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kevingrt
09-11-2008, 11:07 PM
Ugh.

Pear-Zin-Ski
09-11-2008, 11:07 PM
wow...way to suck up the loss guys!

Nice effort to come back but such a terrible offering by the pen....

kittle42
09-11-2008, 11:07 PM
Yuck.

soltrain21
09-11-2008, 11:08 PM
Stop using our ****ty bullpen guys, Ozzie. The triple A team should not decide our fate.

Swisher is terrible.

Blueprint1
09-11-2008, 11:08 PM
Nothing went our way in that one.

guillensdisciple
09-11-2008, 11:09 PM
I am going to go crazy if this continues. This is insane, the sox and twins are copying each other. Finding ways to lose but wow is it fun to watch.

The Sox don't give up, they will do it, they can beat the better teams.


Bahh they will go all the way baby!

JB98
09-11-2008, 11:09 PM
This is like Little League. Everyone gets to play!

kevingrt
09-11-2008, 11:09 PM
I am going to go crazy if this continues. This is insane, the sox and twins are copying each other. Finding ways to lose but wow is it fun to watch.

The Sox don't give up, they will do it, they can beat the better teams.


Bahh they will go all the way baby!

What happens in the playoffs if Ozzie only has like 6 guys in the pen?

LoveYourSuit
09-11-2008, 11:10 PM
:rolleyes: It sure will be so much fun to ride this team into the playoffs.

All I can hope for is that we have another 2006 Cardinals in us, BECAUSE WE STINK!

Konerko05
09-11-2008, 11:10 PM
Wasserman? Seriously that's a joke. Does Ozzie understand that he doesn't have to actually use his September call ups.

What is up with Pierzynski's inability to call for anything but a fastball in the 8th?

hawkjt
09-11-2008, 11:10 PM
Stop using our ****ty bullpen guys, Ozzie. The triple A team should not decide our fate.

Swisher is terrible.


Seriously, who should he have brought in?
We got no one that is going good now ...not even bobby.

soxrme
09-11-2008, 11:10 PM
Poor managing, again Swisher is so disappointing. This guy is a legend in his mind only. We really needed this game.

LoveYourSuit
09-11-2008, 11:11 PM
Stop using our ****ty bullpen guys, Ozzie. The triple A team should not decide our fate.

Swisher is terrible.

Other than a pair of dramatic HRs, he has been awful.

sox1970
09-11-2008, 11:11 PM
Not a good game.

10 games until the Twins series. Hope they go 4-6, and the Sox go at least 6-4.

sox1970
09-11-2008, 11:12 PM
:rolleyes: It sure will be so much fun to ride this team into the playoffs.

All I can hope for is that we have another 2006 Cardinals in us, BECAUSE WE STINK!

Agree 100%. The 2006 Cardinals team is the only thing that gives me hope.

hawkjt
09-11-2008, 11:12 PM
Marcum is unhittable for the sox....how does he only win 8 games?
The guy should have 20 wins.

Tragg
09-11-2008, 11:12 PM
In 2 games of the series Guillen brought in AAA relievers in crunch time; both times, disaster occurred.

The lineup has been juggled to ensure that DeWayne Wise, bats 2nd. If you factor out Wise's 1 week in June, Wise's OBP this season is .241. He also has 3 walks in 82 PAs . (2 of those 3 walks happened in that magical week in June). He's also not much of a defender. Yet not only does he start, he bats 2nd. I know he has attributes that appeal to this field staff: he swings at everything, doesn't waste at bats by taking pitches and walking, and he can make his outs wherever Ozzie tells him to. But .241 is too grotesque for a playoff baseball team. Brian Anderson, by any measure, is a far superior baseball player.

The manager is overwhelmed.

kittle42
09-11-2008, 11:12 PM
I said it in the game thread and I'll say it again: If the Sox make the playoffs, the opponents should petition MLB to allow Guillen to carry a 40-man roster.

PeoriaSoxFan
09-11-2008, 11:13 PM
Quote from Jan '08......."Nick is a quality switch hitter who consistently gets on base, hits for power and drives in runs," Sox GM Ken Williams said in a statement. "

drewcifer
09-11-2008, 11:13 PM
Swisher is a massive disappointment.

JB98
09-11-2008, 11:13 PM
Seriously, who should he have brought in?
We got no one that is going good now ...not even bobby.

He should have stuck with Thornton, because Thornton is big-league pitcher while Wasserman is not.

Use AAA callups in mop-up scenarios only.

hawkjt
09-11-2008, 11:14 PM
Who did hit Marcum tonite?

You act like wise was the only one baffled.

stl_sox_fan
09-11-2008, 11:14 PM
4-6 this month. Can't keep relying on the Twins to keep losing.
That eighth inning, what more can you say?

At least the Sox will have a winning season. Woohoo.

LoveYourSuit
09-11-2008, 11:14 PM
Marcum is unhittable for the sox....how does he only win 8 games?
The guy should have 20 wins.


Because he only faces the Sox 8 times per year.

Blueprint1
09-11-2008, 11:14 PM
Not a good game.

10 games until the Twins series. Hope they go 4-6, and the Sox go at least 6-4.

You think we can go 6-4 in the games leading up to Minn? I hope your right.

kittle42
09-11-2008, 11:14 PM
The manager is overwhelmed.

He's always been a great clubhouse manager and a crap game manager. The bullpen horses in 2005 made him look like a genius. There is at least, it seems, one time a game where he makes a decision completely contrary to all logic and numbers.

Chisox353014
09-11-2008, 11:15 PM
Well, I guess we have to look at the big picture. It's another day off the schedule and we're still in first place in the 2008 Slapfight For The Central.
At least we don't have to see the damn Blue Jays and their minor league hockey uniforms again his year.

PicktoCLick72
09-11-2008, 11:15 PM
I am in no way giving up on this season but whether or not we make the playoffs, I just do not see this team going anywhere. Too flawed, too many holes. Even in a short series, I cannot see them advancing. When you lose 4 starters in a month it usually huts your team.

Now, the Twins are just as flawed and I seethem having the same problems as us. But, after that, I just don't know what to think.

sox1970
09-11-2008, 11:15 PM
You think we can go 6-4 in the games leading up to Minn? I hope you're right.

2-1 Tigers
2-2 Yankees
2-1 Royals

Need it.

Daver
09-11-2008, 11:15 PM
I like the Canadian National Anthem.

kittle42
09-11-2008, 11:15 PM
Who did hit Marcum tonite?

You act like wise was the only one baffled.

Defending a guy who sucks by saying everyone else also sucks is not a great defense.

LoveYourSuit
09-11-2008, 11:16 PM
I said it in the game thread and I'll say it again: If the Sox make the playoffs, the opponents should petition MLB to allow Guillen to carry a 40-man roster.


And the 40th man should be for the "case of the missing Scott Linebrink."


Put this guy on the shelf for good if he can't pitch for us during a DAMN PENNAT RACE.

Whitesoxfan23
09-11-2008, 11:16 PM
What a terrible series. Losing 3 out of 4 at home is ******* garbage. I'm pissed.

munchman33
09-11-2008, 11:16 PM
2-1 Tigers
2-2 Yankees
2-1 Royals

Need it.

I think we sweep the Tigers. You're probably right about the rest.

kittle42
09-11-2008, 11:16 PM
I like the Canadian National Anthem.

I do, too. It is quite lovely.

kitekrazy
09-11-2008, 11:16 PM
What is up with Pierzynski's inability to call for anything but a fastball in the 8th?

Especially on the outside corner. Reminds me of Alomar.

PeoriaSoxFan
09-11-2008, 11:16 PM
I have been watching a lot of baseball lately...and honestly, I haven't seen another team parading out the clown car of garbage minor league pitching that we are, regardless of whether they are in first place or last.

Tragg
09-11-2008, 11:17 PM
He's always been a great clubhouse manager and a crap game manager. The bullpen horses in 2005 made him look like a genius. There is at least, it seems, one time a game where he makes a decision completely contrary to all logic and numbers.
He's fine when it's Thornton or Dotel in the 7th, Linebrink in the 8th and Jenks in the 9th.
I agree that he's a good clubhouse manager - he gets good effort out of the team, they don't get down and go on extended losing streaks.

But his field managing is getting decidely worse. He's consistently hurting this team's chances of winning.
And his talent evaluation skills are abysmal.

WhiteSox5187
09-11-2008, 11:17 PM
This bullpen looks more and more like last year's pen. Who is there that we can go to put out a fire?

Swisher needs to step it up and he's just not doing that. He's just not a good ballplayer. "But but but his OPS! His OPS!" Yea, fine, meanwhile he's a ****ing .220 hitter with a rather pedestrian .339 OBP. Also for what it's worth right now Anderson has a higher SLG than Swisher. Not exactly the sort of production we need right now.

Jaysox
09-11-2008, 11:17 PM
Wow. That was heartbreaking. Was a good pitchers duel for awhile. Just a rough loss. We NEED to sweep the kitties.

munchman33
09-11-2008, 11:18 PM
Swisher is a massive disappointment.

Be careful. The mods don't take kindly to that kind of talk. The last time there was a thread that called Swisher anything but a godsend, it was roadhoused.

0-4 with a K in the ninth. Just another day at the office.

Chisox353014
09-11-2008, 11:18 PM
And the 40th man should be for the "case of the missing Scott Linebrink."


Put this guy on the shelf for good if he can't pitch for us during a DAMN PENNAT RACE.

Yeah I really would like to know what's going on with this. The bullpen has been a complete crapshoot since he went down. He can't possibly be worse than a good chunk of the guys we're running out there at the moment.

hawkjt
09-11-2008, 11:18 PM
Defending a guy who sucks by saying everyone else also sucks is not a great defense.


well, it is a common thread at the plate tonite so maybe it was not that wise was worse than everyone else that did not hit tonite but that the pitcher just kicked our butts.

LoveYourSuit
09-11-2008, 11:19 PM
I am in no way giving up on this season but whether or not we make the playoffs, I just do not see this team going anywhere. Too flawed, too many holes. Even in a short series, I cannot see them advancing. When you lose 4 starters in a month it usually huts your team.

Now, the Twins are just as flawed and I seethem having the same problems as us. But, after that, I just don't know what to think.


This crappy baseball has been going on even when we had all our horses.

The team is flawed and so is the system. Unless we pull a 2006 Cardinal miracle, I am in hopes for a huge shake up from top to bottom.

turners56
09-11-2008, 11:19 PM
Jesus Christ Ozzie, Wasserman in the 8th? I'm sorry, but this loss is on Ozzie. It's September, time to let the real players play. And the umpiring? OMG, even Phil Cuzzi was better. We just had no luck this week. ****ing A.

kittle42
09-11-2008, 11:19 PM
I have been watching a lot of baseball lately...and honestly, I haven't seen another team parading out the clown car of garbage minor league pitching that we are, regardless of whether they are in first place or last.

But what if their parents came to watch the game? We have to play them all!

Domeshot17
09-11-2008, 11:19 PM
At some point a lot of this has to be put on Kenny as well.

Kenny went out this year and dealt our 2 best prospects for Swisher. Argue or not if it was a fair trade, it was not what we needed. We needed an OF (namely CF), who could lead off. We had the perfect number 2 hitter in Cabrera. Kenny instead decides our 2 hitter should lead off and plug our free swining 3-6 hitters 2-9.

Trade deadline comes, we have a shaky bullpen, we have an injured set up man, and we have no lead off hitter or team speed whatsoever. So Kenny decides the best move is deal from a weakness for a slow, poor performing, over the hill former superstar instead of the 2 things we need most. Not saying Massett would really be any better, but yes, he is better than the triple A crap we keep running out there. For most the year the sox have won by just jamming the square pegs into the round hole as hard as they could, but it is not the recipe to win.

EuroSox35
09-11-2008, 11:20 PM
I'd love to be inside Kenny's mind right now, I'd have to think he's pissed too, probably contemplating getting some of these guys away from Ozzie...

munchman33
09-11-2008, 11:20 PM
Jesus Christ Ozzie, Wasserman in the 8th? I'm sorry, but this loss is on Ozzie. It's September, time to let the real players play. And the umpiring? OMG, even Phil Cuzzi was better. We just had no luck this week. ****ing A.

You're right. It's everyone's fault except the players who didn't perfom.

Tragg
09-11-2008, 11:20 PM
This bullpen looks more and more like last year's pen. Who is there that we can go to put out a fire?

.
It's not nearly that bad.
Look, Wasserman put the game away for the Jays. Wasserman was horrible on the Sox this year, and as such spent the last 3 months in AAA. There are far superior choices than he for meaningful innings.

kittle42
09-11-2008, 11:20 PM
Be careful. The mods don't take kindly to that kind of talk. The last time there was a thread that called Swisher anything but a godsend, it was roadhoused.

That thread was roadhoused because you guys turned it into a face-slapping contest.

