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KruseControl04
05-15-2002, 09:34 PM
Trade Ray! We've got Graffy to take his place. Ray is on the last year of his contract so if the Sox don't plan on keeping him, they should at least trade him while they can get something for him.

Hey, check out my new signature!

Garrison
05-15-2002, 09:48 PM
I agree with Kruser. Give Graffy the starting job and trade Ray. He's in the last year of a big contract and he'll be a high-priced free agent at the end of the year. The Sox can't keep him without losing someone else. He's not going to be worth all that money. He's expendable right now . I love Ray, but lets trade him now and get something for him before we lose him for nothing.

chisoxt
05-15-2002, 10:09 PM
Don't be fooled by Graffy's recent surge. He is a great bench player, but nothing more. The only reason I would trade Ray is if we are out of the race.

RedPinStripes
05-15-2002, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by chisoxt
Don't be fooled by Graffy's recent surge. He is a great bench player, but nothing more. The only reason I would trade Ray is if we are out of the race.

Trade ray anyway and bring up Harris or Hummel NOW!

GASHWOUND
05-15-2002, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


Trade ray anyway and bring up Harris or Hummel NOW!

A little angry bout today's game? :gulp:

But I wouldn't bring Hummel up, he's not very prolific with the bat. I'd give Harris the call up.

Garrison
05-15-2002, 10:19 PM
We can ride out Graffy's surge for the time being and then platoon Harris in at second also. I just don't think that we need Ray in order to make a pennant run. I think his playing time and contract money could be better spent on other areas of the team. With Graffy and Harris we are set at 2nd base with two very good players instead of one really good one. I like Ray, but I think with the current situation his days are numbered.

GASHWOUND
05-15-2002, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by Garrison
We can ride out Graffy's surge for the time being and then platoon Harris in at second also. I just don't think that we need Ray in order to make a pennant run. I think his playing time and contract money could be better spent on other areas of the team. With Graffy and Harris we are set at 2nd base with two very good players instead of one really good one. I like Ray, but I think with the current situation his days are numbered.

I don't think graffe is an everyday player and in the long haul will only be average. So riding on Graffy's surge will only get us so far. We still don't know what Harris will do up here so we can't say he is a very good player yet.
And Graffy is a good player, not a very good player.
And Ray will be with the team until we get closer to the trading deadline and to see who's available at the time. If we still suck with the pitching he probably will be the first one to go.

CerberusWG
05-15-2002, 10:56 PM
Trade Durham and Lee, IMO.

doublem23
05-15-2002, 11:54 PM
You're all crazy if you think Graffanino's going to keep this up.

Ray is one of the best 2B in baseball, whether you like it or not. I say make an effort to resign him, but if he's unreasonable, then we have to let him walk. You just don't dump a player as talented as Ray for no reason other than the fact that "I don't like him."

Sounds like bc2k and his irrational hatred of Frank...

Garrison
05-16-2002, 08:09 AM
I love Ray, but we need pitching and he's expendable and valuable. Instead of letting him walk at the end of the season we should trade him now and get some pitching. I don't dislike the guy. I just want what's best for the team. Ray's played her for years and done very well and it would be nice to keep him and resign him, but I think trading him would be better for us. He's going to be unreasonable in resigning him anyways, IMO.

KruseControl04
05-16-2002, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
You're all crazy if you think Graffanino's going to keep this up.

Ray is one of the best 2B in baseball, whether you like it or not. I say make an effort to resign him, but if he's unreasonable, then we have to let him walk. You just don't dump a player as talented as Ray for no reason other than the fact that "I don't like him."

Sounds like bc2k and his irrational hatred of Frank...

I'm not saying I hate Ray. I'm just saying that if we traded him we could get some good pitching. And that's what the Sox need is pitching. And now that we have K-Lo to lead off, I don't really feel that Durham is necissary. And as for resigning him, I really doubt that its gonna happen. Ray is gonna want a lot of money, and with Harris down in the minors we don't really need him.

KruseControl04
05-16-2002, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by chisoxt
Don't be fooled by Graffy's recent surge. He is a great bench player, but nothing more. The only reason I would trade Ray is if we are out of the race.

Why would we trade Ray when we're out of the race?!? The only reason the Sox would trade Ray would be to get some good pitching if we were in the race! Some good pitching would help the Sox win the division and get further in the playoffs than they did in 2000 against the M's

Randar68
05-16-2002, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by KruseControl04


Why would we trade Ray when we're out of the race?!? The only reason the Sox would trade Ray would be to get some good pitching if we were in the race! Some good pitching would help the Sox win the division and get further in the playoffs than they did in 2000 against the M's

IF we fall out of the race, you trade Ray in an instant for prospects and help anywhere you can get/need it!!!! Are you kidding me? If we're out of it you just let him walk for potentially nothing?

Paulwny
05-16-2002, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by Randar68


IF we fall out of the race, you trade Ray in an instant for prospects and help anywhere you can get/need it!!!! Are you kidding me? If we're out of it you just let him walk for potentially nothing?

