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EuroSox35
09-29-2008, 11:40 PM
I think this guy is a butcher in the field (honestly, you could put some of the blame for both runs on him. On the first run, I don't know what to call that move he tried on the wall on that double. And for the second, I was shocked that the Cabrera double wasn't cut off and was sure it'd be a single). Took some horrible routes in Minny as well.

But the positives, speed (which the lineup is lacking, and could maybe turn around an offense), and probably more likely to get hits compared to Swisher. Just curious on everyone's thoughts...

oeo
09-29-2008, 11:43 PM
Griffey in LF isn't happening. If it was going to, it would have happened a month ago.

guillensdisciple
09-29-2008, 11:44 PM
I am still and will always be on the Nick Swisher bandwagon, until they pry Jacoby Ellisbury from the Red Sox:redneck.

Eddo144
09-29-2008, 11:50 PM
Wise is indeed a terrible outfielder. Griffey, while slower, at least takes better routes to the ball.

Wise's best attributes are his speed and the fact that he can be a left-handed pinch hitter. He can be useful near the end of a close game, where his speed could mean the difference between a one-run loss and a tie game. He is an asset as a situational player.

Him playing LF for the majority of the innings in crunch time is like having Thornton start games. He's effective pitching one inning late in games and getting lefties out. But he could not be a starter. Wise should be treated the same way - as a "relief position player", if you will.

A.T. Money
09-30-2008, 12:05 AM
Try Anderson in left. Defensively, it's an upgrade, and it can't get any worse offensively. Wise has been brutal down the stretch.

The Dude
09-30-2008, 12:09 AM
The problem here is that this is a typical Ozzie Guillen, "I'm the ****ing manager and I make the ****ing lineup" type of situation.
Wise is a terrible outfielder and a worse guy at the top of the lineup. The only job he should have on this team is pinch runner and spot starter. Give the playing time to BA and Swisher and go with it Ozzie!!!!!

hawkjt
09-30-2008, 12:29 AM
No way do you change the lineup for tomorrow.
You have won two in a row, blackburn is a righthander for Wise to hit against and I will take my chances with him in the outfield for the next nine innings to win the AL Central. He can steal, the only sox that can.
His run in the 6th sparked the whole offense.

TDog
09-30-2008, 12:55 AM
Swisher is a better defensive leftfielder than Wise. Wise isn't in the game for his glove.

forrestg
09-30-2008, 01:45 AM
I vote for Wise playing in left BA in center, Swisher is really bad at the plate lately. Wise is much more capable on the base paths.. He gets some surprising hits and can lay down a bunt.. BA has hit Blackburn well. Griffey should start at DH because he too has had good luck hitting against Blackburn. We will still have better than average pinch hitters with THome, Swisher, and Hall.. Not to mention we have one quick base runner in the form of Jerry Owens.. We have to play defense our infield is decent and as someone mentioned that Swisher and Griffey take better routes to the ball we need someone like Wise that can come in and take away the Twins bloop hits..As long as Danks keeps the big boys of Mauer and MOrneau in the park we'll be ok... We also have KOnerko, Mr. September.

Mohoney
09-30-2008, 06:26 AM
The guy has flat-out sucked at the plate this week to a 2 for 21 clip with 6 strikeouts. Give Swisher the start tomorrow. Go with the real major league player instead of the career minor leaguer.

OC
TCM
JD
Thome
PK
Griffey
AJ
Swisher
Uribe

Give Danks the best chance to get some support. That means no automatic out in the 2 hole from Dewayne Wise. If Swisher is an automatic out batting 8th, that's not as big a deal. Having an automatic out in the 2nd spot is harder to overcome.

Plus, if we win tomorrow, this should be the lineup in the playoffs.

RedPinStripes
09-30-2008, 06:43 AM
Swisher can do what Wise does accept steal a base. If Swisher could hit .260, Wise wouldn't be on the roster.

KyWhiSoxFan
09-30-2008, 06:59 AM
In the biggest game of the year, you play the guy you made the big trade for, Swisher. Wise has been showing why he is a AAA player the last two weeks.

Mohoney
09-30-2008, 06:59 AM
Swisher can do what Wise does accept steal a base. If Swisher could hit .260, Wise wouldn't be on the roster.

Wise doesn't have anywhere near Swisher's power.

RedPinStripes
09-30-2008, 07:31 AM
Wise doesn't have anywhere near Swisher's power.


Wise don't belong on the roster.