The Immigrant
09-11-2008, 11:23 PM
Thornton had a job to do and couldn't get it done. He kept throwing the exact same pitch until Overbay, a guy batting .220 against lefties, just took it right up the middle. He had the key hit in 2 of the 4 games.

Good riddance to Toronto.

Noneck
09-11-2008, 11:23 PM
What is the deal with Linebrink?

hawkjt
09-11-2008, 11:23 PM
This is going to be an uphill battle without carlos and pk and crede and linebrink...almost take a miracle.

But, one up with 16 to play...it could be worse.

Go get the tigers this weekend.

Tragg
09-11-2008, 11:24 PM
This crappy baseball has been going on even when we had all our horses.

The team is flawed and so is the system. Unless we pull a 2006 Cardinal miracle, I am in hopes for a huge shake up from top to bottom.don't hold your breath....Guillen is signed for like another 1/2 a decade.

Williams simply must ignore Guillen's evaluation when deciding on young offensive talent. We can't throw away productive players keep useless players (dump Sweeney, keep Owens to use one example).

Frankfan4life
09-11-2008, 11:24 PM
These are our weaknesses:


Bullpen gives up lots of runs
Clutch hitting problems
Inconsistent fielding
Injury prone
Cannot throw out base-runners consistently
Makes a lot of stupid base-running errors
Manager makes a lot of bad decisions

These are our strengths:


Can hit a lot of homers

sox1970
09-11-2008, 11:24 PM
What is the deal with Linebrink?

If Linebrink was under a one-year contract, he'd be pitching more.

They're paranoid about ruining him with three years left.

Whitesoxfan23
09-11-2008, 11:25 PM
To say that Swisher has been a disappointment, is a complete understatement.

LoveYourSuit
09-11-2008, 11:25 PM
We had a chance to "avoid playing for our lives" at that dump dome and we have pretty much pissed it away.

JB98
09-11-2008, 11:25 PM
What is the deal with Linebrink?

Good question. If he's healthy, you would think they'd want to use him in pressure spots over Wassermann and even Carrasco.

Tragg
09-11-2008, 11:26 PM
We had a chance to "avoid playing for our lives" at that dump dome and we have pretty much pissed it away.
Thank goodness the Twins are keeping us in it by losing home games to the Royals.

SoxSpeed22
09-11-2008, 11:26 PM
Total hell. That is all.

PeoriaSoxFan
09-11-2008, 11:26 PM
Enough with my bitching and whining. It won't change the results. It is what it is. Now, 16 games left. How many can we win? How many do we need to win? I'd say somewhere between 10 and 15. The three against the Twins are obviously a huge key in the analysis.

Any chance of Konerko playing this weekend? Crede, Linebrink?

WhiteSox5187
09-11-2008, 11:26 PM
It's not nearly that bad.
Look, Wasserman put the game away for the Jays. Wasserman was horrible on the Sox this year, and as such spent the last 3 months in AAA. There are far superior choices than he for meaningful innings.
I'm not thrilled with putting Wassermann out there, but who the hell was any better? You want to see Octavio "I throw a 92 mph fastball and not much else" Dotel out there? Maybe you throw Linebrink out there, but I have no real confidence in him.

hawkjt
09-11-2008, 11:27 PM
Coming into this series, it was pretty obvious that we would struggle. We caught their best 4 starters...they lead mlb in pitching, and we are lacking our two hottest hitters.

This is not a shock...just that halladay was the one we got.
Homers are going to be hard to come by the rest of the way, I suspect which means we need our bullpen and starters of April back.

Whitesoxfan23
09-11-2008, 11:27 PM
This team stresses me out. These past few games have been very painful to watch.

turners56
09-11-2008, 11:27 PM
You're right. It's everyone's fault except the players who didn't perfom.

It's the manager's job to put players into situations where they can succeed. On any other team, Wasserman mops up. Mostly cause sucks. I bet Ozzie thought Wasserman changed his name to Linebrink. Keep Thornton in, use Dotel, use Carrasco, use a ML pitcher! Bullpen management was just bad tonight.

LoveYourSuit
09-11-2008, 11:27 PM
These are our weaknesses:


Bullpen gives up lots of runs
Clutch hitting problems
Inconsistent fielding
Injury prone
Cannot throw out base-runners consistently
Makes a lot of stupid base-running errors
Manager makes a lot of bad decisions
These are our strengths:


Can hit a lot of homers


In strengths you can add:

2. We crap all over quality starts by our starters
3. We make very stupid commercials.

Parrothead
09-11-2008, 11:27 PM
Nothing went our way in that one.

I am sure it was the umps fault ! :rolleyes:

BleacherBandit
09-11-2008, 11:27 PM
At least the Twins lost.....

chisoxfanatic
09-11-2008, 11:28 PM
Hey, now! The Canadian national anthem's one of the best tunes ever! Don't knock it.

Fortunately, we don't have to play the Jays again, however. They had our number all year. The only positive is the Twins lost again, so we don't lose any ground.

One thing that's for sure is that home plate umpire did an absolutely horrible job out there tonight! It's hard to win when strikes that really are balls are being called on you.

BleacherBandit
09-11-2008, 11:29 PM
In strengths you can add:

2. We crap all over quality starts by our starters
3. We make very stupid commercials.

They're decent.

I miss the OC one, 'I was born on the Soutside'.....yeah, right!

LoveYourSuit
09-11-2008, 11:29 PM
Enough with my bitching and whining. It won't change the results. It is what it is. Now, 16 games left. How many can we win? How many do we need to win? I'd say somewhere between 10 and 15. The three against the Twins are obviously a huge key in the analysis.

Any chance of Konerko playing this weekend? Crede, Linebrink?


No bitching and whinning about injuries now. "It is what it is."

WhiteSox5187
09-11-2008, 11:30 PM
It's the manager's job to put players into situations where they can succeed. On any other team, Wasserman mops up. Mostly cause sucks. I bet Ozzie thought Wasserman changed his name to Linebrink. Keep Thornton in, use Dotel, use Carrasco, use a ML pitcher! Bullpen management was just bad tonight.
Yea cuz Thornton and Dotel have shown they are consistently clutch. :rolleyes:

There's no one out there that I feel at all safe with, exception of MAYBE Jenks.

LoveYourSuit
09-11-2008, 11:30 PM
They're decent.

I miss the OC one, 'I was born on the Soutside'.....yeah, right!


They are false advertising when on one of them they emphasize the art of bunting (AJ).

UofCSoxFan
09-11-2008, 11:30 PM
Stop using our ****ty bullpen guys, Ozzie. The triple A team should not decide our fate.

Swisher is terrible.

Get used to both. Going to the 4 man rotation means our starters won't be able to go as long which means more pen.

Swisher is our only first baseman right now.

Whitesoxfan23
09-11-2008, 11:31 PM
LOL@Ozzie bringing WUSSerman in, in that situation. What in the blue hell was he thinking? Scott Linebrink is back last time that I checked. Why do we rarely ever use him? I rather see Dotel or Linebrink in that situation, than Wusserman.

october23sp
09-11-2008, 11:33 PM
This season is ripping apart at the seams even if we make the playoffs a lot of work needs to be done in offseason. We need someone like podsednik. 0 homers, solid defense, good bunter, good at getting on, good base stealer. Also we don't need to use every man on roster we have done this for so long its so bad. I like Ozzie but that could seriously be a reason to can him. How are we still in first? I hope we win and all but how honestly are we still in first?

BleacherBandit
09-11-2008, 11:33 PM
Swisher is our only first baseman right now.

You could use Fields at first. Last time I checked, he was just as useless as Swish...

Wouldn't make a difference though...

PeoriaSoxFan
09-11-2008, 11:33 PM
No bitching and whinning about injuries now. "It is what it is."

Yeah, I was just asking if they might play, not bitching though. Konerko reportedly had a shot at playing this weekend. Linebrink, nobody has said anything about and I still think Crede will show before year end.

drewcifer
09-11-2008, 11:34 PM
This is going to be an uphill battle without carlos and pk and crede and linebrink...almost take a miracle.

But, one up with 16 to play...it could be worse.

Go get the tigers this weekend.

Yes it could. Best post I read so far.

As ****ty as we look, we are still on top. Somehow, someway.

turners56
09-11-2008, 11:34 PM
Yea cuz Thornton and Dotel have shown they are consistently clutch. :rolleyes:

There's no one out there that I feel at all safe with, exception of MAYBE Jenks.

Hmm...Wasserman basically didn't get anybody out. At least Thornton struck out a batter. In that situation, you look for damage control, Wasserman failed. So who would you rather have to prevent runs? Wasserman, Thornton, or Dotel?

PeoriaSoxFan
09-11-2008, 11:36 PM
Get used to both. Going to the 4 man rotation means our starters won't be able to go as long which means more pen.

Swisher is our only first baseman right now.

Is Brad Eldred any possibility to call up? Hit 35 HRs with 100 RBIs in Charlotte this year. Poor average yes. 144 K's in 427 ABs, but would seem to fit right in to how we won all year.

turners56
09-11-2008, 11:37 PM
Is Brad Eldred any possibility to call up? Hit 35 HRs with 100 RBIs in Charlotte this year. Poor average yes. 144 K's in 427 ABs, but would seem to fit right in to how we won all year.

We have enough Brad Eldreds on the team.

PeoriaSoxFan
09-11-2008, 11:38 PM
We have enough Brad Eldreds on the team.


True that.

kevingrt
09-11-2008, 11:39 PM
This season is ripping apart at the seams even if we make the playoffs a lot of work needs to be done in offseason. We need someone like podsednik. 0 homers, solid defense, good bunter, good at getting on, good base stealer. Also we don't need to use every man on roster we have done this for so long its so bad. I like Ozzie but that could seriously be a reason to can him. How are we still in first? I hope we win and all but how honestly are we still in first?

Honestly, we are in first.

Frankfan4life
09-11-2008, 11:41 PM
Well, so much for home-field advantage. We're starting to suck at home now.

I'm going to the game tomorrow. I hope at least the weather is good.

hawkjt
09-11-2008, 11:41 PM
Looking for positives...Jim Thome has shown an ability to hit lefties this year...not something he has done that well in recent years. No other lefty seems to be able to do this...AJ occasionally.
Other team leftys seem to hit our lefty pitching ..is it our pitchers or our hitters?

Just have to hope that Verlander,Rogers and Miner are thinking tee times and not shutting down our weak offense.

WhiteSox5187
09-11-2008, 11:41 PM
Hmm...Wasserman basically didn't get anybody out. At least Thornton struck out a batter. In that situation, you look for damage control, Wasserman failed. So who would you rather have to prevent runs? Wasserman, Thornton, or Dotel?
Thornton got a huge strike out and then promptly gave up a two run single to a lefty, so his job was done and only half done. Dotel had just given up a two run shot that we're still waiting to land last night and has looked just awful his past couple of times out. I think Carrasco was available, I might have gone with him. Fact of the matter is there just aren't a lot of guys in our bullpen who are capable of consistently getting guys out.

turners56
09-11-2008, 11:41 PM
Honestly, we are in first.

Lol, 0 homers, good speed, good defense...Jerry Owens. No you just didn't...

drewcifer
09-11-2008, 11:42 PM
This season is ripping apart at the seams even if we make the playoffs a lot of work needs to be done in offseason. We need someone like podsednik. 0 homers, solid defense, good bunter, good at getting on, good base stealer. Also we don't need to use every man on roster we have done this for so long its so bad. I like Ozzie but that could seriously be a reason to can him. How are we still in first? I hope we win and all but how honestly are we still in first?

Go away.

WhiteSox5187
09-11-2008, 11:43 PM
Lol, 0 homers, good speed, good defense...Jerry Owens. No you just didn't...
Where the hell did you get that from in the post you quoted? Earlier there was something to that effect about a Podsednik like player (and i think it's safe to say that Pods contributed a lot to the '05 team and getting a guy like that would certainly help us out for '09, wouldn't you?).

Jerko
09-11-2008, 11:44 PM
We have enough Brad Eldreds on the team.


*** I'd settle for Cal Eldred right now.

turners56
09-11-2008, 11:47 PM
Where the hell did you get that from in the post you quoted? Earlier there was something to that effect about a Podsednik like player (and i think it's safe to say that Pods contributed a lot to the '05 team and getting a guy like that would certainly help us out for '09, wouldn't you?).

Yea, that's what I meant to quote.

TheOldRoman
09-11-2008, 11:48 PM
Not a good game.

10 games until the Twins series. Hope they go 4-6, and the Sox go at least 6-4.I think you would have better luck wishing for the Sox to go 4-6 and the Twins to go 0-10.

This team is gutless and spineless. This is 2006 all over again. It was sickening watching down the stretch in 06. They got punched in the mouth time and time again, and cowered in the corner. They didn't fight at all. There is no pride, no sense of urgency. "Eh, no biggie. We will win tomorrow."

