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WhiteSoxAl
09-17-2008, 10:18 AM
The decision not to trade Uribe has turned out to be one of the best moves or non-moves of the year. He handles the glove at 3rd as good or better than anyone in the league and has a cannon for a arm. He still swings at pitches out of the zone and can go into prolonged slumps but he can also get hot and come up with some great clutch hits. Just imagine where the Sox might be if they had to rely on Josh Fields as their 3rd basemen with the loss of Crede. He can also play short or 2nd I for one do not want to hear any more trade rumors concerning Uribe. He is just too damn valuable.

Cangelosi CF
09-17-2008, 10:20 AM
The decision not to trade Uribe has turned out to be one of the best moves or non-moves of the year. He handles the glove at 3rd as good or better than anyone in the league and has a cannon for a arm. He still swings at pitches out of the zone and can go into prolonged slumps but he can also get hot and come up with some great clutch hits. Just imagine where the Sox might be if they had to rely on Josh Fields as their 3rd basemen with the loss of Crede. He can also play short or 2nd I for one do not want to hear any more trade rumors concerning Uribe. He is just too damn valuable.
Whatever he lacks in hitting he makes up for and then some with the leather. Is he signed through next year? If Cabrera is allowed to leave via free agency, then you can put him at SS. His ability to play three infield positions and be an excellent fielder at all of them is highly important.

asindc
09-17-2008, 10:24 AM
Yet another example of KW just being damn lucky. With Crede's balky back and Fields not knowing how to hit a breaking pitch along with questionable D, I figured Uribe would have to see valuable time before all was said and done. I didn't think he would have to play this much, but I'm guessing Minny, TB, and Boston all wish they had a utility player this good.

slavko
09-17-2008, 10:40 AM
Second best move of year:Losing out on Fukudome.

PaleHoser
09-17-2008, 10:46 AM
I thought releasing Ozuna rather than Uribe was the wrong move. Happy to say I was wrong, which might be why I'm not an MLB GM.

Let's hope he keeps picking it and hitting like this for another month.

kevingrt
09-17-2008, 10:57 AM
Completely agree with the thread title. If you would have told 95% of Sox fans last year that Juan Uribe would be starting in September 2008 on the White Sox, Sox fans would have said no way he sucks. He was the biggest goat at the end of last year. Everyone hated him. It was nuts how much people hated him too. But the second half of this year he has come up extremely huge. Hopefully he can keep it up and help get us to the playoffs. Then have some playoff magic that he did in 2005.

thomas35forever
09-17-2008, 11:01 AM
During the Dodgers series, I started a thread that the Sox should keep Wise and cut Uribe. As it turns out, I'm glad we kept both.

Lundind1
09-17-2008, 11:03 AM
I am glad that he didn't go at this point now. Where would the Sox be right now. We would not be relying on Fields either. He is also experiencing some injury issues this year.

I thought that I'd never say this but, all hail mighty Uribe!!!!:D:

D. TODD
09-17-2008, 11:05 AM
I thought releasing Ozuna rather than Uribe was the wrong move. Happy to say I was wrong, which might be why I'm not an MLB GM.

Let's hope he keeps picking it and hitting like this for another month.I think the majority of Sox fans felt the same, hell most hated signing him for the one year contract in the off season. Many also disliked re-signing Dye last year, but ole Kenny did his job well by not listening to the fans.

guillensdisciple
09-17-2008, 11:39 AM
Kenny Williams is the most unrecognized GM in the majors. First off the guy LOVES the White Sox, you can tell during interviews just how passionate he is about this team and how he is constantly trying to find way to make this team better. Uribe in my mind is the BEST defensive player in the major leagues. The guy has a pitchers arm, great feel for the ground, and great reads on all ground balls. Some of the plays he makes would be disasters waiting to happen for other players but Uribe makes it look like cake. I don't understand how Uribe hasn't won a gold glove. I believe it to be because he played at short and had to range more which would ultimately create errors. Third is a more stable position so he can knock down the harder ground balls.

As a hitter Uribe has had constant problems with his swing that Cooper has tried to fix. Last year there was always a switch in his batting motion or batting stance every two months. They never found Uribe's swing. This year he has kept one stance and it seems to be working for him. As a hitter there is no better feeling to find consistency in the batters box; if you are constantly fixing or changing some problem there will always be a delay before you can get to full form.

Uribe is also a hell of a clubhouse personality and, if you were to ask, is probably liked by everyone in the clubhouse.

I am sure no one will forget that catch he made in the world series; but that was just a testament to what Uribe can do. He is a defensive great. One of the few players that get playing time for being good on the field and not with the bat.

