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View Full Version : *Official*"Man, those sheets are starting to stink" 9/15 Postgame Thread


Jurr
09-15-2008, 09:49 PM
Yucky.

Marqhead
09-15-2008, 09:50 PM
Kind of glad I slept through the first 7 innings.

Hopefully the Tribe hangs on, get em tomorrow boys!

chisoxmike
09-15-2008, 09:50 PM
Our bullpen is garbage yet again.

It's going to be a long two weeks if this doesn't get fixed.

JB98
09-15-2008, 09:50 PM
We don't swing the bats well on the road.

Ozzie still trusts Ehren Wassermann in close games. :scratch:

Domeshot17
09-15-2008, 09:50 PM
This is the worst good team I think I have ever watched. How do we expect to win in the playoffs with no bullpen and no offense. Oh Carlos, if only your wrist could magically heal over night.

UofCSoxFan
09-15-2008, 09:51 PM
Bullpen bad. DeWayne Wise was our offense tonight. Real bad.

Go Tribe.

thomas35forever
09-15-2008, 09:52 PM
Does anyone have the 'pen's numbers since Joe Morgan opened his big mouth?

TheOldRoman
09-15-2008, 09:52 PM
Horrible bullpen, horrible hitting. Yep.

We didn't get the performance we needed from Mark tonight. We just played a double header, we play the next 10 days, and he wasted way too many pitches, which only allowed him to 6 innings. Hopefully someone steps up tomorrow.

stl_sox_fan
09-15-2008, 09:52 PM
As long as we don't face a team with a winning record in the playoffs, we're fine!

Sox new slogan
The AL Central....Someone's gotta win it!

Domeshot17
09-15-2008, 09:52 PM
My Friend called me and said "If I am the Red Sox or D Rays and I get the White Sox in the first round, I wouldn't pitch Beckett or Dice K or Kazmir. I would save them for round 2. I would go sign 2 crappy journeymen and bring up some no name kid, Sox would be done in 3"

PeoriaSoxFan
09-15-2008, 09:52 PM
What was Buehrle's pitch count when they took him out?

thomas35forever
09-15-2008, 09:53 PM
My Friend called me and said "If I am the Red Sox or D Rays and I get the White Sox in the first round, I wouldn't pitch Beckett or Dice K or Kazmir. I would save them for round 2. I would go sign 2 crappy journeymen and bring up some no name kid, Sox would be done in 3"
If he's a Flubs fan, go tell him to **** himself.

guillensdisciple
09-15-2008, 09:53 PM
Ozzie couldn't afford running his best out there which is fully understandable but I don't understand why you would throw Wasserman out there. He has a 7 era. Why not put in the guys that give you the best chance to win regardless of how bad they have been playing. I didn't expect to see Thorton, Linebrink, Dotel, or Jenks. Still he could have put in Horacio to begin the 7th and at given the sox a chance to score. Instead he puts in one of our worst relievers to hold a game that could have put the sox up by 2 and a half.

Well no harm was done since the Twinkies might lose... hopefully, I just don't want to see game gifted to other teams.

Get 'em tomorrow.

kitekrazy
09-15-2008, 09:53 PM
Bullpen bad. DeWayne Wise was our offense tonight. Real bad.

Go Tribe.

It's easy for some to ignore the Sox only scored 2 runs. That's fine if the other team scores 1.

chisoxmike
09-15-2008, 09:53 PM
My Friend called me and said "If I am the Red Sox or D Rays and I get the White Sox in the first round, I wouldn't pitch Beckett or Dice K or Kazmir. I would save them for round 2. I would go sign 2 crappy journeymen and bring up some no name kid, Sox would be done in 3"

That's what I would do. Especially if they throw change ups. The Sox would be dead.

Jurr
09-15-2008, 09:54 PM
This is the worst good team I think I have ever watched. How do we expect to win in the playoffs with no bullpen and no offense. Oh Carlos, if only your wrist could magically heal over night.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Worst good team is very apt.
They just don't have the "horses" to compete right now. It's a makeshift situation. There is no continuity to the lineup, due to injuries. The bullpen is a train wreck. We talked earlier about not just wanting to see the Sox make the playoffs, because playoff losses really sting. This team isn't built right now to have any type of sustained success. If they happened to get into the playoffs, it would be a quick exit.

SoxSpeed22
09-15-2008, 09:55 PM
In all seriousness, who the hell can Ozzie trust anymore? Just about everyone he threw out there were ignitors in the last few days. This is possibly the worst time for this to happen.

rdwj
09-15-2008, 09:56 PM
Holding the Yankees to 4 isn't that bad. We've got to get more runs than two if we expect to win.

WhiteSox5187
09-15-2008, 09:56 PM
The problem that the Sox face right now is the same they faced last year: regardless of who the Sox trot out there in the late innings they are incapable of getting the job done. Dotel couldn't do last night (or in any clutch situation), Thornton has looked shakey at times but he pitched in both games yesterday so he wasn't available, Linebrink isn't 100% and Jenks can only pitch one inning. Everyone else isn't a major league pitcher. NO ONE is getting the job done. There isn't anyone here who can do what they are supposed to do. Kenny's gamble not to get Bradford has backfired (but i'm not going to hold that against him).

Unless all of the starters start to go 8 innings (which will be rough to do as they're going to be pitching on short rest now), we're going to be in for a looooong two weeks.

Pear-Zin-Ski
09-15-2008, 09:56 PM
My Friend called me and said "If I am the Red Sox or D Rays and I get the White Sox in the first round, I wouldn't pitch Beckett or Dice K or Kazmir. I would save them for round 2. I would go sign 2 crappy journeymen and bring up some no name kid, Sox would be done in 3"

...and we laugh because its true!

sox1970
09-15-2008, 09:58 PM
Ehren Wassermann should not be getting decisions in games less than 12 innings.

