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View Full Version : *Official* "Well, that stunk" 9/18/08 Postgame Thread


Viva Medias B's
09-18-2008, 09:22 PM
We did not need this.

veeter
09-18-2008, 09:22 PM
We're definitely not peaking too early.

Whitesoxfan23
09-18-2008, 09:23 PM
I'm really considering going on a strike of watching this team. And now we are about to be 1.5games back. I am ******* livid. This team simply isn't that good of a team.

SOXfnNlansing
09-18-2008, 09:23 PM
Only scoring 1 run in the first inning was the key. Seems like we score in the first and that's it. It worked in 05 but not this year:(:

KingXerxes
09-18-2008, 09:24 PM
Things we learned tonight:

1. The White Sox have got to step it up.
2. Ken Harrelson is far more sensitive than we previously knew.

That about sums it up for me.

DumpJerry
09-18-2008, 09:24 PM
I was watching the game while working out at my health club. Missed most of the game because the television broke during the 4th Inning.


I threw a 20 pound dumbbell at the television. It broke.

chisoxmike
09-18-2008, 09:25 PM
:anon:

TheOldRoman
09-18-2008, 09:26 PM
A horrible performance all around. As terrible as Vazquez was, it didn't matter. The offense was every bit as bad. I would have been much angrier if Javy went 8 innings and gave up 2 runs but took the loss. When giving up two runs losses the game (not counting Konerko's garbage time homer off a Single A pitcher), you are in trouble. We faced a mediocre call up Monday, a horrible pitcher yesterday, and Mussina today. I guess they were all due. A complete non-effort tonight.

JB98
09-18-2008, 09:26 PM
I had to turn this game off in the sixth inning. I just couldn't take it any longer.

Horrible, lackluster effort. Poor performance in all areas.

southsideirish71
09-18-2008, 09:26 PM
2 games below 500 for the month now.

September numbers

11th in the AL in runs scored.
12th in hits
12th in batting average with a .250 BA.
Last in OBP
13th in OPS


Greg and the Loosey Goosey crew earning their keep.

Konerko05
09-18-2008, 09:27 PM
Is anyone else having second thoughts about Buehrle and Floyd pitching on 3 days rest the next two games?

JB98
09-18-2008, 09:28 PM
2 games below 500 for the month now.

September numbers

11th in the AL in runs scored.
12th in hits
12th in batting average with a .250 BA.
Last in OBP
13th in OPS


Greg and the Loosey Goosey crew earning their keep.

The offense is now the Sox biggest problem.

kittle42
09-18-2008, 09:28 PM
This is why anyone who uses the "It doesn't matter the Sox lost because the Twins lost, too" for any loss is just foolish. ALL THOSE GAMES MATTER. The Championship is not decided on a day-by-day basis.

KingXerxes
09-18-2008, 09:28 PM
Is anyone else having second thoughts about Buehrle and Floyd pitching on 3 days rest the next two games?

Are there any real options?

JB98
09-18-2008, 09:28 PM
Is anyone else having second thoughts about Buehrle and Floyd pitching on 3 days rest the next two games?

Yes.

veeter
09-18-2008, 09:29 PM
Is anyone else having second thoughts about Buehrle and Floyd pitching on 3 days rest the next two games?Isn't Danks going tomorrow?

TheOldRoman
09-18-2008, 09:29 PM
The offense is now the Sox biggest problem.:?: It has been the entire year. Even during the recent streak of the bullpen being horrible, the offense was garbage, too.

Konerko05
09-18-2008, 09:29 PM
The offense is now the Sox biggest problem.

Cabrera seems like the only player hitting right now.

Give Anderson a start tomorrow.

KingXerxes
09-18-2008, 09:29 PM
This is why anyone who uses the "It doesn't matter the Sox lost because the Twins lost, too" for any loss is just foolish. ALL THOSE GAMES MATTER. The Championship is not decided on a day-by-day basis.

The Twins got 5 in the 9th and are now leading 11-8.

Fortunately their bullpen is a bunch of kerosene salesmen lately. We'll see.

JB98
09-18-2008, 09:30 PM
Isn't Danks going tomorrow?

No. Buehrle, then Floyd, then Danks in Kansas City.

PeoriaSoxFan
09-18-2008, 09:30 PM
The Minnesota comeback makes this all the more depressing. My only hope is that we take 2 out of 3 at KC and Minn loses 2 of the next 3 at TB. With KC winning 7 in a row and the Sox playing like they are, I really have no faith in us holding up our part of that bargain.

ChiSoxGirl
09-18-2008, 09:31 PM
Only scoring 1 run in the first inning was the key. Seems like we score in the first and that's it. It worked in 05 but not this year:(:

I said this, too. We loaded the bases TWICE in the first inning and only managed one measly run- on a 4-6 fielder's choice off the bat of Konerko. And as the innings went on, Mussina only got stronger. Way too many squandered opportunities not only tonight, but over the last five games when the Twins have been crapping the bed. But then again, we're doing a pretty damn good job of crapping the bed, too! :angry:

And as if we don't have enough trouble with the Royals, they're riding a seven game winning streak! We're catching them at the worst time- our offense is comatose and the Royals have forgotten how to lose.

Patrick134
09-18-2008, 09:33 PM
I said this, too. We loaded the bases TWICE in the first inning and only managed one measly run- on a 4-6 fielder's choice off the bat of Konerko. And as the innings went on, Mussina only got stronger. Way too many squandered opportunities not only tonight, but over the last five games when the Twins have been crapping the bed. But then again, we're doing a pretty damn good job of crapping the bed, too! :angry:

And as if we don't have enough trouble with the Royals, they're riding a seven game winning streak! We're catching them at the worst time- our offense is comatose and the Royals have forgotten how to lose.

I'd rather catch the royals on a 7 game winning streak than a losing streak...they're due to lose.

Woofer
09-18-2008, 09:33 PM
This team is playing like it has given up. This is hard to watch, I never have hated a first place Sox team as much as this one. This is not a playoff caliber team, and it sucks to say that. They are sleepwalking and staggering right now, they just have not been right since Quentin went down. I am hoping for a good weekend, hopefully the Sox can show up.

kittle42
09-18-2008, 09:34 PM
I'd rather catch the royals on a 7 game winning streak than a losing streak...they're due to lose.

I've always kind of believed in this line of thought, too.

Konerko05
09-18-2008, 09:34 PM
No. Buehrle, then Floyd, then Danks in Kansas City.

Danks should just start tomorrow on normal rest. If they want to give Danks a couple days rest, then start Broadway.

I was iffy about the 3 days rest plan when it was announced. Today's outing solidified my opinion. The Sox should not have any more starters pitching on 3 days rest.

tstrike2000
09-18-2008, 09:35 PM
Sucks. Down to the final stretch boys and girls.

guillensdisciple
09-18-2008, 09:36 PM
I have been overly optimistic about the White Sox for the past two weeks when they have seemingly wanted to lose every game. My optimism has run thin at this point. I have been paying very careful attention to the Twins the past few ganes and after today (the Twinkies are winning 11-8) I realized that the Twins have fought their ass off to stay in this thing. They have come back against the Indians in game 2, almost ran Cliff Lee out of Cleveland and today roughed up a good pitcher. Also they came back twice and one time in the ninth.

As far as I am concerned the Twins are bad but they want it more at the moment. Their starting pitching hasn't been doing it but they have been coming damn close and tonight they finally broke through. I am starting to get that feeling of heat from the Twins just like in '03. If the sox lose a game to the royals that will be a disappointment. It is an absolute necessity that the Sox win so they can assure themselves the furthest lead possible from the twins.

I will be worried going into minny with a 3.5 game lead. The sox aren't hitting except for in extremely large spurts and we are happy because it seems like they can hit.

We NEED consistency. Another thing; my optimism has run out on the playoffs. If the sox make it they would have to play the AL East winner and the Sox just aren't good against the East. They have lost all the series to the top 4 teams. Something doesn't stack up.

I love the Sox and I hate being so up and down with this team but at this point I can no longer expect the best. I am not declaring defeat but I am treading cautiously.

kitekrazy
09-18-2008, 09:36 PM
And as if we don't have enough trouble with the Royals, they're riding a seven game winning streak! We're catching them at the worst time- our offense is comatose and the Royals have forgotten how to lose.

