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Bucky F. Dent
09-12-2008, 11:17 AM
With last night's save, K-Rod (the biggest :dtroll: in the majors), is tied with Bobby Thigpen for most saves in a season. I am not a violent person by nature, but K-Rod needs to suffer a season ending injury tonight.

102605
09-12-2008, 11:23 AM
Why the hate? The guy is GREAT. Records are made to be broken. I'm surprised 57 lasted this long.

guillensdisciple
09-12-2008, 11:24 AM
I don't hope for an injury but the record shouldn't go to the biggest a-hole in baseball.

Mod Edit: I think you meant to type *******. In the future please do so...

102605
09-12-2008, 11:26 AM
I don't hope for an injury but the record shouldn't go to the biggest a-hole in baseball.

Because he pumps his fists and jumps up and down everytime he shuts the White Sox down?

hi im skot
09-12-2008, 11:27 AM
Because he pumps his fists and jumps up and down everytime he shuts the White Sox down?

K-Rod is a douche no matter what team he pitches against.

Act like you've been there before.

102605
09-12-2008, 11:34 AM
K-Rod is a douche no matter what team he pitches against.

Act like you've been there before.

Act like I've been there before? Ok :scratch:

How about you make a real arguement against the guy other than calling him 4th grader names.

hi im skot
09-12-2008, 11:38 AM
Act like I've been there before? Ok :scratch:

How about you make a real arguement against the guy other than calling him 4th grader names.

Perhaps I should have said "He should act like he's been there before."

I don't respect a guy hot dogging it on the field acting like he won game seven of the World Series after each and every save.

He's a hell of a pitcher, but I'm sick of his antics.

gn2727
09-12-2008, 11:51 AM
He is a douche no doubt. But with the way our bullpen has been I doubt any of you would mind his antics on our team.

I think he will finish with 62-65 saves........

PatK
09-12-2008, 11:54 AM
K-Rod is a douche no matter what team he pitches against.

Act like you've been there before.

He has. In 2002, he was the youngest pitcher to win a game in the World Series.

Eddo144
09-12-2008, 11:55 AM
Why the hate? The guy is GREAT. Records are made to be broken. I'm surprised 57 lasted this long.
No, he's not "GREAT", he's adequate. He rarely pitches unless it's a save situation. He is also going to set the record for save opportunities (which is held by Thigpen also, showing how meaningless this record actually is).

If you gave Jenks, Nathan, Rivera, Soria, Ryan, Papelbon, or countless other relief pitchers 65+ save opportunities, they too would be breaking Thigpen's record this year. The saves record is more indicative of a team that wins a lot of games, but doesn't blow them out, and has a manager who will consistently bring in the same pitcher to pitch the final out of said games.

SoxFan78
09-12-2008, 11:56 AM
I just want one time when a hitter hits a walk off hit/home run off of him to stand at home and do all of his antics, lets see how he reacts.

hi im skot
09-12-2008, 12:01 PM
He has. In 2002, he was the youngest pitcher to win a game in the World Series.

Right. So you'd think he'd keep the silliness to a minimum after a save against a team like Oakland or Seattle...

102605
09-12-2008, 12:25 PM
No, he's not "GREAT", he's adequate.

Adequate? :o:

Your credibility just went down the flusher.

The guy is GREAT.

ktssox
09-12-2008, 12:26 PM
He is a douche no doubt. But with the way our bullpen has been I doubt any of you would mind his antics on our team.


I would mind. No thank you. People always say this. There are plenty of "great" players I wouldn't want on the Sox - KRod, Manny, Bonds, Zambrano, to name a few. I want to actually like the players I root for. Sometimes, good play cannot make up for extreme douchebaggery.

102605
09-12-2008, 12:26 PM
I would mind. No thank you. People always say this. There are plenty of "great" players I wouldn't want on the Sox - KRod, Manny, Bonds, Zambrano, to name a few. I want to actually like the players I root for. Sometimes, good play cannot make up for extreme douchebaggery.

How much did you love AJ when he played for the Twins?

LoveYourSuit
09-12-2008, 12:32 PM
Perhaps I should have said "He should act like he's been there before."

I don't respect a guy hot dogging it on the field acting like he won game seven of the World Series after each and every save.