This was a shameful effort. You absolutely cannot lose 3 of 4 ****ing game at home this time of the year. The Blue Jays are not a good team. They are a mediocre at best team who is hot right now. Marcum doesn't have an ERA of zero. He should have bit hit. It was the usual crap, swing for the fences. If the pitch is low and outside - swing even harder. Not surprisingly, they only started hitting once "game's over". Even after that, they had a great 8th and should have pushed across a few in the ninth. Ryan was primed for a pounding, but Swisher and Cabrera chased garbage. Thornton was bad, Wassermann was terrible. Ozzie had a really bad game, and shouldn't have put Wass in there, but nobody is really pitching well right now. The Jays have a lot of bad, bad hitters who the Sox pitching made look great these last four.

As I have said all along, the Twins are a bad team, and the only way they get to the playoffs is if the Sox choke. Well, they are choking up a storm. Luckily, the Twins are failing even worse. If the Sox hand this division to the Twins, it will be the 3rd Twins division title on Ozzie's watch, and the second time the Sox had a much better team but completely fell apart (you can't count 2004 because of Frank and Ordonez being out). If the Twins are handed another division title, heads need to roll. It is inexcusable. I only fear that Kenny might say "well, if only we had Carlos we would have won it". Bull****. This team is better than the Twins, and has been all year. If they lose this thing, if they don't ****ing care enough to put up a fight in a game like this, that is a direct reflection on their managing.

Rikirk
09-11-2008, 11:50 PM
We need some clutch hitters...:angry:

sox1970
09-11-2008, 11:50 PM
Roman--this is not 2006. The second half of 2006, the Sox had no pitching. It wasn't for a lack of effort. They simply had nothing left in the tank the second half.

TDog
09-11-2008, 11:52 PM
Seriously, who should he have brought in?
We got no one that is going good now ...not even bobby.

Not against Toronto, anyway. The Blue Jays are the hottest team in baseball. Wednesday night, Buehrle held the Jays down. One of the five runs that came in while the bullpen got five outs was charged to Buehrle, though. Tonight, only one run scored while Floyd was in the game, but the three runners he left on base were allowed to score by the bullpen.

The difference between Wednesday and Thursday nights is that the Sox were able to score off Wednesday's starter before the Blue Jays offense went to work.

You can't judge the Sox bullpen by its lack of success against Toronto, a team that had won 10 straight against the Yankees, Twins, Rays and White Sox before losing to the Sox Wednesday night. The Sox bullpen did pretty well against the Angels. Considering that the Blue Jays are a longshot to make the postseason, the Sox don't have to worry about them anymore. The Sox looked much better against the Angels, the only team yet to qualify for the ALDS.

The Jays have seven more games against the Red Sox, six more games against the Orioles and three more games against the Yankees. If they make the postseason, they could easily respresent the American League in the World Series if they stay hot.

One of the reasons they probably won't get to the World Series, no matter how well they are playing now, is that this team had its problems before it got hot. At one point before the All-Star break, the Jays lost seven straight to the Cubs, Brewers and Pirates. The Cubs' two wins against the Jays were the only two wins the Cubs got against any American League team other than the White Sox.

The White Sox caught them at the wrong time.

WhiteSox5187
09-11-2008, 11:52 PM
Yea, that's what I meant to quote.
While I don't think Jerry Owens is that guy, do you really think the Sox wouldn't be better served to go out and get a guy like an '05 Pods? A guy who gets on at a .350 clip, steals a lot of bases, can lay down a bunt, but not hit for a lot of power? Jesus, i think that's exactly what htis team needs, assuming the guy can stay healthy.

PeoriaSoxFan
09-11-2008, 11:54 PM
The Blue Jays are not a good team. They are a mediocre at best team who is hot right now.

I agree with almost everything you said, but the above quote is borderline ridiculous. They are over 20 games above 500 since Gaston took over. They would be 2 games in the standings behind us, but play in the AL east. They have won 10 of the last 11, including sweeps vs Minnesota and Tampa Bay. Plus, they just beat us, one of the best teams at home, in the majors, 4 out of 5 games. Check out the pitching stats they have and the low ERAs across the board, including an excellent pen. They go to Boston next. We will see how good they really are there. I am super disappointed at how we gave games away, but this is a good team we lost to.

drewcifer
09-11-2008, 11:55 PM
I think you would have better luck wishing for the Sox to go 4-6 and the Twins to go 0-10.

This team is gutless and spineless. This is 2006 all over again. It was sickening watching down the stretch in 06. They got punched in the mouth time and time again, and cowered in the corner. They didn't fight at all. There is no pride, no sense of urgency. "Eh, no biggie. We will win tomorrow."

This was a shameful effort. You absolutely cannot lose 3 of 4 ****ing game at home this time of the year. The Blue Jays are not a good team. They are a mediocre at best team who is hot right now. Marcum doesn't have an ERA of zero. He should have bit hit. It was the usual crap, swing for the fences. If the pitch is low and outside - swing even harder. Not surprisingly, they only started hitting once "game's over". Even after that, they had a great 8th and should have pushed across a few in the ninth. Ryan was primed for a pounding, but Swisher and Cabrera chased garbage. Thornton was bad, Wassermann was terrible. Ozzie had a really bad game, and shouldn't have put Wass in there, but nobody is really pitching well right now. The Jays have a lot of bad, bad hitters who the Sox pitching made look great these last four.

As I have said all along, the Twins are a bad team, and the only way they get to the playoffs is if the Sox choke. Well, they are choking up a storm. Luckily, the Twins are failing even worse. If the Sox hand this division to the Twins, it will be the 3rd Twins division title on Ozzie's watch, and the second time the Sox had a much better team but completely fell apart (you can't count 2004 because of Frank and Ordonez being out). If the Twins are handed another division title, heads need to roll. It is inexcusable. I only fear that Kenny might say "well, if only we had Carlos we would have won it". Bull****. This team is better than the Twins, and has been all year. If they lose this thing, if they don't ****ing care enough to put up a fight in a game like this, that is a direct reflection on their managing.

Agree with lots. But don't agree with these. Mags was the icing on the cake but we were gone anyway. And we weren't in first place in September's 2nd week either, not even close. We were close to 10 ****ing games back. This is on players, not Ozzie.

What do you tools want him to do? Floyd was $ for 7 1/3... we just got Linebrink back... The BP has to hold. THEY failed.

kittle42
09-11-2008, 11:55 PM
While I don't think Jerry Owens is that guy, do you really think the Sox wouldn't be better served to go out and get a guy like an '05 Pods? A guy who gets on at a .350 clip, steals a lot of bases, can lay down a bunt, but not hit for a lot of power? Jesus, i think that's exactly what htis team needs, assuming the guy can stay healthy.

We've known that since they wasted their best pieces acquiring Swisher. For some reason, they just couldn't find that fit this offseason - or during the season.

TheOldRoman
09-11-2008, 11:57 PM
I agree with almost everything you said, but the above quote is borderline ridiculous. They are over 20 games above 500 since Gaston took over. They would be 2 games in the standings behind us, but play in the AL east. They have won 10 of the last 11, including sweeps vs Minnesota and Tampa Bay. Plus, they just beat us, one of the best teams at home, in the majors, 4 out of 5 games. Check out the pitching stats they have and the low ERAs across the board, including an excellent pen. They go to Boston next. We will see how good they really are there. I am super disappointed at how we gave games away, but this is a good team we lost to.Over the course of the entire season, they haven't been better than mediocre. You want to know why they aren't quite competitive? Because their lineup is ****ing terrible. And it doesn't matter who the Sox play. These are four games at home in September, and they are in a pennant race. You have to at least split.

JB98
09-11-2008, 11:58 PM
I think you would have better luck wishing for the Sox to go 4-6 and the Twins to go 0-10.

This team is gutless and spineless. This is 2006 all over again. It was sickening watching down the stretch in 06. They got punched in the mouth time and time again, and cowered in the corner. They didn't fight at all. There is no pride, no sense of urgency. "Eh, no biggie. We will win tomorrow."

This was a shameful effort. You absolutely cannot lose 3 of 4 ****ing game at home this time of the year. The Blue Jays are not a good team. They are a mediocre at best team who is hot right now. Marcum doesn't have an ERA of zero. He should have bit hit. It was the usual crap, swing for the fences. If the pitch is low and outside - swing even harder. Not surprisingly, they only started hitting once "game's over". Even after that, they had a great 8th and should have pushed across a few in the ninth. Ryan was primed for a pounding, but Swisher and Cabrera chased garbage. Thornton was bad, Wassermann was terrible. Ozzie had a really bad game, and shouldn't have put Wass in there, but nobody is really pitching well right now. The Jays have a lot of bad, bad hitters who the Sox pitching made look great these last four.

As I have said all along, the Twins are a bad team, and the only way they get to the playoffs is if the Sox choke. Well, they are choking up a storm. Luckily, the Twins are failing even worse. If the Sox hand this division to the Twins, it will be the 3rd Twins division title on Ozzie's watch, and the second time the Sox had a much better team but completely fell apart (you can't count 2004 because of Frank and Ordonez being out). If the Twins are handed another division title, heads need to roll. It is inexcusable. I only fear that Kenny might say "well, if only we had Carlos we would have won it". Bull****. This team is better than the Twins, and has been all year. If they lose this thing, if they don't ****ing care enough to put up a fight in a game like this, that is a direct reflection on their managing.

I totally disagree with this. The Sox are overachievers. They are battling like hell. They fell behind 6-0 in the eighth. They scored four in eighth and got the tying run ON BASE in the ninth. That's not giving up. That's neither gutless nor cowardly.

The Sox gave their all. They just aren't very good. I think this team has more guts than any other team we've had, with the exception of '05.

WhiteSox5187
09-12-2008, 12:01 AM
We've known that since they wasted their best pieces acquiring Swisher. For some reason, they just couldn't find that fit this offseason - or during the season.
Swish has had some nice moments out there for us, but I'd say for the most part he's been a bust so far. He's a great guy and maybe next year he does vastly better, but I think this off season the key has to be finding guys who can set the table and do the little things. There were a lot of holes last off season that needed to be fixed and even though I ripped him a lot, i have to admit, Kenny did a damn good job fixing most of those holes. But this year he needs to do something about fixing this team's one dimensional offense. I'm not sure who he can get, but I'd love a guy like Brain Roberts (remember those people saying the only people who would be happy if we traded Fields for Roberts would be the guys in the Orioles front office? I doubt that deal would have gotten it done, but man, IF we could have made that deal i wish we would have), but I don't think we have a prayer of getting him. Isn't Figgins a free agent at the end of the year? Could we get him and have him play third?

hawkjt
09-12-2008, 12:02 AM
I do not buy that the Jays are a bad team right now. As was pointed out they have been beating the best teams in baseball in this streak. If the sox are choking then so are the red sox,yanks,and twins. You know this is a streaky sport. If the Sox were at full strength, we might have matched up but depleted like this? no.

It was just bad luck to play them now but the sox could have won 3 of 4 if they catch a break here and there.
I think they are fighting paws up.
Can the Jays pull a Rockies act? They are set up to actually make a run if they stay this hot.

PeoriaSoxFan
09-12-2008, 12:02 AM
Over the course of the entire season, they haven't been better than mediocre. You want to know why they aren't quite competitive? Because their lineup is ****ing terrible. And it doesn't matter who the Sox play. These are four games at home in September, and they are in a pennant race. You have to at least split.

Agreed, they should have split, but guess what? They didn't. After reading your prior post, I take back what I said, I don't agree with most of what you said. I am the first to rip on Ozzie for his playing of minor league players, etc. down the strecth, but I will take him any day as my manager. This team was picked to go nowhere and has been very good all year, despite a decimation of injuries as of late, including the leading MVP candidate. You say, you have to judge the Jays over the course of the entire season? Yes, you do. Like I said, they are 2 games behind us right now with 79 wins. As such, that is a fact, they are "better than mediocre." They all count, even the ones down the strech. They are a good team. Thanks for firing me up. Go Sox.

guillensdisciple
09-12-2008, 12:03 AM
I have no clue what wasserman is doing out there but the bullpen in general is in a fix at the moment. Every since Linebrink left the Sox bullpen has seemed to play without rhythm. They need to use Linebrink because he changes the whole dynamic of the sox team. We need a set up to Bobby and that is Linebrink, with him in the Sox have the best bullpen in the bigs. Dotel , Thornton, Linebrink, Jenks.
Absolute filth, hope no one is giving up, the sox are gonna be just fine.

It's Time
09-12-2008, 12:03 AM
It's sad to see JR as bad as he is up there. He needs to hang them up after this season. Did anyone think he was going to get a hit in the 9th?

WhiteSox5187
09-12-2008, 12:04 AM
I have no clue what wasserman is doing out there but the bullpen in general is in a fix at the moment. Every since Linebrink left the Sox bullpen has seemed to play without rhythm. They need to use Linebrink because he changes the whole dynamic of the sox team. We need a set up to Bobby and that is Linebrink, with him in the Sox have the best bullpen in the bigs. Dotel , Thornton, Linebrink, Jenks.
Absolute filth, hope no one is giving up, the sox are gonna be just fine.
I think the fact that Linebrink wasn't used suggests that he is not 100%.