Yeah, I'm worried about the Royals. The Twins are also hitting the ball well.

PeoriaSoxFan
09-18-2008, 09:37 PM
Positive thoughts.....stay positive, I keep telling myself. We have a 1.5 game lead with 10 to play. I would have easily taken that offer at the beginning of the year. A win tomorrow would sure make me feel a lot better about that...

Frater Perdurabo
09-18-2008, 09:39 PM
This team is gutless.

I still love the Sox and always will, but they have no guts.

DumpJerry
09-18-2008, 09:39 PM
I'd rather catch the royals on a 7 game winning streak than a losing streak...they're due to lose.

I've always kind of believed in this line of thought, too.
So did I until we faced the Blue Jays earlier this month.

chisoxfanatic
09-18-2008, 09:40 PM
And as if we don't have enough trouble with the Royals, they're riding a seven game winning streak! We're catching them at the worst time- our offense is comatose and the Royals have forgotten how to lose.
Haven't we been catching every team at the worst time the past month? It so seems like that!

I knew the game was over when we couldn't capitalize on that golden opportunity to score a glut of runs there in the 1st. We sent 7 men to the plate, scoring only 1 run.

This divisional race is making my stomach churn!

JB98
09-18-2008, 09:40 PM
Danks should just start tomorrow on normal rest. If they want to give Danks a couple days rest, then start Broadway.

I was iffy about the 3 days rest plan when it was announced. Today's outing solidified my opinion. The Sox should not have any more starters pitching on 3 days rest.

They're not trying to give Danks rest. They are trying to set the rotation to make sure Floyd starts against Minnesota.

guillensdisciple
09-18-2008, 09:41 PM
So did I until we faced the Blue Jays earlier this month.

Exactly! The white sox will find a way to lose it. Maybe now it will be the decline of the starting pitching. No harmony on this squad.


This might just be a depressing last 10 games by the look of things today.

thomas35forever
09-18-2008, 09:41 PM
I always have trouble staying positive on nights like this. Yes it's one game, but the Sox are running out of time. They as a whole (I'm done pointing out certain areas) better get their asses in gear this weekend or it'll be sayonara to '08. Lose this series and I'll probably lose faith in us winning in Minnesota. What a disappointing club.

TheOldRoman
09-18-2008, 09:41 PM
The Minnesota comeback makes this all the more depressing. My only hope is that we take 2 out of 3 at KC and Minn loses 2 of the next 3 at TB. With KC winning 7 in a row and the Sox playing like they are, I really have no faith in us holding up our part of that bargain.Minnesota is not a good team. I have said all year that if the Twins win the division, it will be because the Sox choked and fell apart. Well, the Sox have completely choked and fallen apart, but to this point, the Twins have done just as bad. For as crappy as the Twins are, they find ways to win, and they ride momentum. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this win tonight launched them on a winning streak (though I don't think it will). The Sox, on the other hand, are masters of blowing momentum, whether it be not scoring after having runners on 2nd and 3rd with no out, or falling on their faces two games in a row after hitting a "dramatic" walk-off homer. The Sox should have put this thing away long ago.

They just lost 3 of 4 to a pretty bad Yankees team (as of late). In those 3 games, they scored 4 runs. The "effort" pur forth tongiht was not what one would expect from a team in the Sox' position, but that is pretty much what we have been seing all year. Inconsistency, lackadaisical play, bad fundamentals, bad baserunning and swinging for the fences. Hopefully the Sox can try a little harder tomorrow night.

Konerko05
09-18-2008, 09:44 PM
I just deleted my post from the "Rotation- last 2 weeks" thread plotting our playoff rotation. I now feel that was extremely premature and would bring our Sox bad luck until I deleted it.

oeo
09-18-2008, 09:44 PM
This team is gutless.

I still love the Sox and always will, but they have no guts.

How does it always come back to this? You're wrong.

I didn't see the game, I don't want to know what happened. Go get the Royals, I guess.

chisoxfanatic
09-18-2008, 09:44 PM
I always have trouble staying positive on nights like this. Yes it's one game, but the Sox are running out of time. They as a whole (I'm done pointing out certain areas) better get their asses in gear this weekend or it'll be sayonara to '08. Lose this series and I'll probably lose faith in us winning in Minnesota. What a disappointing club.
I just try to remember that we're still 2 games up in the loss column. That's the only way we can look at it.

Soxman219
09-18-2008, 09:46 PM
Haven't we been catching every team at the worst time the past month? It so seems like that!

I knew the game was over when we couldn't capitalize on that golden opportunity to score a glut of runs there in the 1st. We sent 7 men to the plate, scoring only 1 run.

This divisional race is making my stomach churn!

I'm out of Tums, I losing it here!:(: Please don't take the Royals lightly!

JB98
09-18-2008, 09:46 PM
This team is gutless.

I still love the Sox and always will, but they have no guts.

They have guts. That's how they've gotten this far.

Their weaknesses are just coming home to roost at the worst possible time.

guillensdisciple
09-18-2008, 09:46 PM
Minnesota is not a good team. I have said all year that if the Twins win the division, it will be because the Sox choked and fell apart. Well, the Sox have completely choked and fallen apart, but to this point, the Twins have done just as bad. For as crappy as the Twins are, they find ways to win, and they ride momentum. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this win tonight launched them on a winning streak (though I don't think it will). The Sox, on the other hand, are masters of blowing momentum, whether it be not scoring after having runners on 2nd and 3rd with no out, or falling on their faces two games in a row after hitting a "dramatic" walk-off homer. The Sox should have put this thing away long ago.

They just lost 3 of 4 to a pretty bad Yankees team (as of late). In those 3 games, they scored 4 runs. The "effort" pur forth tongiht was not what one would expect from a team in the Sox' position, but that is pretty much what we have been seing all year. Inconsistency, lackadaisical play, bad fundamentals, bad baserunning and swinging for the fences. Hopefully the Sox can try a little harder tomorrow night.

Honestly I don't know how anyone can handle this with any dignity. I was on the yellow line going to school and it was PACKED with cubs fans. When I was coming home it was PACKED with cubs fans. I they began talking about the great come back they had today, scoring 4 runs in the ninth inning with two outs. That made me angry, not at the cubs or the fans, but at these damn sox. I just want to see some damn life out of this team I can't stand watching every game and throwing emotion like this or I am going to go crazy.

kruzer31
09-18-2008, 09:46 PM
I just deleted my post from the "Rotation- last 2 weeks" thread plotting our playoff rotation. I now feel that was extremely premature and would bring our Sox bad luck until I deleted it.


Too late, once its posted the Bad Luck was there, and it doesnt matter if you delete it now

oeo
09-18-2008, 09:46 PM
So did I until we faced the Blue Jays earlier this month.

The Royals are not exactly the Blue Jays.

They just beat up on the worst team in baseball. That's not exactly something that wows me. Everyone has been slapping the Mariners around this year.

guillensdisciple
09-18-2008, 09:49 PM
Too late, once its posted the Bad Luck was there, and it doesnt matter if you delete it now

We create bad luck and good luck. If you don't believe it to be true it isn't true.

ChiSoxGirl
09-18-2008, 09:49 PM
I'd rather catch the royals on a 7 game winning streak than a losing streak...they're due to lose.

This is true, but the Jays were due to lose, too, and we only took one from them.... It just seems like nothing is going our way- we faced Cliff Lee a couple weeks ago when he won his 20th, we faced the Jays' three best pitchers last week, we're getting the Royals on a seven game winning streak, and by all accounts, it looks like we'll face Lee again next Sunday. I'm not making excuses because there are none at this point, but as tough as things are right now, they just seem tougher because of the things I mentioned above.

Adele_H
09-18-2008, 09:50 PM
We did not need this.

No, no we didn't. :(:

Positives:

--Greg Walker will "resign" if Sox fail to make postseason. Small consolation.

--At least Twins have lost another heart-breaker and Sox maintain a 3 game lead... oh wait, no they didn't, and no they don't.

--Cabrera is playing like a mang, a 10 mill dollar a year mang. About damn time, Orlando.

--Dotel & Konerko looked good in garbage time, a tiny confidence boost if nothing else. Hey, I am trying here.