That is all.

#1swisher
09-15-2008, 09:58 PM
What was Buehrle's pitch count when they took him out?

around 102 not sure sports/yahoo has his pitch count at 101

guillensdisciple
09-15-2008, 09:58 PM
I was thinking the exact same thing. Worst good team is very apt.
They just don't have the "horses" to compete right now. It's a makeshift situation. There is no continuity to the lineup, due to injuries. The bullpen is a train wreck. We talked earlier about not just wanting to see the Sox make the playoffs, because playoff losses really sting. This team isn't built right now to have any type of sustained success. If they happened to get into the playoffs, it would be a quick exit.

I disagree... playoff baseball is different, on any given day any team can win. Rockies last year, Cardinals a few years back.


Sox starting pitching is doing their job which bodes well for them in the playoffs. Their hitting will be fine, don't let this one bring you down.

The bullpen should be fine as I expect Dotel to be going through a funk right now and Linebrink to regain form.

The white sox have a good enough team to compete with anybody, just all the pieces have to click.

PeoriaSoxFan
09-15-2008, 09:59 PM
If I calculated right, Swishwer is now 8 for his last 71. That is a cool .113

turners56
09-15-2008, 10:00 PM
Ozzie needs to learn that Ehren Wasserman, Boone Logan, and Horacio Ramirez all suck. Therefore, stop using them! All of them have ERAs over 5 and WHIPs that are too high for any kind of a ML reliever. Not to mention they've all sucked recently. Even though MacDougal struggled through his 1.1 innings, he didn't break. I think Mac deserves the 7th inning from now on. He's much better than Wasserman as a right handed arm.

sox1970
09-15-2008, 10:00 PM
If I calculated right, Swishwer is now 8 for his last 71. That is a cool .113

He'll be sitting for a few days I'm sure.

veeter
09-15-2008, 10:01 PM
Ozzie has to rest Thornton and Bobby wisely. He probably figures the Sox win the games when he can pitch those two. Otherwise, roll the dice and/ or hope the Twins lose. It worked out tonite. We've danced through the rain drops all season long, what's another two weeks? With the injuries and this 'pen, if they win the division, Guillen is manger of the year.

WhiteSox5187
09-15-2008, 10:01 PM
If I calculated right, Swishwer is now 8 for his last 71. That is a cool .113
Swisher is not the problem of late.

UofCSoxFan
09-15-2008, 10:01 PM
If I calculated right, Swishwer is now 8 for his last 71. That is a cool .113

Wow. That's a month's worth of ABs too not exatcly a fluke sample.

UofCSoxFan
09-15-2008, 10:02 PM
He'll be sitting for a few days I'm sure.

As soon as Konerko comes back I bet. We really don't have another 1B.

UofCSoxFan
09-15-2008, 10:03 PM
:twinslose

That's something right?

PeoriaSoxFan
09-15-2008, 10:03 PM
:twinslose
We might have to back into this thing the way we are going.
The Cardinals did that in '06 I believe.

turners56
09-15-2008, 10:04 PM
Last night's bullpen blowup has a direct relationship to our loss in this game. Had our bullpen held that lead last night and not used Dotel and Thornton, we could of had more fresh arms to use.

As of now, I'm thinking 2-2 in the Stadium at best. It's a good the Twins lost again. That Lewis guy Cleveland has has thrown 14 scoreless innings to start off his career. Scary stuff. What's worse is that we have to face him and Lee in the last series of the year.

joebro25
09-15-2008, 10:04 PM
If I calculated right, Swishwer is now 8 for his last 71. That is a cool .113

Not just his hitting tonight, that pick off play was horrible, lucky it didn't cost us any runs. Also, Horacio Ramirez should never pitch in non blowout situations.

JB98
09-15-2008, 10:04 PM
We might have to back into this thing the way we are going. The Cardinals did that in '06 I believe.

Well, somebody has to win when we play the Twins. I don't think anyone will be backing in.

Konerko05
09-15-2008, 10:05 PM
Buehrle should have pitched the 7th inning. Buehrle at 102 pitches is better than Wasserman. Why go to the bullpen an inning early?

I understand the point about saving our starters arms, but this is the point in the season the starters arms should be saved for. Every game is crucial. Buehrle has proved he can handle a workload. I don't see any reason to pull him. He cruised through the 6th inning with ease.

turners56
09-15-2008, 10:06 PM
Buehrle should have pitched the 7th inning. Buehrle at 102 pitches is better than Wasserman. Why go to the bullpen an inning early?

I understand the point about saving our starters arms, but this is the point in the season the starters arms should be saved for. Every game is crucial. Buehrle has proved he can handle a workload. I don't see any reason to pull him. He cruised through the 6th inning with ease.

Taking Buehrle out in that inning wasn't the worst idea. He can go 115 pitches without being that tired. However, Nady had hit him very hard in the previous 3 ABs. I think that had a lot to do with Ozzie taking him out. What replaced Buehrle unfortunately, was not what I wanted to see...

SoxSpeed22
09-15-2008, 10:07 PM
Well, somebody has to win when we play the Twins. I don't think anyone will be backing in.You got to admit that at this point, it doesn't look like anyone wants this division.

anewman35
09-15-2008, 10:07 PM
Yep, that sucked. But at this point, any day that goes by that we don't lose any ground is a good day, so I'm not too upset about it. I think we can all agree we're not a great team, and we're going to lose a lot of games we should probably win, but if you notice Minnesota does too. Odds are we're not going to win the World Series but hopefully we have enough to hold off Minnesota for two weeks and (at least in my mind) it'll be a very successful season, considering the expectations.

chisoxfanatic
09-15-2008, 10:07 PM
At least we didn't lose our 1.5 game lead; but, why does our bullpen have to give up runs immediately when they come into the game?