Agree
No one will trade a front line pitcher for a player who will be a FA at the end of the year. Wait till we're out of it then get whatever is available.

voodoochile
05-16-2002, 12:05 PM
I love Ray, but we need pitching and he's expendable and valuable. Instead of letting him walk at the end of the season we should trade him now and get some pitching. I don't dislike the guy. I just want what's best for the team. Ray's played her for years and done very well and it would be nice to keep him and resign him, but I think trading him would be better for us. He's going to be unreasonable in resigning him anyways, IMO.

ditto...

hold2dibber
05-16-2002, 01:07 PM
Are you kidding? Trading Ray would be a HUGE mistake. I like Tony G., but he is a utility player, definitely NOT an everyday second baseman. And don't get all swept away by Harris' good (not great) performance in ST - it would be insane to think he could just step in at this point and give us decent production at 2B. It's just as likely that he'd hit .186 and get sent back down after a few weeks. We're in a penant race (okay, a division race) people - you sure as hell don't start dumping players now to add youngsters. If its veteran pitching you want (like me), the Sox have much more depth in the OF (with Lee, Rowand, Liefer, Valenzuela (sp?), and Harris) and in minor league pitching to deal. I would think you could come up with a deal for Jeff Suppan or Steve Sparks using some combination of the above without nearly the drop off you would have at 2B if you dealt Ray.

FarmerAndy
05-16-2002, 02:29 PM
I agree that we probably won't resign Ray at the end of the season, so we might as well see what we could do with him in a deal.

Graffy is a great bench player, but not an everyday guy. That's why I like him. You need to have people who can come off the bench and perform. It's a special talent. Most everyday players couldn't sit on a bench for three weeks and then jump into a game and get a few big hits. On the other side of the coin, I don't think Graffy could perform like that day in and day out. Different players are good in different roles, and Graffy is the ultimate utility guy off the bench.

If Ray is traded, I would keep Graffy in his utility role, see how Valentin would do at 2b, and bring up Crede.

Garrison
05-16-2002, 05:07 PM
Moving Jose to 2nd would be all right if he had more time to adjust. The middle of the season isn't the time to move positions. Besides, he'll take off Paulie's head with that cannon for an arm he has. The 2nd base errors wouldn't be any different.....

Iguana775
05-16-2002, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


Trade ray anyway and bring up Harris or Hummel NOW!

:jerry

"we wouldnt need to put anyone out at 2nd if we trade ray. My son, royce could cover both positions"

doublem23
05-16-2002, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by Iguana775


:jerry

"we wouldnt need to put anyone out at 2nd if we trade ray. My son, royce could cover both positions"

:jerry

Then he could bat twice in the lineup!

chisoxray
05-16-2002, 05:51 PM
If It were me calling the shots I would hold Ray till the break see what it looks like as far as signing him we have I believe its willie Harris and he is suppose to be the real deal but if Ray doesn't want the whole pie hang on to him if you think he's gonna break the bank dump him for a pitcher that is in the same situation as he is a free agent ...Think maybe Ray is laying it all out to show what he's got betcha !!!
chisoxray

KruseControl04
05-16-2002, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


If we're out of it you just let him walk for potentially nothing?

I never said don't trade Ray if we're not in it, I'm just saying why wouldn't we if we were in it? If we're in the race, we need to trade him even more so than if we were out. We're gonna need starting pitching

Garrison
05-16-2002, 06:15 PM
I think trading Ray is going to happen one way or the other. If we are out of it we can't let him walk and will want prospects etc. to rebuild. If we are in it then we need some starting pitching. Either way I don't think we are going to resign him at the end of the season. He's going to want a big piece of the pie and that means that someone else will have to give up their piece and we won't be able to work the FA market or resign anyone as easily also.

Paulwny
05-16-2002, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by Garrison
If we are in it then we need some starting pitching .

NO GM will trade a starting pitcher for a player who is a FA at the end of the year.

Garrison
05-16-2002, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny


NO GM will trade a starting pitcher for a player who is a FA at the end of the year.

I think a contender who had a need for a position player like Ray and a decent starter for whom he could compensate, then he would do the deal. If you have good pitching and they could cover losing a #3 or #4 guy, but you needed a good bat and fielder to help contend, then you'd do the deal. I don't know of any teams offhand who would fit that description, but I am saying it's possible. I just don't want to lose Ray for nothing at the end of the season. We can get by without him and be just fine. But he's valuable and has got to be worth something. As I've said before, IMO the Sox aren't resigning him anyways.

Paulwny
05-17-2002, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by Garrison


I think a contender who had a need for a position player like Ray and a decent starter for whom he could compensate, then he would do the deal. If you have good pitching and they could cover losing a #3 or #4 guy, but you needed a good bat and fielder to help contend, then you'd do the deal. I don't know of any teams offhand who would fit that description, but I am saying it's possible. I just don't want to lose Ray for nothing at the end of the season. We can get by without him and be just fine. But he's valuable and has got to be worth something. As I've said before, IMO the Sox aren't resigning him anyways.

I haven't been a fan of Rays for a few years and would like to see him traded, but it's not that easy.
You don't want to "lose Ray for nothing", yet you expect a gm to trade a starting pitcher and then watch Ray walk at the end of the year.
The number of teams Ray can be traded to are limited. While the sox are in contention KW will not trade Ray to a contender in the AL since the sox may have to battle this team for a play-off spot.