Negatives:

--Our premier run-producers/line-up protectors - Dye, Thome - are looking old & clueless any time a pitcher makes a half-way decent pitch so far in September......... Contrast it with Twins 3-4 hitter Joe Mauerneu who is giving quality AB after quality AB even when it makes outs. (No wonder that without their leadership even our most clutch hitter Alexei is looking all out of sorts lately)

--4 man rotations are NOT a good thing. Buerhle got shellacked in Kansas City not long after going on 3-day rest, and Vazquez did again.

--Vazquez teased us all yet again the last couple of outings, but the old adage still holds true: Javier and "big game" don't mix very well. .500 pitcher in his career despite having a golden arm. Alternately tries too hard & anxiously nibbles - bad combination.




Paging killer instinct, leadership. Paging killer instinct, leadership.

Royals are trotting out 3 BP starting pitchers; if Sox can't win 2 of 3, maybe they really don't deserve the division.


.

TheOldRoman
09-18-2008, 09:50 PM
This team is playing like it has given up. This is hard to watch, I never have hated a first place Sox team as much as this one. This is not a playoff caliber team, and it sucks to say that. They are sleepwalking and staggering right now, they just have not been right since Quentin went down. I am hoping for a good weekend, hopefully the Sox can show up.This team is gutless.

I still love the Sox and always will, but they have no guts.Yes. The two weeks have been almost a carbon copy of the last two months of 2006. Getting steamrolled, putting up no fight at all. Bad bullpen work, worse hitting. Picking up 1 or 2 run 3 games in a row, and then "exploding" for a bunch to make people think the bats had woken up. I just hope this ends differently. Even if we knock 3 off the magic number this weekend, it will take a Sox sweep in Minny to win the division. This thing will get decided next weekend. Unless, of course, the Sox go into Minnesota DOWN by 1.5.:angry:

guillensdisciple
09-18-2008, 09:52 PM
No, no we didn't. :(:

Positives:

--Greg Walker will "resign" if Sox fail to make postseason. Small consolation.

--At least Twins have lost another heart-breaker and Sox maintain a 3 game lead... oh wait, no they didn't, and no they don't.

--Cabrera is playing like a mang, a 10 mill dollar a year mang. About damn time, Orlando.

--Dotel & Konerko looked good in garbage time, a tiny confidence boost if nothing else

Negatives:

--Our premier run-producers/line-up protectors - Dye, Thome - are looking old & clueless any time a pitcher makes a half-way decent pitch so far September. Contrast it with Twins 3-4 hitter Joe Mauerneu who are giving quality AB after quality AB even when they make outs. (No wonder that without their leadership even our most clutch hitter Alexei is looking all out of sorts lately)

--4 man rotations are NOT a good thing. Buerhle got shellacked in Kansas City not long after going on 3-day rest, and Vazquez did again.

--Vazquez teased us all yet again the last couple of outings, but the old adage still holds true: Javier and "big game" don't mix very well. .500 pitcher in his career despite having a golden arm. Alternately tries too hard & anxiously nibbles - bad combination.




Paging killer instinct, leadership. Paging killer instinct, leadership.

Royals are trotting out 3 BP starting pitchers; if Sox can't win 2 of 3, maybe they really don't deserve the division.


.

If the sox lose the upcoming series you can create their tombstone for the 08 year regardless if the twins lose the next 3.

Whitesoxfan23
09-18-2008, 09:53 PM
In all honesty, I can't wait for the season to be over with. I'm tired of being stressed out. I just hope the Sox somehow hang on.

sox1970
09-18-2008, 09:53 PM
Last night's game hurts more. They made their bed.

Whitesoxfan23
09-18-2008, 09:55 PM
I'm excited for next season. I hope they fix alot of the problems that we have had this season.

oeo
09-18-2008, 09:55 PM
If the sox lose the upcoming series you can create their tombstone for the 08 year regardless if the twins lose the next 3.

People have been saying this for a month now. If the Sox don't win this series, they're done. If they don't do this, they're done. :scratch:

I think your ass is talking. :dunno:

A win tomorrow, and everything will be fine around here again. You guys need to stop looking for answers, there just aren't any.

Tragg
09-18-2008, 09:56 PM
More Broadway, less MacDougal, Ramirez, crap career middle reliever of your choice. Ramire can't man-up and give us a decent few innings tonight? Come on.

We got lucky with Wise, but he had his week. Let's not overdo it by making him the starter (and that does not mean Jerry Owens - he's far worse).

TheOldRoman
09-18-2008, 09:57 PM
They have guts. That's how they've gotten this far.

Their weaknesses are just coming home to roost at the worst possible time.I disagree. We have had far too many games like today where the team just absolutely didn't want to be there. If we take away the games the Sox have completely thrown away and given no effort in, this team is a lot different. It isn't just losing, its that in so many of the losses there was no fight put up whatsoever. After blowing one huge chance at momentum (such as in the first inning tonight), not only does the pitching respond immediately by giving up runs, but the offense does their best Eeyore, sulks with their tails between their legs and says "why bother?"

RockJock07
09-18-2008, 09:59 PM
It really doesn't matter who pitches for this team, It really doesn't. We can sit here and say Danks should start here, or Mark should start here, but until this offense produces with men on base, it doesn't matter.

I'm really getting sick and tired of this ****. It's been time for the Sox to turn it on for the past 2-3 weeks, they've been playing with fire for 2-3 weeks, at some point they are going to get burned.

Medford Bobby
09-18-2008, 09:59 PM
In all honesty, I can't wait for the season to be over with. I'm tired of being stressed out. I just hope the Sox somehow hang on.
But that's what the Bears are for...:o:

Frankfan4life
09-18-2008, 10:00 PM
In all honesty, I can't wait for the season to be over with. I'm tired of being stressed out. I just hope the Sox somehow hang on.My feelings exactly. I'm practically drained. I worry about every game. As noted here, not one game from here on out is a sure thing.

JB98
09-18-2008, 10:01 PM
I disagree. We have had far too many games like today where the team just absolutely didn't want to be there. If we take away the games the Sox have completely thrown away and given no effort in, this team is a lot different. It isn't just losing, its that in so many of the losses there was no fight put up whatsoever. After blowing one huge chance at momentum (such as in the first inning tonight), not only did the pitching respond immediately by giving up runs, but the offense did their best Eeyore and said "why bother?"

I don't feel that's the case at all. I do think we've lost some of our "fight" and our intensity when Quentin got injured. I think his competitive nature was part of this team's personality for most of the year.

This is a hot-and-cold power team. We've seen it for the last decade as Sox fans. When they are hitting home runs, they are unstoppable. When they aren't, they suck. It's not really about guts, or even talent. It's the way the team is constructed.

guillensdisciple
09-18-2008, 10:01 PM
People have been saying this for a month now. If the Sox don't win this series, they're done. If they don't do this, they're done. :scratch:

I think your ass is talking. :dunno:

Read my first post for this thread. I have been OVERLY optimistic about the sox lately and it has been painful to see my optimism go up my ass. It is irritating to put up a happy face when I continually watch such crap on the field. I would rather be cautious and the sox prove me wrong then be brought down after being optimistic.

I will agree many people have said that about the sox many times this year and the sox have found ways to stay in first. Unfortunately a loss to the royals does more then just change our win/ loss percentage. Imagine how the sox are feeling now? Like crap, imagine how they will feel if they lose to the royals? Like the world will cave in. Do you want that crap in Minnesota?

The Sox HAVE to win this series. A sweep would be best but it is ABSOLUTELY necessary that the sox win the series. They must feel some kind of confidence going into the minnesota series.

Foulke You
09-18-2008, 10:01 PM
The dreary road woes continue for our beloved Pale Hose.:(: I agree with a previous poster who said the offense is the biggest problem right now. The pitching was good enough this series to take 3 of 4 games and we just couldn't get anything going on offense. It was like a replay of Toronto all over again. I know some will disagree with me but I think we need to put Nick Swisher back in the lineup. He has had a couple days to rest and re-focus. Throw him in there and hope for some taters and walks.

