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Fenway
09-26-2008, 12:27 AM
I watched the end of the White Sox game with some members of the Tribe media in Boston. The Akron writer was quick to point out that if Chicago wins out they still win the division.

He said the Indians are playing to finish at .500 or better and they need at least one in Chicago. However they have looked awful the last r nights in Boston. Lee 2 nights ago was about 5 MPH lower than he has been all year and he may get shut down.

Go Sox....Go Royals

I think you will have a 1/2 game lead when Sunday ends and a win over the Tigers seals the deal.

hi im skot
09-26-2008, 12:28 AM
I'll buy you a pint next time you're in town if the White Sox make the playoffs in 2008.

Hell, make it three.

SouthSoxFan
09-26-2008, 12:37 AM
The Akron writer was quick to point out that if Chicago wins out they still win the division.

Well, he was wrong. If the Twins sweep KC, they guarantee themselves no worse than a tie for the division title, and a one game playoff.

cards press box
09-26-2008, 12:39 AM
I watched the end of the White Sox game with some members of the Tribe media in Boston. The Akron writer was quick to point out that if Chicago wins out they still win the division.

He said the Indians are playing to finish at .500 or better and they need at least one in Chicago. However they have looked awful the last r nights in Boston. Lee 2 nights ago was about 5 MPH lower than he has been all year and he may get shut down.

Go Sox....Go Royals

I think you will have a 1/2 game lead when Sunday ends and a win over the Tigers seals the deal.

Yeah, I suppose you are right. The Sox have up to 5 regular season games left (and, yes, Game 163 would be a regular season game) and if they win them all, they go to the playoffs. That does sound like a tall order, though. I hate to say it but we will likely need help from KC.

Maybe the Twins will have a letdown after this series and lose a game or two the Royals. On the bright side, KC has won 8 of 10, with those two losses coming to the Sox.

cards press box
09-26-2008, 12:42 AM
Well, he was wrong. If the Twins sweep KC, they guarantee themselves no worse than a tie for the division title, and a one game playoff.

No, he's right. If the Sox sweep the Cleveland series and win Game #162 against Detroit, then the best the Twins can do is sweep KC and tie the Sox with 90-72 records after 162 games. If the Sox then win Game #163, they would finish with a 91-72 record. Thus, the Sox still do control their own fate. Fenway is right.

The Twins' magic # is 4. Ours is 5.

DaveFeelsRight
09-26-2008, 12:48 AM
call me a fool, but i still have hope

manders_01
09-26-2008, 12:52 AM
call me a fool, but i still have hope

Then myself and plenty of others on here are fools as well. :smile:

EuroSox35
09-26-2008, 12:58 AM
No, he's right. If the Sox sweep the Cleveland series and win Game #162 against Detroit, then the best the Twins can do is sweep KC and tie the Sox with 90-72 records after 162 games. If the Sox then win Game #163, they would finish with a 91-72 record. Thus, the Sox still do control their own fate. Fenway is right.



Tes, but if you count game 163, then the Twins can say the same exact thing, which means they control their own fate. That kind deflates any enthusiasm I'd have about us "controlling our own fate"

Oh, I definitely have hope, but that doesn't mean I can't be extremely pissed about what just happened, it seems like people are only allowed to be extremes on this board, the two aren't mutually exclusive...

doublem23
09-26-2008, 01:03 AM
call me a fool, but i still have hope

Me, too. What is there to lose? No way I can be more let down than tonight.

SouthSoxFan
09-26-2008, 01:05 AM
Thus, the Sox still do control their own fate. Fenway is right.

Yep, my bad. I was caught up in the fact that we essentially blew our chance to wrap up the division this weekend.

bluestar
09-26-2008, 01:22 AM
Me, too. What is there to lose? No way I can be more let down than tonight.

At this point, I would kind of relish the opportunity to see the Sox face the Twins in the tiebreaker game (whatever it is called). Of course, I will be happy if the Sox win the division before that game is necessary, but it would be nice to face them for the division title where they don't have the psychological and physical advantages that dome gives them over the Sox.

DaveFeelsRight
09-26-2008, 01:40 AM
At this point, I would kind of relish the opportunity to see the Sox face the Twins in the tiebreaker game (whatever it is called). Of course, I will be happy if the Sox win the division before that game is necessary, but it would be nice to face them for the division title where they don't have the psychological and physical advantages that dome gives them over the Sox.sox play the tiebreaker at home

EDIT: never mind, i misread that

Fenway
09-26-2008, 08:32 AM
No, he's right. If the Sox sweep the Cleveland series and win Game #162 against Detroit, then the best the Twins can do is sweep KC and tie the Sox with 90-72 records after 162 games. If the Sox then win Game #163, they would finish with a 91-72 record. Thus, the Sox still do control their own fate. Fenway is right.

The Twins' magic # is 4. Ours is 5.

I think the important thing is the 1/2 game means nothing at this point the Twins and White Sox are actually tied.

Cleveland still has a chance to finish at or above .500 so they won't be mailing it in but they also didn't look good at Fenway the past 4 games.

Kansas City hopefully is not planning on tee times for Monday. I do think they will win at least one in the Pimple on the Prairie.

The big trap is the makeup game with Detroit. Hopefully the White Sox have a 1/2 game lead if they do play that game on Monday and can close the deal. I can't recall a makeup game ever coming into play like this.

The White Sox didn't roll over in Minneapolis the last 2 games they were simply beaten by a team that plays well at home. That said now Chicago goes home and my gut feeling is there will be a game on Monday against Detroit and if the Sox win that they will will wind up playing Tampa because they will beat the Twins on Tuesday.

