenny Williams.

5 outs, 5 K's for Clayton...welcome to the 2009 rotation bud! Javy, enjoy your time in Seattle/Washington/Baltimore/Tokyo/etc...if for some god-forsaken reason you find yourself in a White Sox uniform next year, please grow a pair!

Wickel
10-02-2008, 03:47 PM
Ozzie shouldn't have let him pitch to Longoria the thrid time. But that's all I'll put on Ozzie. The rest is on Vasquez. He sucks like a $2 whore.

Disagree. This is totally all Ozzie. He's the field boss, the leader. He knows his team and even commented that Vasquez is not at his best right now. After the first sign of trouble, he should have yanked him. That's what a leader does--especially if a game of this magnitude. Richard looks like he's saving the day, though. Don't fret just yet.

kitekrazy
10-02-2008, 04:02 PM
After the first sign of trouble, he should have yanked him.

That's tough do to with a pitcher like Crappez. He might load the bases and the strike out the side.

soulfly
10-02-2008, 04:11 PM
Before the excuse was he pitched on 3 days rest. This time he doesn't have that excuse. He's a terrible pitcher. Can't come through when you need a good outing from him. At least the other pitchers on this team have realized how important these games are. Vazquez doesn't deserve to pitch again this post season. Hell, I don't even want to watch him ever again in a Sox uniform.

kevingrt
10-02-2008, 04:31 PM
Before the excuse was he pitched on 3 days rest. This time he doesn't have that excuse. He's a terrible pitcher. Can't come through when you need a good outing from him. At least the other pitchers on this team have realized how important these games are. Vazquez doesn't deserve to pitch again this post season. Hell, I don't even want to watch him ever again in a Sox uniform.

We only have three starters on this team and since we played two extra games Ozzie had no choice but to start Javy. I guess he could have pitched Clayton but you have no clue what you will get from him. And I know he pitched great, but look at what the team did the second time the Rays saw him, get base hits and walk. So, Ozzie had no real other choice.

We need our three big studs to go get them now.

russ99
10-02-2008, 04:31 PM
Disagree. This is totally all Ozzie. He's the field boss, the leader. He knows his team and even commented that Vasquez is not at his best right now. After the first sign of trouble, he should have yanked him. That's what a leader does--especially if a game of this magnitude. Richard looks like he's saving the day, though. Don't fret just yet.

And yet, Ozzie needs to go with the guys he knows who have a track record. Starting Richard in a the playoffs could have blown up on him and messed with his confidence.

You can't say Ozzie didn't give Vazquez every chance. I'd even wonder if he'd make the playoff roster now if we somehow grab 3 games.

I have a much bigger beef that Javy right now, why we can't score runs unless it's a homer.

soulfly
10-02-2008, 04:36 PM
We only have three starters on this team and since we played two extra games Ozzie had no choice but to start Javy. I guess he could have pitched Clayton but you have no clue what you will get from him. And I know he pitched great, but look at what the team did the second time the Rays saw him, get base hits and walk. So, Ozzie had no real other choice.

We need our three big studs to go get them now.


I agree, you don't know what you will get from Clayton. However, it's been a lock lately exactly what you will get from Javy. I would take a guy that you don't know how he will fare in his 5 or 6 innings than a guy whos crapped him self the last 4+ outings hes had when he was called upon to deliver a big game.

PaleHoseGeorge
10-02-2008, 05:30 PM
I'm not worried at all. Today it was decided Javy won't start another Sox game for the remainder of this season. From now on he's strictly a bullpen decoy. He's Damaso Marte all over again.

He'll make a great decoy out in the bullpen. Ozzie will have him warming up 1-2 times every game whenever the opposition strings together even 2 hits. Mind you, Ozzie won't EVER bring Javy into a game because that would be stupid. Instead the other manager will have to keep guessing what Ozzie is up to.

If Ozzie needs a fourth starter, it will be Richard. Javy will be what Ozzie needs to strengthen our bullpen: Keep the other manager guessing what might happen next.

As for 2009, don't expect Javy to be anywhere but the South Side because KW won't give him away and that's all any other GM will offer. Vazquez is still a useful #5 starter, not unlike what Jon Garland became right before he finally started engaging his brain while on the mound.

