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getonbckthr
09-11-2008, 02:10 PM
Who does everyone think should be the NL MVP?

hi im skot
09-11-2008, 02:26 PM
Of those choices, Sabathia...and I know that's not a popular pick.

getonbckthr
09-11-2008, 02:34 PM
I voted for Manny. Since he has gotten to LA that team has taken off. By the way he has 14 hrs and 40 RBI's since.

hellview
09-11-2008, 02:35 PM
Anyone not voting for Pujols should never be allowed to watch baseball again.

hellview
09-11-2008, 02:35 PM
I voted for Manny. Since he has gotten to LA that team has taken off. By the way he has 14 hrs and 40 RBI's since.

LA has really taken off, there 21-17 since Manny got to LA.

CHISOXFAN13
09-11-2008, 02:39 PM
I voted for Manny. Since he has gotten to LA that team has taken off. By the way he has 14 hrs and 40 RBI's since.

More like Arizona has been awful.

getonbckthr
09-11-2008, 02:40 PM
Anyone not voting for Pujols should never be allowed to watch baseball again.
And where is ST. Louis in the standings?
LA has really taken off, there 21-17 since Manny got to LA.
And where is the Dodgers in the standings as opposed to on July 31st?

Madscout
09-11-2008, 02:40 PM
LA has really taken off, there 21-17 since Manny got to LA.
A whole 4 games over .500 is not what I call "taking off". But then again, it is the NL West.

getonbckthr
09-11-2008, 02:42 PM
More like Arizona has been awful.
Since Manny joined the Dodgers Arizona is 2-7 against LA.

kruzer31
09-11-2008, 03:08 PM
Seriously you guys are kidding right. You probably havent looked at Delgados numbers, and I mean really, take a look at them. Most of that damage has come in the second half to carry the Mets to the top of the division. If the Mets win the division. You heard it here first. Delgado is hands down the NL MVP. Its almost not even close

kruzer31
09-11-2008, 03:09 PM
Anyone not voting for Pujols should never be allowed to watch baseball again.


You must not have been watching Delgado this year

asindc
09-11-2008, 03:30 PM
Seriously you guys are kidding right. You probably havent looked at Delgados numbers, and I mean really, take a look at them. Most of that damage has come in the second half to carry the Mets to the top of the division. If the Mets win the division. You heard it here first. Delgado is hands down the NL MVP. Its almost not even close

I agree. Delgado has been a monster the second half. If not for him, the Phillies would be virtually making playoffs plans right now.

daveeym
09-11-2008, 03:30 PM
You must not have been watching Delgado this year
Delgado's second half isn't even as good as Pujol's second half. There are a ton of articles out there on Delgado and how he's not deserving. He's the third best player on his team.

Pujols: .362/.467/.655 vs .264/.349/.515

With RISP
Delgado: .276/.391/.533
Pujols: .323/.529/.646

With RISP 2 outs
Delgado: .269/.443/.627
Pujols: .306/.597/.750

Late & Close (7th inning or later, batting team tied, ahead by one, or tying run on deck)
Delgado: .218/.326/.385 (over 96 PA's)
Pujols: .349/.469/.667 (over 81 PA's)

Since the All Star Break:
Delgado: .295/.387/.628 18 HR 52 RBI
Pujols: .380/.468/.728 15 HR 49 RBI

OPS Here are your 2008 leaders:

1 Albert Pujols 1.122
2 Lance Berkman 1.034
3 Chipper Jones 1.033
4 Matt Holliday .963
5 Ryan Ludwick .957
6 Carlos Lee .937
7 Hanley Ramirez 920
8 Ryan Braun .916
9 Chase Utley .913
10 David Wright .909

20 Carlos Delgado .864


Now I usually want my MVP to be involved in a playoff chase and Delgado figures in there. But Pujol's season is just too good and Delgado's is above average at best.

daveeym
09-11-2008, 03:32 PM
I agree. Delgado has been a monster the second half. If not for him, the Phillies would be virtually making playoffs plans right now.
If not for Delgado's 1st half the Mets would be 8 up right now. They were thinking of releasing him for crying out loud.

kruzer31
09-11-2008, 03:34 PM
Delgado's second half isn't even as good as Pujol's second half. There are a ton of articles out there on Delgado and how he's not deserving. He's the third best player on his team.

