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View Full Version : What could the Sox get for Paulie or Thome?


NLaloosh
09-15-2008, 02:13 PM
Anybody have any thoughts on what a legit return might be on either of these two if the Sox wanted to trade either in the off-season?

Marqhead
09-15-2008, 02:15 PM
We've got 13 games left. Can we at least wait until the end of the season before we talk about dumping our current roster?

TDog
09-15-2008, 02:15 PM
Anybody have any thoughts on what a legit return might be on either of these two if the Sox wanted to trade either in the off-season?

The point is moot.

eriqjaffe
09-15-2008, 02:32 PM
Anybody have any thoughts on what a legit return might be on either of these two if the Sox wanted to trade either in the off-season?http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/2843/ballbaglgepr4.jpg

scarsofthumper
09-15-2008, 02:34 PM
Eric Gagne

Optipessimism
09-15-2008, 02:35 PM
Probably not enough to justify trading either one of them. The problem is, the same thing holds true with Swisher, so if we want to open up CF for someone who isn't just mediocre or worse, we either have to trade Dye (no way) or bite the bullet and sell low on someone.

NLaloosh
09-15-2008, 03:04 PM
Probably not enough to justify trading either one of them. The problem is, the same thing holds true with Swisher, so if we want to open up CF for someone who isn't just mediocre or worse, we either have to trade Dye (no way) or bite the bullet and sell low on someone.

I agree. That's why I was pretty much assuming that we'd have the same kind of offense for another year.

Any way you look at it, there are still going to be quite a few old/slow players on the team.

Even if they sign Hudson he'll be 31 and isn't a leadoff type. They might as well hold onto Thome, Konerko(maybe he'll hit a ton again), Dye and Swisher(still young could get better).

I would see about trading for Roberts, Mora and Figgins(as a utility player). Other than Beckham, there isn't a propect that I would be afraid to trade.

The Immigrant
09-15-2008, 03:08 PM
Don't think - it can only hurt the ballclub.

Lefty34
09-15-2008, 04:28 PM
Anybody have any thoughts on what a legit return might be on either of these two if the Sox wanted to trade either in the off-season?

Pualie? You want to trade PK? But...but he was here in 2005! Remember '05? Remember? Championship....championsh...[sobbing]

turners56
09-15-2008, 04:47 PM
If the Angels can't re-sign Teixeira, we could possibly ship Konerko over there for a prospect or two. They've been wanting Konerko since 2005.

CashMan
09-15-2008, 05:36 PM
If the Angels can't re-sign Teixeira, we could possibly ship Konerko over there for a prospect or two. They've been wanting Konerko since 2005.


What part of Paulie's no-trade clause do people not get?

Daver
09-15-2008, 05:38 PM
What part of Paulie's no-trade clause do people not get?

Paul does not have a no trade clause, Jim does.

Sockinchisox
09-15-2008, 05:42 PM
Paul does not have a no trade clause, Jim does.

What about the 10-5?

FedEx227
09-15-2008, 05:43 PM
Paul does not have a no trade clause, Jim does.

Paul absolutely has a no-trade clause.
limited no-trade clause barring deals to 6 clubs without his permission (may not be traded without his permission after April 30, 2008, under right as 10-and-5 player)

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-white-sox.html

Daver
09-15-2008, 05:51 PM
What about the 10-5?

Paul absolutely has a no-trade clause.


http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-white-sox.html

That is not a clause, it is a right, a clause would have to be in his contract. Paul could have been traded in the first month of season, but not now because he earned the right, not because he has a contractual clause that precludes it.

munchman33
09-15-2008, 05:53 PM
or bite the bullet and sell low on someone.

If by selling low you mean admitting a tremendous mistake and selling Swisher for what he's really worth (a mid level prospect) instead of three high end prospects, then yes. Sell low. Please.

turners56
09-15-2008, 05:58 PM
What part of Paulie's no-trade clause do people not get?

Konerko can approve the trade, you'd never know.

2906
09-15-2008, 06:01 PM
You don't want to sell low on Swisher. This is the worst year of his career, and it was an adjustment year.

The prospects the Sox gave up weren't worth much, all the constant say-the-same-thing-in-every-thread-that-mentions-Swisher blathering aside.

Swisher, despite his bad year, has contributed to a team in 1st place on Sept. 15th. That's the goal of every season, to contend, not hoard prospects.

areilly
09-15-2008, 06:13 PM
Swisher, despite his bad year, has contributed to a team in 1st place on Sept. 15th.

