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View Full Version : Is Tampa simliar to the '00 Sox?


ChicagoHoosier
09-22-2008, 01:06 PM
Just thinking today... is Tampa going down the road of the Sox of '00? Put up a huge record in regular season, but go to the playoffs and face a team with an inferior record but superior playoff experience?

Just thinking IF we can hold on and make it to the playoffs, are Rays fans nervous facing a White Sox team that has playoff-tested pitchers (Burls, Jenks), and players (Dye, Konerko, Cabrera, AJ, etc)?

Plus we match up well with LAA too...

Just getting optimistic. Need to get through this week first.

FoulTerritory
09-22-2008, 01:12 PM
The difference is that the Rays are still playing well. The 2000 White Sox were in a team hitting slump when the playoffs started.

I still blame that on Manuel giving the starters too much time off post-clinch. They lost their groove.

ramorgan1
09-22-2008, 01:15 PM
... are Rays fans nervous facing a White Sox team ...

do the Rays have fans?

DaveFeelsRight
09-22-2008, 01:23 PM
do the Rays have fans?10 more than the marlins which brings the grand total to 50

LoveYourSuit
09-22-2008, 01:28 PM
big difference is the Sox starting rotation became the walking wounded by the time the play off series started vs SEA.

You will recall, Sirotka's arm was hanging from a thread. Baldwin was not 100% when he pitched game 3 and thoughts were out there to start Sean Lowe for that game (unreal). Parque was your game 1 starter. I believe Cal Aldred had another screw inserted on his elbow that year.

That should tell you how paper thin our rotation was come play off time.

The TB starting rotation is on a different playing field than that 2000 White Sox rotation.

doublem23
09-22-2008, 02:07 PM
The difference is that the Rays are still playing well. The 2000 White Sox were in a team hitting slump when the playoffs started.

I still blame that on Manuel giving the starters too much time off post-clinch. They lost their groove.

The '00 Sox never really turned it on the 2nd half. They were OK, but not like they played the 1st half. That, and their pitchers absolutely were running on fumes come October, it was a recipe for disaster.

FedEx227
09-22-2008, 02:10 PM
And just from a pure talent standpoint this current Rays team trumps what the Sox offered.

Kazmir and Garza were both top-notch prospects WAY above anything Sirotka or Baldwin were.

CashMan
09-22-2008, 02:13 PM
And just from a pure talent standpoint this current Rays team trumps what the Sox offered.

Kazmir and Garza were both top-notch prospects WAY above anything Sirotka or Baldwin were.


Edwin Jackson was pretty high, on a lot of peoples radar a few years ago.

FedEx227
09-22-2008, 08:37 PM
Yes I completely forgot he was in that rotation. Yes, he was a Dodgers top prospect going back to 2002-2003 when they rushed him to the majors at age 19.

Brian26
09-22-2008, 08:43 PM
Just thinking IF we can hold on and make it to the playoffs, are Rays fans nervous facing a White Sox team that has playoff-tested pitchers (Burls, Jenks), and players (Dye, Konerko, Cabrera, AJ, etc)?

Plus we match up well with LAA too...

I still think the Sox match up well with Tampa and LAA and can take either of them in a playoff series. The team that scares me is the Red Sox.

guillensdisciple
09-22-2008, 10:11 PM
10 more than the marlins which brings the grand total to 50
:D::D::D::D::rolling::rolling::rolling::rolling::r olling:

LoveYourSuit
09-22-2008, 10:11 PM
I still think the Sox match up well with Tampa and LAA and can take either of them in a playoff series. The team that scares me is the Red Sox.


You have to look at which crowd factor in an intense road game will be easiest to overcome.

Fenway crowd is perhaps the toughest one in all of baseball. Us Sox fans would have no chance to make noise there let alone get a ticket.

Tampa we could get a 25 - 30% Sox crowd there.

Anaheim from my past experience we can get a 5-10% crowd there.

