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Jaffar
09-19-2008, 02:45 PM
5 runs in the first inning. Maybe the no hitter was the worse thing to happen to the guy after missing time with his hurt/tired shoulder.

Edit* Apparently Big Z was going nuts in the dugout as well.

hawkjt
09-19-2008, 02:55 PM
7-0 with 2 out in the second. Lou may be regretting allowing Big Z to go 110 pitches first time out for the no-no. Only the cubs could have a no-no from their own pitcher doom them for the playoffs....:wink:

kittle42
09-19-2008, 02:56 PM
Cubs game threads? Man, are we grasping at straws for something to get happy about around here or what?

cleanwsox
09-19-2008, 02:58 PM
Cubs game threads? Man, are we grasping at straws for something to get happy about around here or what?

Yet you are always one of the first to post in them with your witty replies.

CubKilla
09-19-2008, 02:59 PM
Jesus Christ dude. Get a life. Everytime someone starts a Cub-centric thread, you gotta add your "who cares" B.S.

Take note..... SOME SOX FANS TAKE PLEASURE IN WATCHING ANYTHING FLUBBED BY THE CUBS.

DeadMoney
09-19-2008, 03:00 PM
Lou comes out to take him out ... and Zambrano starts walking off the field almost immediately (after Lou stepped out of the dugout). Lou points back to the mound basically telling Zambrano, "get your ass back up there!" Then comes to the mound, takes the ball and gives Zambrano a piece of his mind.

Jaffar
09-19-2008, 03:01 PM
Cubs game threads? Man, are we grasping at straws for something to get happy about around here or what?

A. It's the only game being played

B. It's in what's the score

C. The guy had shoulder problems after having a down month, missed extended time, throws a no hitter and a lot of pitches and is now getting rocked.

Seems like a reasonable discussion to me. It's not like I was talking about a collapse or anything.

Juice16
09-19-2008, 03:01 PM
New respect for Lou!

Marqhead
09-19-2008, 03:02 PM
Cubs game threads? Man, are we grasping at straws for something to get happy about around here or what?

Gotta agree. I don't think its news everytime a pitcher gets lit up, regardless of what teams he's on.

Jerko
09-19-2008, 03:02 PM
Well he DID say he wanted a new park..........

CubKilla
09-19-2008, 03:05 PM
Gotta agree. I don't think its news everytime a pitcher gets lit up, regardless of what teams he's on.

It is when he can't get out of the 2nd after a NO-HITTER

russ99
09-19-2008, 03:10 PM
It is when he can't get out of the 2nd after a NO-HITTER

Goes to show how artificial that no-hitter was. The Astros playing at home before (or better yet without) the hurricane would have clobbered him.

itsnotrequired
09-19-2008, 03:18 PM
Goes to show how artificial that no-hitter was. The Astros playing at home before (or better yet without) the hurricane would have clobbered him.

:rolleyes:

kevingrt
09-19-2008, 03:20 PM
He must really hate Wrigley Field.

white sox bill
09-19-2008, 03:23 PM
Sad thing I was seriously thinking on skipping my best friends kids HS football game tonight because I didn't want to hear the announcer to announce the cub score during the game. Of course, they wouldn't dream of giving the Sox score here in this incest infested hick town. Hence they are all cub fans

I was relieved to hear it was a day game and cubs are getting pounded

btrain929
09-19-2008, 03:24 PM
Can anyone give more detail (for people who were watching this on TV), on what happened between Carlos and Lou when he was taken out? Also, were the fans booing him when he came off, or just an indifferent reaction?

Chicken Dinner
09-19-2008, 03:30 PM
Adam Kennedy with 5 RBIs already.

DeadMoney
09-19-2008, 03:33 PM
Can anyone give more detail (for people who were watching this on TV), on what happened between Carlos and Lou when he was taken out?

Lou took a step out of the dugout and Zambrano (with ball in hand) starting walking off the field. Lou got to about the baseline, and pointed to the mound and said something (Zambrano was about halfway to the line at this point). Zambrano, sort of slithered his way back up to the mound. When Lou got there, he went off on Zambrano.

That's just from the replay I saw, which was after it actually happened (I had just gotten back to my apartment and turned it on during the comercial break). Some of this may be a little off, but I'm pretty sure thats about how it went down.