Jenks4Prez
09-17-2008, 11:43 AM
Its about time my boy You-Reebs gets some props on this board. I hope all of the Uribe haters are enjoying their crow these days.

Rocky Soprano
09-17-2008, 11:45 AM
I still don't want him as our starting 3B next year.

hawkjt
09-17-2008, 11:49 AM
As a third baseman, Uribe is hitting .316 this year. More than acceptable..that would lead the team in hitting over a whole season.
Unbelievable arm...good hands, good range...decent power.
Yea, thats what a playoff team 3rd baseman should look like.

I love Joe, but Juan has outplayed him outside of April(when Joe was healthy and hitting the tar outta the ball).

Thanks Juan...you might have saved this season:D:

guillensdisciple
09-17-2008, 11:50 AM
I still don't want him as our starting 3B next year.

I would be glad to have him at third base next year, what would be your option? If the sox get Hudson like the reports state then who are we going to play at third base. There are no significant free agent third basemen. People want Chone Figgins, but does anyone know just how much the sox would lose to get him?

Answer that without trouble and you win, otherwise I think Uribe just might be the best option at third next year.

Rocky Soprano
09-17-2008, 11:56 AM
I would be glad to have him at third base next year, what would be your option? If the sox get Hudson like the reports state then who are we going to play at third base. There are no significant free agent third basemen. People want Chone Figgins, but does anyone know just how much the sox would lose to get him?

Answer that without trouble and you win, otherwise I think Uribe just might be the best option at third next year.

That's the thing, there are no big names that will be available to play 3rd.
I love the job Uribe has been doing, but who's to say he can keep it up for an entire year. I do love his glove.

Lundind1
09-17-2008, 11:59 AM
Chone Figgins would be too expensive to acquire and how long would we be able to keep him.

tonyho7476
09-17-2008, 12:03 PM
That's the thing, there are no big names that will be available to play 3rd.
I love the job Uribe has been doing, but who's to say he can keep it up for an entire year. I do love his glove.

I wouldn't mind seeing us sign Casey Blake and keep Juan around as super-sub.

areilly
09-17-2008, 12:03 PM
Completely agree with the thread title. If you would have told 95% of Sox fans last year that Juan Uribe would be starting in September 2008 on the White Sox, Sox fans would have said no way he sucks. He was the biggest goat at the end of last year.

If you would have told me Uribe was not only starting but also the starting 3B, I would have said "Wow, something must have gone really wrong." And in a world where the backup CF is now starting at second, the shortstop-turned-second baseman is playing third, the other backup CF is playing left, the original starting CF is on the bench in favor of a HOFer on the decline, there are no true third basement left and the LF-by-default-turned-MVP is out indefinitely with an injury, it's hard to argue any of this is working out as expected.

[This is the part where someone tries to play it cool by saying "KW's plan was to get to the playoffs," as though the grand master plan included nothing actually going as intended.]

For all that he's done lately, Uribe is still an overall liability more often than an overall asset where this team's construction is concerned. And for the record, not trading Uribe wasn't KW's decision, but rather the decision of the 29 other GMs who wouldn't trade for him when the Sox actively tried to unload him. One hot streak does not a superstar make.

jabrch
09-17-2008, 12:25 PM
I can think of about a dozen "best moves of the year"... This surely is one - because all of the experts were pushing to dump Uribe for a bag of balls. And Williams and Guillen clearly knew better.

Rocky Soprano
09-17-2008, 12:36 PM
For all that he's done lately, Uribe is still an overall liability more often than an overall asset where this team's construction is concerned. And for the record, not trading Uribe wasn't KW's decision, but rather the decision of the 29 other GMs who wouldn't trade for him when the Sox actively tried to unload him. One hot streak does not a superstar make.

Very well said. Kenny TRIED to get rid of Uribe but there were no takers, thats why he is still on the team. It's more luck than anything else.

Jenks4Prez
09-17-2008, 12:43 PM
If you would have told me Uribe was not only starting but also the starting 3B, I would have said "Wow, something must have gone really wrong." And in a world where the backup CF is now starting at second, the shortstop-turned-second baseman is playing third, the other backup CF is playing left, the original starting CF is on the bench in favor of a HOFer on the decline, there are no true third basement left and the LF-by-default-turned-MVP is out indefinitely with an injury, it's hard to argue any of this is working out as expected.

[This is the part where someone tries to play it cool by saying "KW's plan was to get to the playoffs," as though the grand master plan included nothing actually going as intended.]

For all that he's done lately, Uribe is still an overall liability more often than an overall asset where this team's construction is concerned. And for the record, not trading Uribe wasn't KW's decision, but rather the decision of the 29 other GMs who wouldn't trade for him when the Sox actively tried to unload him. One hot streak does not a superstar make.