Pujols: .362/.467/.655 vs .264/.349/.515

With RISP
Delgado: .276/.391/.533
Pujols: .323/.529/.646

With RISP 2 outs
Delgado: .269/.443/.627
Pujols: .306/.597/.750

Late & Close (7th inning or later, batting team tied, ahead by one, or tying run on deck)
Delgado: .218/.326/.385 (over 96 PA's)
Pujols: .349/.469/.667 (over 81 PA's)

Since the All Star Break:
Delgado: .295/.387/.628 18 HR 52 RBI
Pujols: .380/.468/.728 15 HR 49 RBI

OPS Here are your 2008 leaders:

1 Albert Pujols 1.122
2 Lance Berkman 1.034
3 Chipper Jones 1.033
4 Matt Holliday .963
5 Ryan Ludwick .957
6 Carlos Lee .937
7 Hanley Ramirez 920
8 Ryan Braun .916
9 Chase Utley .913
10 David Wright .909

20 Carlos Delgado .864


Now I usually want my MVP to be involved in a playoff chase and Delgado figures in there. But Pujol's season is just too good and Delgado's is above average at best.


Dont forget, its not all individual stats, while the Mets appear to be playoff bound, Pujols and the Cards will be sitting home

daveeym
09-11-2008, 03:48 PM
Dont forget, its not all individual stats, while the Mets appear to be playoff bound, Pujols and the Cards will be sitting home
I usually put a lot of weight on the playoff races but Delgado's numbers aren't that great especially with Wright and Beltran arguably putting up better numbers. He's having a hot week or two, big whup.

Last 30 Days (http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?c_id=mlb&section1=null&statSet1=null&sortByStat=AB&statType=1&timeFrame=2&timeSubFrame=15&baseballScope=NL&prevPage1=1&readBoxes=true&sitSplit=&venueID=&subScope=teamCode&teamPosCode=NYN&box2=XXXX431151nyn5&box3=XXXX113232nyn3&box4=XXXX136860nynO&compare.x=27&compare.y=7)

Last 7 Days (http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?c_id=mlb&section1=null&statSet1=null&sortByStat=AB&statType=1&timeFrame=2&timeSubFrame=14&baseballScope=NL&prevPage1=1&readBoxes=true&sitSplit=&venueID=&subScope=teamCode&teamPosCode=NYN&box1=XXXX136860nynO&box3=XXXX113232nyn3&box4=XXXX431151nyn5&compare.x=20&compare.y=6)

RockyMtnSoxFan
09-11-2008, 04:11 PM
You can argue for Manny or Delgado all you want, but if you are using stats then Pujols is the winner. He has similar power numbers to those other guys, but better on base, average, etc.

And though the Cardinals probably won't make the playoffs, it's not Pujols's fault. He kept them in the race a lot longer than they should have been. You could argue that he has help from Ludwick, but I think that Ludwick is good because of Pujols, not the other way around. When Pujols missed time in June, Ludwick's OPS dropped over 100 points in two weeks. Meanwhile, Delgado has Wright, Beltran, and Reyes to support him, plus Church earlier in the season when he was healthy. Manny has put up some good numbers, but he's only been there for a little more than a month, and he isn't the reason they are now in first. In winning 10 of 11, LA has allowed four runs twice; every other game the pitching staff has allowed three or less. And let me tell you, that's not because of the defense they get in left field.

If anyone other than Pujols wins this award, it is because the voters place a high priority on making the post season, and perhaps because everybody expects big numbers from him.

russ99
09-11-2008, 04:16 PM
OPS Here are your 2008 leaders:

1 Albert Pujols 1.122
2 Lance Berkman 1.034



No love for Lance Berkman? He had a monster first half, has come around from a August slump and is helping carry the team with the best record since the ASB to the playoffs...

