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LJS1993
09-05-2008, 11:31 PM
Well guys, I decided to make this thread to both honor Ken Griffey Jr. and to question the overall disrespect the man recieves from many fans around the country.
To me Griffey could possibly be among the top five best all around players to play the game of baseball. During the 90's Griffey dominated the game like none other besides Barry Bonds. I recall the constant arguments my cousins and I would get in over who was better. The big question was Bonds or Griffey? I remember arguing for Griffey due the overall balance of his game. Griffey possessed the sweetest swing in the game, the epitome of balance from start to finish all the way through the zone. His defense was the standard for the position. It was common sight seeing Griffey crashing into walls, making over the should catches, and overall playing the oufield with a reckless abandon that seemed missing from others at the position. Yes, make no mistake, he was the man of the 90's as far as I'm concerned. His ability to make the game look so easy caused envy within some, overall dislike from a few, and a sense of love and admiration from many. Man, the memories I have as a young man watching Griffey will live with me forever.
Now on the negative and overall disrespect he has been given rangin from mullet head Jeff Brantley to his own "home" fans alike. It pains me to read articles disrespecting Griffey. Words such as "slow" and "fat" have been used by the very fans who should be hoping for him to do his best. Yes, the man has slowed down as injuries, illness and time have taken it's toll on "The Kid", as it will on us all eventually. I have read comments by individuals who could only dream they had one little minisucle percent of the talent Griffey possessed during his prime. Heck, those same individuals wish they could hit 30 home runs at any point in their lives, let alone in their late 30's. Comments such as "Griffey is done" and "He never was that good" have been spouted on many discussion forums and "blogs" alike. Blogs and articles from individuals who hide their disrespect and dislike for the man behind terms such as "calling the truth", or "holding the game to high standards". I guess the fact that the man is among an elite group of players to surpass the 600 mark means absolutely nothing. I guess the fact that this man still possesses a dangerous bat despite having pleurisy, a disorder which causes painful breating along with other side effects, a hamstring held onto his bone with titanium screws, not to mention the overall effects of playing so hard for so long, means absolutely nothing. In fact, it means the man should be disrespected whenever the chance arises? I think not. Yes I'm a major Griffey fan, always have been and always will be. No, he's not "The Kid" anymore and will no longer be seen crashing into walls and making over the shoulder catches on a regular basis. But, what Griffey can be called is a true legend who deserves the respect and admiration of true baseball fans. If he catches fire could he be the link the White Sox need to make a big run? I believe he is and will catch. And you never know, he just might make an over the shoulder catch thus showing a glimpse of what many fans missed seeing during the 90's. Go Griffey and go WHITE SOX!!!!!!!!

hi im skot
09-05-2008, 11:55 PM
I have no idea what your post says, but 99% of knowledgeable baseball fans know that Griffey is something special.

SpartanSoxFan
09-05-2008, 11:57 PM
First of all, :welcome:

Secondly, I know there are Ken Griffey haters out there, many of whom are fans of our White Sox. But I'd have to say that the overwhelming majority of INTELLIGENT baseball fans out there respect and admire Ken Griffey's career accomplishment. Who really cares what moronic scrubs like Jeff Brantley have to say about him? Is Jeff Brantley going to be enshrined in Cooperstown? Hell No! Junior is a sure-fire first ballot HOF candidate especially in lieu of doing things the right way in the midst of the steroid era of baseball. While I myself am frustrated with Junior in his limited time here, I keep things in perspective knowing he is in the twilight of his career and whatever he can add to the table is a bonus at this point. He isn't the same guy who made hitting 45-50 HRs look effortless.

Konerko05
09-06-2008, 12:00 AM
Anyone who disrespects Griffey's career is a complete moron.

Do we really need a thread discussing these people?

thomas35forever
09-06-2008, 12:03 AM
It's 'cause he plays for the Sox! Everyone who puts on a Sox uniform is disrespected no matter what!

MISoxfan
09-06-2008, 12:18 AM
Negative 50 points for mentioning the 90's and then only Bonds and Griffey.

guillen4life13
09-06-2008, 12:41 AM
Negative 50 points for mentioning the 90's and then only Bonds and Griffey.

A certain number 35 was around also...

LJS1993
09-06-2008, 01:11 AM
A certain number 35 was around also...