LoveYourSuit
09-22-2008, 10:14 PM
:D::D::D::D::rolling::rolling::rolling::rolling::r olling:


I can't see how us Sox fans can ride on other teams' fan support mis-fortunes when we have been struggling to sell out the Cell here down the stretch of a pennant race.

thomas35forever
09-22-2008, 10:25 PM
I can't see how us Sox fans can ride on other teams' fan support mis-fortunes when we have been struggling to sell out the Cell here down the stretch of a pennant race.
Does attendance have to be brought up here?

LoveYourSuit
09-22-2008, 10:42 PM
Does attendance have to be brought up here?

I just don't appreciate the errogance some of us show towards other fan bases when we have our own issues "in house."

cws05champ
09-23-2008, 08:04 AM
The rays remind me more of the 05 White sox than 2000. They have good starting pitching, getting career years from guys out of their bullpen, can beat you in many different ways, play very good defense and are tough at home.

Just look at the bullpen comparisons:
Politte = Balfour
Cotts = JP Howell
Hermansson = Percival (bad back and all)
Vizcano = Wheeler
Marte = Trevor Miller
Jenks = D. Price (this is a big stretch I know because Price hasn't been used in the same manner as Jenks yet)

chaerulez
09-23-2008, 08:30 AM
The rays remind me more of the 05 White sox than 2000. They have good starting pitching, getting career years from guys out of their bullpen, can beat you in many different ways, play very good defense and are tough at home.

Just look at the bullpen comparisons:
Politte = Balfour
Cotts = JP Howell
Hermansson = Percival (bad back and all)
Vizcano = Wheeler
Marte = Trevor Miller
Jenks = D. Price (this is a big stretch I know because Price hasn't been used in the same manner as Jenks yet)

Agreed, and the 2005 White Sox lacked postseason experience as well and who really cares about postseason experience? The Red Sox have more postseason experience than any AL team, and I wouldn't consider them the favorites at all. The career years of their bullpen and strong starting pitching is a much better comparsion. The 2000 White Sox that good, they won a weak division by mashing the ball out of the ballpark and having average starting pitching. Our bullpen was actually solid with Foulke, Howry, Wunsch, Simas and Buehrle. But I don't think Baldwin, Sirtoka, Parque and Eldred really made anyone afraid going into the postseason. The 2008 Rays are a much better team talent wise than the 2000 Sox. And I'd say they are pretty even with the 2005 Sox.

doublem23
09-23-2008, 08:31 AM
I just don't appreciate the errogance some of us show towards other fan bases when we have our own issues "in house."

:scratch:

We have the 5th best attendance in the American League. Are you actually suggesting the Cell wouldn't be pack to the rafters during the play-offs?

chaerulez
09-23-2008, 08:39 AM
:scratch:

We have the 5th best attendance in the American League. Are you actually suggesting the Cell wouldn't be pack to the rafters during the play-offs?

And we've had a good number of sellouts, maybe not optimal but I never understood why attendance bothered people so much, 30,000 is a good crowd. The Twins haven't exactly been drawing like crazy to Dome either.

And what do attendance figures mean anyway? I've never understood how a Cubs attendance figure varies day to day when they are always "selling out", wouldn't the number be the same all the time? I think attendance numbers can be skewed just like any other number.

CashMan
09-23-2008, 08:56 AM
The career years of their bullpen and strong starting pitching is a much better comparsion. The 2008 Rays are a much better team talent wise than the 2000 Sox. And I'd say they are pretty even with the 2005 Sox.


Wait a year or two, and tell me if you wanna go up against that starting pitching staff of theirs.

LoveYourSuit
09-23-2008, 10:52 AM
:scratch:

We have the 5th best attendance in the American League. Are you actually suggesting the Cell wouldn't be pack to the rafters during the play-offs?


I am not suggesting that at all. The Sox fans will pack the place in the post season.


I meant to look at our history of attendance issues in the past including some head scracthers this year which even Hawk pointed out. And 5th in the AL is grasping for straws when you are 16th in the entire Majors.


I don't like to make fun off "poor" fan bases in baseball because I have felt what it is like to be in their shoes as a long time Sox fan.

tstrike2000
09-23-2008, 12:33 PM
They Rays are more like the Sox 1990, 94-68 team. The Rays just have a little more youth and talent.

TDog
09-23-2008, 01:35 PM
big difference is the Sox starting rotation became the walking wounded by the time the play off series started vs SEA.