This is gonna be a very long next couple of weeks.

sox1970
09-15-2008, 10:07 PM
As soon as Konerko comes back I bet. We really don't have another 1B.

PK is back tomorrow.

PeoriaSoxFan
09-15-2008, 10:08 PM
Well, somebody has to win when we play the Twins. I don't think anyone will be backing in.


True. I have a horrible fear that our bullpen will play a big role in that series.

At least the Twins still have to face Lee on Wed and TB this weekend in TB. I think we may be lucky to win 1 here in NY the way we are going. I hope we at least go into Minn. with a 2 game lead, although I'd settle for anything on the + side at this point.

JB98
09-15-2008, 10:09 PM
You got to admit that at this point, it doesn't look like anyone wants this division.

The Sox are 6-7 in September. It's not like they are losing eight in a row like the 2006 Cardinals. Each loss is so painful right now. It feels like the Sox are doing worse than they actually are.

I don't think the Sox are blowing it or backing in right now, but they aren't seizing it either. I guess these struggles are to be expected without Q and Paulie. Hopefully, Konerko is ready to go tomorrow.

delben91
09-15-2008, 10:09 PM
True. I have a horrible fear that our bullpen will play a big role in that series.



The Twins should also have a horrible fear that their bullpen will play a big role in that series. :dunno:

guillensdisciple
09-15-2008, 10:10 PM
The Sox are 6-7 in September. It's not like they are losing eight in a row like the 2006 Cardinals. Each loss is so painful right now. It feels like the Sox are doing worse than they actually are.

I don't think the Sox are blowing it or backing in right now, but they aren't seizing it either. I guess these struggles are to be expected without Q and Paulie. Hopefully, Konerko is ready to go tomorrow.

Very nice. I think everyone is going a little crazy.

Rdy2PlayBall
09-15-2008, 10:10 PM
PK is back tomorrow.:bandance: Let's just hope he is back the way he was when he left! :D:

Lip Man 1
09-15-2008, 10:11 PM
Jurr:

Just my opinion but I'd rather make the playoffs and get dumped on then sitting at home the first week of October.

But that's just me.

Lip

Domeshot17
09-15-2008, 10:11 PM
You got to admit that at this point, it doesn't look like anyone wants this division.

We talked about it early in the season, this team just 100000% lacks any feeling of killer instinct. They don't smell blood in the water. They don't finish teams or games very well, and they seem to just rest on their laurels a lot. We let the Tigers hang around for far too long, and we completely fail to put any distance between us and the twins. With any sense of urgency, this team could be 4 or 5 up. Hell, I go back to that make up extra inning game with Baltimore. No reason we lose that game, but it was big, we could have put an extra game up that night. I sure as hell would rather be 2.5-3.5-4-5 up on the Twins.

sox1970
09-15-2008, 10:12 PM
jurr:

Just my opinion but i'd rather make the playoffs and get dumped on then sitting at home the first week of october.

But that's just me.

Lip

+1

cws05champ
09-15-2008, 10:12 PM
Buehrle should not have been taken out after 6 IP and 101 pitches. Plain and simple. With the BP blowing up the way they have lately you have to give your starter another inning and Mark has proven that he can take it. Blew a good opp to go up 2.5 on the Twins..:angry::angry:

JB98
09-15-2008, 10:15 PM
Jurr:

Just my opinion but I'd rather make the playoffs and get dumped on then sitting at home the first week of October.

But that's just me.

Lip

It's not just you. The Sox may not be a World Series team this year, but I think they are the best team in the AL Central. I would like to see them play up to that potential.

guillensdisciple
09-15-2008, 10:16 PM
We talked about it early in the season, this team just 100000% lacks any feeling of killer instinct. They don't smell blood in the water. They don't finish teams or games very well, and they seem to just rest on their laurels a lot. We let the Tigers hang around for far too long, and we completely fail to put any distance between us and the twins. With any sense of urgency, this team could be 4 or 5 up. Hell, I go back to that make up extra inning game with Baltimore. No reason we lose that game, but it was big, we could have put an extra game up that night. I sure as hell would rather be 2.5-3.5-4-5 up on the Twins.

Cabrera himself said that about this team. He said talent wise they have an absolute monster team but he doesn't feel that killer instinct that he felt from playing with playoff contending teams.

All year the Sox have always been missing some aspect and we have always been looking for them to gel completely. Now the hitting and pitching are stable but what the hell happened to the bullpen?

Konerko05
09-15-2008, 10:17 PM
Taking Buehrle out in that inning wasn't the worst idea. He can go 115 pitches without being that tired. However, Nady had hit him very hard in the previous 3 ABs. I think that had a lot to do with Ozzie taking him out. What replaced Buehrle unfortunately, was not what I wanted to see...

Our horrible bullpen was already taxed from Sunday. Our workhorse is on the mound pitching relatively well. Taking him out after 6 innings is not a good idea.

tstrike2000
09-15-2008, 10:18 PM
If we win the division, the bullpen is pretty much Linebrink, Thornton, and Jenks and even they've been a little shaky lately. As for the rest of the guys in the 'pen, may as well just back the truck up. Without someone else to step it up there, it'll be a first round exit.

kitekrazy
09-15-2008, 10:20 PM
I disagree... playoff baseball is different, on any given day any team can win. Rockies last year, Cardinals a few years back.