Looks like we have a Kenny Hater in the house. Hilarious! Our fans criticize him even when he wins. We don't deserve him and if I were him I'd tell us all to go F&*k off and leave this city.

Lip Man 1
09-17-2008, 12:43 PM
Lundini / Discipline:

If from what I've been told is true, getting Figgins might be cheaper than at first thought.

I've been told he is not liked at all by his teammates or the Angels organization and that his only "supporter" left is Scioscia.

If true, they may wish to move him for whatever they can get.

Lip

Hokiesox
09-17-2008, 12:44 PM
If you would have told me Uribe was not only starting but also the starting 3B, I would have said "Wow, something must have gone really wrong." And in a world where the backup CF is now starting at second, the shortstop-turned-second baseman is playing third, the other backup CF is playing left, the original starting CF is on the bench in favor of a HOFer on the decline, there are no true third basement left and the LF-by-default-turned-MVP is out indefinitely with an injury, it's hard to argue any of this is working out as expected.


We do have quite a team of baseball players. I love it. Nobody is really a specialist, everyone can play different positions (Dye can stay where he is, and I'm excluding our catchers). Hopefully it wins the division and works well into October.

No, it's not working as intended, but KW was smart enough to put together backup plans in case of injury. Smart guy, I say.

Foulke You
09-17-2008, 12:48 PM
For all that he's done lately, Uribe is still an overall liability more often than an overall asset where this team's construction is concerned. And for the record, not trading Uribe wasn't KW's decision, but rather the decision of the 29 other GMs who wouldn't trade for him when the Sox actively tried to unload him. One hot streak does not a superstar make.
You make some good points here. Another observation about Uribe is that he is a very good player when he is interested and has something to prove. I think what happened to Juan in 2006 and 2007 was that he got fat, lazy, and complacent with his position on the White Sox. Juan only seemed interested in trying to hit HRs and his defense went south last year. After being demoted to part time status in '08, I think Juan concentrated and gave more effort when he did get to play. Now that Juan has something to play for (next year's contract for starters) he is playing up to his potential. I really like the play we're getting out of him on offense and defense but I'm not sure if I trust him enough yet to hand over the keys to the full time starting 3B position next year. I'd consider bringing him back on a 1 year deal but I'm not sure I'd go any further than that with him. Our lack of depth at 3B puts Juan in a very good negotiating position. I think a lot will depend on if the Sox land Chone Figgins or not in free agency. If Figgins re-ups with the Angels or somewhere else, I can see the Sox bringing back Juan to be a stop gap 3B to see if Fields or another young player develops.

jabrch
09-17-2008, 12:56 PM
Very well said. Kenny TRIED to get rid of Uribe but there were no takers,

At what price?

He wasn't giving him away - otherwise there would have been a line.

Soxfanspcu11
09-17-2008, 01:13 PM
The decision not to trade Uribe has turned out to be one of the best moves or non-moves of the year. He handles the glove at 3rd as good or better than anyone in the league and has a cannon for a arm. He still swings at pitches out of the zone and can go into prolonged slumps but he can also get hot and come up with some great clutch hits. Just imagine where the Sox might be if they had to rely on Josh Fields as their 3rd basemen with the loss of Crede. He can also play short or 2nd I for one do not want to hear any more trade rumors concerning Uribe. He is just too damn valuable.


The thought of Josh Fields as our everyday 3rd baseman makes Me want to vomit in terror. :o:

infohawk
09-17-2008, 01:16 PM
I agree with the thread title. I'm embarrassed to admit that I was part of the "run him out of town on a rail" bandwagon. Boy, did I get that one wrong!:redface:

Tragg
09-17-2008, 01:20 PM
The decision not to trade Uribe has turned out to be one of the best moves or non-moves of the year. He handles the glove at 3rd as good
Where do yall get that? I admit I haven't seen seen him play like yall have, but his range at SS was never proflific; and yesterday Crede would have had Jeter's hit with his eyes closed....it went 2 feet to Uribe's right and he couldn't get to it. I think he has a quick release on his throws, although not a cannon arm.

I never had a problem with him at SS; but he appeared to lag-ass it last year as did others.

Optipessimism
09-17-2008, 01:21 PM
If you would have told me Uribe was not only starting but also the starting 3B, I would have said "Wow, something must have gone really wrong." And in a world where the backup CF is now starting at second, the shortstop-turned-second baseman is playing third, the other backup CF is playing left, the original starting CF is on the bench in favor of a HOFer on the decline, there are no true third basement left and the LF-by-default-turned-MVP is out indefinitely with an injury, it's hard to argue any of this is working out as expected.