Oh yes, Frank Thomas. I loved his game for sure. He was the epitome of a big man with a beautiful stroke who also did things the right way. However this thread is about Griffey and the disrespect he receives by man, not all, but by many fans.
I was very sad to see Thomas go, but I'm man enough to admit that I will shed a tear when Griffey's time is up.

doublem23
09-06-2008, 01:14 AM
I was very sad to see Thomas go, but I'm man enough to admit that I will shed a tear when Griffey's time is up.

Are you not a Sox fan, because I think most of us are going to be sad when Frank finally hangs 'em up.

Jeckle2000
09-06-2008, 01:31 AM
While I still don't see the point of the trade (as he is at the tail end of his career and really his better days are behind him) and I think that he is for all intents and purposes done that doesn't mean I don't respect what he did in his career or that I don't think he deserves to be a 1st ballot hall of famer. I'm just realistic and I know that he's a shadow of what he was in the late nineties...

LJS1993
09-06-2008, 01:38 AM
Are you not a Sox fan, because I think most of us are going to be sad when Frank finally hangs 'em up.

I'm going to be very sad for sure. However for some reason Griffey holds a much larger place in my heart.

Nellie_Fox
09-06-2008, 01:40 AM
I'm going to be very sad for sure. However for some reason Griffey holds a much larger place in my heart.That is very bizarre for a Sox fan. Three posts, and all about Junior.

getonbckthr
09-06-2008, 07:25 AM
I realize this new poster could just be a troll of some sort but i'm not gonna bury him for picking Griffey over Thomas. However to say Griffey has been disrespected is a stretch. The only negatives i've seen about Griffey is by the lunatics in Seattle that sent death threats hen he left for Cincy. As a kid in the 90's sure we had Frank Thomas and Ventura on the southside and Ryno, Sosa and Grace on the Cubs, but my favorite player was Griffey.

Billy Ashley
09-06-2008, 07:48 AM
Ken Griffey Jr was the most loved player of the 1990's. He was voted best player of the 1990's in 2000 (an award that frankly should have gone to Bonds). He's an inner circle hall of famer who had it not been for injuries likely would have been among the top 5 players to ever play.

Most the media gushes about his career (As they should). He was a fantastic player, however at this point he's a barely acceptable DH. I love the guy, traded for him in all my Sega baseball games of my youth; but at this point in his career he's not much better than Carl Everett (at least he believes in dinosaurs)/

As far as the Frank Thomas vs Ken Griffey Jr debate: Thomas was the better hitter. Griffey was a comparable hitter and also an elite defensive outfielder, a good base runner and while not a good base stealer, not awful enough of swiping bags to totally ignore. He was a far better player (Not that Thomas doesn't deserve every bit of recognition he'll get when he's deservedly enshrined in the hall as one of the best 4 or 5 hitters since Ted Williams).

doublem23
09-06-2008, 08:19 AM
I'm going to be very sad for sure. However for some reason Griffey holds a much larger place in my heart.

Well, first, it's OK if you're not a Sox fan, at various times in this board's history we've had Red Sox, Cubs, Indians, Twins, and Tigers fans as part of our active members.

Next, Griffey, the Big Hurt, and any other clean slugger from this decade kind of did get a raw deal because people are so jaded about monster home run numbers now, their accomplishments get lost in the whole steroid era negativity. Hopefully in the near future, after a lot of this has past, we'll be able to look back on their careers and give them the proper heaps of praise they deserve.

LJS1993
09-06-2008, 09:04 AM
I realize this new poster could just be a troll of some sort but i'm not gonna bury him for picking Griffey over Thomas. However to say Griffey has been disrespected is a stretch. The only negatives i've seen about Griffey is by the lunatics in Seattle that sent death threats hen he left for Cincy. As a kid in the 90's sure we had Frank Thomas and Ventura on the southside and Ryno, Sosa and Grace on the Cubs, but my favorite player was Griffey.

A troll? Man, I know I'm new to this message board, but I've never heard a poster being called a troll because he chooses one long time legend over another. I really don't believe I'm stretching it too far when saying he has been disrespected. Perhaps as another poster said guys like Thomas and Griffey are getting the raw deal due to the steriod heads like Bonds, Sosa, and McGwire. Either way I see it as disrespecting the accomplishments of individuals who played the game the right way and treated the game like it should be treated, with reverance. Perhaps my definition of disrespect is incorrect. But mine are just one small baseball fans opinions, nothing else.