Also, were the fans booing him when he came off, or just an indifferent reaction?

I have no idea about this, I was also on the phone at the time and muted the TV.

Juice16
09-19-2008, 03:36 PM
I am willing to bet the Cub fans gave him a standing ovation.

PaleHoser
09-19-2008, 03:48 PM
And when he tanks in the post-season they'll say "Well, he threw that no-hitter". Kind of brings back the "The Cubs lost last night, but Sammy hit a home run" memories.

kittle42
09-19-2008, 03:52 PM
Yet you are always one of the first to post in them with your witty replies.

As I've said many, many times to the "why post in the thread if you think it's stupid" line of questioning - the answer is to point out that it's stupid.

hi im skot
09-19-2008, 03:55 PM
Goes to show how artificial that no-hitter was. The Astros playing at home before (or better yet without) the hurricane would have clobbered him.


:rolling:

soxfan43
09-19-2008, 03:55 PM
Cubs game threads? Man, are we grasping at straws for something to get happy about around here or what?


Maybe people are bored at work, similar to myself, and as someone pointed out, it's the only game going on right now.

kittle42
09-19-2008, 03:56 PM
Jesus Christ dude. Get a life. Everytime someone starts a Cub-centric thread, you gotta add your "who cares" B.S.

Take note..... SOME SOX FANS TAKE PLEASURE IN WATCHING ANYTHING FLUBBED BY THE CUBS.

Actually, I am among that group of fans. There is little more pleasurable than getting off the train and seeing the sad faces of Cub fans leaving Wrigley after they blew one. But since 2005, I basically keep it to myself. Prior to that, I was a "Cubs Suck" t-shirt wearing, go to a bar just to root against the Cubs, 24-hour-a-day Cub hater. I still am a 24-hour-a-day Cub hater, but thriving off their every failure and coming to gloat about it makes us closer to what Cub fans always say about us - caring more (or just as much) about their failure as our team's success. I am NOT accusing anyone here of that, just saying that it's helping the cause of that argument.

However, come NLCS or, shudder, World Series time, all bets are off. I want them nowhere near a Championship.

I hope this explains to all those shouting me down after I shout them down why I do it.

thomas35forever
09-19-2008, 03:58 PM
Wow, 11-0. The Rams really showing it to the Bears.

kittle42
09-19-2008, 03:59 PM
Wow, 11-0. The Rams really showing it to the Bears.

Going for 2 with the 9 point lead was just uncalled for!

cleanwsox
09-19-2008, 04:00 PM
As I've said many, many times to the "why post in the thread if you think it's stupid" line of questioning - the answer is to point out that it's stupid.

Well, I think your posts are stupid. . . so I was just pointing that out.

jcw218
09-19-2008, 04:01 PM
Going for 2 with the 9 point lead was just uncalled for!

I'd like to think it was a safety and 3 field goals

VenturaFan23
09-19-2008, 04:03 PM
Wow, 11-0. The Rams really showing it to the Bears.

Leave it to the Cubs to be the only team not to score any points against the Rams. :redneck

LoveYourSuit
09-19-2008, 04:06 PM
Gotta agree. I don't think its news everytime a pitcher gets lit up, regardless of what teams he's on.


Have to agree with you and Kittle.

I think the interest level of the Cubs and how they are doing is a bit creepy on this board.

The media doesn't lie about use being more worried about them than we are about our own club.

kittle42
09-19-2008, 04:08 PM
Well, I think your posts are stupid. . . so I was just pointing that out.

Thanks! Glad I could be of service. There is an ignore feature. Use it.

Chicken Dinner
09-19-2008, 04:10 PM
But it's cocky ****, I think I should get the Cy Young, Zambrano! :?:

ChiSoxFan81
09-19-2008, 04:17 PM
As if Lilly's follow up didn't clue you in, clearly this shows the no-no was a fluke. Houston was tired and had to play a "home" game at a "neutral" site. The no hit streak ended on the first pitch of this game.

itsnotrequired
09-19-2008, 04:22 PM
As if Lilly's follow up didn't clue you in, clearly this shows the no-no was a fluke. Houston was tired and had to play a "home" game at a "neutral" site. The no hit streak ended on the first pitch of this game.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

triple eyeroll for this one

kittle42
09-19-2008, 04:25 PM
As if Lilly's follow up didn't clue you in, clearly this shows the no-no was a fluke. Houston was tired and had to play a "home" game at a "neutral" site. The no hit streak ended on the first pitch of this game.