[This is the part where someone tries to play it cool by saying "KW's plan was to get to the playoffs," as though the grand master plan included nothing actually going as intended.]

For all that he's done lately, Uribe is still an overall liability more often than an overall asset where this team's construction is concerned. And for the record, not trading Uribe wasn't KW's decision, but rather the decision of the 29 other GMs who wouldn't trade for him when the Sox actively tried to unload him. One hot streak does not a superstar make.

What does this have to do with anything at all? Kenny filled his roster with versatile players. Alexei can play 3 IF positions and 3 OF positions, Swisher 1B and OF, Uribe 3 IF positions, etc. There is a reason for wanting players with some versatility.

You go ahead and name one damn season where things have worked out even remotely close to what was expected or planned. Even in 2005 we lost Frank for most of the year and had to go with Everett. Rowand fell off from the previous year, our opening day closer was DFA'd, Hermanson got hurt, etcetera and that is the closest we have been to a year going "as planned" for at least the last decade, if not much longer.

Uribe is "an overall liability more often than an overall asset where this team's construction is concerned?" Did you actually think before you wrote that? He's one of only two infielders we have healthy that are capable of playing a Major League 3B in a pennant race, with the other playing second base, and you think because of the construction of this team that he's a freaking liability?

Because of the construction of this team we have virtually ZERO infield depth right now. We have Fields (going in for surgery), Getz (done for the year), Bourgeois (not eligible for the playoff roster), Crede (supposedly has played his last game with the Sox), and that is it. Nothing else. Saying Juan is anything less than a godsend at this point is ridiculous, no matter how much Sox fans including myself have dogged him in the past.

The other thing to keep in mind is that losing strongly magnifies every single fault of every single member of the organization. Juan's bat didn't look so bad in 2005, in fact no one really cared, and Juan's bat doesn't matter now either since we're heading towards the playoffs. The Juan hate didn't completely take over until Juan started putting up horrible at-bats in the middle of a 90-loss season. The fans were sick to death of players who couldn't hit at that point, and rightfully so. Had we played for anything last year he wouldn't have been called out every five minutes and the large majority of that hate wouldn't have carried over to this season.

Soxfanspcu11
09-17-2008, 01:29 PM
As a hitter Uribe has had constant problems with his swing that Cooper has tried to fix.

That could be the problem right there.

Damn. I knew that Walker didn't really do much but now Cooper has to be the hitting coach as well?

Geez, someone does not deserve their paycheck. :D:

Jim Shorts
09-17-2008, 01:31 PM
kw was smart enough to put together backup plans in case of injury. Smart guy, i say.

b i n g o

2906
09-17-2008, 01:39 PM
If you would have told me Uribe was not only starting but also the starting 3B, I would have said "Wow, something must have gone really wrong." And in a world where the backup CF is now starting at second, the shortstop-turned-second baseman is playing third, the other backup CF is playing left, the original starting CF is on the bench in favor of a HOFer on the decline, there are no true third basement left and the LF-by-default-turned-MVP is out indefinitely with an injury, it's hard to argue any of this is working out as expected.

[This is the part where someone tries to play it cool by saying "KW's plan was to get to the playoffs," as though the grand master plan included nothing actually going as intended.]

For all that he's done lately, Uribe is still an overall liability more often than an overall asset where this team's construction is concerned. And for the record, not trading Uribe wasn't KW's decision, but rather the decision of the 29 other GMs who wouldn't trade for him when the Sox actively tried to unload him. One hot streak does not a superstar make.

That's one way to look at it, and you do have a point.

The other way to look at it is this. Yes, they tried to shop him and even put him on waivers to gauge interest. But they weren't going to give him away for nothing. So credit to them for not just tossing Uribe onto the garbage heap like they did with Pablo.

This GM and manager like guys who can play multiple positions so they can play matchups and have some depth. In general, it's a good strategy. It's proactive planning in case something goes wrong.

I'm sure they knew Crede would be iffy, a lot of fans did. They had Ozuna as a back up but when Crede proved unreliable, they valued defense over whatever Pablo brought to the table. And they had a guy in Uribe who they knew could play 3B, have a good attitude, and chip in offensively now and again.

They are just as frustrated with Uribe's offense as the fans are, probably more so. That is why they didn't extend him, that is why they got Orlando Cabrera. Another reason why they looked to trade him is because Guillen and Williams love this guy. He's great in the clubhouse and he's a pro, he doesn't whine. He's in his walk year and they wanted to do him a favor but again, they weren't going to give him away.

Juan gets a lot of credit for what he's done this year and management gets a lot of credit for not giving him away.