Everyone is a winner in this plan.
:cool:

Soxfest
10-02-2008, 05:39 PM
I loathe JV :angry:

Heffalump
10-02-2008, 07:14 PM
nope, I'm not worried about Javy. I actually am relieved to finally realize/accept that he is a gutless pitcher that craps himself in big games. Oh well.

MB will hopefully pick us up tomorrow

The Thomenator
10-02-2008, 07:38 PM
The man has no testicles. And if he did, they are on a beach in Puerto Rico.

turners56
10-02-2008, 07:46 PM
Javy still has his family and his house. And the last time I checked, Puerto Rico still exists. He'll be just fine.

thomas35forever
10-02-2008, 07:50 PM
I loathe JV :angry:
A JV team would be perfect for him at this point.

gobears1987
10-02-2008, 08:12 PM
I think it's time for us to say goodbye to the Beach Boy. Let him go to his beach and pitch for someone else, preferably within our own division. I'd love to see the loser pitch for Detroit, Minnesota, or Cleveland.

SoxandtheCityTee
10-02-2008, 08:47 PM
I'm not worried at all. Today it was decided Javy won't start another Sox game for the remainder of this season. From now on he's strictly a bullpen decoy. He's Damaso Marte all over again.

He'll make a great decoy out in the bullpen. Ozzie will have him warming up 1-2 times every game whenever the opposition strings together even 2 hits. Mind you, Ozzie won't EVER bring Javy into a game because that would be stupid. Instead the other manager will have to keep guessing what Ozzie is up to.

If Ozzie needs a fourth starter, it will be Richard. Javy will be what Ozzie needs to strengthen our bullpen: Keep the other manager guessing what might happen next.

As for 2009, don't expect Javy to be anywhere but the South Side because KW won't give him away and that's all any other GM will offer. Vazquez is still a useful #5 starter, not unlike what Jon Garland became right before he finally started engaging his brain while on the mound.

Everyone is a winner in this plan.
:cool:

I'm SoxandtheCityTee, and I endorse this plan.

Frater Perdurabo
10-02-2008, 09:15 PM
I'm SoxandtheCityTee, and I endorse this plan.

Me too.

But I also want to sign Derek Lowe as a free agent this offseason.

slavko
10-02-2008, 09:39 PM
He gets hit. At least he didn't walk a bunch.

I, too, have a plan for 2009.

Jenks back to where he was before we got him, a starter. He has 4 effective pitches. Stretch him out in spring training.

Javy as closer. He usually can give you a good inning. He does not start again this year.

turners56
10-02-2008, 09:56 PM
He gets hit. At least he didn't walk a bunch.

I, too, have a plan for 2009.

Jenks back to where he was before we got him, a starter. He has 4 effective pitches. Stretch him out in spring training.

Javy as closer. He usually can give you a good inning. He does not start again this year.

No. Jenks has had arm troubles in the past. Making him pitch over 180 innings in a year is asking way too much. He's a reliever for a reason.

Cuck the Fubs
10-02-2008, 10:07 PM
I love Javvy.................................



As our 5th starter :D:

StillMissOzzie
10-02-2008, 11:27 PM
Javy will pitch 7 innings gives up 3 runs and have 8 K's

Sox will win 6-4

Ouch!

I'm not worried at all. Today it was decided Javy won't start another Sox game for the remainder of this season. From now on he's strictly a bullpen decoy. He's Damaso Marte all over again.

He'll make a great decoy out in the bullpen....
:cool:

I agree that Javy won't start again in this post-season run. I just wonder who will get fooled by this decoy action, if us Sox fans aren't.

nope, I'm not worried about Javy. I actually am relieved to finally realize/accept that he is a gutless pitcher that craps himself in big games. Oh well.

MB will hopefully pick us up tomorrow
I too am no longer worried about Javy. I have come to accept him as, at best, a #4 starter, a .500 W-L inning-eater that crumbles under pressure. What really stinks is that he proves once again the old Bill Veeck credo about the high price of mediocrity. I blame the Cubs and a few other deep-pocket teams for driving up the price for pitching like this. Used to be that $10M a year would get you something decent...

SMO
:(:

gobears1987
10-02-2008, 11:54 PM
I love Javvy.................................




Pitching for our opposition in the AL Central.