WhiteSox5187
09-12-2008, 12:05 AM
It's sad to see JR as bad as he is up there. He needs to hang them up after this season. Did anyone think he was going to get a hit in the 9th?
No, but he might have been walked and that would have changed everything. Junior is looking like Willie Mays out there of late...but sadly I mean the Willie Mays circa 1973.

captain54
09-12-2008, 12:07 AM
I think you would have better luck wishing for the Sox to go 4-6 and the Twins to go 0-10.


This was a shameful effort. You absolutely cannot lose 3 of 4 ****ing game at home this time of the year. The Blue Jays are not a good team. They are a mediocre at best team who is hot right now. Marcum doesn't have an ERA of zero. He should have bit hit. It was the usual crap, swing for the fences. If the pitch is low and outside - swing even harder. Not surprisingly, they only started hitting once "game's over". Even after that, they had a great 8th and should have pushed across a few in the ninth. Ryan was primed for a pounding, but Swisher and Cabrera chased garbage. Thornton was bad, Wassermann was terrible. Ozzie had a really bad game, and shouldn't have put Wass in there, but nobody is really pitching well right now. The Jays have a lot of bad, bad hitters who the Sox pitching made look great these last four.

As I have said all along, the Twins are a bad team, and the only way they get to the playoffs is if the Sox choke. Well, they are choking up a storm. Luckily, the Twins are failing even worse. If the Sox hand this division to the Twins, it will be the 3rd Twins division title on Ozzie's watch, and the second time the Sox had a much better team but completely fell apart (you can't count 2004 because of Frank and Ordonez being out). If the Twins are handed another division title, heads need to roll. It is inexcusable. I only fear that Kenny might say "well, if only we had Carlos we would have won it". Bull****. This team is better than the Twins, and has been all year. If they lose this thing, if they don't ****ing care enough to put up a fight in a game like this, that is a direct reflection on their managing.

Pretty much the post of the year...

Cleveland and Detroit go into the tank in 2008...Minnesota loses Tori Hunter and Santana, and the Sox end up in first place for the majority of the year.

So for them to cough up the division to the Twins, will be very very difficult for Kenny and Ozzie to explain away. Thats probably why Ozzie looks so nervous lately..

drewcifer
09-12-2008, 12:08 AM
Swish has had some nice moments out there for us, but I'd say for the most part he's been a bust so far. He's a great guy and maybe next year he does vastly better, but I think this off season the key has to be finding guys who can set the table and do the little things. There were a lot of holes last off season that needed to be fixed and even though I ripped him a lot, i have to admit, Kenny did a damn good job fixing most of those holes. But this year he needs to do something about fixing this team's one dimensional offense. I'm not sure who he can get, but I'd love a guy like Brain Roberts (remember those people saying the only people who would be happy if we traded Fields for Roberts would be the guys in the Orioles front office? I doubt that deal would have gotten it done, but man, IF we could have made that deal i wish we would have), but I don't think we have a prayer of getting him. Isn't Figgins a free agent at the end of the year? Could we get him and have him play third?

I'd be totally fine with either one.

You get Roberts, let him play 2B, move Alexei to SS, pack up Crede, ...I don't know - keep Uribe and Fields. Funny - we had two 3Bs with mega-value and now they are both worthless.

Or, Figgins, and do any of the above putting people where they feel comfortable since he can play anything from 2B to 3B and he is also a legit leadoff.

Having said, Kenny we'll get a deal done to land Vizquel at SS next year.

TheOldRoman
09-12-2008, 12:12 AM
Agree with lots. But don't agree with these. Mags was the icing on the cake but we were gone anyway. And we weren't in first place in September's 2nd week either, not even close. We were close to 10 ****ing games back. This is on players, not Ozzie.

What do you tools want him to do? Floyd was $ for 7 1/3... we just got Linebrink back... The BP has to hold. THEY failed.Hmm, I'm not sure throwing around insults is the best way to go about this. First of all, Ordonez and Frank were done for the season in July. Yes, we were competetive into August, but that is half the season without your two best hitters. That won't work out well. And I didn't say we were in Sept, I was saying that was the one season we weren't, and it was for reasons beyond Ozzie's control.

The manager is responsible to get his players ready. It only goes so far, that is true. However, not counting 2004, the Sox have had huge collapses twice in Ozzie's tenure (not counting 2005, which was just a bad month). Why is it that Ozzie's players go into prolonged slumps? Isn't he supposed to be a master motivator? We shouldn't see the type of sloppy, effortless games we have seen lately. Furthermore, a huge portion of the offensive problems are on the shoulders of Walker. Even after throwing him under the bus, Ozzie has stuck by him. This is like a Jauron/Shoop type of thing. As long as Ozzis is here, he won't fire Walker, and he has say over all coaches. Ozzie made bad decisions in tonight's game and in the first game Tuesday. It isn't like he has been without flaws. Fair or not, when a team plays poorly, the manager takes the fall.

And if you read my post, you would see that I said Ozzie didn't have all that much of a choice on who to put in. I didn't say he was wrong for leaving Gavin in. I said, although Wassermann is terrible and should never pitch in that situation under normal circumstances, our entire pen outside of Jenks has been really bad lately.

Frankfan4life
09-12-2008, 12:13 AM
It's sad to see JR as bad as he is up there. He needs to hang them up after this season. Did anyone think he was going to get a hit in the 9th?I always hope he's going to get a clutch homer or hit, but I'm never confident that he'll get one. I know how much he wants a WS championship to go with his other many achievements. But, he should retire after this season. It's hard for his fans, which I am, to see him continue to struggle.

PeoriaSoxFan
09-12-2008, 12:14 AM
I have been predominantly negative all night in my posts, but I am going to sleep on this tonight..........we are 1 game up with 16 to play. If you would have told me that in Jan, Feb, Mar, April, May, June and maybe July and Aug, I would have been a happy man. So here we sit. Things have to change to get this thing home. Ozzie has to tighthen his lineup/bullpen rotations..the starters need to remain steady, with improvements in the pen....JD and Alexei need to resume their hot hitting...Swisher and Jr need to show a pulse...and we need to have some luck with some of these injured players coming back. Sounds like a lot, but it is all within reason. Minn has a 10 game trip coming up, including games vs. Cleveland (who is playing well) and Tampa Bay.

Say your prayers tonight and include the Sox in them. Positive thoughts, positive thoughts....

LoveYourSuit
09-12-2008, 12:15 AM
I totally disagree with this. The Sox are overachievers. They are battling like hell. They fell behind 6-0 in the eighth. They scored four in eighth and got the tying run ON BASE in the ninth. That's not giving up. That's neither gutless nor cowardly.

The Sox gave their all. They just aren't very good. I think this team has more guts than any other team we've had, with the exception of '05.


Yup, 5th highest payroll in all of baseball at over $120 million. :rolleyes:

That's overachieving in your book?


OK

drewcifer
09-12-2008, 12:18 AM
Hmm, I'm not sure throwing around insults is the best way to go about this. First of all, Ordonez and Frank were done for the season in July. Yes, we were competetive into August, but that is half the season without your two best hitters. That won't work out well. And I didn't say we were in Sept, I was saying that was the one season we weren't, and it was for reasons beyond Ozzie's control.

The manager is responsible to get his players ready. It only goes so far, that is true. However, not counting 2004, the Sox have had huge collapses twice in Ozzie's tenure (not counting 2005, which was just a bad month). Why is it that Ozzie's players go into prolonged slumps? Isn't he supposed to be a master motivator? We shouldn't see the type of sloppy, effortless games we have seen lately. Furthermore, a huge portion of the offensive problems are on the shoulders of Walker. Even after throwing him under the bus, Ozzie has stuck by him. This is like a Jauron/Shoop type of thing. As long as Ozzis is here, he won't fire Walker, and he has say over all coaches. Ozzie made bad decisions in tonight's game and in the first game Tuesday. It isn't like he has been without flaws. Fair or not, when a team plays poorly, the manager takes the fall.

And if you read my post, you would see that I said Ozzie didn't have all that much of a choice on who to put in. I didn't say he was wrong for leaving Gavin in. I said, although Wassermann is terrible and should never pitch in that situation under normal circumstances, our entire pen outside of Jenks has been really bad lately.

Settle down, you old...Roman. I picked two things in your post that sucked. And they do.

I gave up on the Walker blame-game a long time ago. We've got **** tons of veteran guys. Nobody is getting ruined here.

We've got key player injuries to deal with, and have to be careful with those we get back (linebrink).

Ozzie is still managing a first place team and after tonight he STILL is.

Are you?

Frankfan4life
09-12-2008, 12:19 AM
I have been predominantly negative all night in my posts, but I am going to sleep on this tonight..........we are 1 game up with 16 to play. If you would have told me that in Jan, Feb, Mar, April, May, June and maybe July and Aug, I would have been a happy man. So here we sit. Things have to change to get this thing home. Ozzie has to tighthen his lineup/bullpen rotations..the starters need to remain steady, with improvements in the pen....JD and Alexei need to resume their hot hitting...Swisher and Jr need to show a pulse...and we need to have some luck with some of these injured players coming back. Sounds like a lot, but it is all within reason. Minn has a 10 game trip coming up, including games vs. Cleveland (who is playing well) and Tampa Bay.

Say your prayers tonight and include the Sox in them. Positive thoughts, positive thoughts....These are some very good points with which to end this evening. I'm going to take your advice.

Blueprint1
09-12-2008, 12:19 AM
I am sure it was the umps fault ! :rolleyes:

Thanks for putting words in my mouth. You come around and make your stupid remarks all the time. If I didn't say it don't give me this ****. :rolleyes:

TheOldRoman
09-12-2008, 12:20 AM
Agreed, they should have split, but guess what? They didn't. After reading your prior post, I take back what I said, I don't agree with most of what you said. I am the first to rip on Ozzie for his playing of minor league players, etc. down the strecth, but I will take him any day as my manager. This team was picked to go nowhere and has been very good all year, despite a decimation of injuries as of late, including the leading MVP candidate. You say, you have to judge the Jays over the course of the entire season? Yes, you do. Like I said, they are 2 games behind us right now with 79 wins. As such, that is a fact, they are "better than mediocre." They all count, even the ones down the strech. They are a good team. Thanks for firing me up. Go Sox. Actually, I am generally one of Ozzie's biggest defenders. The point remains, there have been many times when he made very bad pitching choices, repeatedly called for bunts when our team is horrible at them, and continually putting players in situations they have shown they can't handle. If the team does hand the division away for the second time on his watch, in the same collapsing fashion, he has to shoulder some of the blame.

Many people are saying this year is a success because people picked them to finish 4th. I don't care where the hell people thought they would finish. That is irrelevant. With the exception of Floyd, Danks, Quentin, and Ramirez, this team has underperformed the entire year. They are in a situation to win, and they are not doing it right now. They haven't looked like a really good team in a long time.

drewcifer
09-12-2008, 12:20 AM
Yup, 5th highest payroll in all of baseball at over $120 million. :rolleyes:

That's overachieving in your book?


OK

:rolleyes:

We've been over this 1,000 times... are you serious? An arbitrary comment about payroll?

kittle42
09-12-2008, 12:25 AM
:rolleyes:

We've been over this 1,000 times... are you serious? An arbitrary comment about payroll?

There was an argument about attendance in the game thread, so it's fitting.

kitekrazy
09-12-2008, 12:28 AM
At some point a lot of this has to be put on Kenny as well.

Kenny went out this year and dealt our 2 best prospects for Swisher. Argue or not if it was a fair trade, it was not what we needed. We needed an OF (namely CF), who could lead off. We had the perfect number 2 hitter in Cabrera. Kenny instead decides our 2 hitter should lead off and plug our free swining 3-6 hitters 2-9.

Trade deadline comes, we have a shaky bullpen, we have an injured set up man, and we have no lead off hitter or team speed whatsoever. So Kenny decides the best move is deal from a weakness for a slow, poor performing, over the hill former superstar instead of the 2 things we need most. Not saying Massett would really be any better, but yes, he is better than the triple A crap we keep running out there. For most the year the sox have won by just jamming the square pegs into the round hole as hard as they could, but it is not the recipe to win.

That sure seems plausible if you are in a fantasy league.

2 best prospects?

He tried to get a CF in the off season.

Where was that bullpen help to be found during the trading deadline?

It's not as easy as you think. This was a projected 4th place team and they are in 1st. They lost a starting pitcher, 3rd baseman, possible MVP, now a 1st baseman.

TheOldRoman
09-12-2008, 12:30 AM
Settle down, you old...Roman. I picked two things in your post that sucked. And they do.

I gave up on the Walker blame-game a long time ago. We've got **** tons of veteran guys. Nobody is getting ruined here.

We've got key player injuries to deal with, and have to be careful with those we get back (linebrink).

Ozzie is still managing a first place team and after tonight he STILL is.