Chez
09-30-2008, 07:37 AM
DeWayne Wise is Ralph Garr Lite. That said, he's had some huge moments this season and definitely deserves to be on the playoff roster. I would start Swisher tonight, but Ozzie likes Wise's speed at the top of the line-up so I won't be surprised to see Wise in the starting line-up.

Mohoney
09-30-2008, 07:38 AM
Wise don't belong on the roster.

Whoops. I totally missed the point of your post. Sorry about that.

kittle42
09-30-2008, 08:10 AM
I can see the points for both Swisher and Wise. I'd still take Swisher. At least he is a major league baseball player.

Obviously, Anderson is not going to play, especially against a righty. he hasn't basically all season. He surely won't now.

Griffey should play everyday right now. Why anyone thinks he is going to play LF is baffling, seeing as he hasn't played one second there since 2002 and has only played 3 games in LF his entire career.

esbrechtel
09-30-2008, 08:21 AM
To be honest I hate the fake bunt then take a full cut EVERY at bat....

slavko
09-30-2008, 08:50 AM
He's lost in left field, about as bad as, well, Quentin or Podsednik. Ralph Garr, no.

seventyseven
09-30-2008, 10:01 AM
Swisher's line against Minnesota at home this year:
12 for 33, 4 HR, 10 RBI, .417 OBP

Against Blackburn at home:
2 for 7, 1 RBI, 1 BB, no K's

Against Blackburn overall in 2008:
3 for 9, 2 RBI, 3 BB, no K's

Wise is hitless against Blackburn in 2 AB's.

I'm on the fence on this one. Wise's speed is so important to this lineup, but Swisher's power (should it be rekindled) could offset the current struggles of Thome and AJP from the left-side.

Ozzie will likely stick with Wise, but you never know.

hi im skot
09-30-2008, 10:02 AM
Swisher pisses me off, but I start him tonight.

sox1970
09-30-2008, 10:04 AM
I think Wise will start. Swisher was on the Score this morning. He didn't sound like a happy camper, so I think he knows his days are numbered.

stevied23
09-30-2008, 10:07 AM
Yeah I'm listening to that at work. He said he had no idea whether he would be in the lineup tonight or in the playoffs if they made it. He also said he just keeps showing up to the ballpark and getting his work in. Sounds like he's done.

Eddo144
09-30-2008, 10:09 AM
Wise's speed is good in certain situations. That's why you keep him on the bench, so that you can choose exactly when to use it.

oeo
09-30-2008, 10:09 AM
I think Wise will start. Swisher was on the Score this morning. He didn't sound like a happy camper, so I think he knows his days are numbered.

Alright, who wants to put money on Swisher staying?

He's not going anywhere.

Craig Grebeck
09-30-2008, 10:10 AM
Alright, who wants to put money on Swisher staying?

He's not going anywhere.
I'm with you OEO. Damn, we live in a knee-jerk society.

ajismyhero
09-30-2008, 10:11 AM
Alright, who wants to put money on Swisher staying?

He's not going anywhere.

Hope you're right. The drama that ozzie insists upon having with one player every season is pretty ridiculous.

kjhanson
09-30-2008, 10:11 AM
"What have you done for me lately?"

Wise is 2 for his last 21, and yesterday's run was his first in 24 plate appearances (2 SBs in that timeframe).

Swisher is 2 for his last 14.

My personal opinion when deciding between two struggling players is to go with the one that gives you the most upside. I think you gotta start Swish and hope he gets a couple walks to extend a couple rallies.

hawkjt
09-30-2008, 10:11 AM
Tonite's weather will mean speed is more likely to help them than power.
Wise has started the last two victories...do not tamper with success.
Now, I can see both sides as with swirling winds ,defense could be tough in the outfield and Swish is better in the outfield defensively.
My one thought is that gardy will be going to the bullpen early and often so the Wise lefty matchup vs righty blackburn may only exist for one at bat. So Swish should be ready to come in against any of their lefties.

All hands on deck tonite...be ready,Swish.

ajismyhero
09-30-2008, 10:13 AM
Tonite's weather will mean speed is more likely to help them than power.
Wise has started the last two victories...do not tamper with success.
Now, I can see both sides as with swirling winds ,defense could be tough in the outfield and Swish is better in the outfield defensively.
My one thought is that gardy will be going to the bullpen early and often so the Wise lefty matchup vs righty blackburn may only exist for one at bat. So Swish should be ready to come in against any of their lefties.

