PDA

View Full Version : Why does Javy fall apart in the 5th or 6th inning?


Whitesoxfan23
09-28-2008, 04:03 AM
It's one of the strangest things that I've ever seen. The guy was ROLLING tonight. What in the blue hell happened? He retired the first batter and things went to hell. We've seen this happen alot. I would really like to know what is going on inside his head. Does anybody have a source or anything about information on what his deal is with the 5th and 6th inning? Thanks.

EuroSox35
09-28-2008, 04:29 AM
Short rest probably doesn't help

LITTLE NELL
09-28-2008, 05:59 AM
Short rest probably doesn't help
Did'nt he only pitch 4 innings Tuesday. Give me a break.

Whitesoxfan23
09-28-2008, 06:10 AM
Did'nt he only pitch 4 innings Tuesday. Give me a break.

You are right. I don't think this had much to do with three days rest. He does this quite a bit. The guy has a mental block for some strange unknown reason.

Juice16
09-28-2008, 07:26 AM
Remember in 2006, the stretch of games when Javie would roll and then like clockwork, implode in the 6th.

SoxandtheCityTee
09-28-2008, 07:48 AM
You are right. I don't think this had much to do with three days rest. He does this quite a bit. The guy has a mental block for some strange unknown reason.

Two recent snapshots of Vazquez stick in my mind.

1. Javy's recent comment that after he retires he will be with his family in PR, so why should he be upset, etc. Taken by many to mean he just doesn't care, lacks competitive fire.

2. AJ going out to the mound Saturday night during the meltdown to try to talk to Javy, who still looked angry. Miffed by a couple of questionable calls by the ump, and he lets it get into his head so badly that he costs his team the game? Seems like the opposite of not giving a damn; seems like the sort of person who cares a lot -- obsesses, in fact -- about something that is not what's important at the moment.

Neither Javy's record in tight situations, nor his overall won-loss record, seems to jibe with his stuff. It has to be in his head. He reminds me of other players who had this huge but touchy sense of ego, turned inward, not linked in any way to the success of the team. Let's just nurse our mental grievance on how the ump is getting it wrong, and meanwhile, five or six runs are in.

God bless AJ for trying, but you can't reason this type of person out of these mindsets. In Javy's head, the dream retirement in Puerto Rico, the house and the money, are all consolations for the wounds he's had to suffer from those who just did not appreciate his greatness. That his MLB career could have held so much more doesn't enter into it.

AngryCollins
09-28-2008, 08:00 AM
He gets tired.

He gets bored.

He gets angry.

Or he gets tired, bored and angry at the same time.

KyWhiSoxFan
09-28-2008, 09:16 AM
Maybe he just sucks. I can't wait for the off season and get rid of him. I just hope some team is foolish enough to take him.

WSox597
09-28-2008, 09:25 AM
He's under .500 for his career, with his mythical "stuff".

His best year was one of the White Sox' worst year, 2007. He was 15-8 when there was zero pennant race pressure.

For whatever reason, he's just not the answer. Over 200 strikeouts, and 12-16. Something's wrong with that picture.

TornLabrum
09-28-2008, 09:53 AM
Javier Vazquez is the poster child for the phrase, "Million dollar arm, ten-cent brain."

tick53
09-28-2008, 09:57 AM
He's a 500 pitcher. Nothing less, nothing more.

Jaffar
09-28-2008, 10:05 AM
Hopefully he'll be our 4th or 5th starter next season.

sachin
09-28-2008, 10:08 AM
Because he does not play very well overall. He sucks.

MeteorsSox4367
09-28-2008, 10:35 AM
It's a shame there isn't an expansion draft coming up anytime soon, because Javy would be the perfect No. 1 starter for a crappy expansion team.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-28-2008, 10:37 AM
Javier Vazquez is the poster child for the phrase, "Million dollar arm, ten-cent brain."


FORMER SOX ROCKHEAD----> :jon





CURRENT SOX ROCKHEAD---> :vazquez:

Craig Grebeck
09-28-2008, 10:38 AM
We'll keep him. No reason to trade him and create another hole.

BleacherBandit
09-28-2008, 10:41 AM
FORMER SOX ROCKHEAD----> :jon





CURRENT SOX ROCKHEAD---> :vazquez:0

I'd rather have Jon back regardless...

Craig Grebeck
09-28-2008, 10:44 AM
0

I'd rather have Jon back regardless...
Oh for the love of...

