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View Full Version : Mora and Roberts for 2009.....


NLaloosh
09-15-2008, 01:14 PM
Roberts signed for one more year at $ 8 mil.
Mora signed for one more year at $ 9 mil.

I'd love to see the Sox trade for them both with the rebuilding O's. Then, they could re-sign both, either or take the sweet draft picks.

What do you think the Sox would have to give up? What would you be willing to give up?

I'm ready to give up on Fields right now. I'd throw him in with a few other prospects/young players.

What about Poreda ? Could they get a deal done without him?

Craig Grebeck
09-15-2008, 01:16 PM
Roberts signed for one more year at $ 8 mil.
Mora signed for one more year at $ 9 mil.

I'd love to see the Sox trade for them both with the rebuilding O's. Then, they could re-sign both, either or take the sweet draft picks.

What do you think the Sox would have to give up? What would you be willing to give up?

I'm ready to give up on Fields right now. I'd throw him in with a few other prospects/young players.

What about Poreda ? Could they get a deal done without him?
What use do we have for Melvin Mora? Dude is 36.

As previously discussed, I'd take Hudson over Roberts -- purely because signing a FA >>>>>>> trading for a player.

munchman33
09-15-2008, 01:41 PM
What use do we have for Melvin Mora? Dude is 36.

As previously discussed, I'd take Hudson over Roberts -- purely because signing a FA >>>>>>> trading for a player.

Yeah, but Roberts is a leadoff hitter (and one of the better ones at that), which we sorely need. Not to mention, high draft picks in 2010 are just as valuable, if not more valuable, than anyone we'd send the O's (with a few exceptions). Roberts would undoubtedly be a class A free agent.

Mora has value off the bench, if we can get the O's to take a lot of his salary.

Tragg
09-15-2008, 01:49 PM
Roberts signed for one more year at $ 8 mil.
Mora signed for one more year at $ 9 mil.

I'd love to see the Sox trade for them both with the rebuilding O's. Then, they could re-sign both, either or take the sweet draft picks.

What do you think the Sox would have to give up? What would you be willing to give up?

I'm ready to give up on Fields right now. I'd throw him in with a few other prospects/young players.

What about Poreda ? Could they get a deal done without him?
Trade our best products for 1 year rents? Forget that. Wait a year and sign them as free agents.

munchman33
09-15-2008, 01:51 PM
Trade our best products for 1 year rents? Forget that. Wait a year and sign them as free agents.

So we either trade our now prospects or lose our future early round prospects.

If we trade prospects now, we keep our picks and gain picks when the players leave. And we have them for next year, while our window is still open.

btrain929
09-15-2008, 01:52 PM
Yeah, but Roberts is a leadoff hitter (and one of the better ones at that), which we sorely need. Not to mention, high draft picks in 2010 are just as valuable, if not more valuable, than anyone we'd send the O's (with a few exceptions). Roberts would undoubtedly be a class A free agent.

Mora has value off the bench, if we can get the O's to take a lot of his salary.

Have you seen his numbers this year? If he's on our bench, I'd LOVE to know who's at 3B.

And to get a team to take a lot of his salary, you have to give them better prospects in return.

Roberts maybe, Mora no. More than likely no to each, especially if we're serious about O-Dog.

Craig Grebeck
09-15-2008, 02:03 PM
Yeah, but Roberts is a leadoff hitter (and one of the better ones at that), which we sorely need. Not to mention, high draft picks in 2010 are just as valuable, if not more valuable, than anyone we'd send the O's (with a few exceptions). Roberts would undoubtedly be a class A free agent.

Mora has value off the bench, if we can get the O's to take a lot of his salary.
No thanks. Sign Hudson and let him leadoff. Roberts is good, but not worth the toll it will take to our system. The O's would probably rather pay Mora to do well on their bench than ours. They could very well be a team that wins 80-85 games next year.

NLaloosh
09-15-2008, 02:09 PM
No way will Hudson be worth the contract that he'll get - which will be big. He's not a leadoff hitter. Doesn't steal bases. Not much power. Not a hig haverage or high on base percentage. And, worst of all, likely to play about 130 games.

Roberts would do much more for the Sox and you could sign him long for a few more years or let him go. The dude and hit, run and field. I know the Sox want him and in a walk year the price should be reasonable.

Mora has been about the hottest hitter in baseball during the second half. It wouldn't hurt to take him on for one year. Beckham may end up at 3rd base.