Quite arguably, all no-hitters are flukes, to some extent. Look at the list of guys who have thrown no-hitters. There is A LOT of junk in there. See Joe Cowley and Wilson Alvarez, for example.

Arguing that Zambrano's was a fluke because of where the Astros were playing or what Lilly did the next day is ludicrous. If Buehrle had no-hit the Rangers in Milwaukee under the same circumstances last season, you'd be screaming bloody murder at anyone syaing that no-hitter was somehow less legitimate.

Zambrano is a great pitcher. He threw a no-hitter. He is also a Cub and a douchebag. Just get over it.

hi im skot
09-19-2008, 04:25 PM
As if Lilly's follow up didn't clue you in, clearly this shows the no-no was a fluke. Houston was tired and had to play a "home" game at a "neutral" site. The no hit streak ended on the first pitch of this game.

Mark Buehrle's no-hitter was a fluke because the Texas Rangers were forced to leave Arlington and battle the frigid April conditions of Chicago.

Dub25
09-19-2008, 04:26 PM
As if Lilly's follow up didn't clue you in, clearly this shows the no-no was a fluke. Houston was tired and had to play a "home" game at a "neutral" site. The no hit streak ended on the first pitch of this game.

Plus, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't Z only a two pitch pitcher in the no-hitter. Only fastballs for the most part and none of his breaking stuff. Granted he didn't need it but if he didn't throw any breaking stuff maybe he is not 100%. And not being 100% showed today?

Madscout
09-19-2008, 04:28 PM
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

triple eyeroll for this one
I know it is a different day, with a different ball park, with Z having different stuff. However, it is night and day of how Z is pitching, they were playing under extreme circumstances with the hurricane and the player's family's lives uncertain. Even you can admit that the Astros were not fully in that game that Z no hit them. The whole situation doesn't exactly leave room for them to relax and focus on the job at hand.

ChiSoxFan81
09-19-2008, 04:33 PM
Quite arguably, all no-hitters are flukes, to some extent. Look at the list of guys who have thrown no-hitters. There is A LOT of junk in there. See Joe Cowley and Wilson Alvarez, for example.

Arguing that Zambrano's was a fluke because of where the Astros were playing or what Lilly did the next day is ludicrous. If Buehrle had no-hit the Rangers in Milwaukee under the same circumstances last season, you'd be screaming bloody murder at anyone syaing that no-hitter was somehow less legitimate.

Zambrano is a great pitcher. He threw a no-hitter. He is also a Cub and a douchebag. Just get over it.

I'm not arguing that it's a fluke, I'm telling you. If Z pitched one at Wrigley, or even in Houston, I'd give him all the credit. This situation was ridiculous, and the fact that they couldn't find a better site than Milwaukee was also a farce. Like I said, Lilly's start the next day only proves my point. He should be nowhere near throwing a no hitter, but look what happened. Obviously the Astros were not anywhere near 100%.


No hitter*

Bill Naharodny
09-19-2008, 04:34 PM
I know it is a different day, with a different ball park, with Z having different stuff. However, it is night and day of how Z is pitching, they were playing under extreme circumstances with the hurricane and the player's family's lives uncertain. Even you can admit that the Astros were not fully in that game that Z no hit them. The whole situation doesn't exactly leave room for them to relax and focus on the job at hand.

This is not far-fetched. Take a look at what the Astros have done offensively since the "home" series with the Cubs -- i think they've scored about a run a game since the hurricane, and traveling afterwards.

Madscout
09-19-2008, 04:34 PM
Quite arguably, all no-hitters are flukes, to some extent. Look at the list of guys who have thrown no-hitters. There is A LOT of junk in there. See Joe Cowley and Wilson Alvarez, for example.

Arguing that Zambrano's was a fluke because of where the Astros were playing or what Lilly did the next day is ludicrous. If Buehrle had no-hit the Rangers in Milwaukee under the same circumstances last season, you'd be screaming bloody murder at anyone syaing that no-hitter was somehow less legitimate.