All hands on deck tonite...be ready,Swish.

Yup. And BA needs to be ready with some defensive heroics also. Be great to actually catch one of their crappy, bloopy hits.

sox1970
09-30-2008, 10:13 AM
Alright, who wants to put money on Swisher staying?

He's not going anywhere.

I'm not saying he's gone for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised. My opinion is that Konerko and Swisher cannot be on the same team next year.

Maybe the Nationals would be a good fit for Swish.

rdwj
09-30-2008, 10:13 AM
I hope Swish gets the start. He's having a rough year, but Wise has NEVER been any good.

oeo
09-30-2008, 10:13 AM
Hope you're right. The drama that ozzie insists upon having with one player every season is pretty ridiculous.

There isn't drama, it's just overblown media BS. Swisher is frustrated. There's a difference between frustration and wanting out of town. He looked perfectly fine to me when he played this weekend. :dunno:

ajismyhero
09-30-2008, 10:16 AM
There isn't drama, it's just overblown media BS. Swisher is frustrated. There's a difference between frustration and wanting out of town. He looked perfectly fine to me when he played this weekend. :dunno:

Whatever, call it whatever you want to.

sox1970
09-30-2008, 10:18 AM
I hope Swish gets the start. He's having a rough year, but Wise has NEVER been any good.

He's had his moments. So has Swisher. I probably would have stuck with Swisher, but if you're asking who I think will be in there tonight--Wise.

oeo
09-30-2008, 10:19 AM
Whatever, call it whatever you want to.

Alright, and you go ahead and listen to everything you hear from the media.

Earlier this year when Paulie was losing playing time, he was frustrated too. He didn't LOOK like he wanted to be around, but in reality all he wanted was to be playing. Paulie and Swisher are competitors, they want to be out there helping their team. Swish is frustrated a)with his season and b)his lack of playing time because of his season. Things will blow over.

D. TODD
09-30-2008, 10:19 AM
I like what Wise has done and he brings some much needed speed to the lineup, but I think I would give Swish the chance to do some damage against Blackburn.

jabrch
09-30-2008, 10:20 AM
Alright, who wants to put money on Swisher staying?

He's not going anywhere.

I agree. No way Kenny sells low.

tstrike2000
09-30-2008, 10:22 AM
I think Ozzie may give Swish a shot tonight. Yeah Wise has speed but seems to have two states to his brain, dead and half dead. He'll flash the occasional great at bat, base path decision, or decent play in the outfield, but the rest of the time we're just not sure what's going on up there.

Jim Shorts
09-30-2008, 10:22 AM
Hope you're right. The drama that ozzie insists upon having with one player every season is pretty ridiculous.

Why are you of the belief that this is Ozzie created drama?

I don't see it.

Swish is pouting and that's disappointing. However, he also said on the score he has no one to blame but himself.

hi im skot
09-30-2008, 10:23 AM
Hope you're right. The drama that ozzie insists upon having with one player every season is pretty ridiculous.

How is this Ozzie's fault?

Swisher's the one who sucks lately.

Craig Grebeck
09-30-2008, 10:23 AM
Wise seems to have two states to his brain, dead and half dead. He'll flash the occasional great at bat, base path decision, or decent play in the outfield, but the rest of the time it's switched off.
What? He may not have much talent, but don't insult his intelligence. That's as low as insulting a player's manhood because he hasn't performed well...oh, nevermind.

jabrch
09-30-2008, 10:26 AM
Why are you of the belief that this is Ozzie created drama?

I don't see it.

Managers in this town get too much blame when things go wrong, and too much credit when they go well. As long as a manager is marginally competent, they mostly will end up with similar results. I'm of the ilk that if you exclude the few simply terrible managers (Bevington) that the overwhelming majority will end up within a game or two of eachother if they had similar talent. At the end of the day, players play.

oeo
09-30-2008, 10:26 AM
He's had his moments. So has Swisher. I probably would have stuck with Swisher, but if you're asking who I think will be in there tonight--Wise.

I'm a supporter of Nick Swisher (you might call me a FONS or a FODT), and I think Wise should be starting. It's tough watching Swisher not pull the trigger. And for those that say that's just the way he is, well, that's just not true. Unless in his Oakland days, he only hit us hard, he could pull the trigger and in big situations, too. I think Swish will come back next year and have a good season, but I just don't trust him right now.