LJS1993
09-06-2008, 09:05 AM
Ken Griffey Jr was the most loved player of the 1990's. He was voted best player of the 1990's in 2000 (an award that frankly should have gone to Bonds). He's an inner circle hall of famer who had it not been for injuries likely would have been among the top 5 players to ever play.

Most the media gushes about his career (As they should). He was a fantastic player, however at this point he's a barely acceptable DH. I love the guy, traded for him in all my Sega baseball games of my youth; but at this point in his career he's not much better than Carl Everett (at least he believes in dinosaurs)/

As far as the Frank Thomas vs Ken Griffey Jr debate: Thomas was the better hitter. Griffey was a comparable hitter and also an elite defensive outfielder, a good base runner and while not a good base stealer, not awful enough of swiping bags to totally ignore. He was a far better player (Not that Thomas doesn't deserve every bit of recognition he'll get when he's deservedly enshrined in the hall as one of the best 4 or 5 hitters since Ted Williams).

Barely an acceptable DH? Just one year ago he put up some very good numbers in Cincy. I believe he can go on a very long time at the DH position.

LJS1993
09-06-2008, 09:10 AM
Oh and guys, before anyone admonishes me I'm more of a baseball fan then I am strictly a Sox fan. I'm a fan who is sick of the Yankees and absolutely tired of the Red Sox. I like the way the squad you guys have, especially Dye and Quentin, those guys can flat out play the game. Once you guys got Griffey, that sealed the deal for me. Like I said earlier, go White Sox.

Billy Ashley
09-06-2008, 09:15 AM
Barely an acceptable DH? Just one year ago he put up some very good numbers in Cincy. I believe he can go on a very long time at the DH position.

Yes a year ago in an inferior league he had an solid season. Not a great one, but a solid one. He also sucked pretty hard the year before that, so I'm not sure I get your point.

He's 38, been healthy and has been by in large not very good this season. I love Griffey, had a poster of him in my room as a child (and I've never been a mariners fan) but it's not unusual to see performances by players fall off a cliff as they near 40. Especially considering his injury history; he's not a good bet to do much of anything from here on out.

My only issue with the steroid era is that it has totally screwed up our perceptions of aging. We fans were spoiled by our past heroes hitting well into their 40's, but in reality: with out drugs, this is uncommon.

Red Barchetta
09-06-2008, 09:16 AM
Wow! :whiteflag:

I'm exhausted. That was one loooooooooooooooong paragraph.

Billy Ashley
09-06-2008, 09:20 AM
Oh and guys, before anyone admonishes me I'm more of a baseball fan then I am strictly a Sox fan. I'm a fan who is sick of the Yankees and absolutely tired of the Red Sox. I like the way the squad you guys have, especially Dye and Quentin, those guys can flat out play the game. Once you guys got Griffey, that sealed the deal for me. Like I said earlier, go White Sox.

They know how to play the game more than Damon, Pedrioa, Alex Rodriquez, Josh Beckett, Matsui, Drew, Riveria, Youkilis, Posada?

It's cool that you're sick of Boston and New York but the entire "Knows how to play the game the right way" shtick annoys me like no other. Given that one of Boston and New York have been in the play offs since the mid 1990s suggests that they might know something about the game as well.

I'd guess just about anyone playing in the majors has more god given abilities than all of us combined as well as a work ethic that allowed them to survive in the major leagues.

LJS1993
09-06-2008, 09:29 AM
They know how to play the game more than Damon, Pedrioa, Alex Rodriquez, Josh Beckett, Matsui, Drew, Riveria, Youkilis, Posada?

It's cool that you're sick of Boston and New York but the entire "Knows how to play the game the right way" shtick annoys me like no other. Given that one of Boston and New York have been in the play offs since the mid 1990s suggests that they might know something about the game as well.

I'd guess just about anyone playing in the majors has more god given abilities than all of us combined as well as a work ethic that allowed them to survive in the major leagues.

Did I ever state that they knew how to play the game better than those you mentioned above? No, I was merely making a comment strictly on those two guys, those being Dye and Quentin. I'm sick of the teams overall, not the individuals, except A-Rod, but that's for another time.
As for my shtick of "playing the game the right way", that applies to the guys who didn't resort to steroid usage or "the clear", or any other enhancer. So it's not a "shtick" and has nothing to do with my comments about being sick of the Yankees and Red Sox.