Craig Grebeck
09-15-2008, 02:23 PM
No way will Hudson be worth the contract that he'll get - which will be big. He's not a leadoff hitter. Doesn't steal bases. Not much power. Not a hig haverage or high on base percentage. And, worst of all, likely to play about 130 games.

Roberts would do much more for the Sox and you could sign him long for a few more years or let him go. The dude and hit, run and field. I know the Sox want him and in a walk year the price should be reasonable.

Mora has been about the hottest hitter in baseball during the second half. It wouldn't hurt to take him on for one year. Beckham may end up at 3rd base.
1. While Hudson has benefited from the NL West, he is no slouch offensively.
2. Roberts will not be cheap -- as I mentioned before it is not inconceivable for the O's to compete for the wild card these next 2-3 seasons.
3. Beckham should not and will not end up at 3rd.

Perhaps the only guy I'd be willing to give up a lot for would be Adrian Beltre.

Optipessimism
09-15-2008, 02:28 PM
No thanks. Sign Hudson and let him leadoff. Roberts is good, but not worth the toll it will take to our system. The O's would probably rather pay Mora to do well on their bench than ours. They could very well be a team that wins 80-85 games next year.

If we sign Hudson then we lose a 20-something overall first round pick. If we could instead make a deal for both Roberts and Mora, taking on all that salary, we'd probably get Roberts for less than he'd normally cost. Both are nice stop-gap solutions, and Roberts would be another Type A FA. Plus, considering the Sox get either a late first or a supplemental first for Cabrera next year, having two high picks like that would allow the team to make one of their usual "safe" picks and also take a chance on a guy who might slip due to signability concerns. It would be nice to see the team go that route for once.

I think this deal would work very well for both sides. If the Sox could get the deal for Mora + Roberts done with Fields + Getz + Logan/RP prospect + lower-end prospect like Sergio Miranda (who has been passed up it seems) or Broadway, then the Sox fill two holes while the Orioles fill out a starting IF and have even more pitching depth. Actually, depending on how much one likes Fields versus Sean Gallagher, that package might even be better than what the Cubs gave up for Harden and Gaudin, and that package doesn't hurt the Sox farm much at all.

If the Sox do go the free agent route though, I'd like to see a bit of a splurge. If you're going to go hard after Hudson, also go hard after any other Type A free agents you want. Once you lose your first and second round picks, it doesn't really matter anymore because every other compensation-worthy talent you sign ends up bringing his old team supplemental round picks that don't come out of your draft.

Craig Grebeck
09-15-2008, 02:37 PM
If we sign Hudson then we lose a 20-something overall first round pick. If we could instead make a deal for both Roberts and Mora, taking on all that salary, we'd probably get Roberts for less than he'd normally cost. Both are nice stop-gap solutions, and Roberts would be another Type A FA. Plus, considering the Sox get either a late first or a supplemental first for Cabrera next year, having two high picks like that would allow the team to make one of their usual "safe" picks and also take a chance on a guy who might slip due to signability concerns. It would be nice to see the team go that route for once.

I think this deal would work very well for both sides. If the Sox could get the deal for Mora + Roberts done with Fields + Getz + Logan/RP prospect + lower-end prospect like Sergio Miranda (who has been passed up it seems) or Broadway, then the Sox fill two holes while the Orioles fill out a starting IF and have even more pitching depth. Actually, depending on how much one likes Fields versus Sean Gallagher, that package might even be better than what the Cubs gave up for Harden and Gaudin, and that package doesn't hurt the Sox farm much at all.

If the Sox do go the free agent route though, I'd like to see a bit of a splurge. If you're going to go hard after Hudson, also go hard after any other Type A free agents you want. Once you lose your first and second round picks, it doesn't really matter anymore because every other compensation-worthy talent you sign ends up bringing his old team supplemental round picks that don't come out of your draft.
You have your facts wrong. Cabrera will net us a first round pick in 2009 -- not 2010. If we lose a draft pick signing Hudson, I'm not going to cry about it. He's better than Linebrink and we'll still have the pick Cabrera netted us.

That package will not get Roberts -- no chance.

Also, the Orioles are in a decent spot to be competitive. I doubt you'll see them trying to sell off anyone but Mora.

Optipessimism
09-15-2008, 02:48 PM
You have your facts wrong. Cabrera will net us a first round pick in 2009 -- not 2010. If we lose a draft pick signing Hudson, I'm not going to cry about it. He's better than Linebrink and we'll still have the pick Cabrera netted us.