How can anyone vote "NL for a month" Manny over Berkman?

daveeym
09-11-2008, 04:25 PM
No love for Lance Berkman? He had a monster first half, has come around from a August slump and is helping carry the team with the best record since the ASB to the playoffs...

How can anyone vote "NL for a month" Manny over Berkman?
If they get there I'd consider him for some love. I don't think they're going to get there though.

BleacherBandit
09-11-2008, 04:59 PM
Hmm...The only players in the NL that I care about are Carlos Lee and Nick Masset for obvious reasons....And even then, I could care less.

Chase Utley got off to a great start, and he was leading the NL in home runs for a while, then he had a terrible June, and there hasn't been nearly as much spotlight on him since.

I would probably go for Sabathia because he hasn't lost a game since the half, and is going to get his team into the playoffs.

turners56
09-11-2008, 05:00 PM
Delgado's been completely overrated. He's hitting .260 for christ's sakes. His OPS is not even .900. Pujols kills him in almost every major offensive category. Pujols, hands down.

turners56
09-11-2008, 05:01 PM
Hmm...The only players in the NL that I care about are Carlos Lee and Nick Masset for obvious reasons....And even then, I could care less.

Chase Utley got off to a great start, and he was leading the NL in home runs for a while, then he had a terrible June, and there hasn't been nearly as much spotlight on him since.

I would probably go for Sabathia because he hasn't lost a game since the half, and is going to get his team into the playoffs.

No love for A-Row? I find it funny that you mention C-Lee and Masset but don't even mention the grindiest of all grinders.

Rowand had a good first half, but that big ball park in San Fran has killed his power numbers. He has a .736 OPS this year with only 13 home runs all while hitting .275. Reminds me of his 2005 season. I bet he wishes he can take that supposed deal Kenny gave him now.

turners56
09-11-2008, 05:03 PM
No love for Lance Berkman? He had a monster first half, has come around from a August slump and is helping carry the team with the best record since the ASB to the playoffs...

How can anyone vote "NL for a month" Manny over Berkman?

The Astros are 4.5 games back. Granted, that's not a huge lead, but I doubt they'll win the Wild Card.

turners56
09-11-2008, 05:03 PM
You can argue for Manny or Delgado all you want, but if you are using stats then Pujols is the winner. He has similar power numbers to those other guys, but better on base, average, etc.

And though the Cardinals probably won't make the playoffs, it's not Pujols's fault. He kept them in the race a lot longer than they should have been. You could argue that he has help from Ludwick, but I think that Ludwick is good because of Pujols, not the other way around. When Pujols missed time in June, Ludwick's OPS dropped over 100 points in two weeks. Meanwhile, Delgado has Wright, Beltran, and Reyes to support him, plus Church earlier in the season when he was healthy. Manny has put up some good numbers, but he's only been there for a little more than a month, and he isn't the reason they are now in first. In winning 10 of 11, LA has allowed four runs twice; every other game the pitching staff has allowed three or less. And let me tell you, that's not because of the defense they get in left field.

If anyone other than Pujols wins this award, it is because the voters place a high priority on making the post season, and perhaps because everybody expects big numbers from him.

If the Cardinals had a decent closer, they would be in first place right now.

PatK
09-11-2008, 05:20 PM
I picked Berkman.

hellview
09-11-2008, 05:52 PM
Is there some irrational hatred for Pujols that I don't know about that goes on around here?

Is isn't even a contest, Pujols numbers are better then anyone. This garbage that a team has to make the postseason to prove his value is assinine. Pujols is the best player in the the entire league this season let along the NL. It's not his fault he's surrounded by a bunch of no talent bums.

Pujols is the MVP of the NL.

turners56
09-11-2008, 05:56 PM
Is there some irrational hatred for Pujols that I don't know about that goes on around here?

Is isn't even a contest, Pujols numbers are better then anyone. This garbage that a team has to make the postseason to prove his value is assinine. Pujols is the best player in the the entire league this season let along the NL. It's not his fault he's surrounded by a bunch of no talent bums.