Are you?No, you were wrong. Frank went on the DL July 10. Ordonez went on the DL for the final time July 23. On that day, the Sox were a half game out. The Sox finished 9 games out. If you want to believe having an out of shape Carl Everett and Joe Borchard replace those two didn't hurt the Sox, go right ahead.

kitekrazy
09-12-2008, 12:32 AM
It's sad to see JR as bad as he is up there. He needs to hang them up after this season. Did anyone think he was going to get a hit in the 9th?

They are aging him a lot quicker playing CF. This one still baffles me. Put him in one of the corners.

drewcifer
09-12-2008, 12:32 AM
No, you were wrong. Frank went on the DL July 10. Ordonez went on the DL for the final time July 23. On that day, the Sox were a half game out. The Sox finished 9 games out. If you want to believe having an out of shape Carl Everett and Joe Borchard replace those two didn't hurt the Sox, go right ahead.

Why would I? YOU are the one who is relating now to 2004 as a subtle example of Ozzie's failures.

kitekrazy
09-12-2008, 12:38 AM
It's the manager's job to put players into situations where they can succeed. On any other team, Wasserman mops up. Mostly cause sucks. I bet Ozzie thought Wasserman changed his name to Linebrink. Keep Thornton in, use Dotel, use Carrasco, use a ML pitcher! Bullpen management was just bad tonight.

It's a crap shoot lately. The Sox didn't have anything on the board so it probably didn't matter. He was probably thinking more about the Detroit series.

TheOldRoman
09-12-2008, 12:38 AM
I totally disagree with this. The Sox are overachievers. They are battling like hell. They fell behind 6-0 in the eighth. They scored four in eighth and got the tying run ON BASE in the ninth. That's not giving up. That's neither gutless nor cowardly.

The Sox gave their all. They just aren't very good. I think this team has more guts than any other team we've had, with the exception of '05.As I said before, I don't care where people thought this team would finish. They have the talent to win this division this year. Other than Alexei, Danks, Gavin, Bobby and Quentin, the entire team has underperformed (Linebrink and his injury doesn't count). While I liked seeing that offense in the 8th, it was too little too late. Over the last several years, I have seen a lot of games like this. The offense doesn't start swinging the bats until they are well behind. I guess at that point, they figure "just go up there and get a hit" instead of swinging for the fences every time. The offense has been horrible of late. And we have seen too many games where the offense looked like it didn't want to be there. The Sox are a horrible fundamental team, they play bad defense, and have no situational hitting. They have given away games the entire year with boneheaded errors. Regardless of my thoughts on the last month and a half of the season, they should have more wins than they do right now.

TheOldRoman
09-12-2008, 12:39 AM
Why would I? YOU are the one who is relating now to 2004 as a subtle example of Ozzie's failures.Once again, read my post. I said that you couldn't blame him for 2004. The 2004 team was screwed BECAUSE OF THE INJURIES. We don't know that they would have won the division with those guys healthy, but their loss did cost the Sox dearly.

kitekrazy
09-12-2008, 12:41 AM
[quote=LoveYourSuit;2036042]In strengths you can add:

2. We crap all over quality starts by our starters

Bingo. Look at what has happened to big game Javy about the last 5 starts.

kitekrazy
09-12-2008, 12:43 AM
You could use Fields at first. Last time I checked, he was just as useless as Swish...

Wouldn't make a difference though...

They could give Josh an opportunity to make an error at every position.

kitekrazy
09-12-2008, 12:44 AM
Yes it could. Best post I read so far.

As ****ty as we look, we are still on top. Somehow, someway.

When the Cubs lost 5 in a row they gained a 1/2 game. Luck has a part in this.

drewcifer
09-12-2008, 12:47 AM
Once again, read my post. I said that you couldn't blame him for 2004. The 2004 team was screwed BECAUSE OF THE INJURIES. We don't know that they would have won the division with those guys healthy, but their loss did cost the Sox dearly.

And read mine. You are comparing APPLES to T-BONES. You are pissed about your team having a 1 game lead with injuries - blaming everyone from our manager to our hitting coach. But now you flash back 4 years and conclude that from 7/23 to 10/1 in 2004; we'd have not fallen 9.5 games back because of 2 hitters.

Silly ass **** argument.

hi im skot
09-12-2008, 12:50 AM
Sigh.

WhiteSox5187
09-12-2008, 12:52 AM
That sure seems plausible if you are in a fantasy league.

2 best prospects?

He tried to get a CF in the off season.

Where was that bullpen help to be found during the trading deadline?

It's not as easy as you think. This was a projected 4th place team and they are in 1st. They lost a starting pitcher, 3rd baseman, possible MVP, now a 1st baseman.
Perhaps I'm mistaken but didn't the Rays acquire Chad Bradford AFTER the deadline? Wasn't John Lannon available? As was Jon Rauch (although he burned a lot of bridges when he was here)?

Dick Allen
09-12-2008, 12:53 AM
It's sad to see JR as bad as he is up there. He needs to hang them up after this season. Did anyone think he was going to get a hit in the 9th? Well, he should have walked on four pitches but the HP ump decided to do his Helen Keller act. That was a key factor in the 9th inning failure, though something tells me they would have failed anyway.

Noneck
09-12-2008, 12:55 AM
Perhaps I'm mistaken but didn't the Rays acquire Chad Bradford AFTER the deadline?
Before and he was passed on by the Sox, a mistake then and showing now.

WhiteSox5187
09-12-2008, 12:56 AM
Well, he should have walked on four pitches but the HP ump decided to do his Helen Keller act. That was a key factor in the 9th inning failure, though something tells me they would have failed anyways.
When you have a guy batting in a key situation like that and the best possible outcome is a walk, that doesn't bode well for that hitter. Junior is waaay past his prime and I fail to see what he's really contributing to the team.

WhiteSox5187
09-12-2008, 12:57 AM
Before and he was passed on by the Sox, a mistake then and showing now.
I agree.

Dick Allen
09-12-2008, 01:00 AM
When you have a guy batting in a key situation like that and the best possible outcome is a walk, that doesn't bode well for that hitter. Junior is waaay past his prime and I fail to see what he's really contributing to the team.I agree with you. The fact remains, he should have been on first base. Very aggravating. Also aggravating that he isn't performing anywhere near where was even with the Reds this year.

TheOldRoman
09-12-2008, 01:09 AM
And read mine. You are comparing APPLES to T-BONES. You are pissed about your team having a 1 game lead with injuries - blaming everyone from our manager to our hitting coach. But now you flash back 4 years and conclude that from 7/23 to 10/23; we'd have not fallen 9.5 games.

Silly ass **** argument.
Maybe you forgot the exchange. I posted "it will be the 3rd Twins division title on Ozzie's watch, and the second time the Sox had a much better team but completely fell apart (you can't count 2004 because of Frank and Ordonez being out)." To which you responded:
Agree with lots. But don't agree with these. Mags was the icing on the cake but we were gone anyway. And we weren't in first place in September's 2nd week either, not even close.
I think you misread it or something. I have no idea what us not being in 1st place in the middle of Sept had to do with anything. I said that we should throw 2004 out the window, not count it, because of the injuries. You said that the Sox were "gone anyway", even though they were .5 games out when he went on the DL.

To summarize: I say forget about 2004 because of the injuries. You say we were bad anyway. I reiterate my point, that 2004 shouldn't be counted against Ozzie, and say we were competitive before the injuries. You then blow some smoke, just calling my post dumb. I responded with number showing that the Sox lost 8.5 games after Maggs and Frank got injured, and you think I am trying to say that is Ozzie's fault.:?:

I have no idea what point you are trying to make. I said the injuries hurt the team greatly. I didn't say they were a great team or would have won the division for certain without the injuries, and I didn't blame Ozzie for the injuries. I made point about Ozzie's teams handing the Twins the division twice, but before anyone could toss 2004 out there, I said I believed he couldn't have been blamed for it. I have no idea what you are talking about.

kitekrazy
09-12-2008, 01:20 AM
I agree with you. The fact remains, he should have been on first base. Very aggravating. Also aggravating that he isn't performing anywhere near where was even with the Reds this year.

I think that just shows that the pitching is much better in the AL.

thomas35forever
09-12-2008, 01:24 AM
Just got back from the game. Tough to swallow this one after Gavin pitched the way he did for so long. I would've walked Scutaro in the eighth since he's the Nick Punto of the Blue Jays. We're still one game up in the division. Nothing to do but forget about this series and move on to the Tigers.

guillensdisciple
09-12-2008, 01:32 AM
Alright you guys are driving me nuts. We might have a payroll of a high caliber team but in all seriousness no on I mean NO ONE thought the sox would be here right now. I still have the ESPN magazine article saying the sox will be in a cellar fight with the Royals. Funny how that ended up, Royals are in a cellar fight... with the tigers the pre- season god's that everyone thought would destroy all of baseball.

One thing that is irritating me in this thread is the fact that some are calling out the sox due to their "lack of fight". What the hell are you talking about? That is all the White Sox have been doing all year, fighting! I am pretty sure you would have liked it better if the Sox just rolled over and died. You ask for them to not swing at crap to beat the Jays, because they should have beaten them. NO!!! Did you catch a glimpse of the ERA's on the first two relief pitchers? The first guy Downs, came in with a 1.17 ERA, then the other guy 1.7. You expect the Sox to light them up for 8 runs in one inning when no one has lit them up for more then 1 or 2 the whole year. The Sox DID everything they could to win this game. It is a shame that such a great start was ultimately spoiled by the bullpen but we know that they are the sox vice as of now.

That will be fixed. Unlike the twins bullpen the Sox bullpen actually has 3 or 4 good relievers. If you look at the twinkies, besides Nathan who do you know that delivers when he needs to... Pat Neshek?

There is something wrong with the sox, but it isn't their effort. Things are just hitting the fan right now because we are hitting deadly teams on the road and at home. Look at what happened to us on the road, played the orioles won 2 of 3, went to Boston won 1 of 3 and they are chasing the rays and were absolutely obliterating the ball, go to Cleveland to face a team that has been doing well since the Sabathia trade win 1 of 3 (we had to face Cliff Lee too if anyone remembers).

What happens when we get back, beat the best team in the American League 2 of 3 games and could have possibly swept. Then the jays come into town, the american league equivalent of the Astros, what happened? They were exactly what they were supposed to be... HOT. So they took 3 of 4 and we did a hell of a job tonight against them.

It was the luck of the draw, the twins had to face the jays too, and what did the jays too, knocked them the **** out.

I will give all the pessimists this; if the sox can't win 2 of 3 against the tigers they have serious issues regardless if they are in first place. I would say a sweep is in order to establish some more home cooking as this was by FAR the most disappointing series I have seen this year because of our dominance at home.


ANOTHER THING!! We have been spoiled so much by the Sox dominance at home that this just builds up, we expected the Sox to be the spoiler to the Jays when it is impossible to stop a train.

If you remember in 05' the indians came in and beat us 2 of 3. We won one game, just one game. They were hot, then they fell apart.... it is all about who you play and when you play. The sox are playing detroit - a team that has nothing to play for other then acting as a spoiler, the yankees- who have never looked so dead in a season and finally the twins who are as liable to lose to the sox at home as the sox were to the jays these past four games.

Look at what detroit did to them at home, and Detroit couldn't even beat Oakland after that series.

Both teams are struggling, if you want my answer on who is struggling more, without a doubt it would have to be the twinkies. They are young, they really have no business in this, but they have a coach who also wants his team to battle.

For all those Ozzie haters back the hell off, who do you want to coach this team? No other person could facilitate the game to his players as much as Ozzie does. What is going to happen next year because of the trust Ozzie has in his crew, you will probably see Swish become a great player, I don't think he is used to playing in situations like this, where all the pressure is literally on his back. California is too loose, nobody cares over there, Swish was the wonder boy in Oakland. Now he is feeling the heat and is trying to deal with it.

Next to New York,Chicago is the most unforgiving city in the United States.

This team has so much to look forward to besides just this year and you guys want to get rid of Ozzie- the glue to this team. Just look at the potential you have and the core of great young players. Two young pitchers who have never pitched this many innings in their careers. Two young hitters who have never played this many games in their careers. Returning veterans who fight and will continue fighting for the team. Two verteran pitchers who are extremely consistent.

We have on starting pitching spot that has to be plugged, a short stop position, a center field, and possibly a third base.

Kenny will find the right players to plug the holes, I expect Roberts at second and Ramirez at short. Urine will return as our consistent third basemen, and why the hell not? Our center fielder will be Swisher whether you like it or not and he will be fine.


I don't want to dive ahead here, but what we must understand is that right now is not the end of the world, we are in a good spot. Let's play some damn baseball, we have a lot of people who think we will amount to nothing this year. Let's prove them wrong- that is what the Sox are in general. A team that is never payed attention to, a team that plays with a certain fire in their eyes because they will always be looked down upon. Would you have it any other way though?

No.