He's a hell of a pitcher, but I'm sick of his antics.


Look around, MLB is full of these kind of guys.

The guy was a major reason the Angels won a World Series and is perhaps today's best closer in the game. So yes, "he has been there before."

LoveYourSuit
09-12-2008, 12:36 PM
I would mind. No thank you. People always say this. There are plenty of "great" players I wouldn't want on the Sox - KRod, Manny, Bonds, Zambrano, to name a few. I want to actually like the players I root for. Sometimes, good play cannot make up for extreme douchebaggery.

Don't be crapping us (in the words of Boers and Bernstein). Winning championships or being great makes you like whoever wears your team's jersey. Rodman, AJ, Carl Everett just to name a few.

"I want to like the players I root for," give me a break. :rolleyes:

Win is all I care about.

Michstate45
09-12-2008, 12:47 PM
No, he's not "GREAT", he's adequate. He rarely pitches unless it's a save situation. He is also going to set the record for save opportunities (which is held by Thigpen also, showing how meaningless this record actually is).

If you gave Jenks, Nathan, Rivera, Soria, Ryan, Papelbon, or countless other relief pitchers 65+ save opportunities, they too would be breaking Thigpen's record this year. The saves record is more indicative of a team that wins a lot of games, but doesn't blow them out, and has a manager who will consistently bring in the same pitcher to pitch the final out of said games.


This is spot on. The record doesn't mean much. In an era where closers are now used for only one inning (and sometimes less than that), and can be used almost every day, this is a record that will probably be topped a few more times.

The consecutive saves record is WAY more impressive than Thigpen's record

As for the antics, get used to it. These 1-inning pitchers get so emotionally fired up out there, it's alomst like the guys chug three red bulls and then go wrestle a bear. You see more and more pitchers these days doing the antics. In my opinion, who cares?? Baseball, and their fans, have bigger issues then some fist pumps after saving the win for your team.

The Milkman
09-12-2008, 12:53 PM
Look around, MLB is full of these kind of guys.

The guy was a major reason the Angels won a World Series and is perhaps today's best closer in the game. So yes, "he has been there before."

Yes, he's been there before. He doesn't act like it.
If I had a no-consequences opportunity to "Ligue" someone, it would definitely be K-Rod.

Zisk77
09-12-2008, 01:08 PM
How much did you love AJ when he played for the Twins?

I understand the sediment here but i don't think the analogy is appropriate. A.J. does stuff to annoy the opponent and may have OCD, but he doesn't do things to show people up or intentionally call attention to himself evertime he succeeds.

A.J. is the prototypical guy u hate until he is on your side and I don't just mean that from a fans perpective. i have played against guys like A. j. who i hated and then later played on the same team and become close friends when you actually know the guy.

I remember when A.J. played for the twins that i liked (which means hated0 the way he called a game against us because he had our number and I thought he was a good player. i was also annoyed at his gamesmanship, but i understood what it was. I was talking to my bro on the phone when the giants waived him and my immediate response was that the sox should sign him. we need a left handed stick and badly needed a catcher and he seemed like the perfect fit.

PushinWeight
09-12-2008, 01:10 PM
Look around, MLB is full of these kind of guys.

The guy was a major reason the Angels won a World Series and is perhaps today's best closer in the game. So yes, "he has been there before."


How about you actually pay attention to what was posted? No one is arguing if k-rod won a world series game or not. K-rod's post save celebrating and showmanship is what is in question, not his talent. Your argument would be taken a lot more seriously if it had some logic.

102605
09-12-2008, 01:13 PM
How about you actually pay attention to what was posted? No one is arguing if k-rod won a world series game or not. K-rod's post save celebrating and showmanship is what is in question, not his talent. Your argument would be taken a lot more seriously if it had some logic.

Actually some people said K-Rod is just adequate. Which is a joke.

Zisk77
09-12-2008, 01:50 PM
Actually some people said K-Rod is just adequate. Which is a joke.

Some people also said David Weathers was better than bobby jenks, which is why I don't listen to "some" people. :redneck

whitesox901
09-12-2008, 01:56 PM
Damn, poor Thigpen

ktssox
09-12-2008, 02:59 PM
How much did you love AJ when he played for the Twins?