Billy Ashley
09-06-2008, 09:35 AM
Did I ever state that they knew how to play the game better than those you mentioned above? No, I was merely making a comment strictly on those two guys, those being Dye and Quentin. I'm sick of the teams overall, not the individuals, except A-Rod, but that's for another time.
As for my shtick of "playing the game the right way", that applies to the guys who didn't resort to steroid usage or "the clear", or any other enhancer. So it's not a "shtick" and has nothing to do with my comments about being sick of the Yankees and Red Sox.

Oh it is a shtick: Sports writers have been saying it for years. The reason: It's easy and connects well with the base of baseball fans. Those who like to watch games casually. There's nothing wrong with it; it's just not analysis.

How do you know Griffey never used uppers, or steroids? You don't. There's no way to know who used them and how often. That's what sucks about the steroid era in baseball. We know a small sampling of those who did it... but we'll never know for sure.

Back on topic though. How is he disrespected. It's almost universally accepted among the mediots that had he been luckier in regards to health he'd have broken Aaron's HR record. Fans still love him. Where's the hate.

He's an inner circle hall of famer. My only issue, is that as of right now- he's comparable to Carl Everett.

SoxandtheCityTee
09-06-2008, 09:41 AM
Welcome, LJS. The fact that you're sick of NYY and BOS does not mean that ESPN won't continue to talk about them incessantly :tongue:, but we hear you.

As others have said, you won't get much of an argument here on Griffey's career greatness. Let's hope he gives us a flash or two of the old brilliance this year to remind anyone who's forgotten or who missed those days. I'll bet Junior hopes that too.

LJS1993
09-06-2008, 09:49 AM
Oh it is a shtick: Sports writers have been saying it for years. The reason: It's easy and connects well with the base of baseball fans. Those who like to watch games casually. There's nothing wrong with it; it's just not analysis.

How do you know Griffey never used uppers, or steroids? You don't. There's no way to know who used them and how often. That's what sucks about the steroid era in baseball. We know a small sampling of those who did it... but we'll never know for sure.

Back on topic though. How is he disrespected. It's almost universally accepted among the mediots that had he been luckier in regards to health he'd have broken Aaron's HR record. Fans still love him. Where's the hate.

He's an inner circle hall of famer. My only issue, is that as of right now- he's comparable to Carl Everett.

Well to me, the term is far more then connecting with fans and can really care less if it's being turned into a "shtick". To me it represents the men who uphold baseball with the type of honor and dignity which it should be given. That means not utilizing steriods of any type in order to gain a certain edge on the competition. It means playing hard and respecting your opponent by playing clean.
As for Griffey using roids, well there were no tests during that time but I can tell you that as an individual that participates in a sport where roids is prevalent, that being sport grappling, Griffey was not using the stuff.
To address the Carl Everett comparison, well, the man needs to find the stroke and I believe he will. Don't count him out man.

LJS1993
09-06-2008, 09:53 AM
Welcome, LJS. The fact that you're sick of NYY and BOS does not mean that ESPN won't continue to talk about them incessantly :tongue:, but we hear you.

As others have said, you won't get much of an argument here on Griffey's career greatness. Let's hope he gives us a flash or two of the old brilliance this year to remind anyone who's forgotten or who missed those days. I'll bet Junior hopes that too.

Thanks for the welcome. :D: I really wish the Yankees and Red Sox would go away. But you're right, ESPN will do whatever it takes to keep them as the main story. And yes, as you can tell I'm a huge Griffey fan who is really pulling for him to come thru for the Sox.

Billy Ashley
09-06-2008, 10:09 AM
Well to me, the term is far more then connecting with fans and can really care less if it's being turned into a "shtick". To me it represents the men who uphold baseball with the type of honor and dignity which it should be given. That means not utilizing steriods of any type in order to gain a certain edge on the competition. It means playing hard and respecting your opponent by playing clean.
As for Griffey using roids, well there were no tests during that time but I can tell you that as an individual that participates in a sport where roids is prevalent, that being sport grappling, Griffey was not using the stuff.
To address the Carl Everett comparison, well, the man needs to find the stroke and I believe he will. Don't count him out man.