Go White Sox!!!

guillensdisciple
09-12-2008, 01:34 AM
Damn that is one long ass post.

captain54
09-12-2008, 01:48 AM
A

Next to New York,Chicago is the most unforgiving city in the United States.




Until the Sox won in 05', Chicago had not seen a World Series Championship in 88 years, yet fans still attended games, supported their teams, etc.. I'd say that's pretty forgiving.

guillensdisciple
09-12-2008, 01:49 AM
Until the Sox won in 05', Chicago had not seen a World Series Championship in 88 years, yet fans still attended games, supported their teams, etc.. I'd say that's pretty forgiving.

Media, media is unforgiving... I should have said that when I wrote it.

Noneck
09-12-2008, 01:56 AM
Two verteran pitchers who are extremely consistent.

Yes they are, One is 13-11, the other is 11-13. Being a .500 pitcher is consistent.


We have on starting pitching spot that has to be plugged, a short stop position, a center field, and possibly a third base.

That is 1/3 of a lineup.



I expect Roberts at second and Ramirez at short.

And the Sox have what it takes to get Roberts without losing anything for your next years club?


Urine will return as our consistent third basemen, and why the hell not?
I hope he hasn't pissed away his opportunity

guillensdisciple
09-12-2008, 02:03 AM
I admit the sox farm system isn't exactly stacked but a trade for Roberts should be possible. I don't think the Orioles are expecting him to be part of the team for much longer. They were hearing trade offers from the sox prior to this with the same team. Makes you wonder what the sox had to offer then that we can't offer now.

Mark Buerhle has a nice ERA, pitches his best when we need him the most, and always floats at 220 innings or more pitched. Vazquez is better then his ERA suggests as he has been pitching well as of late. He is an innings magnet as well as a strike out machine. My main point is that the sox have a hell of a 1-2-3-4.

The fifth spot, second base, and perhaps a bit more bullpen help are the only two things that will probably help.


Yes uribe (urine) should play third next year.


Also I forgot to say- I wish Anderson got another chance at center, he looks so good and I just don't want him to hurt the sox in another uniform.

Nellie_Fox
09-12-2008, 02:03 AM
Next to New York,Chicago is the most unforgiving city in the United States.Did Philadelphia secede from the Union?

guillensdisciple
09-12-2008, 02:07 AM
Did Philadelphia secede from the Union?

if there is a joke somewhere in there I forgot to laugh at it. The grammar might not have been great but my point was made (I am not writing a formal essay). I don't understand the point of what you said.

Foulke You
09-12-2008, 02:10 AM
It's sad to see JR as bad as he is up there. He needs to hang them up after this season. Did anyone think he was going to get a hit in the 9th?
Griffey had the bat taken out of his hands by the umpire in that 9th inning AB. The first strike was below the knees but at least over the plate. That called strike 2 on him was ridiculous. Below the knees and off the plate by about 5 inches. It changed what looked to be a sure walk or a sure hitter's count into "defensive swing mode".

Also, to pick on Griffey when Swisher and Cabrera looked sick in the inning and the rest of our offense took the first 7 innings off is kind've silly. I liked the ABs I saw out of him in Baltimore and Boston. He wasn't hitting HRs but he was definitely getting his hits. I still think Griffey has at least one hot streak in him this year. We'll see if I'm right.

Noneck
09-12-2008, 02:11 AM
if there is a joke somewhere in there I forgot to laugh at it. The grammar might not have been great but my point was made (I am not writing a formal essay). I don't understand the point of what you said.
What he is saying is that Philly is not forgiving. And as long as The Prof is around expect your grammar and spelling to be scrutinized. Class is always in session.

LoveYourSuit
09-12-2008, 02:14 AM
:rolleyes:

We've been over this 1,000 times... are you serious? An arbitrary comment about payroll?


Well, to make a blanket statement as the poster said that the "Sox are overacheivers" one whould have to counter with the payroll arguement.

You think Kenny was expecting this team to tank and battle KC for last place when he submitted his budget proposal to JR? I'm sure Kenny was not expething this team "to overacheive." He expected this team to win and win big.

Foulke You
09-12-2008, 02:14 AM
What is the deal with Linebrink?
I have a feeling that he must still be hurting. I keep waiting to hear an announcement that he is shut down for the rest of the season. We only have 16 games left. If he hasn't pitched this week, I question whether we'll see him anymore this year.

Noneck
09-12-2008, 02:16 AM
I have a feeling that he must still be hurting. I keep waiting to hear an announcemnet that he is shut down for the rest of the season. We only have 16 games left. If he hasn't pitched this week, I question whether we'll see him anymore this year.

I wonder why I see him warming in the pen. I don't remember if he was today but he was yesterday.

Nellie_Fox
09-12-2008, 02:18 AM
Did Philadelphia secede from the Union?

if there is a joke somewhere in there I forgot to laugh at it. The grammar might not have been great but my point was made (I am not writing a formal essay). I don't understand the point of what you said.My point was that Philadelphia fans have the reputation of being the most hostile, unforgiving fans in the country. Chicago fans aren't even close.

guillensdisciple
09-12-2008, 02:19 AM
What he is saying is that Philly is not forgiving. And as long as The Prof is around expect your grammar and spelling to be scrutinized. Class is always in session.

Well in that case you could include Philadelphia and Boston. They are very tough on their teams too.

I never realized that you have to write such serious posts. Oh well, it will make school easier.

guillensdisciple
09-12-2008, 02:20 AM
My point was that Philadelphia fans have the reputation of being the most hostile, unforgiving fans in the country. Chicago fans aren't even close.
Noted.

Foulke You
09-12-2008, 02:22 AM
My point was that Philadelphia fans have the reputation of being the most hostile, unforgiving fans in the country. Chicago fans aren't even close.
Chicago fans usually leave their sacks of batteries at home.:tongue:

doublem23
09-12-2008, 02:32 AM
Chicago fans usually leave their sacks of batteries at home.:tongue:

We have also yet to boo Santa Claus.

JB98
09-12-2008, 03:05 AM
As I said before, I don't care where people thought this team would finish. They have the talent to win this division this year. Other than Alexei, Danks, Gavin, Bobby and Quentin, the entire team has underperformed (Linebrink and his injury doesn't count). While I liked seeing that offense in the 8th, it was too little too late. Over the last several years, I have seen a lot of games like this. The offense doesn't start swinging the bats until they are well behind. I guess at that point, they figure "just go up there and get a hit" instead of swinging for the fences every time. The offense has been horrible of late. And we have seen too many games where the offense looked like it didn't want to be there. The Sox are a horrible fundamental team, they play bad defense, and have no situational hitting. They have given away games the entire year with boneheaded errors. Regardless of my thoughts on the last month and a half of the season, they should have more wins than they do right now.

You are actually supporting my argument better than your own. You're absolutely right: The Sox are a horrible fundamental team, they play bad defense and the situational hitting is awful. Despite all that, they have compiled a record of 81-65 to date.

How have they done it? Certainly not with great fundamental play. This team battles. They respond well to adversity. They don't let losing streaks get out of control. Unlike last year's team or the year before, I feel they are prepared to compete each and every day. They aren't "gutless and spineless" as you assert. Quite the opposite, IMO. When they go up against a good team, their glaring weaknesses get exposed. This much is true. But it's just absurd to me to say they aren't trying hard. Absurd.

I picked this club to finish below .500. I didn't think they'd be very good. In fact, I still don't think they are very good. But there they are, in first place on September 12. Somehow they are still in first place. And if they are still in first place 16 days from now, they'll be in the playoffs, even though they suck in several critical areas. I don't give a **** what their payroll is either. They are overachieving this season.

Frater Perdurabo
09-12-2008, 07:08 AM
Whatever happens for the rest of this season, I really hope that KW invests more resources into the bullpen, so that it's not filled with AAA flotsam and KC castoffs.

WSox597
09-12-2008, 07:08 AM
Media, media is unforgiving... I should have said that when I wrote it.

Yeah, for every team in Chicago, save one. There, everything is sunshine and happiness.

It's enough to gag a maggot.

white sox bill
09-12-2008, 08:02 AM
Sorry USA'ers but the Canadian in me likes "O Canada" better anyhow!:smile:

But what a pathetic game. Tuned in from time to time and enjoyed until the meltdown. Ugly.

But the silver lining--I like the way this team fought back after down a touchdown. Last yr final would have been at least 6-0.

Could we be one of the worst fundamentally teams in history to win the Pennant?

I predict comeback this weekend

kittle42
09-12-2008, 08:21 AM
Just got back from the game. Tough to swallow this one after Gavin pitched the way he did for so long. I would've walked Scutaro in the eighth since he's the Nick Punto of the Blue Jays. We're still one game up in the division. Nothing to do but forget about this series and move on to the Tigers.

The day you walk Scutaro to get to two hitters behind him who are much, much better is the day you should lose your job.

That would be like walking Punto with Mauer and Morneau coming up.

I don't care what he's hitting against the Sox - you just don't do it.

TommyJohn
09-12-2008, 08:26 AM
I totally disagree with this. The Sox are overachievers. They are battling like hell. They fell behind 6-0 in the eighth. They scored four in eighth and got the tying run ON BASE in the ninth. That's not giving up. That's neither gutless nor cowardly.

The Sox gave their all. They just aren't very good. I think this team has more guts than any other team we've had, with the exception of '05.

Why let facts stand in the way of a good pity party?

kittle42
09-12-2008, 08:26 AM
if there is a joke somewhere in there I forgot to laugh at it. The grammar might not have been great but my point was made (I am not writing a formal essay). I don't understand the point of what you said.

Yikes. He's saying Philly is less forgiving.

HIJACK: I really, really, really hate the "I don't need to spell correctly or use proper English because it is OK to sound like an idiot since I am not in school or getting paid for it" argument. This thinking continues to contribute to the general decline of intelligence in society.

kittle42
09-12-2008, 08:29 AM
How have they done it? Certainly not with great fundamental play. This team battles. They respond well to adversity. They don't let losing streaks get out of control. Unlike last year's team or the year before, I feel they are prepared to compete each and every day. They aren't "gutless and spineless" as you assert.

That "gutless" think that has been tossed around here for months is stupid and meaningless. It's like saying someone or some team is "Chicago tough." It is dumb and really means nothing.

beasly213
09-12-2008, 09:31 AM
I think you would have better luck wishing for the Sox to go 4-6 and the Twins to go 0-10.

This team is gutless and spineless. This is 2006 all over again. It was sickening watching down the stretch in 06. They got punched in the mouth time and time again, and cowered in the corner. They didn't fight at all. There is no pride, no sense of urgency. "Eh, no biggie. We will win tomorrow."

This was a shameful effort. You absolutely cannot lose 3 of 4 ****ing game at home this time of the year. The Blue Jays are not a good team. They are a mediocre at best team who is hot right now. Marcum doesn't have an ERA of zero. He should have bit hit. It was the usual crap, swing for the fences. If the pitch is low and outside - swing even harder. Not surprisingly, they only started hitting once "game's over". Even after that, they had a great 8th and should have pushed across a few in the ninth. Ryan was primed for a pounding, but Swisher and Cabrera chased garbage. Thornton was bad, Wassermann was terrible. Ozzie had a really bad game, and shouldn't have put Wass in there, but nobody is really pitching well right now. The Jays have a lot of bad, bad hitters who the Sox pitching made look great these last four.

As I have said all along, the Twins are a bad team, and the only way they get to the playoffs is if the Sox choke. Well, they are choking up a storm. Luckily, the Twins are failing even worse. If the Sox hand this division to the Twins, it will be the 3rd Twins division title on Ozzie's watch, and the second time the Sox had a much better team but completely fell apart (you can't count 2004 because of Frank and Ordonez being out). If the Twins are handed another division title, heads need to roll. It is inexcusable. I only fear that Kenny might say "well, if only we had Carlos we would have won it". Bull****. This team is better than the Twins, and has been all year. If they lose this thing, if they don't ****ing care enough to put up a fight in a game like this, that is a direct reflection on their managing.


Ok honestly, sit back and read that. This is the most ridiculious case of "Chicago Tough" I've ever seen. What do you want the team to do? Shout at the umpires and get tossed out of games? Or maybe punch a few walls after a loss? Maybe if they show a little more "Passion" they'll play harder and get key hits in the clutch because their so jacked up with pride.

So maybe if they get mad more often they'll play harder and not only that play better? Come on, you seriously don't belive that do you?

The team lost to a better team that has owned them all year. In the course of a baseball season there is always a team that you just can't beat, for us this year it was the Jays. Unfortunatley for us they came into town in September.

The good news for us though is we start a series with Detroit this weekend, a team WE have owned all year.

So please enough with the "We need to show more fire" argument, and let this team be what it is. A team that hits home runs and has good starts by their pitchers. If they don't hit home runs they won't win. That is how this team is built so please don't expect anything more.