Pujols is the MVP of the NL.

Ludwick, Glaus, Ankiel, and Schumaker are no talent bums? I wouldn't say so...

If the Cardinals had a more reliable closer, they would be in a much better position than they are now. Even without a good closer, they're 4 games out of the Wild Card. So in reality, none of this is Pujols' or the offense's fault. The Cardinals bullpen just sucks at holding leads.

hellview
09-11-2008, 05:58 PM
Dont forget, its not all individual stats, while the Mets appear to be playoff bound, Pujols and the Cards will be sitting home

Well then call it the Most Valauble Team not the Most Valuable Player.

This crap that a MVP has to come from a playoff team needs to stop.

hellview
09-11-2008, 06:00 PM
Ludwick, Glaus, Ankiel, and Schumaker are not talent bums? I wouldn't say so...

If the Cardinals had a more reliable closer, they would be in a much better position than they are now. Even without a good closer, they're 4 games out of the Wild Card. So in reality, none of this is Pujols' or the offense's fault. The Cardinals bullpen just sucks at holding leads.

WOW?!?!?!

I can't believe you said Skip Schumaker and his .782 OPS.

Hahahahahahahaha

turners56
09-11-2008, 06:05 PM
WOW?!?!?!

I can't believe you said Skip Schumaker and his .782 OPS.

Hahahahahahahaha

A .782 OPS is actually above average (and pretty damn good for a leadoff hitter). His OPS+ is 6 points above the league average. I know it's somewhat of a stretch, but barely above average players are not "no talent bums".

tstrike2000
09-11-2008, 06:11 PM
Dustin Pedroia.

turners56
09-11-2008, 06:14 PM
Dustin Pedroia.

It's official, the Red Sox are in both the AL and NL East.

FedEx227
09-11-2008, 06:25 PM
Well then call it the Most Valauble Team not the Most Valuable Player.

This crap that a MVP has to come from a playoff team needs to stop.

Exactly. What a joke. Pujols is having one of the best all-around (power, average) offensive years we've seen in a long time.

Pujols: .362/.467/.655, 33 HR, 100 RBI, 193 OPS+
Delgado: .264/.349/.515, 35 HR, 104 RBI, 127 OPS+

Delgado isn't even the top MVP candidate on his team.

David Wright: .296/.384/.524, 28 HR, 109 RBI, 139 OPS+

tstrike2000
09-11-2008, 06:39 PM
It's official, the Red Sox are in both the AL and NL East.

If it were up to east coast sportswriters, they probably would try to make that happen.

getonbckthr
09-11-2008, 09:05 PM
You can argue for Manny or Delgado all you want, but if you are using stats then Pujols is the winner. He has similar power numbers to those other guys, but better on base, average, etc.

If anyone other than Pujols wins this award, it is because the voters place a high priority on making the post season, and perhaps because everybody expects big numbers from him.

Is there some irrational hatred for Pujols that I don't know about that goes on around here?

Is isn't even a contest, Pujols numbers are better then anyone. This garbage that a team has to make the postseason to prove his value is assinine. Pujols is the best player in the the entire league this season let along the NL. It's not his fault he's surrounded by a bunch of no talent bums.

Pujols is the MVP of the NL.

Well then call it the Most Valauble Team not the Most Valuable Player.

This crap that a MVP has to come from a playoff team needs to stop.
The MVP award stands for most valueable player not best player. In my opinion Manny Ramirez has been more valueable to the Dodgers than Pujols to the Cardinals. The evidence is that before he got there they were in 2nd place and under .500. Since they are over .500 and in 1st place. Factor in the 40 games he's been there he has 14 hrs, 40 RBI's and hitting damn near .400.

hellview
09-11-2008, 09:55 PM
The MVP award stands for most valueable player not best player. In my opinion Manny Ramirez has been more valueable to the Dodgers than Pujols to the Cardinals. The evidence is that before he got there they were in 2nd place and under .500. Since they are over .500 and in 1st place. Factor in the 40 games he's been there he has 14 hrs, 40 RBI's and hitting damn near .400.