Wise was a huge part of last night's win. Yeah, that was a ****ty play on Inge's double, but he came right back and got things started in our huge inning. I pick Wise because I don't like our other options. But honestly, I don't think this will be the deciding factor in the game. It's going to come down to Johnny Danks, the middle of the lineup, and the bullpen.

tstrike2000
09-30-2008, 10:27 AM
What? He may not have much talent, but don't insult his intelligence. That's as low as insulting a player's manhood because he hasn't performed well...oh, nevermind.

I'm not saying Wise is dumb as I don't know the man. I'm just saying that I get the impression from watching him that he seems to concentrate on what's he's doing and then he kind of just goes into cruise control.

soxrme
09-30-2008, 10:28 AM
I would prefer Swisher tonight, I do not like Wise in the outfield, he is not exactly a good defensive guy. I think Swisher is better and hopefully can provide some pop with the bat.

swisherfan
09-30-2008, 10:32 AM
They aren't going to get rid of him with the contract he is under..........very reasonable......don't forget we asked this guy to bat leadoff at the beginning of the year, that has not helped him.........he is in between every at bat, taking strikes, swinging at balls............reminds me a Crede a few years ago..........he was 0-2 every AB,

PolishPower83
09-30-2008, 10:34 AM
Swish Swish Swish! He's reached base in 6 out of 12 at bats against Blackburn this season and he's due. Start him, Ozzie.

asindc
09-30-2008, 10:37 AM
Swisher is not going anywhere. He is unhappy about not playing (which he should be) but he knows it's because he has played poorly lately.

As much as I advocate speed at the top of the lineup, I prefer Swish in LF tonight since the Twinkees are a contact hitting/speed lineup. I initially thought that Wise's speed would make up for his lack of technique out there, but it seems that, if anything, he relies on his speed to his detriment.

dwalteroo
09-30-2008, 10:40 AM
I'm with you OEO.

Agreed. Swish is having a well-below-average year, and we would be selling low now. I don't see Kenny doing that.

Eddo144
09-30-2008, 11:14 AM
They aren't going to get rid of him with the contract he is under..........very reasonable......don't forget we asked this guy to bat leadoff at the beginning of the year, that has not helped him.........he is in between every at bat, taking strikes, swinging at balls............reminds me a Crede a few years ago..........he was 0-2 every AB,
Actually, that's the one thing he's still not doing. He only swings at 18.86% of all pitches outside the strike zone, which is good for 18th best in all of baseball this year.

(Courtesy of fangraphs.com http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=4&season=2008&month=0 (O-Swing%))

oeo
09-30-2008, 11:18 AM
Actually, that's the one thing he's still not doing. He only swings at 18.86% of all pitches outside the strike zone, which is good for 18th best in all of baseball this year.

(Courtesy of fangraphs.com http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=4&season=2008&month=0 (O-Swing%))

His problem is he doesn't swing enough. He can't pull the trigger; every time he just locks up.

That's not the Swisher I remember facing when he was with the A's. That Swisher would work the count, get a pitch to his liking, and blast it.

Eddo144
09-30-2008, 12:17 PM
His problem is he doesn't swing enough. He can't pull the trigger; every time he just locks up.

That's not the Swisher I remember facing when he was with the A's. That Swisher would work the count, get a pitch to his liking, and blast it.
No argument from me here. While I appreciate his discipline, I get the feeling his struggles this year have made him more hesitant to swing at borderline pitches, which results in more called strikes (and strikeouts), which results in him facing more pitcher's counts.

I have confidence he'll get his act together in the offseason, based on his previous performance.

champagne030
09-30-2008, 12:40 PM
Wise has NEVER been any good.

Hey now. He had a good week in June and again in September this year, but you're pretty much correct. He's approaching 4000 minor league AB's - this screams career minor league player. And looking at his minor league stats, a fairly ****ty one at that....

Tragg
09-30-2008, 01:10 PM
At the end of the day, players play.
And managers decide who plays and who's on the roster. IN most cases, the answers are obvious to everyone. But not in all cases.

A.T. Money
09-30-2008, 07:30 PM
Swisher is a better defensive leftfielder than Wise. Wise isn't in the game for his glove.

He isn't in there for his bat either......

EndemicSox
09-30-2008, 07:57 PM
Seriously, get Wise out of there and Swish in there now....come on Ozzie, Wise should be sitting on the bench in Birmingham right now...

Tragg
09-30-2008, 09:31 PM
Since his 2 HR night in KC, Wise is now batting .097 (3 for 31). He's drawn a few walks, so his OBP is a sterling .200.
Swisher for the playoffs, if you please, Ozzie.