2906
09-17-2008, 01:42 PM
Very well said. Kenny TRIED to get rid of Uribe but there were no takers, thats why he is still on the team. It's more luck than anything else.

No, it takes two. The Dodgers wanted him, they were willing to give up Esteban Loaiza straight up. Williams refused, knowing Loaiza would be available later.

It's not luck. It's understanding the value of an asset and not just giving it away. Williams will trade anyone if he gets the right deal. He didn't get the right deal for Uribe.

Rounding_Third
09-17-2008, 01:43 PM
Kudos to KW (again). This team looks pretty solid for next year as is. Aside from Cabrera & Uribe, I'm not sure who our FA's are but we should have just about everyone back if KW wishes it. If we have Uribe at 3rd, Alexi at SS, Getz at 2nd, and a BA/Wise bench as a starting point, that gives KW so much flexibility and some cash to bring in anyone else at any of those IF positions, including resigning Cabrera and keeping Alexi at 2nd. Someone mentioned Blake and that would be a solid pickup, too. When KW got Alexi and Quentin so cheaply and they performed as he expected, everything fell into place for at least a 2 year run. KW is in the drivers seat this offseason. No matter what he does (hopefully just a little tweaking), we should be in the running yet again. It's too early to speculate about next year but it's comforting to know we'll be good again.

2906
09-17-2008, 01:45 PM
Lundini / Discipline:

If from what I've been told is true, getting Figgins might be cheaper than at first thought.

I've been told he is not liked at all by his teammates or the Angels organization and that his only "supporter" left is Scioscia.

If true, they may wish to move him for whatever they can get.

Lip

Well Mark, if he has Scioscia in his corner that's one hell of a supporter.

Even still, Figgins will be in his walk year, so his value is likely compromised. Lots of teams will want him though, he is a unique player and has skills that are scarce around MLB.

BleacherBandit
09-17-2008, 02:04 PM
Is there any way we could have Uribe converted to be the starting third-baseman in the future, instead of just filling in like he did earlier this season?

We should ditch Crede and go with Uribe in the meantime, because it looks like Ramirez is going to be converted to SS in the future as well. That's what I think. If anybody else doesn't feel as if Uribe should be the starter in '09, what are the concerns?

jabrch
09-17-2008, 02:17 PM
If anybody else doesn't feel as if Uribe should be the starter in '09, what are the concerns?

In one word - hitting.

I like Juan. If he's the best we can do, I can live with it. I hope we do better as a starter and have Uribe as a sub for all IF spots.

Noneck
09-17-2008, 02:24 PM
I have read numerous times here about the Sox trying to get Figgins in the off season. What do the Sox have that the Angels would want and the Sox could afford to lose? I'm thinking Uribe will stay, of course if he can be gotten on the cheap, if not welcome Josh Fields.

kittle42
09-17-2008, 02:32 PM
In one word - hitting.

I like Juan. If he's the best we can do, I can live with it. I hope we do better as a starter and have Uribe as a sub for all IF spots.

I have to agree.

Uribe as the starting 3B can only happen if he is the worst hitter in the starting 9 and we can afford to have one position be a defensive one. Did everyone forget how terrible he was before this recent stretch? I mean, he shouldn't have been starting for a major league team, and wasn't. The shortsightedness in wanting him to be the starting 3B in 2009 is amazing. I swear, if Ken Griffey went on a two-week tear here at the end of the year, people would be calling on Williams to pick up his $18 million option or whatever it is.

The Uribe situation is like the Anderson one in 2006. The Sox thought they could afford to have an overall offensive liability in CF because the rest of the lineup was supposed to be strong enough to overcome it. I think the same holds true for Uribe in 2009.

If Juan goes hitless in the playoffs or stinks up next April, many of the same people calling for him to be automatically plugged in at 3B will be running him out of town again.

And another thing, what has Chris Getz shown that we would anoint him the starting 2B next season? A 3/4 infield of Uribe, Ramirez, and Getz, as suggested above, could be atrocious.

jabrch
09-17-2008, 02:34 PM
A 3/4 infield of Uribe, Ramirez, and Getz, as suggested above, would be atrocious.

I'd say COULD be atrocious - but I agree with your point.

2906
09-17-2008, 02:40 PM
That they are supposedly wanting Figgins speaks volumes. Figgins can play all over the IF, even some OF. Uribe can play all over the IF. Alexei can play 2B and SS. Getz is a 2B but can also play some SS and 3B. And then there's Orlando Hudson.

Highly doubtful it will be Uribe at 3B, Ramirez at SS, and Getz at 2B for your starters. They'll aim higher.