Oblong
09-26-2008, 08:40 AM
Freddy Garcia would pitch the make up game for Detroit if it's needed. That's good news for the Sox. Not because of Freddy though. He still can't go deep into games so at most he'll go 5 innings. The you get the Tiger bullpen and it's batting practice time.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-26-2008, 09:11 AM
Well, he was wrong. If the Twins sweep KC, they guarantee themselves no worse than a tie for the division title, and a one game playoff.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
100 PERCENT WRONG!!!

As of this morning, the White Sox and Twins are TIED in the only column that counts: the LOSS column. Each has lost 72 games. The difference is the Sox have one extra game left to play (4) than the Twins (3).

Each team will play 162 games IF NECESSARY. Nobody is awarded the division crown with a "1/2 game lead" which is why the Sox will play all 162 games IF NECESSARY.

The Twins can win all 3 of their remaining games and STILL LOSE the division. The Sox can still win the division simply by winning their 4 remaining games... the IF NECESSARY GAME is our tiebreaker, not the Twins!

Only if the Sox and Twins finish with identical records after 162 games will a playoff be necessary. You think you got it now?

MY SIMPLE ADVICE TO YOU: stop looking at the games-back column because it's basically meaningless in September. WATCH THE LOSS COLUMN. It's the only one that matters now.

doublem23
09-26-2008, 09:27 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
100 PERCENT WRONG!!!

As of this morning, the White Sox and Twins are TIED in the only column that counts: the LOSS column. Each has lost 72 games. The difference is the Sox have one extra game left to play (4) than the Twins (3).

Each team will play 162 games IF NECESSARY. Nobody is awarded the division crown with a "1/2 game lead" which is why the Sox will play all 162 games IF NECESSARY.

The Twins can win all 3 of their remaining games and STILL LOSE the division. The Sox can still win the division simply by winning their 4 remaining games... the IF NECESSARY GAME is our tiebreaker, not the Twins!

Only if the Sox and Twins finish with identical records after 162 games will a playoff be necessary. You think you got it now?

MY SIMPLE ADVICE TO YOU: stop looking at the games-back column because it's basically meaningless in September. WATCH THE LOSS COLUMN. It's the only one that matters now.

No, George. The Twins are 87-72, if they sweep KC they finish 90-72, guaranteeing at least a tie for the division. The Sox are 86-72 right now, if they sweep Cleveland and beat Detroit in the make-up, they would still need to beat Minny, if Minny sweeps the Royals.

Minnesota controls its own fate now, too.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-26-2008, 09:30 AM
No, George. The Twins are 87-72, if they sweep KC they finish 90-72, guaranteeing at least a tie for the division. The Sox are 86-72 right now, if they sweep Cleveland and beat Detroit in the make-up, they would still need to beat Minny, if Minny sweeps the Royals.

Minnesota controls its own fate now, too.

Ugh... never mind.

:redface:

If I'm the Twins I'm already packing my bags to visit the Cell if I have any plans of reaching the post-season.

doublem23
09-26-2008, 09:34 AM
Ugh... never mind.

:redface:

If I'm the Twins I'm already packing my bags to visit the Cell if I have any plans of reaching the post-season.

It's OK, but your point still stands that the Sox can still do this thing without help from anyone else. They can still win the Central all on their own, they just need to win, and considering the way the last 3 days played out, that's not the worst thing in the world.

chaerulez
09-26-2008, 09:52 AM
Lets not sell the Royals short either, thinking they will get swept as well. Not to mention it's not common for a team to win six straight. So we can perhaps hope the Twins are due for a loss.

I'd like to be 0.5 games up if we play game 162 and make that the division clincher game.

ChiSoxFan81
09-26-2008, 09:52 AM
Cliff Lee has a stiff neck and may not make his start Sunday. Why the hell can't we sweep? We've been solid at home all year. It's not just the Twins who can win on home turf.

WhiffleBall
09-26-2008, 10:02 AM
Is it too late to bring in the hypnotist?

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/9/96/The_Hypnotist2.jpg

esbrechtel
09-26-2008, 10:02 AM
The magic number is still 5 is it not? So if we sweep that makes it 2 with one game left against the Tigers. If we win that game it makes it 1. Don't we still NEED a loss from the Twins to even have a chance? I think we need to win out and the Twins have to lose at least 1...

esbrechtel
09-26-2008, 10:03 AM
is it too late to bring in the hypnotist?

my eyes!!!

ChiSoxFan81
09-26-2008, 10:07 AM
The magic number is still 5 is it not? So if we sweep that makes it 2 with one game left against the Tigers. If we win that game it makes it 1. Don't we still NEED a loss from the Twins to even have a chance? I think we need to win out and the Twins have to lose at least 1...

Yes, and that loss for the Twins would have to come in the TIEBREAKER game on Tuesday. Yeesh.

Law11
09-26-2008, 10:10 AM
call me a fool, but i still have hope

Thats not what you posted last night after the game. You were just a bit ticked at you own sig.. :D:

KingXerxes
09-26-2008, 10:10 AM
The magic number is still 5 is it not? So if we sweep that makes it 2 with one game left against the Tigers. If we win that game it makes it 1. Don't we still NEED a loss from the Twins to even have a chance? I think we need to win out and the Twins have to lose at least 1...

You are correct in stating that the magic number for the White Sox is five.
The magic number for the Twins is four.

The White Sox have four games left (including Detroit) - if they win all four, their magic number drops to one. When your magic number is one, you can do no worse than to tie for the division. A magic number of zero means you have won the division.

The Twins have a magic number of four. If they win all three against Kansas City, then their magic number will be one also.

Therefore, if both the White Sox win out (they will) and Minnesota wins out (they won't) - there will be a playoff game between the White Sox and Twins - both of whom will have a magic number of one before the start of the playoff game.

sox1970
09-26-2008, 10:12 AM
The Sox are 26-6 at home against AL Central opponents. This is the only thing that gives me hope for the Sox.

