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LITTLE NELL
09-28-2008, 07:40 AM
If these guys don't get hurt, would we have won this thing by now?

Whitesoxfan23
09-28-2008, 07:54 AM
Without a doubt.

LITTLE NELL
09-28-2008, 07:56 AM
Also the Crede we saw in the 1st half.

Whitesoxfan23
09-28-2008, 07:59 AM
Absolutely. I miss the Crede that got the walkoff hit off Joba Chamberlain vs the Yankees at the Cell. He used to be so clutch.

KyWhiSoxFan
09-28-2008, 08:05 AM
Also the Crede we saw in the 1st half.

Crede killed the Twins in the first half, particularly in that series when the Sox swept them. They really missed him in these big games.

The Dude
09-28-2008, 08:32 AM
Also the Crede we saw in the 1st half.

He was good, but I still think him getting All-star was a bit far fetched. As I've said before, it must have been a lifetime achievement award.
I say if just TCQ himself was here out of those injured, we would have won this thing already.

LITTLE NELL
09-28-2008, 08:44 AM
One other guy going down for a month was Linebrink, he was a great 8th inning hold em guy. Paulie was hurt also with the wrist and ab muscle.
Injury wise we do have some excuse for being where we are, in fact since Herm has been the trainer this is the most injury prone year I can remember.

chaerulez
09-28-2008, 08:47 AM
Don't know about Jose, I don't have much faith in him.

He might've won us one more game than he lost us, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did the opposite as well.

Madvora
09-28-2008, 08:53 AM
Absolutely, but we still would have gotten murdered in the playoffs because of that bullpen.

DumpJerry
09-28-2008, 08:57 AM
Losing Jenks and Linebrink sent the bullpen into a death spiral.

manders_01
09-28-2008, 10:25 AM
One other guy going down for a month was Linebrink, he was a great 8th inning hold em guy. Paulie was hurt also with the wrist and ab muscle.
Injury wise we do have some excuse for being where we are, in fact since Herm has been the trainer this is the most injury prone year I can remember.

This is not a nit-pick, I'm asking a bonafide question: Are you insinuating something there? :scratch:

UofCSoxFan
09-28-2008, 10:39 AM
As inconsistent as he was, Contreras was by far the biggest injury of the year. He usually showed up in big games, but if nothing else, he at least could eat some innings and help mask our pathetic bullpen. I think we've won 1 or maybe 2 starts in Contreras's spot since he went down. We also were forced to go to a 4 man rotation which has turned Vazquez and Danks to mush.

DumpJerry
09-28-2008, 10:41 AM
One other guy going down for a month was Linebrink, he was a great 8th inning hold em guy. Paulie was hurt also with the wrist and ab muscle.
Injury wise we do have some excuse for being where we are, in fact since Herm has been the trainer this is the most injury prone year I can remember.
I, too, have erased 2007 from my memory.

LITTLE NELL
09-28-2008, 10:47 AM
This is not a nit-pick, I'm asking a bonafide question: Are you insinuating something there? :scratch:
No, It just seems like we have had more than our share of injuries this year. I think Herm is one of the best trainers around.
Im curious what you thought I was insinuating.

manders_01
09-28-2008, 10:55 AM
No, It just seems like we have had more than our share of injuries this year. I think Herm is one of the best trainers around.
Im curious what you thought I was insinuating.

That he isn't. Seems in the past few days every coach on our bench was getting the call for their head, thought maybe now it was Herm's turn.

I agree with you - I really like Herm. No worries. :smile:

LITTLE NELL
09-28-2008, 11:03 AM
That he isn't. Seems in the past few days every coach on our bench was getting the call for their head, thought maybe now it was Herm's turn.

I agree with you - I really like Herm. No worries. :smile:
Good, we are on the same page, lets win this thing or else I'm going to need Herm to bandage my wrists.

tstrike2000
09-28-2008, 11:04 AM
Losing Jenks and Linebrink sent the bullpen into a death spiral.

Damn straight!

slavko
09-28-2008, 11:11 AM
Losing Jenks and Linebrink sent the bullpen into a death spiral.

True, but the entire pitching staff has been mush for a month, so it goes deeper.

Let me take this opportunity express my guilt for being in love with MacD's stuff. He's as unreliable as ever, needs a sports psychologist or witch doctor or whatever.

southside rocks
09-28-2008, 11:13 AM
I, too, have erased 2007 from my memory.

Me too. I had it chemically removed. :cool:

tstrike2000
09-28-2008, 11:15 AM
Let me take this opportunity express my guilt for being in love with MacD's stuff. He's as unreliable as ever, needs a sports psychologist or witch doctor or whatever.

Or to just be on another team, period.

DrCrawdad
09-28-2008, 11:16 AM
I hate to be a spelling ninny, as I generally ignore it in discussions but in the headline/subject line?

JOSE CONTRERAS

http://www.dailywritingtips.com/wp-content/uploads/dwttest_spelling.gif

SBSoxFan
09-28-2008, 11:20 AM
I think with either one of them the Sox would've already won the division.

Konerkoholic
09-28-2008, 11:34 AM
Ugh. Can we refrain from using injuries as an excuse? A lot of teams have injuries. Tampa Bay lost Crawford and Longoria for weeks, and they pulled it out. Minnesota lost Cuddyer, and they got a big time contribution from Denard Span. We did fine in the first half without Contreras, so why, when he goes down in his first start back, do we cite his absence as a key reason the Sox have sucked in the second half? Losing TCQ was big, but we've got a lot of veteran hitters on this ballclub who have not stepped up to compensate for that. There are no excuses to be made here. The fact is, the players on the field have not performed.