Zambrano is a great pitcher. He threw a no-hitter. He is also a Cub and a douchebag. Just get over it.
I wouldn't. I would have seen it for what it was, a fluke game under fluke circumstances with one team not really in it.

Madscout
09-19-2008, 04:37 PM
This is not far-fetched. Take a look at what the Astros have done offensively since the "home" series with the Cubs -- i think they've scored about a run a game since the hurricane, and traveling afterwards.
Not to mention they haven't won a game, four game slide after going 10-1 in September.

itsnotrequired
09-19-2008, 04:40 PM
Mark Buehrle's no-hitter was a fluke because the Texas Rangers were forced to leave Arlington and battle the frigid April conditions of Chicago.

Also, Buehrle had never thrown one before and hasn't thrown one since. Largest fluke in history? All signs point to yes.

Also-also, Zambrano is a known crap pitcher on a crap team that plays in a ballpark that smells like pee and Old Style sux.

kittle42
09-19-2008, 04:41 PM
I wouldn't. I would have seen it for what it was, a fluke game under fluke circumstances with one team not really in it.

Well, upon reflection, I'll give some credence to this point of view - I still don't think it's quite an asterisk-qualifying set of conditions, but sure, he got put into a better situation to win with the Astros in the situation they were. Still, a no-hitter is a no-hitter. It would be very difficult, I think, for even a Sabathia or Peavy to no-hit, say, a AA team.

spawn
09-19-2008, 04:43 PM
Saying his no-hitter was a fluke is ridiculous. Anyone watching that game would've seen Zambrano was dealing. Dislike him for his antics, dislike him for being an *******, but the guy deserves credit for the no-no, no matter the circumstances.

Madscout
09-19-2008, 04:46 PM
I was going to quote this before, but I remember something from my ed phsyc class called Maslow's hierarchy of Needs. The basic idea is that if my needs on one level aren't meet, I can't think about the level above it. So if I'm hungry to the point of starvation, then I don't really have time to think about the philisophical reasons why I'm hungry, or at least it is very hard for me to do so.

Check it out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs

I would bet that the Astro's were on level two, and they were required to get to level four or five to play well.

hi im skot
09-19-2008, 04:47 PM
Saying his no-hitter was a fluke is ridiculous. Anyone watching that game would've seen Zambrano was dealing. Dislike him for his antics, dislike him for being an *******, but the guy deserves credit for the no-no, no matter the circumstances.

:nod:

SaltyPretzel
09-19-2008, 04:47 PM
Anyone know what kind of velocity he had today?

Madscout
09-19-2008, 04:53 PM
Saying his no-hitter was a fluke is ridiculous. Anyone watching that game would've seen Zambrano was dealing. Dislike him for his antics, dislike him for being an *******, but the guy deserves credit for the no-no, no matter the circumstances.
But if you argue that he was dealing, that doesn't change the fact that the mental game was against the Astros. Besides the problems I have laid out previously, they were basically playing a Cubs home game, as witnessed by the high majority of fans there being Cubs fans. Z has the mental game going for him, as it is now easier for him to make his pitches, as the batters just can't touch him. As a performer, I can tell you how easy it is to perform when it doesn't matter.

russ99
09-19-2008, 05:09 PM
But if you argue that he was dealing, that doesn't change the fact that the mental game was against the Astros. Besides the problems I have laid out previously, they were basically playing a Cubs home game, as witnessed by the high majority of fans there being Cubs fans. Z has the mental game going for him, as it is now easier for him to make his pitches, as the batters just can't touch him. As a performer, I can tell you how easy it is to perform when it doesn't matter.

Obviously some of you guys weren't watching the game - granted the Sox were on the same time... I was until I couldn't take it anymore.

Sure, Carlos was dealing and had extra zip on the fastball than recently, but can you point at one Astros hitter who was focused on the game and had a solid at-bat? Maybe Berkman in the 7th, but that's a maybe. Also, the Astros were flailing at pitches out of the zone most of the day. Had they been calm, focused or playing in front of a home or a truly neutral crowd, I'm just saying there may have been a few hits there...