ChiSoxFan81
09-26-2008, 10:15 AM
The Sox are 26-6 at home against AL Central opponents. This is the only thing that gives me hope for the Sox.

And the fact that none of those 6 losses have come to the Toons.

KingXerxes
09-26-2008, 10:20 AM
The Sox are 26-6 at home against AL Central opponents. This is the only thing that gives me hope for the Sox.

I've got to believe that Minnesota will have a mental letdown against Kansas City and lose at least one of those games. If Minnesota loses game one tonight - and the White Sox win, it should provide a feeling of "second life" to the entirety of the White Sox roster. A feeling that I truly suspect will jump start them to the division.

In my mind, this is not too unlike 2005. If you'll recall in September, the White Sox almost frittered away the division lead to Cleveland. They walked up to the edge of that abyss, looked down it, and then backed away. It might have been the best thing for them when the playoffs approached, because it took away the feeling of invincibility or overconfidence that can have you tied in knots when things don't break your way during the playoffs.

If they get in - and I'm still confident that they will - they could be very tough because they'll be playing very loose.

Bruizer
09-26-2008, 12:50 PM
I'm just glad the Sox can still control their own fate. But that will end if the Sox lose and the Twins win tonight. I'll take it one game at a time, starting tonight! Go Sox!!

esbrechtel
09-26-2008, 01:12 PM
You are correct in stating that the magic number for the White Sox is five.
The magic number for the Twins is four.

The White Sox have four games left (including Detroit) - if they win all four, their magic number drops to one. When your magic number is one, you can do no worse than to tie for the division. A magic number of zero means you have won the division.

The Twins have a magic number of four. If they win all three against Kansas City, then their magic number will be one also.

Therefore, if both the White Sox win out (they will) and Minnesota wins out (they won't) - there will be a playoff game between the White Sox and Twins - both of whom will have a magic number of one before the start of the playoff game.

Very good explanation....I was pretty confused before thanks!

KingXerxes
09-26-2008, 01:45 PM
Very good explanation....I was pretty confused before thanks!

No problem.

slavko
09-26-2008, 01:46 PM
I'm just glad the Sox can still control their own fate. But that will end if the Sox lose and the Twins win tonight. I'll take it one game at a time, starting tonight! Go Sox!!

If the Sox are good enough to deserve playoffs, then they are good enough to win four games at home against teams worse than they are. Maybe even five. If they are not good enough, they they will make tee times for Tuesday as they deserve. That's simple enough.

DannyCaterFan
09-26-2008, 02:24 PM
The only problem I have with all this is, when was the last time the Sox won 4 or 5 in a row?

ChiSoxFan81
09-26-2008, 02:26 PM
The only problem I have with all this is, when was the last time the Sox won 4 or 5 in a row?

Probably the last time they played the Toons at home. They've played alot of tough teams lately. Cut them a break. They can do it.

Mohoney
09-26-2008, 02:30 PM
The magic number is still 5 is it not? So if we sweep that makes it 2 with one game left against the Tigers. If we win that game it makes it 1. Don't we still NEED a loss from the Twins to even have a chance? I think we need to win out and the Twins have to lose at least 1...

No. A Twins loss, coupled with 4 in a row would add up to 5 and clinch BEFORE the one game playoff.

It's real simple. If one of the teams loses one more game than the other between now and Tuesday, that team wins the division outright. If they both lose the same number of games, they play Tuesday.

Law11
09-26-2008, 02:32 PM
The only problem I have with all this is, when was the last time the Sox won 4 or 5 in a row?

Thank You....

whitesox901
09-26-2008, 02:42 PM
Then myself and plenty of others on here are fools as well. :smile:

Im one of those fools! :cool:

downstairs
09-26-2008, 02:52 PM
Minnesota is going to win at least one game against KC. Lets hope for the best: Minnesota wins only one and loses two.

Realisitcally it is a tall order to expect a sweep, so lets assume the Sox win 2.

That puts us 1/2 game ahead, and the DET game becomes a complete gift to us: win and we're in the playoffs, lose and we STILL have another game to get into the playoffs. Basically: "can you win one out of two games at home, Sox?"

I'm not pinning my hopes on any sweeps this weekend.

downstairs
09-26-2008, 02:55 PM
The only problem I have with all this is, when was the last time the Sox won 4 or 5 in a row?

Who cares. They don't need to. They just need to play solid ball (your typical "win 2 outta 3" and hope MIN doesn't play lights-out sweep ball (and face it: they're not that good.)

kjhanson
09-26-2008, 03:00 PM
The only problem I have with all this is, when was the last time the Sox won 4 or 5 in a row?

Middle of August. Two against the A's and Seattle at home for three. We are 6-0 against Cleveland at home this year. The Twins, meanwhile, are 4-2 against the Royals at home this year. Before their sweep of the White Sox, they (Twins) had not even won three in a row since, well, you guessed it, the middle of August.

SOXBOY
09-26-2008, 03:14 PM
Who cares the last time the Sox won 4-5 in a row. They have to now and that's what matters. If the team can't get up for this final run at "Home" then they don't belong in the playoffs.

sunofgold
09-27-2008, 12:56 AM
Both WHITE SOX and Twins lost. Same result as is both teams won (tied in loss column). WHITE SOX still control their own destiny.

Of course, it would have been great to win today, but same position for the WHITE SOX. Just win every game. GO WHITE SOX!

Fenway
09-27-2008, 01:00 AM
The good news is nothing has changed thanks to the Royals thrashing the Twins. Kansas City is also playing their best ball of the seeason winning 12 of last 16.

The bad news is the Indians want to finish at or above .500 which is an important benchmark for a team.

For better or for worse the White Sox will most likely know the final score of the Twins game when they take the field Saturday.