I don't consider myself a fan of players on other teams, but I certainly never disliked AJ like I do those mentioned in my post. They are on a completely different level, in my opinion.

Don't be crapping us (in the words of Boers and Bernstein). Winning championships or being great makes you like whoever wears your team's jersey. Rodman, AJ, Carl Everett just to name a few.

"I want to like the players I root for," give me a break. :rolleyes:

Win is all I care about.

I'm not crapping anyone. It's fine if you feel that way; I can understand that. I don't feel the same, so eyeroll all you want. I can honestly tell you that if the Sox ever signed Manny or Bonds (who are the worst of the worst, in my opinion), I would cancel my season tickets immediately.

LoveYourSuit
09-12-2008, 03:30 PM
I don't consider myself a fan of players on other teams, but I certainly never disliked AJ like I do those mentioned in my post. They are on a completely different level, in my opinion.



I'm not crapping anyone. It's fine if you feel that way; I can understand that. I don't feel the same, so eyeroll all you want. I can honestly tell you that if the Sox ever signed Manny or Bonds (who are the worst of the worst, in my opinion), I would cancel my season tickets immediately.

And there would be 25,000 other people ready to jump on your seats.

LoveYourSuit
09-12-2008, 03:32 PM
How about you actually pay attention to what was posted? No one is arguing if k-rod won a world series game or not. K-rod's post save celebrating and showmanship is what is in question, not his talent. Your argument would be taken a lot more seriously if it had some logic.


There is logic. he "has been there before," therefore that gives him the right to act like a jackass all he wants because he is the best damn closer in the game.

Now talk to me about Carlos Gomez, that little piece of crap has done nothing at the ML level and his behavior and antics are not justified.

Konerko05
09-12-2008, 03:40 PM
If I had a no-consequences opportunity to "Ligue" someone, it would definitely be K-Rod.

Take a hike, Uncle Herbie.

itsnotrequired
09-12-2008, 03:47 PM
i wish this douche was on the sox

doublem23
09-12-2008, 03:50 PM
And there would be 25,000 other people ready to jump on your seats.

I don't think they sold season tickets out this year, so that number may be a bit high.

:shrug:

I don't see what the big deal is... There are certain players I would feel uncomfortable if the Sox signed; the Wil Cordero era brings some flashbacks.

turners56
09-12-2008, 03:55 PM
Why the hate? The guy is GREAT. Records are made to be broken. I'm surprised 57 lasted this long.

K-Rod's actually had better years as a pitcher in the past. He just got a bunch of opportunities this year. He's still a very good closer, but he's overrated. It's not like he was 57/57 in saves, he's blown 6 games. His save conversion% is 90%. Bobby's conversion% is decimal points lower.

Eddo144
09-12-2008, 04:28 PM
Adequate? :o:

Your credibility just went down the flusher.

The guy is GREAT.
Fine. So "adequate" was just as hyperbolic as "GREAT".

Give me one piece of evidence suggesting he's "GREAT" besides saves. Please.

Boondock Saint
09-12-2008, 04:43 PM
K-Rod is a major-league douche. His antics are just like any batter standing Manny Ramirez-like at home plate with his arms up in the air after every home run.

If he ever gets to the plate for an at bat, I hope the pitcher puts the first pitch right in his ribs, then pounds his chest and points to the sky.

CubsfansareDRUNK
09-12-2008, 05:12 PM
Do I respect the hell out of the guy? Hell yeah I do. But that doesn't mean I appreciate the way he acts every time he closes. There's a certain way you have to act out on the mound, and what he does after closing out games is uncalled for, especially since he hasn't broken any records yet. Yes you can celebrate after closing, alot of closers do. But what this guy does is way over the top and a little bit ridiculous. The guy has no class, he's an egotistical, dare I say it, bitch. How would he react if someone hit a home run off him and danced around the plate with his arms in the air looking up at the sky? I'm sure he wouldn't appreciate it at all and I'm sure he would have some words to say. Taking into consideration the fact that the Angels are ****ing amazing this year and he has had numerous opportunities, I'd say "K-rod" is a class-A douchebag.

LoveYourSuit
09-12-2008, 06:08 PM
I don't think they sold season tickets out this year, so that number may be a bit high.

:shrug:

I don't see what the big deal is... There are certain players I would feel uncomfortable if the Sox signed; the Wil Cordero era brings some flashbacks.