I won't take the no-hitter away, nor will I asterisk it, since it's tough to throw a no-hitter in any situation, but it's very obvious Zambrano wasn't facing a team that was concentrating on hitting the baseball.

Then again, if I were in Cooper's shoes I wouldn't have let my team set foot on the field. A forfeit is better than being jobbed by Uncle Bud like that. You can also say the Milwaukee situation has effectively ruined the Astros' chances for the postseason.

BadBobbyJenks
09-19-2008, 05:20 PM
Yikes, you would be right in saying the Astros got an extremely raw deal having to play home games in Chicago North. But to discredit a guy who got 27 men out without giving up a hit is absolutely ridiculous. I don't think there is a player I dislike more than Carlos Zambrano, but seriously this kind of Cubs hate is embarrassing.

Jaffar
09-19-2008, 05:21 PM
Anyone know what kind of velocity he had today?

According to gameday his fastball was around 91-92 but he got it up to 95 a couple times.

hellview
09-19-2008, 05:27 PM
yikes, you would be right in saying the astros got an extremely raw deal having to play home games in chicago north. But to discredit a guy who got 27 men out without giving up a hit is absolutely ridiculous. I don't think there is a player i dislike more than carlos zambrano, but seriously this kind of cubs hate is embarrassing.

here here!!!!

kittle42
09-19-2008, 05:29 PM
Yikes, you would be right in saying the Astros got an extremely raw deal having to play home games in Chicago North. But to discredit a guy who got 27 men out without giving up a hit is absolutely ridiculous. I don't think there is a player I dislike more than Carlos Zambrano, but seriously this kind of Cubs hate is embarrassing.

And we wouldn't even be talking about this if the pitcher facing the Astros was from any other team. The statements made here saying that this is some sort of non-no-hitter is the kind of slop that Cub fans come here and point out to see we're all Cubsessed. It's embarrassing to Sox fandom.

hellview
09-19-2008, 05:30 PM
Then again, if I were in Cooper's shoes I wouldn't have let my team set foot on the field. A forfeit is better than being jobbed by Uncle Bud like that. You can also say the Milwaukee situation has effectively ruined the Astros' chances for the postseason.

How is quiting and walking away like a little kid more honorable then going out there in tough conditions and playing the game these players get millions of dollars to play.

Is that Milwaukee situation the reason they've crapped the bed 3 straight in Florida too.

I hate the Cubs as much as any team. But come on.

doublem23
09-19-2008, 05:44 PM
As if Lilly's follow up didn't clue you in, clearly this shows the no-no was a fluke. Houston was tired and had to play a "home" game at a "neutral" site. The no hit streak ended on the first pitch of this game.

Totally. Zambrano only has ONE no-hitter in his career. *Yawn* Call me when he hits double digits.

twentywontowin
09-19-2008, 05:48 PM
I'd like to see anyone on this board go out there and no-hit a major league line-up.

If you could do it, I will personally give you the keys to my house, my bank account, and Scout Seats for life. I'll write this in blood.

Dissing the guy on a no-hitter? I've seen it all now.

russ99
09-19-2008, 05:53 PM
And we wouldn't even be talking about this if the pitcher facing the Astros was from any other team. The statements made here saying that this is some sort of non-no-hitter is the kind of slop that Cub fans come here and point out to see we're all Cubsessed. It's embarrassing to Sox fandom.

Well maybe you wouldn't but I'm a Sox fan first and and Astros fan second. This isn't being flubsessed. I'd be upset if it were any other team, even though there's a bit extra zing vs. the Sox and Astros rivals.

And I'm not discrediting Zambrano - see my post above. A no-hitter is a no-hitter, regardless. But that doesn't mean Astros fans shouldn't be upset about this... Check out spikes 'n' stars for other peeved Stros fans. No worries, we're more peeved at our money grubbing owner, McLane than we are at Big Z.

SoxGirl4Life
09-19-2008, 05:53 PM
And we wouldn't even be talking about this if the pitcher facing the Astros was from any other team. The statements made here saying that this is some sort of non-no-hitter is the kind of slop that Cub fans come here and point out to see we're all Cubsessed. It's embarrassing to Sox fandom.