Obviously the goal is to win the next 2 games and the Royals also win 2 but that is asking too much. More realistic is Chicago winning 2 and the Twins winning 1. If that happens then the Pale Hose have 2 chances at home to win it as losing to Detroit would not be fatal.

Even a split the next 2 games might be enough as I really think KC will win one more but then the Tigers game is a must win.

Don't Stop Believing

LoveYourSuit
09-27-2008, 01:08 AM
I love this thread.

It feels like the Des Plaines folks sandbagging as the river is rushing in.

Or watching the musicians on the Titanic continue playing as the ship is tilting.

But it's not over unti it's over.

Let's get it done.

ode to veeck
09-27-2008, 10:22 AM
Ode's prediction: Twinks split remaining games and Sox win 2 and get Monday and Tuesday off to prepare for ALDS against the smoking Rays

CHISOXFAN13
09-27-2008, 10:23 AM
Ode's prediction: Twinks split remaining games and Sox win 2 and get Monday and Tuesday off to prepare for ALDS against the smoking Rays

The Monday game would be needed in that scenario.

Frankfan4life
09-27-2008, 10:39 AM
Wow!!! What an emotional pummeling Sox fans are going to take in the next few days. This is going to be the wildest ride we've been on in quite a while.

sunofgold
09-27-2008, 12:24 PM
Thankful that the Royals are playing hard. The TWINS did expend a lot of energy in their three games with us. Hopefully, they are exhausted like a basketball team that makes up a 20 pt deficit in the second half. They have been using their BULLPEN A LOT.

It has been a rough 4 days, but we are still in this. Lee is probably not pitching tomorrow which is great break for us.

GO ROYALS! GO WHITE SOX!

TDog
09-27-2008, 01:23 PM
It is discouraging that the White Sox have now lost four straight and have two games going with pitchers on short rest. The Sox so needed that win Friday night.

I still believe in the Sox and that they are capable of putting something together, but after each loss the Sox face another most important game of the season. My hope is that with practice they will start getting it right and ride that into the postseason.

What I anticipate rationally or by applying my experiences with this team to the future is immaterial to my enthusiasm in cheering on the White Sox. Baseball is a human game, and humans aren't perfect. This is my team. They have a chance to go farther than the 1983 team did, and that team won its division by 20 games and seemingly never lost in September. Until the season is over, be the end sparked by a drive by Tito Landrum or a squeeze squeeze bunt in Seattle to end seasons when no American League team won more regular season games or something far less sudden, I'm there for the Sox. There's no place else to go sportswise. There are only two seasons for me: White Sox baseball season and the offseason. The rest of American spectator sport is just tedious.

Fenway
09-27-2008, 07:37 PM
OK you can't ask anymore of the Royals. Win this game tonight and you have at worse a game Monday with Detroit.

Win both games against Clevelend and the Tigers game and the Twins are dead.

HawkDJ
09-27-2008, 08:17 PM
You know, I'm honestly starting to hope we don't make the playoffs. What a complete and utter embarrassment this team is. If we make the playoffs, it will make a mockery of Major League Baseball.

scarsofthumper
09-27-2008, 08:21 PM
Utter and complete failure.

Congratulations Sox, you have become the 2007 Mets.

Brian26
09-27-2008, 08:21 PM
If we make the playoffs, it will make a mockery of Major League Baseball.

Wouldn't be the first time. That feat was most recently accomplished by the 83-win St. Louis Cardinals, your 2006 World Series Champions.

Jurr
09-27-2008, 08:28 PM
Wouldn't be the first time. That feat was most recently accomplished by the 83-win St. Louis Cardinals, your 2006 World Series Champions.
Nope. Not happening. This team sucks. Quit bringing up the Cardinals.

CHISOXFAN13
09-27-2008, 08:29 PM
I'm getting sick and ****ing tired of the "I don't want the Sox in the playoffs" bull**** on here.

Go find something else to do then.

HawkDJ
09-27-2008, 08:32 PM
I'm getting sick and ****ing tired of the "I don't want the Sox in the playoffs" bull**** on here.

Go find something else to do then.


Do you think we have earned a shot at the World Series?

kevingrt
09-27-2008, 08:34 PM
Do you think we have earned a shot at the World Series?

No but you still don't root against your teaming making the playoffs. What's the worst thing that can happen if your team makes the playoffs? You get swept?

Rooting against your team making the playoffs is weak. Now if you think they will do nothing if they make the playoffs that is different.

kevingrt
09-27-2008, 08:35 PM
Utter and complete failure.

Congratulations Sox, you have become the 2007 Mets.

Big difference between what a six game lead with two weeks left and a 2.5 game lead with two weeks left?

If my math is correct that is 3.5 games. And that would thus mean the Mets collapses more then us if that is possible. Like a 7 foot giant collapsing and a 4 foot midget collapsing.

Jurr
09-27-2008, 08:36 PM
No but you still don't root against your teaming making the playoffs. What's the worst thing that can happen if your team makes the playoffs? You get swept?

Rooting against your team making the playoffs is weak. Now if you think they will do nothing if they make the playoffs that is different.
This team would do nothing in the playoffs. If you're a Dolphins or Lions fan, you know your team sucks. You know that your team is incapable of beating the best teams out there.

That's where the Sox are. Hopeless.

CHISOXFAN13
09-27-2008, 08:37 PM
This team would do nothing in the playoffs. If you're a Dolphins or Lions fan, you know your team sucks. You know that your team is incapable of beating the best teams out there.

That's where the Sox are. Hopeless.

Spoken like someone who's probably never competed for jack **** in his entire life. You have a loser's mentality.

Jurr
09-27-2008, 08:39 PM
I'm getting sick and ****ing tired of the "I don't want the Sox in the playoffs" bull**** on here.