Will Cordero sucked.

The names that have been thrown are K-Rod, Manny, etc.

If it meant it made the Sox that much closer to winning the WS, then hell yes I want them here and I will cheer for them and they can point and the sky, scream to the Gods, admire their HRs. I don't care because we would be a winning team.

pythons007
09-12-2008, 09:07 PM
This record may have actually meant something back in the day when a "closer" would pitch more than 1/3 of an inning. If you take a look at Francisco Rodriguez's season he has had over a handful of saves that were only 1/3 or 2/3 of an inning. So to say that this guy has had a great season is seriously and overstatement. 90% of the closers in MLB could convert the save opportunities he's had this year. To get over 65 opportunities anyone would be able to take the record. There are better closers out there that are better than this ****ing *******! I would rather see a guy like Nathan, Soria, Wood, Lidge, Wagner, Izzy get the record because when they do get a save they handle it professionally. They don't point to the sky act like a ****ing monkey and do some tribal dance.

F-Rod is a complete and total douche. I don't know why people say that would take him on our team because there is no instance that would happen unless we no longer had Jenks. Jenks has only had 31 opportunities this year and has converted 28. I would much rather have Bobby than F-Rod!

FarWestChicago
09-13-2008, 06:15 AM
Adequate? :o:

Your credibility just went down the flusher.

The guy is GREAT.He's not even in the same league as Eckersley. It's almost like you've never seen a truly dominant closer. Gossage, Rivera, Sutter, those were closers. Your boy doesn't suck, but he's not historical no matter how many saves he gets.

pierzynski07
09-13-2008, 10:57 AM
It should be noted that Thigpen finished with eight blown saves at the end of the season, with K-Rod currently at six.

pythons007
09-13-2008, 11:27 AM
It should be noted that Thigpen finished with eight blown saves at the end of the season, with K-Rod currently at six.

Yeah, but I'll Bobby Thigpen didn't record any 1/3 or 2/3 of an inning saves. Some of Rodriguez's save opportunities this year were because the bullpen gave up just enough runs to get him out there for a cheap save! I can't stand people praising this guy. He isn't having a CY Young award year or an MVP type year either. For either of these to be true his ERA would have to be at least a run lower and his whip should be lower. He has 57 saves and has only pitched 63.1 innings.

HE IS OVERRATED!

FedEx227
09-13-2008, 11:30 AM
Yeah, but I'll Bobby Thigpen didn't record any 1/3 or 2/3 of an inning saves. Some of Rodriguez's save opportunities this year were because the bullpen gave up just enough runs to get him out there for a cheap save! I can't stand people praising this guy. He isn't having a CY Young award year or an MVP type year either. For either of these to be true his ERA would have to be at least a run lower and his whip should be lower. He has 57 saves and has only pitched 63.1 innings.

HE IS OVERRATED!

Dennis Eckersley only eclipsed 70 IP four times in his 11-year career as a closer and only had an ERA under what K-Rod has four times as well.

K-Rod has only had 1 years with an ERA over 3, 2003. Eck had 8.

itsnotrequired
09-13-2008, 11:38 AM
In 1990, Thigpen had six saves with a third or two thirds of an inning.

So far this year, K-Rod also has six saves having pitched one or two thirds of an inning.

:shrug:

Oh, and claiming the Angels bullpen gave up runs just to let K-Rod get a save is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

:rolleyes:

TDog
09-13-2008, 12:50 PM
Dennis Eckersley only eclipsed 70 IP four times in his 11-year career as a closer and only had an ERA under what K-Rod has four times as well.

K-Rod has only had 1 years with an ERA over 3, 2003. Eck had 8.

Eckersley pitched a no-hitter before he became a closer. Gossage started games for the White Sox before he became a closing legend with the Yankees. I remember a game where Gossage started against Eckerlsey and pitched a complete game, winning 4-1.

As a closer, no one approaches Eckersley at his peak, when he wasn't walking anyone. And Gossage in Yankee pinstripes was what teams were looking to copy when they turned hard-throwing kids into closers rather than starters.