But if Cubs fans don't care about the Sox why are they coming to this board to see people being obsessed?

Just a question, don't bite my virtual head off. :D:

doublem23
09-19-2008, 05:54 PM
But if Cubs fans don't care about the Sox why are they coming to this board to see people being obsessed?

Just a question, don't bite my virtual head off. :D:

Because they're just as Soxsessed.

Jaffar
09-19-2008, 06:16 PM
He had the DL trip at the end of June with shoulder soreness as well. This should be concerning and newsworthy not just cubsessive.

8/9 4.1 IP 9ER
8/15 6.0 IP 5ER
8/21 7 IP 1ER
8/26 4.1 IP 6ER
9/2 5 IP 3ER Left with pain, refused injection MRI
9/14 9 IP 0ER
9/19 1.2 IP 8ER

daveeym
09-19-2008, 07:15 PM
Well, hate to burst all your bubbles that are hoping it was injury related. But his grandmother passed away and he spent 12 hours on a flight to Venezuela on Wed. and 12 more back last night.

doublem23
09-19-2008, 07:16 PM
Well, hate to burst all your bubbles that are hoping it was injury related. But his grandmother passed away and he spent 12 hours on a flight to Venezuela on Wed. and 12 more back last night.

Source?

P.S., you haven't proven it's not injury-related. :dunno:

Madscout
09-19-2008, 08:06 PM
And we wouldn't even be talking about this if the pitcher facing the Astros was from any other team. The statements made here saying that this is some sort of non-no-hitter is the kind of slop that Cub fans come here and point out to see we're all Cubsessed. It's embarrassing to Sox fandom.
Except that this situation wouldn't happen with any other team except the Cubs. Name another team that this could possibly happen to, a team where the MLB is looking for a dome to replace some games, and they pick a place that is about 1 hour from a large fan base of the rival team. I can't think of one, except maybe our Sox, but other than the thing that happened in Cleveland last year it isn't gonna happen, not where the families of the players are in danger. Just works out perfect for everyone except the team who is supposed to be having a HOME game, and we have seen how important those are this year.

DumpJerry
09-19-2008, 08:21 PM
Well, hate to burst all your bubbles that are hoping it was injury related. But his grandmother passed away and he spent 12 hours on a flight to Venezuela on Wed. and 12 more back last night.
I was going to post this, too. He flew down to Venezuela on Weds to be with his grandma. She passed away yesterday and he returned in time to pitch today. Round trip in 2.5 days. This was reported on Channel 5.

He deserves a break today. People are jumping on him because of who he is. If this was a different player, we'd be expressing our condolences.

EndemicSox
09-19-2008, 08:25 PM
Respect to Z for even attempting to pitch today....I still want him on the south-side!

:runs away:

Jaffar
09-19-2008, 09:46 PM
I was going to post this, too. He flew down to Venezuela on Weds to be with his grandma. She passed away yesterday and he returned in time to pitch today. Round trip in 2.5 days. This was reported on Channel 5.

He deserves a break today. People are jumping on him because of who he is. If this was a different player, we'd be expressing our condolences.

First I have heard of this, that's too and crazy that he was expected back to pitch today. I hope nobody thought I was wishing injury on him though.

DumpJerry
09-19-2008, 10:18 PM
First I have heard of this, that's too and crazy that he was expected back to pitch today. I hope nobody thought I was wishing injury on him though.
He said he wanted to pitch. In the postgame press conference, "Sweet" Lou sounded like a WSI poster-he lit into Zambozo for his conduct when he was pulled. At Channel 5 they speculated Lou was unaware of what had gone on in Zambozo's life in the previous 48 hours.

How could Lou not know? Oh well, he is a nut job himself.

alohafri
09-19-2008, 11:35 PM
He said he wanted to pitch. In the postgame press conference, "Sweet" Lou sounded like a WSI poster-he lit into Zambozo for his conduct when he was pulled. At Channel 5 they speculated Lou was unaware of what had gone on in Zambozo's life in the previous 48 hours.

How could Lou not know? Oh well, he is a nut job himself.

What he had gone through would excuse the pitching performance...but he needs to control himself better otherwise. It is his usual antics after A) a bad outing B) he thinks he is being pulled without a chance to get himself out of trouble.