Have you seen how bad Jon is this year? He's been HORRIBLE.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-28-2008, 10:45 AM
Any lip readers out there? What exactly did Javy bark at A.J. behind the mound during his meltdown last night?

Anything other than, "A.J., I'm a gutless ****ing idiot for letting an umpire beat me! Please tell the team I'm sorry." won't be good enough in my book.

:mad:

BleacherBandit
09-28-2008, 10:52 AM
Oh for the love of...

Have you seen how bad Jon is this year? He's been HORRIBLE.

Yeah, he has an ERA over 4 just like Javy does. He has a 14-8 record though, and although it probably has something to do with the Angels's offense, I think he would stand a better chance in these crucial games instead of Javy ****s-His-Pants...

Craig Grebeck
09-28-2008, 10:58 AM
Yeah, he has an ERA over 4 just like Javy does. He has a 14-8 record though, and although it probably has something to do with the Angels's offense, I think he would stand a better chance in these crucial games instead of Javy ****s-His-Pants...
ERA over 4 is an understatement. Try 4.90. Try 4.12 K/9 IP. K/BB ratio of 1.53. Opposing batters are hitting him at a line of .303/.355/.464! That'd be a fantastic leadoff man for us.

MeteorsSox4367
09-28-2008, 11:02 AM
[quote=PaleHoseGeorge;2061247]Any lip readers out there? What exactly did Javy bark at A.J. behind the mound during his meltdown last night?

George: It looked like Javy said one of the magic words that would get him banned from WSI. Something in a "F...you" to A.J.

Nice to see that kind of stuff in a game of that magnitude.

Patrick134
09-28-2008, 11:04 AM
It's a lack of stones, plain and simple.

alohafri
09-28-2008, 11:09 AM
Any lip readers out there? What exactly did Javy bark at A.J. behind the mound during his meltdown last night?

Anything other than, "A.J., I'm a gutless ****ing idiot for letting an umpire beat me! Please tell the team I'm sorry." won't be good enough in my book.

:mad:

Someone who was in our group was in line at the concession stand when it happened. She swore that Javy said, "Get the **** away from me. I don't want to ****ing talk to you."

alohafri
09-28-2008, 11:10 AM
Hopefully he'll be our 4th or 5th starter next season.

With the bull**** attitude he has shown over the past couple of weeks, I hope he is the 4th or 5th starter for someone else.

Rockabilly
09-28-2008, 11:13 AM
I hope this Javy last season with the Sox.

WHILEPITCH
09-28-2008, 11:16 AM
He's someone who consistently attacks the plate , but yet shouldnt. Not with the way his stuff is by 5th inning.

I dont know if it's pressure that gets to him. He pitched well in some important games this year. Aug 12 to Sep 14: he was very solid and those were very important games.

This is the kind of guy who will go a whole career and we'll never know if he was built more for relief pitching.

mccoydp
09-28-2008, 11:18 AM
Javy Vazquez: Mental midget, plain and simple.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-28-2008, 11:18 AM
Someone who was in our group was in line at the concession stand when it happened. She swore that Javy said, "Get the **** away from me. I don't want to ****ing talk to you."

It's my impression that A.J. Pierzynski might be the smartest ballplayer on the Sox roster.

It's also my impression Javier Vazquez might be one of the dumbest.

hi im skot
09-28-2008, 11:18 AM
Headcase.

SoxandtheCityTee
09-28-2008, 11:48 AM
He pitched well in some important games this year. Aug 12 to Sep 14: he was very solid and those were very important games.

This is the kind of guy who will go a whole career and we'll never know if he was built more for relief pitching.

True, he was good. I was thinking that's the Javy we'd get now, but no.

You make a good point about relieving. " 'Member when Javy struck out the first two batters of the game on six pitches? That was awesome."

MarkPloch
09-28-2008, 12:53 PM
Javy is a great pitcher when it doesn't matter. Danks is young, I'll give him a pass. Dump Javy, McDougle, Logan

gobears1987
09-28-2008, 12:55 PM
I said it before and I'll say it again. I hope Javy goes to his beach next month and never returns to pitch for the White Sox. I'd love for that headcase to pitch for Cleveland, Minnesota, or Detroit at some point in the future.

As for Danks, he's 23 years old. I'm not going to judge him yet as this is only his second full season in the big leagues. He will be something great if he continues to progress as he has. He has definitely improved this year over last, and I expect him to continue to improve.