This division race has been so damn frustrating because we have had boat loads of chances to distance ourselves but we seem intent on making those 3 games at the Metrodome decide the division. I've heard the 2003 comparisons but this is different. That 2003 Twins team was much better than this mediocre 2008 version. The Twins aren't really "catching" us in the race more than we are just slowing ourselves down to allow them to catch up.

Adele_H
09-18-2008, 10:02 PM
2 games below 500 for the month now.

September numbers

11th in the AL in runs scored.
12th in hits
12th in batting average with a .250 BA.
Last in OBP
13th in OPS


Greg and the Loosey Goosey crew earning their keep.

aka the 'Pucker Posse'.

They are swinging for milestones. Alexei wants 20 HR. Konerko wants 20 HR. Swisher wants 30 (even Walker admitted in interview). Jermaine Dye seemingly spent the entire month of September fantasizing about the magical 40 HR mark. And until his recent hot streak, Cabrera set his sights on 10 - no doubt at his agent's urging going into FA, it'd be nice to be able to say that "hey I can hit double digit HR, commit single-digit errors, steal 20 bags... I am all-around player, gimme big $$$"

The weather is getting colder all around the country, though. Maybe that's it.

.

JB98
09-18-2008, 10:02 PM
The dreary road woes continue for our beloved Pale Hose.:(: I agree with a previous poster who said the offense is the biggest problem right now. The pitching was good enough this series to take 3 of 4 games and we just couldn't get anything going on offense. It was like a replay of Toronto all over again. I know some will disagree with me but I think we need to put Nick Swisher back in the lineup. He has had a couple days to rest and re-focus. Throw him in there and hope for some taters and walks.

This division race has been so damn frustrating because we have had boat loads of chances to distance ourselves but we seem intent on making those 3 games at the Metrodome decide the division. I've heard the 2003 comparisons but this is different. That 2003 Twins team was much better than this mediocre 2008 version. The Twins aren't really "catching" us in the race more than we are just slowing ourselves down to allow them to catch up.

I won't disagree with you.

southsideirish71
09-18-2008, 10:03 PM
The Royals are not exactly the Blue Jays.

They just beat up on the worst team in baseball. That's not exactly something that wows me. Everyone has been slapping the Mariners around this year.

Our offense and our bullpen in september is one of the worst in the American league. Just because we show up, that doesnt mean we will win. This will require some of our vets to man up, and act like they care. To play hard and win.

TheOldRoman
09-18-2008, 10:04 PM
It really doesn't matter who pitches for this team, It really doesn't. We can sit here and say Danks should start here, or Mark should start here, but until this offense produces with men on base, it doesn't matter.

I'm really getting sick and tired of this ****. It's been time for the Sox to turn it on for the past 2-3 weeks, they've been playing with fire for 2-3 weeks, at some point they are going to get burned.There have been two or three times this year where the offense came off an absolutely terrible road trip (the foremost being the 1-3 in Tampa and Ozzie's tirade). Each time, they went home and exploded for a few days with the offense. Well, they hit the road this time after a terrible offensive homestand (except for the last game). The offense has been worse than it was last week. Right now, we have six more games on the road before "home cooking" can fix our offense again. If the offense doesn't improve before then, those 3 home games won't matter at all.

RockJock07
09-18-2008, 10:05 PM
I don't feel that's the case at all. I do think we've lost some of our "fight" and our intensity when Quentin got injured. I think his competitive nature was part of this team's personality for most of the year.

This is a hot-and-cold power team. We've seen it for the last decade as Sox fans. When they are hitting home runs, they are unstoppable. When they aren't, they suck. It's not really about guts, or even talent. It's the way the team is constructed.

Great Post, I agree 100%. This teams needs a drastic makeover and until that happens we have to live and die with the HR. I want a team that gets on base and steals, hits and runs, BUNTS. We have see this power team for 5+ years and it hasn't worked. The one year we had a legit leadoff hitter, we won the WS. Time for more speed and better defense. Get cracking Kenny, you have quite the winter ahead of you.

chisoxfanatic
09-18-2008, 10:06 PM
In all honesty, I can't wait for the season to be over with. I'm tired of being stressed out. I just hope the Sox somehow hang on.
Try being a 24/7 sports fan. If the Sox aren't playing, I'm avidly pulling for the Blackhawks and Bears, and will occasionally watch the Bulls. I will tell you that a hockey season takes more out of you than any other. By the time Sox season kicks in, I'm already drained, and then begins the marathon that is a baseball season. Being a hardcore well-rounded sports fan can be stressful.

Adele_H
09-18-2008, 10:07 PM
Danks should just start tomorrow on normal rest. If they want to give Danks a couple days rest, then start Broadway. .

No, no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no Broadway. I beg.

KingXerxes
09-18-2008, 10:08 PM
Great Post, I agree 100%. This teams needs a drastic makeover and until that happens we have to live and die with the HR. I want a team that gets on base and steals, hits and runs, BUNTS. We have see this power team for 5+ years and it hasn't worked. The one year we had a legit leadoff hitter, we won the WS. Time for more speed and better defense. Get cracking Kenny, you have quite the winter ahead of you.

I agree that this is a "Boom or Bust" team. No doubt, but I look at this a little differently than most.

Let's suppose that the White Sox DO win the division (whether that be by backing into it or getting their act together and winning it). If they "get hot" in the playoffs, they've got a pretty good chance of success.

They just need to get there.

guillensdisciple
09-18-2008, 10:08 PM
Try being a 24/7 sports fan. If the Sox aren't playing, I'm avidly pulling for the Blackhawks and Bears, and will occasionally watch the Bulls. I will tell you that a hockey season takes more out of you than any other. By the time Sox season kicks in, I'm already drained, and then begins the marathon that is a baseball season. Being a hardcore well-rounded sports fan can be stressful.
Yeesh I feel for you!

Foulke You
09-18-2008, 10:08 PM
The Sox HAVE to win this series. A sweep would be best but it is ABSOLUTELY necessary that the sox win the series. They must feel some kind of confidence going into the minnesota series.
You will get no arguments from me here. I think a sweep is asking too much because we haven't swept a team on the road since waaaay back in May when we took 3 against the Tribe at the Jake. 2 of 3 is more realistic. We have our ace Buehrle on the hill tomorrow against Bannister who is 8W-15L with a 5.77 E.R.A. Post all star break, Bannister's E.R.A. is a robust 6.83!! No excuses for the offense tomorrow. Time for them to snap out of it.

EDIT: We also miss Grienke AND Gil Meche in this upcoming series.

Whitesoxfan23
09-18-2008, 10:11 PM
Try being a 24/7 sports fan. If the Sox aren't playing, I'm avidly pulling for the Blackhawks and Bears, and will occasionally watch the Bulls. I will tell you that a hockey season takes more out of you than any other. By the time Sox season kicks in, I'm already drained, and then begins the marathon that is a baseball season. Being a hardcore well-rounded sports fan can be stressful.

Well my other teams, the Dallas Cowboys, and OU Sooners seem to be having less stressful games overall, so far. My other team, the OKC Thunder... Well I don't expect them to be good anyway.

chisoxfanatic
09-18-2008, 10:11 PM
You will get no arguments from me here. I think a sweep is asking too much because we haven't swept a team on the road since waaaay back in May when we took 3 against the Tribe at the Jake. 2 of 3 is more realistic. We have our ace Buehrle on the hill tomorrow against Bannister who is 8W-15L with a 5.77 E.R.A. Post all star break, Bannister's E.R.A. is a robust 6.83!! No excuses for the offense tomorrow. Time for them to snap out of it.
I don't think he's our ace anymore. Floyd's dethroned him.

Just for clarification, my idea of an ace is the one you'd throw out there in a must-win situation and does not have anything to do with previous year's track records. It all has to do with the "now."

doublem23
09-18-2008, 10:13 PM
I don't think he's our ace anymore. Floyd's dethroned him.

Just for clarification, my idea of an ace is the one you'd throw out there in a must-win situation and does not have anything to do with previous year's track records. It all has to do with the "now."

Don't be so flightly. Buehrle is the $14 million man, he's the ace. Gavin is the ace-in-training.

Soxman219
09-18-2008, 10:13 PM
Try being a 24/7 sports fan. If the Sox aren't playing, I'm avidly pulling for the Blackhawks and Bears, and will occasionally watch the Bulls. I will tell you that a hockey season takes more out of you than any other. By the time Sox season kicks in, I'm already drained, and then begins the marathon that is a baseball season. Being a hardcore well-rounded sports fan can be stressful.