You will recall, Sirotka's arm was hanging from a thread. Baldwin was not 100% when he pitched game 3 and thoughts were out there to start Sean Lowe for that game (unreal). Parque was your game 1 starter. I believe Cal Aldred had another screw inserted on his elbow that year.

That should tell you how paper thin our rotation was come play off time.

The TB starting rotation is on a different playing field than that 2000 White Sox rotation.

Going into the 2000 postseason, all of the White Sox starters had health issues except Sirotka. On the eve of the ALDS, there was a report that Sirotka might have a problem. No one knew the extent of the problem. In fact, the Blue Jays traded for him in the offseason. But after losing to the Mariners on that sun-kissed early October afternoon, he never pitched another major league game.

Parque had problems off and on during the season. Eldred, as noted, had a screw inserted into his elbow, which allowed him to pitch only once after he went down on July 14. Baldwin had gone down in the second half of the season. I was sitting with advance scouts from other teams when he started against the Angels on the first Sunday of September. The scouts were talking to each other about how his velocity was down. The fact that the Sox scored nine in the first, and had to stage a dramatic comeback to win the game should have made it clear to the most untrained eye that Baldwin didn't have anything. With the Sox facing elimination that last Friday afternoon in Seattle, he pitched the gutsiest game of his career.

There is no comparison that we can see between the Rays current pitching and the pitching of the 2000 White Sox.

By the same token, there is no comparison this year between the pitching of the White Sox in 2000 and 2008. Pitchers might be tired after a long season, but they do seem to be healthy. The thing is, often there are things going on that fans don't know about.

jdm2662
09-23-2008, 01:47 PM
Does attendance have to be brought up here?

Seriously. Because of the decrease in season ticket holders, I've been able to attend 10 games this year. I would've attended more, but my commute from Northbrook to the Park during the week is not pleasant.

chaerulez
09-23-2008, 02:50 PM
Wait a year or two, and tell me if you wanna go up against that starting pitching staff of theirs.

Hey, I agree with you that starting staff has more potential than what we had in 2005. Buehrle is a good pitcher but he doesn't have "ace" talent like Kazmir. Shields also has potential to be better than anyone we had in 2005. And the wild card is David Price, who I see as either a good #2 or an ace.

LoveYourSuit
09-23-2008, 03:56 PM
Going into the 2000 postseason, all of the White Sox starters had health issues except Sirotka. On the eve of the ALDS, there was a report that Sirotka might have a problem. No one knew the extent of the problem. In fact, the Blue Jays traded for him in the offseason. But after losing to the Mariners on that sun-kissed early October afternoon, he never pitched another major league game.

Parque had problems off and on during the season. Eldred, as noted, had a screw inserted into his elbow, which allowed him to pitch only once after he went down on July 14. Baldwin had gone down in the second half of the season. I was sitting with advance scouts from other teams when he started against the Angels on the first Sunday of September. The scouts were talking to each other about how his velocity was down. The fact that the Sox scored nine in the first, and had to stage a dramatic comeback to win the game should have made it clear to the most untrained eye that Baldwin didn't have anything. With the Sox facing elimination that last Friday afternoon in Seattle, he pitched the gutsiest game of his career.

There is no comparison that we can see between the Rays current pitching and the pitching of the 2000 White Sox.

By the same token, there is no comparison this year between the pitching of the White Sox in 2000 and 2008. Pitchers might be tired after a long season, but they do seem to be healthy. The thing is, often there are things going on that fans don't know about.


Baldwin did end up throwin a gem vs the Mariners at Safeco game 3. If not for the scum bag Guillen cheating with the squeeze.

That 2002 ALDS series left a horrible taste in my mouth which did not erase until 2005. Let's hope this group in 2008 gives a good fight in the ALDS and does not go hom 3 and out. Just give us a chance boys.

Eddo144
09-23-2008, 04:45 PM
:scratch:

We have the 5th best attendance in the American League. Are you actually suggesting the Cell wouldn't be pack to the rafters during the play-offs?
Criticizing other teams for poor attendance is the Cub fan signature. We don't do that on the South Side.