Bobby Thigpen had a few rough games in his record-setting season. He also pitched at least two innings in seven games. He came in when his team needed him, not just in save situations. In one of his four wins, he pitched three shutout innings. There were other games where Thigpen pitched fractionally more than an inning, coming in in the eighth inning to get out of jams in the eighth inning. There were eight games where Thigpen pitched one inning plus one or two more outs.

Rodriguez has not pitched more than one inning in a game all season. The Angels have focused on getting him the record. He has not, for example, come into the eighth with men on first and third and one out as Bobby Jenks did during a tough save in Cleveland on Sept. 3. Even when were at home in extra innings against the Twins (in a game where a save opportunity could not arise), Rodriguez only pitched one inning. Twice this season, the Sox have won in extra innings after Jenks was scored on in the ninth (blowing the save against the Royals and giving up the lead to the Angels) before pitching a scoreless 10th to help the White Sox win in 15 innings. Against the Sox in that 15-inning game, if Rodriguez had pitched a shutout inning after blowing the save, the Angels would have had to get one less inning out of their bullpen. They might have won in the 16th. But he probably wouldn't have been able to come back to get the save the next day. With Rodriguez, the pursuit of the record seems the priority that results in the success of the team. With most closers it is the other way around.

Bobby Thigpen has said for years that he expected the record would be broken some day. He held it on his own for nearly two decades. Bobby Thigpen is a great guy who made $325,000 in 1990 and worked a heck of a lot harder to get the record than Francisco Rodriguez did in tying it on his way to breaking it. That Francisco Rodriguez is a jerk making $10 million this year makes his achievement, in my estimation, disappointing.

turners56
09-13-2008, 01:01 PM
In 1990, Thigpen had six saves with a third or two thirds of an inning.

So far this year, K-Rod also has six saves having pitched one or two thirds of an inning.

:shrug:

Oh, and claiming the Angels bullpen gave up runs just to let K-Rod get a save is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

:rolleyes:

Who said that? That's hilarious.

Dan Mega
09-13-2008, 01:05 PM
I'd take Joe Nathan over K-Rod any day of the week.

itsnotrequired
09-13-2008, 01:08 PM
Who said that? That's hilarious.

behold the nonsense

Yeah, but I'll Bobby Thigpen didn't record any 1/3 or 2/3 of an inning saves. Some of Rodriguez's save opportunities this year were because the bullpen gave up just enough runs to get him out there for a cheap save! I can't stand people praising this guy. He isn't having a CY Young award year or an MVP type year either. For either of these to be true his ERA would have to be at least a run lower and his whip should be lower. He has 57 saves and has only pitched 63.1 innings.

HE IS OVERRATED!

Dan Mega
09-13-2008, 01:32 PM
Where did he say it was intentional from their bullpen? :?:

itsnotrequired
09-13-2008, 01:43 PM
Where did he say it was intentional from their bullpen? :?:

Seem pretty obvious to me what was implied.

Craig Grebeck
09-13-2008, 01:47 PM
He's not that good. Way, way, way overrated. He's above average but not elite.

LoveYourSuit
09-13-2008, 02:00 PM
He's not even in the same league as Eckersley. It's almost like you've never seen a truly dominant closer. Gossage, Rivera, Sutter, those were closers. Your boy doesn't suck, but he's not historical no matter how many saves he gets.


So by those standards, Jenks sucks too or is average at best.

Now that will piss off a good amount of folks on this board, because Bobby is like a God to them.

I think you can't compare players from different eras.

For his era, K-Rod is perhaps 2nd to only Mariano Rivera. He is there with Joe Nathan if not better.

Give credit where credit is due.

Craig Grebeck
09-13-2008, 02:03 PM
So by those standards, Jenks sucks too or is average at best.

Now that will piss of a good amount of folks on this board, because Bobby is like a God to them.

I think you can't compare players from different eras.

For his era, K-Rod is perhaps 2nd to only Mariano Rivera. He is there with Joe Nathan if not better.

Give credit where credit is due.
Not really. There's lots of guys way better than Frankie this season and others. His WHIP is way higher than Nathan's...WAY higher. Scott Downs has been so much better than Rodriguez the last two seasons.

LoveYourSuit
09-13-2008, 02:18 PM
Not really. There's lots of guys way better than Frankie this season and others. His WHIP is way higher than Nathan's...WAY higher. Scott Downs has been so much better than Rodriguez the last two seasons.