This Bulls season is going to take a lot out of me. Last year made me so angry that I didn't watch the Sox until mid-April. I don't care as much for the Bears, though.

guillensdisciple
09-18-2008, 10:16 PM
Don't be so flightly. Buehrle is the $14 million man, he's the ace. Gavin is the ace-in-training.

Anyone putting Danks in the running? The guy has been quite exceptional for the Sox this year.

chisoxfanatic
09-18-2008, 10:18 PM
Don't be so flightly. Buehrle is the $14 million man, he's the ace. Gavin is the ace-in-training.
The $14 million means nothing to me when Gavin has out-pitched everyone in our rotation.

TheOldRoman
09-18-2008, 10:23 PM
I won't count on the offense waking up and responding to adversity (like the Twins' offense has the last three games), but Buehrle's start tomorrow is HUGE. We need to take at least 2 of 3 this weekend. I wasn't a fan of the 4 man rotation from the start. Vazquez dropped a bomb tonight. If Buehrle can't win tomorrow, I would push Danks up to Saturday, throw Richard or Broadway on Sunday, and have Gavin start Tuesday. That way, Gavin doesn't go on short rest, and we lead off against the Twins with our best pitcher. I don't know who the Twins will throw on Sunday, but I can guarantee that Liriano will be going against the Sox on Monday.

itsnotrequired
09-18-2008, 10:23 PM
So was this the loss that officially knock the Sox out? Other than the 80 or so other games this year that surely spelled the Sox demise?

:rolleyes:

Adele_H
09-18-2008, 10:24 PM
until this offense produces with men on base, it doesn't matter.
.

People knock Ryan Howard this year because of his low BA and lots of Ks...

But one thing he's shown this year is he UNDERSTANS what it takes to hit with Runners On base even when he struggles: bad hitter with bases empty, but once he gets runners on, sees defense come in a little, sees the pitcher sweat throwing out of the stretch - BOOM, he becomes a Hall-of-Famer. 135 RBI.

Situational hitting on this team lately has been dreadful. That's why I constantly reference 'killer instinct' it really does come down to how badly you want it and are you willing to change your approach accordingly.


.

tstrike2000
09-18-2008, 10:25 PM
The Sox bullpen is one thing, but at this point we need to pray someone goes from offensive zero to hero from now until the end of the season. 1 out of 4 good offensive games isn't boding too well as we head towards those 3 games at the Hefty cinch sak garbage bag dome.

JB98
09-18-2008, 10:33 PM
I won't count on the offense waking up and responding to adversity (like the Twins' offense has the last three games), but Buehrle's start tomorrow is HUGE. We need to take at least 2 of 3 this weekend. I wasn't a fan of the 4 man rotation from the start. Vazquez dropped a bomb tonight. If Buehrle can't win tomorrow, I would push Danks up to Saturday, throw Richard or Broadway on Sunday, and have Gavin start Tuesday. That way, Gavin doesn't go on short rest, and we lead off against the Twins with our best pitcher. I don't know who the Twins will throw on Sunday, but I can guarantee that Liriano will be going against the Sox on Monday.

Checking the pitching probables, Liriano is scheduled to pitch Sunday.

Konerko05
09-18-2008, 10:34 PM
No, no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no Broadway. I beg.

I'm not a Broadway fan at all. I don't think he is anything special. Having Broadway pitch against Kansas City just seems like a better option than throwing 2 more of our big pitchers on 3 days rest. Vazquez looked awful on short rest. There is also the after effect. Like I previously stated though, the best option would be starting Danks tomorrow on regular rest.

TheOldRoman
09-18-2008, 10:36 PM
Checking the pitching probables, Liriano is scheduled to pitch Sunday.I know, that is what I mean. I have no doubt in my mind they will push him back.

Adele_H
09-18-2008, 10:36 PM
I won't count on the offense waking up and responding to adversity (like the Twins' offense has the last three games),

.

Seeing the unheralded, much-criticised, power-challenged Twins line-up erase a 8-1 deficit to go up 9-8 in Cle, and then turn 7-4 deficit into 11-8 win in Tampa just in the last 3 days alone ... Makes me ask the following question:

When was the last time our All-Star studded offense amassed a dramatic comeback of any sort on the Road? :scratch:



/

sox1970
09-18-2008, 10:39 PM
I won't count on the offense waking up and responding to adversity (like the Twins' offense has the last three games), but Buehrle's start tomorrow is HUGE. We need to take at least 2 of 3 this weekend. I wasn't a fan of the 4 man rotation from the start. Vazquez dropped a bomb tonight. If Buehrle can't win tomorrow, I would push Danks up to Saturday, throw Richard or Broadway on Sunday, and have Gavin start Tuesday. That way, Gavin doesn't go on short rest, and we lead off against the Twins with our best pitcher. I don't know who the Twins will throw on Sunday, but I can guarantee that Liriano will be going against the Sox on Monday.

They won't adjust the rotation now. It's set.

KC: Buehrle-Bannister; Floyd-Davies; Danks-Duckworth
Min: Vazquez-Baker; Buehrle-Perkins; Floyd-Blackburn or Slowey
Cle: Danks-Lewis; Vazquez-Jackson; Buehrle-Lee
Det: Floyd-TBA

Adele_H
09-18-2008, 10:40 PM
I'm not a Broadway fan at all. I don't think he is anything special. Having Broadway pitch against Kansas City just seems like a better option than throwing 2 more of our big pitchers on 3 days rest. Vazquez looked awful on short rest. There is also the after effect. Like I previously stated though, the best option would be starting Danks tomorrow on regular rest.

Broadway is Phil Hughes without the stuff. Using him in non-blowout situtions is asking for it. Lightening struck once when he got the 'W' against KC, it won't strike twice.

I hope the only reason Sox originally wanted to start Broadway in Richard's place yesterday was to fool the Yankees advance scouts. I am glad cooler heads prevailed.

JB98
09-18-2008, 10:42 PM
They won't adjust the rotation now. It's set.

KC: Buehrle-Bannister; Floyd-Davies; Danks-Duckworth
Min: Vazquez-Baker; Buehrle-Perkins; Floyd-Blackburn or Slowey
Cle: Danks-Lewis; Vazquez-Jackson; Buehrle-Lee
Det: Floyd-TBA

It's good the Sox are avoiding both Meche and Grienke. Of course, I wouldn't put it past these hitters to screw the pooch against Bannister, Davies and Duckworth. If they do, shame on them.

Sockinchisox
09-18-2008, 10:48 PM
Checking the pitching probables, Liriano is scheduled to pitch Sunday.

Liriano won't be pitching in the Sox series, the Twins announcers were discussing this on Tuesday and said under no circumstance will the Twins pitch Liriano on short rest.

Konerko05
09-18-2008, 10:49 PM
Broadway is Phil Hughes without the stuff. Using him in non-blowout situtions is asking for it. Lightening struck once when he got the 'W' against KC, it won't strike twice.

I hope the only reason Sox originally wanted to start Broadway in Richard's place yesterday was to fool the Yankees advance scouts. I am glad cooler heads prevailed.

I'm not going to defend Lance Broadway.

I am vigorously against throwing any more starters on 3 days rest. Floyd on 3 days rest may throw worse than Broadway. But if you just want to focus on the Broadway part of my argument then start Danks tomorrow.

TheOldRoman
09-18-2008, 10:58 PM
Liriano won't be pitching in the Sox series, the Twins announcers were discussing this on Tuesday and said under no circumstance will the Twins pitch Liriano on short rest.He would be pitching on extended rest, they will push him back 1 game (2 days) and have someone else pitch Sunday. Those games are a 2 game swing. I will be shocked if Liriano pitches on Sunday. And, if he does pitch on Sunday, and the Sox win the first 2 in Minnesota, I would expect to see him on 3 days rest Thursday. We shall see.

Tragg
09-18-2008, 11:03 PM
Situational hitting on this team lately has been dreadful. That's why I constantly reference 'killer instinct' it really does come down to how badly you want it and are you willing to change your approach accordingly.


