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barryball
09-19-2008, 01:19 PM
Below is September 2005 and I am pretty sure on or around this date back then we were at about the same point of being 1.5 or 2.5 games ahead. The team as we all know hit the skids in August and September and recovered nicely at the end :D:. Now we are at the same point we were than and we clinched it in DET just prior to going to Clev. We can be at about the same point if we take care of business in KC this weekend. The Bold Pichers names are WINS. I can only hope we get hot the next 6 games just like we did in 2005!!

149September 19 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_19)Indians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Indians)7 - 5Betancourt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Betancourt) (4-3)Marte (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damaso_Marte) (3-4)Wickman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Wickman) (44)35,74890-59150September 20 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_20)Indians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Indians)7 - 6 (10)Hermanson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dustin_Hermanson) (2-4)Riske (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Riske) (3-4)26,14791-59151September 21 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_21)Indians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Indians)8 - 0Elarton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Elarton) (11-7)Garland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Garland) (17-10)36,54391-60152September 22 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_22)Twins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Twins)4 - 1 (11)Crain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Crain) (11-5)Jenks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Jenks) (1-1)Nathan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Nathan) (39)25,11291-61153September 23 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_23)Twins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Twins)3 - 1Contreras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Contreras) (14-7)Lohse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Lohse) (9-13)28,00392-61154September 24 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_24)Twins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Twins)8 - 1Garcia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddy_Garcia) (13-8)Mays (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Mays) (6-10)37,69993-61155September 25 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_25)Twins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Twins)4 - 1Buehrle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Buehrle) (16-8)Liriano (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Liriano) (0-2)30,40294-61156September 26 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_26)@ Tigers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Tigers)4 - 3Rodney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Rodney) (2-3)Politte (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Politte) (6-1)10,84094-62157September 27 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_27)@ Tigers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Tigers)3 - 2Robertson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nate_Robertson) (7-15)McCarthy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_McCarthy) (2-2)Rodney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Rodney) (9)13,98394-63158September 28 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_28)@ Tigers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Tigers)8 - 2Contreras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Contreras) (15-7)Douglass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Douglass) (5-5)17,22195-63159September 29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_29)@ Tigers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Tigers)4 - 2Garcia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddy_Garcia) (14-8)Grilli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Grilli) (1-1)Jenks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Jenks) (4)13,49496-63160September 30 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_30)@ Indians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Indians)3 - 2 (13)Politte (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Politte) (7-1)Cabrera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Cabrera_(baseball)) (2-1)Jenks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Jenks) (5)41,07297-63161October 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_1)@ Indians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Indians)4 - 3Garland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Garland) (18-10)Westbrok (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Westbrook) (15-15)Jenks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Jenks) (6)41,02698-63162October 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2)@ Indians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Indians)3 - 1McCarthy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_McCarthy) (3-2)Elarton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Elarton) (11-9)Hernandez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_Hern%C3%A1ndez) (1)41,03499-63

IronFisk
09-19-2008, 01:26 PM
Below is September 2005 and I am pretty sure on or around this date back then we were at about the same point of being 1.5 or 2.5 games ahead. The team as we all know hit the skids in August and September and recovered nicely at the end :D:.

That team had great pitching for most of the way - it was the offense that sputtered. Now, all facets are sputtering. Also - they relied far more on "smallball" than we do now - and it really paid off in the postseason.

oeo
09-19-2008, 01:38 PM
That team had great pitching for most of the way - it was the offense that sputtered. Now, all facets are sputtering. Also - they relied far more on "smallball" than we do now - and it really paid off in the postseason.

We've had great starting pitching. :dunno:

And, I'm not sure which postseason you remember, but I remember a bunch of huge homeruns.

ALDS: Homerun heavy overall in Game 1 (even Pods hit one), but AJ's homer to give us a 5 run lead in the first, Iguchi's bomb in Game 2, Konerko's bomb in Game 3; ALCS: Konerko's first inning homeruns in Games 3 and 4 to give us early leads; World Series: Crede's Game 1 homer, Konerko's Grand Slam, Pods' Walk Off, and Blum's game winner. Yep, that was small ball.