Yes he has not been his best this year, but that should not diminish his career as being labeled "over-rated." That's just a stupid thing to stay.

Just look at career numbers and compare him to Mariano Rivera (IMO) the greatest closer in the history of this game:


K-Rod
401 Games - 446 IP - 300 Hits - 6.05 H/9IP - 582 Ks - 11.744 K/9IP - 203 Saves - .455 Saves/IP - 2.38 ERA

Mariano
843 Games - 1016 IP - 796 Hits - 7.05 H/9IP - 928 Ks - 8.22 K/9IP - 476 Saves - .468 Saves/IP - 2.29 ERA


So I guess that stupid theory of him getting "cheap" saves goes for everyone, even the greatest.

Craig Grebeck
09-13-2008, 02:26 PM
Yes he has not been his best this year, but that should not diminish his career as being labeled "over-rated." That's just a stupid thing to stay.

Just look at career numbers and compare him to Mariano Rivera (IMO) the greatest closer in the history of this game:


K-Rod
401 Games - 446 IP - 300 Hits - 6.05 H/9IP - 582 Ks - 11.744 K/9IP - 203 Saves - .455 Saves/IP - 2.38 ERA

Mariano
843 Games - 1016 IP - 796 Hits - 7.05 H/9IP - 928 Ks - 8.22 K/9IP - 476 Saves - .468 Saves/IP - 2.29 ERA


So I guess that stupid theory of him getting "cheap" saves goes for everyone, even the greatest.
You left out BB.

LoveYourSuit
09-13-2008, 02:30 PM
You left out BB.


Big ****ing deal.

He is still as effective as the best.

Just give the ****ing credit where it is due.

Just cause you don't like the guy doesn't mean he is not "GREAT" at what he does.

Craig Grebeck
09-13-2008, 02:34 PM
Big ****ing deal.

He is still as effective as the best.

Just give the ****ing credit where it is due.

Just cause you don't like the guy doesn't mean he is not "GREAT" at what he does.
He's not great. Really. It matters when you have a very pedestrian WHIP.

Also, this year's stats matter when the guy has a terrible throwing motion. As soon as his WHIP isn't twice that of Mariano's you can compare him to the greatest of all time.

pythons007
09-13-2008, 02:35 PM
In 1990, Thigpen had six saves with a third or two thirds of an inning.

So far this year, K-Rod also has six saves having pitched one or two thirds of an inning.

:shrug:

Oh, and claiming the Angels bullpen gave up runs just to let K-Rod get a save is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

:rolleyes:

Wait a second, I didn't say they purposely gave up runs to get him a save. However, those are some cheap saves. Thigpen did record a lot of saves that were more than an inning, some where more than 2 innings. Rodriguez hasn't pitched more than 1 inning this year to pick up a save or nonsave situation.

pythons007
09-13-2008, 02:42 PM
Seem pretty obvious to me what was implied.

You're a complete moron for thinking that. No where in my post did I even hint that the bullpen intentionally gave up runs! Thats moronic. That would mean that I am implying that there is a conspiracy for F-Rod to get the saves record. Give me a break!

LoveYourSuit
09-13-2008, 02:42 PM
He's not great. Really. It matters when you have a very pedestrian WHIP.

Also, this year's stats matter when the guy has a terrible throwing motion. As soon as his WHIP isn't twice that of Mariano's you can compare him to the greatest of all time.

A career WHIP of 1.11 is pedestrian to you?


OK, whatever. Just hate the guy and run with it.

Mariano has a 1.02 WHIP just in case you were going to ask.

And the Great Bobby Jenks has a 1.15.

itsnotrequired
09-13-2008, 02:51 PM
Wait a second, I didn't say they purposely gave up runs to get him a save. However, those are some cheap saves. Thigpen did record a lot of saves that were more than an inning, some where more than 2 innings. Rodriguez hasn't pitched more than 1 inning this year to pick up a save or nonsave situation.

Eh, Thigpen only had 11 saves that were more than an inning in 1990. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying K-Rod is "better" than Thigpen. I just don't agree with the "cheap save" theory. 22 of his saves this year have been in games where he was protecting only a one run lead. Doesn't seem cheap to me.

:shrug:

Craig Grebeck
09-13-2008, 03:47 PM
A career WHIP of 1.11 is pedestrian to you?