.
Assuming that by situation hitting you mean making sure the runner on 3rd with less than 2 outs gets home; executing bunts when Oz calls for them.....It's been bad all year.
This team wins with long balls.
The last month, Guillen insists on asking these players to do things they don't do well - bunting, making intentional outs to the right side....forcing things like was done in a certain other year.
I'll take Broadway over the MacDougals and Ramirez' any day.

SBSoxFan
09-18-2008, 11:11 PM
I've always kind of believed in this line of thought, too.

Which is why Vegas has so much $.

Tragg
09-18-2008, 11:11 PM
--Greg Walker will "resign" if Sox fail to make postseason. Small consolation.


At some point Williams is going to have to reconcile the organizational emphasis on obp and patience, with his field staff's preference for aggressive swinging and not taking walks. Several coaches should be carefully evaluated if this team doesn't make the playoffs.

chisoxfanatic
09-18-2008, 11:15 PM
At some point Williams is going to have to reconcile the organizational emphasis on obp and patience, with his field staff's preference for aggressive swinging and not taking walks. Several coaches should be carefully evaluated if this team doesn't make the playoffs.
The Sox should hire Gary Crowton as their hitting coach.

sox1970
09-18-2008, 11:18 PM
Sox finished 45-45 outside the AL Central. Meh.

SBSoxFan
09-18-2008, 11:26 PM
Sox finished 45-45 outside the AL Central. Meh.

Nothing wrong with that. You get to the playoffs because you play well within your division, which they have.

sox1970
09-18-2008, 11:28 PM
Nothing wrong with that. You get to the playoffs because you play well within your division, which they have.

6-16 against Toronto, Boston, and New York ain't gonna cut it.

SBSoxFan
09-18-2008, 11:29 PM
I won't count on the offense waking up and responding to adversity (like the Twins' offense has the last three games), but Buehrle's start tomorrow is HUGE. We need to take at least 2 of 3 this weekend. I wasn't a fan of the 4 man rotation from the start. Vazquez dropped a bomb tonight. If Buehrle can't win tomorrow, I would push Danks up to Saturday, throw Richard or Broadway on Sunday, and have Gavin start Tuesday. That way, Gavin doesn't go on short rest, and we lead off against the Twins with our best pitcher. I don't know who the Twins will throw on Sunday, but I can guarantee that Liriano will be going against the Sox on Monday.

You mean the Twins who lost 2 of those last three games?

I don't think you can read anything into what happened tonight regarding pitching on short rest. Vazquez just doesn't pitch well against NY. I'm not sure 10 days vs. 3 days rest would have made any difference.

TheOldRoman
09-18-2008, 11:29 PM
Sox finished 45-45 outside the AL Central. Meh.Well, the Sox were 35-35 against the AL in 2005. Their total record outside of the central was 47-41, so that isn't much better. If a team cleans house in its division and stays close to .500 outside, it will likely win that division. The Sox are 1.5 ahead of the Twins in the ALC loss column (3 less division games playe, which will be made up this weekend). Obviously, the team with the best ALC record will win the division.

SBSoxFan
09-18-2008, 11:32 PM
6-16 against Toronto, Boston, and New York ain't gonna cut it.

Well it's over now, Boston's the only one they'll have to worry about. By the way, weren't the Sox 1-6 against Toronto and 2-5 against NY? That would make them 3-5 against Boston. So, if I had to chose one, I guess I'll take Boston. :D:

TheOldRoman
09-18-2008, 11:32 PM
You mean the Twins who lost 2 of those last three games?

I don't think you can read anything into what happened tonight regarding pitching on short rest. Vazquez just doesn't pitch well against NY. I'm not sure 10 days vs. 3 days rest would have made any difference.Yes, that Twins offense. They overcame a 7 run deficit on Tuesday, then scored 4 over 6.1 and almost hung a loss on Cliff Lee, then scored 11 with a 5 run 9th tonight. I am not saying they are a good team, but clearly, they have responded offensively. We can only hope their bullpen says as bad or somehow gets worse. They are going to score some runs these last 9 games.

Lip Man 1
09-18-2008, 11:38 PM
The Twins may have saved their season tonight. As far as the Sox we'll have to see how they respond against a white hot Royals team.

Ozzie said they were "horrible" tonight but honestly what did they do that we haven't seen a lot before? This week has been textbook:

* If they don't hit home runs, they can't score runs.

* Men in scoring position, they stay there.

* Men in scoring position with two out, they stay there.

At this point nothing can be done, you just hope they come around.

Lip

Adele_H
09-18-2008, 11:45 PM
Assuming that by situation hitting you mean making sure the runner on 3rd with less than 2 outs gets home; executing bunts when Oz calls for them......

No, I mean situational hitting in all its all-encompassing breadth, as it relates to champhionship teams.

You don't swing the same way with bases empty & no outs against Joel Zumaya as you do with runner 2nd, 3rd, 2 outs against Johan Santana. Unless you're a Sox hitter in cold weather, that is.

Adele_H
09-18-2008, 11:47 PM
At some point Williams is going to have to reconcile the organizational emphasis on obp and patience, with his field staff's preference for aggressive swinging and not taking walks. Several coaches should be carefully evaluated if this team doesn't make the playoffs.

Screw sitting back waiting for walks.

At this point, I'll settle for a good old fashioned 2-strike gork-shot to Right with 2 outs & runners at 2nd/3rd...

Adele_H
09-18-2008, 11:56 PM
Well, the Sox were 35-35 against the AL in 2005. Their total record outside of the central was 47-41, so that isn't much better

Huh? I don't think those numbers are correct.

2005 team was 58-29 on the Road, including 6-0 in the playoffs.

Yes, they struggled sometimes, too... But when push came the shove down the stretch, even the worst starter from 2005, Brandon MaCarthy, came into Boston & Texas and calmly sat their high-powered asses down. Certainly didn't melt like Vazquez did today.

Referencing 2008 team in the breath same as the magical 2005, at least right now... is sacrelige. Let them win somethinng worth a damn first.

IronFisk
09-18-2008, 11:57 PM
I'd rather catch the royals on a 7 game winning streak than a losing streak...they're due to lose.

Great - we're down to hoping blindly. This logic didn't stick against the Jays btw.

doublem23
09-19-2008, 12:41 AM
Huh? I don't think those numbers are correct.

2005 team was 58-29 on the Road, including 6-0 in the playoffs.

Yes, they struggled sometimes, too... But when push came the shove down the stretch, even the worst starter from 2005, Brandon MaCarthy, came into Boston & Texas and calmly sat their high-powered asses down. Certainly didn't melt like Vazquez did today.

Referencing 2008 team in the breath same as the magical 2005, at least right now... is sacrelige. Let them win somethinng worth a damn first.

:scratch:

No, the Sox really were 35-35 against the non-Central American League in 2005.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2005_standings.shtml

hawkjt
09-19-2008, 01:20 AM
Carlos Quentin had what? 18 game winning hits or something like that?
Many of those were in the first three months and were the difference in games like last nite. His loss has sucked the only life out of the offense now,it seems.
But,I will do the Hawk thing and purpose that just one play, one hit or defensive gem can turn a baseball team. I hope it comes tomorrow.
Remember Sizemore losing that flyball in the sun. I would rather be in the sox position than the twins if we start just playing better. Hitting better. Sox will have a shot at winning this no matter what happens in KC. And KC might just keep playing well against the twins next weekend also.
Winning tomorrow would be a big morale boost for everyone. I hate the AL East.

Frater Perdurabo
09-19-2008, 06:05 AM
Situational hitting on this team lately has been dreadful. That's why I constantly reference 'killer instinct' it really does come down to how badly you want it and are you willing to change your approach accordingly.

And that's what I mean when I say this team is gutless.

alohafri
09-19-2008, 07:30 AM
Is anyone else having second thoughts about Buehrle and Floyd pitching on 3 days rest the next two games?

Yeah, they should pitch on two days rest.

TomBradley72
09-19-2008, 08:34 AM
And that's what I mean when I say this team is gutless.

I don't think the word "gutless" comes within a million miles of describing this team. We're 1.5 games up/in 1st place after losing our starting LF/MVP candidate, our All Star 3rd baseman, our 8th inning set up man who as lights out before his injury, and one our starters.