So the fact that the Dodgers have gone 21-17 and are now in first have more to do with the Manny playing well or the fact that the D-backs are in a tailspin right now.

Do you really believe that Manny is the MVP cause the D-backs has stunk and now that the Dodgers are in first (while playing barely over .500 ball since Manny go there)

Pathetic....

getonbckthr
09-11-2008, 09:59 PM
So the fact that the Dodgers have gone 21-17 and are now in first have more to do with the Manny playing well or the fact that the D-backs are in a tailspin right now.

Do you really believe that Manny is the MVP cause the D-backs has stunk and now that the Dodgers are in first (while playing barely over .500 ball since Manny go there)

Pathetic....
I get the feeling your either a Manny-hater or a huge Pujols fan. Manny has carried LA to 1st place. Like I mentioned earlier since Manny has arrived in LA they are 7-2 against the Dbacks. Thats why they are in 1st place. They took it from Arizona on the field. The reason Manny Ramirez.

Craig Grebeck
09-11-2008, 10:12 PM
I get the feeling your either a Manny-hater or a huge Pujols fan. Manny has carried LA to 1st place. Like I mentioned earlier since Manny has arrived in LA they are 7-2 against the Dbacks. Thats why they are in 1st place. They took it from Arizona on the field. The reason Manny Ramirez.
Do you know how bad STL would be without Pujols? I don't think you understand baseball if you think he's anything short of a runaway MVP.

hellview
09-11-2008, 10:32 PM
I get the feeling your either a Manny-hater or a huge Pujols fan. Manny has carried LA to 1st place. Like I mentioned earlier since Manny has arrived in LA they are 7-2 against the Dbacks. Thats why they are in 1st place. They took it from Arizona on the field. The reason Manny Ramirez.

This doesn't have anything to do with who I like, it's what's right and Manny shouldn't even be in the top 10 for NL MVP voting.

Funny how the Dodgers having the best ERA in the NL has nothing to do with them passing AZ.

Funny how Ethier who's put up numbers comparable to Manny isn't mentioned. At least he's been in the NL for more then 2 monthes.

You can't honestly believe that Manny is the best player in the NL cause of AZ sucking and the Dodgers playing .540 (which stinks) baseball. You really know nothing about baseball if you think Manny is the MVP.

chisoxmike
09-12-2008, 12:48 AM
Hmm...The only players in the NL that I care about are Carlos Lee and Nick Masset for obvious reasons....And even then, I could care less.



:?:

chisoxfanatic
09-12-2008, 12:55 AM
Anyone not voting for Pujols should never be allowed to watch baseball again.
That's my boy! Pujols is one of the best hitters in the history of the game and will have some of the most astounding numbers once his career is complete. If I were to build my team around anyone in baseball, Pujols would be my anchor.

guillensdisciple
09-12-2008, 01:36 AM
I chose Delgado purely off of his numbers, however I understand that Pujols basically carried the cards on his shoulders so I wish to take back my vote... I guess that is impossible.

Eddo144
09-12-2008, 12:57 PM
I chose Delgado purely off of his numbers, however I understand that Pujols basically carried the cards on his shoulders so I wish to take back my vote... I guess that is impossible.
How could you look at Delgado's numbers and conclude he's been better than Pujols, Berkman, Braun, or Wright?

hi im skot
09-12-2008, 01:03 PM
Hmm...The only players in the NL that I care about are Carlos Lee and Nick Masset for obvious reasons....And even then, I could care less.

Wow...who knew Carlos and Masset had the same mother?

turners56
09-12-2008, 03:55 PM
The MVP award stands for most valueable player not best player. In my opinion Manny Ramirez has been more valueable to the Dodgers than Pujols to the Cardinals. The evidence is that before he got there they were in 2nd place and under .500. Since they are over .500 and in 1st place. Factor in the 40 games he's been there he has 14 hrs, 40 RBI's and hitting damn near .400.