But having Uribe in a super sub role is not a bad thing. I think Ramirez to SS is a slam dunk, and having the experienced Uribe around to give him a breather (and as insurance elsewhere) is a good thing as we're seeing now.

kittle42
09-17-2008, 02:44 PM
I'd say COULD be atrocious - but I agree with your point.

Point taken. I am actually going to edit it!

NLaloosh
09-17-2008, 02:46 PM
Agreed. Uribe will not be a starter next year. Ramirez is clearly the SS and they can and will do better at 3B and 2B for next year.

However, it should be clear to all now that Uribe is a good player to have on your bench and as insurance.

Because so many things did pan out for KW this year he doesn't have a lot to add this winter. So, getting one starting pitcher, a 2b and a 3b isn't going to be too difficult for him.

kittle42
09-17-2008, 02:48 PM
Because so many things did pan out for KW this year he doesn't have a lot to add this winter. So, getting one starting pitcher, a 2b and a 3b isn't going to be too difficult for him.

A real CF would still be nice!

Konerko05
09-17-2008, 03:03 PM
A real CF would still be nice!

If the Sox are able to upgrade at 2B and 3B, I'm guessing we will be seeing Brian Anderson in CF. Orlando Hudson and Chone Figgins seem to be Williams' two targets. If somehow Williams was able to acquire those two players, our lineup would be stacked and perfectly balanced. Having an above average true CF batting 9th wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. It would also free up some money for a pitcher. I know those are huge "ifs," but a guy can dream.

jabrch
09-17-2008, 03:09 PM
We could upgrade at 3B, 2B, SS, CF and backup C. Also 5th starter and some pen slots. At the same time, we could bring back a similar team and still be a contneder. It will all depend on what is available both that we know via FA and that we don't know via trade, and what the respective costs (salary and in what we'd have to give up) would be.

Should be another fun off season full of bitching and moaning about all the things Kenny didn't do that he should have.

Adele_H
09-17-2008, 03:16 PM
. Everyone hated him. It was nuts how much people hated him too. .

I don't know why people would hate Uribe..... but as one his biggest defenders I must admit that even I was running out of patience with his underachieving ways earlier this year. So I can't blame others for being beyond frustrated with the Tazmanian Corkscrew and maybe even giving up on him. Part of it is definately Juan's fault.

Decision to send the overrated & over-the-hill Pablo Ozuna packing while letting Uribe stay, however, was a no-brainer any way you look at it. Thankfully KW reconsidered his and Ozzie's spring-training impulses to get rid of Uribe. Moves you don't make sometimes being the best ones, and all that...

I will say this: Uribe has made his share of mistakes at 3B, including Jeter's "hit" yesterday, but he also has shown flashes of excellence there. I think his range in middle INF wasn't the best, but at the hot corner, he'll be more than fine.

hawkjt
09-17-2008, 03:30 PM
No surprise but just heard PK on AM1000 radio interview say that Juan is one of the most beloved guys in the clubhouse. PK said when he asked Juan ''why the blonde goatee?'' juan replied ''makes me look mean'' and they broke up laughing.

Another reason to keep Juan around...clubhouse chemistry.

Noneck
09-17-2008, 03:31 PM
Now I am reading upgrading at multiple positions not just Figgins at 3rd. Who do they have that are expendable and have worth for these upgrades? FA's will be will be priced beyond what the Sox perceive is the market value. So how do the Sox upgrade?

Foulke You
09-17-2008, 04:57 PM
I have read numerous times here about the Sox trying to get Figgins in the off season. What do the Sox have that the Angels would want and the Sox could afford to lose?
Chone Figgins is in the last year of a 3 year contract he signed prior to the 2006 season. He will be an unrestricted free agent after this year so if the Sox want him, they will have to pony up the cash and not players in trade. I'm sure every team that needs a leadoff man will be after him. Add to the fact that he can play infield and outfield and I have a feeling Figgins will go for more than people think. Guys with the skill set of Figgins are pretty rare in today's MLB.

Noneck
09-17-2008, 05:10 PM
Chone Figgins is in the last year of a 3 year contract he signed prior to the 2006 season. He will be an unrestricted free agent after this year so if the Sox want him, they will have to pony up the cash and not players in trade. I'm sure every team that needs a leadoff man will be after him. Add to the fact that he can play infield and outfield and I have a feeling Figgins will go for more than people think. Guys with the skill set of Figgins are pretty rare in today's MLB.


As I thought, the Sox have little to no chance of obtaining him and pipe dreams are running rampant here again. Thank you for supporting my case. And as I said before expect Uribe back if they can get him cheap or Fields will be at 3rd next year.

Jenks4Prez
09-17-2008, 05:11 PM
Now its time for the real Chone Figgins debate....

Is it pronounced "Ch-own" or "Sean?"