Go find something else to do then.
You know that nobody means that, even if they say it. If the Sox came back and put 10 runs up this next inning, everybody would be in the same boat, salivating and saying that this moment is the moment it all turns around.

I'd love to see the Sox do such things. This is a tired ballclub. The sparkplugs have been pulled from the engine due to injury, and now it's been reduced to a bunch of overpaid OLD veterans looking at each other, wondering who is going to hit the 9 run homer. It's not happening.

kevingrt
09-27-2008, 08:41 PM
This team would do nothing in the playoffs. If you're a Dolphins or Lions fan, you know your team sucks. You know that your team is incapable of beating the best teams out there.

That's where the Sox are. Hopeless.

That's different then not wanting your team to make the playoffs.

HawkDJ
09-27-2008, 08:42 PM
No but you still don't root against your teaming making the playoffs. What's the worst thing that can happen if your team makes the playoffs? You get swept?

Rooting against your team making the playoffs is weak. Now if you think they will do nothing if they make the playoffs that is different.

Sorry, I hold my team to slightly higher standards. When you lose 6 straight to end a season, when you only have to win essentially 1 of these games to clinch, that's beyond embarrassing. I don't want these guys to be rewarded for one of the most horrid baseball performances I've ever seen. I'm not rooting against them, but I will say it would be most pleasing to the balance of the universe if we don't make it.

Jurr
09-27-2008, 08:44 PM
Spoken like someone who's probably never competed for jack **** in his entire life. You have a loser's mentality.
Yikes.....are you serious?
All region in football high school '97 (West TN) while carrying a 4.0. Full scholarship for college.
Now I own my own dental practice at 29. Yup. Loser's mentality, coach. That's it. Pfft.

Loser's mentality? No. This team sucks. While I've been losing at life, I have watched a ton of White Sox baseball, and I've never seen a team as flat and terrible as the crap I've seen all month. Period.

Malgar 12
09-27-2008, 08:45 PM
Sorry, I hold my team to slightly higher standards. When you lose 6 straight to end a season, when you only have to win essentially 1 of these games to clinch, that's beyond embarrassing. I don't want these guys to be rewarded for one of the most horrid baseball performances I've ever seen. I'm not rooting against them, but I will say it would be most pleasing to the balance of the universe if we don't make it.

Here's a pseudo-metaphysical question for you. "If the universe is composed of everything...how can it be imbalanced?"

Jurr
09-27-2008, 08:45 PM
That's different then not wanting your team to make the playoffs.
I don't think there are Sox fans that are REALLY saying they want them not to make it, are there? That's awful. Probably just so frustrated that they want their anguish to stop.

kevingrt
09-27-2008, 08:56 PM
I don't think there are Sox fans that are REALLY saying they want them not to make it, are there? That's awful. Probably just so frustrated that they want their anguish to stop.

Yeah, I kinda understand but don't type you don't want to see the team make the playoffs then.

BTW- your prior post completely reminds me when Hub Arkush and Dick Jauron went off on a caller on the Bear's Monday Show about his credentials as a caller.

Simply awesome.

And if you were all region as a kicker/punter that doesn't really count. :D:

Jurr
09-27-2008, 09:02 PM
Yeah, I kinda understand but don't type you don't want to see the team make the playoffs then.

BTW- your prior post completely reminds me when Hub Arkush and Dick Jauron went off on a caller on the Bear's Monday Show about his credentials as a caller.

Simply awesome.

And if you were all region as a kicker/punter that doesn't really count. :D:
safety. Nice try, buddy!:redneck

anewman35
09-27-2008, 09:07 PM
You know, I'm honestly starting to hope we don't make the playoffs. What a complete and utter embarrassment this team is. If we make the playoffs, it will make a mockery of Major League Baseball.

As horrible as we've played, the White Sox currently have the same record as the Twins, so they're hardly deserving, either. The division champion isn't "the team that played the best over the last week", it's "the team that won the most over 162 games". Early games count just as much. Also, not to make excuses, but we have played the last month without the best player on the team (and maybe in the league). If you recall, a month or two many people didn't even think we'd be even close at this point. Yes, it's very frustrating that we can't win a damn game, but if we can get in, it's hardly a mockery.

Fenway
09-27-2008, 09:14 PM
Still tonight's game turned on the horrific umpiring behind the plate by Larry Vanover. Vazquez could not buy a strike and finally put a meatball over the plate.

Vanover has been simply awful in every game I have seen him call.

Sadly it got to Vazquez head.

I'm watching the Cleveland feed and even they were appalled at his strike zone.

At least a win tomorrow and it goes to Monday...

Jurr
09-27-2008, 09:16 PM
As horrible as we've played, the White Sox currently have the same record as the Twins, so they're hardly deserving, either. The division champion isn't "the team that played the best over the last week", it's "the team that won the most over 162 games". Early games count just as much. Also, not to make excuses, but we have played the last month without the best player on the team (and maybe in the league). If you recall, a month or two many people didn't even think we'd be even close at this point. Yes, it's very frustrating that we can't win a damn game, but if we can get in, it's hardly a mockery.
Yeah, but if you remember, we said that in 04 when Thomas and Ordonez went down. It didn't help, then, either.
The sad thing about this team is that when going right, the offense has the talent (or did have the talent once upon a time) to succeed, even without Quentin and Crede. I've rarely seen a team this susceptible to pressure.

That said, this goes way beyond just the offense. It's just bad all over. The starting pitchers work hard and watch the bullpen blow it. Some nights, the offense pitches in and the starters can't hold it. This team just folded on all fronts at the wrong time. Oh, well. You can't win it all every year.