Mohoney
09-28-2008, 11:35 AM
I don't know if Quentin being healthy would have prevented the rest of the lineup from slumping as badly as they have, but I'm pretty sure he would have been good for at least 1 win where he just carried us by himself.

I also think that Contreras would have done at least a game better than Richard and Broadway did if he got those starts.

I hate to blame injuries for anything, but we probably would have wrapped this up by now if we had those 2 guys. It still does not excuse the piss-poor September performances in the lineup or in the bullpen, though.

munchman33
09-28-2008, 12:07 PM
You can't base your hopes on injury prone players and then complain when they get hurt.

Lip Man 1
09-28-2008, 12:14 PM
Nell:

You obviously don't remember 2000 and 2001 do you (i.e. injuries...)

Things were so bad, with so many pitchers going down, and so many "misdiagnosis" (for want of a better word because in some cases the actual injury was different from what was originally thought) that Kenny had to publicly defend his medical staff to the media.

Where do you think Hal got his handle from? LOL.

Lip

chisoxfanatic
09-28-2008, 12:19 PM
True, but the entire pitching staff has been mush for a month, so it goes deeper.

Let me take this opportunity express my guilt for being in love with MacD's stuff. He's as unreliable as ever, needs a sports psychologist or witch doctor or whatever.
Yes, it has been; but, it started with the weakening of the bullpen, and then the starting rotation felt the extra pressure and bended to it.

We're lucky that Minnesota didn't decide to take charge of this division, and that, on the last day of the season, we still have a chance of making the playoffs.

SteveFakeBlood
09-28-2008, 12:28 PM
Ugh. Can we refrain from using injuries as an excuse? A lot of teams have injuries. Tampa Bay lost Crawford and Longoria for weeks, and they pulled it out. Minnesota lost Cuddyer, and they got a big time contribution from Denard Span. We did fine in the first half without Contreras, so why, when he goes down in his first start back, do we cite his absence as a key reason the Sox have sucked in the second half? Losing TCQ was big, but we've got a lot of veteran hitters on this ballclub who have not stepped up to compensate for that. There are no excuses to be made here. The fact is, the players on the field have not performed.

Thanks. The only excuse for this ****ty play is the players on the field. Very good point on TB, they've been playing without Crawford for 6 weeks. It's not the fault of injuries that Dye and Swisher have gone into massive slumps, Alexei has slumped (other than hitting home runs), that the bullpen (excepting Thornton and Jenks mostly...) has been ridiculously inconsistent, Griffey has only hit 3 homers in 100+ at-bats, etc.

I wish people would stop blaming Kenny, Ozzie, injuries, et al. It's the play on the field and I guarantee pretty much every player on the team would say the same thing. Quentin is missed- but Dye, Thome and Swisher could've picked up the slack more (Konerko and Uribe have , but most playoff teams have had at least one devastating injury this year- I hate to say it, but look at the number of key players the Flubs have had go down with injuries for extended lengths of time this year?

What Quentin did for this team on not only a physical, but a psychological level every day (he played harder and with more heart than just about anyone- ironically frustration from that is what led to this injury) he earned the AL MVP award- but we're still bigger than one 26-year-old Left fielder.

~Steve

LoveYourSuit
09-28-2008, 12:28 PM
All this group of 25+ healthy players had to do was WIN 1(ONE) DAMN ADDITIONAL GAME to win the Division. And they failed. ONE GAME!!!!!


Injuries are irrelevant.


It's a an epic Choke Job if they don't get it done.

jabrch
09-28-2008, 12:48 PM
Sure we would have - but that's part of the game. There's a lot of things that could have gone different and would have made this a different season.

None-the-less, we control our own destiny still.

INSox56
09-28-2008, 02:04 PM
I agree with the thinking that losing one or two players doesn't give the rest of the team a pass to suck...but I will make the argument that losing Contreras made a huge difference and would have led us to win. The reason being not solely from his performance because we can all argue that he sucked late in his season, but from it forcing the starters into short rest which some can deal with and some CLEARLY cannot (javy and danks).

the gooch
09-28-2008, 04:56 PM
He was good, but I still think him getting All-star was a bit far fetched. As I've said before, it must have been a lifetime achievement award. With Scott Boras as Crede's agent, I think there was some significant campaigning within his other clients for a borderline guy who will be a free agent looking to score a big contract.
This would be the main reason I am against a player vote. Crede's silver slugger award is also suspect, but I don't know how that is decided.

End Hijack. Back to choke jobs and not blaming injuries.

guillensdisciple
09-28-2008, 05:22 PM
Without a doubt. Carlos was the fire of the line up and held it all together and Contreras was a good fifth to have regardless of his inconsistencies.

JB98
09-28-2008, 07:07 PM
As inconsistent as he was, Contreras was by far the biggest injury of the year. He usually showed up in big games, but if nothing else, he at least could eat some innings and help mask our pathetic bullpen. I think we've won 1 or maybe 2 starts in Contreras's spot since he went down. We also were forced to go to a 4 man rotation which has turned Vazquez and Danks to mush.

I agree 100 percent. We have not been able to fill the void that Jose left, and the trickle down has been having to start all these guys on three days rest. Thus far, Buehrle is the only Sox hurler to respond favorably on short rest. Just having Jose to give us six innings every fifth day, regardless of how many games he won or lost, would have made a difference in this pennant race.

As much as we miss TCQ, I believe the Contreras injury was the most damaging for the White Sox this season.