The Dodgers are 4 games over .500 since Manny's arrival...it's not that big of a difference. If you think Manny should win MVP with just 40 games played, you're crazy.

getonbckthr
09-12-2008, 10:02 PM
Do you know how bad STL would be without Pujols? I don't think you understand baseball if you think he's anything short of a runaway MVP.
St. Louis is in 4th place. How valueable is he?
This doesn't have anything to do with who I like, it's what's right and Manny shouldn't even be in the top 10 for NL MVP voting.

Funny how the Dodgers having the best ERA in the NL has nothing to do with them passing AZ.

Funny how Ethier who's put up numbers comparable to Manny isn't mentioned. At least he's been in the NL for more then 2 monthes.

You can't honestly believe that Manny is the best player in the NL cause of AZ sucking and the Dodgers playing .540 (which stinks) baseball. You really know nothing about baseball if you think Manny is the MVP.
MVP, MVP MVP MVP. It stands for Most valueable player. How the hell can someone bethe most valueable player on a 4th place team?

turners56
09-13-2008, 02:09 PM
St. Louis is in 4th place. How valueable is he?

MVP, MVP MVP MVP. It stands for Most valueable player. How the hell can someone bethe most valueable player on a 4th place team?

It depends on what you mean by value. Let's hypothetically say that Pujols was suddenly traded to the Mets for Carlos Delgado. Let's say this happened a month ago, when the Mets didn't have such a huge lead on Philadelphia and Delgado wasn't even in the MVP picture. So does that automatically mean that Pujols should win MVP because he's on a first place team? Let's say that Pujols is on the Dodgers, but they're only 5 games over .500. Does that mean he's automatically an MVP? Looking at the standings alone for MVP is downright stupid. If so, Aramis Ramirez will win the NL MVP (he's the best player on the best team in the NL right?). Let's not forget, the Cardinals are still in slight contention for the wild card...

There's a difference between being in contention (like the Cardinals) and being in last place with nothing to play for. You're acting like Pujols was doing all of his damage for absolutely zero cause, which is completely false. Put Pujols on any first place team and watch him do almost the same exact damage he is doing now. You can't assume everything carries over, but Pujols has a 200 point advantage on Delgado in terms of OPS and almost a 40 point lead in OPS+, that's a insurmountable advantage to Pujols. He's the best player in the game, hands down. He's having one of his best seasons. Does it matter that his team doesn't have a bullpen? That's not his fault at all. If anything, he's kept St. Louis in the race. The Mets can still be somwhere without Delgado because they have Reyes, Beltran, and Wright. If Pujols had three guys like that around him, he'd be even better than he is now.

Craig Grebeck
09-13-2008, 02:17 PM
St. Louis is in 4th place. How valueable is he?

MVP, MVP MVP MVP. It stands for Most valueable player. How the hell can someone bethe most valueable player on a 4th place team?
Your logic is contradictory. The rest of his team is terrible, why is he responsible for them being in fourth place? He's having a Ted Williams-esque season, Delgado has been TERRIBLE for the majority of this season. What's so tough about this?

scarsofthumper
09-13-2008, 11:41 PM
Delgado for sure

DSpivack
09-14-2008, 12:52 AM
Delgado for sure

Why?

scarsofthumper
09-14-2008, 01:04 AM
Why?
Look at the standings. Pujols hasn't made MVP worthy contributions to the Cardinals.

Honestly though, with the way this season has been, it could go to anyone. Hell, Sabathia could surprise everyone and get it, especially considering the Cy Young is Tim Lincecum's to lose.

kgork
09-14-2008, 01:17 AM
The MVP award stands for most valueable player not best player. In my opinion Manny Ramirez has been more valueable to the Dodgers than Pujols to the Cardinals. The evidence is that before he got there they were in 2nd place and under .500. Since they are over .500 and in 1st place. Factor in the 40 games he's been there he has 14 hrs, 40 RBI's and hitting damn near .400.

Then why not Andre Ethier? Last 30 days:

Manny: .362/.467/.745
Ethier: .396/.462/.802

The answer to this question is Albert Pujols, it's not close.

Vernam
09-14-2008, 01:23 AM
Who does everyone think should be the NL MVP?End of story: Fukodome.