Dibbs
09-30-2008, 09:38 PM
I enjoyed Wise in pinch hit/run situations....even though I thought BA should have got certain starts throughout the year. Now I just can't stand him. He is definitely a bench player.

Madvora
09-30-2008, 09:58 PM
If Griffey doesn't want to play LF, then is it really a problem to put Anderson out there? Obviously you would rather have him in CF, but he may be the best choice over Wise and Swisher right now. Basically you can decide it on defense because none of them are hitting right now.

Soxfest
09-30-2008, 10:03 PM
Wise has no business being in lineup at all!

Daver
09-30-2008, 10:06 PM
You can never have enough guys that should wear their glove on their head on your roster as long as they have speed, the playoff roster should be Wise, Owens, Dye, and Griffey in the outfield.

MeteorsSox4367
09-30-2008, 10:38 PM
If Ozzie wants to play Wise every day, can Walker at least attempt to do something with Wise's long swing? He's supposed to be a speed guy. For Pete's sake, shorten his swing!

Daver
09-30-2008, 10:49 PM
If Ozzie wants to play Wise every day, can Walker at least attempt to do something with Wise's long swing? He's supposed to be a speed guy. For Pete's sake, shorten his swing!

He has speed, none of the other tools matter. Haven't you listened to the wisdom of your fellow Sox fans?

Tragg
09-30-2008, 10:51 PM
You can never have enough guys that should wear their glove on their head on your roster as long as they have speed, the playoff roster should be Wise, Owens, Dye, and Griffey in the outfield.
So sayeth the Oz.

EuroSox35
09-30-2008, 10:57 PM
The Wise experiment needs to end NOW. That's another single turned into a double tonight. Gavin and Danks have really saved his ass. Floyd was amazing getting out of that runner on the corner situation with just 1 run (and though it was Floyds error, it all got set up on Wise turning the single into a double) And we saw how phenomenal Danks was tonight.

FedEx227
09-30-2008, 11:03 PM
Griffey in LF.

Anderson/Swisher in CF.

Tragg
09-30-2008, 11:14 PM
The Wise experiment needs to end NOW. That's another single turned into a double tonight. Gavin and Danks have really saved his ass. Floyd was amazing getting out of that runner on the corner situation with just 1 run (and though it was Floyds error, it all got set up on Wise turning the single into a double) And we saw how phenomenal Danks was tonight.
As much as Guillen is enamored with Dewayne Wise (and similar swing-at-everything hitters with a little speed), if Wise is actually turning singles into doubles on a regular basis, even he will have to seem him as the liability that he is.
Put a defensive outfield out there in the dome....we didn't in Minny and it cost us

The Dude
09-30-2008, 11:57 PM
As much as Guillen is enamored with Dewayne Wise (and similar swing-at-everything hitters with a little speed), if Wise is actually turning singles into doubles on a regular basis, even he will have to seem him as the liability that he is.
Put a defensive outfield out there in the dome....we didn't in Minny and it cost us

Exactly! Swisher wish his OBP, glove, and power will more than make up for what extra speed Wise has. Ozzie please stop being so ****ing stubborn!

SOXandILLINI
10-01-2008, 08:14 AM
The problem here is that this is a typical Ozzie Guillen, "I'm the ****ing manager and I make the ****ing lineup" type of situation.
Wise is a terrible outfielder and a worse guy at the top of the lineup. The only job he should have on this team is pinch runner and spot starter. Give the playing time to BA and Swisher and go with it Ozzie!!!!!

You are 100 percent correct, the Wizard has a man crush on Wise, the pinch hit dinger solidified it, and now he has run him out there to look horrible since. This is Ozzie, what are ya gonna do? Hopefully we win in spite of his stubborness, or perhaps he sees that wise is a late inning PR, and not much more. Give me Nick or BA any day, but we all now Ozzie has got the reverse man crush on BA. Not exactly sure what Brian did to get so deep in the Blizzards dog house, but there he sits to this day. And for all the Ozzie apologists out there don't tell me its because Brians numbers are bad, yeah, no kiddin, but DW numbers are horrendous too, and he is a liability on D.

esbrechtel
10-01-2008, 08:42 AM
Start Swish in LF, bring in BA for CF replacement and start him against Kazmir

kittle42
10-01-2008, 10:21 AM
Start Swish in LF, bring in BA for CF replacement and start him against Kazmir

I agree.