Did this team make progress this year? Yup. Remember, we're in a transition period. New blood is being infused into the pitching staff as well as the offense. We've got some promising building blocks (actually, cornerstones) in Floyd, Danks, Quentin, Ramirez, and (possibly) Richard. Keep phasing out the old, plodding offensive players and the underachieving pitchers (like Vazquez and Macdougal), and you're onto something special.

Brian26
09-27-2008, 09:17 PM
Still tonight's game turned on the horrific umpiring behind the plate by Larry Vanover. Vazquez could not buy a strike and finally put a meatball over the plate.

Vanover has been simply awful in every game I have seen him call.

Sadly it got to Vazquez head.

I'm watching the Cleveland feed and even they were appalled at his strike zone.

Not surprisingly, Hawk was all over the umpire too.

jdm2662
09-27-2008, 09:19 PM
Not surprisingly, Hawk was all over the umpire too.

And he said this was a good umpiring crew yesterday. Shows you he's always on top of things.

Fenway
09-27-2008, 10:36 PM
Just win on Sunday.

Do the Royals have another win in them?

For the White Sox to win it has to go to Monday but still if the Twins lose tomorrow and the Sox win then beating Freddie and the Kitties will do it.

The White Sox will be in St Petersburg later this week, I just know it.

The Immigrant
09-27-2008, 10:43 PM
I appreciate your enthusiasm Fenway, but the last week has been such a soul-crushing experience that I find it laughable to expect this team to win two games in a row to get into the playoffs (assuming Minnesota loses), much less a third one against the Minnesota boogeymen.

mantis1212
09-27-2008, 10:54 PM
Just win on Sunday.

Do the Royals have another win in them?

For the White Sox to win it has to go to Monday but still if the Twins lose tomorrow and the Sox win then beating Freddie and the Kitties will do it.

The White Sox will be in St Petersburg later this week, I just know it.

Your post just put a smile on my face.

Think about it- if this weekend so far the twins beat the Royals twice and the sox beat the indians twice, everyone here would be pumped up ready to watch baseball tomorrow.

It hasn't been pretty, but the sox just need to win a couple games to make the playoffs. Two days ago we would have killed to be in this position

TommyJohn
09-27-2008, 10:55 PM
Just win on Sunday.

Do the Royals have another win in them?

For the White Sox to win it has to go to Monday but still if the Twins lose tomorrow and the Sox win then beating Freddie and the Kitties will do it.

The White Sox will be in St Petersburg later this week, I just know it.


Must...not...say...anythiiiinnngggg......

Fenway
09-27-2008, 11:12 PM
Your post just put a smile on my face.

Think about it- if this weekend so far the twins beat the Royals twice and the sox beat the indians twice, everyone here would be pumped up ready to watch baseball tomorrow.

It hasn't been pretty, but the sox just need to win a couple games to make the playoffs. Two days ago we would have killed to be in this position

I am hard pressed to remember any race that has been this goofy on the final weekend. The Twins should have wrapped it up BUT DID NOT.

The brass ring is still there...somebody will step up Sunday.

Actually I wouldn't be shocked if both teams lose again tomorrow. The Royals are red hot and the Indians want to finish above .500.

This is why we love baseball.

DSpivack
09-27-2008, 11:24 PM
I am hard pressed to remember any race that has been this goofy on the final weekend. The Twins should have wrapped it up BUT DID NOT.

The brass ring is still there...somebody will step up Sunday.

Actually I wouldn't be shocked if both teams lose again tomorrow. The Royals are red hot and the Indians want to finish above .500.

This is why we love baseball.

This is why we love baseball? To see the most disheartening, heart-breaking finish by the team I've rooted for since I was 9? And I thought 2005 was why I loved baseball.

anewman35
09-27-2008, 11:38 PM
This is why we love baseball? To see the most disheartening, heart-breaking finish by the team I've rooted for since I was 9? And I thought 2005 was why I loved baseball.

This week has been miserable, nobody will deny that. BUT, if we can just snap out of it and win (depending on what Minnesota does) 2 or 3 games, then it'll go down as a very exciting end to the season. IF we can win a couple games, I think the crap will make it all the more sweeter. And, if not, well, it's not like we were going to do **** in the playoffs anyway.

Lip Man 1
09-27-2008, 11:39 PM
Spivack:

Remember who Fenway roots for, a team with unlimited money that's made the postseason four of the last five years and won two rings.

It's easy to LOVE baseball in those circumstances.

I seriously wonder if Fenway was an big of a fan, when the Red Sox were garbage in the 1960's, drawing 18,000 on opening day at Fenway Park.


Anewman:


I don't care if the Sox got swept in the first round without scoring a single run, it's STILL a far site better then sitting at home especially the way this last week has played out. There's no way to know how they'd do in the post season if they don't get there.

Lip

DSpivack
09-27-2008, 11:41 PM
Spivack:

Remember who Fenway roots for, a team with unlimited money that's made the postseason four of the last five years and won two rings.

It's easy to LOVE baseball in those circumstances.

I seriously wonder if Fenway was an big of a fan, when the Red Sox were garbage in the 1960's, drawing 18,000 on opening day at Fenway Park.

Lip

Well, also pennant races to the finish are exciting. I enjoyed the Padres and Rockies last season. But the the Rockies surged to the finish. The Twins and Sox right now is whichever loser falters first, though.

anewman35
09-27-2008, 11:44 PM
Anewman:


I don't care if the Sox got swept in the first round without scoring a single run, it's STILL a far site better then sitting at home especially the way this last week has played out. There's no way to know how they'd do in the post season if they don't get there.


I don't disagree. I'm mostly just saying that I don't care to try to make myself not slit my wrists when we don't make it. If I can convince myself that it doesn't really matter anyway, maybe I won't take it quite as hard, or something. I honestly don't think we would have much of a chance in the playoffs, but I do know that, if we make it, we'll always have that extra year on the "AL Division Champions" banner, and that's something I want to have.

anewman35
09-27-2008, 11:48 PM
Remember who Fenway roots for, a team with unlimited money that's made the postseason four of the last five years and won two rings.