That package will not get Roberts -- no chance.

Also, the Orioles are in a decent spot to be competitive. I doubt you'll see them trying to sell off anyone but Mora.
I have facts wrong? When did I say that Cabrera would net a pick in 2010?

I said Cabrera nets us a late first round pick or a supplemental first round pick AND we get a first round pick anyway. 1 + 1 = 2 picks.

You have no idea what the Orioles think of Fields. You must assume they don't like him, but perhaps their FO would pay more attention to the potential Josh showed in 2007 instead of his injury-plagued 2008? Perhaps the only reason we couldn't trade for Roberts over this last offseason is because our GM didn't want to give up Fields? You can't just assume that because you don't like him no one else does.

The Orioles are in no way competitive. The Yankees will splurge in free agency and Hank is already talking about making CC the richest pitcher ever or something like that. The Red Sox certainly won't be quiet, and Tampa Bay is going to have David Price in their rotation all year PLUS some money to spend from a certain increase in ticket sales combined with players retiring and playoff revenue. And then there's Toronto, with something called a starting rotation, and they'll probably be pegged for fourth. The O's are headed for nowhere but the cellar in 2009.

Craig Grebeck
09-15-2008, 02:52 PM
I have facts wrong? When did I say that Cabrera would net a pick in 2010?

I said Cabrera nets us a late first round pick or a supplemental first round pick AND we get a first round pick anyway. 1 + 1 = 2 picks.

You have no idea what the Orioles think of Fields. You must assume they don't like him, but perhaps their FO would pay more attention to the potential Josh showed in 2007 instead of his injury-plagued 2008?

The Orioles are in no way competitive. The Yankees will splurge in free agency and Hank is already talking about making CC the richest pitcher ever or something like that. The Red Sox certainly won't be quiet, and Tampa Bay is going to have David Price in their rotation all year PLUS some money to spend from a certain increase in ticket sales combined with players retiring and playoff revenue. And then there's Toronto, with something called a starting rotation, and they'll probably be pegged for fourth. The O's are headed for nowhere but the cellar in 2009.
It's fairly likely the O's sign Teixeira (or at least a good possibility). Even if they don't, they've got tremendous up-the-middle talent in Jones, Roberts, and Wieters -- flanked by Markakis and Scott. They've also got one of the best pitching prospects in baseball on the way in Chris Tillman. It's not inconceivable that they compete in 1-3 seasons.

Edit: i mis-read your assertion on the draft, but I still would rather the Sox just sign Hudson.

Optipessimism
09-15-2008, 03:03 PM
It's fairly likely the O's sign Teixeira (or at least a good possibility). Even if they don't, they've got tremendous up-the-middle talent in Jones, Roberts, and Wieters -- flanked by Markakis and Scott. They've also got one of the best pitching prospects in baseball on the way in Chris Tillman. It's not inconceivable that they compete in 1-3 seasons.
That number will be closer to three years than one. Yes, the O's have some very good prospects, but Tampa Bay has almost an entire team full of once-elite prospects that are now major contributors, and there are more on the way (Beckham is coming in a few years, and they've got Reid Brignac to hold them over until he arrives, and of course tons of pitching). Don't forget about how great Garrett Olson was going to be, or how Daniel Cabrera was going to figure it out and dominate the league. The O's have been a **** team for a long time, and playing in the best division in baseball doesn't help them.

Roberts is a FA after 2009 anyway. You think he'd really stick around and continue to rebuild for nothing while in his prime? He's as good as gone.

Texeira - there are rumors from O's fans that he might go there. Typical Boras. Overplay the sentimental "hometown team" bull**** into an enormous contract offer from a dog**** team that understands they have to overpay, and then at the last minute sign on with the contending team that throws the most cash at him. If Tex signs with Baltimore I'll head down to Cicero, buy a bag of crack, fly to Baltimore, and smoke a pipe with Andy MacPhail, because in order to sign Tex he's going to have to inflate an offer twice over, once to get the good teams to pony up more than they wanted and again to get Tex to stay away from them.

asindc
09-15-2008, 03:09 PM
That number will be closer to three years than one. Yes, the O's have some very good prospects, but Tampa Bay has almost an entire team full of once-elite prospects that are now major contributors, and there are more on the way (Beckham is coming in a few years, and they've got Reid Brignac to hold them over until he arrives, and of course tons of pitching). Don't forget about how great Garrett Olson was going to be, or how Daniel Cabrera was going to figure it out and dominate the league. The O's have been a **** team for a long time, and playing in the best division in baseball doesn't help them.