The Dude
09-12-2008, 09:45 AM
Very annoying game to be at. Thornton really has dropped off the deep end as regards to getting outs when we really need him to. Floyd pitched great besides that 8th inning and I just wish we could have spotted him a run or two early on. On a related note, Swisher is horrible. :angry:

KenBerryGrab
09-12-2008, 09:52 AM
Just got back from the game. Tough to swallow this one after Gavin pitched the way he did for so long. I would've walked Scutaro in the eighth since he's the Nick Punto of the Blue Jays. We're still one game up in the division. Nothing to do but forget about this series and move on to the Tigers.

Haven't scanned the whole thread, but after Floyd pitched over the leadoff double in the seventh, I would have patted him on the back and sent Thornton out to start the eighth, rightly-lefty, who cares. He got that big strikeout with the bases loaded, then Overbay got to him, but Matt's got a chance if he comes into the inning clean.

Tragg
09-12-2008, 10:30 AM
I picked this club to finish below .500. I didn't think they'd be very good.
And you'd have been correct but for Quentin, Ramirez, Floyd....no one predicted the production from them. They saved us from some otherwise mediocre (if not poor) offseason moves and fighting with the INdians and Tigers for 2nd, if not the Royals for the cellar.

guillensdisciple
09-12-2008, 11:25 AM
Yikes. He's saying Philly is less forgiving.

HIJACK: I really, really, really hate the "I don't need to spell correctly or use proper English because it is OK to sound like an idiot since I am not in school or getting paid for it" argument. This thinking continues to contribute to the general decline of intelligence in society.

Who are you to make such an assumption? I am not writing on this forum as if I were speaking informally and for the most part what I write is understandable. You are calling me an idiot when you don't even know who I am.
I didn't expect to be criticized based off of my grammar because I wrote an essay stating some the things I believed. Nelie actually didn't critique me- I just misunderstood and then accepted that later.
It would be pointless for me to begin an argument with you about how intelligent I am, and honestly I don't have to prove anything to you and you don't have to prove anything to me.

It would be much better though if you weren't so quick with your judgments.

champagne030
09-12-2008, 11:26 AM
I picked this club to finish below .500. I didn't think they'd be very good. In fact, I still don't think they are very good. But there they are, in first place on September 12. Somehow they are still in first place. And if they are still in first place 16 days from now, they'll be in the playoffs, even though they suck in several critical areas. I don't give a **** what their payroll is either. They are overachieving this season.

Off the top of my head, Alexei, Floyd, Danks, and Quentin have overachieved. A handful have put up typical seasons and way too many, including Ozzie, have severely underachieved.

guillensdisciple
09-12-2008, 11:35 AM
What do you want from Ozzie?

Someone please answer this question: What manager would fit the sox better?

Oh and don't say that there were plenty of times during the year where you would have done things differently.
That is just dumb because you have never played in the bigs nor managed a major league game in your life.

Twinkies fans are saying the same thing about Gardenhire right now. Apparently he is stupid for playing his BEST relief pitching in close game situations, but they lose. Granted Ozzie has been throwing out Wasserman and Logan in some tight situations but who would he throw instead? Dotel has simmered off since the beginning of the year and has become extremely inconsistent. You say what Thorton did last night. Ozzie found a formula but once Linebrink left that formula went to hell.


Let him manage the game the way he needs to.

kittle42
09-12-2008, 11:53 AM
Who are you to make such an assumption? I am not writing on this forum as if I were speaking informally and for the most part what I write is understandable. You are calling me an idiot when you don't even know who I am.
I didn't expect to be criticized based off of my grammar because I wrote an essay stating some the things I believed. Nelie actually didn't critique me- I just misunderstood and then accepted that later.
It would be pointless for me to begin an argument with you about how intelligent I am, and honestly I don't have to prove anything to you and you don't have to prove anything to me.

It would be much better though if you weren't so quick with your judgments.

I didn't judge you or call you an idiot. I took the thread on a tangent. You put yourself in the category. I have no evidence as to your intelligence.

kittle42
09-12-2008, 11:56 AM
Twinkies fans are saying the same thing about Gardenhire right now. Apparently he is stupid for playing his BEST relief pitching in close game situations, but they lose. Granted Ozzie has been throwing out Wasserman and Logan in some tight situations but who would he throw instead?

Well, there;s a difference: Gardenhire's moves in bringing in Nathan have arguably been the correct ones putting the Twins in the best position to win - the Twins have just not perfromed.

Bringing in Wasserman? That also puts the Twins in the best position to win.

Ozzie found a formula but once Linebrink left that formula went to hell.

This I agree with. It killed his bullpen management.

MisterB
09-12-2008, 12:35 PM
Haven't scanned the whole thread, but after Floyd pitched over the leadoff double in the seventh, I would have patted him on the back and sent Thornton out to start the eighth, rightly-lefty, who cares. He got that big strikeout with the bases loaded, then Overbay got to him, but Matt's got a chance if he comes into the inning clean.

You would have pulled a guy who had allowed only 4 baserunners over 7 innings while throwing only 77 pitches? :?:

Sorry, I call 100% hindsight on this one.

hi im skot
09-12-2008, 12:40 PM
You would have pulled a guy who had allowed only 4 baserunners over 7 innings while throwing only 77 pitches? :?:

Sorry, I call 100% hindsight on this one.

Word.

It's unfortunate that Floyd got himself into trouble that inning...he was pretty much cruising up until then.

KenBerryGrab
09-12-2008, 01:31 PM
You would have pulled a guy who had allowed only 4 baserunners over 7 innings while throwing only 77 pitches? :?:

Sorry, I call 100% hindsight on this one.

You weren't there, but, yeah, I said this in the stands after the 7th.

Tragg
09-12-2008, 01:54 PM
What do you want from Ozzie?

Someone please answer this question: What manager would fit the sox better?

From a talent evaluation standpoint, pretty much anyone can do better than Guillen. From other aspects, I have no idea. But I do know that Ozzie is consistently NOT putting the Sox in their best position to win: AAA pitchers at crunch time; DeWayne Wise and his .250 OBP in the lineup every day -and restructuring the lineup so he can bat 2nd. He's just clown-managing - or really, he's just overwhelmed and the pressure's getting to him.

JB98
09-12-2008, 01:55 PM
Off the top of my head, Alexei, Floyd, Danks, and Quentin have overachieved. A handful have put up typical seasons and way too many, including Ozzie, have severely underachieved.

I disagree. Only Konerko has severely underachieved.

Swisher has underachieved. So has Vazquez. Thome and Buerhle had poor starts to the season, but both have rebounded nicely. So I wouldn't call them underachievers.

Who else is underachieving? Certainly not Pierzynski or Dye. Quentin and Ramirez have been better than expected. Cabrera is about on par with his career numbers. Thome's power production is right where it should be. I'm delighted that he has been healthy all year (knock on wood).

I'd say six of our nine positions have been fine. We've been underachieving at 1B and CF all year. I throw 3B out the window, because I think most of us had low expectations of Crede. He got hurt, as expected. Uribe has actually done a better job than I thought he would filling in.

I really only see three underachievers on this team: Konerko, Swisher and Vazquez.

TDog
09-12-2008, 02:07 PM
My point was that Philadelphia fans have the reputation of being the most hostile, unforgiving fans in the country. Chicago fans aren't even close.

I can remember Jack Brickhouse saying the people of Philadelfphia booed the cracking of the Liberty Bell.

This thread had gone over the top. A team that had won eight straight games and swept the Rays came into Chicago and ran its streak to 10 before losing pulled out the last game of the series and people act like it is proof, for starters, that the Sox players and management has given up on the season.

Chill out. There have been worse moments this season. The current White Sox homestand, against the only team to have clinched a spot in the ALDS and the hottest team in baseball really isn't even as bad as the Twins homestand against two teams with losing records. The Twins led in every game in the homestand and lost half of them, just as, on their recent roadtirp, the Twins led in every game in the eighth inning or later (except in their 9-0 loss to Toronto), and finished 5-9. The Red Sox just lost two of three to the team that was swept by the Blue Jays.

The White Sox have lost an All-Star MVP frontrunner, a starting pitcher
and, at least for a few games, a starting firstbaseman. The offensive players missing are among the players who have ended games with RBIs at the Cell this year. In fact, as much as I have never liked Nick Swisher's offense (I believe I have made that clear since April, if not earlier), even he has a game-ending home run for the Sox this year.

This is a gutsy team that is far from dead. The Sox may not win it this year, but this is a great season to be a Sox fan, certainly greater than any season I followed when I was a kid.

Thursday night's loss was a disappointment, but, really, lighten up.

champagne030
09-12-2008, 02:16 PM
I disagree. Only Konerko has severely underachieved.

Swisher has underachieved. So has Vazquez. Thome and Buerhle had poor starts to the season, but both have rebounded nicely. So I wouldn't call them underachievers.

Who else is underachieving? Certainly not Pierzynski or Dye. Quentin and Ramirez have been better than expected. Cabrera is about on par with his career numbers. Thome's power production is right where it should be. I'm delighted that he has been healthy all year (knock on wood).

I'd say six of our nine positions have been fine. We've been underachieving at 1B and CF all year. I throw 3B out the window, because I think most of us had low expectations of Crede. He got hurt, as expected. Uribe has actually done a better job than I thought he would filling in.

I really only see three underachievers on this team: Konerko, Swisher and Vazquez.

Contreras, Jose.

3rd base - yes, most thought he wouldn't be healthy, but most thought we'd get good offensive production and brutal defense from Fields. Field's trade value is now squat.

Linebrink/bullpen - Linebrink was great for his 40 innings, but when he got hurt the people who replaced those 30 innings have completely ****ing sucked. I know it's not Linebrink's fault he got hurt, but 40 innings is underachieving. Most people thought the bullpen was going to be very, very strong. Right now it's Jenks or cross your fingers.

And maybe most importantly, don't forget Ozzie. He has always been a poor game strategist, but he's been completely off his rocker with moves this season.

Lip Man 1
09-12-2008, 02:17 PM
T-Dog:

Just wondering, what years were you a kid?

Lip

hawkjt
09-12-2008, 02:43 PM
From a talent evaluation standpoint, pretty much anyone can do better than Guillen. From other aspects, I have no idea. But I do know that Ozzie is consistently NOT putting the Sox in their best position to win: AAA pitchers at crunch time; DeWayne Wise and his .250 OBP in the lineup every day -and restructuring the lineup so he can bat 2nd. He's just clown-managing - or really, he's just overwhelmed and the pressure's getting to him.


In todays Tribune writeup on the Detroit series in the ''who's hot'' box they cited Wise hitting over .300 in his last 35 games.

Now, I am sure we have other guys who have hit better than .300 over the last 35 games but I bet not many.

kittle42
09-12-2008, 02:46 PM
In todays Tribune writeup on the Detroit series in the ''who's hot'' box they cited Wise hitting over .300 in his last 35 games.

Now, I am sure we have other guys who have hit better than .300 over the last 35 games but I bet not many.

That's a pretty low AB total, undoubtedly, for 35 games, though. Still, I have no problem with him playing right now. Between Owens/Wise/Anderson, it's pick your AAA poison.

hawkjt
09-12-2008, 02:49 PM
That's a pretty low AB total, undoubtedly, for 35 games, though. Still, I have no problem with him playing right now. Between Owens/Wise/Anderson, it's pick your AAA poison.

No doubt you are right but I suspect the trib writers were struggling to find any healthy sox hitters who would qualify for the designation of ''hot''.

forrestg
09-12-2008, 03:03 PM
Streaking players, Swisher has won some games for us but he is slumping badly.. Konerko was hitting now if he returns will be even slower. Can we put someone else at first>> Dye,Thome, Alexie( Alexei can do anything) Griffey.. Cal Eldred? We are going to have to improvise the rest of the way out.

champagne030
09-12-2008, 03:05 PM
In todays Tribune writeup on the Detroit series in the ''who's hot'' box they cited Wise hitting over .300 in his last 35 games.

Now, I am sure we have other guys who have hit better than .300 over the last 35 games but I bet not many.

That's basically his whole season. They just skipped his first 6 games, in which case, he's not hitting .300. He's hit like ****, sans an 8 day period from 6/17-6/24. And to add insult to injury, he can't play the field.

They should have said he's batting .205, since July 8 and put him in the who's not column......

kittle42
09-12-2008, 03:16 PM
No doubt you are right but I suspect the trib writers were struggling to find any healthy sox hitters who would qualify for the designation of ''hot''.

Some of the ladies think Swisher is hot.

TDog
09-12-2008, 03:53 PM
T-Dog:

Just wondering, what years were you a kid?

Lip

I don't go back as far as you do. I went to a Cubs-Sox game in the mi-1960s and remember the end of the 1967 season (which had to be worse than this considering the lack of offense) from Dallas. I didn't start watching and listening to Sox games on my own until 1969, back in the Chicago area, but didn't really come of age as a fan until the brutal 1970 season. The best seasons were 1972 and 1977, but both teams were only on the fringes of the race by September. By 1983, I was living in a desert about 2,000 miles from Chicago.