It is a shtick because it's what old sports reporters do to sell papers. They prey on our lack of analysis. If Dustin Pedrioa wins the MVP this year, it won't be because he was the best player in the AL (that would be Grady Sizemore). It won't be because one can make a real argument that given his position, his above average defense and his positioning at difficult position to fill makes him tremendously valuable and likely more valuable statistically than any other player on a play off club (assuming Quentin is done for the year, and even if he weren't it'd be a fun debate) but rather because he's short and not talented (he is) and plays the game the right way (He's a bit of a jerk). How freaking stupid is that? This guy may command millions more in salary because of an MVP award he won when he becomes a free agent, on the strength of an argument that is completely subjective with no basis in analysis.

As far as the steroids stuff if you choose to believe that your idols never used that's fine. I'm not arguing they did. I'm just stating that we'll never know for sure. Hell, there have been rumors of Willie Mays using uppers forever. We don't know about that for sure either.

If we we're really honest with ourselves as a society about the prevalence of PEDs (or most other social ills) we'd be able to cut back on them greatly. Unfortunately as a society we like to kill those stupid enough to get caught, even though most reports have the numbers of people using a lot higher than the Mitchell report. Something George Mitchell stated in plain English as he released it. We'll never know for certain who used and who didn't.

LJS1993
09-06-2008, 11:27 AM
It is a shtick because it's what old sports reporters do to sell papers. They prey on our lack of analysis. If Dustin Pedrioa wins the MVP this year, it won't be because he was the best player in the AL (that would be Grady Sizemore). It won't be because one can make a real argument that given his position, his above average defense and his positioning at difficult position to fill makes him tremendously valuable and likely more valuable statistically than any other player on a play off club (assuming Quentin is done for the year, and even if he weren't it'd be a fun debate) but rather because he's short and not talented (he is) and plays the game the right way (He's a bit of a jerk). How freaking stupid is that? This guy may command millions more in salary because of an MVP award he won when he becomes a free agent, on the strength of an argument that is completely subjective with no basis in analysis.

As far as the steroids stuff if you choose to believe that your idols never used that's fine. I'm not arguing they did. I'm just stating that we'll never know for sure. Hell, there have been rumors of Willie Mays using uppers forever. We don't know about that for sure either.

If we we're really honest with ourselves as a society about the prevalence of PEDs (or most other social ills) we'd be able to cut back on them greatly. Unfortunately as a society we like to kill those stupid enough to get caught, even though most reports have the numbers of people using a lot higher than the Mitchell report. Something George Mitchell stated in plain English as he released it. We'll never know for certain who used and who didn't.

Man, you're taking this way beyond the scope of what the term "playing the game the right way" means within my definition. Again, I can honestly care less about who wins the MVP award or how reporters have twisted the term to excuse their ridiculous opinions. To me, in my definition of the term as I stated above, it means the guys who play the game with dignity, respect, honor, and with overall good character. No not media darlings either, but guys who compete, guys who are team players, guys who truly love the game and uphold the values behind it. So you have your definition, I have mine.
As for roids, I agree, we'll never know for certain. However I disagree that being more realistic would lead to less usage of performance enhancers. Heck, I have heard fans who flat out state they want performance enhancers given to everyone in order to one, make the playing field equal again, and two, because they love the excitement that it brings. To me that's a travesty which is why I am so soured on the game these days. Our society loves sensationalism these days, and Bonds and A-Rod, two guys who I believe DO NOT PLAY THE GAME THE RIGHT WAY, sorry for the shtick, are the reason why baseball is corrupt and in decline.
Well I have ranted enough. Trust me guys, I usually don't have this much to say. It's just that I feel very passionate about the game and those who I feel play it "the right way". Again, sorry for using the old shtick.:rolleyes:

Billy Ashley
09-06-2008, 11:41 AM
Man, I hate hijacking but the reason why more openness would help:

Bringing as much fact into light will allow us to better understand what the prevalence of PED usage has been in the Major Leagues. The fact that people go ape@#%^ over Bonds, Clemens, Giambi, Sosa (who to my knowledge has never even been proven to use the stuff), Gange, Palmerio and so on is just what pushes this stuff deeper into the shadows.

If we admit that there is a problem and players as well as MLB come out and say, we screwed up, but here are the reasons why. And then commit to cleaning up the game, perhaps we'll have fewer minor leaguers getting busted and fewer players bending the rules at the top.

Also what does Alex Rodriquez do that removes honor from the game? Is it that he slapped the ball out of a pitcher's hand in a play off game? Or is it that he is a primaddona. The latter, just about everyone in the game qualifies.

areilly
09-06-2008, 11:43 AM
I don't see how stating things that are true about Griffey (his age and physical condition) take anything away from the things he's accomplished. He's not the player he was at 25, and even he knows it.