Thome, AJ, Swisher and Alexei are all having HORRENDOUS Septembers as far as our offense goes, Dotel/Logan/Linebrink/Carrasco have all sucked out of th bullpen...that's why we're struggling so badly. It's our April/May offense without the April/May pitching.

cws05champ
09-19-2008, 08:41 AM
I know, that is what I mean. I have no doubt in my mind they will push him back.
I was watching the Twins game last night...there was no mention of them even discussing pushing back Liriano. Why would they push him back. They need every game just as badly as the Sox. It doesn't matter who they play, they need to win. With the HF advantage the Twins have at home, they could rely on that vs the Sox and KC to win 5 of 6.

I really hope that Ozzie pulling all the players early send a message to them and it sparks the offense the next week. If the bats can come alive for just 4 or 5 of the remaining games we're in IMO.

Adele_H
09-19-2008, 09:09 AM
And that's what I mean when I say this team is gutless.

I wouldn't call this team gutless, necessarily.

Complacent & selfish? Maybe. Chokerific? Definately.

Too much talent not to win the division and more. 120+ Million dollar payroll. Someone has to be held accountable; since KW/Ozzie are presumably safe, Greg Walker is the goat - whether fairly or not.


.

champagne030
09-19-2008, 09:13 AM
aka the 'Pucker Posse'.

They are swinging for milestones. Alexei wants 20 HR. Konerko wants 20 HR. Swisher wants 30 (even Walker admitted in interview). Jermaine Dye seemingly spent the entire month of September fantasizing about the magical 40 HR mark. And until his recent hot streak, Cabrera set his sights on 10 - no doubt at his agent's urging going into FA, it'd be nice to be able to say that "hey I can hit double digit HR, commit single-digit errors, steal 20 bags... I am all-around player, gimme big $$$"

The weather is getting colder all around the country, though. Maybe that's it.

.

I don't always agree with you, but this is dead on......throw an offspeed pitch on the outer half of the plate and every-single-batter-of-ours-is-meat. Turn and burn is the philosophy of our team.

oeo
09-19-2008, 09:32 AM
Great - we're down to hoping blindly. This logic didn't stick against the Jays btw.

And again, since when are the Royals the Blue Jays? The Blue Jays won all their games against teams above .500; that was hot. The Royals have beaten up on the Mariners; that is not.

ms620
09-19-2008, 09:38 AM
All those who say that the sox are gutless, or dont have a killer instinct, or are not trying to do whatever it takes to win...are clueless. And in my opinion, those who think that have never played a sport competitively. When you win, it looks like you want to be there, you are doing what it takes to win, you have that killer instinct. When you lose, and are struggling, it looks like the opposite. PLayers look like they are just coasting through the games, that they dont want to be there, that they are swinging for the fences. Just b/c they dont get a bunt down, or dont get a guy in from 3rd with less than 1 out, does not mean they arent trying, or they are gutless. Or that that dont have a killer instinct. Or that they dont want to change their approach to help the team. Every one of those players on teh sox who have failed in key spot, whether that is getting a guy over, or getting him in, would do whatever it takes to get the job done. Sometimes they get it done. Sometimes they dont. Sometimes it is b/c they are not good enough. Other times they are good enough, but are struggling at the moment, or just didnt get it done that time. I am sick of people saying that the Sox dont care, or they dont have the killer instict. WInning and losing changes everthing, even how they are perceived by their own fan base. Everyone in that locker room does not want to waste all the hard work they have put in, and not make the playoffs. JD looks tired now, and has not hit a home run in a long time. But thats not b.c he is gutless, or only cares about his personal milestones.

Chicken Dinner
09-19-2008, 09:45 AM
This team is playing like a AAA team. :o:

oeo
09-19-2008, 09:53 AM
At some point Williams is going to have to reconcile the organizational emphasis on obp and patience, with his field staff's preference for aggressive swinging and not taking walks. Several coaches should be carefully evaluated if this team doesn't make the playoffs.

He's already started to do that. That's why he acquired Quentin and Swisher (can even put Cabrera in there...while it's not high, it's better than what we've had in the past).

This team has improved a ton on plate patience over the last year.

jabrch
09-19-2008, 09:54 AM
The douchebaggery after losses is just insane.

jennk44
09-19-2008, 10:03 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZVWSGtI7GE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD205SKqlrI

Adele_H
09-19-2008, 10:03 AM
The pointless kneejerk uber-douchebaggery is even insaner.

palehozenychicty
09-19-2008, 10:03 AM
The douchebaggery after losses is just insane.


Seriously. They didn't play very well here this week, and left arguably two games on the table. But what can you do? Just get a win tonight.

kittle42
09-19-2008, 10:29 AM
All those who say that the sox are gutless, or dont have a killer instinct, or are not trying to do whatever it takes to win...are clueless. And in my opinion, those who think that have never played a sport competitively. When you win, it looks like you want to be there, you are doing what it takes to win, you have that killer instinct. When you lose, and are struggling, it looks like the opposite. PLayers look like they are just coasting through the games, that they dont want to be there, that they are swinging for the fences. Just b/c they dont get a bunt down, or dont get a guy in from 3rd with less than 1 out, does not mean they arent trying, or they are gutless. Or that that dont have a killer instinct. Or that they dont want to change their approach to help the team. Every one of those players on teh sox who have failed in key spot, whether that is getting a guy over, or getting him in, would do whatever it takes to get the job done. Sometimes they get it done. Sometimes they dont. Sometimes it is b/c they are not good enough. Other times they are good enough, but are struggling at the moment, or just didnt get it done that time. I am sick of people saying that the Sox dont care, or they dont have the killer instict. WInning and losing changes everthing, even how they are perceived by their own fan base. Everyone in that locker room does not want to waste all the hard work they have put in, and not make the playoffs. JD looks tired now, and has not hit a home run in a long time. But thats not b.c he is gutless, or only cares about his personal milestones.

I agree. "Gutless," "killer instinct," and all that other slop is radio talk show bull****.

kittle42
09-19-2008, 10:31 AM
The douchebaggery after losses is just insane.

The pointless kneejerk uber-douchebaggery is even insaner.

People are stupid and reactionary. We've all been guilty of it sometime, somewhere.

DumpJerry
09-19-2008, 10:54 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZVWSGtI7GE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD205SKqlrI
Ummm....what is up with that second one? A tribute before the season is over? A tribute with mostly depressed-looking players? A tribute to the 2008 White Sox with scenes from 2006?

guillensdisciple
09-19-2008, 11:42 AM
I wouldn't call the White Sox gutless, they are better then that. What I will say is that the white sox haven't matched up well against the AL East. I think that is what has dropped their road record dramatically. If you look at it, the sox have played extremely well against the AL West on the road. I remember splitting a series with the Angels, beating the mariners, beating the athletics, and losing to the rangers. Not that bad on the road against the west.

In the central the white sox have done well against mostly every team on the road except we have had a weird inability to step on each team's respective throats when we had a chance. The only teams that have given us trouble on the road from our division (if you take away our September funk) have been the Twins and the royals (slightly).

If you look at the sox against the AL east it is ugly with the only team with even a slight losing record against the sox being the orioles. Everyone else has dominated the Sox pretty well. This is what worries me it might just be a very quick october for the sox this year.


One more thing I forgot to mention, the White Sox team dynamic had changed in '06 when the Sox acquired Jim Thome. The guy is a home run hitter and it felt weird that the sox were acquiring power after they had won a championship with pitching and clutch hitting (something big Jim was not known for). So in '05 when I saw the team smash the ball I understood that there would be problems. Just look at the Florida Marlins of this year. Four infielders who can crush the ball but they are streaky, very streaky, and now fighting for their playoff lives.

I don't want to blame big Jim for the sox decline since '05 but it is odd to see a team change philosophy so quickly. I agree that the guy is the best DH in the AL next to David Ortiz but David Ortiz is different; that guy can do anything against anybody. To me Jim Thome was pursued in greed by the sox, we thought that we could only get better so we tried to become more powerful by adding a very big name. It didn't help; it made us worse.

IronFisk
09-19-2008, 12:17 PM
And again, since when are the Royals the Blue Jays? The Blue Jays won all their games against teams above .500; that was hot. The Royals have beaten up on the Mariners; that is not.