So have Juan Uribe and Boone Logan. Just because a guy was there doesn't mean he unquestionably deserved to be.

munchman33
09-15-2008, 06:15 PM
So have Juan Uribe and Boone Logan. Just because a guy was there doesn't mean he unquestionably deserved to be.

:kneeslap:

btrain929
09-15-2008, 06:46 PM
You don't want to sell low on Swisher. This is the worst year of his career, and it was an adjustment year.

The prospects the Sox gave up weren't worth much, all the constant say-the-same-thing-in-every-thread-that-mentions-Swisher blathering aside.

Swisher, despite his bad year, has contributed to a team in 1st place on Sept. 15th. That's the goal of every season, to contend, not hoard prospects.

Bold 1: Completely agree.
Bold 2: Complete disagree. Sweeney wasn't worth much, but Gio and DLS definitely had good value.

slavko
09-15-2008, 07:00 PM
A nice charge to the team's checking account every two weeks to pay for the salary we'd have to eat.

2906
09-15-2008, 07:17 PM
So have Juan Uribe and Boone Logan. Just because a guy was there doesn't mean he unquestionably deserved to be.
Logan you can have, although he did have a good first half.

As for Uribe, how about that defense huh? Or are you an offense only guy like the clueless knee slapper in this thread?

2906
09-15-2008, 07:18 PM
Bold 2: Complete disagree. Sweeney wasn't worth much, but Gio and DLS definitely had good value.

Their value is about what they got in return, contrary to what Swisher's Henchman will have you believe.

Daver
09-15-2008, 07:23 PM
but Gio and DLS definitely had good value.

Compared to what?

Unproven minor league pitching has very little actual value unless you are getting a lot of it.

Blueprint1
09-15-2008, 09:07 PM
http://www.funnyplace.org/stream.php?id=8136

Rockabilly
09-15-2008, 09:12 PM
Lets talk about the offseason

After we win the world series

munchman33
09-15-2008, 10:47 PM
Compared to what?

Unproven minor league pitching has very little actual value unless you are getting a lot of it.

There are a lot of baseball people that would completely disagree with you.

areilly
09-15-2008, 11:02 PM
Logan you can have, although he did have a good first half.

As for Uribe, how about that defense huh? Or are you an offense only guy like the clueless knee slapper in this thread?

He's worked out fine at third where Plan D's go, but I'm not sure Juan's defense makes up for his lame bat the way it used to. Those automatic 0-2 counts are fine when he's playing at the level he's capable of, but they sure get old when the guy is airmailing throws into the stands from second.

Nellie_Fox
09-15-2008, 11:21 PM
There are a lot of baseball people that would completely disagree with you.Here we go again. DLS, Hall of Fame lock.

Rocky Soprano
09-15-2008, 11:39 PM
There are a lot of baseball people that would completely disagree with you.

You are not baseball people.

I wonder what we could get if we included munchman in any trade.

Daver
09-15-2008, 11:55 PM
There are a lot of baseball people that would completely disagree with you.

Care to name them?

Zisk77
09-16-2008, 08:26 AM
Swisher is just the latest whipping boy for the terminally disgruntled. If you listen to them we'd have trade, DFA ed, or waived the following already this year:

Dotel
Uribe
Thome
Konerko
Swisher
Dye
Cabrera
Wise
Thornton
Griffey

I'll go out on a limb and say that the Swisher trade will look good in the not so distant future. He'll bounce back next year and get some big hits again this year.

areilly
09-16-2008, 09:01 AM
I'll go out on a limb and say that the Swisher trade will look good in the not so distant future. He'll bounce back next year and get some big hits again this year.

Bounce back to what, exactly? .250?

GAsoxfan
09-16-2008, 09:13 AM
I'll go out on a limb and say that the Swisher trade will look good in the not so distant future. He'll bounce back next year and get some big hits again this year.

I hope you're right, because the .199 BA & .305 OBP since the All-Star break has been brutal.

palehozenychicty
09-16-2008, 09:21 AM
I agree. That's why I was pretty much assuming that we'd have the same kind of offense for another year.

Any way you look at it, there are still going to be quite a few old/slow players on the team.

Even if they sign Hudson he'll be 31 and isn't a leadoff type. They might as well hold onto Thome, Konerko(maybe he'll hit a ton again), Dye and Swisher(still young could get better).

I would see about trading for Roberts, Mora and Figgins(as a utility player). Other than Beckham, there isn't a propect that I would be afraid to trade.