JB98
09-19-2008, 01:40 PM
We've had great starting pitching. :dunno:

And, I'm not sure which postseason you remember, but I remember a bunch of huge homeruns.

Yeah, the won Game 4 of the World Series with small ball. Other than that, they just hit the living **** out of the ball all October.

WhiteSox5187
09-19-2008, 01:49 PM
Yeah, the won Game 4 of the World Series with small ball. Other than that, they just hit the living **** out of the ball all October.
Game two of the ALCS seemed to have a pretty big stolen base as I recall. There were a lot of homeruns, but that offense was much better balanced than the one we had now so we weren't just sitting back waiting on the homerun, which is more or less what we are doing now.

oeo
09-19-2008, 01:51 PM
Game two of the ALCS seemed to have a pretty big stolen base as I recall. There were a lot of homeruns, but that offense was much better balanced than the one we had now so we weren't just sitting back waiting on the homerun, which is more or less what we are doing now.

They were dependent on the homerun. If they were in a power slump, they would not have won the World Series. Game 4 of the World Series was actually a terribly executed game (same with Game 3...if that team was great at small ball, no way that game goes 14 innings; we finally got the homerun and everyone was happy). We got a gem from Freddy in Game 4 and won 1-0...that's not really something to brag about offensively.

JB98
09-19-2008, 01:54 PM
Game two of the ALCS seemed to have a pretty big stolen base as I recall. There were a lot of homeruns, but that offense was much better balanced than the one we had now so we weren't just sitting back waiting on the homerun, which is more or less what we are doing now.

Game 2 of the ALCS also featured a huge, clutch extra-base hit with two outs. Game 4 of the World Series also featured a clutch base hit with two outs.

A lot is made of the lack of small ball by the 2008 White Sox, but the real weakness is the utter lack of two-out hitting, especially with RISP. The Sox have been at the bottom of the league ALL YEAR as far as two-out production.

Bunts and stolen bases are basically useless if you can't get the clutch hit to knock the run in.

TommyJohn
09-19-2008, 02:07 PM
The 2005 team had better pitching, starting and relief. I mean, I'd love to see them go 9-0 or 8-1 the rest of the way (with the last game with Detroit not needed) but I don't know. One can only hope.

hawkjt
09-19-2008, 02:35 PM
It seems to me the Indians cut the lead to 1.5 in the last ten days of the season then the sox came back and clinched on the last wednesday of the season. Poetic justice would be served if the sox could somehow run off some wins coupled with twins losses in tampa and clinch it against the twins on wednesday...not likely but I can dream.

JB98
09-19-2008, 02:43 PM
It seems to me the Indians cut the lead to 1.5 in the last ten days of the season then the sox came back and clinched on the last wednesday of the season. Poetic justice would be served if the sox could somehow run off some wins coupled with twins losses in tampa and clinch it against the twins on wednesday...not likely but I can dream.

I have confidence the Rays are gonna win a couple games against the Twins before the weekend is over. I just wish the White Sox could pull it together and win three or four in a row. Just a modest winning streak would get the job done now.

oeo
09-19-2008, 03:10 PM
The 2005 team had better pitching, starting and relief. I mean, I'd love to see them go 9-0 or 8-1 the rest of the way (with the last game with Detroit not needed) but I don't know. One can only hope.

I think the only thing that really separates our starting staff now to 2005 is the lack of a 5th starter. Otherwise, they've been just as good, IMO.

More of a veteran presence for sure in that 2005 staff, but our Top 4 have been pretty damn good just like in '05.

white sox bill
09-19-2008, 03:18 PM
This time 3 yrs ago, we were in major gag status. The press was having an orgasm ripping us along w/the other team in town fans. I was on Tums every 3rd hour and was looking into black market Prozac. My sleep patterns were interupted every hour...

cws05champ
09-19-2008, 03:24 PM
many relievers had career years in 2005 and the whole staff top to bottom was lights out. That is the real big difference between now and then. when we are throwing Ho Ramirez and Wasserman out there late in a playoff race...there's something wrong.

doublem23
09-19-2008, 03:24 PM
Ah! The formatting!