Great post. The 2005 post season Sox were dominant. Did anyone think they would lose only once in the post season?

Pods hits a homer, El Duque retires everyone with the bases loaded, Marte didn't choke.

PeoriaSoxFan
09-15-2008, 10:21 PM
Buehrle should not have been taken out after 6 IP and 101 pitches. Plain and simple. With the BP blowing up the way they have lately you have to give your starter another inning and Mark has proven that he can take it. Blew a good opp to go up 2.5 on the Twins..:angry::angry:

I tend to agree, but there is still the little problem that we can't score any runs. Once again, a rookie pitcher handles us. He has been good, but seriously, can we hit any rookie? Now we have Pettitte and Mussina in 2 of the last 3. I thought Ponson was pitching in this series, but apparently that changed.

veeter
09-15-2008, 10:26 PM
Let's remember the Sox got in at 4:30 this morning. And the Yankees are pretty damn good team. All in all, it was a pretty good baseball game. Cabrera made a great play at short, and Griffey looked 10 years younger in center tonite. I think we'll see a lot more energy tomorrow. Go Sox.

kitekrazy
09-15-2008, 10:26 PM
I tend to agree, but there is still the little problem that we can't score any runs. Once again, a rookie pitcher handles us.

That could be a damning thing facing the Royals and Indians.

guillensdisciple
09-15-2008, 10:28 PM
Look for the split in the series, I think with a rested bullpen tomorrow the Sox should be on all cylinders running. I think the sox will go into the dome with either a 1.5 game lead or a 2.5.

Since the Twinkies are playing the rays in a four gamer and are about to face Cliff Lee if the Sox just go4-2, or 5-1 we will probably have a 3.5 to 4.5 game lead. Then again the rays are worrying me right now... if they lose the lead completely to the red sox they might be in too big of a funk to beat the twins on the road.

The Sox can pull this division before we play the twinkies at the dome (if the royals don't pull an upset on the Sox)... we won't completely eliminate the Twinkies but we could go in there with some breathing room.

TheOldRoman
09-15-2008, 10:28 PM
Jurr:

Just my opinion but I'd rather make the playoffs and get dumped on then sitting at home the first week of October.

But that's just me.

LipYep. At least we get a t-shirt out of it.

PeoriaSoxFan
09-15-2008, 10:37 PM
I believe the magic number is 12 right now, which really doesn't mean a lot, when we have 13 left to play.

I am going to project Minnesota going 7-5 the rest of the way. If that happened, we would need to go 7-6. How did Minnesota get KC on the schedule for two three games series, within 2 weeks of each other at home, in the last month?

kittle42
09-15-2008, 10:37 PM
Cabrera himself said that about this team. He said talent wise they have an absolute monster team but he doesn't feel that killer instinct that he felt from playing with playoff contending teams.

Did he then call up to the scorer's booth and see if maybe the instinct was up there?

guillensdisciple
09-15-2008, 10:38 PM
Did he then call up to the scorer's booth and see if maybe the instinct was up there?
He might have.....

SoxandtheCityTee
09-15-2008, 10:41 PM
Did he then call up to the scorer's booth and see if maybe the instinct was up there?

Yes, he did this in his spare time after getting caught stealing with JD at the plate -- again.

CHISOXFAN13
09-15-2008, 10:42 PM
Buehrle should not have been taken out after 6 IP and 101 pitches. Plain and simple. With the BP blowing up the way they have lately you have to give your starter another inning and Mark has proven that he can take it. Blew a good opp to go up 2.5 on the Twins..:angry::angry:

We still didn't hit in the next three innings. Even if he tosses up another scoreless frame, the offense wasn't getting the job done.

And understandable after yesterday and a long flight.

Go get 'em tomorrow.

hawkjt
09-15-2008, 10:42 PM
I assume we have every live arm in the organization in the dugout now,right?
I think ozzie had to pull MB with 101 pitches...we need him to start 2 or 3 times yet.
It kills me to see the yanks have that lefty come in who is straight up from the minors and just make our guys look silly. He would be our best reliever right now.
Bullpen woes aside...if our offense is going to score 2 runs and only have a couple of others reach 2nd base(and then cabrera proceeds to run into an out at third) we had no shot tonite anyway. I figured we had no shot at any runs vs this aceves guy...he is new ,right?
Luckily,we had one guy in the lineup that didnt know that we are not allowed to hit rookies, Wise has not learned that lesson yet,evidently.

Does anyone really think that if ozzie leaves mb in, we ever score anyway. We are pretty much ice cold at the plate now,outside of Wise.
Bullpen slumping,hitting slumping,...our starters are solid. Tough road to hoe. Go sox.

Lip Man 1
09-15-2008, 10:46 PM
Guillen:

Minnesota is at Tampa beginning Thursday. Just FYI.

---------

And Cabrera has been running the Sox out of innings all season long, nothing new there. In a few months he can run some other team out of innings.

Lip

sox1970
09-15-2008, 10:46 PM
I believe the magic number is 12 right now, which really doesn't mean a lot, when we have 13 left to play.

I am going to project Minnesota going 7-5 the rest of the way. If that happened, we would need to go 7-6. How did Minnesota get KC on the schedule for two three games series, within 2 weeks of each other at home, in the last month?

Sox need to clinch on or before September 27. I don't want any part of Cliff Lee the last game, or having to play the Tigers on the 29th.

guillensdisciple
09-15-2008, 10:47 PM
Our hitting is not slumping man, our bullpen is slumping. We just lit up the tigers, beat one of the best pitchers in baseball in Halladay and the next day scored four runs. Pretty damn good. Might I add that we also beat The Angels John Lackey.