Vernam

chisoxfanatic
09-14-2008, 01:40 AM
Look at the standings. Pujols hasn't made MVP worthy contributions to the Cardinals.

Exactly who would you replace Pujols with that would suddenly make that team world-beaters given their injury problems this year? NOBODY would be able to help the Cardinals to the point of them actually contending this year given the injury problems that team had! Throw TCQ, Manny, or Delgado on that team, and they STILL wouldn't have contended. It's the injuries, not Pujols' fault! Pujols has always been MVP quality.

Fenway
09-14-2008, 09:22 AM
He may only play 58 games for LA but Manny has transformed the Dodgers from a .500 team to one that can win the pennant. His LA numbers are off the charts.

If Boston does win the pennant the last team I want to see at Fenway is Los Angeles. Manny, Nomar and Lowe would all love to say Hi to Theo. Oh and wouldn't Joe Torre like some revenge as well.

Can you imagine the fallout in Yankeeland if Torre won the World Series?????

Craig Grebeck
09-14-2008, 10:43 AM
Look at the standings. Pujols hasn't made MVP worthy contributions to the Cardinals.

Honestly though, with the way this season has been, it could go to anyone. Hell, Sabathia could surprise everyone and get it, especially considering the Cy Young is Tim Lincecum's to lose.
How could you possibly argue that Carlos Delgado has been more valuable than Albert Pujols?

DSpivack
09-14-2008, 10:54 AM
Look at the standings. Pujols hasn't made MVP worthy contributions to the Cardinals.

Honestly though, with the way this season has been, it could go to anyone. Hell, Sabathia could surprise everyone and get it, especially considering the Cy Young is Tim Lincecum's to lose.

Well, if you go by the standings argument, then a Cub should win the MVP award, not a Met. Plus, how is Delgado even the MVP of his team and not Wright? Delgado was struggling early on in the year, and the Mets were, as well. Pujols has been at the top of his game the whole season long. Even if you are going to go by standings, why not pick the player who is most valuable to his team, i.e. who has a bigger influence on as many games and provides his team with the most amount of victories?

Statheads have a stat called win shares. I'm not sure of the numbers behind and don't really care, but the idea is how many wins a player is worth to his team. I just don't see how you can possibly say Carlos Delgado is worth more to the Mets than Pujols to the Cardinals. Delgado isn't the best hitter on his team, heck, he might not even be the 2nd best hitter on his team. The Cardinals are nothing without Pujols. If Delgado hadn't been struggling the first couple months of the year, the Mets might have more than a 2.5 game lead.

turners56
09-14-2008, 11:22 AM
Look at the standings. Pujols hasn't made MVP worthy contributions to the Cardinals.

Honestly though, with the way this season has been, it could go to anyone. Hell, Sabathia could surprise everyone and get it, especially considering the Cy Young is Tim Lincecum's to lose.

OMFG, are you kidding me?

An OPS over 1.000 isn't a big enough contribution? What does he need to do? Hit 100 home runs for anybody to realize that he's having a better season than anybody in baseball?

Once again, stick Pujols on any first place team and he will make them better. Why does his team have to dictate what he should win? It's not like the Cardinals are in last place, they've contended for most of the season.

RockyMtnSoxFan
09-16-2008, 11:05 AM
If Boston does win the pennant the last team I want to see at Fenway is Los Angeles. Manny, Nomar and Lowe would all love to say Hi to Theo. Oh and wouldn't Joe Torre like some revenge as well.

Can you imagine the fallout in Yankeeland if Torre won the World Series?????

I would actually like that scenario. Although I hate Manny and the Dodgers, I would like to see them shove it in the faces of the Red Sox, and the Yankees too.

Back to the debate, although Manny has had a good month and a half, his season stats haven't been better than Pujols. Also, MVP isn't the full title of the award--it's called the National League MVP. Manny has put up some big numbers with LA, but his total contribution is not the same as what Pujols has done to keep the injured and depleted Cardinals in contention until the final months of the season.