I imagine it was frustrating for kids a few years earlier looking up at the Yankees every year. I grew up with the frustration of being in a penant race -- and not always in the center -- every five years.

And yet, I have never considered not being a White Sox fan. That's a big part of what it means to be a White Sox fan.

JB98
09-12-2008, 05:29 PM
Contreras, Jose.

3rd base - yes, most thought he wouldn't be healthy, but most thought we'd get good offensive production and brutal defense from Fields. Field's trade value is now squat.

Linebrink/bullpen - Linebrink was great for his 40 innings, but when he got hurt the people who replaced those 30 innings have completely ****ing sucked. I know it's not Linebrink's fault he got hurt, but 40 innings is underachieving. Most people thought the bullpen was going to be very, very strong. Right now it's Jenks or cross your fingers.

And maybe most importantly, don't forget Ozzie. He has always been a poor game strategist, but he's been completely off his rocker with moves this season.

The players you're talking about had injuries. I hate to tell you, but being hurt and underachieving are two very different things. Every team has injuries.

Contreras was 7-6 at the time of his injury. Just what the hell were you expecting? 20 wins?

Linebrink was performing above his career norms before he got hurt. To say he is an underachieving players is absurd, IMO.

champagne030
09-12-2008, 05:36 PM
The players you're talking about had injuries. I hate to tell you, but being hurt and underachieving are two very different things. Every team has injuries.

Contreras was 7-6 at the time of his injury. Just what the hell were you expecting? 20 wins?

Linebrink was performing above his career norms before he got hurt. To say he is an underachieving players is absurd, IMO.

I don't think you fully understand the definition of underachieve?

40 innings from Linebrink is underachieving.
121 innings from Contreras is underachieving.

Getting hurt is just the reason those players underachieved....

JB98
09-12-2008, 05:39 PM
I don't think you fully understand the definition of underachieve?

40 innings from Linebrink is underachieving.
121 innings from Contreras is underachieving.

Getting hurt is just the reason those players underachieved....

You don't get it. I'm done arguing with you.

white sox bill
09-12-2008, 06:54 PM
Underplay...is that the word you mean? Underacheive to me is when you are given full chance to prove yourself and you fall short of either potential or expectations. The question here may be did Jose or Linebrink play a full enough season to get a fair shake at meeting above criteria

JB98
09-12-2008, 07:34 PM
Underplay...is that the word you mean? Underacheive to me is when you are given full chance to prove yourself and you fall short of either potential or expectations. The question here may be did Jose or Linebrink play a full enough season to get a fair shake at meeting above criteria

He's arguing that Ozzie is doing a subpar job with a roster full of players that are "severely underachieving."

Somehow, the club is 81-65. Try making sense out of that argument. I can't.

white sox bill
09-12-2008, 07:40 PM
He's arguing that Ozzie is doing a subpar job with a roster full of players that are "severely underachieving."

Somehow, the club is 81-65. Try making sense out of that argument. I can't.

If record were reversed, then I'd say underacheive, as a team. How about overacheive meaning Alexie,Q,Floyd etc? Enough overacheivers will overshadow the unders. True?

JB98
09-12-2008, 07:50 PM
If record were reversed, then I'd say underacheive, as a team. How about overacheive meaning Alexie,Q,Floyd etc? Enough overacheivers will overshadow the unders. True?

I think the team has overachieved this year, in part, because of surprisingly good performances by Ramirez, Quentin and Floyd.

white sox bill
09-12-2008, 07:56 PM
I think the team has overachieved this year, in part, because of surprisingly good performances by Ramirez, Quentin and Floyd.
Absolutely, take those three out of the equation, you have a sub-500 team

white sox bill
09-12-2008, 08:00 PM
I don't think you fully understand the definition of underachieve?

40 innings from Linebrink is underachieving.
121 innings from Contreras is underachieving.

Getting hurt is just the reason those players underachieved....

So what came first, the chicken or the egg? I can see what your saying here...injured is injured, but thier playing preceeded thier injury, so lets look at thier stats etc before injury

champagne030
09-12-2008, 08:02 PM
Underplay...is that the word you mean? Underacheive to me is when you are given full chance to prove yourself and you fall short of either potential or expectations. The question here may be did Jose or Linebrink play a full enough season to get a fair shake at meeting above criteria

No, I mean underachieve.

"To perform worse or achieve less success than expected."

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/underachieving

40 innings for Linebrink is less success than expected.

120 innings for Contreras is less success than expected.

The reason they underachieved is because they were hurt.

champagne030
09-12-2008, 08:06 PM
So what came first, the chicken or the egg? I can see what your saying here...injured is injured, but thier playing preceeded thier injury, so lets look at thier stats etc before injury

And I understand what you're saying. Until the point they were injured, Contreras produced what I expected. Linebrink overachieved. At the end of the year, when you look at their complete numbers, they underachieved.

I'm not trying to say they sucked. I think you understand that point. It's just that at the end of the day, they achieved less success than expected. There's a legit reason for it, but it's still less success than expected.

Tragg
09-12-2008, 08:29 PM
In todays Tribune writeup on the Detroit series in the ''who's hot'' box they cited Wise hitting over .300 in his last 35 games.

Now, I am sure we have other guys who have hit better than .300 over the last 35 games but I bet not many.
But 35 games goes back to June for Wise - he was hurt for a month. And again if you take out 1 week in June, his OBP this year is .240. (and i'm sure it's similar in his last 35 games, except for 1 week in June). His batting average is similar as he has a guillen-like 3 walks in 80 or so at bats this year. Under what rational basis of baseball analysis do you allow a .240 hitter to start, much less put the .240 OBP in the 2 hole and adjust the lineup to do so?

When I first read your post, I thought you said he was hitting over .300 in his last 35 at bats. He's hitting .228 in that period, if anyone's interested. He's Ozzie's 2 hole hitter.

This is like ERstad last year - Erstad is a good backup player, but he plays Ozzie-style, so Ozzie puts him in the lineup every day (and always in a prime spot) and he's a disaster. Wise should be on the bench.

Anderson is 3 times the player Wise is.

jabrch
09-12-2008, 08:31 PM
Absolutely, take those three out of the equation, you have a sub-500 team

Take any 3 of the 5 best players away from any team and they end up about a .500 team.

jabrch
09-12-2008, 08:32 PM
It's amazing people still feed the trolls...

champagne030
09-13-2008, 04:08 AM
But 35 games goes back to June for Wise - he was hurt for a month. And again if you take out 1 week in June, his OBP this year is .240. (and i'm sure it's similar in his last 35 games, except for 1 week in June). His batting average is similar as he has a guillen-like 3 walks in 80 or so at bats this year. Under what rational basis of baseball analysis do you allow a .240 hitter to start, much less put the .240 OBP in the 2 hole and adjust the lineup to do so?

When I first read your post, I thought you said he was hitting over .300 in his last 35 at bats. He's hitting .228 in that period, if anyone's interested. He's Ozzie's 2 hole hitter.

This is like ERstad last year - Erstad is a good backup player, but he plays Ozzie-style, so Ozzie puts him in the lineup every day (and always in a prime spot) and he's a disaster. Wise should be on the bench.

Anderson is 3 times the player Wise is.

Some people refuse to see the truth.

kevingrt
09-13-2008, 09:36 AM
Thanks for changing the thread title mods. Just because we all needed a little humor after a terrible series I get ripped apart.

I have nothing against Michelle's country or their national anthem. In fact it's a great country with many terrific cities such as Ottawa and Vancouver. I was just trying to have a little humor which must have not gone over well with one mod.

But you mods obviously are not happy with me right now. And why did it take two days to change the title of the thread?

And I believe calling members on this board vulgar language is frowned upon according to the WSI Official Code of Conduct: http://www.flyingsock.com/MainPages/ConductCode.htm. That would be bullet point number thirteen.

So if next time you do not like the title of my thread, if you could change it to something more civil and fair I would greatly appreciate it. And you could send me a PM explaining why you changed it.

If it was a joke. I guess it is pretty funny.

Thanks.

Brian26
09-13-2008, 01:31 PM
He's arguing that Ozzie is doing a subpar job with a roster full of players that are "severely underachieving."


I feel Swisher is underachieving. His current .223 average is well below his career ba of .245. :D:

JB98
09-13-2008, 01:37 PM
I feel Swisher is underachieving. His current .223 average is well below his career ba of .245. :D:

He is underachieving. I listed Konerko, Swisher and Vazquez as the underachievers.

Still, I think the club has more overachievers than underachievers this season. Of course, in the case of Quentin, Ramirez and Floyd, maybe they aren't overachieving. Maybe these are breakout years, indicative that these players are entering their primes. Hopefully, that is the case. Time will tell.

DSpivack
09-13-2008, 01:47 PM
He is underachieving. I listed Konerko, Swisher and Vazquez as the underachievers.

Still, I think the club has more overachievers than underachievers this season. Of course, in the case of Quentin, Ramirez and Floyd, maybe they aren't overachieving. Maybe these are breakout years, indicative that these players are entering their primes. Hopefully, that is the case. Time will tell.

Does Vazquez have the talent to do better? Sure. But his numbers this year are nearly identical to his career numbers. It's about what I expect from him.

JB98
09-13-2008, 01:50 PM
Does Vazquez have the talent to do better? Sure. But his numbers this year are nearly identical to his career numbers. It's about what I expect from him.

Valid point. Vazquez is a frustrating pitcher to watch. He should be better, but the truth is he's been a .500 pitcher for a long, long time.

Michelle
09-13-2008, 05:35 PM
So if next time you do not like the title of my thread, if you could change it to something more civil and fair I would greatly appreciate it. And you could send me a PM explaining why you changed it.
How about next time you just don't be an idiot?

kevingrt
09-13-2008, 06:17 PM
How about next time you just don't be an idiot?

I'm still trying to figure out how I am an idiot and why there is a double standard here recently. But whatever. I'll drop it.

Regardless, the last game the White Sox played was incredibly frustrating. And the fact it was player Thursday is even more frustrating. This has been a long couple days.

EuroSox35
09-13-2008, 08:57 PM
American sterotype jokes on a 9/11 gamethread http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/555/notd7.gif

Whitesoxfan23
09-13-2008, 09:05 PM
Looks at title of topic... What is the deal with the America hate?

Michelle
09-14-2008, 12:31 AM
Looks at title of topic... What is the deal with the America hate?
Nobody's hating on America. It's Americans hating on Canada that is the issue. I guess you missed the original thread title :rolleyes:

itsnotrequired
09-14-2008, 12:48 AM
amerika rulz, doods

MISoxfan
09-14-2008, 01:38 AM
I see, so you change it to another offensive title and then roll your eyes at the people who missed the original. :rolleyes:

Whitesoxfan23
09-14-2008, 02:10 AM
America does rule.

BleacherBandit
09-14-2008, 09:31 AM
America does rule.

I did not know that when the Blue Jays come to an American city, they have to sing the Canadian National Anthem....

SoxandtheCityTee
09-14-2008, 09:38 AM
amerika rulz, doods

To be fair, I saw the original thread title and, though I don't know kevingrt, I doubt that was the spirit in which the thread title was meant.

Visiting teams don't have any way of getting "their" music played in our ballpark. Even when the Red Sox show up at the Cell, they don't get "Sweet Caroline" played on the PA system every game (thank the heavens). If they did, and they came in here and took three of four games from the Sox at crunch time in a division race, you might see a post-game thread title wryly noting "At Least We Don't Have to Hear Sweet Caroline Again." In context, it would not be a negative comment generally on Neil Diamond songs, Arsenal football, or Caroline Kennedy's politics; just a "glad to see the back of those guys."

That said, "O Canada" is a national anthem, not a song associated with the Blue Jays as such. The OP made a mistake conflating the two, but that, standing alone, is not evidence he's jingoistic or hates Canada.

BleacherBandit
09-14-2008, 09:44 AM
To be fair, I saw the original thread title and, though I don't know kevingrt, I doubt that was the spirit in which the thread title was meant.

Visiting teams don't have any way of getting "their" music played in our ballpark. Even when the Red Sox show up at the Cell, they don't get "Sweet Caroline" played on the PA system every game (thank the heavens). If they did, and they came in here and took three of four games from the Sox at crunch time in a division race, you might see a post-game thread title wryly noting "At Least We Don't Have to Hear Sweet Caroline Again." In context, it would not be a negative comment generally on Neil Diamond songs, Arsenal football, or Caroline Kennedy's politics; just a "glad to see the back of those guys."

That said, "O Canada" is a national anthem, not a song associated with the Blue Jays as such. The OP made a mistake conflating the two, but that, standing alone, is not evidence he's jingoistic or hates Canada.

Plus the fact that 'foreigners' tend to think that anything an American says that can remotely construed towards being arrogant is arrogant....

Michelle
09-14-2008, 10:41 AM
I see, so you change it to another offensive title and then roll your eyes at the people who missed the original. :rolleyes:
For the record, it wasn't actually me who changed the title.