I'm not giving up on Swisher by any means, although he's been abysmal, but I'm tired of hearing this rationale. He's going to be 28 next year. Yet Anderson doesn't deserve to see the light of day on this team and he is who he is, despite having nearly a quarter of the at-bats. His attitude wasn't good at the beginning, but he should be playing a lot more now, without Quentin and Junior being molasses out in center and the plate. Swisher had one good year in Oakland (2006), and even then his batting stats are barely above average. Otherwise, he's just a smaller Giambi post-steroids era, with fewer walks, more strikeouts, and far less power. I like Nick and his spirit, but maybe he should grow the hair back. It can't hurt.

Zisk77
09-16-2008, 09:41 AM
Bounce back to what, exactly? .250?


.250 - .290 30 hrs. 80 + RBI's and good ob avg.

Craig Grebeck
09-16-2008, 09:48 AM
Bounce back to what, exactly? .250?
.250-.260 with a great OBP and solid power.

Lefty34
09-16-2008, 12:27 PM
Compared to what?

Unproven minor league pitching has very little actual value unless you are getting a lot of it.

There are a lot of baseball people that would completely disagree with you.

I have to go with Daver on this (good Lord I cannot believe I am doing this): there is a definite higher rate of attrition of pitching prospects as opposed to other prospects. Thus, you would need more pitching prospects to equal the potential value of hitting prospects due to the higher attrition rate of the former.

NLaloosh
09-16-2008, 12:29 PM
Personally, I'm a fan of Anderson, Thome, Swisher and Konerko. I'm not dying to get rid of any of them.

But, I think one thing that all Sox fans can agree on is that this team needs some more versatility,speed and fundamental execution in the lineup.

How to get there from here is the question. Due to contract restrictions there are probably only a few changes that could be made without eating a ton of salary which we know will not happen.

So, the question is how to go about it. My guess is that for 2009 trading Konerko would probably help the most IF we could get someone to take his entire contract.

I think we can live with Thome for one more year and platoon him a little more. Swisher is not only young but a verstaile player that can play all 3 OF positions and 1B. Plus, we know that he'll always have a pretty good OBP. Add his team attitude in and it's pretty valuable and worth holding onto. He's not that expensive either.

If we can move Paulie and pick up the kind of players that Ozzie wants for 2B and 3B the lineup would be excellent.

Add a quality starting pitcher and this team could be the best in the division next year. With KW's history, it seems very doable to me.

I'm quite hopeful for 2009.

34 Inch Stick
09-16-2008, 12:48 PM
If the Angels can't re-sign Teixeira, we could possibly ship Konerko over there for a prospect or two. They've been wanting Konerko since 2005.

They would probably give you Mathews Jr. I don't know if you want that.

Lundind1
09-16-2008, 01:31 PM
I say we could trade any of these guys to the Dodgers for a starting pitcher and the 1959 world series trophy.:wink:

WhiteSox5187
09-16-2008, 01:44 PM
Care to name them?
I know that my dad has talked to a high level person for the Reds who thought good things about Gio. He said that though to my dad in response to a question my dad asked and since I'm not a reporter I doubt he felt he needed to be guarded so I don't want to quote him directly.

Having said that though, I don't think Swisher is going to be hitting in the .220s for the rest of his career with the White Sox. Trading him now would be a mistake. But I do think we gave up an awful lot for him.

Daver
09-17-2008, 08:53 PM
Care to name them?

Hey Munch, I'm still waiting.

munchman33
09-17-2008, 08:57 PM
Hey Munch, I'm still waiting.

I don't know the names of every general manager in baseball, but I'm pretty sure not one of them would say


Unproven minor league pitching has very little actual value unless you are getting a lot of it.

You continue to associate unproven with untalented. Talented minor leaguers have lots of value, some more than mlb talent.

getonbckthr
09-17-2008, 09:04 PM
If PK would allow trade and Texiera doesn't resign. PK/Fields for Figgins/Mathews.

munchman33
09-17-2008, 09:16 PM
If PK would allow trade and Texiera doesn't resign. PK/Fields for Figgins/Mathews.

I'd rather just sign Figgins, considering he's a free agent.

getonbckthr
09-17-2008, 09:18 PM
I'd rather just sign Figgins, considering he's a free agent.
No he isn't.:scratch:

Daver
09-17-2008, 09:19 PM
I don't know the names of every general manager in baseball, but I'm pretty sure not one of them would say



You continue to associate unproven with untalented. Talented minor leaguers have lots of value, some more than mlb talent.

Munch, take the time to actually talk to some scouts, that is the only way you are ever going to learn the value of minor league players, it's not even close to what you think it is. Joe Borchard has a ton of talent, it just doesn't work well against good pitching.

kittle42
09-17-2008, 09:34 PM
Chone Figgins is NOT a free agent next season. He is arbitration eligible.

http://rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=MLB&id=3525

munchman33
09-17-2008, 10:01 PM
Munch, take the time to actually talk to some scouts, that is the only way you are ever going to learn the value of minor league players, it's not even close to what you think it is. Joe Borchard has a ton of talent, it just doesn't work well against good pitching.