Roberts is a FA after 2009 anyway. You think he'd really stick around and continue to rebuild for nothing while in his prime? He's as good as gone.

Texeira - there are rumors from O's fans that he might go there. Typical Boras. Overplay the sentimental "hometown team" bull**** into an enormous contract offer from a dog**** team that understands they have to overpay, and then at the last minute sign on with the contending team that throws the most cash at him. If Tex signs with Baltimore I'll head down to Cicero, buy a bag of crack, fly to Baltimore, and smoke a pipe with Andy MacPhail, because in order to sign Tex he's going to have to inflate an offer twice over, once to get the good teams to pony up more than they wanted and again to get Tex to stay away from them.

You might want to prepare yourself to smoke a rock with MacPhail, because Texeira might give the O's a hometown discount. How much, nobody knows yet, but it is a distinct possibility. They will certainly have first dibs at him, even before LAAAAA, so it is not unreasonable to expect him to end up in Baltimore.

Marqhead
09-15-2008, 03:09 PM
Roberts is a FA after 2009 anyway. You think he'd really stick around and continue to rebuild for nothing while in his prime? He's as good as gone.

Texeira - there are rumors from O's fans that he might go there. Typical Boras. Overplay the sentimental "hometown team" bull**** into an enormous contract offer from a dog**** team that understands they have to overpay, and then at the last minute sign on with the contending team that throws the most cash at him. If Tex signs with Baltimore I'll head down to Cicero, buy a bag of crack, fly to Baltimore, and smoke a pipe with Andy MacPhail, because in order to sign Tex he's going to have to inflate an offer twice over, once to get the good teams to pony up more than they wanted and again to get Tex to stay away from them.

We're going to hold you to this :tongue:.

I think the hometown team factor is overhyped as well. He'll end up in pinstripes or on the west coast.

NLaloosh
09-15-2008, 03:11 PM
Andy MacPhail wanted a complete rebuild last year but they didn't want to alienate the fan base so they kept a few vets.

I'll bet both Mora and Roberts will be gone this offseason. They're pitching is not close to being ready to compete. They are several years away atleast in that division.

Optipessimism
09-15-2008, 03:25 PM
You might want to prepare yourself to smoke a rock with MacPhail, because Texeira might give the O's a hometown discount. How much, nobody knows yet, but it is a distinct possibility. They will certainly have first dibs at him, even before LAAAAA, so it is not unreasonable to expect him to end up in Baltimore.
Tex is just playing the game and trying to get as many teams to bid for him as possible. He's said positive things about playing for the Orioles, but he also said he wanted to stay in Texas forever (I guess the love wasn't reciprocal since Tex wanted a 10 year deal) and now he's all talking about how much he'd love to stay in Anaheim. If Cubs didn't have DLee he'd love them too, and he loves the Yankees and the Red Sox I'm sure just as much. He's really a loving kind of guy.

Craig Grebeck
09-15-2008, 05:57 PM
That number will be closer to three years than one. Yes, the O's have some very good prospects, but Tampa Bay has almost an entire team full of once-elite prospects that are now major contributors, and there are more on the way (Beckham is coming in a few years, and they've got Reid Brignac to hold them over until he arrives, and of course tons of pitching). Don't forget about how great Garrett Olson was going to be, or how Daniel Cabrera was going to figure it out and dominate the league. The O's have been a **** team for a long time, and playing in the best division in baseball doesn't help them.

Roberts is a FA after 2009 anyway. You think he'd really stick around and continue to rebuild for nothing while in his prime? He's as good as gone.

Texeira - there are rumors from O's fans that he might go there. Typical Boras. Overplay the sentimental "hometown team" bull**** into an enormous contract offer from a dog**** team that understands they have to overpay, and then at the last minute sign on with the contending team that throws the most cash at him. If Tex signs with Baltimore I'll head down to Cicero, buy a bag of crack, fly to Baltimore, and smoke a pipe with Andy MacPhail, because in order to sign Tex he's going to have to inflate an offer twice over, once to get the good teams to pony up more than they wanted and again to get Tex to stay away from them.
Completely off topic but Reid Brignac is TERRIBLE. Dude put up a .299 OBP in AAA.

I'll take you up on that Tex offer. I doubt the Angels want to give him a ton of money, on top of trying to re-sign Frankie and others. Chances are they'll hand over the job to Kendry Morales.