The sox arrived in NY at 4 A. M. Probably went to sleep at 5. I don't know when they woke up but I don't believe their team energy was as high as usual.

JB98
09-15-2008, 10:47 PM
Sox need to clinch on or before September 27. I don't want any part of Cliff Lee the last game, or having to play the Tigers on the 29th.

I'm not too worried about the Tigers.

sox1970
09-15-2008, 10:51 PM
I'm not too worried about the Tigers.

:lol:

I would be!

slavko
09-15-2008, 11:00 PM
Ozzie needs to learn that Ehren Wasserman, Boone Logan, and Horacio Ramirez all suck. Therefore, stop using them! All of them have ERAs over 5 and WHIPs that are too high for any kind of a ML reliever. Not to mention they've all sucked recently. Even though MacDougal struggled through his 1.1 innings, he didn't break. I think Mac deserves the 7th inning from now on. He's much better than Wasserman as a right handed arm.

Mac bought himself some playing time tonight. He sucks less than anyone else who throws righty in the bullpen right now.

JB98
09-15-2008, 11:01 PM
:lol:

I would be!

We've kicked their ass every which way but sideways all year. We own them.

Of course, I recall you telling us the Tigers were a bigger threat to the Sox than the Twins. Apparently, you still haven't learned that Detroit sucks. If you don't believe me, just ask their fans, who have to put up with their **** every day.

sox1970
09-15-2008, 11:06 PM
We've kicked their ass every which way but sideways all year. We own them.

Of course, I recall you telling us the Tigers were a bigger threat to the Sox than the Twins. Apparently, you still haven't learned that Detroit sucks. If you don't believe me, just ask their fans, who have to put up with their **** every day.

I think the majority of Sox fans would just as soon win the damn thing before then. It doesn't matter who they would have to play that game 162, whether it be the Tigers, Mariners, Rangers, whomever.

hawkjt
09-15-2008, 11:07 PM
Our hitting is not slumping man, our bullpen is slumping. We just lit up the tigers, beat one of the best pitchers in baseball in Halladay and the next day scored four runs. Pretty damn good. Might I add that we also beat The Angels John Lackey.

The sox arrived in NY at 4 A. M. Probably went to sleep at 5. I don't know when they woke up but I don't believe their team energy was as high as usual.


Maybe slumping is not the right word for our hitting...we miss Carlos and PK..that is part of it.But,seriously, can you name a hitter that is hot right now besides Wise? Sure we lit up two pitchers yesterday with ERA's north of 5.0 but before that we could not touch marcum,litske,Burnett,and Saunders. Halladay we got to for 5 runs.
Bottom line, a good hitting team should not be totally hapless against a rookie like tonite. Now, we face Pettitt,Hughes,Mussina. Can we hit any of them? Maybe hughes.... After that we get Greinke and Gil whatshisname. Then slowey,liriano and baker, then the rookie that shut down the twins tonite, anther rookie and Cliff lee.....I say we might hit hughes since we have seen him before. Not sure about the rest.

DumpJerry
09-15-2008, 11:10 PM
Our bullpen is garbage yet again.

It's going to be a long two weeks if this doesn't get fixed.
Our bullpen gave up two runs.

Our offense, on the other hand, was garbage. Totally offensive.

hawkjt
09-15-2008, 11:14 PM
Our bullpen gave up two runs.

Our offense, on the other hand, was garbage. Totally offensive.


I agree, Melton spent the whole postgame show talking about our lousy bullpen and barely mentioned that we scored a whole two runs on one big hit and that was about it.

This year's yankees are all about a good offense with horrible pitching so we need to win these games 8-6 when it is not Mussina on the mound.

FoulTerritory
09-15-2008, 11:17 PM
Buehrle should not have been taken out after 6 IP and 101 pitches. Plain and simple. With the BP blowing up the way they have lately you have to give your starter another inning and Mark has proven that he can take it. Blew a good opp to go up 2.5 on the Twins..:angry::angry:

Couldn't agree more. Is this the same Ozzie that allowed 4 straight complete games in the 05 ALCS? I know that that was p-offs, but seriously, these games right now are starting to become THAT important -- at least important enough to allow Buerhle to throw one more inning.

I'm actually a huge Ozzie supporter, in general. But this was a horribly managed game. No doubt about it.

cws05champ
09-15-2008, 11:27 PM
We still didn't hit in the next three innings. Even if he tosses up another scoreless frame, the offense wasn't getting the job done.

And understandable after yesterday and a long flight.

Go get 'em tomorrow.
I agree the offense still did not score, but the BP giving up two runs the inning they come in changes the way the game is played. If Mark throws a 0 in the 7th, then a leadoff basehit in the 8th turns into a sacrifice vs having to get several XB hits to tie the game.

FoulTerritory
09-15-2008, 11:31 PM
I agree the offense still did not score, but the BP giving up two runs the inning they come in changes the way the game is played. If Mark throws a 0 in the 7th, then a leadoff basehit in the 8th turns into a sacrifice vs having to get several XB hits to tie the game.

Exactly.

And critiquing the offense and critiquing the managing are distinct. The obvious thing that I didn't bring up in my previous thread is that aside from the mere fact that regardless of our Bullpen Burls should have been left in, it is especially obvious that you have to leave Mark in when your bullpen has been sucking butt for the last month. I mean, its a no brainer to leave mark in for at least the 7th.

LoveYourSuit
09-15-2008, 11:44 PM
The Sox are 6-7 in September. It's not like they are losing eight in a row like the 2006 Cardinals. Each loss is so painful right now. It feels like the Sox are doing worse than they actually are.