..and neither are WE!

Tragg
09-19-2008, 12:18 PM
He's already started to do that. That's why he acquired Quentin and Swisher (can even put Cabrera in there...while it's not high, it's better than what we've had in the past).

This team has improved a ton on plate patience over the last year. True. And that's Ken Williams. Outside acquisitions. That is not Guillen or these coaches. REmember who Ozzie wanted starting and who he wanted in AAA? That would be Owens starting and Quentin in AAA.

It's not a matter of walking necessarily (nobody wants Quentin walking if he has pitches to hit) - it's putting pressure on the opposing pitchers by making them work. And I still say Ramirez would be a superstar if he would stop swinging at balls in the dirt and over his head.

Adele_H
09-19-2008, 12:37 PM
I agree. "Gutless," "killer instinct," and all that other slop is radio talk show bull****.

Hey, don't take my word for it.

[distilled from recent interviews]


-Orlando Cabrera: a lot of talent but no killer instinct

-Jermaine Dye: no intensity

-Ozzie Guillen: underachieving; need to snap out of it


But I guess kittle42 & ms620 know better than major league veterans who've played the game at times at an all-star level, know themselves.

JB98
09-19-2008, 12:46 PM
I was watching the Twins game last night...there was no mention of them even discussing pushing back Liriano. Why would they push him back. They need every game just as badly as the Sox. It doesn't matter who they play, they need to win. With the HF advantage the Twins have at home, they could rely on that vs the Sox and KC to win 5 of 6.

I really hope that Ozzie pulling all the players early send a message to them and it sparks the offense the next week. If the bats can come alive for just 4 or 5 of the remaining games we're in IMO.

Liriano got his ass kicked by the Indians earlier this week. He didn't make it out of the third inning, IIRC. Liriano is not Santana, not even close. Remember, the Twins left him to rot in AAA for most of the season. I'm not convinced Gardenhire thinks Liriano is his best option against the White Sox. He has other pitchers who are throwing the ball better right now.

2906
09-19-2008, 12:48 PM
REmember who Ozzie wanted starting and who he wanted in AAA? That would be Owens starting and Quentin in AAA.


It needs to be stated in context.

There was some serious doubt Quentin would be healthy enough to start the season. He was basically shut down for a few days in spring training due to the recuperative process from the shoulder surgery.

Guillen wanted healthy guys who could perform. Owens got hurt, Quentin got healthy, it went from there.

And I always hear Guillen talking about wanting good at bats. He's been badgering Williams for more on base guys for the last few years now.

guillensdisciple
09-19-2008, 12:59 PM
It needs to be stated in context.

There was some serious doubt Quentin would be healthy enough to start the season. He was basically shut down for a few days in spring training due to the recuperative process from the shoulder surgery.

Guillen wanted healthy guys who could perform. Owens got hurt, Quentin got healthy, it went from there.

And I always hear Guillen talking about wanting good at bats. He's been badgering Williams for more on base guys for the last few years now.
Just read what I wrote a few posts back. You are right and I believe the teams dynamic will change completely after this season. Orlando Hudson and Chone Figgins might be making their way over here.

Paulwny
09-19-2008, 01:06 PM
And I always hear Guillen talking about wanting good at bats. He's been badgering Williams for more on base guys for the last few years now.

Yep, we've been hearing this for awhile. Do we have a manager with a "grinder philosophy" and a GM with a " long ball" philosophy ?

Lip Man 1
09-19-2008, 01:09 PM
It does seem like a disconnect between the two doesn't it?

Lip

ms620
09-19-2008, 01:20 PM
Hey, don't take my word for it.

[distilled from recent interviews]


-Orlando Cabrera: a lot of talent but no killer instinct

-Jermaine Dye: no intensity

-Ozzie Guillen: underachieving; need to snap out of it


But I guess kittle42 & ms620 know better than major league veterans who've played the game at times at an all-star level, know themselves.

JD no intensity? He sure had intensity when he knocked in the game winnig run in the WS. How about when he hit a game tying home run off of Joe Nathan......and Paplebon. Give me a break with that ****. I dont care who said it in an interview.

jennk44
09-19-2008, 01:54 PM
Ummm....what is up with that second one? A tribute before the season is over? A tribute with mostly depressed-looking players? A tribute to the 2008 White Sox with scenes from 2006?


Harsh!:whiner:
Your the only one that took it that way! The only way I could sum it up for you is by one of the comments I received - "Great job! You really captured the emotional rollercoaster ride that the Sox players & Ozzie go through during the long 162 game season."
The only pics I really saw that was from 06 was of Crede, maybe of Ozzie, too. It's not that easy to get good pics online without Copyright protection, I had to use what I had, sorry. It's a tribute of what they go through in the season, not of them being depressed. I will take out the 2008 part!

kittle42
09-19-2008, 01:55 PM
Hey, don't take my word for it.

[distilled from recent interviews]


-Orlando Cabrera: a lot of talent but no killer instinct

-Jermaine Dye: no intensity

-Ozzie Guillen: underachieving; need to snap out of it


But I guess kittle42 & ms620 know better than major league veterans who've played the game at times at an all-star level, know themselves.

It's still bull****. That's interviewing 101 for athletes - it has just as much weight as "take it one game at a time." It's meaningless.

Adele_H
09-19-2008, 02:23 PM
It's still bull****. That's interviewing 101 for athletes - it has just as much weight as "take it one game at a time." It's meaningless.

Of course it's meaningless bull. It doesn't agree with/fit into your rigid worldview, afterall.

Ozzie's comment I can maybe dismiss along the "self-serving manager trying to cover his butt" 101 lines... But Cabrera & Dye comments are fairly specific & timely; whether real or perceived, may be reflective of the team's psychological state.

Either way, this much is clear: this team has too much talent not to win at least something. This isn't even the case of 2006 when Detroit & Minnesota going bunkers and taking the division from us by force. No, the 2008 squad is beating itself more than opponents are beating them. The 2 meatball-lobbing Yankee rookies this past series, included.

Adele_H
09-19-2008, 02:27 PM
JD no intensity? He sure had intensity when he knocked in the game winnig run in the WS. How about when he hit a game tying home run off of Joe Nathan......and Paplebon. Give me a break with that ****. I dont care who said it in an interview.

What's with the reading comprehension site-wide lately? Dye said it himself, apparently, referring to the perceived current state of the team. Not 2005... which is ancient history either way you look at it anyway.

Konerko05
09-19-2008, 02:42 PM
The offense has reverted back to the first two months of the season. It's frustrating to watching. Lack of intensity and focus have to play some factor.

Cabrera, who made the lack of intensity comment, seems to be the only one actually playing with intensity. But then again, I'm just watching the games on tv. Slumping hitters are generally going to look like they are playing without intensity. On the flip side, it's crunch time and most of the players can't figure out a way to battle through. They are a superior team that can not put the Twins away.

The starters are all looking strong. I don't believe intensity is a problem for them. They are stepping up when they need to.

Bullpen is just beaten up and bad.

Tragg
09-19-2008, 05:54 PM
It needs to be stated in context.

There was some serious doubt Quentin would be healthy enough to start the season. He was basically shut down for a few days in spring training due to the recuperative process from the shoulder surgery.

Guillen wanted healthy guys who could perform. Owens got hurt, Quentin got healthy, it went from there.

And I always hear Guillen talking about wanting good at bats. He's been badgering Williams for more on base guys for the last few years now. if Guillen wanted on base guys, he would not have fallen in love with Darin Erstad De Wayne Wise or Jerry Owens. He never would have demoted Iguchi down in the order to make room for Erstad in 07. In 2007, He sent Sweeney (good obp) away after 2 weeks, but left Owens (who has a poor obp and is a poor outfielder) unabated in cf and at leadoff for the last 6-8 weeks of the season. He loves DeWayne Wise and his .250 lifetime OBP and keeps him in the 2 hole. Anderson is 3 times the player Wise is, but maybe plays once a week. Ozzie's talk about obp is pure lip-service. What Guillen wants are players who can bunt and hit ground balls the proper side of the infield to move that runner up; and speed. So he forces it.
At the end of spring training, Quentin was healthy. There's no context to explain Quentin being 3rd team.