Foulke You
09-17-2008, 05:17 PM
As I thought, the Sox have little to no chance of obtaining him and pipe dreams are running rampant here again. Thank you for supporting my case. And as I said before expect Uribe back if they can get him cheap or Fields will be at 3rd next year.
Well, the Sox will have Uribe's $4.5 million and Crede's $9 million coming off the books next year so they will have some free agent spending cash to work with. I wouldn't say we have no chance of signing him but they should have no illusions about getting him "on the cheap". The question is, how much do they want to overpay to get Figgins and how many years do they want to give him? I think someone will give him 5 years and $50 million. Look how much money leadoff men Juan Pierre and Dave Roberts got in recent years and they weren't even as good as Figgins. Another thing to consider is that Chone is now 30 years old and knows this will be his last chance to cash in on a long term deal so I'm sure his agent is going to go with whoever gives him the best offer.

Noneck
09-17-2008, 05:27 PM
Well, the Sox will have Uribe's $4.5 million and Crede's $9 million coming off the books next year so they will have some free agent spending cash to work with. I wouldn't say we have no chance of signing him but they should have no illusions about getting him "on the cheap". The question is, how much do they want to overpay to get Figgins and how many years do they want to give him? I think someone will give him 5 years and $50 million. Look how much money leadoff men Juan Pierre and Dave Roberts got in recent years and they weren't even as good as Figgins. Another thing to consider is that Chone is now 30 years old and knows this will be his last chance to cash in on a long term deal so I'm sure his agent is going to go with whoever gives him the best offer.


The Sox will have 1st overpay just to get Figgens from the Angels. Then after getting him they will have to overpay (at least in their minds) to lock him up before the season. If they don't he will then test the FA market which is always overvalued in the Sox eyes. Uribe maybe or Fields at 3rd next year.

Nellie_Fox
09-17-2008, 05:42 PM
Now its time for the real Chone Figgins debate....

Is it pronounced "Ch-own" or "Sean?"Ka HONE ee

Noneck
09-17-2008, 05:47 PM
Ka HONE ee

Your comment and being on a diuretic did not bode well for me.

kittle42
09-17-2008, 05:55 PM
As I thought, the Sox have little to no chance of obtaining him and pipe dreams are running rampant here again. Thank you for supporting my case. And as I said before expect Uribe back if they can get him cheap or Fields will be at 3rd next year.

50 cents, dollar, whatnot.

Lip Man 1
09-17-2008, 06:18 PM
No Neck:

As you know Kenny eventually gets the players he wants. He's been after Hudson and Figgins for a long time. Take it for what that's worth.

Given his rep teams might get scared off of him. We'll have to wait and see but to say the Sox have "no chance" to get him is flat out wrong.

Lip

Noneck
09-17-2008, 06:48 PM
No Neck:

As you know Kenny eventually gets the players he wants. He's been after Hudson and Figgins for a long time. Take it for what that's worth.

Given his rep teams might get scared off of him. We'll have to wait and see but to say the Sox have "no chance" to get him is flat out wrong.

Lip
Ok Lip your word is gold to me. Just hope its not a 38 yr old Figgins, 8 years from now.

Foulke You
09-17-2008, 07:18 PM
The Sox will have 1st overpay just to get Figgens from the Angels.
Figgins is an unrestricted free agent after this season concludes. The Sox will not have to get him from the Angels via trade. They just need to make the highest bid like the Torii Hunter "sweepstakes" from last offseason. There seems to be a lot of misinformation about Chone's contract status. Even Cowley alluded to a trade to get him in the Sun Times today. However, as a sanity check, I looked up Chone's contract status and it confirms that I'm right. This article is from Jan 2006 when Chone Figgins just signed a 3 year extension thru 2008. There is nothing about him being under contract for 2009:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2292605

Noneck
09-17-2008, 07:32 PM
Figgins is an unrestricted free agent after this season concludes.

Thanks, I did not know this. This is smelling more and more like the Hunter saga.

guillensdisciple
09-17-2008, 08:03 PM
That could be the problem right there.

Damn. I knew that Walker didn't really do much but now Cooper has to be the hitting coach as well?

Geez, someone does not deserve their paycheck. :D:

Woops, *hits self in head*

Lip Man 1
09-17-2008, 10:50 PM
Foulke:

For what it's worth I spoke to a good source in the media who tells me the exact opposite. That Figgins is NOT a free agent, there may be some option clauses involved and that the thinking is that when the Angels ink Crede to a deal they'll trade Figgins to the Sox.

Lip

Frater Perdurabo
09-17-2008, 10:58 PM
What I have seen on Figgins is that yes, his contract is up after this season, but that he still has not accumulated sufficient service time to be eligible for free agency; that the Angels still retain his rights.