OK, whatever. Just hate the guy and run with it.

Mariano has a 1.02 WHIP just in case you were going to ask.

And the Great Bobby Jenks has a 1.15.
This season, as well as last, it has been extremely pedestrian for a reliever.

I don't really think much of Jenks, to be honest. Keep rolling with that defense though.

Dan Mega
09-13-2008, 03:48 PM
Seem pretty obvious to me what was implied.

You got it wrong you Russian.

itsnotrequired
09-13-2008, 04:05 PM
You got it wrong you Russian.

Amazingly, this is the first time on this site that anyone has ever suggested a conspiracy.

Also, K-Rod is the worst closer to ever Walk the Earth.

LoveYourSuit
09-13-2008, 04:11 PM
This season, as well as last, it has been extremely pedestrian for a reliever.

I don't really think much of Jenks, to be honest. Keep rolling with that defense though.


I keep rolling with this defense because people on this board think Bobby is a God out there. I don't.

I am curious to see you rank a list of your top 5-10 closers in the game right now and see where you put K-Rod.

LoveYourSuit
09-13-2008, 04:12 PM
Amazingly, this is the first time on this site that anyone has ever suggested a conspiracy.

Also, K-Rod is the worst closer to ever Walk the Earth.

I sense sarcasm, but I have Matt Karchner ranked slightly ahead of him on the bottom of the list.

drewcifer
09-13-2008, 04:15 PM
I sense sarcasm, but I have Matt Karchner ranked slightly ahead of him on the bottom of the list.

It's about time you noticed.

Craig Grebeck
09-13-2008, 04:17 PM
I keep rolling with this defense because people on this board think Bobby is a God out there. I don't.

I am curious to see you rank a list of your top 5-10 closers in the game right now and see where you put K-Rod.
I'm not going to rank closers. That would be arbitrary; I'll rank relievers for THIS SEASON (since that was the original topic).

Brad Lidge
Joakim Soria
Mariano Rivera
Scott Downs
Joe Nathan
Francisco Rodriguez
...

LoveYourSuit
09-13-2008, 04:33 PM
I'm not going to rank closers. That would be arbitrary; I'll rank relievers for THIS SEASON (since that was the original topic).

Brad Lidge
Joakim Soria
Mariano Rivera
Scott Downs
Joe Nathan
Francisco Rodriguez
...


No it was not. The original topic was about him breaking/tie the record. It had nothing to do with "who is the best reliever today, just for this season."

Then someone including yourself made the dumb statement of referring to him as adequate, average, not that good, etc..... when his career numbers suggest the opposite.

Look, I don't like the guy one bit. I hate his antics on the mound as everyone not being an Angels fan will. But let's also not let hate get in the way of acknowledging when someone is a good/great player.

That's my arguement here.

Craig Grebeck
09-13-2008, 04:39 PM
No it was not. The original topic was about him breaking/tie the record. It had nothing to do with "who is the best reliever today, just for this season."

Then someone including yourself made the dumb statement of referring to him as adequate, average, not that good, etc..... when his career numbers suggest the opposite.

Look, I don't like the guy one bit. I hate his antics on the mound as everyone not being an Angels fan will. But let's also not let hate get in the way of acknowledging when someone is a good/great player.

That's my arguement here.
And I'm saying people are putting way too much stock in his ability to get saves -- the worst stat around. There are much better way to evaluate him. He is trending downward the last two seasons, something much more indicative of his talent than the previous seasons.

LoveYourSuit
09-13-2008, 05:53 PM
And I'm saying people are putting way too much stock in his ability to get saves -- the worst stat around. There are much better way to evaluate him. He is trending downward the last two seasons, something much more indicative of his talent than the previous seasons.


It's a stat that owners aroud MLB seem to care about greatly with the amount of cash they throw around for these guys.

pythons007
09-13-2008, 07:29 PM
It's a stat that owners aroud MLB seem to care about greatly with the amount of cash they throw around for these guys.


This may not sound like a good argument but look at what Cleveland, Florida, Tampa Bay, A's?, San Fran, Baltimore, Texas....

These teams kind of just pick guys from their bullpens/farm systems it looks like. Cleveland had Wickman and Borowski, ouch!

scarsofthumper
09-13-2008, 10:10 PM
4-2 Angels in the 7th.