Konerko05
09-19-2008, 03:26 PM
Does it really matter what happened in 2005? This is a completely different team.

I'm also sick of the 2006 Cardinal comparisons. What do the 2006 Cardinals have to do with the 2008 White Sox?

doublem23
09-19-2008, 03:33 PM
I'm also sick of the 2006 Cardinal comparisons. What do the 2006 Cardinals have to do with the 2008 White Sox?

Disproves the CW that "you have to be hot to win in October."

delben91
09-19-2008, 03:35 PM
Does it really matter what happened in 2005? This is a completely different team.

I'm also sick of the 2006 Cardinal comparisons. What do the 2006 Cardinals have to do with the 2008 White Sox?

Nothing relates to anything.

That about sums it up.

:happybday

Konerko05
09-19-2008, 04:06 PM
Disproves the CW that "you have to be hot to win in October."

It proved the 2006 Cardinals didn't have to be hot to win in October.

It says nothing about the 2008 White Sox.

I'm not saying the White Sox can't win in October. I just think that comparison has been thrown around this forum way too much.

Frater Perdurabo
09-19-2008, 09:04 PM
The 2005 Sox won the World Series because they could beat their opponents in so many different ways.

They had great starting pitching.

They had great bullpen pitching. (Marte was the only weak link and Viz, while at times shaky, ate innings.)

They could hit the long ball.

They could manufacture runs in tight games.

They had pretty good defense. Pods was the only below-average fielder.

The 2008 Sox have gotten some pretty good starting pitching and early in the year got some great bullpen work, with Dotel/Thornton-Linebrink-Jenks to close out games when needed. They also certainly can hit the long ball and often do so in bunches.

On the other hand, the 2008 Sox get shut out or held to 1-2 runs a lot. They are utterly incapable of executing any fundamentals or getting timely RISP hits with two outs.

It's not trolling to say that they need to rectify the situation - and/or go on an extended collective hot streak at the plate - if they want to make and advance far in the playoffs.

MarySwiss
09-19-2008, 10:41 PM
The 2005 Sox won the World Series because they could beat their opponents in so many different ways.

They had great starting pitching.

They had great bullpen pitching. (Marte was the only weak link and Viz, while at times shaky, ate innings.)

They could hit the long ball.

They could manufacture runs in tight games.

They had pretty good defense. Pods was the only below-average fielder.

The 2008 Sox have gotten some pretty good starting pitching and early in the year got some great bullpen work, with Dotel/Thornton-Linebrink-Jenks to close out games when needed. They also certainly can hit the long ball and often do so in bunches.

On the other hand, the 2008 Sox get shut out or held to 1-2 runs a lot. They are utterly incapable of executing any fundamentals or getting timely RISP hits with two outs.

It's not trolling to say that they need to rectify the situation - and/or go on an extended collective hot streak at the plate - if they want to make and advance far in the playoffs.

Or they could make the playoffs by the hairs on their chinny-chin-chins---and go nuts in the postseason. Glass is half-full, Frater.

WhiteSox5187
09-20-2008, 12:19 AM
Game 2 of the ALCS also featured a huge, clutch extra-base hit with two outs. Game 4 of the World Series also featured a clutch base hit with two outs.

A lot is made of the lack of small ball by the 2008 White Sox, but the real weakness is the utter lack of two-out hitting, especially with RISP. The Sox have been at the bottom of the league ALL YEAR as far as two-out production.

Bunts and stolen bases are basically useless if you can't get the clutch hit to knock the run in.
Absolutely correct, however bunting and stolen bases can make it so instead of needing a double or a homerun to drive in that winning run, a single would get the job done.

As far as October, ANYTHING can happen in October which makes it so great, but i'd feel a lot better about this team if we were able to play better sound fundamental baseball.