Noneck
09-17-2008, 11:24 PM
Foulke:

For what it's worth I spoke to a good source in the media who tells me the exact opposite. That Figgins is NOT a free agent, there may be some option clauses involved and that the thinking is that when the Angels ink Crede to a deal they'll trade Figgins to the Sox.

Lip
Lip,

I now assume you are correct about Figgins status. Do you think the Sox have and will be willing to give what it takes to get Figgins and then sign him. I am not doubting what your sources have told you, I am just asking for your personal knowledgeable opinion.

Lip Man 1
09-17-2008, 11:34 PM
Noneck:

It seems like the Angels would almost be willing to give him away if his teammates can't stand him and everyone in the organization except for Scioscia want him out the door.

That is if what I'm being told is true.

Under those circumstances absolutely, I think the Sox can swing a deal for him.

Lip

Foulke You
09-17-2008, 11:44 PM
Foulke:

For what it's worth I spoke to a good source in the media who tells me the exact opposite. That Figgins is NOT a free agent, there may be some option clauses involved and that the thinking is that when the Angels ink Crede to a deal they'll trade Figgins to the Sox.

Lip
Interesting. I hadn't heard that about him but it could explain the references to trades for Figgins. However, I've also seen him printed on some "free agents to be" lists for 2009 so who knows. If the Angels really want to overpay Boras for an injured Crede and then swing Figgins to us for a song, they are welcome to it.

Lip, have there been any specific instances with Figgins that have caused this clubhouse backlash? Mike Tsoscia doesn't strike me as a manager who would stick up for a guy who wasn't a good fit in the clubhouse. It didn't take Mike very long to show the high priced Jose Guillen the exit door in the middle of a pennant race. Why would he put up with garbage from Figgins if this were true? I almost wonder if the Angels just have too many primadonna high priced players on one team and that this isn't necessarily a Figgins problem.:scratch:

Noneck
09-17-2008, 11:44 PM
Noneck:

It seems like the Angels would almost be willing to give him away if his teammates can't stand him and everyone in the organization except for Scioscia want him out the door.

That is if what I'm being told is true.

Under those circumstances absolutely, I think the Sox can swing a deal for him.

Lip

But wouldn't other teams be bidding for him also? Wouldn't the angels trade him to the team that would offer them the most? I do understand the angels wanting to dump him but I would think many teams would want him also and would have and would be willing to offer more than the Sox. I believe you that the Sox want him but I just don't see them be willing to part with what it takes to get him and then lock him up. I guess time will tell and a heck of alot more important things to worry about now. Thanks.

Lip Man 1
09-18-2008, 12:11 AM
Foulke:

I'll check around and see if I can get some specifics for you. All I know right now is that he's considered a selfish player by his teammates and that the organization outside of Scioscia want to dump him. Again that's according to my source.

If that's true then we are talking about the G.M., the assistant G.M. and others who are in the camp of dumping him. There has to be a reason for this.

I think it's unlikely that all of his teammates and most of the organization are "against him" without good reason.

Lip

Konerko05
09-18-2008, 12:12 AM
Foulke:

I'll check around and see if I can get some specifics for you. All I know right now is that he's considered a selfish player by his teammates and that the organization outside of Scioscia want to dump him. Again that's according to my source.

If that's true then we are talking about the G.M., the assistant G.M. and others who are in the camp of dumping him. There has to be a reason for this.

I think it's unlikely that all of his teammates and most of the organization are "against him" without good reason.

Lip

I find this odd considering Williams usually targets good clubhouse guys with positive attitudes.

kittle42
09-18-2008, 12:13 AM
I find this odd considering Williams usually targets good clubhouse guys with positive attitudes.

That'll be the excuse for not getting him! Well, that and the being 50 cents short.

Nellie_Fox
09-18-2008, 01:06 AM
Noneck:

It seems like the Angels would almost be willing to give him away if his teammates can't stand him and everyone in the organization except for Scioscia want him out the door.

That is if what I'm being told is true.

Under those circumstances absolutely, I think the Sox can swing a deal for him.

LipThat's the stuff we heard about A.J., however, if it's true, why would the Sox want him?

Adele_H
09-18-2008, 01:44 AM
Noneck:

It seems like the Angels would almost be willing to give him away if his teammates can't stand him and everyone in the organization except for Scioscia want him out the door.

That is if what I'm being told is true.

Under those circumstances absolutely, I think the Sox can swing a deal for him.

Lip


Sounds like Willie Harris all over again - that is, if Willie had talent.

Then again, a few sessions with Greg Walker and Figgins... well, I'll just leave it to the imagination. ;)