Looks like it can be tonight.

Sockinchisox
09-13-2008, 10:57 PM
He just did it.

scarsofthumper
09-13-2008, 11:00 PM
Strikeout on a 3-2 count too.

"Just another Halo victory"

chisoxfanatic
09-13-2008, 11:07 PM
He just did it.
:puking:

JermaineDye05
09-13-2008, 11:23 PM
He just did it.

congrats to Francisco.

itsnotrequired
09-13-2008, 11:26 PM
i hope he dies in a space shuttle crash

chisoxfanatic
09-13-2008, 11:27 PM
i hope he dies in a space shuttle crash
Ok, that just made me laugh. :redneck

itsnotrequired
09-13-2008, 11:29 PM
Ok, that just made me laugh. :redneck

there is nothing funny about the death of american astronauts.

:(:

chisoxfanatic
09-13-2008, 11:31 PM
there is nothing funny about the death of american astronauts.

:(:
K-Rod looks like an alien when he wears those goggles, that's why.

scarsofthumper
09-13-2008, 11:44 PM
i hope he dies in a space shuttle crash
Jesus christ, i just spit MGD all over my keyboard. rofl

BleacherBandit
09-14-2008, 08:41 AM
Hopefully people won't remember him for this record, but because of the fact that he was a HUGE DOUCHE.

Craig Grebeck
09-14-2008, 09:00 AM
It's a stat that owners aroud MLB seem to care about greatly with the amount of cash they throw around for these guys.
Yeah, and that's a foolish way of doing business. Nice line of defense though. Paying Francisco Cordero $46 million over the next four years was a very wise move for the Reds.

chaerulez
09-14-2008, 09:33 AM
For the record, Skip Bayless has "no problem" with K-Rod's antics. I don't remember his reasoning, but I think it was that he likes K-Rod's emotions.

Regardless, the guy treats every save like he won a playoff game.

TDog
09-14-2008, 01:16 PM
Yeah, and that's a foolish way of doing business. Nice line of defense though. Paying Francisco Cordero $46 million over the next four years was a very wise move for the Reds.

Giving huge money to starting pitchers is a gamble. Giving huge money to relief pitchers is usually a bad gamble. Giving money to middle and set-up relief usually is a bigger problem than giving huge contracts to closers, however. The White Sox are fortunate to have Jenks in the low-earning end of his career at the moment, but consensus in March was that they overpaid for middle relief. White Sox fans might not share this opinion, but current consensus around baseball is that the White Sox overspend on non-closing relief this offseason, something that the Yankees are usually accused of doing.

A big part of the problem is the closer mentality. Bullpens used to have several guys who closed games -- ideally at least two lights-out go-to guys, one right-handed and one left-handed. The 1972 White Sox, for example, had this with rookie Rich Gossage (who wanted to start) and Terry Forster. People like Rollie Fingers (who started against the Sox in 1971 before he found his niche) changed some thinking with the A's championship teams of 1972-74, but Gossage changed thinking forever with the Yankees later in the decade.

Until a team assembles a championship bullpen that has five or six strong relievers, three or four of which serve as effective closers, for less than the cost of Francisco Rodriguez (which would require developing pitchers in the farm system), the closer mentality will continue.

When Bobby Thigpen was setting his record, people like Peter Gammons were saying and writing that the record didn't mean anything because teams that relied on more pitchers to convert saves were converting them at a rate as good or better.

The only thing I liked about the save rule was that Bobby Thigpen held the single-season record. I think he's a good guy. Now that he no longer does, I can be unconflicted in my belief that the save record has hurt baseball.

SBSoxFan
09-14-2008, 01:36 PM
For the record, Skip Bayless has "no problem" with K-Rod's antics. I don't remember his reasoning, but I think it was that he likes K-Rod's emotions.

Regardless, the guy treats every save like he won a playoff game.

The guy treats every completed save like it was the 7th game of the world series.

scarsofthumper
09-14-2008, 01:40 PM
For the record, Skip Bayless has "no problem" with K-Rod's antics. I don't remember his reasoning, but I think it was that he likes K-Rod's emotions.

Regardless, the guy treats every save like he won a playoff game.
There's your answer.