Adele_H
10-03-2008, 12:17 AM
I'm not worried at all.

No, I don't see why losing Game 1 of a best-of-5 series - while being throroughly out-played & out-managed.... would be cause for concern of any kind.

By cracky, everything is hunky dory dandy. The Sky is Rising!

.

Nellie_Fox
10-03-2008, 12:18 AM
No, I don't see why losing Game 1 of a best-of-5 series - while being throroughly out-played & out-managed.... would be cause for concern of any kind.

By cracky, everything is hunky dory dandy in Soxland. The Sky is Rising!I thought you were going to self-ban if the Sox didn't win the division by five games.

Adele_H
10-03-2008, 12:22 AM
I thought you were going to self-ban if the Sox didn't win the division by five games.

I don't believe the end of season is upon us just yet, my friend.

Be patient, I'll be gone soon enough.

WhiteSoxRich
10-03-2008, 12:49 AM
I'm just really pissed...There was no reason our first game had to end like this.

Adele_H
10-03-2008, 01:08 AM
There was no reason our first game had to end like this.

Does "Sox played poorly in every aspect of the game other than long-relief" not qualify as a good enough reason for losing?

The whole "3 opponents in 3 days" playoff-like atomosphere thing was really neat - and I know I certainly will never forget the electric 163rd game which made me feel like I was 7 years old again....

But the fact remains: today Sox played like the team that deserves a quick dismissal from the 1st round. Had we won, it would have been because the inexperienced Rays choked.

So I really hope the big lessons were learned today and that the all-around level of play by the Sox is MUCH improved tomorrow. Let's even the series. :bandance:

Konerko05
10-03-2008, 01:36 AM
It would be nice if the Sox offense showed up tomorrow. I'm not talking about Dewayne Wise either. It's pretty sad when Wise basically produces all the offense in a playoff game.

Maybe Cabrera can stop embarassing himself, and get on base a couple times.

Buehrle is going to have to pitch a gem.

Hopefully tomorrow we see a much improved outfield defense. Sox are really missing Crede at third base right now. Anything hit to the right of Cabrera and left of Uribe is a guaranteed base hit.

Adele_H
10-03-2008, 01:54 AM
It would be nice if the Sox offense showed up tomorrow. I'm not talking about Dewayne Wise either. It's pretty sad when Wise basically produces all the offense in a playoff game.

Maybe Cabrera can stop embarassing himself, and get on base a couple times.

Buehrle is going to have to pitch a gem.

Hopefully tomorrow we see a much improved outfield defense. Sox are really missing Crede at third base right now. Anything hit to the right of Cabrera and left of Uribe is a guaranteed base hit.

Agree on several accounts.

When you rely on Dewayne "golf swing" Wise to hit HR to even have a chance of winning the game.... you're in trouble.

Cabrera is still swinging like he's batting 3rd for the Montreal Expos. Right-handed Ray Durham but with less power & without the walks. Needs to watch some tape on Kenny Lofton.

Yeah, Uribe's range and anticipation skillz on plays to his LEFT leave much to be desired. Makes me rethink the whole idea of bringing him back in 2009. Likewise, Crede probably would have fared better in a critical bases-loaded situation at the plate today, I have a feeling; Joe lived for those moments...

.

The Dude
10-03-2008, 03:08 AM
Agreed. He is a solid pitcher and he knows he needs to perform well. I really have a good feeling about it.....

I was wrong. :whiner:

Javy sucks. Our offense needs to step up or we will be as toast as the cubs.

WSox597
10-03-2008, 06:08 AM
Javy still has his family and his house. And the last time I checked, Puerto Rico still exists. He'll be just fine.

Perhaps we can all take up a collection and send him there, gift-wrapped.

I'm in for at least $20.

Kilroy
10-03-2008, 06:55 AM
Disagree. This is totally all Ozzie. He's the field boss, the leader. He knows his team and even commented that Vasquez is not at his best right now. After the first sign of trouble, he should have yanked him. That's what a leader does--especially if a game of this magnitude. Richard looks like he's saving the day, though. Don't fret just yet.

After thinking more about this last night, I have to agree. Ozzie should never have sent the guy out there.

johnr1note
10-03-2008, 08:49 AM
After thinking more about this last night, I have to agree. Ozzie should never have sent the guy out there.