Hey! Using the over the top exception as the rule is usually my m. o.....

munchman33
09-17-2008, 10:01 PM
Chone Figgins is NOT a free agent next season. He is arbitration eligible.

http://rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=MLB&id=3525

oops. :redface:

Daver
09-17-2008, 10:05 PM
Hey! Using the over the top exception as the rule is usually my m. o.....

OK substitute Brandon McCarthy.

JUribe1989
09-18-2008, 11:33 AM
Maybe someone could sign and trade Jay Gibbons. Or like Jay Payton. Maybe even Brant Brown.

Lefty34
09-18-2008, 11:39 AM
Maybe someone could sign and trade Jay Gibbons. Or like Jay Payton. Maybe even Brant Brown.

And this should just...about...do it....

jdm2662
09-18-2008, 11:57 AM
maybe even brant brown.

OH NO! Noooooooooooooooo!

SSrep
09-18-2008, 12:12 PM
Bounce back to what, exactly? .250?

Bounce back to being an all star like he was.........

Law11
09-18-2008, 12:44 PM
They could get them each White Sox rocking chairs and walking sticks.

or candlesticks... Candlesticks make a nice gift.. Alright lets get two...

Nellie_Fox
09-18-2008, 01:25 PM
Maybe someone could sign and trade Jay Gibbons. Or like Jay Payton. Maybe even Brant Brown.This isn't the NBA.

areilly
09-18-2008, 01:41 PM
Bounce back to being an all star like he was.........

Swisher has never been on an All-Star team.

WhiteSox5187
09-19-2008, 03:11 AM
Hey Munch, I'm still waiting.
If you'd want i can PM you the name of at least one baseball person who thought very highly of Gio and thought DLS could be quite good too.

Nellie_Fox
09-19-2008, 11:46 AM
If you'd want i can PM you the name of at least one baseball person who thought very highly of Gio and thought DLS could be quite good too.That's not quite the same as assuring that he was a Hall of Famer in waiting.

Craig Grebeck
09-19-2008, 12:12 PM
If you'd want i can PM you the name of at least one baseball person who thought very highly of Gio and thought DLS could be quite good too.
There are plenty. Doesn't make it right necessarily.

NLaloosh
09-21-2008, 07:57 PM
Do you think the Sox could get Figgins and Shields for Konerko and Fields?

I'd love to see that. Didn't mean to rhyme.

Frater Perdurabo
09-21-2008, 08:15 PM
Do you think the Sox could get Figgins and Shields for Konerko and Fields?

I'd love to see that. Didn't mean to rhyme.

You're a poet and didn't know it. :tongue:

I'd do that deal. I'm not sure the Angels would, though. Then there's Paulie's 10-5 rights; he'd have to waive them.

Such a deal would put Swisher at first, speed up the lineup, get BA into CF and bolster the bullpen. Obviously the Sox would lose a likely rebound year from Paulie, but I think Alexei's emergence as a power threat (20 HRs in less than a full season) and Quentin's return can mostly cover for it.

This bullpen would be scary-good:

9th inning: Jenks
8th inning: Shields or Linebrink
7th inning: Linebrink or Shields
6th inning: Thornton or Dotel
5th inning: MacDougal or Logan

How often do you need a reliever in the 5th inning? Not often at all. MacDougal and Logan, both of whom have great stuff but erratic command, would not be overexposed. Figure Clayton Richard for long relief and a starter to replace Contreras, and the pitching staff is set.

Craig Grebeck
09-21-2008, 09:08 PM
I highly doubt either team would do that deal.

NLaloosh
09-22-2008, 11:50 AM
If the Angels don't sign Tex I'd bet they would be interested. I hear they want to move Figgins due to personality issues and Moreno has said that he won't raise payroll.

They have a bunch of free agents. If they re-sign KRod and not Tex it would make a lot of sense. They add power at both corners without adding payroll.

Shields and Figgins make less than Konerko.

Craig Grebeck
09-22-2008, 12:14 PM
If the Angels don't sign Tex I'd bet they would be interested. I hear they want to move Figgins due to personality issues and Moreno has said that he won't raise payroll.

They have a bunch of free agents. If they re-sign KRod and not Tex it would make a lot of sense. They add power at both corners without adding payroll.

Shields and Figgins make less than Konerko.
No, it still doesn't make sense.