TomBradley72
09-06-2008, 12:07 PM
I don't see how stating things that are true about Griffey (his age and physical condition) take anything away from the things he's accomplished. He's not the player he was at 25, and even he knows it.

Well said. He's a very average hitter now, and significantly below average on defense and on the basepaths.

forrestg
09-06-2008, 12:18 PM
I love griffey when a flyball comes right to him. Griffey and Thome should just be considered dhs.. We have 2 of the best.. Maybe we haven't seen this year what Griffey can really when he get hot.. He is a patient hitter. I hope we can cover for him defensively.

MetroPD
09-06-2008, 07:40 PM
I have no idea what your post says, but 99% of knowledgeable baseball fans know that Griffey is something special.

Plus one. The whole original thread had me:scratch:. Griffey was a fantastic ballplayer, he will be remembered as one of the very best, injuries and all.

LJS1993
09-06-2008, 07:56 PM
Plus one. The whole original thread had me:scratch:. Griffey was a fantastic ballplayer, he will be remembered as one of the very best, injuries and all.

Was the thread that difficult to understand?

MetroPD
09-06-2008, 10:07 PM
Was the thread that difficult to understand?
When you start talking about lack of respect for Griffey, yeah that has my head scratching. If you're old enough to remember Jr with the Mariners, you'd wonder the same thing.

turners56
09-06-2008, 10:10 PM
Griff can still hit. But anything in the gap scares the crap out of me when he plays D. He also looks like he's limping when he runs.

LJS1993
09-06-2008, 10:27 PM
When you start talking about lack of respect for Griffey, yeah that has my head scratching. If you're old enough to remember Jr with the Mariners, you'd wonder the same thing.

Metro, that's my point. I'm a 90's generation ex ball player who is a major Griffey fan. I guess you guys are real fans because I have heard a lot of disrespect for the man. Man, I have some great memories as you must also.

2906
09-06-2008, 10:34 PM
And I keep seeing misguided comments on "why don't they play Griffey in LF instead of CF" all over the internet.

You do not want to put a player, especially a veteran player, out of his comfort level, especially in a pennant race. The ball comes off the bat way differently, in terms of angle, in LF vs. CF or RF. People seem to think he'd be better off in LF because of supposed "range" factors.

He is a below average OF at this point in his career, whether it's CF or RF. There is zero reason to put him in LF where he'd have to deal with a big adjustment, especially in a pennant race.

Griffey has played 3 career games in LF. It's not a good idea to stick him in LF now.

LJS1993
09-06-2008, 10:42 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200804232574147&c_id=cws

Harold sums it up.

VA_GoGoSox
09-06-2008, 11:56 PM
Well, first, it's OK if you're not a Sox fan, at various times in this board's history we've had Red Sox, Cubs, Indians, Twins, and Tigers fans as part of our active members.

Next, Griffey, the Big Hurt, and any other clean slugger from this decade kind of did get a raw deal because people are so jaded about monster home run numbers now, their accomplishments get lost in the whole steroid era negativity. Hopefully in the near future, after a lot of this has past, we'll be able to look back on their careers and give them the proper heaps of praise they deserve.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again--time will be extremely kind to these guys. 20 years from now the greatest hitters of this generation will be remembered fondly--Thomas, Griffey, Gwynn.

And those who were the "best" (Bonds, Sosa, McGwire) will be vilified. And rightly so.

I cannot wait for the day I get to make my first trip to Cooperstown and see the Big Hurt speak.

SOX ADDICT '73
09-07-2008, 12:51 AM
When you start talking about lack of respect for Griffey, yeah that has my head scratching. If you're old enough to remember Jr with the Mariners, you'd wonder the same thing.
When Griffey was approaching the 600 HR mark, one of his teammates (Adam Dunn?) publicly complained that Jr. was being disrespected by the lack of media and fan enthusiasm for the feat. Have we been de-sensitized by the steroid-era? Did Griffey take too long (65 games) to get there this season, after starting the year with 593?

For me, I think his "quest for 600" was actually more of a sad reminder about what might have been, if not for his series of devastating injuries. All the while, I kept thinking to myself, "Yeah, but it should be 700..."

LJS1993
09-07-2008, 01:39 AM
Well said. He's a very average hitter now, and significantly below average on defense and on the basepaths.