Indeed, I agree. while there were other factors, in a nutshell, Vazquez lost the game for us.

Richard, who should have started, pitched well in relief.

Hopefully we can still come back and win the series.

soxfan1965
10-03-2008, 12:25 PM
Is Javy really locked in to the end of 2010? If so, this may be a Jamie Navarro situation. It's interesting in this article back in Mar 2007 the concerns about Javy came true http://chicagoist.com/2007/03/07/sox_extend_vasquezs_contract.php


And Contreras is locked in to the end of 2009. Between the two, it sounds like that is $21.5 million tied up in 2009.

I wonder if they still use a diminished skills clause in their contracts; if not, they should.

areilly
10-03-2008, 12:35 PM
Is Javy really locked in to the end of 2010? If so, this may be a Jamie Navarro situation. It's interesting in this article back in Mar 2007 the concerns about Javy came true http://chicagoist.com/2007/03/07/sox_extend_vasquezs_contract.php


And Contreras is locked in to the end of 2009. Between the two, it sounds like that is $21.5 million tied up in 2009.

I wonder if they still use a diminished skills clause in their contracts; if not, they should.

Two more years of great performances in meaningless games against garbage teams. Awesome.

But I don't know if you could call it a case of diminished skills; Javy's been like this since his Expo days,

Nellie_Fox
10-03-2008, 01:25 PM
I wonder if they still use a diminished skills clause in their contracts; if not, they should.I could be wrong (often am) but I'm pretty sure that was a very rare clause, and required a specific definition of what constituted "diminished skills."

mcm3312
10-03-2008, 01:37 PM
i think its kind of ridiculous to get on here and bash Javy, calling him a loser and saying he's a worthless member of the team. For 3 years Javy's been a nice number 4 starter for the sox, but thats the thing, he's just a number 4 starter. He's pitched poorly lately but so what. Atleast he still fights hard and challenges the hitters. There could be way worse things, like guys who roll over and quit when things aren't going well
Im not saying that Javy should pitch again for the sox (in fact i dont think so) but to come on the internet and bash a guy who has just been hit hard and hasn't had good stuff is childish.
The guys been a good teammate and great member of the chicago community, give him a break and realize that he's just struggled this second half and its only a game

areilly
10-03-2008, 03:21 PM
i think its kind of ridiculous to get on here and bash Javy, calling him a loser and saying he's a worthless member of the team. For 3 years Javy's been a nice number 4 starter for the sox, but thats the thing, he's just a number 4 starter. He's pitched poorly lately but so what. Atleast he still fights hard and challenges the hitters. There could be way worse things, like guys who roll over and quit when things aren't going well
Im not saying that Javy should pitch again for the sox (in fact i dont think so) but to come on the internet and bash a guy who has just been hit hard and hasn't had good stuff is childish.
The guys been a good teammate and great member of the chicago community, give him a break and realize that he's just struggled this second half and its only a game

1. Last year, Javy had the best season of all Sox pitchers. After so many flashes of brilliance, was it out of line to expect him to finally be reaching his potential?

2. There is about more than getting hit hard and being off for a start or two. There's a reason they (I) call him "Five and Dive."

3. His big-game track record - no, his entire career - actually suggests he is the very definition of a guy who quits when the going gets tough.

hi im skot
10-03-2008, 03:23 PM
1. Last year, Javy had the best season of all Sox pitchers. After so many flashes of brilliance, was it out of line to expect him to finally be reaching his potential?

2. There is about more than getting hit hard and being off for a start or two. There's a reason they (I) call him "Five and Dive."

3. His big-game track record - no, his entire career - actually suggests he is the very definition of a guy who quits when the going gets tough.

Well said, sir.

/close thread

EndemicSox
10-03-2008, 03:39 PM
I'm all for the 6 man rotation next year. Pitch Javy against the scrubs, and skip his starts when he may need his testes...

areilly
10-03-2008, 03:53 PM
I'm all for the 6 man rotation next year. Pitch Javy against the scrubs, and skip his starts when he may need his testes...

Alternately, he could be the single most dominant mop-up specialist in the history of baseball. Bring him in to start the sixth with a 9-2 lead and I bet he could hold them scoreless while striking out 8 to finish the game.