I mentioned it before, but Manny is not the reason the Dodgers have been winning lately. Since his arrival, they have won five games in which the opposition scored four or more runs (out of 24 wins total). The pitching staff has allowed fewer than three runs in 17 games (out of 42 games total). So although they have been scoring a lot lately, they would probably be winning even without Manny. However, during their eight game losing streak, the hitters were largely to blame, as they scored only 15 runs. If Manny were such a difference maker, he would have had more of an impact in some of those one-run losses.

Basically, you can't attribute to Manny enough of LA's success in the last one and a half months to warrant saying that he is the Most Valuable Player in the National League.

hellview
09-16-2008, 11:12 AM
Delgado for sure

Yeah for sure...oh wait he's not even the most vaulable player on his team.

areilly
09-16-2008, 12:53 PM
Can you imagine the fallout in Yankeeland if Torre won the World Series?????

To be honest, I try not to think too much about what goes on in New York. LA or Boston either, for that matter. :redneck

Craig Grebeck
09-16-2008, 01:04 PM
So...if Manny is so valuable, why have the Red Sox been so much better offensively without him?

daveeym
09-16-2008, 01:16 PM
Well it looks like the Mets are going to choke it away again anyway. Delgado - He Gawn.

palehozenychicty
09-16-2008, 02:02 PM
Well it looks like the Mets' bullpen is going to choke it away again anyway. Delgado - He Gawn.


Had to make that edit. Their bullpen has lost close to thirty games this year with a lead in the 8th or 9th inning. Thirty! :o:

They were really bad last year as well. Now they don't have Wags, Heilman is mentally torched, Ayala is awful, Feliciano, Sanchez... you get the picture.

The Sox pen has been bad recently, but the Mets are in a league of their own with bullpen ineptitude.

If Delgado can get them in with that pen, then he must be considered.

Craig Grebeck
09-16-2008, 02:09 PM
Had to make that edit. Their bullpen has lost close to thirty games this year with a lead in the 8th or 9th inning. Thirty! :o:

They were really bad last year as well. Now they don't have Wags, Heilman is mentally torched, Ayala is awful, Feliciano, Sanchez... you get the picture.

The Sox pen has been bad recently, but the Mets are in a league of their own with bullpen ineptitude.

If Delgado can get them in with that pen, then he must be considered.
It would be an absolute sham.

palehozenychicty
09-16-2008, 02:11 PM
It would be an absolute sham.

I don't think he'll win cause his stats aren't that good. But he'll be considered if he can carry them in.

Lundind1
09-16-2008, 02:17 PM
Pujols, because he has almost carried this team with an injury. Nobody thought they'd be in it this late in the season. Kudos.

Craig Grebeck
09-16-2008, 03:24 PM
I don't think he'll win cause his stats aren't that good. But he'll be considered if he can carry them in.
He hasn't carried them in -- there's PLENTY of talent on that roster.

palehozenychicty
09-16-2008, 03:56 PM
He hasn't carried them in -- there's PLENTY of talent on that roster.

True, they have talent, but Delgado has been the most consistent player for them in the second half. Reyes and Wright have the numbers, but they haven't impacted as many games as Delgado. Beltran has played better, but he's regressed this year. It's a moot point, as Delgado doesn't have the stats anyway to win.

hellview
09-16-2008, 04:04 PM
True, they have talent, but Delgado has been the most consistent player for them in the second half.

Post All-Star Break Numbers

Wright-.327/.399/.602 1.001 OPS
Delgado-.295/.380/.610 .990 OPS

hellview
09-16-2008, 04:06 PM
If Delgado can get them in with that pen, then he must be considered.

Even though he hasn't been th ebest player on his team and he hasn't even been the best player on the Mets in the second half.

I don't get where this Deldago love is coming from...

CHISOXFAN13
09-16-2008, 05:02 PM
Even though he hasn't been th ebest player on his team and he hasn't even been the best player on the Mets in the second half.

I don't get where this Deldago love is coming from...

Thank You. I've been a big supporter of Wright. He's the best player on that team. Period.