Yes, sure, an average hitter. :rolleyes:

Konerko05
09-07-2008, 01:57 AM
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200804232574147&c_id=cws

Harold sums it up.

You're on a White Sox message board. "Harold" is not Harold Reynolds.

BleacherBandit
09-07-2008, 02:03 AM
You're on a White Sox message board. "Harold" is not Harold Reynolds.

Way too many picky people on these forums...:tongue:

Nellie_Fox
09-07-2008, 02:16 AM
You're on a White Sox message board. "Harold" is not Harold Reynolds.

Way too many picky people on these forums...:tongue:Sorry, gotta agree; here, "Harold" is Baines, and Baines only. If you are going to reference any other "Harold," define your terms.

TDog
09-07-2008, 02:34 AM
Sorry, gotta agree; here, "Harold" is Baines, and Baines only. If you are going to reference any other "Harold," define your terms.

I clicked on the length just to hear Harold Baines talk, but I was disappointed. Of course, Harold Baines wouldn't have put it a lot more succinctly and not taken up so much of my time.

Funny thing about the Thomas-Griffey comparisons, justifiable because they were the best American League hitters in the 1990s, is that little Joey Cora hit in front of them both.

TornLabrum
09-07-2008, 07:21 AM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again--time will be extremely kind to these guys. 20 years from now the greatest hitters of this generation will be remembered fondly--Thomas, Griffey, Gwynn.

And those who were the "best" (Bonds, Sosa, McGwire) will be vilified. And rightly so.

I cannot wait for the day I get to make my first trip to Cooperstown and see the Big Hurt speak.

Knowing Frank, he'll put his foot in his mouth.

LJS1993
09-07-2008, 09:17 AM
Way too many picky people on these forums...:tongue:

No kidding man, sheesh. But man since these guys mentioned the name Harold (NOT REYNOLDS) Baines, did he have a sweet swing himself.

areilly
09-07-2008, 10:51 AM
Metro, that's my point. I'm a 90's generation ex ball player who is a major Griffey fan. I guess you guys are real fans because I have heard a lot of disrespect for the man. Man, I have some great memories as you must also.

Again, I think this is just a matter of perception. Any detrimental remark I've ever heard about Griffey has always been in the context of "he's not as good as he used to be" and "in his prime he was one the best to ever play the game."

Griffey is slower now. He's heavier. He's injury-prone. He doesn't have the reflexes and timing in the batter's box he once had. He's not a threat on the basepaths. His defense has taken giant leaps backward. These are not made-up insults but irrefutable facts.

Nice guy? Seems like it. Loves the game? You bet. But to ignore the player Griffey is now and only see him through the prism of things he was doing ten years ago seems like a more disrespectful act than to try to cling to the idea that he still has whatever he had in 1995 working for him.

LJS1993
09-07-2008, 11:01 AM
Again, I think this is just a matter of perception. Any detrimental remark I've ever heard about Griffey has always been in the context of "he's not as good as he used to be" and "in his prime he was one the best to ever play the game."

Griffey is slower now. He's heavier. He's injury-prone. He doesn't have the reflexes and timing in the batter's box he once had. He's not a threat on the basepaths. His defense has taken giant leaps backward. These are not made-up insults but irrefutable facts.

Nice guy? Seems like it. Loves the game? You bet. But to ignore the player Griffey is now and only see him through the prism of things he was doing ten years ago seems like a more disrespectful act than to try to cling to the idea that he still has whatever he had in 1995 working for him.

Oh, I concur. However some individuals, who I suspect never saw him in the 90's perhaps, have completely ignored the player he was in his prime. No, he's not the same Griffey but to say he's an average hitter, as some have stated on this board, lazy and without work ethic, as I have read on other sites, only serves to disrespect both his current abilities and what the man has done in his past. Again, this thread wasn't meant to come off as accusatory in nature. No, I was merely stating my opinions on what I have read and heard on other sites in addition with a few disparaging remarks I've seen on this site.
In finale, I agree his skills have decreased. However I come from the belief that you still should respect the individual by not making disparaging remarks about the current and not discounting his accomplishments of the past.

downstairs
09-07-2008, 11:18 AM
Ok, there will always be someone who disrespects someone else... but overall why do you think Junior is disrespected? I think people rightly question his abilities today at his age, but that's fair for every player that has ever played.

He's been an automatic HOF'er for a decade now.