I don't think the Sox are blowing it or backing in right now, but they aren't seizing it either. I guess these struggles are to be expected without Q and Paulie. Hopefully, Konerko is ready to go tomorrow.


6-7 when you are suppose take charge and put this thing away is not too exciting for me.

I expected this team to take the bull by the horn and run away and make a statement going into the post season.

The only statement they have made is that they might have the worst bullpen of the 8 that qualify going in.

Bad bullpens are a recipe for a quick 3 and out series.

Mohoney
09-16-2008, 12:02 AM
Our bullpen gave up two runs.

Our offense, on the other hand, was garbage. Totally offensive.

The offense did suck, but that doesn't change the fact that 2 runs in 3 innings = garbage.

guillensdisciple
09-16-2008, 12:50 AM
6-7 when you are suppose take charge and put this thing away is not too exciting for me.

I expected this team to take the bull by the horn and run away and make a statement going into the post season.

The only statement they have made is that they might have the worst bullpen of the 8 that qualify going in.

Bad bullpens are a recipe for a quick 3 and out series.
This is all fine and dandy, but would you rather have the sox be in the battle of their lives and things go right at the very end much like the 05 year, 06, 07, and -08. All those teams "choked at the end". just look at how the rays are doing and the red sox. They are playing meaningful games now, which bodes better for them in the playoffs because high pressure situations will meet them at every turn.

Trust me I would rather the Sox make it fighting the fight of their lives then make it coasting. 2000 was a great example of why that won't work. Look at the Twinkies teams that knocked out the division and won nothing.

Teams that consistently play against adversity win championships. The sox are going through self adversity... which is the hardest to overcome. The sox overcome themselves, they will win the world series.

EuroSox35
09-16-2008, 01:29 AM
Should've won this game, Buerhle gives you a good start on the road, but we waved the white flag with the handling of the pitching tonight

hawkjt
09-16-2008, 03:28 AM
Did anyone actually think we looked like we were capable of scoring off the yankee bullpen tonite?

We did not come close. MB could have pitched 10 innings and the result was going to be the same.

palehozenychicty
09-16-2008, 09:46 AM
Did anyone actually think we looked like we were capable of scoring off the yankee bullpen tonite?

We did not come close. MB could have pitched 10 innings and the result was going to be the same.


Indeed. The elements were hardly in place for the Sox to win this one. I think Cabrera running himself out of the first inning didn't help momentum either.

assrevolution
09-16-2008, 10:04 AM
Please Kenny, no more Kansas City Royal relievers okay? all right? Do no other teams want to deal relievers because our trades end in our giveaways hitting the DL almost immediately? Let's pick another club to fill the back of the bullpen. Anyone will do.

Chicken Dinner
09-16-2008, 10:14 AM
Please Kenny, no more Kansas City Royal relievers okay? all right? Do no other teams want to deal relievers because our trades end in our giveaways hitting the DL almost immediately? Let's pick another club to fill the back of the bullpen. Anyone will do.

I'm sick of KC throwaways myself. But on the other hand, WHY does Ozzie keep bringing them in..........

oeo
09-16-2008, 10:20 AM
Please Kenny, no more Kansas City Royal relievers okay? all right?

You're kidding...I hope.

You whine about Ramirez, you whine about Logan. If Kenny did nothing, there would be whining. Kenny did something, and there's whining.

Do no other teams want to deal relievers because our trades end in our giveaways hitting the DL almost immediately? Let's pick another club to fill the back of the bullpen. Anyone will do.How about this for the situation: no one wants to give up relief pitching. Even bad teams don't want to do it. The Braves didn't want to trade Will ****ing Ohman at the deadline unless someone was going to overpay. When you see teams that are going nowhere refusing to trade bad relievers having career years, it's obvious there's some type of problem there.

Name some teams that picked up some good relievers through a trade this year? This is why relievers are getting overpaid these days...they're just too valuable.

And it wasn't like Kenny didn't try to make a trade for a real reliever. He pushed hard for Huston Street, and also for Brian Fuentes (who the Rockies wanted Poreda for...yeah, that's how valuable relief pitching is).

I'm sick of KC throwaways myself. But on the other hand, WHY does Ozzie keep bringing them in..........

Who the hell do you want him to bring in? There's a complaint thread about every guy in the bullpen, and yet it's always Ozzie's fault because he 'brings them in.' Who would you like him to bring in next time?

Noneck
09-16-2008, 11:13 AM
Name some teams that picked up some good relievers through a trade this year? .





Tampa, Chad Bradford who the Sox let slip by on the wavier wire. Good? Don't know what you consider good but he is a playoff experienced RH reliefer, he's been better than any RH set up man that the Sox have had lately.

salty99
09-16-2008, 11:21 AM
Yes the offense only scored 2 runs, but if it's still a tie game we most likely don't see Joba and Mo in the 8th and 9th. I put this loss on the whole team.

oeo
09-16-2008, 11:24 AM
Tampa, Chad Bradford who the Sox let slip by on the wavier wire. Good? Don't know what you consider good but he is a playoff experienced RH reliefer, he's been better than any RH set up man that the Sox have had lately.

Okay, that was one exception, but you get my point: there wasn't much out there unless you were willing to overpay.

Noneck
09-16-2008, 11:37 AM
Okay, that was one exception, but you get my point: there wasn't much out there unless you were willing to overpay.

I understand your point but when a team loses their premier setup man and their #5 starter and the team is in a heated playoff race in August the team may have to overpay. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

2906
09-16-2008, 11:58 AM
I understand your point but when a team loses their premier setup man and their #5 starter and the team is in a heated playoff race in August the team may have to overpay. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

That's true. I don't think they wanted to pay Bradford $3.5M next year, which is an argument for another day.

