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View Full Version : Joe Nathan - Hurt or just struggling?


jabrch
09-17-2008, 01:54 PM
Since 8/25, 6 2/3 IP, 7R allowed (4 ER), 7H, 4BB, 1S, 3BS and 2 L...

TDog
09-17-2008, 01:59 PM
Since 8/25, 6 2/3 IP, 7R allowed (4 ER), 7H, 4BB, 1S, 3BS and 2 L...

There is no reason to believe he is hurt.

Foulke You
09-17-2008, 02:07 PM
I think the other relief pitchers struggles caused Gardenhire to overuse Nathan in August and September. There were several times Gardenhire went to Nathan in the 8th or pitched him 2 innings in an extra inning contest because he had nobody else who could get outs. I think the extra use is catching up with Nathan now. Just my .02. It will be interesting to see if our resident Twin fans, TwinKess or MaGaga have a different take on it.

champagne030
09-17-2008, 02:17 PM
I think the other relief pitchers struggles caused Gardenhire to overuse Nathan in August and September. There were several times Gardenhire went to Nathan in the 8th or pitched him 2 innings in an extra inning contest because he had nobody else who could get outs. I think the extra use is catching up with Nathan now. Just my .02. It will be interesting to see if our resident Twin fans, TwinKess or MaGaga have a different take on it.

He's only pitched more than one inning 3 times this season and two of those were to get 4 outs. The only extended outing he had was on 9/3 when it took him 45 pitches to go 2 innings.

Adele_H
09-17-2008, 03:29 PM
Can't really say as I haven't seen Nathan pitch enough this year.

Let's remember, Nathan will be 34 in a month or something like that. Freaks of nature like Rivera aside, without PED and greenies, that's nearing the age where a pitcher's stuff starts to lose a little something, in terms of velocity and even late bite. Some pitchers adjust, some can't. Nathan relies too much on his fastball, so we'll see.

It could also be Brad Lidge effect of blowing a few saves after being untouchable. He's losing his mystic, whatever that means. I am sure it doesn't help Nathan that he's also arguably under the most amount of pressure he's been in a while since nobody else in the bullpen is stepping up, and the team cannot afford his blown saves because of their position in the standings. Arguably for the first time, even the normally very good Twins defense is letting him down these days.

Finally, the demise of Nathan has been exaggerated. Before his 3-run HR to Martinez yesterday, his ERA was around 1.00. ONE! He's still a good-to-very-good closer any way you look at it.

oeo
09-17-2008, 03:31 PM
I'm sure he's fine, but as mentioned, he's not young. I still think signing him to an extension was stupid. I think in the end it will look like Nathan made highway robbery on the Twins.

Nellie_Fox
09-17-2008, 04:38 PM
Before his 3-run HR to Martinez yesterday, his ERA was around 1.00. ONE! He's still a good-to-very-good closer any way you look at it.But he's blown saves and/or taken the loss four times in his last five or six appearances. I watch more Twins games than most of you, and he hasn't been the same at all this month. All of the Twins fans I work with are wondering if he has some nagging injury.

Rockabilly
09-17-2008, 04:41 PM
the Twins should just let Nathan sit for the rest of the year :)

Foulke You
09-17-2008, 04:44 PM
He's only pitched more than one inning 3 times this season and two of those were to get 4 outs. The only extended outing he had was on 9/3 when it took him 45 pitches to go 2 innings.
Interesting. I thought I had seen him in more 2 inning outings than that. I think half the battle is confidence with a closer. If a closer starts to lose it a la Brad Lidge, it can be tough to find it again for a while. Here is hoping that Nathan continues his struggles.:gulp:

Iwritecode
09-17-2008, 04:45 PM
the Twins should just let Nathan sit for the rest of the year :)

As long as he keeps blowing saves and/or losing games, they can keep trotting him out there as long as they want.

Now if he just sits on the bench because of lack of save opportunities because they are losing, I'm fine with that too.

TDog
09-17-2008, 05:49 PM
But he's blown saves and/or taken the loss four times in his last five or six appearances. I watch more Twins games than most of you, and he hasn't been the same at all this month. All of the Twins fans I work with are wondering if he has some nagging injury.

The blown save in Oakland where he gave up two unearned runs stands as another example of why ERAs can be deceptive. Nathan allowed two runners to reach before Ryan Sweeney's sacrifice attempt that ended up in the A's bullpen, allowing two runs to score. The runs were unearned because no runs would have scored had Nathan not thrown the ball away (or the thirdbaseman had not let the ball get past him while going back to cover the base -- I saw the play and the error could have gone on the thirdbaseman). The reason the runs wouldn't have scored was because the game ended. Of course, had the play been made, the game wouldn't have ended. The A's would have had only one out with two on after two A's reached in the inning and one conceded an out. Nathan wasn't sharp that night. He wasn't sharp against Toronto in a blown save. In his Aug. 27 save against the Mariners, he looked strong. That followed a blown save where an error set up the tying run in an eventual Twins loss.

The Twins really haven't been using him much. I don't think his problems have been through overwork. I can understand why Twins fans believe their closer who has been automatic might have health problems. Every closer blows saves sometimes. I think Nathan is just a victim of the Twins playing bad baseball.

doublem23
09-17-2008, 05:56 PM
I'm sure he's fine, but as mentioned, he's not young. I still think signing him to an extension was stupid. I think in the end it will look like Nathan made highway robbery on the Twins.

For an organzation that is generally very smart/frugal with its cash, the Nathan deal looks like it might be a rare mistake, especially considering what they might have gotten for him on the trade market.

cws05champ
09-17-2008, 10:49 PM
I don't care whether he is hurt or just struggling. I just like it!