It's easy to LOVE baseball in those circumstances.

I seriously wonder if Fenway was an big of a fan, when the Red Sox were garbage in the 1960's, drawing 18,000 on opening day at Fenway Park.


I think it's easy to LOVE baseball even with ****ty teams, as long as you don't expect too much from it. Most of us here grew up with Sox teams that never seemed to have too much of a chance, but I'd still say most of us think we love baseball. It all depends on your expectations, I guess - if you're one who thinks anything other than a World Series is a failure, then, yes, it might be hard to love the Pirates. However, even bad seasons have their good times, even for the worst teams, and there's still plenty to love if you really care about the game.

Fenway
09-27-2008, 11:55 PM
Spivack:

Remember who Fenway roots for, a team with unlimited money that's made the postseason four of the last five years and won two rings.

It's easy to LOVE baseball in those circumstances.

I seriously wonder if Fenway was an big of a fan, when the Red Sox were garbage in the 1960's, drawing 18,000 on opening day at Fenway Park.

Lip

Lip

In 1967 Opening Day at Fenway against the White Sox the crowd was 8500 and I was one of them.

Right now the Red Sox payroll is maybe 5th or 6th since they unloaded Manny.

Bottom line is with a win tomorrow the White Sox are very much alive no matter what the Twins do.

Thank Bowie Kuhn and the 1972 Red Sox that makeup games have to be played. Boston lost the East by 1/2 game to the Tigers and MLB said that would never happen again.

Rest assured Twins fans are not sleeping well tonight either as the last place they want to be Tuesday is USCF.

A win tomorrow and the sky will look brighter.

mantis1212
09-27-2008, 11:56 PM
I am hard pressed to remember any race that has been this goofy on the final weekend. The Twins should have wrapped it up BUT DID NOT.

The brass ring is still there...somebody will step up Sunday.

Actually I wouldn't be shocked if both teams lose again tomorrow. The Royals are red hot and the Indians want to finish above .500.

This is why we love baseball.

I seem to remember the 98 Cubs playing like this. Lots of losing the last week along with the Giants, and it ended up with a one-game playoff in Chicago...

Fenway
09-28-2008, 12:25 AM
I seem to remember the 98 Cubs playing like this. Lots of losing the last week along with the Giants, and it ended up with a one-game playoff in Chicago...

Sunday is going to be a day fans will read about years from now. 4 teams fighting to live and all of them playing at home.

Brewers trying to get into playoffs for first time in 26 years.

Mets trying to recapture New York in October.

The White Sox just wanting to live for Monday and the Twins trying to clinch no worse than a tie.

30 years as a Red Sox fan I was in the same boat except New York HAD to lose and Rick Waits pitched the game of his life at Yankee Stadium and Boston lived for Game 163. What resulted the next day was perhaps the greatest game in baseball history which of course was the Bucky Dent game.

Baseball is designed to break your heart but it also fills you with hope.

DON'T STOP BELIEVING

DSpivack
09-28-2008, 12:35 AM
Sunday is going to be a day fans will read about years from now. 4 teams fighting to live and all of them playing at home.

Brewers trying to get into playoffs for first time in 26 years.

Mets trying to recapture New York in October.

The White Sox just wanting to live for Monday and the Twins trying to clinch no worse than a tie.

30 years as a Red Sox fan I was in the same boat except New York HAD to lose and Rick Waits pitched the game of his life at Yankee Stadium and Boston lived for Game 163. What resulted the next day was perhaps the greatest game in baseball history which of course was the Bucky Dent game.

Baseball is designed to break your heart but it also fills you with hope.

DON'T STOP BELIEVING

Thread hijack, but why are the Red Sox playing a DH tomorrow? $$$$?

jabrch
09-28-2008, 12:37 AM
I don't care if the Sox got swept in the first round without scoring a single run, it's STILL a far site better then sitting at home especially the way this last week has played out. There's no way to know how they'd do in the post season if they don't get there.

Lip

Lip, It's one game better...not sure how far that is. I remember the post season series against Seattle. That didn't feel too good either.

DSpivack
09-28-2008, 12:38 AM
Lip, It's one game better...not sure how far that is. I remember the post season series against Seattle. That didn't feel too good either.

No, but that year still kicked ass. First time in the playoffs in 7 years.

jabrch
09-28-2008, 12:39 AM
Bottom line is with a win tomorrow the White Sox are very much alive no matter what the Twins do.

Rest assured Twins fans are not sleeping well tonight either as the last place they want to be Tuesday is USCF.

A win tomorrow and the sky will look brighter.

Well said Fens..

jabrch
09-28-2008, 12:43 AM
No, but that year still kicked ass. First time in the playoffs in 7 years.

I have loved most of this year too... The past 5 days have sucked - but most of this season has rocked.

The Seattle series sucked. If someone told me we could get in the playoffs, but be assured that result, I'd pass. That hurt. The futility of the big bats in our lineup (Frank, Magglio, Lee, PK) combining for 3 hits and no HRs was just unbearable.

I'd take 93 over 2000 in a heartbeat.

Fenway
09-28-2008, 12:45 AM
Thread hijack, but why are the Red Sox playing a DH tomorrow? $$$$?

Of course it is $$$$$$$$$$$$$

Also with 2 sellouts tomorrow the Red Sox will draw over 3 Million for the first tine ever thanks to the extra seats on the roof.

I am surprised that the Yankees agreed to the separate admissions since Boston had used up their allotment.

PKalltheway
09-28-2008, 12:49 AM
I have loved most of this year too... The past 5 days have sucked - but most of this season has rocked.