Lip Man 1
09-28-2008, 12:57 PM
Hal:

Said it best with his comment.

Like I said once, you look at his career and it's odd that his best seasons seem to come when he plays for bad teams, out of the race early.

Lip

Craig Grebeck
09-28-2008, 01:13 PM
We are going to miss him. Trade him at his lowest possible value, receive a marginal prospect, and then pick up who exactly?

spongyfungy
09-28-2008, 01:25 PM
Anyone listen to Hawk on ESPN this morning? He basically said all the great pitchers have a plan B when for instance the breaking ball isn't working for you. He gave Greg Maddux for example. Hawk asked him if he has a plan B. Maddux responded he's got an A, B and C. If it's not working for him on the mound, he'll change it up, by pitching even slower.

Maddux will probably make an excellent pitching coach if he wants to be one. I know teams will probably pursue him and one team will pay him big bucks

Paulwny
09-28-2008, 01:28 PM
Anyone listen to Hawk on ESPN this morning? He basically said all the great pitchers have a plan B when for instance the breaking ball isn't working for you. He gave Greg Maddux for example. Hawk asked him if he has a plan B. Maddux responded he's got an A, B and C. If it's not working for him on the mound, he'll change it up, by pitching even slower.

Maddux will probably make an excellent pitching coach if he wants to be one. I know teams will probably pursue him and one team will pay him big bucks

One flaw, Hawk thinks Javy is a great pitcher, he isn't.

LITTLE NELL
09-28-2008, 05:19 PM
Anyone think Javy could make a good setup man or closer. He's usually good for 4 innings and then all hell breaks loose.

DSpivack
09-28-2008, 05:22 PM
Anyone think Javy could make a good setup man or closer. He's usually good for 4 innings and then all hell breaks loose.

Good god no. He's proven time and again that he wilts under pressure.

LITTLE NELL
09-28-2008, 05:24 PM
Good god no. He's proven time and again that he wilts under pressure.
How about mop up man?

DSpivack
09-28-2008, 05:25 PM
How about mop up man?

How about bullpen catcher?

WSox597
09-28-2008, 08:31 PM
Here's a nightmare thought, the Sox make the playoffs, and guess who starts Game 3?

Cue funeral music.

sox1970
09-28-2008, 08:33 PM
Here's a nightmare thought, the Sox make the playoffs, and guess who starts Game 3?

Cue funeral music.

Probably Floyd.

I'm sure you're thinking Vazquez, but he'll probably start Game 1. If they get there, I think they'll go:

Oct 2- Vazquez
Oct 3- Buehrle
Oct 5- Floyd
Oct 6- Danks
Oct 8- Buehrle

TornLabrum
09-28-2008, 09:45 PM
Probably Floyd.

I'm sure you're thinking Vazquez, but he'll probably start Game 1. If they get there, I think they'll go:

Oct 2- Vazquez
Oct 3- Buehrle
Oct 5- Floyd
Oct 6- Danks
Oct 8- Buehrle

So what you're saying is that we'll start the ALDS at 0-1....

Daver
09-28-2008, 10:13 PM
Why does Javy fall apart in the 5th or 6th inning?

Because he pitches with his back and shoulders instead of his legs.

Javier Vazquez is the poster child for the phrase, "Million dollar arm, ten-cent brain."

He knows when he has nothing left, I have to wonder why he doesn't let the rest of the team know before he goes back out to the mound.

One flaw, Hawk thinks Javy is a great pitcher, he isn't.

Ken Harrelson's opinion and a dime won't even get you a phone call.

SpartanSoxFan
09-28-2008, 10:17 PM
We'll keep him. No reason to trade him and create another hole.

I say Kenny should pursue something among the lines of a McCarthy/Danks trade. If nothing is available, stick with the mental-midget for now.

PaleHoser
09-28-2008, 11:20 PM
Great stuff, no guts and no clue on how to pitch. I think the most telling stat I've read recently is that Vazquez has beaten a team with a winning record only three times all season.

I think we can find someone, anyone in the farm system and they can lose 16 games next season. We can also take $12M off the payroll for next season.

Craig Grebeck
09-28-2008, 11:27 PM
Great stuff, no guts and no clue on how to pitch. I think the most telling stat I've read recently is that Vazquez has beaten a team with a winning record only three times all season.