It was a good thing they had Carrasco hiding in AAA most of the year, despite recent hiccups he has helped this team.

15-16 pitchers minimum are needed to get through a season. The Sox aren't as insulated as they thought they were unfortunately. Sometimes it happens that way.

Jurr
09-16-2008, 12:37 PM
I disagree... playoff baseball is different, on any given day any team can win. Rockies last year, Cardinals a few years back.


Sox starting pitching is doing their job which bodes well for them in the playoffs. Their hitting will be fine, don't let this one bring you down.

The bullpen should be fine as I expect Dotel to be going through a funk right now and Linebrink to regain form.

The white sox have a good enough team to compete with anybody, just all the pieces have to click.
People keep bringing up the Cards and Rockies. They played HOT for a while to get into the playoffs those years. It carried. The Sox ARE NOT playing well, and have not shown consistent success for a while. I hope it turns around, but it's just not looking like their year.

guillensdisciple
09-16-2008, 12:40 PM
The Cardinals blew, the Sox were cold until the last week in '05, and the tigers lost a huge lead in the division in '06.

Jurr
09-16-2008, 12:43 PM
This is all fine and dandy, but would you rather have the sox be in the battle of their lives and things go right at the very end much like the 05 year, 06, 07, and -08. All those teams "choked at the end". just look at how the rays are doing and the red sox. They are playing meaningful games now, which bodes better for them in the playoffs because high pressure situations will meet them at every turn.

Trust me I would rather the Sox make it fighting the fight of their lives then make it coasting. 2000 was a great example of why that won't work. Look at the Twinkies teams that knocked out the division and won nothing.

Teams that consistently play against adversity win championships. The sox are going through self adversity... which is the hardest to overcome. The sox overcome themselves, they will win the world series.
The teams that win the world series AT SOME POINT IN THE SEASON look like the best team in baseball. It RARELY happens any other way. This Sox team has been absolutely schizophrenic all year offensively, which dictated the streaky nature on the W-L board. The one constant was pitching. The bullpen could absolutely suffocate teams late.

It's not there anymore with the BP. Our MVP is on the shelf. **** happens. Here's hoping for miracles. :gulp:

Foulke You
09-16-2008, 12:44 PM
Okay, that was one exception, but you get my point: there wasn't much out there unless you were willing to overpay.
I think if Kenny could have looked into the future and saw the current state of our bullpen, I believe he would have made a move. Hindsight is always 20/20. When the trade deadline came around, Carrasco was pitching good, Dotel wasn't a complete gas can, and there was hope Linebrink would be back by late August so it didn't seem like it was an extreme need.

assrevolution
09-16-2008, 01:16 PM
You're kidding...I hope.

You whine about Ramirez, you whine about Logan. If Kenny did nothing, there would be whining. Kenny did something, and there's whining.

Just because the GM does 'something' (acquire pitching with historically bad ERAs) I should just be happy and say that's the best we can be? I should move to Oakland then just for the sheer volume of moves. GM is a tought job, yes, I know. I like most of Kenny's moves but the KC pitching acquisitions have all sucked. He gets the credit when the moves work but he also deserves the criticism when they don't.

jabrch
09-16-2008, 01:46 PM
I think if Kenny could have looked into the future and saw the current state of our bullpen, I believe he would have made a move.

Like what?

He tried - and there was nothing to do that he liked. He wanted to get Fuentes - and tried hard by all accounts.

The only thing I think he'd have done differently, with the advantage of course of hindsight, is acquired a 5th starter. The Contreras collapse really hurt - he was supposedly looking really good and was ready to go.

jabrch
09-16-2008, 01:49 PM
People keep bringing up the Cards and Rockies. They played HOT for a while to get into the playoffs those years. It carried. The Sox ARE NOT playing well, and have not shown consistent success for a while. I hope it turns around, but it's just not looking like their year.

Sounds like the same posts we heard three years ago today. Anything can happen. You can take a pessimistic look if you like, and the odds are much better that you are right than wrong. But if that's the case, I'd worry more about the collapse of our financial markets, global warming, the energy crisis, El Nino, communism, Al Qaeda, Qadaffi, the Germans and the bubonic plague than the chance that the Sox don't make it to the World Series.

Why can't people just enjoy baseball, and enjoy having a first place team that really does (despite the grandstanding by some) have a legitimate chance at winning it all this year?

For crying out loud - reading some of the posts here, I can't tell if this is 2007 or 2008. It's amazing how crabb(pp)y our fans are in the heat of a pennant race.

Lundind1
09-16-2008, 01:50 PM
KW has tried. That is one of the reasons that they are going to revamp the minor league system, to develop real talent and some trade bait.

Pitching will win ball games. We might have to hope that we get just enough here down the immediate stretch.

hellview
09-16-2008, 01:51 PM
People keep bringing up the Cards and Rockies. They played HOT for a while to get into the playoffs those years. It carried. The Sox ARE NOT playing well, and have not shown consistent success for a while. I hope it turns around, but it's just not looking like their year.

The Cards played like garbage in September of 2006.

hellview
09-16-2008, 01:52 PM
KW has tried. That is one of the reasons that they are going to revamp the minor league system, to develop real talent and some trade bait.


Unless the Sox are going way over slot it take years to revamp a farm system.

Lundind1
09-16-2008, 01:53 PM
Why can't people just enjoy baseball, and enjoy having a first place team that really does (despite the grandstanding by some) have a legitimate chance at winning it all this year?