Adele_H
09-20-2008, 12:28 AM
We've had great starting pitching. :dunno:

And, I'm not sure which postseason you remember, but I remember a bunch of huge homeruns.

.

Yep. Just to mention some big-ass HR from 2005 postseason:

AJ -ALDS G1
Iguchi - ALDS G2
Konerko - ALDS G3

Konerko - ALCS G3
Konerko - ALCS G4
Crede - ALCS G4

Dye WS G1
Konerko WS G2
Podsednik WS G2
Blum WS G3


Again.... 2005 team were Road monsters. 2008 team is more talented than 2005 but has yet to show that kind of uncanny ability to peak at the most critical moments - both in a given game and the season as a whole.

.

MISoxfan
09-20-2008, 12:57 AM
We complained about Marte so much in '05, but I'd take him on this team and last years team as well. And not just the current Marte, but the '05 off-year one.

jabrch
09-20-2008, 01:20 AM
It's not trolling to say that they need to rectify the situation - and/or go on an extended collective hot streak at the plate - if they want to make and advance far in the playoffs.

I think it is all about timing. We have all the pieces - we just didn't often put them all together. That's not to say we can't...

Lip Man 1
09-20-2008, 01:22 AM
Bunts and stolen bases can also lead directly to runs themselves. Putting pressure on the defense sooner or later results in a ball being thrown into left field, into the stands or down the first base line.

Lip

IronFisk
09-20-2008, 02:20 AM
We've had great starting pitching. :dunno:

And, I'm not sure which postseason you remember, but I remember a bunch of huge homeruns.

ALDS: Homerun heavy overall in Game 1 (even Pods hit one), but AJ's homer to give us a 5 run lead in the first, Iguchi's bomb in Game 2, Konerko's bomb in Game 3; ALCS: Konerko's first inning homeruns in Games 3 and 4 to give us early leads; World Series: Crede's Game 1 homer, Konerko's Grand Slam, Pods' Walk Off, and Blum's game winner. Yep, that was small ball.

Eventually yeah, I was more or less meaning how we got there in the first place. Nothing like this year at all.

As for our starting pitching this year, I would not exactly call it "great" - good, not great.

LoveYourSuit
09-20-2008, 02:58 AM
I think the only thing that really separates our starting staff now to 2005 is the lack of a 5th starter. Otherwise, they've been just as good, IMO.

More of a veteran presence for sure in that 2005 staff, but our Top 4 have been pretty damn good just like in '05.


OMG are you way off on that one.

The front 4 of our current rotation cannot play on the same field as those 4 from 2005. Contreras was as good for that run if not better than any othe pitcher in the game including Johan Santana. Mark Buehrle finished that year with 16 wins and ERA of 3.12 ... his numbers this year are almost there but not as good. Gavin and Garland are a wash IMO. Danks will come no where close to giving us the innings Freddy gave us that year.


Let's not even go there with comparing the bullpens.

Thome_Fan
09-20-2008, 03:14 AM
Now, we are talking about baseball here right? Because there are many times when I read these posts and I can't tell anymore.

Did we forget that baseball is the weirdest and hardest to predict sport ever? That the things that look good on paper and seem to make logical sense often don't work out that way? For instance, look at the "amazing, sure to win the AL Central for the next million years" Tigers.

Let's stop fretting and just ride along. Complaining about the bullpen or the inconsistent/power hitting isn't going to change anything, especially at this point in the season.

I for one am enjoying this winning season. I'm gonna sit back, relax, and strap it down for October. Which is my birthday month, incidentally. What a great possible birthday present.
:bandance:

Frater Perdurabo
09-20-2008, 07:13 AM
Or they could make the playoffs by the hairs on their chinny-chin-chins---and go nuts in the postseason. Glass is half-full, Frater.

I still think/hope/believe/pray that the Sox will win the division. But their hitters need to hit for that to happen. As go the bats, so go the 2008 Sox. This is not a team very good at winning 2-1 games, unlike the 2005 Sox. That was my point.