I think we can find someone, anyone in the farm system and they can lose 16 games next season. We can also take $12M off the payroll for next season.
There's probably no one in the system that can put up his numbers for 200+ innings.

Thome_Fan
09-28-2008, 11:33 PM
He's a 500 pitcher. Nothing less, nothing more.

Nope. Less.

jenn2080
09-28-2008, 11:35 PM
I didn't like him before and I certainly don't like him anymore now. He is a piece O ****.

forrestg
09-29-2008, 12:25 AM
He has a whole plate why does he just use the outside edge.

guillensdisciple
09-29-2008, 01:17 AM
Javy is mentally weak and it is so obvious. Pitchers like him are reliable only as fourth starters. He should be in the bullpen if the sox make the playoffs.

oeo
09-29-2008, 01:28 AM
We are going to miss him. Trade him at his lowest possible value, receive a marginal prospect, and then pick up who exactly?

Yeah, we're already down one starter, no need to make that two.

Hopefully we can pick up another vet, and move Javy to #5 just to eat up innings, a la Jon Garland.

Raiders16
09-29-2008, 12:40 PM
The only way he is going to worth keeping is if we pick up another starter in the offseason & move him down to the 5th starter. Then being a little under .500 is more acceptable. Just not for the money he's getting. People are kidding themselves if you don't think he's tradable for something decent in return. There is always a possibility of trading him as long as we eat some of his contract. Not to mention that every pitching coach in baseball thinks that a change of scenery & his coaching can turn any pitcher around. Ecspecially with somebody that looks like they have good stuff if they ever can put it together like Javy does.

chisoxfanatic
09-29-2008, 01:03 PM
Javy is mentally weak and it is so obvious. Pitchers like him are reliable only as fourth starters. He should be in the bullpen if the sox make the playoffs.
You can get away with a 3-man rotation in the ALDS; but, would you really want to do that if we're in the ALCS?

EndemicSox
09-29-2008, 01:46 PM
With the bull**** attitude he has shown over the past couple of weeks, I hope he is the 4th or 5th starter for someone else.

Agreed...the guy doesn't handle stress at all. Quite simply, I'll be pissed if he is on the team next year because playoff teams don't ride with pitchers who can't handle the stress that comes with big games. Deal him to the Mariners/Nationals, and be done with him. On the other hand, I wont be shocked if Kenny isn't able to sell the guy for ten-cents on the dollar, as I don't think any GM worth his or her salt wants a choke-artist like Javy on his/her team.

As for pitching him in the playoffs, I'll be livid, he'll get rocked, and I'm so sure of it I'd bet my house and not worry one bit. Long-relief/mop-up is the only role Javy should have for a playoff team. Don't be a moron Ozzie...I'm begging you!

soxinem1
09-29-2008, 01:51 PM
Javier Vazquez is the poster child for the phrase, "Million dollar arm, ten-cent brain."

With the economic problems facing the brain markets and futures, I think the value of this particular brain stock fell 50% in the past week alone, thus the closing price on Vazquez' brain is at five-cents!:smile:

RCWHITESOX
09-29-2008, 02:34 PM
He's under .500 for his career, with his mythical "stuff".

His best year was one of the White Sox' worst year, 2007. He was 15-8 when there was zero pennant race pressure.

For whatever reason, he's just not the answer. Over 200 strikeouts, and 12-16. Something's wrong with that picture.

You picked the right curtain. This guy is the direct opposite of a clutch performer. Send him to Kansas City where he will thrive. Don't let the door hit you in the but on the way out!

palehozenychicty
09-29-2008, 02:52 PM
I knew that he'd suck when they needed him the most. He falls apart because he doesn't love the game. He doesn't play to win titles or make his mark in its history. He loves what the game does for him. It's the only way that you can explain guys like him that never reach their potential. I can understand if he was constantly injured, but he's very very durable, which may be his only asset nowadays.

JayBeast
09-29-2008, 02:58 PM
I noticed last year, it seemed that Javy will get the calls early, but later in the game the umpire's zone shrinks on him... I think it shrinks because of all the barking from the batters... after 3 times through the line-up, the umpire has had enough & gives into the batters.
I think it is his style that lends his pitches to more subjectivity.
Javy is a stike out pitcher, this style is better suited for a reliever in short doses...
I think they should work with him on changing his style after the 4th inning to attack the lower part of the strike zone, rather than trying to strike out batters and ending up behind in the count consistantly.