For crying out loud - reading some of the posts here, I can't tell if this is 2007 or 2008. It's amazing how crabb(pp)y our fans are in the heat of a pennant race.[/quote]

Thank you for voicing some of the same things that are in the head of many-a-sox fan from 2005 and now. All it takes is for this team to get hot and there isn't a team that would be them. This is 2008 and we may find ourselves looking back on this year with fond memories.

Lundind1
09-16-2008, 01:55 PM
Unless the Sox are going way over slot it take years to revamp a farm system.

That is why it is prudent to stick with these guys because anything can happen. We don't know it, but we could be on the verge of a legacy of great Sox teams. And it could be soon that the system produces some of our best players.

assrevolution
09-16-2008, 02:13 PM
Why can't people just enjoy baseball, and enjoy having a first place team that really does (despite the grandstanding by some) have a legitimate chance at winning it all this year?

For crying out loud - reading some of the posts here, I can't tell if this is 2007 or 2008. It's amazing how crabb(pp)y our fans are in the heat of a pennant race.

We all understand this is just baseball. There's no need to compare it to world events. People are just vocalizing their frustrations here.
I personally have a hard time watching a team that loses games in the manner that this team does. We've had the talent to win, and we haven't shown we can beat anybody consistently for over 2 yrs. 1st place is great, but we're fortunate that our division is so weak that we're there.

jabrch
09-16-2008, 02:14 PM
People are just vocalizing their frustrations here.

Which is both their right to do, as well as something good to do in the right context. But many are catstrophizing about a team that is in first place. There are even some people out there saying that this first place team can't beat anybody consistently.


we haven't shown we can beat anybody consistently for over 2 yrs.

And somehow we are in first place. Reconciling your opinion that we can't beat anybody consistently with the facts of the standings is difficult.

I am more than willing to disregard last year - it was (in my opinion) an anomoly surrounded by winning baseball on both sides. This is still a good team that has a very real shot at winning it all.

assrevolution
09-16-2008, 02:22 PM
And somehow we are in first place. Reconciling your opinion that we can't beat anybody consistently with the facts of the standings is difficult.

Sorry, I meant to write that we can't beat the good teams consistently with the way this team is built. The last two years (mid-'06 - present) have been completely disfunctional baseball.

assrevolution
09-16-2008, 02:25 PM
Which is both their right to do, as well as something good to do in the right context. But many are catstrophizing about a team that is in first place. There are even some people out there saying that this first place team can't beat anybody consistently.


I'm not giving up on the team or saying they won't win the division, but the pattern hasn't changed and nothing has been done to change it.

jabrch
09-16-2008, 02:36 PM
I'm not giving up on the team or saying they won't win the division, but the pattern hasn't changed and nothing has been done to change it.

I'm not sure what pattern you are talking about. But if you are saying we can't beat teams who are contenders consistently, I'd love to see the data you have to support that. I know we just won 2-3 vs LAA. I recall splitting a 4 game set vs Boston before losing 2-3. Yes - we didn't win a ton of games against Tampa this year - but who has? We swept the Cubs at home - and lost 3 there. We won 2-3 vs LAD. We have about split with Minny over the season. I feel like we are about a .500 team against good teams. How many good teams are going to be much better than that? If they are, they are either a GREAT team, or they are getting pasted by the lesser teams.

This team is in first place. You don't stumble into that just by luck. It doesn't happen just because your division struggles. It happens by winning baseball games over the course of a season - which is a factor of many different things, one is the quality of play on the field.

I know last night sucked - and people hurt. But if you look at the landscape we are in, it is pretty green right now. How many baseball teams have a better shot than us at making the playoffs? Maybe 5 in all of baseball?

Smile!

whitesox901
09-16-2008, 02:48 PM
Wasserman and Richard should NOT be pitching, why not throw out Meyers, Prinz and Bukvich while your at it

Nellie_Fox
09-16-2008, 02:51 PM
catstrophizingEven if I spot you the missing "a" I don't think that's a word. :?:

jabrch
09-16-2008, 03:04 PM
Even if I spot you the missing "a" I don't think that's a word. :?:

Point well taken...I completely made that one up. I kinda like it - even though it isn't a word.

Catastrophize [kat-uh-strof-ahyz]
1. To convert the otherwise mundane into a catastrophe
2. Senseless exaggeration of fact into paranoid fictions that may or may not represent reality

:-)

Seriously - thanks for correcting me - I believe I have used that "word" before in more formal settings and will take that out of my personal dictionary now that I know it isn't a real word. I always learn something here at WSI.

Nellie_Fox
09-16-2008, 03:06 PM
Point well taken...I completely made that one up. I kinda like it - even though it isn't a word.

Catastrophize [kat-uh-strof-ahyz]
1. To convert the otherwise mundane into a catastrophe
2. Senseless exaggeration of fact into paranoid fictions that may or may not represent reality

:-)

Seriously - thanks for correcting me - I believe I have used that "word" before in more formal settings and will take that out of my personal dictionary now that I know it isn't a real word. I always learn something here at WSI.I think I'd place the accent on the second syllable! :tongue:

jabrch
09-16-2008, 03:17 PM
I think I'd place the accent on the second syllable! :tongue:

I'd fix a few things.

Wouldn't it be

It wouldn't be [kat-uh-strof-ahyz]...it would be[kuh-tas-strof-ahyz]

Nellie_Fox
09-16-2008, 03:21 PM
I'd fix a few things.

Wouldn't it be

It wouldn't be [kat-uh-strof-ahyz]...it would be[kuh-tas-strof-ahyz]Yes. That's how it would be pronounced if it was a word. :redneck

jabrch
09-16-2008, 03:24 PM
Yes. That's how it would be pronounced if it was a word. :redneck

If I did it - here's how it happened?