The Seattle series sucked. If someone told me we could get in the playoffs, but be assured that result, I'd pass. That hurt. The futility of the big bats in our lineup (Frank, Magglio, Lee, PK) combining for 3 hits and no HRs was just unbearable.

I'd take 93 over 2000 in a heartbeat.
The end result in 2000 did suck, since the Sox scored a whopping 978 runs during that season, but the bats went silent in the playoffs. However, that was a fun, fun summer, one that this Sox fan will never forget.:smile:

Lip Man 1
09-28-2008, 01:52 AM
Jabrch:

That "2000 Central Division Champions" makes all the difference in the world on a resume.

Lip

slavko
09-28-2008, 02:22 AM
Sorry, I hold my team to slightly higher standards. When you lose 6 straight to end a season, when you only have to win essentially 1 of these games to clinch, that's beyond embarrassing. I don't want these guys to be rewarded for one of the most horrid baseball performances I've ever seen. I'm not rooting against them, but I will say it would be most pleasing to the balance of the universe if we don't make it.

There more truth in this than I care to admit and we've lost key parts, but the breakdown of the pitching staff is the main reason, the only reason, that everything else (hitting, managing, choking) looks bad. Blame whom you want.

After all of this we have to salvage a game, then beat a dead team that wishes it were done working for the year and instead has to fly to Chicago, and then get even on our home turf where we own MIN. Three "layups," but they come with a beat down pitching staff. Maybe only the first two! Hope springs eternal.

Lip Man 1
09-28-2008, 03:34 AM
Slavko:

A one game series with everything on the line is NEVER a lay-up. It only takes one bad play, one fluke play, one injury, one bad call to send eight months of work down the toilet.

The margin of error is practically zero.

It's never a layup.

Lip

Jurr
09-28-2008, 07:58 AM
Slavko:

A one game series with everything on the line is NEVER a lay-up. It only takes one bad play, one fluke play, one injury, one bad call to send eight months of work down the toilet.

The margin of error is practically zero.

It's never a layup.

Lip
Amen. This is so true with baseball, where relaxation is the key to harnessing one's ability. All Granderson, Cabrera, and co. have to do is see the ball and hit the ball. Their legs aren't shaking at the plate because nothing's on it for them. Garcia just has to hit the mitt with his stuff. As Hawk says, our guys will be aiming for a teacup.

white sox bill
09-28-2008, 10:04 AM
At the risk of sounding dumb, do we HAVE to win today? What if we both lose, Minny is still 1/2 game up, forcing us to try and tie them by playing game # 162 tomorrow? I guess I missed something here

BBaum21
09-28-2008, 10:21 AM
At the risk of sounding dumb, do we HAVE to win today? What if we both lose, Minny is still 1/2 game up, forcing us to try and tie them by playing game # 162 tomorrow? I guess I missed something here

Do you really want to count on someone else to do your work for you? At some point, we're going to have to do it ourselves. Might as well start today.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-28-2008, 10:41 AM
It has been an incredibly frustrating week to be a Sox Fan. It's a testament to how large that 2-1/2 game lead truly was that the Sox could blow it and still have an excellent shot at winning the division AFTER LOSING EVERY GAME FOR SIX DAYS.

:o:

manders_01
09-28-2008, 11:43 AM
At the risk of sounding dumb, do we HAVE to win today? What if we both lose, Minny is still 1/2 game up, forcing us to try and tie them by playing game # 162 tomorrow? I guess I missed something here

Technically no. If I've done my math correctly, the only scenario we don't play tomorrow is if we lose and they win. But as BBaum said, it'd be nice not to count on someone else to take us to the next game.

slavko
09-28-2008, 11:49 AM
Slavko:

A one game series with everything on the line is NEVER a lay-up. It only takes one bad play, one fluke play, one injury, one bad call to send eight months of work down the toilet.

The margin of error is practically zero.

It's never a layup.

Lip

Lip
That's why I had "layup" in quotes."
S

kevingrt
09-28-2008, 11:56 AM
Like the great Jim Carrey in Dumb and Dumber...

"Sooooo, you're saying there's a chance!"

There is a chance with our Sox.

ode to veeck
09-28-2008, 12:37 PM
Slavko:

A one game series with everything on the line is NEVER a lay-up. It only takes one bad play, one fluke play, one injury, one bad call to send eight months of work down the toilet.

The margin of error is practically zero.

It's never a layup.

Lip

a glass half empty apprehension that must be staggering after the last 5 games ... amazingly, Sox are still very much alive at this point and are way overdue for a win today

GO SOX

Lip Man 1
09-28-2008, 01:08 PM
Slavko:

Perhaps it would have been better to use, lay-up, then in teal. Sorry I misunderstood your meaning.

And Ode, how one view's the situation has nothing to do with the fact that in a one game situation, with zero room for error, anything can happen (and has in Game #7's for example all through history) That was my only point. And the Sox were "way overdue" for a victory Friday night....and Saturday night.

Lip

GoGoCrede
09-28-2008, 01:10 PM
Is anyone else avoiding watching any baseball shows? It's depressing to see how many other teams have already clinched. And then they always turn to the Sox and say, 'Well, the Sox have had a disappointing week..."

Fenway
09-29-2008, 10:44 PM
Well now things look a lot brighter than on Thursday night.

A one game playoff is special as they don't happen as often as one would think.

Sometimes you have a classic like the Bucky Dent game and sometimes a blowout. In 1951 the final game between Brooklyn and the Giants will live forever.

But the horror of the Metrodome is now just a painful memory. A win tomorrow makes the White Sox season special no matter what happens in the playoffs.

Good Luck and then go to St Pete.

oeo
09-29-2008, 10:45 PM
But the horror of the Metrodome is now just a painful memory.

I hope they remember it well. Kick their ****ing asses.